Local business gets a boost with the Humboldt County Independent Business Alliance. Press release below.
COUNTY AND CITIES DECLARE JULY 1-7 “INDEPENDENTS
WEEK” IN SUPPORT OF HOMEGROWN BUSINESSES
EUREKA – This week the Humboldt County Board of Supervisors as well as the Eureka and Arcata City Councils adopted proclamations declaring July 1-7, 2008 to be “Independents Week” and calling for residents to support and celebrate the independent, local businesses of Humboldt County.
The proclamations were brought forward by the Humboldt County Independent Business Alliance (HumIBA), a new organization formed to strengthen the local economy of Humboldt County by offering support to local, independent businesses and education to the general public about the vital role that independent businesses play in creating a strong, stable, local economy.
Independents Week is an annual national campaign to highlight locally-owned independent businesses. The event is being celebrated in over 40 communities across the country.
Supervisors Bonnie Neely and John Woolley sponsored the “Independents Week” proclamation that was passed unanimously by the Board of Supervisors on Tuesday. “It is common knowledge that independent, small businesses are the backbone to local economies,” said Woolley. “By doing business locally, you not only get great personal service and real value, you also help strengthen our community and local economy,” added Supervisor Neely.
“Independents Week is an opportunity to highlight the local businesses that help make Humboldt County the unique, special place we all love,” said Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap, Co-Coordinator of the project. “We’re inviting residents to take our ‘Go Local’ Challenge by shopping exclusively local and independent for the week.”
The group is also organizing a Scavenger Hunt that can be played by finding items at independent businesses around the county. Game cards can be downloaded from the group’s website where game rules can also be found.
“We’re a new organization, but we have a lot of great projects planned for the year ahead,” said Sopoci-Belknap. “In November we’ll be printing a directory of Humboldt County independent businesses to make it easier for residents and visitors to know where they can go to keep their dollars local.” The group is offering free directory listings to qualifying businesses.
“When we support local ‘independent’ businesses our community’s economy is made even stronger, for they create a greater circulation of our dollars and are often recognized for their knowledge and support of community activities. Buying from local independent businesses is good business and good for our community,” said Supervisor Woolley.
For more information about the Humboldt County Independent Business Alliance, the Local Options Directory, or the activities planned for Independents Week visit their website at www.HumIBA.org or call 476-8475.
July 3, 2008 at 1:07 am
Another feel-good city proclamation. Cool! That’s real change!
July 3, 2008 at 1:09 am
Another nay-saying comment. Cool! That’s real…oh, never mind.
July 3, 2008 at 1:43 am
Sometimes Kaitlin seems kind of hot.
July 3, 2008 at 3:23 am
It’s a valid criticism considering that in Arcata a city councilman lost his re-election bid on that very issue. In a liberal town that hates Bush and the Iraq war he lost over anti-administration proclamations. That speaks to just how many people are tired of government time being spent on such things.
Will this proclamation make an ounce of difference? No. It’s a feel-good measure for people who believe it it while, at most, producing a smirk from the vast majority of sheep who head to the mall or Costco every weekend.
July 3, 2008 at 6:59 am
how mant acronyms are cobb and socio going to start till one takes off.
July 3, 2008 at 7:09 am
Ahh- an anti-business business organization!
July 3, 2008 at 7:36 am
Go look at the website. This is just a way to make some money for the promoters.
July 3, 2008 at 7:41 am
Are lawyers and real estate agents “independent and local”?
July 3, 2008 at 7:43 am
You made the perfect comment about this. And a picture with glass, yea the guy who pays his people so well, gives them benifits, 401′,s etc. Oh no, thats what he wants everyone else to do. Was he not involved in another business group in eureka that did not do shit but run its mouth and foul up others plans. An Katlin is a well known in the business community, yea right.
This is a big piece of progey PR period. Try and find a member on the site. The big thing progey have going for them is the ability to write grants, good political PR people, and great web developers. Oh and did I leave out the blog. But its still just masterbation as far as any real good being done for the community as a whole.
I’m a local business man in my town and do 90% of my shopping with local businesses. Locals deal with me and I deal with them. In 10+ years I have not been to the mall shops 10 times. Costco 1Xmonth, probably less now as I will change my transportation habits and it will be harder to justify the gas vs any savings.
July 3, 2008 at 8:12 am
Good point. I hadn’t visited the website. Advertise with them? Huh? As if we need a publication to tell us who is local and who is not.
I thought this was just a bunch of silly fluff propaganda, but now I see it differently.
July 3, 2008 at 8:30 am
I think this sounds cool. I know a lot of people who don’t know which businesses are local. They think Target or KMart are local because they are here. Seems like a helpful thing.
July 3, 2008 at 8:41 am
The six questions you must pass to be a member of HumIBA.
Is your business privately held (not publicly traded)? – Sorry Redwood Capital Bank, you probably don’t count. Take your one branch and go.
Do the business owners, totaling greater than 50% of the business ownership, live in Humboldt County? Any family corporations out there with kids out of the area? Sorry you don’t count.
Is your business registered in California, with no corporate or national headquarters outside Humboldt County? Hmm, anyone with a headquarters in Crescent City? Winzler and Kelly has a corporate office in Santa Rosa. Guess they are out.
Can your business make independent decisions regarding the name and look of your business, as well as all business purchasing, practices, and distribution? Sorry, hardware stores (Ace/True Value) you might have a problem. Best Western Motels (a marketing cooperative of independently owned properties), sorry. No insurance agents either, unless they are completely independent. I hope Greg and Carol still count.
Do you pay all your own marketing, rent, and other business expenses (without assistance from a corporate headquarters)? Again, sorry to any locally owned business that might receive marketing/advertising help from elsewhere. Any locally owned Ace Hardware is out I guess…
Do you have six or fewer branches or outlets? Sorry Coast Central Credit Union, you are too big. Ramones, one more location and you don’t count. Winzler and Kelly, sorry, you were just too good at what you do. Sorry.
God forbid you should be successful and expand.
Hey, let’s celebrate those employers that pay above average wages, provide health care and retirement benefits. Gee, I wonder why that’s not a criteria above. Seems to me that how you treat your workers should be at least on the list. Oh well…
July 3, 2008 at 8:49 am
Some of your assumptions are ridiculous. If you want accurate answers to them, go to the source and get the facts.
July 3, 2008 at 8:55 am
I did. I went to their website. I found it ridiculous after I scratched the surface. Too bad Larry posed for the photo.
July 3, 2008 at 8:57 am
The six questions are from their website.
http://www.humiba.org/membership.html
Not sure what assumptions I made are ridiculous. Please let me know.
July 3, 2008 at 8:58 am
Hats off to the local businesses that stay here and provide goods and services while keeping at least some of the money circulating in Humco. They deserve our recognition and patronage. Thumbs down to those believers in Reaganomics and outside extractors who put us in the predicament we now face.
July 3, 2008 at 9:04 am
Wow, tying people who are skeptical of this group to Reaganomics. Great smear. Totally unsupported, ridiculous smear.
July 3, 2008 at 9:04 am
Because the distinction is just that clear. So simple, so easy.
July 3, 2008 at 9:04 am
Its your ANSWERS that are less than accurate, not the questions DUH!
July 3, 2008 at 9:10 am
Insurance, real estate, contractors, barbers – all are licensed and regulated by the state, so to a great extent their business practices are not theirs to choose. As I read this, we would not be eligible to join.
It’s okay, though. We’re all joined up for the moment anyway…
July 3, 2008 at 9:15 am
If that was a problem with membership eligibility virtually no business could belong, Greg.
July 3, 2008 at 9:15 am
Hey folks,
Not sure why you feel the need to be so negative. The proclamation itself isn’t supposed to change anything, it is to help get the word out.
The directory is free for businesses to list in. I encourage any businesses owners out there reading this to sign up. Many IBAs create directories, but they are only for the members of the organization. We’re trying something new and trying to make it as comprehensive as possible.
In terms of the criteria to be independent, we’re using the same criteria that works in dozens of other communities across the country. You have to draw the line somewhere. Publicly traded companies run the risk of being controlled by outside forces – anyone remember Maxxam’s takeover of Pacific Lumber? In terms of the size, for something like Coast Central, we expect to make some exceptions if the size is about serving membership, rather than about expansion to the point of losing the homegrown flavor. Local banks/credit unions are a common example of a business that have more “outlets” than six, and if they meet the rest of the criteria than we definitely want to include them.
I have lots of relationships with folks in the business community, which is largely why this project was formed – based on conversations with them about what would be helpful for them in our community.
We absolutely want to celebrate businesses that pay their workers well, or that help the local environment. Independent Business Alliances are a proven way to help more businesses do those things in the long run. For example, in Santa Fe, NM (my hometown) the IBA there actually organized the living wage campaign that passed at the city level. I’d love to see us do something like that – in partnership with the businesses that would have to pay it, and in a way that makes it possible for them to actually succeed.
Lastly, none of the folks working on this project are being paid to do it, and we’ve got a number of folks working really hard. Not to make money, simply to help strengthen our community. The volunteers we have involved who are not business owners stand to gain nothing personally by doing this, other than working on something they believe in.
I wanted to speak to some of these points, but I can’t spend the day replying to every negative comment here. Mostly my reply is for the folks who aren’t writing in, who are observing this. For all we know, these negative comments might be all from the same one or two people. This is a surprisingly active thread, and many of the comments are coming one right after the other.
If anyone wants to have a conversation about what “independent” means, or wants to ask me about the HumIBA, feel free to shoot me an email – kaitlin@HumIBA.org.
Thanks,
Kaitlin
July 3, 2008 at 9:22 am
Oh, provide me some clarity, then.
1. Redwood Capital Bank is publicly traded on the OTCBB.
2. There are many family corporations where one part of the family lives here and runs the business but the majority might live out of Humboldt County, some as far away as Sonoma County!
3. Winzler and Kelly notes that its corporate headquarters are now in Santa Rosa.
4. Best Western is a marketing cooperative that members join willingly. However, they do dictate to their members certain criteria. Those Ace inserts you see come from elsewhere for the benefit of their locally owned hardware stores.
5. Coast Central, technically not a business, so maybe they count, has more than six branches. Ramones has six, so one more they might just be too successful to pass that test.
Again, I don’t know why we don’t ask these businesses to provide information on how they treat their workers (hours per week, wages, benefits, etc.). That used to be what we leftists did to make sure that the people were taken care of.
The point, of course, is not the individual businesses, but the very simplistic way that this whole notion is being pursued. It’s clearly put together by people who have neither really studied small business nor had the responsibility of running one or employing anybody.
July 3, 2008 at 9:23 am
Greg,
Regulations set by the state don’t count as “business practices” in this case. I can see why it might appear that way though. You are personally in control of how you run your business (within the scope of the law) and that makes you independent.
Unlike, for example, a McDonald’s franchise owner. This person may live here locally, but they have an agreement from McDonald’s which limits their purchasing power, their advertising methods and message, etc. A good example is, if they wanted to switch and use all Humboldt grass-fed beef for their hamburgers, they wouldn’t have authority to make that decision on their own – independently.
If you’d like to talk more about whether you qualify (for the directory, you don’t have to join) feel free to email me.
OK, gotta get back to work!
Kaitlin
July 3, 2008 at 9:24 am
Why Greg, you politically incorrect capitalist pig! Not eligible? I always knew you were a wolf in sheep’s clothing! The plot is revealed.
July 3, 2008 at 9:25 am
Oh, Greg, Kaitlin gets to decide whether or not you are an independent business. Go to the Ministry of Ideology and meet with them to make sure.
July 3, 2008 at 9:31 am
No, you’re just inviting businesses to become members with initial membership fees and annual dues. It’s all free, no worries, except we want your money, though we’re an all volunteer outfit. Mmm hmm.
July 3, 2008 at 9:32 am
Last thing, to the person with the points about which businesses qualify as independent and which don’t – it is all about having the authority to make the decisions yourself as the business owner.
For example, Aces actually qualify because they aren’t forced to use that advertising, they choose to on an individual basis. For example, Pierson’s is an Ace member too, but they do their own advertising. Whether a businesses a uses national buying coops, associations, etc. makes no difference. The question is whether they maintain the authority to independently make decisions about how their business will be run.
If this is really that confusing maybe we should examine how this is explained. But since this is the first time I’ve heard from anyone who is confused (as we’ve spoken with literally hundreds of businesses already) it makes me wonder if I’m not just responding to naysayers here. If that’s not the case and anyone has suggestions for clarification, please let me know!
And in terms of who thought up this stuff – it was the folks at the American Independent Business Alliance – an organization started by local businesses owners, originally from Boulder, CO. We’re not obligated to use their same criteria, as an affiliate, but we chose to (mostly) because it makes sense. As I said already, you have to draw the line somewhere.
The whole point it to get people to examine this stuff further and have these discussion. So, it is working already!
Kaitlin
July 3, 2008 at 9:32 am
Working to promote local businesses and strengthen the local economy — how dare they!
July 3, 2008 at 9:41 am
I find it somewhat odd that Kaitlin is representing this group. I’m curious: Has she ever held a normal job, much less owned a business, outside of being the head gal at Democracy Unlimited?
Nothing personal intended. I just figured whoever’d represent a group like this would be some local business owner. Larry Glass, maybe?
July 3, 2008 at 9:46 am
Right, because being an independent business owner leaves you with so much time on your hands. And business owners are the only ones who care about a strong local economy.
[/end sarcasm]
July 3, 2008 at 9:47 am
Fred,
I’ve had several “normal” jobs – if by normal you mean working at a for-profit organization, as opposed to a non-profit. I haven’t ever owned a business, but my parents both did and I helped them growing up.
We have local business owners involved in the project – but these organizations (other IBAs) are commonly run by non-business owners as the business owners themselves are often busy running their business and don’t have time to run another organization. And the organization is a partnership of community members and business owners. As we grow, we’ll see what happens in terms of spokespeople and such. I’d love to hand over the reigns of that to someone else!
Must go now, can’t be pulled further into the time suck that is the blogs…for real. How do you folks do this all day? Heraldo, I’m impressed.
Kaitlin
July 3, 2008 at 9:49 am
I don’t do it all day, but some folks clearly do. Must be because they don’t have “real” jobs.
July 3, 2008 at 9:56 am
I have “real” job which involves working with a computer. It is nice to take breaks and scan the blogs.
BTW, we are already members of the state and national Independent Insurance Agents and the Loleta Chamber of Commerce.
July 3, 2008 at 9:56 am
Hey, let’s celebrate those employers that pay above average wages, provide health care and retirement benefits. Gee, I wonder why that’s not a criteria above. Seems to me that how you treat your workers should be at least on the list. Oh well…
While I respect what these folks are trying to do, I share this concern. Supporting the local economy is good, but supporting businesses that treat their workers with dignity and pay them well is even better.
Of course, it would be best if we could do both, at the same time! Unfortunately, all too often that is not the case. I wish that the Independent Business Alliance would try to hold some of these local businesses to a higher standard.
I do the majority of my shopping at local businesses, but I will continue to make my monthly pilgrimage to Costco.
July 3, 2008 at 9:57 am
Also, our insurance agency, Patterson and Conners, is a member of the Fortuna Chamber of Commerce.
July 3, 2008 at 9:58 am
They aren’t really confused, Kaitlin. They just try to confuse and mislead others.
July 3, 2008 at 9:59 am
Maybe if you take them at face value. Be skeptical, except when you support a stated cause prima facie? No thanks.
July 3, 2008 at 10:13 am
Carol! Chambers of Commerce! I knew it. You are also a wolf in sheep’s clothing. You have been exposed!
I bet the insurance you sell comes from non-local -gulp- corporations.
Shane. Good comments. Thanks for being thoughtful.
