The 2,000 acres targeted in “Operation Southern Sweep” may be seized by the federal government, according to the North Coast Journal. Check the hard copy for full details.
The Humboldt Herald
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July 2, 2008 at 12:04 pm
Maybe the feds will turn around and lease the land to Charles Hurwitz, so that completely legal old growth harvests can replace those nefarious pot gardens. That way the feds can finance even more raids and more takeovers.
July 2, 2008 at 12:04 pm
That’s no surprise there. The FBI isn’t called in to raid Humboldt County grow sites, that’s the DEA’s job and the Feds aren’t going to send in more than 400 agents to pull up fewer plants than the Sheriff’s Department pulls up during a busy weekend of executing search warrants. This isn’t about pot, it’s about the IRS and shady business dealings fueled by marijuana money.
July 2, 2008 at 12:30 pm
Conspiracy and tax fraud.
July 2, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Get used to it. The tides have turned. Do the crime, lose the land.
And no corrupt DA can help you either.
THANK YOU FEDS!
July 2, 2008 at 1:29 pm
You think Barnum Timber left old growth on its timberlands before selling it? Excuse me while I die laughing.
July 2, 2008 at 2:19 pm
Get used to it. The tides have turned.
People are standing up to fascism.
INDEPENDENCE FOR CALIFORNIA!
July 2, 2008 at 2:20 pm
If it is seized, I wonder how they will deal with the unpermitted buildings, roads, and other “improvements”? Likely there are also trash dumps and contamination too.
Seized property is usually auctioned to the public “as-is”, unless the Government has a public use for it. I’d wager whoever bids on this property will be thinking “subdivision”, just like the current owner did.
I wonder if this property now has value for timber production. In the Maxaam bankruptcy, the SCOPAC property average value is being argued as $2000-$3600 per acre. Is there a way to find out how much “Lost Paradise” paid Barnum for this property?
July 2, 2008 at 2:22 pm
Why wasn’t this reported in the Times-Standard?
July 2, 2008 at 3:17 pm
We are a people governed by laws, the people paid to enforce do their job and now their fascists. Who cares what they paid for the land. Barnum cut the old growth, it was his land, if he did it legally again so what, they owned it not you. No tides have turned, those of use who are against fascism still are against it. Just now it comes from the left, its the new progey bullshit.
July 2, 2008 at 3:39 pm
Well said.
July 2, 2008 at 3:55 pm
Tyrants can be either right or left, but fascism is an inherently right wing evil. Words have meaning. Using them incorrectly doesn’t change their meaning.
July 2, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Fascism is the merging of government and business, usually with the backing of military/police, to establish and/or secure corporate hegemony over markets, jurisdictions and elected bodies. Fascism is usually legal, as it was in Germany and Italy during World War II.
That said, most of Barnum’s (and Maxxam’s and Russ’s and Simpson’s and GP’s and LP’s) logging after 1975 was not legal because it violated the state Forest Practices Act and the California Environmental Quality Act. In 1989 the California Attorney General’s office stopped representing CDF because the agency was routinely approving illegal timber harvest plans. They still do. Were just CEQA enforced, not to mention the Clean Water Act and Endangered Species Act, among other laws, the major clear-cutters could not operate.
July 2, 2008 at 4:04 pm
Yep, the value of land is not a legal matter per se, but has everything to do with opportunity and perogative.
Land transfer fraud occured extensively in Humboldt, within recent memory. Some of the folks adept at fraud are still among us. My concern is that the land doesn’t become a “sacrifice zone” simply because it was formerly used illegally. The buyer shouldn’t benefit from the old owner’s illegal modificatons to change its use.
July 2, 2008 at 4:07 pm
The majority of Humboldt County residents believe that cultivating marijuana for profit is legitimate and should be legal. Roger Rodoni spoke for them. Therefore, I believe the federal government and even Sacramento should respect that and let us govern our county according to our ethics.
July 2, 2008 at 4:08 pm
I wonder if Barnum knew of their illegal plans for the land when he sold it to them. If he did, wouldn’t that make him a conspirator as well?
July 2, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Rodoni’s change of heart and position on pot should not be lost to history,as a matter of fact his reincarnation as pot advocate even if sincere was a bell ringer for the Fortuna timber crowd.Roger knew that to be re-elected he needed to move away from the Palco gang . He recognized that his district was turning ‘Greener’ everyday.I think the final straw was the beat down that Worth Dikeman took.Elected representatives should do just that”represent” and give RR credit for recognizing that the voters of his district demanded a weed-friendly Supervisor .Calling for legalization was both pro weed & anti criminal grower at the same time.The politics of the pot mess does make for strange bedfellows.
