Keep it tuned to the Humboldt Herald as we follow along with tonight’s 3-ring circus Eureka City Council meeting.
The Council will decide whether to put zoning changes for the blighted Balloon Track — site of a planned big box development called “Marina Center” — on the November ballot.
Watch the meeting live on Channel 10 or from ground zero at City Hall, 531 K Street, Eureka. Updates will follow in the comment thread below. If you’re watching, feel free to participate.
UPDATE (10:15pm): The Council voted 3-2 to put the measure on the ballot.
Heraldo,
You may be in for more than you expected with tonight’s meeting.
“it still must be sent to the Coastal Commission for certification.”
And it won’t matter one bit for this project if Neely doesn’t get re-elected–the Coastal Commission will never approve this, because it is contrary to state law.
What a waste of time, energy, money.
Having sat through all these Marina Center meetings, I know what I’m in for.
What’s that? David Tyson is retiring? So much for planning news, Tyson out in January.
City Attorney: Downzoning is always dangerous. It’s litigation bait. Once you upzone it’s difficult to downzone later.
The City of Eureka is so dumb. They think they can go around the Coastal Commission, violate the California Coastal Act…
Jeff Leonard is asking pre-planned questions. You can tell Sidnie practiced these answers, unlike the previous bunch.
A straw man argument.
Can’t exclude Wal-Mart. So says Sidnie and Sheryl Schaffner.
that’s why Jeff will be his own man with his Dad on his ass. Weak man….poor Jeff, I actually think he could be an alright guy if Daddy wasn’t breathing down his neck. Oh well, he’ll be out of the picture in a few weeks.
Jeff Leonard is appallingly ignorant.
well yes, …..and then there’s that.
Jones isn’t any better. God, this is embarrassing.
“Jeff Leonard is appallingly ignorant.”
If you could provide a little more detail, I would be less ignorant about which portion of his own ignorance Jeff is putting on display at the moment.
Linda Atkins: If measure is passed, we would be taking this on as project ourselves. It would be the city of Eureka’s responsibility instead of the developers.
Sidnie Olson: Yes.
Jeff asked if the measure would somehow speed up clean up of the property. Maybe he doesn’t know what everyone’s talking about. Or perhaps he is using the dias as his soapbox for his campaign. But that’s some serious backfire.
Linda Atkins: If measure is passed, we would be taking this on as project ourselves. It would be the city of Eureka’s responsibility instead of the developers.
Sidnie Olson: Yes.
…wow! if this dopes take this on . Basically saying “SN can dump the clean-up on the city?”
“Jeff asked if the measure would somehow speed up clean up of the property…perhaps he is using the dias as his soapbox for his campaign.”
Or perhaps he is using the dias as a soapbox to spew Arkley’s talking points, and was hoping that the answer might at least be “maybe.” Which it isn’t.
Jones falsely says an anonymous donor paid for his trip to the coastal commission last year.
Jeff again talking about the clean-up, which has nothing to do with the proposed measure.
Maybe he didn’t get the agenda report.
This is a disaster-in-the-making for the city, ,money wise, as just evidenced in Linda’s question and Olson’s answer. Isn’t there anyone there with a brain that can see that? Oh wait, I guess I can answer that one for myself.
Maybe he’s using the soapbox to reach the mic.
Sure hope the voters aren’t this stupid.
You know the movie “Dumb and Dumber”… guess which city council members could be in the title roles?
I think Grey Goose Vodka sponsored the Jones trip.
LA: We can stomp our feet all we want but won’t change state law. CCC will hear appeal when it’s ready. Wasn’t time to go talk to CCC because they were still waiting for info during appeal?
SO: Correct.
See there? City Staff AGAIN confirms the trip to the coastal commission was a waste of time and money, and a political stunt on behalf of Arkley.
No one ran against Jones, right?
Randy Gans: Here again, been here for 4.5 years. Produced 1800 pages of studies and findings. spent nearly $6 million on consultants and lawyers. not one ounce of contamination has been moved, not one job created. Is raising taxes and cutting public services the only option? Let’s build something, let’s create jobs. Give people a chance and a choice to vote on Marina Center. Security National takes care of its employees. the People’s voice is being silenced. We all know it’s environmentally sensitive. Those wetlands are junk, don’t support any habitat. Why can’t a certain business man have an honest debate with this community about his motives. We have our suspicions.
Was once good enough for a jail. Why not for good jobs and walking and biking trails. Send message to bureaucrats. Put it on ballot.
Tea time.
Gans is wrong, of course. Ballot measure is NOT about Marina Center. Sidnie Olson just explained that repeatedly to the thick-headed cheerleaders on the city council.
Not wrong. Lying.
Another SN rep is railing about Bill Pierson and his contributions to progressive candidates.
Amazing. None of this is about the measure, but about Arkley’s political posturing.
What a nice legacy for Tyson this mess will be
Atkins: point of order. Address the issue.
Bass: He can go on.
Jeff: seriously, can we talk about ballot measure? That’s why we’re here.
Atkins: saying all no votes came from Bill Pierson funded candidates is wrong. I voted yes.
Bass: Keep people’s names out of it.
I’m not amazed, or the least bit surprised. The Arkleyites will be throwing in everything but the kitchen sink, irrelevance be damned.
I can’t help picturing Arkley as the kid who packs up his marbles and leaves when the other kids don’t wanna play by his rules. Forever the bully in the sandbox, and creating a lot of little buddies in his image. Hard to believe he is a grown-up, and one with money, sad and scary.
“Keep people’s names out of it” — V. Bass.
Cherie Arkley: It’s private property. Doesn’t feel like it right now. Threatening letters sent to our house and business. Hired the best experts. Have a pretty good track record for building in eureka. It is time for action and jobs. No more talk, lets more forward. What do you want Balloon Track to look like in 5 years? I want to know what citizens think?
hahaha Cherie Arkley wants to know what the people want to see at the Balloon Track!! Like we have no memory…can you say Headwaters Fund grant? Remeber Cherie?
Arkley: let’s stop the frivolous lawsuits. Have a check for $30,000 to city of Eureka (gives it to the clerk). I know there will be howls and screaming that we are buying the election.
Cherie also appears to not know that this is about a zoning change and not the project.
Private, polluted, publicly-zoned property, yes.
