Local reporter turned blogger John Osborn offers another break down of the candidates in current local elections. The data reflects answers given at recent debates hosted by Healthy Humboldt and the League of Women Voters.
Below is an excerpt from the chart of 4th District Supervisor candidates.
See the full chart on John’s blog, and also published in the latest North Coast Journal.
And since Ryan Sundberg’s manager allowed him to participate in the McKinleyville debate — unlike other forums — Osborn assembled and additional chart based on 5th District candidates.
As a career politician, I dislike and distrust Bonnie, But her answers are most prudent of the three. The big box boys don’t play fair against our current low paying jobs. They have a strategy to sell SOME items you would price shop, at below/at cost price. To complete your whole job will cost the same from established local stores. If you ask them they will match most pricing from The Depot. Just ask for a quote on your whole porject. Be dedicated to your supplier and you will get great service and pricing. That is why contractors get better prices.
On the other hand if you want to go and shop every item, then buy form all the locals, only the price point items. You are wasteing your time and getting a higher price on the rest of your matirals. Dont be a jerkoff.
well put ponder z
I dont remember Bass using any “quotations” while she was talking.
Jeffs response is the most realistic. Expecting only prevailing wage jobs is ridiculous. How about any jobs – since there is a lack of them?
Hey guy, it’s called a “loss leader.” It’s not a big box idea. Stores of all sizes, especially grocery stores, have been offering loss leaders for decades. I dare say our locally owned grocery stores do the same thing. It’s called Business 101. If a local business owner can’t be bothered on how to run his business, he doesn’t deserve our patronage. Sad to say, this is often the case… people with zero business sense try to run a business and make a gazillion mistakes.
Instead of shutting down competition, how about educating business owners? Offer a course at CR.
Wanting only “prevailing wage” jobs is stupid or it is pandering to an audience that Bonnie thinks is stupid.
Virgina wanting to study the “pot tourism” idea is depressingly vague & is a perfect example of why so many people think she is not very bright.
Jeff flat out didn’t answer any question about legalization but punted to avoid taking any stand. Same with Bonnie on that question.
Based just on that table above, on the big box question I would rate Virgina an A, Jeff a B+ and Bonnie a F.
On the legalization question, all three get an F.
All three come across as vague & mealy mouth.
Jeff Leonard on Big Boxes:
“If I read the EIR, ignoring the comments section at the end which identify all the illegal aspects of the proposed project, and then declare that it’s “one of the ten best, ever,” then in my mind, the regulation requirements have been met. Damn pesky Coastal Commission!”
Well, to compete with big box competition, seems most employers would first have to cut salaries, lower heath care contributions, and cut retirement benefits.
Now if they could only buy from wholesalers at the same low margin, they might be able to level the playing field
HiFi again reveals his inability to understand what he reads. There is no need to LOOK for poverty wage jobs. McJobs are plentiful. We need to LOOK for prevailing wage jobs that can actually support a family without putting them on the taxpayer dole via food stamps, Medi-Cal and subsidized housing. He didn’t even understand who said what. It was Bonnie who said the effects of legalization need to be studied, not Virginia. Virginia and Jeff basically said nothing but wait and see. Too bad Virginia didn’t explain what “healthy ways” local businesses can compete with big boxes and it’s likely she doesn’t have a clue since she couldn’t figure out how to make her established family restaurant compete against franchise outlets serving up higher priced McFood.
Plain Jane- what planet, or at least what county, do you live in?
There are far more people looking for even minimum wage jobs than there are jobs available. In your closed little world you may look down on those jobs but they are a godsend for a lot of people.
The minimum wage jobs are for people starting out, who aren’t yet worth more than that to employers. Next time you go into McDonalds or Burger King get your nose out of your french fries & look around. All the employees are high school or college age kids.
Minimum wage jobs like waiters are getting more money from tips than their salary. Other minimum wage jobs are starting type training jobs & the people leave those for better ones later. Minimum wage jobs are not meant to raise a family on or have a career in.
The Pierson corporation pays its starting people minimum wage for their low level jobs just like Home Depot does.
As for the rest, I am coming to the conclusion that while your nastiness skills are great, your reading comprehension skills are declining in your old age. I did not say that Virgina said legalization needs to be studied I said “Virgina wanting to study POT TOURISM is depressingly vague”.
hi fi’s bald spot appears to be eating a hole in his brain. the land speculation racket appears to be slow enough for him to take cheap shots and use ridiculous mis-reads of even basic charts.
quit joshin’ and deal with reality.
Were not talking McDonalds or Wal Mart here. It is Home Depot that pays a fair wage. And remember Costco is a big Box and pays some of the largest hourly wages in the county. Not all Big Box stores are like Wal Mart.
Virginia didn’t say ANYTHING about studying ANYTHING, you ignorant fool. She said “creative solutions need to be found.” Bonnie was the one who said a study was needed. Idiots like yourself denigrate the idea of a study (maybe it reminds you of your lack of same while in school), but some people understand the necessity of doing a study to ascertain the facts before trying to fix the problem.
If we had enough decent wage jobs so people could afford to buy from the McJob producers (food or otherwise), both problems would be solved.
ponder z is correct that Bonnie’s answers are really the only ones that have anything to do with reality.
as for big boxes, don’t forget that Wal-Mart (which is what we’re really talking about, not Home Depot) pioneered the practice of squeezing their SUPPLIERS out of business too. the worst thing that can happen to a small business is for its product to be picked up by Wal-Mart. it wraps itself around them like a boa constrictor, then tightens until the air leaves its lungs. when the meal is finished it finds another sucker.
“High” Finance – Find me one study, from anywhere, that demonstrates that a Wal-Mart opening had a net positive effect on a municipal economy after 10 years.
That’s true Eurekite. Walmart forces their suppliers to cut prices (and wages) to the bone which is why so many end up off shoring for third world wages. Old Sam must be spinning in his grave.
So I see that Virginia is the “creative solutions” candidate, with no particular idea or solution herself.
Give us one example when she worked with at group that came up with a “creative solution” to anything.