July 2, 2008 at 6:56 pm
“Tyrants can be either right or left, but fascism is an inherently right wing evil. “.
My own observation has been that lefties are much more prone to fascism than right wingers. At least some right wingers in government will say that government might not have a place in deciding some issues. The same can’t be said of many lefties.
July 2, 2008 at 6:58 pm
The People of this state voted for its name to be pronounced CAW-LEE-PHONE-EE-AH. Get used to it.
July 2, 2008 at 7:08 pm
I spent all that money buying Bureau Agent Cookies, and now they may have seized land I can buy? I know I should have waited!
-boy
July 2, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Obviously you don’t know the definition of fascism, Fred. Calling just any tyrant a fascist is incorrect. Calling Islamic extremists living in caves fascists is the most bizarre misuse of all. The royal dictators in our ally countries like Saudi Arabia would more closely fit the definition.
July 2, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Fascism and neofascism: Fascism is an especially virulent form of far-right populism. Fascism glorifies national, racial, or cultural unity and collective rebirth while seeking to purge imagined enemies, and attacks both revolutionary movements and liberal pluralism in favor of militarized, totalitarian mass politics. Fascism first crystallized in Europe in response to the Bolshevik Revolution and the devastation of World War I, and then spread to other parts of the world. If it is a post-WWII occurrence it should be called neofascist or neofascism unless it solely involves participants in older movements. Neofascists reinterpret fascist ideology and strategy in various ways to fit new circumstances.
July 2, 2008 at 7:23 pm
When the Railroad used to cut its own Redwood trees near Founders Grove, funny things often happened. If the logging crew happened to see some nice-looking trees on somebody else’s property, they’d cut those trees down, too.
The way people talk these days, everybody in Humboldt County used to love the railroad.
That’s what some people call “historical revisionism.” I call it “a crock.”
July 2, 2008 at 8:13 pm
Specious generalizations are hardly persuasive Anon. You’re leaping over the tracks for a conclusion that isn’t there…unless you’ve had a chat with “everybody in Humboldt County.”
But, if your urn is sufficiently Grecian, it can sometimes get away with being a crock of…….well you surely know the rest.
July 2, 2008 at 8:27 pm
Jane, your political education is shit. You still believe that the political spectum is a straight line with a center and a right and left tangent. This is high school political science. The spectum is much like a sphere so the future you travel in either direction the closer you get to the opposite polarity. Thus facism and communism have much more in common than simple conservatives/liberals.
As far as purging imaginary enemies, my god look at all the trash you all spout about neocons, Rob A, Jill giest, Jane, and anyone else that does not fit into your progey bullshit. Who is the facist in reality.
July 2, 2008 at 9:21 pm
It will make a nice addition to the Sinkyone Wilderness. Maybe the elk herd will survive without the human predation. It will be a costly clean-up though. They weren’t the eco-friendly hippies of yester year.
July 2, 2008 at 9:33 pm
This week’s NCJ has details of the land transfers and the price paid by Lost Paradise, check it out.
July 2, 2008 at 9:53 pm
noted resident plagiarist/liar “not a native” has no credibility to question other people’s ethics. see…
http://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2008/06/27/eureka-makes-cover-of-outside-magazine/#comment-41661
…and the exchanges following that for his/her own admission that s/he plagarizes anecdotes from the newspaper and presents them as his/her own on blogs, that s/he feels this is absolutely o.k. because it is a blog, and that anyone who believes him/her is a dupe and a fool. then not a native goes into a hilarious tailpin of name-calling and rage when these shortcomings are pointed out.
it’s really quite amusing, if you haven’t read it yet you really should before you waste any time arguing ethics with nan. s/he is in an ethical quagmire already, and should just follow the old saying “physician, heal thyself” before trying to improve anyone else’s ethics.
July 2, 2008 at 9:54 pm
Red 8:27
That is so right on so many levels. Jane notwithstanding.
July 2, 2008 at 10:17 pm
Where did I say that Red? You seem to be reading a lot more into what I posted than is there. I don’t happen to believe that the political spectrum is a line and no where did I state that. I have studied politics and political history for years and certainly don’t need anyone as ignorant as you to presume to educate me.
July 2, 2008 at 10:19 pm
“…fascism and communism have much more in common…”
so true. it’s called totalitarianism. it sucks under any name.
July 2, 2008 at 10:38 pm
FYI, political ideology is more like a grid in a square with left and right authoritarians at the top, left and right libertarians on the bottom. The squares are separated by a horizontal line indicating economic views and a verticle line indicating social views. Everyone falls somewhere on that grid in their ideology from fascists to anarchists, communists to libertarians. My views fall just about in the middle of the left libertarian square.