She reminds me of Dick Cheney.
Cherie Cherie Cherie, can you just get the cleanup done right first, please?
LA: why don’t you apply for GP amendment?
CA: we’ve done the EIR. We want it on the ballot in November. We’ve been through all these hoops. Let’s just get it done.
LA: we certified the EIR. The next step is the zoning change, and that could come from the developer.
SO: they’ve submitted the application.
CA: I just want it on the ballot.
LA: just asking why you don’t want to move forward.
CA: I’m trying to move it forward.
once they pay for it, it can no longer be a City sponsored measure. Can you say lawsuit? idiots.
Those two are great together. Hang on, Lar!
Why don’t we start a petition drive to get a ballot initiative asking the voters how they would like the BT to be zoned?
Randy Gans: Why are we jumping ahead and putting it to a vote of the people. No one knows better how badly this can be manipulated than me. We’ve got a certified EIR. 40 acres in teh heart of the city. It’s in a political quagmire. It will all have to go through design review. Just want to reaffirm this is what the public wants.
Larry Glass: Get what you’re saying. But you could do it with an advisory vote that says “We love the Marina Center, yes or no.” Seems like cleaner and less expensive way to go.
Gans: we’re going through a process with bureaucrats and state agencies. We need to see a thing that says we want mixed use development with Home improvement retailer. (none of this on proposed ballot measure)
Glass: your ballot measure won’t say any of that.
Gans: I want zoning certified by EIR. want to send message to coastal commission and state lands commission.
How about starting that “message” with the info the Coastal Commission has already asked for? Just a thought, Randyman.
Mel McKinney: I’m opposed to this project. developers attempting to circumvent the process to avoid clean up of property. Been doing it ever since he started. when this project started they were supposed to get it cleaned up and then bring zoning to city council. that’s being circumvented as well. Zoning has never been an issue. Project further stalled because Arkley has not gone out to get permits from fish and game and army corps of engineers. Could have started cleaning it up last year. But wanted to circumvent process, tried it through water board but that didn’t happen.
OMIG- factual information!
Susie Gaxiola commenting about those damn anonymous bloggers.
She’s no beauty herself.
Did Suzie give it to the Mayor for saying to “keep people’s names out of it”?
THE BALLOT MEASURE IS MEANINGLESS, get it? Meaningless. If Cherie wanted to know what the public wanted, the Arkleys shouldn’t have gotten Jeff Leonard to ax the Headwaters grant for the public process.
http://www.northcoastjournal.com/031606/cover0316.html
In the wake of the Wal-Mart debacle, Eureka had started down a similar road. The city applied for and received a $50,000 grant from the county’s Headwaters Fund, and planned to match that sum with money from its redevelopment agencies. The money would have funded a study aimed at identifying state and federal grant money that could have been used to clean up the Balloon Track and to develop, through a series of community meetings, ideas for development that had the broad support of the citizenry.
But, in late 2004, after the Arkley family privately made it known to members of the City Council that it was in negotiations to purchase the property, the city abruptly changed course. The grant from the Headwaters Fund was returned and the study abandoned. Councilmember Jeff Leonard, who introduced the motion to abandon the study (to much confusion, at the time), later said that he feared that it might ruin the city’s best chance to get the Balloon Track developed. This may prove to be a mistake. (And ironically, not its first: Arkley offered to donate money to buy the parcel for the city back in 2001. The council turned down the offer, saying that it did not want to assume liability for the site’s pollution problems.)…
Tom Peters: Process must be followed. EIR, various permits, then comes to request a zoning change. Process has not been followed. EIR subject of lawsuit. Gans and SN ask for end run around city procedures, exactly like Walmart did 12 years ago. Coastal Commission must approve changes anyway. If SN would resolve issues with coastal commission and state lands it will come around in normal procedure. Walmart got zoning on ballot with signatures after council rejected it. What kind of precedent is it that one can pay the city for a ballot measure?
Karen Wasson: small minority say Marina Center is a bad idea. Jobs during construction. retail, trails, condos on waterfront, good place for tourism. Much needed tax for our city. To do nothing we’re left with blight. Let community show support for Arkleys.
Real Estate broker. We’ll hear from personnel people and neighboring property owners, too. A lot of people think they will profit and can’t see much else.
Let the arkleys show support for the community and do the cleanup right I think you mean.
Good point about the precedent that would be set by taking a developer’s money to pay for the ballot measure. It’s hard to imagine that this might not have some effect on whether the Council chooses to put a particular measure on the ballot. Indeed, that is why Arkley handed over a check today, he wants to take away the argument that the measure will cost the city money it can’t afford.
The problem is that there would then be THREE ways to get something on the ballot: (1) gather signatures, (2) ask the Council to put it on the ballot with the City paying for it as usual, and now (3) ask the Council to put it on the ballot, with the added sweetener of having the developer (or other special interest or wealthy individual) pay for the ballot measure.
Not good. Not good at all.
Neal Latt: address comment by Leona Simpson who blamed opposition for stopping MC. Only thing holding up is SN by stonewalling CCC. SIRAP is illegal as noted by CCC. Why is common sense so demonized by project proponents. This will do nothing to get project back on track. But will open up parcel to be tenanted by WalMart. No guarantees by Home Depot. They’e closed roughly 60 stores, WalMart been after Eureka for the last 12 years. Overwhelming vote in 1999 to keep WalMart off our waterfront. If Home Depot bows out the zoning should revert back to public zoning.
$30,000 is cheap for a city council, I would think.
Simpson owns Sequoia Personnel Services. Wonder if she has any personal profit here?
Jane Stock: Going to get personal. Jones, on May 4 you asked if this item needed to be on agenda after 8 years on council? Same with Dec 2009 last minute letter not on the agenda. Jager, T-S article on True Ward ballot proposal, said couldn’t afford it. Jager said council was rushing into changes. Is 2 weeks enough time between introduction of this item and approval of ballot measure? Leonard: you say you oppose big money and don’t support special interests. How many others could afford to buy a ballot measure?
Thanks for the updates H. I don’t have a TV so I’m missing all the fun.
Wow, Ms. Stock came out swingin’!