If the press is too lame to ask for specifics then candidates need to begin to challenge each other on the details.
I need to educate myself more as to how jobs, income is being created in our county. My personal experience is that many of my friends are now free lance contractors or consultants. Are more jobs coming from people starting their own businesses? I think so, so the question is how can they be assisted.
The bigger projects need assistance and competent help to come into existence. Can the paper mill be assisted? Short sea shipping, what help does that need?
Federal Funds come and go. State funding is going to be more scarce.
In terms of job development, where is the most bang for the buck?
I am self-employed and much of my projects are from out of the area (i.e. bring out of county money into the county).
When I talk to others who are self-employed professionals with primarily out of the area customers the number one draw/only draw for being in Humboldt County is quality of life. Clean air and water, unspoiled beaches, and open spaces.
That is and will continue to be Humboldt County’s sole competitive advantage. If we destroy those things, that flow of high paying jobs sucking money into the area will cease.
I challenge anyone to name a single company/self employed individual (other than resource extraction and pot growing) whose clients/customers are primarily out of the area that will give any answer for why they are located here other than quality of life. By every other metric there are only disadvantages to being located in a geographically remote area.
This is why we need to fight like hell to preserve the quality of life here and protect it from sprawl and pollution.
I, too, am self employed and could live virtually anywhere in the world. I live here because of my deep roots here as well as family, but family is slowly moving away for better financial prospects. No one can live on minimum wage and this community is going broke trying to support those who try.
This is why telecom infrastructure is so important to Humboldt. The future, economically speaking, depends greatly on this being in place. There are a huge number of companies and individuals who can locate themselves in the area for work, in addition to “rural outsourcing” and other options. This is already a significant part of the local economy, as above anecdotes suggest.
Marijuana is not insignificant but it is vastly overstated in terms of the total economic activity of the region. I’m of the opinion that with legalization that sector will become more important, but being legal and organized this is only good news for the area. It really caters well to the quality of life factor that we all enjoy.
The bulk of Humboldt’s economy is involved in the business of running Humboldt. The isolation of the area provides costs and opportunities that are not present in comparably-sized areas located nearer to other larger cities, which tend to monopolize such services in their respective sphere’s of influence.
I agree with many that the key for Humboldt is to identify and preserve its advantages and to nurture its ability to capitalize on those advantages. Building large retail complexes is not the way to do this. Ruining Richardson Grove/101 is not the way either. Diversifying, ala short-sea shipping, is much wiser as that provides infrastructure and redundancy, two things that are key when dealing with the outside world in terms of business.
Finally, remember that Humboldt is very small in terms of population. Even a few good ideas and companies taking off as a result of these infrastructural improvements will have noticeable impacts. There’s no likely gang-busters business explosion coming to Eureka but that’s no reason to be hopeless and throw away the future for slave wages at Wal-Mart. The area doesn’t need billion-dollar companies, it needs a few ten-million-dollar companies.
Neely seems to be the candidate who best understands this. Her work on the Coastal Commission demonstrates a clear understanding of the bigger picture and the long-term, as well as a desire to preserve these unique attributes of Humboldt County.
Bass appears ready to sell us out to the highest bidder with enthusiasm while Leonard will do it in a more spineless-manner, wearing a shield of studies, defeatism and short-term thinking.
Worth a read:
Harbor District committee weighs in on Humboldt Bay economy
http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_14990135
Its sooo funny hearing people on one hand complain about the lack of jobs while at the same time being so picky about any potential new ones that they are preventing any growth from occurring. I know a ton of people who cant find any work. The self employed people appear to be out of touch with the blue color economy.
Stop logging, stop development, make everything way more complicated with multiple layers of regulation to do anything. Resist all efforts to connect our remote isolated are with the rest of the country. Then, demand high paying jobs only – from all the would be investors looking to create business here (as if lol).
What sort of jobs do you think will improve the economy here, Bolithio? Fast food, big box, minimum wage jobs just transfer money from one business to another without a net gain, and often a net loss, in jobs. If a business like Walmart moves in and hires people, but established stores lay people off due to loss of business, where’s the gain?
Thanks for posting that link, Mike. They have some very good ideas on how to create living wage jobs which capitalize on our strengths and government programs to grow wisely.
well said eurekite at 12:30
I agree that telecom based jobs represent Humboldt County’s best hope. But I think light manufacturing, despite the cost of shipping also needs to be pursued. Not everyone is cut out for, nor wants to, work in a cube farm all day. People so inclined need the opporunity to make things with their hands, and maybe businesses that provide those particular jobs will require some kind of reduced tax rate, below market lease, or preferential financing to lure them into the area.
A second and third broadband route is a must.
Agreed also that it is unfair to lump Costco, Home Depot, and some other big box chains with Walmart. Integrity of the business is key, and Walmart doesn’t have it.
Let’s widen Richardson Grove!Pot Lords aren’t donating anymore.Take a look at Southfork High School and it’s in shambles!Try a “Big Box Mall” dispensary and export your marijuana to Colorado. That’s what Jumbo would do!Let’s legalize the pot.I’ve always wanted to buy a piece of property in Petrolia. I couldn’t afford it! So,I moved to Penrose,Co where it feels like 1999 Humboldt County! The dispensaries are paying 5K per pound and $3200.00 for outdoor.Just keep growing,Humboldt!Invest in your own trucking business,load a 53 foot trailer up full of Humboldt nugs,and drive right on through Richardson Grove!Now our kids are washing cars just to keep their schools open? -Jumbo Nolan
Home Depot isn’t much better than Wal-Mart and Costco is a decent corporate citizen but all have the same effect of taking profits out of the area, monopolizing retail and homogenizing the cultural landscape of the region. Further, with the technology changes that are in place and coming, on-site retail has a different future than most imagine. Building large mall-style developments that will be irrelevant in 20 years is not good long-term thinking. I’m okay with doing that in some places, but not on the waterfront. That’s really my main gripe with Home Depot, specifically.