July 2, 2008 at 10:44 pm
Well then Jane you and I are in the same square, though I am most likely nearer the corner.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 2, 2008 at 10:54 pm
http://www.politicalcompass.org
-8.75, -7.74
July 2, 2008 at 10:55 pm
(I’m so negative.)
July 2, 2008 at 11:01 pm
I don’t recall my exact score, but both were between -4 and -6. A little below and to the left of Gandhi.
July 2, 2008 at 11:10 pm
That’s an interesting site, gulo gordo.
I like this:
“The chart also makes clear that, despite popular perceptions, the opposite of fascism is not communism but anarchism (ie liberal socialism), and that the opposite of communism ( i.e. an entirely state-planned economy) is neo-liberalism (i.e. extreme deregulated economy) “
July 2, 2008 at 11:24 pm
I think those “popular perceptions” are deliberately fed to the public by the MSM. They are using a tactic right out of 1984, changing the meaning of words. A recent example of it is the popular use of the oxymoronic word, Islamofascism for fanatics living in caves. It’s absurd.
July 2, 2008 at 11:25 pm
-7.38, -6.05
July 2, 2008 at 11:29 pm
What is frighteing about the whole thing is that at the same time this country is sliding into fascism with privatization of critical government services, government approved torture, unitary executive, patriot act, wars, blurring the lines between church and state, warrantless wiretapping and FISA changes. I don’t think it is coincidence that they are trying to change the “popular perception” of what fascism is. Look how many have fallen for it.
July 2, 2008 at 11:39 pm
Peace be with you
-8.12, -9.28
love eternal
tad
July 2, 2008 at 11:51 pm
Thanks gulo gordo, my test scored with Nelson Mandela, I’m happy to know that!
July 2, 2008 at 11:51 pm
the four-cornered grid is a useful mental tool for trying to understand people’s overall worldviews, but it is still just an artificial construct and gross oversimplification of people’s actual outlooks.
except for committed partisans of one political ideology or another, who are a relatively small portion of the population, most people are not committed to any one worldview on all issues. some political scientists have called this being “pre-political,” but perhaps simply “noncommitted” would be a better term. In other words, most people do not “fall” into any of the four boxes, but rather “float” in front of it in general, and choose to express the values of one or the other depending upon the frame of reference, the particular issue, and especially depending on how they perceive that the particular application of the theory to the facts would affect them and the people and things they care most about. so some people are very “libertarian” on most issues, but then are, for example, anti-abortion (ron paul comes to mind). one way to look at this is that they are just selfish hypocrites. another way to look at it is that people are just too complex to be categorized into one of four points on a political compass, any more than they could be located on a line ranging from fascist to communist (or a circle, or whatever).
but that grid system certainly IS way more useful as an intellectual tool than the simple left-right construct that is generally bandied about by folks in casual conversation or in the media. that one is truly useless in a world as complex as ours. at least the grid construct is two dimensional. perhaps three dimensions will be a bit better yet…
anyone want to propose another axis?
i’ll propose one: open-minded at one end versus intellectally committed at the other. make a line and pop that puppy right through center of the grid. now you can plot in three dimensions.
maybe there might be an even more useful third axis…any thoughts?
July 3, 2008 at 12:24 am
The majority of the children who live in my house favor using cocaine on weekends. They say I’d better not interfere, because they have a God-given right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” I tend to agree. My kids deserve to live in our house according to their own personal ethics. We don’t care what the neighbors think. And of course, the laws be damned.
July 3, 2008 at 1:11 am
Real persuasive example. You’re right, obeying authority is absolutely an all-or-nothing proposition. There’s obviously no room for the common sense ability to distinguish between allowing some nonconformity on the one hand and all-out chaos (as represented by your example) on the other hand. Great argument strategy, pal.
July 3, 2008 at 3:02 am
marijuana for profit marijuana for people who do not want to drink a six pack
the more people grow it the cheaper it becomes
one day people will not be going to prison for marijuana, just like black people do not for riding in the front of a bus. one day a coke dealer will get less time than a rapist or child molester, i wish to all the haters of marijuana that someone in your family gets raped and molested and they never find the perp because the system spent money and time going after a marijuana advocate who stood out. all the police funding went to that and all the da’s time and all the courts time to
drugs need to be legal
if i want to down a bottle of advils and drink 10 cans of dr. pepper i can. but once you tell me not to eat the apple and
look the other way and i will eat it everytime
wise up righty’s
July 3, 2008 at 7:19 am
Wow Matt, you exemplify the marijuana advocates with your hate filled rant…why do you think anyone needs either a six-pack or pot? Why get drunk or stoned?? Can’t handle life?