Rex Bohn: We’re not going to get a walmart on the site. This has sat around for 4.5 years. Applicant is probably worried about process. They’re not buying the election, they’re paying for the process of the election. They’re taking the expenses away from the city. Went to Home Depot today. They get medical benefits. Most of the money comes south of Orick. Mercer Fraser across the street from BT, wants to see it cleaned up and developed.
Rex Bohn “we’re not going to get a walmart on the site”
I’m assuming this was paraphrased, not a direct quote. Nevertheless, the question is how Rex can make such a promise? Once the zoning is changed, ANY big box could go there, including WalMart.
rex bone(er) is another bea-a-a-ach of the Ark’s.
Did anyone ask if the check was still good?
Marianne Brady: all agencies, state lands, water quality, coastal commission and all the special interests have created roadblocks. City approved EIR, SIRAP. It’s stalled at coastal commission. CCC doesn’t want clean up.
Heraldo: Another example of Arkley-driven ignorance and buck-passing in Eureka.
Anyone taking (virtual) bets on what the outcome will be — will the Council vote to put the zone change on the ballot, and who will vote which way? By the way, do they have to act on the request tonight, or can they kick the can down the road another week or two?
Jim Clark: a lot of comments not related to issue at hand. Great emphasis on short term jobs. Construction jobs benefit for a while. Don’t see people flocking to Humboldt because there’s a Home Depot here. Urge you not to put it on ballot.
It will likely be 3-2 for the measure. But Frank is the swing and could do the right thing. We’ll see. Jeff Leonard will abandon his campaign talk and vote for big money tonight.
I guess Ms, Brady didn’t mention that the Marina Center propsal is stalled at the Coastal Commission because of the inadequate City-approved EIR & SIRAP, because of Arkley’s lawsuit over jurisdication, and because of Arkley’s failure to supply the Coastal Commission with the documentation it needs to move ahead. Those little points just slipped her mind somehow…
Do they have to vote on it tonight?
Rich Ames calls Baykeeper a “terrorist group” while wearing a Marina Center sweatshirt.
Stockbroker Rich Ames.
They don’t have a lot of time to kick it down the road. Time is short. City has to contract out to have the measure written.
If someone is terrified of the Baykeeper folks, they’ve got to be the world’s biggest sissies.
Way to deflate the value of the word “terrorist,” Mr. Ames.
Ken Barr: live in 1st ward: afraid that I have to ask you not to put it on ballot. would open up a lot of nasty stuff that this city doesn’t need. there’s already a process for a project like this. Remind you the coastal act was put there by a vote of the people. Put on state agenda by last popular petition without using paid signature gatherers. Coastal Commission has long and honorable history. EPIC and Baykeeper, too, almost always win. Don’t see how this will cause anything but trouble because there is an established process. It works well, has served the state well. Don’t need this to stir up discontent and problems in the city.
Who called the Baykeepers a Terrorist Organization?
Oh, I am caught up now
See Heraldo @8:45
Doh!
Polly Endert: learned as councilmember you must listen to people. while running heard a lot of excitement about Marina Center. Only way to listen to people is put it on the ballot. Hope you do that tonight.
Yeah, screw the process.
Gee, it is almost 9 PM. This is going to be a long meeting.
The only way to listen to people is to put it on the ballot? Oh, never mind.
Pierre: Only come out of the woodwork once in a while. Donate to this community. Help anyone who needs it. Moved here in 1989, Vietnam Vet. I love this place. This is God’s country. I lived in New Mexico. Home Depot moved in and shut down all little hardware stores in my community. Shut down every single one of the Ma and Pa hardware stores. People move here because we are a haven of natural habitat. Believe Arkley’s are fine people, done wonderful job, wonderful employees. They’ll do wonders on new project. I’m dead against the Home Depot. Put it to a vote.
Beverly Wolff: Son graduating from high school, can’t stay here. If he leaves here I will too. Why not put it on the ballot? This is a democracy. Won’t even look at a blog — it’s impossible. Who can afford a $6 million fence on the balloon track? Who can afford to pay for the ballot measure? Rob and Cherie. Put it on the ballot.
Wolff owns Avalon: Scene of The Shove.
What happens when her son marries? Will she move in with him?
(Your summary of) Endert’s statement at 8:55 was the most straightforward and potentially persuasive argument that the pro- Marina Center forces have at their disposal. The “voters choice” argument.
Let’s face it, to some extent it’s always harder to argue AGAINST letting the voters weigh in on an issue. And that’s for good reason, it usually DOES make sense to let the voters weigh in on such a major project, and at some point further down the line, such a vote might make good sense.
But at this point it would be completely premature, considering that Arkley is stalling and litigating with the Coastal Commission. Once a clean-up plan is actually completed and clean-up is underway, then they should come ask the council to put it on the ballot, or better yet, collect the signatures like anyone else would have to.
Apparently Arkley & Co. are counting on some voters to think that they’re voting specifically to get a Home Depot, but the actual zone change would allow ANY big-box, including WalMart, to locate there. If the Council votes to send this to the ballot, those of us who oppose a Big-Box-anchored development at the Balloon Track are going to need to pull out all the stops to defeat this thing.
Janine Melser: Seems to me — you have procedure, do things in an order. The applicant taking this process through, seems like it might be faster than the Nov. ballot. Seems like a divisive move to put it on ballot.
Baykeeper a terrorist group? If it weren’t for Baykeeper we’d be terrorized by the orange-vested, $7.00/hr, toxin-exposed big-box workers. Great thing for our children to strive for. You go with your bad-ass ‘pony-tail’ Rich!
Public comment closed. Break time.
Thank God. And that’s 100.
All those comments at the meeting and “the blogs” (codeword for the Humboldt Herald) only came up twice.
Proof positive tonight of the utter lack of civics education, much less any grasp at all of how government works and why. No rule of law, just do it because…well, because: Arkelys are nice people/we need jobs any jobs/I suck up to rich people/I can’t think a coherent thought if my life depended on it/my mind’s made up don’t confuse me with facts.
There is an obviously huge disconnect between what the measure is and what people think it is. And clearly, that misinformation is coming from Security National itself. They want voters to think it’s about Bill Pierson and jobs. Security National will wage a bitter, ugly war between now and November if this thing goes on the ballot, and it will have virtually nothing to do with a zoning amendment.
foxstudio at 915 sums up Virginia and Jeff’s campaigns with his comment, also.