I agree 100% about light manufacturing and industry. Arcata has a nice niche of companies doing this now and it’s a very promising model to follow. The short-sea shipping caters to that, and the telecom supports their ability to work as subsidiaries of largely manufacturers, stay in touch with clients and manage their supply lines.
I think a bunch of outsourced call centers would be dreary and also very poor economic planning. I think remote offices, skill-set based software support and development and things like that are the best bet. The knowledge-workforce of the area is greatly underrated.
We need to make sure our elected officials don’t sell out industrial space, for example, to retail for a short-term tax hit.
jumz – If you want to complain about school taxes look squarely at the State of California. Also, I advise supporting a rollback of Prop 13 and voting against Republicans in state elections as they are the bulk of anti-property tax reps. The Democrats might want to waste your money but the truth is that CA doesn’t capture enough value from the real estate here as a result of bad policy.
As far as marijuana, it is a jobs-creating, economic-activity creating agricultural production business. There are myriad opportunities in recreation, marketing/branding, eco-tourism and organic farming in that sector.
Do you consider beer brewing an illegitimate business? Once legalized, this is the same thing, and you will probably be able to get a job as a result, nevermind the increased taxed receipts (not currently being collected) that can help cover the schools so your kid doesn’t have to wash cars anymore (also, this is usually done to pay for extra-curriculars, not teacher salaries).
Most salient, widening Richardson Grove has nothing to do with marijauana or being anti-development. It has to do with the project having little point, costing money, and damaging the gateway to Humboldt County. I’d support it if there was some actual need. There are certainly much more dangerous stretches of the highway.
I also note that you don’t mind blowing a hundred million dollars on road-widening, which is state tax money well-spent, but then complain that your school doesn’t have enough money. Same well, bro. Same well.
I think any jobs will improve the economy. There are allot of really good ides floating around right now, and when the time is right, and if the money is there, hopefully we will see some of them realized. The unfortunate fact is that currently, starting up anything is not only risky, but expensive. Loans are harder to get. Permits are harder to get. Insurance for your employees? Good luck. Your likely to just scrape by after the required stuff (work comp etc.)
Eventually things will be better, but for now, any jobs will help our economy. Its unrealistic to only support “best case” scenarios. Safeway’s profits are spread out all over the country. How many safeways do we have? Right-aids, Longs, and any other franchise. All of these companies extract profits. But people are getting services and goods. There was very little lower-mid income stores prior to target. You may not like it, but it really helps people who cant afford all our wonderful local shops.
Bolithio -
Actually, Wal-Mart type jobs do NOT help the economy. You’re better off on government assistance for a year, be it unemployment, job re-training or anything else. The most important thing to realize is that the job gain from these “big box” retailers is very short-term as other people end up losing their jobs in equal numbers fairly quickly. If a store adds 200 jobs but puts 200 other people out of work in the process, what’s the net gain?
The long-term effects are actually quite devastating. It’s a complex situation and I’m not going to waste my typing but please understand that I’m not trying to deceive you.
Almost verybody against big box retailing (especially on the watefront, gahd), is actually in favor of more work, full employment and a healthy local economy. If you just want a quick (shitty) paycheck and the larger effect be damned, well you’re not much of a citizen or community member, are you?
Finally, there are jobs to be had, and jobs to be created. All those marijuana people that are so derided all have income and a “job,” be it under-the-table or not. They are largely those who have been moved out of the workforce for whatever reason and needed an income source. They have built the seeds of a new industry and with their product on the verge of legalization YOUR economy is about to benefit. They could have easily chosen less constructive pursuits to resolve their respective economic crises but they did not.
Try to follow that example. It’s easy to walk down to the store and say “give me a job” and stand around all day and get a check. Maybe it’s time to try harder? Move somewhere until things improve? Take that job you don’t WANT? Hustle doing sales and contract work. Whatever you gotta do. Just please don’t sell out your neighbors and kids and friends in the process by doing something stupid like building a ticky-tacky mall on the best industrial real estate in the county.
had a little time last week so i stopped at a few wal marts as i was not familiar with them- the people that they hire in general will not qualify for many jobs other than what they are doing stores have a lot of staff to probably cover for those deficiencies anderson store is new and quite nice others are ok i do not mean this as a put down to the workers but a lot not all would not be qualified to work in a non menial job
Me, I’m just trying to deal with Ken Bareilles actually following this blog.
Hat’s off Heraldo, you are certainly far-reaching.
Bolithio Says:
April 30, 2010 at 3:13 pm
I think any jobs will improve the economy. There are allot of really good ides floating around right now, and when the time is right, and if the money is there, hopefully we will see some of them realized. The unfortunate fact is that currently, starting up anything is not only risky, but expensive. Loans are harder to get. Permits are harder to get…
Bolithio, you just hit the nail squarely on the head, but here is my addition to what you said: From about 2001 to early 2007, anyone with a halfway decent idea could find the financing. Yet, nothing happened here in Humboldt County. The reason is what you said: ‘permits are harder to get’.
We had a period where the money was available, but no smart growth happened.
The reason I keep coming back to voting Bonnie out is that in Humboldt County, of all the Political Figures, she is the most powerful one. And nothing gets done, even when macroeconomic factors are totally favorable.
Spongy Morel, one of the problems in this county is nobody seems to notice that a JR after a name means a different person.
I think this is true…..The self employed people appear to be out of touch with the blue color economy.
These are two styles of earning a living. And both can support each other.
Broadband…..YES! AND finding a way for the mill to reopen and to use the harbor for short sea shipping. These ideas need not to fight each other. The blue color people, those who work with their hands. They have great skills,and an admirable work ethic. It hurts these people to not have work. It hurts more than their pocket book, it hurts their souls.
Now THAT is acid wit. There’s plenty of acid at the Humboldt Mirror, but not much wit. How does Heraldo rate?!
Very sad hugs.
Hifi said, “Next time you go into McDonalds or Burger King get your nose out of your french fries & look around. All the employees are high school or college age kids.”