July 3, 2008 at 12:06 pm
We are now in out 6th straight month of job loss in this country. I think anything that promots local businesses in Humboldt Co. is a good thing. I don’t hate outside corporations. Costco pays union wages and everyone that works there seems to realy like it. On the other hand, Wal-mart gets sued every year or so because they violate state labor laws and force people to work off the clock. Geez, no wonder they can undercut everybody, they pay the least ammount they can to their workers and then demand that they work through their breaks for free. They were run out of Humboldt and I hope they stay out! As for the criteria for being called local in this alliance, many companies like the one I work for are headquartered in Ca. but not considered local, even though we make most of the decisions here locally. That doesn’t make us a local business. Most of our business comes from local businesses (we sell advertising),
and because of this fact, I support Kaitlin and hope the alliance can do some good for local business.
July 3, 2008 at 12:23 pm
Heraldo wrote, “Must be because they don’t have “real” jobs.”.
No. It’s more along the line of not having a life.
July 3, 2008 at 3:05 pm
Right Said Fred ^^^^^^^
July 3, 2008 at 5:51 pm
I can’t believe the torrent of negativity!!! ” What’s to be bad?” and maybe it will do some good. Small businesses need all the help they can get. Kaitlin, I wish you well in this. Ignore the brave “anon’s” . They’re always there to snipe and snarl. I’m starting to think Heraldo should rename the blog “Pearls Before Swine”….
July 3, 2008 at 6:50 pm
That’s nice in premise, but difficult when producing an advertising-supported publication. The enemy of your enemy is your friend, at least in politics.
July 3, 2008 at 6:55 pm
You apparently skip messages at the first sign of negativity or have a … oh forget it, you already skipped to the next message.
July 3, 2008 at 7:35 pm
if you want to experience some world-class negativity, try to unionize these local businesses. The most used excuse is, “we couldn’t compete if we had to pay those wages”. A race to the bottom is what these local businesses are engaged in. Where is your sense of community responsibility? How about disclosure on wage/benefit packages of all the businesses that are advertising as local. You first Glass!
July 3, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Don’t be so negative. My local dollars spent at local stores pay for good, minimum wage jobs and line the pockets of deserving store owners who, when they’re not spending our local dollars on vacations abroad, are spending our local dollars at local car dealers, local fast food restaurants and local K-Marts. Every local dollar you spend locally stays locally. Why don’t you see the obvious?
July 3, 2008 at 7:43 pm
So you support the Eureka Fair Compensation Act, yocal? A $10.00 an hour minimum wage? You think that local business should pay higher wages, at least to minimum wage earners?
What a night!
Thank you, yokel for your compassion. And I had you pegged for an uncompassionate conservative.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 3, 2008 at 8:09 pm
Yes, sure I support a living wage. Your beloved local store owners won’t though. They’ll pull out all the stops to stop you.
You’ve simply overrated the power of local stores to work magic. There’s nothing magic about them.
July 3, 2008 at 8:39 pm
7:43 That’s the danger of thinking you know it all. Try this on for size. I would only support the minimum wage if it can be used as justification for a limit on maximum wage…which I do not support. Glass, et al. would not get behind minimum wage if on the flip side their maximum profit was also legislated. What I do support is collective bargaining as a element of the free market. Weird, huh?
July 3, 2008 at 8:41 pm
The more people shop locally, the more money the local business owners will have to pay their workers, the more the workers will have to spend locally supporting others in the upward spiral of a more sustainable community.
Can’t get much more positive than that Mabel. Nice to not see you tonight.
July 3, 2008 at 8:43 pm
I don’t think I know it all and I admitted that I might have mischaracterized you. That is enough. I am happy to be discussing real points of view though instead of just deflecting insults. It is refreshing.
So what you would like to see is all Eureka workers represented by a union? A geographic organized general labor union rather than a trade union? Interesting.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 3, 2008 at 8:46 pm
What does the Chamber of Commerce do to support local businesses?
July 3, 2008 at 8:48 pm
Ask not what the Chamber does for you, ask what you can do for your Chamber.
That $300,000 dollars per year taxpayer entitlement -er, subsidy is sacred Sir. Or Madame.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 3, 2008 at 8:59 pm
if we don’t have local businesses, are we really going to convince walmart and home depot to pay a living wage? once the corporates drive all the locals out of business they can do whatever they want. local businesses aren’t perfect, but they can be addressed on a human level as fellow community members. there’s no one fix for all the evils of the world…unless someone out there has figured it out and is spitefully sitting on the magic potion because they so enjoy writing nasty blog entries…
July 3, 2008 at 9:11 pm
Bill doesnt like insults directed his way, but he sure enjoys slingin em towards those he doesnt agree with politcally.
I think you are an uncomassionate progressive.
July 3, 2008 at 9:29 pm
highboldtage Says:
July 3, 2008 at 6:45 pm
“Thank you Rose for your honest assessment of this program.”
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 3, 2008 at 9:40 pm
Not reasonable. Different trades require different levels of training and represent different levels of value to society. That is the market element dictating to wages when it comes to skilled versus un-skilled labor. Locally, even the skilled labor settles for less (low pay, no health care or pension) due to the greed of the exalted local employers. It would really be informative to know what these exalted local employers pay their employees. Come on Kaitlin and Larry, use this blog to inform, not just blow smoke.
July 3, 2008 at 9:54 pm
I will venture a guess that most of Larry’s employees make less than $10.00 an hour.
But I can tell you that all of them seem to be very happy working there, so it is not just money that motivates them. They seem to like Larry just fine.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 3, 2008 at 11:03 pm
Funny that one of Larry’s recently made good friends,Orinda mayor Steven Glazer sponsored a program to provide Orinda shoppers with shop local carrying bags.
July 3, 2008 at 11:41 pm
What is “Shop Orinda”?
“Shop Orinda” is a joint effort by the Orinda Chamber of Commerce and the City of Orinda to stimulate local business through a public awareness campaign. Simply put, “Shop Orinda” supports the local business community and keeps tax dollars here where they belong!
Why the bags?
What better way to show your support of the local community than to shop locally with your own “Shop Orinda” reusable tote? And, they’re eco-friendly, too. Starting in mid-November, the bags are available while they last at Chamber Member stores and shops displaying the “Shop Orinda” logo in their window.
Who does “Shop Orinda” benefit?
Everyone … think about it. If our local business community is thriving, the whole community is thriving. Plus, a healthy business community will attract even more businesses to Orinda.
Who knows … Orinda could even be regarded as a shopping “destination” like many of our surrounding communities.
But it all starts with a new mindset:
Shop Orinda
July 3, 2008 at 11:54 pm
Shop Orinda sounds like a Shop Arcata campaign. Don’t leave our town to shop in Eureka, and you Eurekans come to our town to shop at, umm, hmm, oh just go visit Tavern Row. It’s the only thing we excel at.
July 4, 2008 at 12:10 am
11:54 is right, the Arcata merchants were doing that back in the 80s, as I recall, Alex Stillman was a leader in that – came with a poster campaign (might be that same guy from Orinda) and lunches at the Arcata Hotel… predated the OysterFest, I believe, and in a short time the posters became local, with Amy Uyeki and some others
That just flat out ain’t a new mindset. Older than dirt.
July 4, 2008 at 12:21 am
Is it the older than dirt mindset that has allowed Arcata to become the largest provider for manufacturing related businesses in the area?
July 4, 2008 at 12:22 am
Hum IBA doesn’t claim to be reinventing the wheel. They’re implementing what’s worked in other places to support local businesses. I applaud them.
July 4, 2008 at 12:30 am
Rose,do you not know the relationship between Larry and Mr.Glazer?I’ve been to Orinda,and there’s nothing there resembling any Marina Center.
July 4, 2008 at 12:41 am
Examples please. Typically pro-independent business orgs are organized by… independent businesses… merchant associations, Main Streets, etc.
But that’s precisely what it’s doing.
July 4, 2008 at 12:43 am
Examples please.
July 4, 2008 at 12:56 am
From today’s Eureka Reporter:
July 4, 2008 at 6:59 am
There are lots of reasons why people have come around to the notion that it is better to “shop local.”
We have discovered, for one thing, that though prices may be lower at Wal-Mart, the quality of the merchandise is far lower than it might have been 30 years ago when most of our goods were manufactured domestically.
This devaluation of quality is contagious as domestic manufacturers must cut costs to compete with manufacturers overseas using slave labor and inferior materials. When domestic manufacturers cut costs then the quality of their goods declines too.
That is just one thing.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 4, 2008 at 7:51 am
yes, yes, support local business, we get it…no one addressed the point of– do the local business really take care of the local employees? health benefits? living wage? 401k is pushing it! Sorry, I would support an out of area shop that provides these benefits for the workers/masses over a local owner that is lining his/her pockets locally and not giving or taking responsibility for the workers…ask around, how many local business provide health care? I am sure Larry Glass does….right?
July 4, 2008 at 7:58 am
I think all businesses, local or non-local should pay a living wage. That is obvious isn’t it? I don’t think local business should be given a pass on adequate compensation just because they are local.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 4, 2008 at 8:03 am
a distressingly large minority of people here hate local businesses. It is clear by the ignorance displayed here that education is need, so it looks like IBA as it’s work cut out for it.
July 4, 2008 at 8:07 am
No, mresquan, I have no idea, never met the guy, but I don’t think Glazer was hired to build Marina Center – isn’t he a PR guy?
Bill – then you should start a business. You would have lots of applicants, I am sure.
July 4, 2008 at 8:10 am
Thank you Rose,
I am considering it. I expect rents to come down considerably in the next couple of years, thus making it more possible to succeed.
If I were to try to open a store in Old Town I would try to find something to sell that the locals needed. I would not open a shoppe selling tourist junk.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 4, 2008 at 8:13 am
I sort of addressed it Copernicus. If local stores have more business they are ABLE to provide a better pay and benefits package. If their profits rise and their benefit packages don’t, patronizing other stores which do would be an effective way to encourage them to do so. Fighting a minimum wage increase claiming local employers can’t afford it while at the same time complaining that they live extravagant lifestyles rather than pay their employees well or give them any benefits is contradictory.
That increasing the wages of the lowest paid workers benefits everyone was proven in Washington State when they raised their minimum wage considerably above neighboring states. There were wails of impending disaster but the opposite occurred. Employers saw their profits rise because those pay increases gave low income people more money to spend and they spent it in mostly local businesses.
It’s such a simple and common sense idea. The working class is the tide and when it rises it raises all boats, even the yachts.
July 4, 2008 at 8:21 am
Well stated,
Jane Doe
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 4, 2008 at 9:44 am
The Works has had a health insurance plan through Blue Cross since winter 2000.
July 4, 2008 at 9:46 am
And what portion do the employees have to pay, there, Larr?
July 4, 2008 at 9:48 am
Thanks for helping to gut Eureka’s budget to, there Larry.
The Fire and Police Chiefs BOTH said their response times were fine with the frozen positions. Bye Bye parks/zoo etc.
Man, am I disappointed in you.
July 4, 2008 at 3:42 pm
What does Eureka Mainstreet do for local businesses?
July 4, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Hey Mike, Arts Alive, 4th of July festival, summer concert series, seasonal co-op advertising, constantly pushing the city to finally get moving on various projects, etc. etc. etc. All with less than 2 full time employees. Compare that with the Chamber…
July 4, 2008 at 5:51 pm
Doesn’t Eureka Mainstreet pay for Pacific Coast Security?
July 4, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Hey Mike, learn about Main Street.
July 4, 2008 at 6:15 pm
Main Street kept Old Town from going to **** after the mall came in and Eurekans got excited about chain stores.
Eureka is lucky to have a Main Street working to keep the city special. They don’t grandstand and kick around political footballs. They aren’t the Chamber. They are doers and they get stuff done. The public events are the only side the public sees of Main Street, so it’s a good thing they organize good events.
I laugh at this supposed Independent Business Alliance and its feel-good do-nothing waste of time and resources. Support real change, not spare change.
July 4, 2008 at 6:25 pm
Wow, censorship is alive and well, all stemming from a legitimate question regarding how Larry helped drive Eureka Mainstreet into the ground several years ago.
If it weren’t for the heroic efforts of many, like Charlotte McDonald, Larry wouldve killed Eka Mainstreet.
Perhaps Heraldo should do an investigation instead of removing posts that paint her heros in a less than flattering light.
July 4, 2008 at 6:29 pm
Did your message not appear directly after posting it? If so, that’s WordPress’ overzealous spam filter.
If it disappeared a few hours to a day later after your participation in a thread died down, when you were least likely to notice it disappearing, hey, I know your pain brother.
July 4, 2008 at 6:46 pm
How about the $15,000,000 in direct state subsidies paid to Eureka businesses by California? State subsidies for our “entrepeneurs” because they “create jobs”. Sweet Republican socialism for the business class. It looks like they were creating profit as well as jobs, and all on the taxpayers dime.
Yes the $15,000,000 is an estimate based upon the 600 “Enterprize Zone Employees” that the state sponsers in Eureka. All you minimum wage workers, did you know that the state of California is paying half of your wages? Did your employer tell you that? Is your employer sharing that taxpayer bounty with you?
Of course we can credit Eureka Mainstreet with this Republican socialist corruption.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 4, 2008 at 6:53 pm
There is no connection. Enterprise zones aren’t administered by a Main Street organization. It’s the city and it’s not limited to downtown.
Bill, confide in a close friend and ask him for a clue.
July 4, 2008 at 6:53 pm
9:44 Come on, you can’t really expect to get away with that “answer”. First question is why did this option for The Works employees only become available in, as you say, winter 2000? I was buying records there in the 70’s. Straight answer this time please, what is the wage and benefit package for a senior employee? Or to put it another way, what can an hourly employee of The Works peak out in terms of earnings potential? This info would be helpful for us all to place the real value on a long time local business such as yours and Commissioner Higgins.
July 4, 2008 at 7:00 pm
Tell us “local yocal” what jobs you make for our area?
July 4, 2008 at 7:00 pm
I am well aware that this program is administered through the Redevelopment Agency. My point is that Mainstreet is the one of the main instigators of this Republican socialism, along with a couple of large employers like Target and the Pulp Mill. The chinese owned pulp mill is part of the enterprise zone too. How many employees of this chinese company are subsidized by California taxpayers?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 4, 2008 at 7:08 pm
7:00 $40/hr. to $50/hr. range. And because it is Independence Day, I’m feeling especially patriotic and vitriolic, so one more question before BBQ and fireworks…why should the local piss-ants be taken seriously when it comes to economic prosperity?
July 4, 2008 at 7:08 pm
Prove it. You can’t.
July 4, 2008 at 7:12 pm
And by that I mean, show that the state or federal main street organization had a hand in crafting the enterprise zone legislation. And then, show me why I should have ill will to Eureka main street for it.
If Eureka main street took advantage of the legislation by informing small independent businesses that they could start up shop in a certain decrepit part of town, thus indirectly helping reduce crime and make our community more livable at the same time, well, that just means they were doing their job. They advised small business owners about opportunities available to them.
Your rant is just that, a rant. Silly on its face. Sillier still that I’m bothering to call you out on your fantasy.
July 4, 2008 at 7:24 pm
There’s nothing Republican about main street ideals… historic preservation, local ownership, cultural/architectural standards, a whole bunch of stuff that Republicans hate because main streets introduce layers of added regulations, constraints on businesses to protect a community. Bill is out to lunch.
July 4, 2008 at 7:36 pm
“$40/hr. to $50/hr. range”
As a wage with benefits?
July 4, 2008 at 7:41 pm
Hey, I bet I know Local Yocal. There are only so many prosperous employers pissy enough to spend time on blogs smacking know-nothings upside the head. And I don’t mean Mr. A. This other guy is a jerk in real life, but damn if he isn’t successful with well-paid employees.
July 4, 2008 at 7:50 pm
Yes. And actually, the collective bargaining process recently negotiated a wage increase for top level hourly employees into the $65/hr. to $75/hr. region, with the benefit package representing around $20/hr. of that package. Keep in mind that this is highly skilled labor that requires a 5 year apprenticeship. The projections are for a severe shortage in the near future for this skill. Soooo, can you begin to understand why it is especially galling to endure the likes of Glass/Higgins steering the county in matters of gainful employment?
July 4, 2008 at 8:06 pm
7:41 Waaaay off. But take a stab at it genius. Hazard a guess and if you are correct, I’ll come clean.