Wrong gender, but thanks anyway, titan.
Humboldt Baykeeper’s attorney said that
1)the voter initiative process is subject to environmental review (CEQA);
2) if the stay is lifted on the lawsuit against the City’s EIR, and Baykeeper wins the lawsuit, the environmental review process will not be valid;
3) if that happens, the ballot initiative will be pointless.
Of course, the ballot initiative will be pointless anyway, because a county election can’t overrule state law (Coastal Act).
Glass: thanks to those who respectively stated their position. People are frustrated the project isn’t going forward. The tree members who support it should put it on as advisory measure. Cheaper and faster way to get to goal line.
Whoever is broadcasting the meeting must be stuck in the bathroom.
Jones: enjoyed anonymity I had before council. Been up here 8 years, sometimes I ask a dumb question. I asked (if this measure had to be on agenda to be voted on) so everyone would be clear. Do I look stupid? Is it written on my forehead? Tickled we have consensus building.
Frank: Would like Gans to address Larry’s comments (on advisory vote).
All the usual players and most of the same old talking points – but a few on each side had some interesting and valid comments. Then, some were just out for a little mud-slinging.
I’m still unclear. If this “zoning change” ends up on the ballot, does that mean the city is then responsible for Balloon Track clean-up and/or development costs. Or do those remain the responsibility of the developer? Is this just a possibility or a certainty? Obviously this was a point Linda Atkins was trying to make (and perhaps did) but the answers did not offer any detail – came across more as implication.
Gans: Last process I went through on clean up. Interim plan was passed by water board, had to resubmit. Unprecidented public comment period. Simpson site did not have public comment period, coastal commission appeal. I came here got a 4-1 vote, and I appreciate that Linda. Didn’t even get to talk to the Coastal Commission, that’s wrong. They want us to build a berm around property? Ridiculous. I want the strongest message sent to these bureaucrats. I don’t trust the process. You want an advisory vote? I want the strongest message possible that we want Marina Center as proposed in the EIR, should not be any deviations. That’s why I’m so set on this process. Otherwise we’ll be back in SF and we won’t get to talk.
Putting a non-binding advisory measure on the ballot does seem like a reasonable compromise. Of course wording it fairly would be the key.
Linda: Some of the comments tonight were hideous. comments about who gave who campaign money. Stirs up division in this community. People in community assume what I think. But it’s a terrible idea to have melee, pit the community against each other, will tear the community apart. Believe that’s the applicants intent based on what they said. I’m not anti-developer. Want to see process done in proper way. We can throw it out to voters but it wont make a difference to coastal commission. But it will tear our community apart. Will be terrible hideous divisive mess, would rather we do this in civil and democratic manner.
Again, if Gans wants to “send a message” perhaps he could preface it with the documentation that the CCC needs and has asked for, only to be stalled by Arkley.
Jeff (still confused about what is in front of the Council): No scientific or environmental reason to stop the clean up.
Naw, “the blogs” means Herald and the Times-Standard racism and death threats comment section. You know, those comments where someone names the suspect three weeks before the police do. That is the downtown Eureka tatted-up meth hoe version of blogs. This one is more civilized, like the Winco pajamas shopper blog or some shit.
I liked Linda’s comment…
I wish Jeff would at least try to be cohesive with his comments.
“Hideous?” That’s a bit much. Look, people on one side are going to point to Pierson’s contributions, and people on the other side are going to point to Arkley’s. So what? That’s part of politics, knowing who is financially supporting each side in various campaigns, including initiatives. Linda’s response seems like a bit of overreaction on that point.
So Jeff does not have a timer?
Good grief Jeff is so full of sh!t.
Jeff: No scientific or environmental reason to stop the clean up. Can’t move forward, system is broken. Science is left out, politics rule. So it will end up at the ballot box. I tried to get lawsuits to stay, tried to get some progress to avoid this battle. Ballot measure needs to reflect the project. Can’t have us talking about WalMart. Make it reflect the EIR. “Do you want the project as described in the EIR?” Want the city to recover costs. Have a little bit to recover on EIR. In 2 weeks we’ll see what ballot measure is.
H, I think you’re letting Jeff off too easy. He’s not confused at all, he’s just acting cynically and attempting to confuse the voters.
Can you paraphrase the motor mouth. That’s why I’m tuned in here – to get the SHORT version.
The people of Eureka should be able to vote on whether or not to go against the CCC and for that matter secede and form the State of Jefferson.
Personally, I think the whole thing is a big waste of time/energy/money. Why is it that rich guys like Arkley/Gans always feel like the normal rules shouldn’t have to apply to them?
Fascinating to watch them still trying to polish that turd and pass it off as a diamond.
Personally, I think the whole thing is a big waste of time/energy/money. Why is it that rich guys like Arkley/Gans always feel like the normal rules shouldn’t have to apply to them?
I think that only the lawyers are the winners here.
Linda: astounded. this proposed ballot measure has nothing to do with cleaning up the Balloon Track. If they win their lawsuit against CCC or move on with the appeal, things will move foreword. Took this long to get here because there are requirements in the state of CA that a developer has to meet. IF you buy polluted property you better get out your checkbook. People want screaming and stamping of feet in Nov. People don’t want the process, they want stamping feet.
“Ballot measure needs to reflect the project. Can’t have us talking about WalMart.”
If there’s a ballot measure, I guarantee we will be talking about WalMart.
One could make a case that the only thing worse than government by professional politicians is gov’t by amateurs. JL will do as Exhibit A.
Glass: I never thought I’d be up here thinking of a faster way to get this project moving faster. But no one’s going for it. Jeff your characterization of cleanup plan is just wrong. I sat at meeting at Wharfinger and heard Water Board staff thanking Baykeeper. Simpson’s cleanup was because of a settlement. Advisor vote would be “do you like the Marina Center as stated in the EIR”. This will be simply a zoning change. It won’t have all the other language you want in it. And it won’t be the clear up or down vote that people were asking for tonight. It would risk lawsuits to change zoning again later.
Jeff is ridiculous. Tonight is a new low for him. Focus, man, focus!
Linda has fast become my favorite local elected official.
Linda: the measure has nothing to do with cleaning up the site. Nothing to do with the ballot measure. If you want to abrogate your responsibilities and pass it to the voters instead, I guess that’s what you want.