Why do you think people who don’t appreciate drugs should have their children raped? What’s wrong with you?
What is wrong with society when marijuana, a freaking plant, is equated with Black people’s fight for civil rights??
And by the way, child molesters generally get big time sentences (rightly so) and pot dealers on the Plaza get their stash taken away from them and sometimes a written ticket, but usually not much more.
July 3, 2008 at 7:32 am
The Barnum Timber transaction puzzle remains at the heart of this bizarre string.
July 3, 2008 at 7:49 am
Matt doesn’t exemplify marijuana advocates any more than you exemplify everyone who holds one of the same views you do. Matt’s opinion is just that, his opinion, and has no bearing on the views of other people who may share some of his views.
July 3, 2008 at 8:11 am
I tried to take Gulu Gordo’s “test”. I couldn’t make it past the first page. Every question that I came to required an essay answer. I just couldn’t check that little box ,because it really didn’t reflct how I truly feel about things. I tried, but it just wouldn’t happen!
So, I guess I never know what political philosophy that I might lean toward. The story of my life!
July 3, 2008 at 8:19 am
Matt is too stoned to make any sort of cohesive argument about anything.
July 3, 2008 at 8:32 am
They can’t do essay answers so gave a sampling of views from far right to far left and you pick the one closest to what you believe, Ernie.
July 3, 2008 at 9:03 am
not my test ernie.
theo – yeah, but the question is does it illuminate more than it obscures. My sense is yes. Also, given that most people can’t think very clearly in even one political dimension, asking them to jump into the ideological equivalent of n-dimensional chess is not very realistic.
tad – wtf? are you trying to channel Jesus, or Kropotkin?
July 3, 2008 at 9:24 am
Matt, your hatred is a good example of why we need law enforcement. I think Sunnybrayer covered it nicely. Righties and lefties could not learn shit from you.
July 3, 2008 at 11:43 am
when your house gets robbed, your daughter gets raped, and your brother molests your son and the police do not have the resources to investigate and the detectives are not trained for real crime, what are you going to do? your going to watch more marijuana offenders go down. no marijuana busts until we follow that tweeker in downtown eureka and see who is giving the shit to make there face and body so gross and looking so old, rid the tweekers and tweek labs and dealers first. but wait those people are lo key and are hard for the cops to catch. so go after the easy things. like pot grows
wake up
now
July 3, 2008 at 11:56 am
Independence for California and Rose ( At least she should do is take a bath ) .
July 3, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Joe – thank you for that insight into your warped and anti-”progressive” brain. Insults are so adult.
July 3, 2008 at 1:38 pm
-7.62, -5.69. I’m firmly entrenched in the lower-left corner, with excellent company: Nelson Mandela and the Dalai Lama.
July 3, 2008 at 2:47 pm
matt……..do you know where the magical and enchanting “crystal Palace” is ? heard it is a place full of treasure….
July 3, 2008 at 3:37 pm
“pick the one closest to what you believe”
Nope, cant do it. It’s like the yes-no-answer question. “Do you want to skip the foreplay”. It’s not the real question, and even if it was, you can’t think about it. So I don’t answer yes-no questions or multiple-choice, because they just arn’t something that I can deal with!
So how would you answer that question?
X-yes or
0-no.
July 3, 2008 at 3:40 pm
See! You can’t answer a simple question either!
July 3, 2008 at 4:51 pm
Peace be with you
gulo gordo, I guess I just feel strongly about things. It’s funny you mention those two as they are both my favorites roll-models in their respective fields, Peace and Governing.
Matt, you make an excellent point, but . . . Just like the person you were responding to, you are putting bad energy into the mix. I wish that his children neither become coke-heads as he was manifesting, nor ever get a hair on their heads harmed. It seems that sometimes it would be beneficial to society for those stone throwers from the glass houses to get a taste of reality, but what happens is that we just end up with one more broken person to pick up. Until parents take back the responsibility of overseeing their children’s education, and not delegating it to the government, drugs and violence will continue to be what fills the gap left by lying curriculums.
love eternal
tad
July 3, 2008 at 9:19 pm
I dont know what this means but the sherrifs office mobile command base is staffed and in operation at Eel River inmate camp and it has nothing to do with the fires.
July 3, 2008 at 10:41 pm
Sorry Ernie, I was AFK. The questions, as I remember them, were mostly of the never / seldom / often / always variety rather than yes / no. Since there are multiple questions in every category and no single answer decides your score, I think this is about as accurate as possible in a computer scored test of this nature.
Based upon your posts I have read, I would guess your score for economics would be a +4 to +6 and your score for social would be on the positive side close to 0. Your placement on the grid would probably be in the bottom middle of the right hand square.