July 4, 2008 at 8:24 pm
“it is especially galling to endure the likes of Glass/Higgins steering the county in matters of gainful employment”
Feel free to run for office so we can all have $75/hr jobs!
July 4, 2008 at 8:28 pm
Soooo, can you begin to understand why it is especially galling to endure the idea that you won’t tell us what these jobs are so that we can begin our apprenticeships.
July 5, 2008 at 12:09 am
I didn’t say that main street ideals were Republican. I said that handing out $15,000,000 in direct cash subsidies to businesses is Republican socialism.
If you wrote a check to every single man woman and child in Eureka for the same total they would all get a $500 check. A family of four would get $2,000. You would probably call that socialism.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 12:12 am
Local yocal,
Please answer my question. How many of the chinese owned Pulp mill employees are subsidized by the taxpayer funded enterprise zone program?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 9:42 am
No bill, we’d call that (albeit slightly modified) GWB’s economic stimulus program.
July 5, 2008 at 10:44 am
Answer me this Bill, what’s wrong with the pulp mill being revived so that people have jobs so their families can eat? What’s wrong with reinvigorating dilapidated areas that are already developed? Why do you hate us Bill?
July 5, 2008 at 10:47 am
To clarify Bill’s conspiracy theory, the state of California didn’t set out to give Chinese companies money. It gave incentives to bring back jobs to run down parts of town. That a Chinese company was the only company that wanted to move into an area and bring jobs with it, well, that’s not the state’s fault. Blame whomever you want for the economy, but the US in many respects is the new China. Cheap labor, so the companies come here and bring with them jobs.
Bill, if you have a beef with Chinese companies, fine, but it has nothing to do with enterprise zones. American companies are welcome to those zones too.
It seems you concoct various conspiracy theories and as we knock one down (main street and Reaganism, as if main streets were something Republicans would ever support in a million years) you move onto the next nutty idea.
July 5, 2008 at 10:49 am
Oh, and it was a republican governor that killed California’s main street program. It lives on now mostly in name only.
July 5, 2008 at 10:51 am
I wonder where some of you get your info, Larry Glass sits on the board of Main St. He has never tried to destroy the organization. Yes it was formed to reverse the effects of the Bayshore Mall, which sucked almost every dollar out of the downtown district. Try to name one store that remains there from the pre-mall era. Go ahead, try. That is the effect of large corporate business on main street America. Many down towns all over this country have become vacant, except for the homeless and the none profits that come in to help them. It is very hard to revitalize these areas and it ends up costing millions to do so. That’s millions of you tax dollars and mine. We also loose millions of people, a whole generation, to broken homes, drugs, etc. Don’t you see the connection?
Here is the answer to what downtown business remain: The Works, Sound Advice under a new name, Bank of America. Maybe a few lawyers and Insurance Co,s, a couple of car dealers on 6th St, and the Cafe Waterfront. Not a good track record for Eureka family owned stores.
And yes the city council is struggling to find ways of keeping the city afloat in our latest hard times. But give them credit for trying. Keep in mind that the Police Department and the Fire Department are the two most critical elements to the safety of the community, not the zoo, and a skate park. Did you know that the Fire Department is so under staffed that the city could loose it’s excellent fire rating? That determines the fire insurance rate for every home owner in Eureka? Dig a little deeper folks.
Oh yes, it was local business that paid for the fire works. Our local billioniare, with corporate offices in every state in the union opted out this year.
July 5, 2008 at 10:54 am
And how many of the pulp mill employees are subsidized by the enterprise zone program? You haven’t answered that one.
How many people here think that Chinese companies should be subsidized by American taxpayers? Let’s take a vote on that.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 11:07 am
This is my biggest contention with Larry Glass and the Eureka Main Street mentality.
I certainly don’t have any problem with people trying to experience their dream of owning a small business storefront in Old Town Eureka, and to the extent that Eureka Mainstreet does this WITHOUT TAXPAYER MONEY is fine with me. I support local business and I like walking around Old Town with a variety of shops. I don’t like the mall that much.
The real problem with Mainstreet is the small town shopkeeper mentality that drives the war on the homeless here. Larry shares that attitude and I think he should warm his heart a bit to care for less fortunate people.
Provide homeless people with a safe place to be and maybe not so many of them will be wandering your streets. It’s an idea.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 12:28 pm
“We’re reaching out to areas where people have been laid-off and want to get back to work, or are just looking for work in a new location,” he said. “We’ve hired sawmill workers in the past, but we need people with the skills to operate machines such as bleach plants and digesters that are specific to pulp mills.”
U.S. mill recruits at Harmac
July 5, 2008 at 12:29 pm
And thus we get to why he hates Main Street. He simply hates small town shopkeepers and Main Street works to support shopkeepers, thus Main Street is evil. OK, gotcha. The alternative to your scenario is simple. Small shopkeepers close up shop and get replaced by chain stores. Twenty years later Old Town is unrecognizeable.
Old Town is an outdoor mall. It will be filled by local independent stores or soulless national chains. Take your pick. Which one do you think cares more about the homeless?
Sheesh.
July 5, 2008 at 12:55 pm
I want the shopkeepers to stay. I want them to stop oppressing homeless people.
Nowhere have I said I hated shopkeepers.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 1:27 pm
Don’t equate wanting a good business enviornment with a negative attitude tword the homeless. These businesses support all kinds non-profit organizations who assist the most needy in our society. Many thousands of dollars are given by LOCAL business people each year. Where does this attitude of disliking people who work hard to get ahead come from? I don’t know any Scrooges in downtown.
Main Street is funded by the City’s redevelopment fund which gives low interest loans to promote business in the district. They also make some money from the sale of tickets to “A Taste of Main Street” and booth fees from vendors at the 4th of July street fair in Old Town. The organization does a lot with a very small budget. Some
one mentioned they didn’t like tourist oriented products being sold in Old Town. Do you know that tourist dollars amount to over 200 million every year to Humboldt County? The Tourists stay in our Motels and pay a TOT tax which funds the Visitors and Convention Bureau with what remains going to the city general fund. Tourists pay sales tax on what they buy, of which 1% of the 7.25% goes to the city general fund. It is hard to see where the beef is, don’t you think.
July 5, 2008 at 1:31 pm
How are shopkeepers oppressing the homeless, Bill?
July 5, 2008 at 1:40 pm
They have empowered through the City Council the police department and private security forces to harass homeless people whereever they are especially in Old Town. This harassment is ongoing. This is why people in other parts of town have homeless problems that they haven’t experienced before, especially on the west side.
It is Eureka Main street that suggested and has maintained support for private armed security to patrol Old Town. They were never authorized to carry arms or to use force or to arrest anyone but they have been doing so.
Yes I am aware that several years ago under former Chief Douglas things were so bad that there wasn’t even one officer to patrol the city at night. That’s when you should have fixed the police department, and maybe a few people would still be alive today as well. Instead of fixing the department though you hired a private security guard.
If the Eureka Police Department is so much improved now there is no excuse to be spending $12,000 per month on a private security service. Maybe Charlotte McDonald will acknowlege the truth of this.
I would think that Garr Nielsen might not like this too much, it makes the Department look kinda ineffective don’t you think?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 1:48 pm
I have no problem with the TOT tax as long as it does not apply after 6 days. After 6 days you are living in your motel room and you should pay no more room tax.
How long do you collect the TOT tax for here? I am not sure.
There are significant numbers of people right here in Eureka attempting to live in motel rooms at a cost to them of $700-$1100 per month and to expect them to pay ANY tax on top of that borders on the criminal.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 1:57 pm
$200 million tourists dollars = 1 very crappy economy. Tourist economies are service economies and will never bring in living wage jobs, only minimum wage jobs.
The tourist and convention bureau is a waste of money. Wake up! You live in one of the most beautiful areas on this planet. People will come here anyway. You don’t need to advertise, LOL.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Bill, the shopowners hate the homeless feces they have to hose out of their doorways. It’s that simple. Customers don’t like the smell, and they don’t want to have to step over it to get in the store. People who want to eat lunch don’t want their appetites ruined by that crap. It’s that simple.
So they ask the police, who are people the townspeople have hired to do this kind of thing so that they do not have to, to do it.
Take away the police, and the people and shopowners will still have to do it.
Whose fault is it? It is not the shopowners. Not the police. And not the people of the town.
If the homeless want the rights of good citizens, they have to act like good citizens. Some do. Some do not. But I doubt they stand there and help the shopowner hose away the mess.
July 5, 2008 at 5:19 pm
Yes Rose,
We all get it that we don’t want to eat lunch in a toilet. I don’t want to either. Wanting a nice atmosphere for your business is completely understandable. Siccing armed police on helpless human beings is not an acceptable solution.
At the same time, do you agree that we need public restrooms in Old Town? Or are you happy with the current solution? (None.) Seems to me a few portapotties would cut down on the feces problem. Just maybe. Maybe it would even provide a little dignity for our fellow human beings. Maybe a tourist would find it useful even.
Thank you Rose, though you and I will rarely agree at least you offer rational debate. I would be happy to have a cordial cup of coffee and friendly debate anytime.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 5:22 pm
When did they close the public restroom in Old Town? Wouldn’t that have been marked with a news report? Did I miss it, or is Bill on yet another misinformed rant? Maybe Reagan closed it.
July 5, 2008 at 5:27 pm
It may have been open this weekend (didn’t notice) but it has been almost always locked for several months. Remember those tourists I helped a couple of weeks ago? The ones complaining about the locked restroom?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 5:28 pm
If you think the Eureka Reporter or the Times-Standard reports on locked restrooms well hmmmm.
LOL
July 5, 2008 at 5:29 pm
It’s not open 24 hours a day Bill.
And you’ll hate hearing who pays for maintenance and cleaning of the restroom. All the people you hate provide all the things you love and I bet it just drives you mad.
July 5, 2008 at 5:31 pm
Yes, actually, it would be front page news. Do you even read our daily newspapers?
July 5, 2008 at 5:32 pm
Well how come then when I reported it here a couple of weeks ago it didn’t show up on the front page of the papers?
I thought the local reporters read this blog.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 5:33 pm
If you find the restroom closed during normal business hours, chances are it has been significantly trashed or damaged by, well, you’ll hate me for telling you which type of person most frequently vandalizes restrooms. It ain’t hoodlum teens.
July 5, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Because it’s not permanently closed and newspapers don’t take the word of blog comments as Gospel. Duh.
July 5, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Even when it is open you wouldn’t want to send anyone you know inside. And what happened to all the benches in Old Town
July 5, 2008 at 5:36 pm
That was my point above, when I said “if you think the newspapers will report on…”
It is just not that important a bit of news. I wouldn’t expect them to print it.
Duh.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 5:37 pm
Mike, the haters will say they took the benches away to stop the homeless from sleeping on them. Not so. They could install benches with dividers that make it impossible to sleep upon.
No… people simply don’t like sitting on something that smells like piss, plain and simple.
July 5, 2008 at 5:37 pm
So no one is actually disputing that it has been closed. We are only disputing whether or not the newspapers should have reported it? I see.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 5:38 pm
Well, here’s a clue then. If they closed the public bathroom, Tad would got apesh*t and it would be front page news. Public restrooms are always front page news. They have been for some years now in Humboldt County.
July 5, 2008 at 5:39 pm
Actually, I did. Try reading the thread you are participating in. It is OPEN and you are ranting about nothing, again.
July 5, 2008 at 5:41 pm
Change your rant to being about the restroom not being open 24 hours.
July 5, 2008 at 5:45 pm
And what about the restroom at the boat landing or the one in the Adorni?
July 5, 2008 at 5:46 pm
Actually I asked Rose a civil question, it was not a rant. I asked her if she would agree that we need some portapotties in Old Town and if she agreed that the feces situation might be alleviated that way.
What do you think, yes or no?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 6:00 pm
I get it.
The small group of fearful among you are afraid that if we deploy a half dozen portapotties in Old Town that they will be a magnet for homeless in other towns and states when they hear about it and they will all come here to piss.
And that will lead in turn to a massive drain on our already strained social services.
I guess there is a price to be paid for not having feces on your sidewalks. Its up to you. Be brave.
have a peaceful day
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 6:07 pm
Why deploy port-a-potties when we have a perfectly good mostly vandalism-proof permanent solution? Your idea costs gobs more money. Wasted money. And this coming from you, the person so concerned about taxpayer money being spent wisely. Well, this time spend your own money if you want to waste it duplicating existing efforts.
July 5, 2008 at 6:09 pm
The feces problem would be alleviated if people stopped pooping on the streets. Go to a public restroom. They are all over town. A person pooping in a commercial district in Eureka is pooping there because he wants to. Period. Anyone who tells you different is smoking doobes or is Tad.
July 5, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Damn, misspelled doobies. Blew my street cred.
July 5, 2008 at 6:10 pm
How much does the city spend every year on the Gazebo restroom and how much does a portapottie cost per year? I am willing to be educated.
All I want is to see adequate public sanitation in Old Town at the best price for the taxpayers.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 6:13 pm
Put it to a vote. The taxpayers don’t want to poop in a port-a-potty. Period.
I welcome the vote. You will lose so hard.
July 5, 2008 at 6:14 pm
Great 6:09 could we have a list of them? All those public restrooms all over town? I will print them up and hand them out.
It would be great if you could indicate hours of open/close etc.
Just post it right here.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 6:16 pm
For that matter, non-taxpayers don’t want to poop in a port-a-potty. I venture to say, outside of Arcata, even the homeless prefer a real pooping facility to a port-a-potty.
I say outside of Arcata because when the plaza merchants gathered to discuss building a permanent public restroom downtown — paid for on their own dime, not the city’s or the taxpayer’s dime — homeless activists picketed and called ‘em Nazis. Do you ever call people Nazis, Bill?
July 5, 2008 at 6:17 pm
I call Neocon Republicans fascists. Yes.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 6:18 pm
Oh Bill, don’t be silly. If such a list existed, you would assail taxpayer money being spent that way. It does sound like a wonderful volunteer project though. Maybe you should ask the Independent Business Alliance to compile the list.
July 5, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Republicans are from Mars,
Democrats are from Venus,
and Neocons are from Uranus.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 6:20 pm
I’d start with every fast food joint, they are at both ends of town and Starbucks and others are in the middle. There are many more than that, but restaurants are required to provide public restrooms and fast food is easy to find.
July 5, 2008 at 6:20 pm
I’m not sure what you think I am Bill, but I’m a lifelong Democrat.
July 5, 2008 at 6:21 pm
Bill went from a few to half a dozen portapotties in less than an hour. I don’t understand why anyone would defecate or urinate in a business doorway with or without other facilities. There are places where one could relieve themselves without being that disgusting and obnoxious.
July 5, 2008 at 6:23 pm
It’s called common, malicious vandalism. As you indicate, there are many more discrete and environmentally friendly places to poop. They poop on doorsteps to be ***holes. Period. Such a person won’t use a port-a-potty or the existing public restrooms. Some people are beyond help, but that won’t stop Bill from wasting taxpayer money trying to fight the future.
July 5, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I love debating Bill. He comes in with a set of bogus information and argues it tooth and nail until giving up with some sort of astronomy poem. I wish he included a poem when it gives up on all his misinformed rants. I wish he spoke at public meetings. He’d be a hoot to watch as officials shake their heads in disbelief.
July 5, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Let me make this clear. You asked me if I ever called people “Nazis” and I replied (acknowleged) that I refer sometimes to the small Neocon death cult type of Republicans as “fascists”. I did not call you a fascist, a nazi, a neocon, a republican or a democrat. I simply answered your question.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 7:02 pm
I didn’t say you called anyone a Nazi. You just remind me of people who call other people Nazis.
Fascists, Nazis. Poe-tay-toe, puh-tah-toe.
July 5, 2008 at 7:07 pm
6:25, I speak often at Eureka City Council and when the homeless campground is put on the agenda I will try to come speak again. I have also spoken several times at the BOS and have been interviewed by both newspapers and a radio station. I am not that shy.