Jeff: I’m not abrogating. If people could have gone out and do the work we wouldn’t be here.
“Personally, I think the whole thing is a big waste of time/energy/money. Why is it that rich guys like Arkley/Gans always feel like the normal rules shouldn’t have to apply to them?”
Ummm, most people think some laws don’t apply to them. MJ/druggies don’t think federal drug laws should apply to them. Quite a few pedestrian don’t think stop lights should apply to them. Same with drivers, with lights, sign, and speed limits. So why complain about rich people?
Jeff seems to be the number one turd-polisher and fake-diamond-shuckster tonight. Wonder if he’s winning or losing more votes due to tonight’s performance?
“Jeff opposes the Big Money attempts to control local politics. He serves the will of the people – NOT SPECIAL INTERESTS.” JL’s campaign website
Way to dumb down the discussion Cap
Just responding to a dumb post.
Frank: agree with Jeff that reason we’re here is process hadn’t worked. turned into legal quagmire. Usual suspects come in and talk about Marina Center. Tina said now it’s time for people to be heard. Makes motion.
Mike: Second.
Linda: Objection has nothing to do with this project. Council is giving up its responsibility. could have vote here before november. This is ridiculous. Sorry we are going this route. The Coastal Commission has a problem, and we are not going to get past it with this measure. We’re stuck because the developer won’t move forward. We could move forward, the developer choses not to.
Larry: waste of time when we have $4.8 million deficit. You could approve this with your three votes, but instead we’re going to fiddle around with this.
Jeff: Does motion include full cost recovery? Tied to EIR?
Frank: Yes.
Mike: if you want to talk about divisiveness, it’s been there for some time. It’s worked its way into the fabric of this council. The silent majority is out there in large numbers.
Linda: There’s been disagreements on this council. There have been people voted in on this council that might be different than people were here before. We’re not outcasts coming from some weird place. We can be respectful.
Here it comes, the turd is presented, all shiny and carefully polished by it’s devotees, served up to the voters on a silver platter. Will the voters bite?
The left is having a hissy fit opposing the people having a vote.
Why?
Because it will prove how totally out of touch you people are. It will prove that Eureka is not Arcata.
Everything else is b/s.
Mike: When I see people at the post office, they don’t say Hi. It’s bubbling up more than it used to. To call this a new divisive war? I’m telling you it’s been there, won’t go away any time soon.
Jeff: Only thing that keeps me sane is this is one issue. Doesn’t mean you can’t step into next issue and make alliances that weren’t there at last issue. How do we fight this fight and then join hands and get something done? Go issue by issue by issue.
Vote 3-2, Glass and Atkins dissenting.
Eureka insular politics is our local economy’s worst enemy.
And the endless institutional disfunction of Eureka continues. Nothing has changed since I was on the civil grand jury in 1991-92. They just make it up as they go along. With two exceptions.
Because it will prove how totally out of touch you people are. It will prove that Eureka is not Arcata.
No, Eureka is Eureka. And WalMart thought they had Eureka in the bag too. It’s a long way to November and this is a big gamble.
But quite frankly, I think this is a hidden blessing for the local environmental movement, which relies too much on lawsuits and really has not done the grassroots groundwork on this issue. It’ll have to do it now.
As if we had a doubt of how the voting would go.
Let’s get this vote bronzed so we can hang it on the heads of Leonard, Jager, Jones, and small-fish Bass in the very near future.
The die is cast. Now the battle begins in earnest.
The good news for the anti-Big Box folks is that there is a good chance of beating this at the ballot box, and at that point ArkleyMart is toast.
Arkley & Co are “all in,” it’s a huge gamble for them, and the outcome is not at all certain. It’s gonna be a real humdinger of a campaign season!
ArkleyMart, or ArkMart for short.
Capdiamont – yeah, b/c we see so many pedestrians going before the city council to get a measure on the ballot to let them jaywalk. Riiiiight…
Mike has always been a buffoon, and Frank seems fogged as usual, but Jeff really takes the cake. I have never ever seen such tortuous thinking. What a piece of work.
Erik Kirk is whistling past the graveyard.
If it is anything less than a resounding victory for the Marina Center, nobody will be more surprised than the opponents.
Every speaker tonight, every poster & Heraldo verified that fact.
No surprise here…the three stooges over sanity by a 3.2 vote.
We’ll see.
If it is anything less than a resounding victory for the Marina Center, nobody will be more surprised than the opponents.
We’ll see. I think they may have awakened the proverbial “sleeping giant.”
High Fiance, what exactly is going to be on the ballot?
I think I agree … Arkleyville is all in on this one…but it it quite likely they don’t have the winning hand.
And another night goes by with nothing being accomplished, but a bunch hoopleheads shouting out crap to each other.
And it won’t make one iota of difference what the vote is, Hi Fi. The CCC and other agencies won’t give a damn.
But really, it’s going to take pounding the pavement – door to door, with real arguments, to defeat it. They will have to dust off the studies commissioned for the WalMart election. They need to come off the technicalities of clean-up processes and bureaucratic requirements. If they do it right it’ll be about WalMart and Home Depot. They need to put up a sign that says “it’s WalMart stupid.”
The minimal turnouts at the meetings so far tell me they’re way out of practice.
HiFi, every speaker did not support this nonsense, as noted here. You’re as willfully ignorant as Jeff Leonard.
Not many comments on the presentation of the check to cover the costs of putting this issue on the ballot. Was that as much of a foregone conclusion as the vote itself? What does this imply for all those owed money by Security National? Good news, I hope.
I think it was an LCP amendment that will go on the ballot. Linda was right. How incredibly divisive and stupid.
The body language of the three council members voting for the measure spoke volumes about the integrity of their votes. Their actual comments were almost as damaging. Jeff will lose hundreds of votes. Virginia can only be thankful that she didn’t have to render an opinion. Bonnie was the winner of this evening.
Perhaps, but there’s an Arkley majority on the City Council. And as seen tonight, it doesn’t matter what is actually in front of them. Jeff “Butterfly” Leonard went on and on about the clean-up, as if that’s what will be on the ballot.
This campaign will be one of the most divisive Eureka has ever seen, and the amount of disinformation will be off the charts. It came straight from the mouths of Randy Gans and Cherie Arkley. They want voters to think it’s a vote for them rather than a zoning amendment.