This is easy enough to disprove, Hifi. Go to a Burger King or McDonalds. The staff is definitely not high school and college age, not any more.
It’s been my experience that even the best employees can be turned into robotic drones by poor management. Then people like Hifi can talk about how they are only worth minimum wage.
One of the things that should be painfully obvious to everyone by now is the idiocy of looking to “business experts.” I’d like to ask the self-declared “business experts” whether the destruction of Louisiana’s oyster beds and shrimp industry was worth the marginal reduction in oil prices that offshore drilling may have brought about.
It makes me sick at heart when I hear people talking about tree-huggers as though they are idealistic fools.
Sure, they/we are idealistic, but the fools are those who have somehow managed to gain a reputation as tough-minded business experts. They are only expert at pushing costs onto others (in econospeak, they are expert at finding and exploiting externalities, and at buying government officials to enable them to continue doing so).
They have driven the country to ruin. They should be in jail, not on interview shows.
I have heard that some mill management is being rehired, for what it is worth.
Remember Yakima?
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Mitch raises a good thought – where is the Herald and other local media on the catastrophe in the Gulf when just mid-late last year, a post was up with regard to offshore oil drilling expansions on the west coast.
Let’s see if this accident matches the 450-500 million barrels of oil old Sadaam Hussein dumped into the Persian Gulf.
Lastly – remember the historic profits in the billions that BP reported over the past few years. Yep, if this is a British Petrolium connected business operation, then let us see how much fortitude American elected officials have at foreclosing on the business to pay for 100% environmental, economic, social and heritage losses. The corporate board members should LOSE EVERYTHING!
Oil is a fricken life killer, for real!
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Yes, HOJ, I remember Yakima. I was there. A textbook case (like PL) of a corporate “person” who took over a local company, raped it, and left it to die. Oh yes, they provided jobs. . .to Mexicans, then to people working for EDD. Bolitho and Hifi: this is why folks around here are a little leery about Walmart and Home Depot. Have you forgotten what happened to downtown when the new mall opened? Created jobs, did it?
I think people have good reason to be wary of Home Depot, but you have to give them credit, if they came to town, they bring with them benefited living wage jobs. Not amazing jobs, but non-tourism jobs. I hate Home Depot. I don’t like going there, I can never find anything, and the staff doesn’t seem to know shinola from the other thing. But I would like to think that another 100 families have access to health care through their job at Home Depot.
Here is the larger point, until the balloon tract comes into play, gets cleaned up and added to the tax base, NO jobs will be created there. If a business goes in there with a bad business plan, it will fail. But the carcass will be very appealing to the second business that moves into the same space.
Instead of factoring in an EIR, public process, Hazardous materials, and everything else that is currently in the calculus, they will ask: “can I afford First, Last, and Deposit, and do I think I have a market?” Eventually the spaces, once in play, will gradually fill with legitimate, non-tourism jobs. And that is what this county needs.
Incidentally, Walt mentioned PL, for the record, Hurwitz is an asshole.
Walmart averages 40% of all retail sales. They employ fewer per $1 million dollars of sales than do small and medium size retailers. Therefore, after an initial hiring blip lasting maybe 6 months, there will be a net result of fewer jobs as local firms layoff workers. There could be a slight uptick in part-time, minimum-wage jobs without benefits.
That reminded me of Republican job math! 2 people working half time is twice as many jobs as 1 person working full time.
Let me try to summarize the big-box argument. In my opinion, both sides make correct statements, but they talk past one another.
PRO: Wal-mart etc are efficient and get goods to people at very low cost, moving production to the lowest cost location. They are capitalist heroes.
CON: Wal-mart etc are efficient AT WHAT THEY DO, which is getting goods to people at very low prices, thereby out-selling smaller stores and making money for their owners. The COSTS are quite high, but the costs are pushed onto others. They are villainous examples of the logical end of capitalism.
The PROs think the CONs are missing the point.
The CONs think the PROs are looking through a pinhole.
Wal-mart etc are great as long as you don’t need a job, aren’t worried about exploitation of foreign workers, don’t care about the environment, don’t care about concentration of wealth and power in fewer and fewer hands, and just love those falling prices.
When Home Depot comes, cheap-ass shoppers will go to Pierson’s for expertise and then save a couple of bucks by making the final purchases at Home Depot.
Once Pierson’s is out of business, people will bitch that “you can’t find decent help at Home Depot.”
We shop ourselves into unemployment.
Heraldo,
Didn’t you find some article that indicated Home Depot may not come here even if the Marina Center gets built?
In any event, I think the key issue with the balloon tract space isn’t what ultimately gets built there (provided it is done in a reasonably responsible manner), it is how much of an improvement “anything” will be over “nothing.”
Ken, Home Depot will NOT add 100 people (net) to living wage jobs or health benefits. As mentioned above, there will be an initial hiring frenzy (well publicized), as they seek to damage their competition by hiring workers away from them. Then, quietly over the next three or so years, they will slowly begin to release them and replace them with $8-10/hour part-timers with little or no benefits.
Are you familiar with the concept of “zero-sum”? That is to say, there is a ceiling on the amount of dollars being spent in the home improvement market in Humboldt. Bringing Home Depot here will not add to that ceiling, only rob market share from existing (local) businesses.
BTW, Hi Fi, you incorrectly characterize Pierson’s as a minimum wage employer, without benefits. If that is so, why are the vast majority of Pierson employees long-term or even lifers? You should talk to them. On the whole, they are happy, benefited and well-compensated. Sorry that that throws a monkey wrench into your argument.
Think again,
You make fair points, where is your proof that this is what happens? I will read your post with an open mind.
Do you really think that people would continue to drive to Crescent City’s Home Depot, if there were one in Eureka? People now, drive up to Crescent City to make purchases.
I read the liberal, national blogs, and I never see anyone griping about Home Depot’s practices as it relates to their employees. Meanwhile, other companies like Walmart are notorious for them. I think it is unfair to lump the two companies together.