You just come on down and have your say too i am fine with that.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 7:12 pm
Well Nazis and fascists aren’t exactly the same thing. I think the Nazis started out as a left wing workers movement but soon deviated into extreme nationalism and thuggery. Finally they sold out to the corporatists and fascism became melded with Nazism. Like Italy with the added touch of racial hatred.
Whether or not our domestic neocons are Nazis or not is a question, but it is almost undeniable that they are fascists.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 7:15 pm
well Bill, you seem to be obsessed with potty talk and the stuff that goes in them. The restrooms were closed because they were misused. People were shooting up and passing out in them. They were overflowing with stuff crammed into them. Even the stainless steel fixtures couldn’t hold up to the abuse. Maybe Bill will volunteer to be the old town toilet monitor, and if he does, he will soon be screaming for a gun to do his job. Why don’t you go pick on Henderson Center for a while.
I am a lifelong Democrat too, and Bill, you are no Democrat that I would recognize. A not so subtle reference made by Mondale some years ago. Have a peaceful day.
July 5, 2008 at 7:18 pm
I have never claimed to be a Democrat. I am a libertarian socialist.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 7:19 pm
But at least now we get the truth: they have been closed.
thank you
and have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 7:19 pm
I bet Bill loves debating the great anonymous.
Perhaps you think Bill should hide all his “rants” under the moniker “anonymous” — like you do — so they can’t be so easily dismissed.
But that would spoil your fun as the anonymous blog patrol.
July 5, 2008 at 7:21 pm
I actually do enjoy politics, Heraldo. I like the idea of doing something positive for my community.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 7:30 pm
No Heraldo, you have me all wrong. Thanks though. I love the smarmy attitude you give me.
July 5, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Oh, and Heraldo, you’re the last person who should be chastising someone for being anonymous. If you don’t like it, don’t allow anonymous comments. Instead, you create a situation and then beat up on people who use what you gave them. Nice. Very nice.
July 5, 2008 at 7:48 pm
There’s a difference between anonymity and a pseudonym, but you know that.
If you feel “beat up” it’s understandable why you keep yourself anonymous.
July 5, 2008 at 7:56 pm
Tell me Bill, what have you done for “your” community? I read very little from you that would translate to bettering “our” community. Why don’t you run for council where real decisions are made, good or bad, they are trying to find solutions to real problems.
Yes the restrooms were closed, and for good reason. I would say to you again, volunteer to be the restroom monitor and then we’ll see what you have to say. The Adorni had to close their restrooms for the same reasons. Those of us who pay to use the adorni couldn’t stand to go in them and it was too far to go home to use a clean facility.
July 5, 2008 at 8:01 pm
If I could find an apartment in Polly Endert’s district I might do it. But there may be a good progressive candidate there already, maybe a good progressive dem or green. Let’s hope so. I would support him or her if he or she were genuine.
And thank you for admitting the truth about the restroom closures. In truth, there are no public restrooms most of the time in Old Town. That’s why we need some portapotties.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Now that the situation at the Gazebo toilets and the Adorni toilets are public knowlege let’s see if it makes the “front page” in the next two days, as we have been assured it will. I hope it does.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 8:15 pm
One thing I do positive for my community is that I play songs for people. People see me walking around with my guitar and ask me to play them a song.
I ask them whether they like country, rock or folk, maybe ask them what kind of mood they are in. Then I give them the best music I can give them for five minutes or so. I don’t ask them if they are rich or poor. I share my music with everyone.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 8:21 pm
Likewise, I’m sure.
July 5, 2008 at 8:22 pm
BREAKING… Gazebo toilet still open to the public. Film at 11.
Yeah, I’m sure it will be big news.
July 5, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Ahh yes, because everyone reads blogs it must be public knowledge. Technically, I tip my hat to you good sir.
Heraldo will need to take a picture of the closed restrooms and write them up for the delicious scoop if you want to see it covered in the newspaper. I don’t think our intrepid reporters read deep into every thread.
July 5, 2008 at 8:44 pm
When restrooms are outlawed only outlaws will have restrooms.
July 5, 2008 at 8:59 pm
Bill – you should bring this issue to the Eureka Parks and Open Space Commission.
July 5, 2008 at 9:08 pm
Hi Mike,
Thanks for your suggestion, but would they be in charge of portapotties in Old Town?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 9:32 pm
So is the issue that there are no public restrooms in Old Town and / or they lock them at night? Is the defecation in business doorways retaliatory because the businesses don’t force the city to put in public restrooms or did that occur even when there were public restrooms?
July 5, 2008 at 9:35 pm
All this potty talk makes me want to go. Lets see, shall I pee on the side of some building in old town or poop in a doorway. Oh the decisions of life. Maybe I’ll stop at an old watering hole, darn, Jimmy Dunn’s closed. When did that happen? I must have been in a haze or something and missed it. The $8 a shot at the Pearl is out of my reach so it’s off to the coffee shop for a free dump. No, too messing in there many times, must be over used by the down and out of it. How about over the rail at the boardwalk? No, that won’t work either, as the old town cop is watching that place like a hawk. Can’t even shot up or have a joint in public anymore. The situation is really getting desperate around here.
Oh, I think I have found the ultimate solution. I’ll get a job and then rent an apartment—with a bathroom. What a concept! I sure hope I can hold it for a little while longer. If I can just get it together, I’ll work for a couple of months and then quit and get unemployment. I should be able to make the rent for a while and then I’ll get some of my friends on GR to move in with me. We’ll make it just fine, until the landlord kicks us out for trashing the place. All this brain work is making me really tired. That alley looks like a good place to take a leak.
July 5, 2008 at 9:37 pm
Jane,
I think those kinds of unfortunate things will happen occasionally no matter what as long as mentally ill people are forced to sleep under bushes and not allowed any dignified place to relieve themselves.
But I don’t think they are in general retaliatory. I don’t think that the thinking process is that clear.
The portion of the homeless population that are clear thinking (a majority) would never trash a restroom or vandalize a business.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Are the mentally ill not allowed at the shelter, Bill? I don’t understand your use of “forced.” Aren’t there more programs available to help the mentally ill than the general male homeless population? If the mentally ill homeless are pooping in doorways rather than alleys, why do you think they would use portapotties rather than doorways? How would a homeless run campground deal with the problems inherent with the homeless mentally ill?
July 5, 2008 at 10:22 pm
Hi Jane,
Some people, both men and women, who act out are barred from the mission. When I say “forced” I mean it in the sense that they literally have no other choice. They have no money and no hope of gaining employment.
Remember we are having this conversation because the bathrooms downtown are closed. People (mentally ill and mentally healthy) poop outside someplace because there is literally no place inside to poop.
A campground probably won’t help much for people with severe mental impairments. But it will serve that population that is still mentally coherent but just needs a breathing space. People with severe mental imairments need direct housing assistance.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 5, 2008 at 10:58 pm
Rose Says: July 5, 2008 at 5:10 pm
“If the homeless want the rights of good citizens, they have to act like good citizens. Some do. Some do not.”
Rose,
It seems as if you’re saying that unless ALL homeless people act like good citizens, then all of them, good citizens or not, should be punished by not having a public restroom to use. That doesn’t seem fair, we generally don’t hold members of other groups to that “group guilt/group justice” standard. Perhaps you didn’t mean it that way, so I want to give you the opportunity to clarify.
July 5, 2008 at 11:00 pm
By the way, providing a few reasonably clean, vandalism-proof public restrooms is just not that hard to do. Most cities, including much larger ones and ones with much larger homeless populations, provide public restrooms at their downtown parks or other public spaces. Hours vary, but most larger cities have them open 24 hours. It does help cut down on the old poop in the doorway situation.
I find it a bit weird that some folks are advocating that the homeless should just be using the restrooms at various businesses, fast-food or otherwise. And one person seemed to suggest that they should be pooping in the alleys instead of in the doorways.
But I have a feeling that the business owners with restrooms in their establisments probably aren’t too happy about that de facto solution either – they don’t want more homeless folks coming in to poop or take a “bird bath” in their sinks. And who wants poop in their alley? I’m guessing that the same people pointing out these “alternatives” are the first to complain when homeless folks actually avail themselves of these options. And “retaliatory pooping?” C’mon, really?
July 5, 2008 at 11:37 pm
I’m still looking for that perfect place to have my poop. I’ve been to all the places i can think of, at least at night I can use the gazebo fountain. It’s quiet then with only a renter or two to complain. It just hit me, there are great daytime restrooms at CITY HALL. They are kept very clean. And then there is RCAA in that beautiful victorian on G St. Then there are all the county social service offices at 5th and F St. Problem solved!
July 6, 2008 at 12:02 am
Bill, I do agree that we need public restrooms in Old Town, and every other town. Not just for homeless. Seems to me we ought to be able to do better than portapotties, BUT they do have one advantage, they get cleaned. If you ever had to take your kid into that one by the Gazebo, you’d agree that it might as well not even be there. Seems to me they’d need to be in existing businesses and building, and there’d have to be some sort of compensation to the business for providing the service and shouldering the burden of cleanup. And you’d have to grant them some sort of substantive liability waiver, because right now they can’t afford the risks.
You’d also have to allow, Bill, that if someone abuses the situation and is shooting up, the business owner is justified to call the cops. And the cops shouldn’t be looked at as enemies because they are, as I mentioned above, just some fellow townspeople who have agreed to do what the other citizens and businesspeople cannot, or would rather not, and that is help keep order.
Unfortunately sleeping on the benches turned into living on the benches, defecating near the benches, panhandling on and around the benches, dogs and shopping carts and worse around the benches and the end of a nice green area in Old Town, and the same thing happens everywhere. So, again, the merchants said, we have had enough. OUr customers are being hassled, the dogs are a problem, etc, etc, etc… Making them nice doesn’t seem to work, either, weren’t the ones in SF designed by some fancy French firm – I forget.
I went to Montana last summer – no homeless. Where were they? The street corner franchise up there is wide-open. Why is that? The cold weather? Zero tolerance? It was a striking difference.
A cordial cup of coffee and friendly debate anytime, Bill. Lotta the world’s problems get solved every day that way. One’f these days.
July 6, 2008 at 6:55 am
Sorry Pooper, but Bill excused pooping in doorways because there aren’t any restrooms as if that was the only other option, then blamed it on the mentally ill. I think most people would agree that pooping in someone’s doorway is the most obnoxious option and leads one to ask WHY are they pooping in doorways rather than in a less conspicuous location. Most people have to relieve themselves outdoors at some point in their lives and they don’t do it on someone’s doorstep.
July 6, 2008 at 7:09 am
Hello Jane,
I am not defending acts of vandalism, I am trying to explain them. These kinds of situations disturb almost anyone, Republican, Green or Democrat, rich or poor.
The vast majority of homeless people do not vandalize property or use feces as a statement. I don’t “blame” mentally ill people. They are beyond blame, they need help.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 7:16 am
Let’s put it this way: Public restrooms are rare and the homeless population is devastated when one of these places is trashed. The vast majority of homeless people will not trash the only place they have to shit or wash their face and hands. That is silly.
But there are sadly some people out there who don’t know that they are standing in someone’s doorway. They are human beings but they are lost.
Of course I have been to the restroom at the Gazebo. It is often a mess. It is often scary. It must be expensive to maintain.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 7:47 am
I don’t envision a line of portapotties on the Gazebo. I envision a half dozen or so portapotties scattered through Old Town in back alleys on unused corners of private business lots. They would be tucked away out of sight. This would of course need the cooperation of local businesses. Of course liability would need to be addressed.
This solution, a half dozen pps would provide dignity and sanitation for all of us at much less cost than maintaining fancy pissoir.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 8:06 am
I give kudos to Old Town Coffee and Chocolates. They are pretty tolerant of people most of the time but it is clear that the situation sometimes puts a strain on their business. How is it fair to expect Old Town Coffee and Chocolates to pick up the burden that the city should be shouldering itself? That isn’t fair either.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 8:13 am
Splitting hairs Bill. On the one hand you say that it is because there aren’t any public toilets and on the other you say that the mentally ill homeless don’t know where they are defecating. Will public toilets stop the pooping in doorways or not? If it will stop it, then the pooping is deliberate, obnoxious behavior targeting the businesses which “oppress” the homeless by not providing them toilet facilities. If it won’t stop it, then why should businesses fund the public toilets and still have to clean up feces on their doorsteps?
July 6, 2008 at 8:21 am
Hello Jane,
Well how many of these incidents are we talking about? I heard of one that happened last year sometime on 2nd street. This is not an epidemic is it?
Sure it is possible that a person could engage in “retaliatory pooping” as it has been characterized, but I don’t think it is very likely at all. I think it was just a random act by someone who has mental issues or was extremely drunk or drugged out.
If there have been more than that one incident I would like to know, probably that would be front page news.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 8:25 am
I don’t think they report on doorstep pooping any more than they report on public restroom closings Bill. It is a problem that Old Town businesses complain about. Making light of it, like every other concern raised about what would be effective in dealing with the homeless problem, doesn’t serve your cause well.
July 6, 2008 at 8:28 am
Hello Jane,
Well how about you? Do you have any other incidents to report other than the single incident on 2nd St.?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 8:30 am
I don’t work or own a business in Old Town, Bill. I have only heard about the problem. While it is possible that there has only been one instance of feces found in a doorway, there are lots of store owners who are complaining about it so I doubt it is an isolated incident.
July 6, 2008 at 8:35 am
Hello Jane,
Well if there has only been one incident then it is a non-problem isn’t it?
So why deny dignity for our homeless population and santitation for all the rest of us for the acts of one single individual last year. It just doesn’t make any sense.
have a peaceful day,
Billl
July 6, 2008 at 8:42 am
If there were only one incident I doubt there would be so much complaining from the Old Town business owners, Bill. You claimed they are oppressing the homeless but didn’t say which businesses or how they were oppressing them other than to complain about the lack of toilet facilities. Why would they oppress harmless people who cause them no trouble?
July 6, 2008 at 8:45 am
It’s ironic because the absolute LAST thing you will find in Larry Glass’ record store is an independent record.
150 copies of Madonna – sure… but an indy record???
“that’s a special order – and it needs to be prepaid. If we stocked music on INDY labels there would be less room for Madonna”
-typical Works employee
July 6, 2008 at 8:48 am
The downtown business owners have empowered the police department to drive the homeless out of Old Town and into other places in town like the West side. This was done throught the city council.
Jane, are the old town business owners complaining to YOU? You said you don’t work or live in old town, so maybe you work for the City of Eureka? If they are complaining to you, then please pass some of them along.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 8:56 am
Why would they want to drive the homeless out? What excuses did they give to the city council to “empower” the police to drive the homeless out of Old Town? You seem to be claiming that they are oppressing the homeless for no reason but just to be dicks.
Where I work is irrelevant and I only mentioned that I don’t work in Old Town so you would understand I am not an “oppressor” who just hates the homeless. That businesses in Old Town complain about the filth and harrassment of their customers by the homeless with aggressive panhandling and the fear of the mentally ill is common knowledge to anyone who shops in Old Town.
July 6, 2008 at 9:03 am
I am not saying that they are oppressing the homeless just to be dicks. A few of the business owners have that mind set, but not many. Most business owners are oppressing the homeless because of what you alluded to, fear. They fear the homeless both directly and fear the effect that the homeless will have on their business.
So no, I don’t say that. Fear is real, I have felt fear in my life and when people tell me they are afraid i don’t discount it.
It is not an easy problem. I really think that if there is a homeless camp where people have a secure place to be when they are not working instead of hanging on some sidewalk then the problem might diminish a bit. Don’t you think? Really I think I am proposing rational logical and cost-effective solutions to real problems.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 9:08 am
Oh really? Who? Which ones?
July 6, 2008 at 9:11 am
The ones that post here anonymously.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 9:16 am
Peace be with you Jane
I can only give you my observations. In Arcata several years ago we have a homeless task force, where we spent long hours hearing about the shit in the door ways of Arcata busynesses. With little inquiry I learned all the shit stories were the same story. It seems when one busyness owner gets shit on they all hear the story (probably at downtown busyness org meetings) then repeat it as many times as they each can to paint the homeless as a group.