HiFi takes a lot of ideological stands that seem pretty stupid, that is for sure, but to call him as ignorant as Jeff Leonard is a real low blow. Jeff has this sewed up. It is hard to believe that he is running for County Supervisor. He probably kissed off five percentage points with his pitiful performance tonight.
C’mon Eric, what’s not to love about a Big Box by the Bay? I’m sure Walmart thought the same thing last time Big Box development was thrust before the voters. That worked out well for them, didn’t it?
If nothing else, Arkley has given environmentalists and progressive-leaning voters a rallying point, and an extra reason to come out to the polls this fall.
And I wouldn’t be surprised if groups opposed to the ArkMart measure will see an uptick in membership and new donations in the coming weeks.
Arkley & Co have presented the voters with a steaming pile of turd on a silver platter. Will the voters bite? We shall see.
So, what exactly did the council approve for the ballot? A re-zoning or an advisory poll of the public?
Is it legal for Arkley to pay $30k to the city to get his thing on the ballot?
The Council voted for the re-zoning measure, not the advisory.
It was probably legal for the Arkley’s to pay for the measure but it sure smells bad.
OK that’s what I thought.
Thanks -
Heraldo, I never said every speaker supported the ballot measure. Maybe you should read your posters more carefully before you insult them.
But your opinion here is meaningless. You were a NO vote just looking for an excuse.
And yes Matt, it is legal for Arkley to donate money to the city. Probably not specifically for a ballot measure, that takes some trust a majority of the council will use the money as intended.
Did anyone think this council would vote otherwise? Eureka’s government is constipated. It badly needs a flush. If Bonnie loses, our flush will be the county’s gain, and good riddance. On your way out, don’t let the swinging door hit you in the ass. It is going to get a little lonely over on Frank’s side of the room, come January.
Here’s to the day when ArkMart’s Big Box by the Bay is relegated to the compost heap of failed corporate scams along with the Cal-Pine Liquified Natural Gas madness, the Mad River Water Grab, MAXXSCAM, Walmart, etc.
Wait a minute, you anti’s wanted Arkley to pay for the ballot measure 1st, and now it “smells bad” because they in fact did pay for it?
Dear RA, the Mad River water deal will always be a threat as long as we don’t have a use for it.
No Cap. The smell has nothing to do with who is paying for this ill advised ballot measure. I think it comes more from the three turds sitting on the right of the mayor.
Cap, I’m hopeful that the Pulp Mill may indeed get up and running again. We’ll see. But you’re right, we’re in danger of losing control of that “excess water” to the state and/or private profiteers.
This is a huge opportunity for the opponents of the four stooges (don’t forget Virginia ). The Achilles heel of Marina Center supporter’s will be Bonnie’s opponent in the Run off. Neither Virginia or Jeff is capable of carrying this off without looking like an Arkley Stooge. Arkley is going to have a real challenge trying to figure out how to provide coaching for them without it hitting the screen as a campaign donation. If Virginia is the candidate, you probably won’t see a lot of public appearances. I don’t envy Arkley for having to deal with motor mouth.
The $30k check may be legal but it’s an insult to a lot of people for many different reasons.
If the Coastal Commission turns this project down, which they may well do because CUE/6 refuses to answer the questions asked, then where does this ballot measure lead?
Well, duh. WalMart maybe?
We obviously have three councilpersons without a brain in their head.
Or three council members who are fine with a WalMart but would rather not vote for that directly. Will the voters be fooled? Stay tuned.
Arkley won tonight, in the sense that he got what he wanted and the zone change will be on the ballot. Whether it turns out to be a pyrrhic victory remains to be seen.
Arkley doesn’t have to deal with him. What’s that old saying? Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Arkely may not give money to Jeff, but he doesn’t need to. Jeff will twist himself into a pretzel for Arkley’s benefit at no cost.
In any event, Arkley needs to prevail both at the polls this November, and with the Coastal Commission, which has the final say. Opponents only need to prevail at one of these two points to kill the project. That being said, from a political point of view it would be much better to win the Eureka ballot measure and have the people squarely on the record, yet again, against the idea of a Big Box by the Bay.
By “win the Eureka ballot measure” I meant to defeat it.
wonder if it was a real check?
What a spectacle – that whole dog and pony show tonight…on both sides. It was predictable but somehow worse than anticipated.
Randy Gans and Cherie Arkley showed they gung-ho to insult voter intelligence by claiming the measure is about the Marina Center, or the Arkleys themselves. It’s not. It’s about zoning which, like it or not, will open the door to WalMart.
Doesn’t anyone remember how divisive the WalMart fight was? Even households were divided. People got angry and wouldn’t speak. I can’t describe how ugly it was here. I can tell you this will be equally as bad. Why? Because most people will think it’s about the Marina Center when it is NOT. It is ONLY the zoning.Several people close to RA seem to think he’ll eventually pull out. Rezoning the BT will leave us totally vulnerable to the likes of WalMart. It is NOT a joke. If you think our economy and retail is bad now, wait ’til those boys get to town.
Pyrrhus’…name is famous for the term “Pyrrhic victory” which refers to an exchange at the Battle of Asculum. In response to congratulations for winning a costly victory over the Romans, he is reported to have said: “One more such victory will undo me!”
– from Wikipedia
After November, Mr. Arkley may look back and find himself feeling that way about his victory tonight at the City Council.
One more note about Pyrrhus, also from Wikipedia:
“He was… offered an opportunity to intervene in a civic dispute in Argos. Entering the city with his army by stealth, he found himself caught in a confused battle in the narrow city streets. During the confusion an old Argead woman watching from a rooftop threw a roofing tile which stunned him, allowing an Argive soldier to kill him.”
Gotta be a lesson in that somewhere!
I would have more faith in this process if they were honoring their current financial obligations.
If you are referring to the city’s financial obligations, They have a lot of honoring to do, 4.3 million is the current figure. Tyson is bailing at a time when his financial wizardry is really coming into question. The city’s financial hole seems to be growing and he will leave others to hold the empty bag, marina center or not. What a legacy.
Quite a record for Bass and Leonard to run on…or more like run away from.