I think the liberal coalition has received a lot of funding from Pierson’s building center, where I often shop, and consequently has used the same arguments they used against Walmart (excellent arguments, by the way, I too was against Walmart coming to town) with great success. But, I don’t think those arguments pertain to Home Depot.
I don’t blame Pierson’s Building Center for taking this approach, it has been effective so far. But they still price their goods in this town with an essential duopoly. Of course they don’t want more competition.
No one complained when the McKenney’s opened the Do it Best branch at Myrtletown, that is a national chain that came into private property. Identical to Home Depot moving onto the privately owned balloon tract. Yet Pierson’s is still in business.
More importantly, if Home Depot is the anchor tenant that allows the project to go forward, then I think it is worth the risks.
I shop local. I am aware of the multiplier effect. But I don’t think the people with jobs at Costco would rather work for a locally owned store and give up their retirement, stock options and health care.
On the big box question HiFi is flat out wrong. Virginia needs to explain the healthy ways local businesses can compete with the big box stores, and then she would deserve a passing grade. Her answer as given is more of the vague, airhead junk we are used to from her, so it’s more like a D or an F.
I worked @ Piersons B.S. (not that bs) and it was a great experience. Employees were well respected by the ownership, management on down to the coffee maker for the general public. Employees do get benefits too (not sure of the differences though between then and now). So, hammering on Pierson’s Building Supply is not wise imo considering the facts.
When it comes to Home Depot, WalMart, and the rest of their ilk – employees quit sooner rather than later – it is at that point too the company lessens the benefits to a new employee, or lowered wages, or less hours, etc… just a rookery game of pecking profit from the consumer without it first going through the employee that labored to create that profit. You see, there is “the idea” and then there is “those who take that idea and build it, promote it, sell it, deal with the wastes of it, etc.” – truly a collective of creation and thus a bargaining relationship.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Ken B Jr. Here is the link to the Home Depot story
http://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/show-me-the-home-depot/
* 2007 Home Depot waves goodbye to CEO Nardelli, who ran the company during the proposal to locate in Eureka.
* 2007 Home Depot sells their wholesale construction supply business.
* 2008 Home Depot says it’s closing 15 underperforming stores and scuttling earlier plans to open 50 others.
* 2009 Home Depot cuts 7,000 jobs, closes 34 Expo Design Centers, 5 Yardbird Store, and 7 bath remodeling businesses.
* 2008-2009 Home Depot closes 54 stores nationwide.
* 2010 Home Depot closes 3 stores; announces 1,000 layoffs
The people working at Costco who “believe” so much in their health plan, retirement plans, etc.. need only do an about face back toward the mirror to know that they might just not GET what they thought they were.
It is like a 30 year mortgage – are you guaranteed a job for those 30 years?
Nope!
Hence – those benfits, as juicy as they MAY look now on paper, don’t mean squat until you actually have THAT benefit SECURE. Now, if you can’t tap into one of these benefits until later; or, find that your benefit is less what it used to actively provide, then again – an about face.
IN life – death and taxation are the only 2 guarantees.
Heck, people are too afraid to manage their own lives, so instead, they become employees who take a pay cut and let some union thugs tell them that they need them to be their financial insurer just as wall street does daily – posers!
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Thanks for the link, Goldie.
It doesn’t look clear that Home Depot is a for sure thing.
It reminds me of the time my brother said we would go skiing and then he broke his leg. Things Change.
For Ken Jr.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home_depot_svc.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home_depot_credit.html
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/homeowners/home_depot_insider.html
Mike,
I looked at your links, and they seem to be mainly complaints from customers. I agree. Pierson’s gives better customer service. In fact I went there today myself. Twice. Both times people were helpful.
My argument is that it is unfair to lump the company in with Walmart.
Look, I don’t like Home Depot. I am just saying that people have a right to shop there if they choose. I will personally continue to shop local.
By way of disclosure, have you mentioned on this website that you are Bonnie’s web designer?
Buettner? Explains his never ending posts about Bass.
Why should Mike Buettner “disclose” the fact that he donates time and talent to campaigns he supports?
Ken, here are two diaries (just from the last couple of months) from a very well known national blog about HD and their employee practices:
Screwing the Unemployed for Fun and Profit
and
The Home Depot Misery Index.
You should never say “never” about things online without first consulting the google.
Save your Home Depot words and energy for when the issue actually comes up because, for now, it doesn’t look like they will be building one in Eureka anytime soon anyway. The focus really should be on the candidaets and what they do or don’t bring to the table.
Titan, agreed, lets go back to the candidates. We got off topic on HD, but the issue is the continually stymied form of almost all types of development, and where the candidates fit on that spectrum.
06em, I read your links, sad stories both.
Back to the candidates. I watched the sentinel interview of all three candidates today. My impression was:
Virginia Bass: WTF? Does this woman know anything about any issue facing the city let alone the county? Worst candidate interview I have ever seen.
Jeff Leonard: Too stiff, maybe a bit rushed not his usual personable self, but knew what the interviewer was asking and had answers as well as some idea of what he would and could accomplish as a county supervisor.
Bonnie Neely: Same old same old. Polished professional politician taking credit for everything good that’s happened on the planet in the past 24 years. The usual name dropping of dignitaries. She hasn’t figured out it’s time for her to go. Maybe it isn’t.
Overall impression: If people start watching the debates, forums and interviews, VB should be toast unless the voter’s collective IQ’s are under 60. Bonnie is so disliked she will not be able to make it on her “experience” and Jeff may squeak in under the radar because he is at least a “real” person who has actually done something for the community as a councilman without the baggage of special interests.
It is going to be interesting, that’s for sure. Anyone else watch channels 11 & 12?? If not you should.
c’mon– you anonymusn’t be serious re: jeff l. “as a councilman without the baggage of special interests.”
jl is a complete tool, albeit one adjudged to be incompetent and unworthy of support by the developer power structure funding vb.
i agree that her ignorance of issues was profound and embarrassing. seems that all those contributors have bought into a “sarah palin” candidacy. woe is them!
bonnie talks straight and deals with issues like a grown-up with tens of thousands of masters competing to have their personal issues dealt with in their favor. Some are happy– some never will be– and are usual dissatisfied with their new choice soon enough as well. Bonnie has a clear vision of what is required for the well-being of the community overall– the details of which you and i and every other citizen will disagree with at any give time on any given issue.
there’s only one choice for 4th dist. supe– bonnie has the chops and the other two are posers & puppets!