This doesn’t mean people don’t shit on their door ways, it just means it is rarer then the homeless bigots wish to portray it. It might be lack of toilets during the wee hours, it might be crazy of drunk people, it might be the “revenge shit,” but in Arcata it is definitely the fault of the city for not having public restrooms. Most of the times when one finds shit on the ground it is not the type of shit that its previous owner could of “held.” I mean it was going to come out when it did, on the ground or in the person’s pants.
How they are oppressing them is the letter circulated by “the Chamber of Commerce and the cops put out to businesses in that area, so they could tell people that they are being arresting, harassed, “moved along”, and having their possessions stolen etc DUE TO COMPLAINTS BY BUSINESS AND LAND OWNERS!” The “security guards, paid by the busyness owners, are only there to run the homeless out of their downtown. Entire squads of police are dedicated to running homeless out of town. And a whole slew of selectively enforced ordinances are specifically on the books just to target homeless. The busyness owners refer to homeless as transients, and transient is the word the commonly interchange with the work criminal.
Destroyed bathrooms are not necessarily the work of the unhoused. I knew many homeless back when the Arcata bus station bathroom got trashed and locked forever. All the witnesses I talked to said the person who took a skate board and smashed up the bathroom was housed. I know that doesn’t prove homeless don’t do the same thing, but it does show that if they do they are not the only one. Also police know how to let “trouble makers” continue to cause trouble to blame the homeless. I have seen more then one occasion where a trouble maker (usually drunk and violent) seemed obsessed with joining homeless in order to implicate them in his trouble making, while cops watch on unconcerned.
Equal protection under the law is a constitutional right. When cops manipulate crime in order to justify their war on the homeless, even to the point where homeless get hurt, then there is an obvious failure of equal protection.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 9:18 am
Peace
I mean “word criminal”
love
tad
July 6, 2008 at 9:22 am
I agree that a campground is a reasonable solution, once the valid concerns over it being a magnet to out of the area homeless have been addressed and a pre-emptive solution found as well as a plan as to how it will be administered and by who and how it will be funded. How that will address the problems of aggressive panhandling or the mentally ill frightening people, I don’t have a clue.
July 6, 2008 at 9:23 am
Thank you Jane Doe.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 9:44 am
That’s simply not true. I know several business owners who have personally cleaned up shit or called the Endeavor. Several meaning three. Two personally cleaned. One called.
Tad, don’t make stuff up, especially stuff that can swiftly be proven false. Just ask the Endeavor. They have a cleanup crew well acquainted with the occasional poop.
July 6, 2008 at 10:02 am
Peace be with you 9:44
What the fuck ever. You say something is a lie in a sentence and it takes a dissertation to rebuke it. I was at all the task force meetings and saw at least half a dozen people complain about the same shit story. I’m sure, like I said in my last post, that that was not the only shit incident to ever happen. But I am also sure that the busyness owners exploit each shit incident to smear (no pun intended) the homeless. Its too bad that Rob Amerman lied to us and didn’t broadcast the meetings like he said he was. Then you too could see what I saw. But I guess what Bill, and I are trying to say is it is “the OCCASIONAL shit,” not the shit everywhere others are trying to make it out to be. Plus Arcata has intentionally refused to provide toilets, just because a homeless person might shit in them – what a crock.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 10:12 am
Sorry, but when I see you trying to smear the good work of Endeavor volunteers, I must speak up.
July 6, 2008 at 10:20 am
Peace be with you
What a piece of shit you are. I in no way shape or form did I smear the “Endeavor Volunteers.” You are just a big fucking liar! Trying to spin your shit stories, and “smear the good work of Endeavor volunteer” is the best you can do.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 10:28 am
I am merely speaking truth to power. The Endeavor does a great job big and small. They have certainly cleaned up poop more than your one-time-only claim. MANY more times.
I attended the fourth of july festival on the plaza and witnessed a great deal of profanity and drunken behavior in front of children from Arcata residents, presumably all housed.
The only polite and courteous person I encountered during my one hour there (I left pretty much out of disgust) was an Endeavor employee who was picking up trash left by thoughtless festival attendees around a bench at one of the plaza corners. The man offered and then did dispose of my empty food plate. Where else on Earth would anyone get that kind of service at a public event?
And Endeavor employees were making quick work of garbage cans before they got filled. That is in contrast to plaza events of old where trash cans would quickly overflow into hazardous spills you had to navigate around.
These are good people and I won’t have you diminish their work by claiming they don’t do what they do. These thoughtful homeless people do clean up poop left by thoughtLESS homeless people. Again and again. I stand up to your anti-Endeavor campaign. We all should.
July 6, 2008 at 10:35 am
There’s just no good reason why the City of Eureka could not maintain a reasonably clean public bathroom there by the Gazebo in Old Town, and perhaps a couple more in other locations. It ain’t rocket science, it’s just a matter of priorities. If you want a public bathroom to be reasonably clean, it must be cleaned a few times a day. It’s hard to believe that paying for a whole bunch of portapotties is going to be cheaper than simply hiring a cleaning company to clean the public restrooms 3 or 4 times per day. Making these restrooms virtually indestructable just means using all stainless-steel fixtures rather than porcelain toilets and sinks. But if portapotties are easier to deal with or are actually cheaper, that would be fine, too. They could be placed behind small wooden fence “screens” to reduce the eyesore aspect also.
I’m sure that the poop in the doorway has happened more than once, but I’m also sure it’s pretty rare. But when it does happen to a particular shopkeeper then, yes, naturally the story spreads fast, and far and wide. I don’t attribute this to ill will on the part of the shopkeepers, as in them wanting to paint all homeless people as doorway crappers. It’s just human nature to pass along stories of worst case scenarios because they are memorable and worrisome. So that 2nd street doorway poop has become “legendary” and some are now acting as if this is an everyday occurance. I really doubt that – if it was, you’d probably see the shopkeepers in the forefront of those calling for more and better public restrooms.
Old Town Coffee and Chocolates shouldn’t have to shoulder the burden of providing the clean restrooms that the City of Eureka isn’t providing. Everyone, from local shoppers, to tourists, to homeless folks to those with “irritable bowel syndrome” who are having a sudden attack of “can’t hold it” benefit from the presence of a few reasonably clean public restrooms. It’s high time that the city made this more of a priority, and not just because of the legendary 2nd street doorway poop,
July 6, 2008 at 10:39 am
Your love eternal is less than convincing after calling someone a piece of shit, Tad.
July 6, 2008 at 10:44 am
Perhaps the producer of that famous 2nd street doorway poop was the real culprit behind the Great Imaginary Cholera Epidemic of 2008 that we heard so much about on the Code Enforcement threads!
July 6, 2008 at 10:45 am
Peace be with you
NO you are lying! You are spinning bullshit and every one can read it for themselves. I said the BUSYNESS owners are liars, I said nothing about the Endeavor, nor did I refer to any of the many good works they do. It is you who took one thing and called it something else. Tell us why you would completely make shit up to disrupt? Yes Endeavor volunteers clean up the down town regularly. They have been the laborers at oyster festival for years.
How many times have you volunteered at the Endeavor? How hard did you fight to keep the Endeavor open? How do you know that shit left in the middle of the night is from homeless? You are less then convincing playing both sides of the fence like you are.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 10:47 am
I don’t know how I can continue debating someone who vacillates between potty mouth rants and exploring alternate realities.
July 6, 2008 at 10:48 am
Peace be with you Jane
But love the piece of shit none the less.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 10:52 am
Peace be with you
Your not debating, your accusing me of saying things I didn’t say. That’s called LYING. What you should of written is:
“I don’t know how I can continue [lying about] someone who vacillates between pointing out [my lying] and telling it like it is.”
We’ll make an honest person of you yet.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 10:54 am
9:16 Tad:
10:45 Tad:
Of course you said nothing about the Endeavor because it would divulge your deception. The Endeavor has cleaned up lots of doorstep poop, lots more than one time. You intentionally diminish their work. You are on record many times speaking evil about the Endeavor and its employees. Acknowledging the Endeavor’s good works would nullify your poop deception.
July 6, 2008 at 10:59 am
Some unsolicited advice:
Don’t take the bait, Tad. Trust that the reader can tell that your anonymous tormenter is twisting your words. The more you respond with an angry, detailed response, the more they are laughing and throwing out more bait. It’s a silly little game that you can’t win. Just stick to trying to keep the discussion moving forward in a positive direction. This is just a little piece of friendly advice from one who has taken the bait too often in the past, but now learned to (usually) let that bait pass by without biting.
July 6, 2008 at 10:59 am
Step 1. Thoughtful Endeavor employees clean up lots of poop throughout the years left by thoughtless homeless, maybe even some housed drunkards. Not an every day occurrence, but it really adds up over the months and years.
Step 2. Someone claims there has only been one poop incident.
Step 3. The Endeavor’s public works are successfully marginalized.
Bravo. Mission accomplished.
July 6, 2008 at 11:09 am
I apologize Tad. I am a “piece of shit” and a “big fucking liar” just “trying to spin” my “shit stories,” as you say. I don’t know why I ever attempted to counter the wisdom of you words. You saw right through my cunning deception.
July 6, 2008 at 11:17 am
Peace be with you
Not only are you a liar, but you are really grasping at straws to disprove your lies. Whether the Endeavor cleaned up the doorway shit spoke of over and over again at the homeless task force meetings has nothing to do with the fact that the same shit story kept getting repeated over and over again at task force meetings. I have personally buried other peoples shit many times, not from door ways, but from inappropriate places none the less. You are trying to disprove what I say by distracting the truth onto some other topic that was/is not the topic at hand.
I think it would be good to discuss all the great things our community receives due to the Endeavor. When I first started volunteering at the Endeavor the sidewalk and street in front of the bars had thousands of cigarette butts on them. We swept them up every morning. When the farmers market had no bathrooms, because the busyness owners didn’t want the homeless to have a place to shit, the Endeavor opened it bathrooms on Saturdays to accommodate the housed farmers market customers. And of course we can’t forget the thousands of cold, hungry and tired people who the Endeavor picked up, dried off, fed and let rest. Or how about all the barricades set up every Saturday morning to block traffic at the farmers market. That is an interesting study. Over here you have homeless setting up your plaza, and over their you have cops running homeless off the plaza. I support the heroic work of the Endeavor. I have participated in the work of the Endeavor. And I will continue to support the work of the Endeavor. Do you?, have you?, and will you?
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 11:21 am
Don’t be sore Tad. I apologized. While anyone could easily speak to someone who has worked with the Endeavor for several years to get down to the reality of the situation, I place my full faith and trust in your version of reality.
July 6, 2008 at 3:11 pm
SO, finally we have the final answer. The bathrooms in old town have been redesigned to be almost vandal proof and are open, For the time being, case closed. Of course Bill will add his wordy version after this which will have little to do with reality as most of us see it.
July 6, 2008 at 4:42 pm
Tad,
You are a sorry excuse as a human being. Couching your “peace be with you” and “love eternal” around “fuck you’s” and “nazis” to anyone you disagree with.
Go back to Arcata. Please.
July 6, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Not to Worry. After October, The Endeavor will be closed and stories about it will become history and legend, like South Spit and Clam beach.
John Shelter has already asked McKinleyville to consider having a homeless center. Lessons were learned from the Endeavor’s misguided policy of compassionate enabling. He carefully described how services would be limited to local people who cooperate with case management and perform community work.
Even the sh*ting problem is easier in McKinleyville. Hiller Park, a likely squat, is right next to the sewage treatment plant. So the unhoused there would have the option to hang their butts over the settling tank. Problem solved. And its just a short commute down the Hammond trail to “work” panhandlng on the Arcata plaza.
July 6, 2008 at 5:01 pm
Peace be with you Agent 4:42
Are you a cop or not? I’ve been researching disruptive tactics and Your’s are quite elementary. If we spend who knows how much in tax dollars for psych-ops on blog’s shouldn’t we at least get one with a minimum amount of skill? Oh well next time they operation southern sweep pay attention to how all those feds disrupt on the blog. They were way more tactful, and no where nearly as thinly veiled as you are.
Tip: When you tell me to go back to Arcata you should pretend like you were in agreement with me until this very moment. Example: “I really like you ,but now …”
You’ll catch on. The last guy they had was/is pretty bad too. That’s what makes me wonder if your a cop. Are you?
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 5:35 pm
What is it about facts that you have a problem with? Oh yeah, all the ones you use are the ones you make up.
July 6, 2008 at 6:03 pm
not a cop, tadly trashbag, and no, I dont like you.
You really need do a bit more emmmm “research”, like the kind that you show on your blog where you cite no references, citing only your lame point of view.
July 6, 2008 at 6:33 pm
Severe left wing wingnuts like Tadly and Bill need to realize how far out there they are when they throw the Nazi tag on most of those they disagree with.
Dudes – you would have been been put down, as in gassed, bullet to the brain or what have you, if Nazi scumfucks were in charge.
You lose the arguement whenever you toss that particular invective (”Nazi”) out there.
July 6, 2008 at 7:40 pm
Jane Doe 9:22am….You said a campground would be reasonable if and when 6 problems were addressed, below is my attempt to begin dialogue on these issues in the spirit of hope that we can have a campground committee formed soon that will seriously consider beginning a campground.
1. The Magnet effect: Set a limit of occupancy and avoid all advertising in the media, no opening ceremonies, etc. ALSO, have a fee on a sliding scale, all campers have a chore that they are responsible for and campership depends on cooperation in chore duties, etc.
2.Pre-emptive solution: do you mean like a fall back plan? This would be a committee decision.
3. Administrative duties: Committee decision, I think a group should be formed to keep the campground following the template that the committee founds. Homeless people, advocates, community members (no politicians).
4. Funding: donations, foundation grants, establishing a campground foundation, (no government grants, etc.)
5.How Campground will affect aggressive panhandling and mentally ill scaring the community: With people having space to be they will not be out in the public as often as now. Mentally ill will be looked after in a community that they live with.
Thanks for wanting to be a part of finding solutions to the most pressing social problem of our present time.
ROSE 12:02am……I wonder why the city shouldn’t be responsible for building and maintaining bathrooms with its public works program?…..I’m also wondering why The MAC doesn’t have showers and toilets open during the day and early evening for people to use that is managed by and maintained by MAC staff?……Or why RCAA doesn’t build a center that can do what the Endeavor does in Arcata, not feeding people but the other resources such as sending crews out to clean up trash and keep order on the Plaza (Gazebo) as much as is possible.
And I lived in Montana, the people there actually take care of homeless people and speed freaks, amazing isn’t it?
July 6, 2008 at 8:01 pm
Kate, you lose out with point number one – a limit of occupancy is something that those who didnt get a coveted slot would argue was arbiitrary and capricious.
To make my point, we already have such a limit – Zero. You obviously don’t like that number, but lets say that we limited occupancy at 100, or a number you like. What do we do with the 101st person who wants to camp?
Fact is, a democratic majority of Eurekan’s would vote against such a campground. It’s also pretty obvious that, given that Larry Glass has commented on this very thread, that he sees this and the challenge made for him to make this a Eureka City council agenda item, yet he has yet to do it. Again, Councilman Glass, put this on the agenda so we can see where the citizens of Eureka stand on this issue.
I would bet that the current occupancy limit of zero is what we would end up with.
July 6, 2008 at 8:23 pm
I certainly hope that people in Eureka are smarter than you are and have a basic understanding of the problem we are about to encounter as we take this civil liberties issue to the next level. If Eureka and Humboldt County continues along the course of 0 tolerance for a homeless campground such as you favor they will be inviting a lawsuit as well as alot of negative publicity that could hurt the tourist trade that is so valuable to our county. Anon 8:01 I suspect you are arguing from a fear base and have very little reason for that fear, only speculation, something that has gotten this country into big trouble economically and otherwise. A campground is humane, that is more right than your fear. I welcome the opportunity to have this on the agenda, it’s time to get down to the nitty gritty on this subject before more people come here from the mid west, and other areas of the country looking for places to live and work because of a natural disaster that has taken their homes and jobs. If this area is as attractive to homeless people as you say then shouldn’t we be prepared when they arrive? Just like the 30s and 40s people are on the move. In Free America it is legal to move around the country freely, if you try to interfere in freedom you come up against the Constitution and The Declaration of Independence, do you think about that? Have we learned nothing from the past?