Heard a rumor tonight that Arkley is planning to bail out of the project anyway, sometime next year. He bet that he could ram this project through the city council, the regional water board and finally, the Coastal Commission. Well, two outa three ain’t bad, old man. $6 million does buy you a lot of propaganda, enough to snow most of the people in Eureka, but not the Coastal Commission. However, close ain’t good enough, you gotta get the ball past the finish line, which ain’t gonna happen with the plan as proposed. Randy was channeling Boss Rob when he said this project as proposed ain’t gonna change one whit.
Their strategy was flawed insofar as they believed their own line of bullshit. If they had actually proposed a cleanup that didn’t violate the law in so many ways, this thing actually might’ve gotten close to being done.
This is clearly part of Arkley’s exit strategy, a way to recoup his $6 million when the value of his $2 million publicly-zoned property becomes a much more valuable commercially-zoned property that he can sell to Wal Mart or another Big Box. Eric, you have made some smug comments about how the progressives in Eureka are somehow not “doing enough” to organize around the big box issue, but from your perch down south those words just seem fatuous. Get a clue, man. We are in a pissing match with the fire department, and as I said above, $6 million buys a lot of public opinion in this small and undereducated town. If you want to help, join CREG or start going door to door yourself instead of bitching about it and pointing fingers.
This whole thing is classic Arkley: using his money to create enormous division in the community, to destroy the people who he doesn’t like or who have stood up to disagree with him. Hope Bonnie wins!
Here’s one possible explanation for the attitude and behavior of Jeff Leonard, Mike Jones and Frank Jager:
WASHINGTON—A recent poll from the Institute for Figuring People Out revealed Tuesday that nearly one quarter of the U.S. population is just sort of like that. A report on the findings stated that 23 percent of Americans are “a little off,” and even if they don’t get up in anyone’s face or anything, you never know when they’re going to be in one of those moods. Within this group of respondents, 64 percent were not all there, 31 percent couldn’t be bothered, and God forbid you even talk to the other 5 percent without some kind of hassle. The study concluded that, while many people seem pretty out there, perhaps that’s just the way they are, and moreover, what can you do?
http://www.theonion.com/articles/report-23-of-population-just-sort-of-like-that,17423/
R.A. @ 12:16-thanks for sharing,great laugh!
Heralado-thanks for the blog.
*Jeers to the represenative from the Lollipop Guild-dumbest little jackass since Nancy Fleming fell-off the local election map.
*Jeers to Cherie Arkley for that ridiculous act of “smoldering Martyr.” The marina has nothing to do with it.Tacky people with money are still tacky.
*Jeers to Randy Gans for being such “a good german soldier” and corporate whore.
*Jeers on Rex Bohn for being the biggest jackass NOT elected to any office.
*Jeers on Lurch Jager,Comatose Jones and The Lollipop Guild for their pathetic charade and dismissal of
Hope someone got a good photo of Arkley handing that $30,000 check to the clerk. It belongs in every ad and on every piece of literature.
I was neutral to somewhat positive on the Marina Center when this all started, partly because it seemed like a project that would finally bring something resembling smart growth to Eureka, but Arkley and crew’s arrogant disregard of, well, just about every aspect of the process of approval, culminating with last night’s performance, has turned me totally against it.
And that’s a key, I think. For a lot of us, the merits or demerits of the Marina Center became irrelevant some time ago.
I find it interesting that apparent “conservatives” like HiFi are anything but when it comes to ignoring and going around the process if it’s something they support. Doesn’t sound very conservative to me.
“Arkley doesn’t have to deal with him. What’s that old saying? Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? Arkely may not give money to Jeff, but he doesn’t need to. Jeff will twist himself into a pretzel for Arkley’s benefit at no cost”
My point, Heraldo, is that yes Jeff will twist himself into a pretzel. When humans twist themselves into pretzels it looks pretty odd. Jeff will attract a lot of attention that Arkley may not want.
Why are the Arkley’s listing they’re house in Eureka with an out of the area Real Estate Broker?
Polly Endert is clueless. 169 people signed a petition to keep Teen Challenge out of the Wasbash
building. She is so damn dumb she thought people
wanted it. But, not dumb enough, not to know she
could get cheap labor. Arkley used this cheap labor
on the balloon track. They don’t pay the workers,
they are hehabing, don’t you know. They pay Teen
Challenge 13 dollar an hour. If this was private
business they couldn’t afford to send them out the
door. By the way folks Teen Challenge here in this
area and San Jose were fined by the US Labor Dept.
last year for interstate commerce. So, stupid
dumb ignorant Polly, this is why you were voted out
of office. Jeff Leonard wanted Teen Challenge because they would paint the building. Forget the fact, they were from out of the area and mostly adult age felons. Off the subject, but, this made me mad.
was jeffy boy having some-kind of mental event last night OMG! his campaign just when bust, no wonder why Virginia was smiling.
“Jeff opposes the Big Money attempts to control local politics.” – from the Leonard campaign web site.
Except when “big money” wants a referendum on the ballot to further their special interest…
tra,
Not ArkMart. RobMart.
Test of Character @ 12:10,
Right-wingers are forever talking about how people should be reimbursed by government when government increases restrictions on their property by zoning or whatever.
So I’m sure the right-wing will be out in force to insure that any INCREASE in the value of the balloon tract due to a zoning change will go to the government, not Security National.
Right?
The right versus left. This whole thing is freaking simple and not worth beating to death.
Let the voters show what they want and go from there. It won’t change anything but will be good to know.
It will change zoning of the Balloon Track. Nothing more.
But it will be but a blip. They still have to get through all the other issues.
Which is why Linda Atkins was exactly right when she said the vote won’t matter but will tear the community apart.
“Randy was channeling Boss Rob when he said this project as proposed ain’t gonna change one whit”
The Marina Center project changed about 57 times due to comments from the community which were incorporated into it…time after time after time and you people are still whining its Pathetic!
Good for SN to finally say enough and put it to a vote-they pay for the ballot measure and you’re still finding fault! Dammned if you do and damned if you do there’s no pleasing some people well tough!
Test of Character ‘hope Bonnie wins’ isnt going to get her elected it takes votes. That will answer a few people about how the ballot measure will do in November.
you folks sure don’t want to hear the people. what does it hurt?