Hey Ken, you mention of local folks driving to Crescent City to shop at Home Depot. I’ve only known maybe one or two people doing this, and they were both local contractors who were buying in bulk and needed to save every last penny to keep the margins up.
Everybody else seems to shop either at Pierson’s, Hensel’s, or one of the other local Ace stores.
I’m I way off base here?
every local contractor with a half a brain knows that Schmidbauers is the place for lumber at competitive prices
Any margin gained in lower prices on a few items will evaporate in the inevitably rising cost of gasoline
You got it right. Very few people driving to HD up in Crescent City or Redding, except for those who didn’t do their math.
Like the other two posts above, I did a double take when 3:16 called Jeff “the candidate without the baggage of special interests.” IMHO, Arkley and the rest of the local developer community are only supporting Virginia because, between her and Jeff, she simply represents the candidate with greater winnability (borne out in poll after poll). Virginia is sweet; Jeff, annoying. But watch how fast Virginia’s backers rush to Jeff if somehow he is the one who ends up squaring off against Bonnie in the fall (as if they would even CONSIDER going to Bonnie). And, may I point out, that some big local developers have already gone to Jeff (e.g. Greg Pierson), recognizing that at least he represents the brainier and more capable of the two (or is it just because little guys like to stick together? Okay, I apologize for that cheap shot).
Bolithio Says:
April 30, 2010 at 3:13 pm
“I think any jobs will improve the economy”.
Great, I’ve been looking for a pro-growth neighbor for my pig farm, where do you live? No? Changed your mind? You’re not one of those “commie social-engineers” are you?
It’s no wonder Mr. Bareilles tag-teams with this guy. To paraphrase: “I’m no fan of Home Depot…but I support Home Depot…”.
Competent language skills poorly mask the stink of support for more low wage jobs in a community already saturated in them. Ken’s outrageous claims betray this support.
I know many contractors in this county and unless the job is in Crescent City NONE would even think about driving 3 long hours to shop at Home Depot. If your time were worthless, or unless Grandma lives there, it makes no sense to put the kids in the car for 3-hours to save $50 on a car-load of hardware.
The issue of jobs, planning, and poverty are too important for the blatant lack of credibility illustrated by these posters.
To say I support Home Depot is a major stretch.
Rather I would paraphrase myself as follows:
It is a major stretch to say that Home Depot or any oter Big Box store is the same as Walmart, which the voters soundly rejected several years ago. (I don’t like Walmart either.)
And, I am for additional benefitted positions coming to Eureka. By way of illustration, last fall there was a tiny add in the classifieds for a Plumbing counter sales position at Ferguson, a British Owned Plumbing Distributor located adjacent to the balloon tract. Selling fittings at the counter of a plumbing wholesale store. I stopped in to ask how many applications had been received. Over 50.
People in this county want jobs that come with benefits. They want to be in a Health Care pool.
Tourism doesn’t tend to offer those types of jobs.
I’m all for Tourism, but we need to expand the private sector job base for this county.
In the last 24 years with Bonnie representing the 4th District, the private sector job base has steadily contracted. This includes boom and bust cycles in the national economy. Two full generations of college educated Humboldt County natives have left the area.
The only viable business plans in this county are halfway houses, grow houses, and working for the government, be it Federal, State, County, City, or Education.
I support Jeff Leonard, I am tired of watching a steady slow deterioration of this County’s economy. I think it is time for new ideas. I have watched him work, work, work for this City for the last eight years. And I think he would bring a great focus to the Board of Supervisors.
So tell us what Jeff will do.
At curent gas prices, you’d be a fool to drive to Crescent City to “save a few bucks” at Home Depot. Then there is the cost for the time spent driving. This is a red herring.
Maybe build a dog park? Or another skateboard park? Or perhaps add his name to stuff that would have happened anyway?
He can stick up for cell phone companies against the interests of his constituents.
Ken, everyone wants more jobs with benefits.
But the issue you keep sidestepping is that Home Depot would not result in any NET increase in jobs. Hiring at Home Depot would be offset by layoffs/attrition at other building supply outfits.
Not sure whether you are incapable of grasping this simple concept, or you’re just being disengenous by ignoring it.
I often point to the skate park because it is a concrete example of a large project that required a long sustained effort. What I think it illustrates about Jeff is that he is willing to keep plugging away at a project until it gets to a conclusion. That type of sustained effort is needed by our county to attract jobs to the area.
Take the fishermans terminal. They are building it right now as we speak. That will be a support for the local fishermen as they try to continue to make their livelihood here. I don’t know the numbers, but I thought I heard that was a couple million dollar project. I believe Jeff went up to Seattle to lobby for that money on behalf of the City. That is what we need.
Heraldo, you mention the cell phone tower. I know some people didn’t like it, but it went through the process and was approved. Jeff was one vote for it.
I know someone in a previous thread said that they met with Jeff to say they were against it. At least Jeff met with them. He is willing to listen, sometimes people disagree, but at least he meets up with them at their request.
reasonable at 1:56
You make a fair point that perhaps jobs at Home Depot or some other big box store in that location would take away from jobs at other building supply stores.
My point all along, and I’ve stated it in other threads, is that the property needs to be developed and added back onto the tax rolls. Once this is done, an opportunity is created for some business to come in and add net jobs to the area.
If the habitat is there, some organism will eventually find it and figure out a way to survive there, creating jobs in the process. The process might be painful for some, but overall it would be an eventual net add to the local economy.
Additionally, the development and build out of the project would be a short term boost to the local economy. How many General Contractors and subcontractors do you know that are eating steak right now?
Mr Bareilles,
You seem to have mistaken the “economy”, a strictly human construct, with a natural ecosystem.