July 6, 2008 at 9:15 pm
Peace be with you yo
I think you get uneasy when people point out the similarity between what is happening today and what was happening 80 years ago. I can understand it. You flop the truth around like it don’t matter. You attack everyone with a psychotic, delusional, rhetoric. Here’s an experiment to test your version of the truth. Push the “alt” key and the “f” at the same time. When the little box pops up type “nazi” in the box. Then push the “next” button until you find a comment by me prior to this one in which I use the term “nazi” or “nazis.” Guess what you found. Nothing, not one comment on this whole thread did I use the word nazi prior to this one. In fact you are the only one in this whole thread who brought up the term nazi. Bill tried to explain some things you obviously don’t know about nazism, but it was you who brought it up again and again and again and again. I know you are afraid of being exposed for who you are, but you are really the one making your control freak bigotry so damn obvious.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 10:04 pm
Once again Kate, you just toss off things like hoping that people are smarter than me, as opposed to a real answer to my question.
I will pose it again – what happens when the campground meets total occupancy? I only limited it to the very first point of discussion that you raised and deflated your argument, and all you can do is toss hurl off an insult.
If humboldt county and eureka keep up with their “zero tolerance” for a free homeless campground they are NOT making themselves a target for a lawsuit, rather they are doing what every other county in the country are doing.
Of course in free america it is legal to move around the country freely; HOWEVER, that has NOTHING to do with the homeless and whether or not they are entitled to a FREE campground,
And, TADLY, do you DENY you have labled those you have disagreed with as Nazis? So you haven’t done here on this thread. BFD, you’ve done it enough times on other threads that your reputation is well deserved. Bill frequently invokes the label as well.
As someone who’s grandfathers on both sides of the family fought against the Nazi’s, I say a hale and hearty screw you when you try and compare today with the events of eighty years ago in Germany. Our population will never allow that, and in January the Bushies will be gone and we will have our first African American president. Dont think anything in 20’s and 30’s Germany is comparable to that, your “research” notwithstanding.
July 6, 2008 at 10:21 pm
Anonymous 10:04…I must have gotten under your skin somehow because you keep saying the same thing over and over again, that I haven’t answered your question to you satisfaction when it is not that I didn’t not only answer it but i gave several ideas as to how we keep the population from being a problem. Not only I but Bill as well….
As for your explanation that because every other county is doing the it makes it right (current homeless raids) I am reminded of my children and their pleadings that I let them do something because all the other kids were doing it. I would not even consider that as valid reasoning, they had to come up with more persuasive inforamtion for me to agree with them. Do you think that is a wise policy?
Bush is not the problem so much as it is the effect he’s had on the minds and hearts of the American people, it will take decades to completely recover, if we ever do.
July 6, 2008 at 10:23 pm
Most of this thread is just verbal diarrhea and only serves to show where you are coming from. Maybe the city council will install public restrooms you can talk into, rather than sit on, so it can be flushed into the shredder. I think your time would be better spent doing a fund raiser to achieve your STATED ideals. You know, buy the land, tents, restrooms, food prep facilities, security, health care, insurance, meet all the codes, etc. Lets see how far you get. I”ll bet, not past your own front door. Or closer to the truth, I’ll bet you don’t get past your key boards. Kate mentioned Montana as having a good system. Move there. We are still free to move in the good old US of A.
July 6, 2008 at 10:25 pm
I hope that despite my spelling errors you will see the message I’ve sent in the spirit of understanding….
July 6, 2008 at 10:43 pm
A fundraiser is not necessary. We have the land, it’s public. What materials we don’t have to set up a campground can be found and meet the conditions decided upon in a court of law.
10:23… good luck with your diarrhea….
Montanas’ too cold, besides I’m a native of this monstrous state and won’t run from a fight to keep her free….
July 6, 2008 at 10:49 pm
Bill, I know of at least three businesses who have to deal with this problem on a regular (read that daily) basis. They don’t complain anymore, it happens so often no one listens to them anymore, IT sure as shit (no pun intended) doesn’t make it onto the pages of the paper… Headline: A business owner had to hose off the excrement left by last night’s impromptu tenant… no, Bill. People are just flat out tired of the grim task. Any sympathy they had long since vanished. You won’t hear about it, but it is why you meet with steely quiet, not arguing resistance and resentment and determination to remove that factor from their daily responsibilities. They have enough to deal with without dealing with someone’s literal shit.
You know what I mean? Let’s at least consider the rights of the businessowners not to have to deal with that. they have rights, too, do they not?
July 6, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Rose,
We are not asking for sympathy for homeless people in Old Town. We are asking that they have a dignified place to answer the call of nature. A few portapotties will do the chore inexpensively.
Without bathrooms where do you propose that people do this?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 6, 2008 at 11:00 pm
From what I understand from listening to people who jungle is that when a store owner finds shit on their door step it is a message that this store owner hates homeless people or some such thing, perhaps they didn’t have a restroom to share……this kind of behavior is often refered to passive-aggresive…..come on a public bathroom is necessary, this has become almost barbaric….
July 6, 2008 at 11:06 pm
By definition, kate, once they are living there, it is no longer a campground is it? Because a campground was designed for people who ARE moving around.
So let’s say you have a campground. Are there tents provided? Or cabins? Are you going to provide sleeping bags and everyone sleeps out under the stars or is it bring your own?
Is there going to be a common cooking area, or is each camper going to cook their own? Will they have refrigeration? Or coolers? Or a cold cellar to store stuff in? Where’s the food going to come from? Who is paying for that? Who is paying for the firewood for the campfires? Or is there indoor heat? If you have a common cooking area, with a cafeteria, who is going to cook? Since the campground is free, you can’t require work for the privilege, so are you going to pay someone? Who is going to pay for that?
The above discussion about toilet facilities also applies? Is it go wherever you feel like it? Or are there portapotties? Who pays for that? Or are there actual restrooms? Who pays for that? Is this new construction? Or are you talking about talking over some of the people’s recreational campgrounds?
Then, how will you replace that loss? With whose money, kate?
Oh, the money will all come form the people who work. The same ones who already have to clean up shit. The same ones who have to pay for all their OWN expenses, like food and firewood, and heat, and shelter… they have to pay for you, too. Why? Because you feel like it?
It may sound nice to you. Even if you could make it work, it doesn’t sound nice to me. It sounds like a ghetto, a concentration camp of sorts. A wretched place. Not happy, like a commune was supposed to be – and I don’t think even any of them survived.
July 6, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Here’s a current list of intentional communities. There’s over 200 in California alone.
July 6, 2008 at 11:18 pm
Here’s a thought, kate buy some land. By yourself, or with pooled money from a group of people who agree with you. That’s what the hippie college kids did when they came up here and formed communes. Stars in their eyes, Altruism all around. A great and grand experience and experiment.
Then reality sets in. The slackers. Those who take advantage of the others, resentment sets in, the few who do all the work begin to see that all is not as glorious as it sounded…
Are you going to have your own police force? You all hate the police so the answer should be no. So what are you going to do when there’s a drunken brawl? A tweaker with a vicious pit bull?
Oh? Will there be RULES? kate? No pitbulls? No drugs? Lights out at a certain time?
Bammo, There goes your crowd – back out on the streets where there are no rules to follow.
It’s been tried, kate, a million times over, a million different ways from Sunday. The only model that works is the model of society itself. Buckle down. do your part to contribute, It starts with taking care of yourself. Not expecting anyone else to do ti for you.
July 6, 2008 at 11:40 pm
THE FARM in Tennessee is the most successful commune still in existence today since beginning in 1971. Check out their website and many of your questions will be answered.
But I’m more concerned with what you did not say but rather implied in your questions. You’ve left no room in your questions for humane treatment of homeless people. It would just cost too much to do the right thing for homeless people.
I believe that a campground could be useful to the community as a prototype for an alternative energy lifestyle. We could use the technology that the HSU alternative energy dept. desins and studies to power the camp. It could be a classroom as well as a solution to a complicated problem. I’ve talked to many people who would like the opportunity to teach poor people crafts that could bring them incomes. I look forward to the opportunity to present this idea to city council. No money would be needed from the city or county, just land. Campers do the work along with volunteers. Don’t you realize Rose that right now the streets are the concentration camp, the ghetto. These campgrounds will not be mandatory places that homeless are forced to go like the streets are right now, but they can choose to be there or not.
July 6, 2008 at 11:49 pm
Peace be with you Rose
Suppose for the sake of argument you are correct. What should we do with all the homeless? I mean last month the country lost 60,000 jobes. This is typical of every month since Bush took office. There were a couple of months early last year where we actually gained jobes. They were service sector, and that means minimum wage.
How do expect everybody to “do their part to contribute?” Are you advocating that homeless work for free? How long will that take to depress wages even more? How many businesses would pay workers when free ones are available. Maybe you are thinking work programs to fix our deteriorating infrastructure. Don’t we have to stop our heavy war borrowing first? When jobes are decreasing then every time an unemployed gets a jobe an employed must lose one.
Every problem you listed can be overcome with dedicated support. Unfortunately the police manipulate homeless camps in such a way to make them fail. The crazed tweaker with a pit bull wouldn’t be removed even if the camp called the police. Poor people, especially the homeless don’t get equal protection in our criminal justice system. We have to address these types of problems right now and there is nothing to make anyone believe this would change.
It’s not the money so much as it is being allowed. The cities and the county would not let a camp ground open up even if we owned the property.
And about “slackers.” Society already has some very expensive slackers – their called busyness owners. The sit on their butts and collect the fruit of other peoples labor. Everybody seems fine supporting these big welfare queens, and I guarantee you that a few hungry young people are much less a burden on the labor then a few money hungry bosses.
Regardless of whether you decide to do something today or not the day will come soon when it can no longer be ignored. With several million jobes lost in this country in the last half dozen years, and no change in sight, if homelessness had a futures market we could get rich selling short.
love eternal
tad
July 6, 2008 at 11:57 pm
kateascot Says: July 6, 2008 at 10:21 pm
“….that I haven’t answered your question to you satisfaction when it is not that I didn’t not only answer it but i gave several ideas…”
“it is not that I didn’t not only answer it”
translation:
“i answered it.”
suggestion:
read your own posts before posting them…please!
July 7, 2008 at 12:07 am
Rose I do not see this society as anything to brag about at this moment, it is severly broken and in need of some fresh ideas and brave pioneers to tread on the soil of new frontiers in building a healthier society. We are growing or we are dying.
If I could afford the 5 acres i would buy it and set up camp! In fact I just might do that if the right opportunity comes along, did you think I wouldn’t?
I’m willing to believe that you mean no harm with your arguments against a campground and hope that you will open your mind to the possibility that paranoia is a risk in your camp as well as that of advocates.
July 7, 2008 at 12:16 am
Rather than give fresh blood to the blog vampire(s) I’ll hit the sack….perhaps tomorrow will see blue sky
July 7, 2008 at 2:20 am
Tad, most of the homeless in humboldt don’t want jobs. They’d rather spange and then show up at city council meetings to whine and gripe that their “rights” are being violated. Problem is that many of the homeless fail to comprehend that the working people are under no obligation to give you and your ilk free money.
As far as public restrooms…puhleeeeeease! When the homeless stop trashing them then maybe they’ll get to use them. When I was homeless and used a public restroom I’d leave it cleaner than I found it, whereas most homeless people smear feces on the walls, and pee all over the toilet seat.
July 7, 2008 at 2:23 am
Tad, those business owners create jobs for people and pay most of the taxes in society. Tad, you’re economically ignorant…you kill off business and businessmen then what do the people do for food and shelter? The minute you produce something someone is willing to purchase you become a businessman.
July 7, 2008 at 7:19 am
The business owners in Eureka have been lavished with $15,000,000 in taxpayer subsidies over the last few years, direct cash payments. The taxpayers have been creating any jobs that have been created, not the “free market” and not the “business owners.” The Enterprise Zone Voucher system is an ENTITLEMENT FOR BUSINESS OWNERS. HOW MANY EMPLOYEES AT THE CHINESE PULP MILL ARE BEING SUBSIDIZED BY YOUR TAX DOLLARS?
You worship the “free market” and “capitalism” like it was God. I will not try to tell you who God is or if He or She exists, that is your business but I can tell you that the “free market” is not God.
Haven’t you been reading this blog? What part of “Enterprise Zone Voucher Program” don’t you understand?
Aren’t real Republicans opposed to this Republican socialism? Where are the REAL Republicans? Rose, are you in favor of this Republican socialism?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:42 am
Just to make this clear. There are over 600 taxpayer subsidized jobs right here in Eureka. These jobs were created by the taxpayers, not by any private business. Get your facts straight.
The taxpayers pay the cost, the business owners get the profit. That is Republican socialism.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 8:02 am
Sure this right wing B.S. sounded great in the early 90’s. Sure the Democrats deserved to get pushed out the door back then after 30 years of their own corruption.
But it only took the national Republican party less than 10 years after gaining power to sink to equal or greater depths of corruption.
People like me are sick of this shit. Yes I am on the left. There are lots of people like me on the right too like the Paulistas who are also sick of this shit. We are speaking up. I agree with the Paulistas on some things and disagree with them on others.
What we both agree on is that we are sick of this pathetic and phony “two party system.”
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 8:10 am
Not sure where you get the numbers. Bill, but some of those programs WERE SET UP TO ENCOURAGE AND ENABLE BUSINESSES TO HIRE PEOPLE, LOW INCOME, LOW EDUCATION, STREET PEOPLE… Exactly the kind of thing you are looking for. Don’t rail against it.
On top of that, a successful business community and people with disposable income make more jobs available every day.
Someone suggested quite a while back that in order to get a job you have to go apply. How many of your homeless guys have gone and applied? Anywhere?
Ahhh, yes, the old argument, they can’t because… they have nowhere to shower and no clean clothes to interview in… now there is a help program you could start, kate, arrange for showers for people in a jobs oriented program, and for decent suits from the Salvation Army. It’s been done elsewhere, and you often get alot of help from business people who will offer advice and training on how to conduct yourself in an interview… we may have something like that up here, I don’t know, do you?
July 7, 2008 at 8:17 am
I am railing against the idea that businesses created these 600 jobs. When California goes broke this summer that program is a good candidate for the axe, and we will see how many jobs local businesses “create” without multimillion dollar subsidies.
How many homeless people do you think there are in Humboldt County, Rose? What percentage of the homeless are actually people who are capable of working? What percentage of the homeless population is working already? Studies elsewhere suggest that 50% of the homeless have jobs already.
Do you know any homeless people Rose? Would you like to meet some?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 8:38 am
There are two groups within the homeless population that get no benefit at all from the abusive comment: “You need to get a job.”
The first is a significant portion (up to 50% in some communities) of people who already have jobs. The advice “get a job” does NOTHING for them.
The second significant portion are people who are simply INCAPABLE of working, due to physical or mental illness or disability. The advice “get a job” does NOTHING for them.
So Rose, are these people worthy to sleep in a tent in your city or not?
And Rose, I am not being personal with you, I think you are more rational than lots of these anonymous freaks. That is why I am taking the time to reason with you.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 8:52 am
Looked at the link there Heraldo. Wtf does an “ecovillage” with land that was purchased have to do with a free homeless campground?
July 7, 2008 at 8:57 am
“Poverty is the worst form of violence.”
-Mahatma Gandhi
Why do you fear your fellow humans so much? Why do you hate the poor so much? What has gone so wrong in your lives?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 9:01 am
The link was in response to the claim that no communes survived.
July 7, 2008 at 9:06 am
Peace be with you
Such Hooverish stereo-typing, police log, bullshit.
love eternal
tad
July 7, 2008 at 9:14 am
And yet so very true, Tad, so very true.
July 7, 2008 at 9:17 am
Hello my Republican friends,
The enterprise zone deal not only encompasses wage subsidies. It allows for dollar for dollar tax credits for new machinery. UP TO $20,000,000!!!! How much did the taxpayers subsidize the Chinese communist owned pulp mill’s recent equipment upgrades?
Are you Republicans really happy with our tax money going to subsidize communist governments? Mr. Hannaford want to weigh in on this? Mr. “contain the commie threat?”
The Eureka Reporter won’t report on this scandal, because the Republicans are the architects of this scandal. Maybe the Times Standard will have the hormones to do it.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 9:19 am
I mean they have space on their front page since they didn’t cover the closure of the public restrooms as we were promised here.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 10:06 am
Here’s an idea, maybe the communist Chinese government will pay for a campground for our homeless people, since our taxpayers are subsidizing their industries.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 10:42 am
The MAC center was supposed to provide job related classes in their program, and they have done some of that, but they are finding that there are not as many jobs that are needed that pay a true living wage that will truly meet the necessary requirements of homelss people and their families. Instead The MAC encourages people to get on SSI to create an income because that is the only sure fired way to get a steady income. I oppose that. I’m not in favor of government money for all homeless people. What I think is needed is hands on work, like building an eco village where homeless people first develope a sense of community that will make them more confident and sociable. Many homeless folks have seen a side of life that you arm chair homeless observers never see and don’t understand what has been done inside their spirits. They need a home and companionship and hope. A campground is the least we can do to right the wrong of what society has created.
July 7, 2008 at 11:45 am
“Here’s an idea, maybe the communist Chinese government will pay for a campground ”
Or Home Depot. Or is that the same thing?
July 7, 2008 at 12:03 pm
I think that there is plenty of recyclable material out and about that could be gathered up and used in a campground. I like the “Ecotopia” model and think that using only those things that already exist, no new materials, would demonstrate what value there is in recycling and reusing. My idea for a campground involves developing a new way of thinking about building materials to address real low cost housing that meets standards of health and sanitation. We could enlist the help of alternative energy buffs who would help us build an eco-village that is sustainable and a prototype for other such endeavors. A working camp where the campers are building their own village and learning skills similar to those done during THE NEW DEAL.
July 7, 2008 at 12:55 pm
A job is a job, so it does not pay more than minimum, I worked for $1.25 an hour for several years. Then more, then picked up a trade, then after some years became a journeyman, then contractor, funny the harder I worked the luckier I became with income.
That we don’t provide potty so we pay with shit, is that the threat. Unfortunately it is up to you and everyone of us to provide our own necessary requirements. As far as armchair homeless, fuck you, I lived in 3rd world counties and you know what, you don’t work or contribute and you do not eat. If we were all fascists/neocons/etc like you keep running your mouth about, you would not have a public computer to continue to keep yapping on.
I owe because society has created, again bullshit. You create your own reality, if you do not like it, change it. the only proven way to achieve anything is to take responsibility , and earn it for yourself.
Read Ann Rands ANTHEM. Sorry but it is reality.
July 7, 2008 at 1:21 pm
OMG! HumRed is a Ayn Rand cultist! Selfishness is good. What a great philosophy for elevating humankind. She is another like Laffer who told greedy people what they wanted to hear so they worship her.
July 7, 2008 at 1:32 pm
SSI is welfare cash payment to two groups, anyone who is disabled and has low income with less than $2000(besides a home and car) in assets, and anyone over 65 in the same financial condition.
SSI isn’t part of the Social Security Retirement System, although they share administrative support. The maximum SSI payment in California is now about $860 month.
Most SSI recipients also qualify for food stamps and Medicaid and housing subsidies. SSI encourages recipients to earn income.
I think someone who can’t work sufficiently productively to earn their support deserves publically funded assistance. In fact, if they don’t accept that support but insist on subsisting on private donations, their standard of living will properly reflect that choice.
I also think someone not disabled but without income should be offered temporary public assistance while they seek ways to earn their support including education, training, subsidized employment, child care, and cash payments.
July 7, 2008 at 1:45 pm
We do not create our own realities because if I could I would not have HumRed in residence. I do not always know what is good or bad for me and thankfully community exists to keep me in check.
Our country and social system is not perfect, we must make major changes in our understanding of alternative lifestyles, appropriation of goods and services, integrity and respect for human life to achieve a true Democracy.
July 7, 2008 at 2:35 pm
i thought we were talking about a “campground” as a temporary space fo homeless folks to take refuge. but now kate is talking about gathering “recyclable” materials from all over and using them to build structures. that no longer sounds like a campground. and i can certainly envision an “eco-village” but to most people it probably sounds more like a “shanty-town.” and certainly once you start building structures you’re going to be confronted with the whole building inspection / code enforcement situation. if i were you i’d stick with the campground idea for now. anything with permanent structures being built is going to be a whole different ballgame.
July 7, 2008 at 2:44 pm
I am no kind of cultist one way or another. You don”t know shit about Rand or your comments would reflect differently.You would know more about laffer but that comment just disappeared.
I would be willing to bet that I contribute more in the way of money, opportunity, jobs, my own personal time to community service than jane, hightboldtage, kateascot, tad, etc by a factor of 2 to 10. Not expecting shit for it, don’t bother with your child like insults. I do it because thats my reality, which I created over a life time. If you do not have the ability to create your own reality and take some responsibility for it, what you still live with mommy and daddy.The shit you spout is not even democracy its pure socialist/progey garbage.
Who is the fascist kateascot, your want me out because my opinion is different than yours. I do know what is good and bad for me, not everyone else but me, and am willing to accept the responsibility for my actions and mistakes. I just do not think you should have any control over what I worked hard for, both body and brain.
I don’t know how many times you need to hear it but U.S. is a Republic, not a Democracy. I find it amusing that you want me out and yet I served this county in military, provide taxes for support of your socialistic views, create jobs, and donate to community. Whats going to happen when you put all the folks like me out of residence. Reminds me of children who don’t what there to be any adults.
July 7, 2008 at 2:44 pm
The Ayn Rand wack jobs are the reason I finally had enough sense to quit the Libertarian Party. Freedom, hell yes, greed, hell no.
Any Rand’s vision is no where near reality. No man is an island.
And I got tired of endless lectures on the joys of “anarcho-capitalism” WTF. That’s libertarian speak for total deregulation.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 2:52 pm
HumRed, how do you feel about the taxpayers subsidizing a chinese owned company here in Eureka? Do you think that is a good idea?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 2:53 pm
Here’s a clue: Ayn Rand would not like it.
July 7, 2008 at 2:58 pm
The socialist/libertarian does not like the Ayn Rand wack jobs. When you can support yourself and contribute more than the socialist tripe on blogs maybe you would have creditability. You need to get off that computer now so that high school kid can fill out a resume for a summer job.
July 7, 2008 at 3:06 pm
She would not want them subsidizing any company. You keep ragging on the fact thats a chinese owned company. If they were the only ones that would do the job so be it. Kind of like your living wage bullshit. Wages get paid according to profits generated. Your just another wantabe that thinks that with a business license you get a money tree. Look at the number that fail. If they gave you all the subsidy you could not do shit and would go out of business whining that someone else was at fault.
The day I start taking clues from you is the day I start taking tad and matt’s Rx’s.
All my days are peaceful.
July 7, 2008 at 3:09 pm
Right. Just ask all those millionaire check-out clerks at Wal-Mart.
July 7, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Peace be with you
Yea Bill, let a kid look for a summer jobe. Kids today have to compete with college graduates for those McDonalds jobes.
Thank god we got those Republic representatives butt kissing the rich otherwise we might find ourselves with the worst economy since the 1930’s depression, only with no family farms, labor unions, functional cities with operating local economies, oil, food and affordable housing, oops to late, never mind. Hell it has been nothing but social justice and prosperity for the very upper class of our society ever since the republic form of governance was sold to the highest bidder. What a system; tax the middle class into poverty to have enough funds to jail the impoverished.
No matter what form of government you might think the US has, IT IS NOT WORKING!
love eternal
tad
July 7, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Well HumRed there are 600 subsidized employees in Eureka. Do you think the program should be eliminated then? It is called the Enterprise Zone Employee program.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 4:08 pm
If I were a Democrat I would take a close look at this Enterprise Zone Employee Voucher plan. It is Republican socialism and it really should be exposed statewide. Hell, even nation wide.
It is administered by the Redevelopment Agency, and ALL OF ITS ACTIONS ARE APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL, sitting as the Redevelopment Agency.
It is completely hypocritical, and it puts the lie, once and for all, that “private businesses create jobs.” Not in Eureka they don’t. The taxpayers created 600 of them.
Why is it ok to give welfare to businesses but not to people?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 4:16 pm
Ahhh, there we go, Jane and I part company after two agreements. “Greedy” people – those are the ones who work, I guess.
Atlas Shrugged is the one you want to read, guys.
July 7, 2008 at 4:55 pm
HumRed, you insulted me with your “fuck you” so I used occasion as an opportunity to have a case in point that we do not create our own realities contrary to you saying we did. The fact that you are so insulted has me thinking you live a double standard, one for me and one for you. At any rate i meant no real disrespect, just messin with ya.
July 7, 2008 at 5:01 pm
To Careful Now: I don’t think that I talked about structures. I was refering to garden structures, outhouses, chicken coops, benches, flag pole, camp rosters or message boards….You don’t really expect the campground to be military style do you? The MAC is like jail and a campground like the Army? Most of the people we will be housing don’t want anything to do with either of those lifestyles.
July 7, 2008 at 5:06 pm
You are so ridiculous Rose. Greed is bad. Having a job is good. Forcing the taxpayers to subsidize your employee costs so you can make more profit is greed.
Laissez-Faire capitalism is modern day feudalism, grab all you can without regard for the damage you do while claiming you are fulfilling man’s highest calling..selfishness. People who believe that aren’t fully human.
July 7, 2008 at 5:24 pm
What I envision for a campground is:
Select an appropriate space from the available public surplus land,
Post some signs that says: “Give us your poor, your tired, your short of hope……”
Post a sign that says: “The City of Eureka cares enough about you to let you sleep here unmolested.”
Put out a portapottie for every 35 people or so.
Have the mayor and the chief of police visit Free meal for a week and tell all the homeless personally that it will be ok to camp there.
Done deal.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 5:28 pm
Why is it so hard for us to accept that people have different ways of living and that we all have basic needs and deserve by reason of our being alive to have space to live as we see fit? When the majority rules there is a minority that lost, lost what? Our right to live the life we believe in or must we conform to the status quo? Having been ruled by republicans has not changed who I am but has made it more difficult for me to live the life that I choose to live, free.
July 7, 2008 at 5:42 pm
Bill…..I’m not sure that either the Mayor or Chief of police have the Kahuna’s or desire to do such a thing, and if your dream comes true, well….I’ll be surprised as hell!
July 7, 2008 at 5:42 pm
See that’s what everyone is afraid of Bill. We have more than enough homeless people already. We can’t afford and don’t want to support people coming from elsewhere because of a permitted campground.
July 7, 2008 at 5:45 pm
Yeah I’m not so sure alot of publicity is a good idea, in fact I prefer NO publicity.
July 7, 2008 at 5:47 pm
I understand the fear Jane Doe. You will notice that I don’t dis anyone for fear. I just don’t think that the fear is realistic. I don’t think a campground by itself will draw people here.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Peace be with you
Some people have the real fear that a campground will be an attractant. Some people just say they have that fear because they really don’t want poor people around them. I personally am not as worried about “those people” coming here as I a about all the ones we’re going to make as the price of oil, and its demand goes up. From here on out we will always have less supply then demand. Only small farm agrarian towns will survive, and we’ve been banking on “mental health services” industry.
love eternal
tad
July 7, 2008 at 5:57 pm
I don’t think you are being realistic Bill. I know if I were homeless in an area where I got hassled and couldn’t find a safe place to live, I would figure out a way to get to where there was a permitted campground like you are envisioning. I think most people would. You need to figure out some way to insure the people who will be donating the land and paying the GR (the taxpayers) and the charities which are already stretched too thin that this won’t draw people we can’t afford to support, a system which will help those already here (the currently homeless and those about to become so) and not be overwhelmed by people coming for the campground. Your hope that it won’t draw people isn’t very reassuring.
July 7, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Peace be with you Jane
Think positive, Jesus fed 5,000 people with a can of tuna fish and a loaf of bread. But as gas goes up people are going to have to chose between paying rent and getting to work. We may all be living in tents before to long.
love eternal
tad
July 7, 2008 at 6:04 pm
Perhaps my “hopes” aren’t very reassuring but your “fears” aren’t doing much to stanch the suffering of humans around you. I personally knew 3 people that I met in the last year who have died alone on the streets of Eureka.
Jane, I think you are a liberal, I think you think you are a liberal and probably are I don’t mean to insult you but…..
Aren’t you advocating the idea that homeless should be hassled til they go somewhere else? Isn’t that a morally bankrupt position, putting off our homeless problem on taxpayers in other towns? How is this moral at all?
And if you are advocating this forced removal, then please realize that this would validate my assertioin that there is a “war on the homeless” coupled with the deaths of people. Death is more extreme than discomfort.
I am not trying to be obnoxious, but these questions are important and the answers may illuminate our soul – lu – tions.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 6:05 pm
Tad, what are these “farm agrarian towns”?
July 7, 2008 at 6:09 pm
Peace be with you
That is “small-farm agrarian towns.” As compared to “industrial-farm agrarian towns.” How that clarifies, and sorry ’bout the confusion.
love eternal
tad
July 7, 2008 at 6:10 pm
I can’t even imagine the mind set that would think asking for a way to prevent our social services and charitable organizations from being overwhelmed by newly arriving homeless is advocating running people out of town, Bill. It is a ludicrous assumption that a rational person wouldn’t make. Anyone who believes we can support an unlimited number of homeless is obviously in a delusional state and not to be taken seriously.
July 7, 2008 at 6:16 pm
There is a war on the homeless going on in Redway and Garberville I hear. Conspiracy, paid goons and all. Looks like some serious issues for the homeless community. how do we stand up and tell the powers that be that we don’t agree with chasing anyone out of the county, especially our own people to be a problem somewhere else? Imagine the healdlines “Humboldt County forces at gunpoint Homeless people out of County”…then the question, well where are they going?…..and by the time you can say dead-beat-county we are dragged through the mud and become a laughing stock to others….think about it.
July 7, 2008 at 6:17 pm
hello Jane Doe
I am interested in letting people camp unmolested on surplus ground. I am not asking you to support an “unlimited number of homeless.”
The reason I asked about your advocacy is not because I think it is overt with you, but it is implied in your post, the part where you say “I know that if I were homeless and didn’t have a safe place I would go somewhere where there is a campground.” I think that that is an affirmation of this harsh program of relocation on your part, though it may be subconscious. Doesn’t this validate the current policy of our city council, Eureka Mainstreet and the police department to drive the homeless out of Eureka?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 6:25 pm
I declare that wherever Bill is living to be surplus land and he shall share sleeping and sh*ting there with as many campers that may arrive.
Of course if Bill is a tenant of someone else, certainly they will also welcome the newly arrived Free people.
July 7, 2008 at 6:27 pm
Like I said above, Bill… read it again. You make assumptions which are completely illogical. If I said to you that you should put a lock on your door to keep people from going into your house uninvited, would you assume that means I want to kick everyone out of your house? We do have to support the poor and homeless who live here and those who come in the future with GR and charitable contributions which are already struggling. Individual needs don’t decrease as the number in need increases. There is a limit to what any community can support, your claims otherwise notwithstanding. Relying on miracles to solve the problems isn’t going to gain you any support.
July 7, 2008 at 6:29 pm
I love it when you guys cannibalize eachother.
July 7, 2008 at 6:31 pm
There is simply no evidence to support the idea that a campground will bring homeless people here from out of the area. It is a red herring. Do you think the campground in Eureka will be more pleasant than the campground in Reno or Modesto or Riverside?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 6:44 pm
And now you are dismissive about the very real concern about it being a homeless magnet. Your lack of concern does nothing to alleviate the fears over a highly likely and very serious problem which your campground could create but does say quite a bit about your lack of regard for the future of this community as a whole and makes one question whether you are a taxpayer who will have to help pay for this. I am seriously beginning to think you don’t have any desire to mitigate possible problems which means you will get zero support and it makes me question your real motivation.