In the latter, yes every niche is eventually filled and dynamic equilibrium is maintained.
Not so in a human economy where the “natural” balance between resource utilization, energy inputs and all the various outputs– positive and negative as well as internal and external– is not in balance.
Human economies are sub-systems of the natural ecosystem, not the other way around.
And that is the mutant mega-mastodon in the room with every yabbering politician blowing hot air past their lips as they talk “economic development”.
How about an economy that meets the needs of local people. How about an economy that focuses on meeting those needs with local resources as much as possible. i’m not talking about a “nothing in- nothing out” economy without trade.. I’m talking about local resilience and independence.
Shipping profits out of the county is a no-win proposition for us and every other local economy.
You’ve lost me Ken. Are you suggesting that if Home Depot fails, or whichever big box SN chooses to fill the space fails, something will eventually succeed in it’s shell? Given the left over shell, parking lot, etc. wouldn’t this no doubt be another big box type store?
Once again, the argument comes right back to whether big box retail is appropriate for this site, and our area in general.
All of these arguments about building materials and Chinese, melamine, lead-laced, crap products are so 2006. This dead cat bounce in the stock market is not lasting, look at the marks today. Nobody can flip a house, so why the fuck do we need a Home Depot?
Good contractors don’t shop at that bitch anyway. They know full well about the subtle difference in quality between stainless steel and PVC.
Anonymous 10:41
“You’ve lost me Ken. Are you suggesting that if Home Depot fails, or whichever big box SN chooses to fill the space fails, something will eventually succeed in it’s shell? Given the left over shell, parking lot, etc. wouldn’t this no doubt be another big box type store?”
Anonymous, that is exactly what I’m suggesting. You are right that one of the most likely replacements is another big box. But look at these examples from Eureka along the 4th/5th Broadway Corridor:
1. Pay N Pak (Big Box building materials) was converted into Broadway Cinema 8.
2. Mark and Save and Payless (nationwide retail chains) were converted into the Humboldt Bank Plaza (essentially a call center)
3. Big Loaf Bakery (local manufacturing) was converted into the Co-op (local retail).
My point is that the location has economic viability, but not until a cleanup is authorized and completed.
That is Jeff’s whole point about the Balloon Tract. Get it cleaned up. Once it is cleaned up the market will eventually fill it with an appropriate use. But it has sat vacant for over 20 years, and it is unattractive for private capital to come in and do something with it, due to the magnitude of the unknowns. Any progress at this particular location is better than no progress.
Jeff is not working to get the Balloon Track cleaned up, Ken. Perhaps you’ve forgotten my last post. I pointed out that Jeff ignored the well-described illegalities in the EIR in regard to the cleanup plan, approved it anyway, then whined about it when it was predictably flagged by the Coastal Commission. He and Virginia then engaged in the political stunt of calling a press conference to blame Bonnie for the stalled cleanup. Afterward, he travelled to SF hoping to convince someone – anyone! – that the proposed cleanup wasn’t illegal – and billed the city for travel expenses.
Jeff didn’t do his homework, and then on top of it, had the temerity to blame his opponent for enforcing state and city coastal cleanup regulations. A great example of Jeff using poor judgment and being duplicitous at the same time.
But this interferes with your narrative, so you’ve decided to ignore the facts.
Why didn’t Jeff ever pursue a clean up with Union Pacific? How long had he been on the City Council before Arkley purchased the property and never a word about cleaning up the Balloon Track?
Like my son, Jeff is just a puppet , and he’s almost as smart as a piece of wood to boot.
Mike, the place has been a blight for a lot longer than Jeff has been in office. But Bonnie didn’t fix it either. The thing is, it is a piece of Private Property. When SN came to the city of Eureka with a plan to purchase the property and clean it up and do a project there, Jeff said ‘sounds good’.
Neal,
What irregularities are you talking about? I thought the City Council voted on it and that there were city staff recommendations at the time that it was in compliance.
“That is Jeff’s whole point about the Balloon Tract. Get it cleaned up. Once it is cleaned up the market will eventually fill it with an appropriate use.”
He should have thought about that 10 years ago. Why did he waste all that time? He could have had staff pursue a clean up with UP.
“But Bonnie didn’t fix it either.”
When was the balloon track (tract?) ever under the authority of the BOS? Hasn’t it always been inside the city limits and subject to the city council’s decisions?
Republicans keep repeating the same refrain:
“My point all along is that the Balloon Tract must be put back into the tax rolls”. (“Forget all that malarkey about anyone driving 180 miles to shop at Home Depot”).
And yet, there’s NO EVIDENCE that the low-wage national retailer development model contributes more to the tax base than it extracts! This isn’t rocket science and local taxpayers have the right to demand if any large development represents a net-loss. Eureka citizens agreed, giving Wal-Mart the boot, even the Headwaters Board agreed and offered to fund a study on the best use of the public-zoned Balloon Tract, an offer thoroughly rejected by Bass and Leonard’s sprawl/mall agenda.
There is lots of research, however, on the economic multipliers from LOCAL ownership of manufacturing, industry, small businesses, and the benefits of in-fill development, but this represents a new direction bitterly rejected by the Arcata-haters, despite Arcata’s successful industrial parks, incubator, chain store and inclusionary zoning ordinances…and highest per-capita tax base.
It has been known for generations that policies assisting the poorest in our community also assist every class that rests upon them. But this is a fundamental democratic principle that conflicts with Bass and Leonard’s radical and dangerous faith-based, top-down economic development ideology.
Yes, the BT has been polluted longer than Jeffy’s been on the Council BUT he NEVER pushed to get Union Pacific to clean it up. It is the City’s responsibility, NOT the county’s. That means it was Jeffy’s job, NOT Bonnie’s. If the ball was dropped, at least blame the right party. Remember, Jeff cast the deciding vote to cancel the Public Planning process that was underway (and funded!) for the Balloon Track. He also proclaimed the very inadequate Marina Center EIR “One of the Ten Best EIRs I’ve ever read”. As if he spends his nights reading EIRs. What a HOOT!!!