July 7, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Hello Jane Doe,
And what is your real name then? If you want to “question my motivation.” Well?
Shouldn’t we question the motivation of some anonymous person like you?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 6:56 pm
That was priceless Bill. Sounds like you are learning debating tactics from Rose. LOL
July 7, 2008 at 6:57 pm
I thought it was clever too but you evaded the question, “Jane Doe.” What is your name? Where do you work? What are your motivations?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:00 pm
My name and where I work is irrelevant. My motivation is trying to find a solution to our homeless problem that doesn’t bankrupt the city or county. Yes, the financial solvency of my community is more important to me than the homeless.
July 7, 2008 at 7:02 pm
Just when I was getting completely sick of this never ending-thread about a homeless campground, it’s finally headed down the deep, dark road of blogular psychological exploration. Great.
July 7, 2008 at 7:02 pm
“Jane Doe” I am a real person, not an internet troll. I am out on the street every day. People can walk up to me and shake my hand and meet me and talk to me.
Most people that meet me like me ok in a personal way, even if we disagree politically.
I am confident that anyone who meets me and talks to me for five minutes or so will understand my motivations very well. I don’t hide them.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:06 pm
Are you saying I am an internet troll because I won’t give you my name, Bill? Its interesting that with all the local blogs available owned by people who use their full real names that you choose a blog owned by a Heraldo, a troll by your definition.
July 7, 2008 at 7:09 pm
I think I said that I am not a troll….scroll ^
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:10 pm
Well do you have a blog, Jane Doe? I will post on it if you need some posts.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:14 pm
Its funny that you never asked for my real name when I was agreeing with you about a living wage but as soon as I ask questions you don’t want asked I become a troll. What a hypocrite.
July 7, 2008 at 7:18 pm
So money is more important than people? I don’t think anyone really believes that, they would be monsters. But we are in a crisis and must do what we can to house homeless people, that i think we can all agree with, it is money that stops the project. We don’t need your money. Don’t want your money, we just need a piece of land. As far as services are concerned I think that you will see the amounts of services being used as people will be able to get healthier and spend time in the camp that would usually be out on the street, so you’ll see less of them.
July 7, 2008 at 7:19 pm
Ah but Jane you never questioned my motivations either.
And it is ok in my world to agree with me on some things and disagree with me on others. I advocate multiparty democracy, remember? More than just the stupid oppressive two party right left paradigm. That is over.
So where can us common folk go to meet you so that we can evaluate your motivations Jane Doe?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:19 pm
An economically healthy community is necessary to care for the poor. Your inability to understand that speaks volumes. I really hate that people like you are associated with the left. You need a whole different category so no one has to be embarrassed by your lack of reason.
July 7, 2008 at 7:22 pm
Jane Doe,
I have a whole different category, it is called “libertarian socialist.” Haven’t you been reading?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:23 pm
Chomsky would laugh at your irrational beliefs and hypocrisy.
July 7, 2008 at 7:24 pm
I don’t agree that an economically healthy community is needed to take care of the poor. Poor people are very resourceful and can do much with little.
July 7, 2008 at 7:27 pm
Enough time wasted here with the delusionals. I’m going to do something more productive, maybe pound sand down rat holes.
July 7, 2008 at 7:27 pm
I invite anyone to walk up to me on the street and engage me in cordial conversation. Most of you will enjoy it.
Then you will be able to be the judge of who is reasonable and who is not, who is sane and who is not, and who is clear of thought and who is not.
And I welcome “jane doe” to stand right beside me so people can make the same evaluation of her.
We can have some educational , non-violent fun.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:32 pm
Just be sure not to use your real name, Jane Doe because the Democrats and Republicans have probably made pounding sand a crime by now.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Let Chomsky come here and laugh in my face then. I don’t have time for nonsense.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 7:52 pm
kate, no fuck you was directed at you that I remember, but being a businessman and conservative I may have been drinking scotch and forgot. Was one directed at tad cause I find him totally without worth as a human being. I also cannot find post here so as many are perhaps it was removed.
I have no problem with you living any lifestyle you choose. I just think you should support said lifestyle on your own.
H, I have no problem with having been a laboror, driver,tradesperson, contractor, business owner, yet each level involves a certain amount of risk and responsibility, and I got income according to these things.. The income rewards are in proportion to those and many other things. That you would walk into walmart at 18 working as a clerk with little responsibility, no capital, no risk, do your 8 hrs, go home, and get dividend checks that equal those of someone who has funded the operation, taken the risk, developed the sales etc. is bullshit, and you know it. The scary part is that so many here do not.
July 7, 2008 at 8:05 pm
Having been ruled by republicans has not changed who I am but has made it more difficult for me to live the life that I choose to live, free.
There you go again, kate. Does that stuff just come out? Or have you really thought it through?
How in the hell have you been ruled by Republicans? Because we have a republican president? Do you not realize that Congress and the Senate are made up of all parties? That the President does not make the laws? He has veto power but that is all. You are more affected by State laws and programs than anything else, and guess what, ruled by Democrats with a Republican Governor, who also does not get to make the laws. Even at a local level, you’ll find more Dems than Reps.
And how in the hell has anything they have done made it harder for you to live your life? They spend their lives figuring out ways to give people who don’t work money that they take from those who do.
You live in the best possible place and time – you have more services, more choices, more freedoms, more programs than any other generation anywhere anytime.
If you are too blind to see it and appreciate it, you have only yourself to blame for your circumstances. With appreciation you might find your luck turning.
But think, man, think.
July 7, 2008 at 8:10 pm
So taxpayers subsidize Wal-Mart’s low wages for the heck of it even though Wal-Mart employees are getting valuable dividend checks? Such a deal.
July 7, 2008 at 8:17 pm
Rose,
You and I may or may not agree on the person in the White House but I will say that you could recite the names of the honest members of Congress in about 20 seconds.
It is clear to me that this Congress, both Republican and Democrat is the most corrupt in American history.
$7,000,000,000,000 (trillion) dollars have disappeared in 7 years.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 7, 2008 at 8:18 pm
booooYahhh and helllllyes…
the homeless nuts have taken over your blog and made you and Jane look like card carryin conservatives. lmSao
July 7, 2008 at 8:20 pm
What are you missing?
July 7, 2008 at 9:22 pm
Someone once said that the attitude with which a president has while in office is the same that the majority will take on in their daily lives. Presidents are leaders, this country has set our leaders to be worshipped, it wasn’t too long ago that repubs were flying their colors so proudly until their leader turned out to be a liar and a war criminal, now the bumper stickers are gone but the attitude remains because no new leader has risen. That’s what I mean by it’s harder for me to live my life and so too those who are marginalized because there is an attitude of the man who cut social programs for poor people, school budgets, veterans medical, highway repairs and many many more budgets and the populace sub-consciously has the same ideas in their own personal economy, stop helping the poor to keep money in the coffers for self and family. Then there are others who always live a simple life so that there is always something to share with those who are in need. Their leader is love for all living things.
July 8, 2008 at 2:43 am
too bad people can’t discuss these things and start moving toward a consensus for very long before they instead start focusing on their disagreements and interpreting each other’s words in the most negative lway, and then getting into name-calling and put-down matches with lots of references to one another being “delusional” and “irrational” and “trolls” and “monsters” and so on and so forth. boring *and* useless!
it seems that some people are conflict junkies, and then some others just don’t seem to notice when their conversation is devolving from discussion and debate into the realm of competition and one-upmanship and they just go along for the ride, much to the delight of the conflict junkies.
but some good exchanges of ideas did take place at times before people reverted to the childish stuff.
July 8, 2008 at 6:30 am
I am happy to exchange ideas with anyone but when people start attacking me personally or questioning my motives they are going to need a name.
It would be refreshing for people to have the courage to stand up for their ideas, and stand behind their words. I do.
So “Jane Doe” ‘HumRed” and “Local Yocal” how about it? What’s your name? If you can’t give us your names why not?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
July 8, 2008 at 8:01 am
the attitude with which a president has while in office is the same that the majority will take on in their daily lives…
Kate! You really REALLY REALLY REALLY have to start reading the news. I mean REALLY. Because, I’m sorry, but… hahahahahahahahaha, that’s a good one!
July 8, 2008 at 5:22 pm
Rose, I am going to be nice to you because I hear what “well, shucks” said and I want to respect you and this blog, so please explain why you are making fun of me. You and I obviously don’t live similar lifestyles. I read a newspaper once in a while and only that because I do not trust the press very much. I read a wide variety of other materials and listen to news, like PBS, The BBC, Democracy Now, some right wing talk shows to get a sense of what the attitude is in America. I doubt that these are your news sources so perhaps you don’t know what I do.
July 8, 2008 at 6:10 pm
Peace be with you
Rose you said: “He has veto power but that is all.” I disagree, he has also assigned himself “signing orders,” “presidential orders,” and “presidential initiatives.” A lot of those have been over turned in courts, but it takes four or five years before you can. A lot of harm can come in 4 or 5 years to someone one paycheck away from homelessness.
HumRed said: “Was one [fuck-you] directed at tad cause I find him totally without worth as a human being.” I wonder why I’m not surprised when I learn your an alcoholic, a gossip monger, and you judge people’s worth all on the same drunken post (or is it blog I forget). What did I ever do to your drunken ass?
love eternal
tad
July 8, 2008 at 8:33 pm
Democracy Now! kate. That explains it all. Depression and angst, the ills, the misery, the horror, the pinched face.
I was not making fun of you, kate. Just saying that this country has done anything but follow Bush. Have you missed the hate mongering the hate sites – oh, you cannot see the forest for the trees, it’s where you GET your news.
I weep for you. Your mind has been poisoned and soured by those who want you to be the victim, and you have embraced it hook line and sinker.
For God’s sake, kate, it is still a beautiful world. The sun rises and sets.
I weep a tear for you. But only one. You have chosen your path. I am sorry for you. Poor is about more than money. It is about attitude.
July 8, 2008 at 8:44 pm
Yeah, buck up, Kate. You don’t have to see the effects of war and depleted uranium first hand. You can just turn off the computer with its mean “hate Bush” sites and put on a happy face.
July 8, 2008 at 9:01 pm
Yup, it’s all about where you get your “news”. And all about what “news” most reflects your own belief system. Put on a happy face. Watch Fox News Channel. Listen to Rush Limbaugh. Smile the smile of the brain damaged. And worship the devil.
July 8, 2008 at 9:02 pm
No placating now Rose, it’s not becoming. The world is not as beautiful as it was 20 years ago and it won’t be for a long time, if ever before it’s made new, and I won’t deny that it’s true as is the custom these days.
What is also true is that these are the happiest days of my life. But your description of who I must be was so well written that I wonder if you are the one experiencing such a life. Like I said before Rose, respect is important in winning friends and influencing people, but it’s people such as yourself who frustrate people like me to the point where I begin to insult you back, but you would say it is I who irritate you, so which is it??? One things for sure it’s probably a waste of precious time!
So please don’t weep for me Rose, God is good.
July 8, 2008 at 9:03 pm
Smile the smile of the brain-dead under chem-trail skies…
July 8, 2008 at 9:12 pm
You don’t irritate me, kate.
? Depression and angst, the ills, the misery, the horror, the pinched face.? The perpetually sour expression…
That is not you I am referring to. That is Amy Goodman.
July 8, 2008 at 9:19 pm
Rose, take a look at Condoleeza Rice!
July 8, 2008 at 9:21 pm
It must be strange for you to watch someone who actually feels the pain of others Rose. Such a vivid reminder of your own lack of empathy and the crimes your beloved leader has perpetrated on the innocent people of other countries must feel surreal to one such as yourself. Amy Goodman is so far above you in every respect that you shouldn’t even mention her name.
July 8, 2008 at 9:31 pm
Come on get up be happy! Put on that smiley face. Forget about your troubles – chase all your blues away. Don’t you think about EPIC, Rose, put the D.A. out of your mind. Don’t think of Ken Miller, Rose, or your smile will start dripping slime. Come on get up be happy put on that doggerel face! Yeah!
July 8, 2008 at 9:42 pm
Amy Goodman should learn to put on a smile and crack a joke between stories of lies for war, DU caused cancer and birth defects, hundreds of thousands of dead Iraqis, warrantless wiretapping, and loss of habeas corpus. It’s all just an endless joke to the brain dead. No wonder they are glued to Faux infotainment.
July 8, 2008 at 9:45 pm
They’re just emulating Barbara Bush who doesn’t waste her “beautiful mind” on war and body bags. Must be why jr. banned pictures of caskets of the war dead.
July 8, 2008 at 10:09 pm
Bloody Christ, thats it. Stepford wives, the lot of them.
July 8, 2008 at 10:50 pm
I just watched a dvd called “Aresol crimes” about chem-trails. According to this the trails have a mold in them that lowers our immune system. Tests have also found heavy metals in the stuff these trails leave in the air that we suck in as we breathe. In the 5-6 years that research has been done on these trails breathing related deaths have gone from the 5th leading cause of death in the US to the 3rd. The government won’t say anything about it and the media shuts down also, so my question is what is going on, really!?
July 8, 2008 at 10:52 pm
Sorry I changed the subject but I’m concerned and want to know….
July 8, 2008 at 10:57 pm
Here: and maybe you can start a blog
July 9, 2008 at 12:15 pm
Hey Mike; I’m wondering, are you a power tripper, like, do you have to be in control all the time? Conspiracy theories abound because questions do not get answered to the degree of the question posed. If Chemtrails are just water vapors then why do they have substance in them? Why do they produce a haze in the sky that blocks out the blue that we are used to? Why isn’t that question being answered I’m not interested in a blog of my own, I’m too busy already but asking a question that is aside from the one posed isn’t so horrible is it Heraldo?
July 9, 2008 at 2:37 pm
Kate, I wouldn’t call Mike a power tripper for suggesting you get your own blog. It’s a common response to those who comment across multiple threads on subjects unrelated to the posts.
It’s not horrible to ask questions, but don’t be surprised when questions about chemtrails go unanswered in this particular forum.
Google “chemtrail blog” and you may find people who have answers to your questions and matched interest in the subject.
July 9, 2008 at 2:50 pm
Heraldo, I wasn’t thinking he was a power tripper just for asking me to get a blog and quit talking about questions that I have that are off subject but for other posts made to others and I, like “quit it” and such. Like he’s a daddy talking to children……and really I’m not surprised when I don’t get an answer, asking the question is enough sometimes, thanks for responding.
July 9, 2008 at 2:57 pm
Thanks for your participation, Kate.
I appreciated the “quit it” comment. Sometimes people need a daddy no matter how old they are.
July 9, 2008 at 7:50 pm
The chamber gets elected by its members…what about kaitlin’s private club?
July 10, 2008 at 1:53 pm
SHHHHH!!! don’t ask demockery limited any tough questions!
July 10, 2008 at 4:54 pm
SHUT UP
July 10, 2008 at 6:24 pm
Stop asking questions! Obey your masters!
July 11, 2008 at 8:58 am
No, we won’t shut up, and we won’t use your fake currency either David Cobb. Your days are numbered, getting axed from the Times-Standard should have demonstrated that. Your outfit has nothing to do with democracy, just like this new alliance has nothing to do with small business. It’s all about control.
July 11, 2008 at 10:08 am
Quit it! You’re making David very angry….
July 13, 2008 at 1:37 pm
Yet another occasion when our wonderful Arkley masters of journalism can’t be bothered to ask good questions like the ones above.
July 24, 2008 at 6:47 pm
Come August 01 the homeless can have Old Town back, shit in doorways and live in their cars. Take a good look… businesses are leaving the area in big numbers. Tourist season this year is a joke. People can’t put gas in their cars to get to work. If you jokers spent more time out doing rather than posting your BS online, perhaps something could get done in this community. Personally, I say this town and just about everything about it is a laugh. I would move away if I didn’t have parents here who can’t afford to make it without some help.
Good luck Old Town… your gonna need it.