Now he’s championing “campaign finance reform” in the form of contribution caps. The problem with caps is that anyone can get around them by simply giving family members, friends, and anyone else the money to make the capped contributions for them. It’s impossible to police. The solution that arose at HIS OWN workshop at the Wharfinger was to greatly lower the COST of city elections by going to Ward voting. That would eliminate the need for big media buys and let each candidate walk his/her ward and really get to know his/her constituents. It’s the only real way to lower the influence of money. The crowd at the workshop was nearly unanimous in supporting the idea and nearly unanimous in rejecting a contribution caps. GUESS WHAT? When it was proposed to the Council to put it on the November ballot so WE could decide, Jeffy cast the critical vote AGAINST it. He wouldn’t even let US decide. To her everlasting credit, Virginia said nothing because she apparently had no idea what we were talking about!
Reinventing,
Republicans may say that, but please don’t call me one. I am a registered Democrat. I voted for Obama, I donated to Al Franken and ten other Senator’s campaigns. I even donated to Bill Halter against Blanche Lincoln in the Democratic Primary in Arkansas.
This county is so out of whack in regards to the national left right spectrum that solid Union guys like Richard Marks are called conservative.
Look around this county, there are big box stores all over the place, Target, Kmart, Sears, Costco, etc. They are everywhere, but no one protested any of them, because Arkley wasn’t involved. I’m not his fan. I don’t work for him or have a bumper sticker or sweatshirt.
I think people are using the environment as an excuse to be anti Arkley, in the same way the spotted owl was used against Hurwitz. No one was clamoring for UP to clean the site up, and they are the ones who messed it up. But when the local personal billionaire, who tends to throw his weight around, got involved, everyone got upset.
I’m tired of it. I’m not for Arkley, but I’m also not for the people who seem to derive their meaning for existence from being against him.
Check the donations, who did Arkley donate to? Not Jeff. Who opposes him at every turn, also not Jeff.
I think that a vote for Virginia on the Right, or Bonnie on the left is just another vote for the same old paralyzing dichotomy in this county.
I’m voting for Jeff Leonard, the one in the middle.
“They are everywhere, but no one protested any of them, because Arkley wasn’t involved.”
What a load of crap Ken.
“The well-publicized dispute between the Environmental Protection Information Center and the city of Eureka over a proposed Target store at the north end of town boils down to differing interpretations of the city’s General Plan.
EPIC says the city is allowing Target to build closer to the Eureka Slough than is allowed by its own guidelines. The city says those same guidelines allow for greater flexibility than EPIC is claiming.
EPIC is hoping the California Coastal Commission will consider its challenge to the city’s decision. City officials say additional hearings could delay the project for weeks or months.”
http://www.northcoastjournal.com/011603/news0116.html#anchor522278
Mike,
Thank you for the link.
You and I are obviously on different sides of this argument. I say that because I read the link and felt it proved my point.
from your link to the North Coast Journal:
“That section states, “The city shall require establishment of a buffer for permitted development adjacent to all environmentally sensitive areas. The minimum width of the buffer shall be 100 feet…”
But a closer read of that section appears to favor the city’s position: “…unless the applicant for the development demonstrates on the basis of site specific information, the type and size of the proposed development, and/or proposed mitigation (such as planting of vegetation) that will achieve the purpose(s) of the buffer, that a smaller buffer will protect the resources of the habitat area.”
This seems like a perfect example of people not wanting a competing business to enter their playing field, and using environmentalism to try to stop it. This is a crippling problem in Humboldt County.
According to the article, EPIC did not have a problem with the problem at a previous meeting, but then started a protest after being encouraged by small business owners in the area.
I encourage people to read the article. It states that Jeff met with the Coastal Advocate for EPIC prior to approving the permit.
Hey KBJ,
it is nice to see your comments. I do question the choices of politicians you donated to. Al Franken – you have got to be kidding.
Democrats and republicans have a long ways to go in so far as reality is concerned. I just hope YOU feel your money was well spent.
Anyhow, again good to see your involvement on the blogs!
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
I remember a whole lot of protesting about Costco coming and where they were building, even from businesses they wouldn’t be competing with but just sharing the same off Broadway streets. Many people opposed the location of the Bayshore mall as well, feeling that was poor use of that particular land and that it would have a negative impact on downtown.
Ken: No, you are voting for Bonnie. A vote for Jeff is in fact, a vote for Bonnie. All of those signs you see in Eureka with Jeff and Bass signs? Do you think either are voting for Bonnie? No. And Jeff will not pull 20%. Polls before and present show the same trend. So if you vote for Jeff and he spoils Bass attempt at 50% in June, it will be you and all other Jeff supporters.
Oh, and by the way, all Bonnie supporters are hoping Jeff stays in! What does that tell you?
Bonniehelper @8:34
“Oh, and by the way, all Bonnie supporters are hoping Jeff stays in! What does that tell you?”
Bonniehelper, If thats what you really thought, I don’t see why you would put the argument on the blogs.
The Bass supporters say Jeff should drop out. The Bonnie supporters slam him whenever they can.
I think the one thing neither Virginia or Bonnie wants to deal with is a 1 on 1 runoff against Jeff in November.
anonymust Says:
May 2, 2010 at 3:16 pm
Back to the candidates. I watched the sentinel interview of all three candidates today. My impression was:
Virginia Bass: WTF? Does this woman know anything about any issue facing the city let alone the county? Worst candidate interview I have ever seen.
Jeff Leonard: Too stiff, maybe a bit rushed not his usual personable self, but knew what the interviewer was asking and had answers as well as some idea of what he would and could accomplish as a county supervisor.
Bonnie Neely: Same old same old. Polished professional politician taking credit for everything good that’s happened on the planet in the past 24 years. The usual name dropping of dignitaries. She hasn’t figured out it’s time for her to go. Maybe it isn’t.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5RCHLQrIl8 for those of us without crappy cable tv…and yeah my impression is about the same as yours