We heard them loud and clear last night, and most of them, including Cherie Arkley and Randy Gans appear clueless as to what is going on the ballot. In fact, they turned down the idea of actually putting the Marina Center up for a vote.
The opponents could never quite explain why, if the vote “won’t matter” and the cost of the election was paid for, they were so adamantly opposed to letting the people speak.
But we all know why.
Bullshit. Linda Atkins said it perfectly. To paraphrase:
8:28- No one is stopping “the people” from being heard. Some of them natter constantly even though they don’t have the faintest idea what they are talking about.
They are welcome to their own opinions, but they are not welcome to their own facts.
What “it” hurts is the failure to require SN to follow a clearly understood, well-established process for large projects like this, not giving them a pass because Cherie waved a $30,000 check around.
Arkley gets two things out of this. He gets to have a heavy tool to try to drive Bonnie Neely out of office with, and he gets to pump up his ego with a “see, they like me, they reaally like me” vindication vote. No zoning or general plan change will result and he knows that, unless he can use the momentum of defeating Bonnie to scare the rest of Coastal Commission into submission. He does like to intimidate. and it often works (with a couple of notable exceptions I can think of).
And the proponents never explained:
if they are so concerned to see the site cleaned up and the project move forward, why then don’t they press SN to comply with the Coastal Commission so an appeal can be heard. If the clean-up is scientifically sound and the advocates for this project want to be heard by the CCC, then the sooner the appeal is heard the better. Right?
My suspicion is that the Arkleys are using this vote and the CCC conflict to drag their feet as long as possible. Rezoning the property would also be in their interest because it would allow more options once they decide to bail on the project and move away.
I don’t really care that much about this project and I shop at big boxes, but I hate to see the system and the good people of Eureka manipulated. I’d gladly buy you a drink at the Avalon if this project ever gets built as described by SN. At best it will be an oversized Buree Center with the homeless holding signs asking to work for food. And the Arkley’s will retire to the Louisiana mansion, where’ they’ll be wondering, “what are the little people are doing today”
“Why are the Arkley’s listing they’re house in Eureka with an out of the area Real Estate Broker?”
Links, Pitchfork, or it isn’t true.
I think I need to agree with an earlier poster –
This is all about RA selling the property to someone else. A change in zoning will make it worth at least the $6,000,000 he’s spent on it if not alot more.
What’s sad is that RA will make money off this and the property will still sit there polluting the bay because no commercial project with a big box element can get through the Coastal Commission.
“… the project will still sit there polluting the bay because no commercial project with a big box element can get through the coastal commission.”
Thank you, HP, for supplying the missing fact that went unsaid last night. It’s unfortunate that Kim Wear took Thad Greenson off this story and gave it to Allison White, who omitted key facts like this from her story.
It will have the opposite effect on the Coastal Commission should Bonnie be defeated, they will have a “lets hold the line for Bonnie attitude” shes a very popular chair of the commission and well respected by staff.
Eric, you have made some smug comments about how the progressives in Eureka are somehow not “doing enough” to organize around the big box issue, but from your perch down south those words just seem fatuous.
First of all, you shouldn’t put quotes around “doining enough,” since I didn’t say that. Secondly, I’m just making an observation, one I’ve been making since the project advocates did go door-to-door and followed up with a poll back in 2006.
And I’ve been saying it about the environmental movement since 1994, when many environmental groups were shown to be paper tigers in terms of constituency – largely because they’d set aside grassroots organization in favor of lawsuits and more conventional lobbying.
The proponents have probably taken internal polls which indicate a similar level of support. Back in 2006 when I had a conversation with Randy Gans, he brought up the “WalMart Waterloo” and it was his opinion that WalMart had kind of rushed in assuming they couldn’t lose. I don’t expect that he’s going to make the same mistake. They’re pushing this because they know they can win it, and probably some of the vehemence of the opposition is based on its own suspicion of the same.
I’m not making these observations to put anybody down. I’m just saying that if you’re going to beat the measure in November, you’re not going to do it with press statements, op ed pieces, and newsletters. You’ve got to reach the people on the ground and convince them. It’s ironic that the corporate side of this fight understands that more than its opposition, and yes, they have money to spend, but they’ve also done the footwork at the grassroots level.
Here’s the old poll.
http://kunsoo1024.wordpress.com/2006/10/30/humboldt-business-council-poll-on-the-marina-center/
8:58 It’s discrete listing only select people will be shown. I don’t know the asking price either.
I wonder if Bank of America know about this?
Bullshit yourself Heraldo. The excuse is just an excuse. There is no harm to letting the people vote regardless of whether Atkins thinks they are giving up their responsibility.
The left claim they represent the majority in Eureka now. They know it isn’t true & they are afraid this ballot measure will prove it.
The backlash is coming. A big majority of the people are sick & tired of every project being stopped by the naysayers, the Paykeepers & their lawsuits. They are tired of people pushing pot clinics coming to our town, homeless parking lots & the ever increasing number of homeless bums wandering through Old Town & Downtown.
The Silent Majority were outraged by the police doing nothing while homeless camped out in the City Hall parking lot for an entire month.
I am in the minority here, but not in real life, not in Eureka. Now we get to prove it.
“Now we get to prove it”
Well I agree with you HiFi that it’s put-up-or-shut-up time.
But I won’t be surprised if we find out that your “silent majority” turns out to be only a noisy minority puffed up with special interest money and overconfident in their little echo chamber of Arkley acolytes and reassuring push-polls.
At any rate, I think it’s going to be a close race, and hard-fought.
And all that is relevant to the proposed zoning change on the Balloon Track how?
It looks like the Arkley tactic will be to try to convince voters that the ballot measure is about moving forward on a clean up, and that the anchor store will be Home Depot.
Of course the reality is that the ballot measure does nothing to move the clean-up forward — the clean-up, and the project in general is being held up because of the inadequate Arkley-generated EIR and cleanup plan that the city foolishly signed on to, and by Arkley’s jurisdictional lawsuit against the Coastal Commission and his failure to supply the commission with the documentation they need to proceed.
The ballot measure that will be before Eureka voters will not do anything about any of those issues, it is simply a zoning change that would allow ANY big box retailer, including WalMart, to locate there.
If enough voters buy into Arkely’s nonfactual characterization of this ballot measure as a way to cut through bureaucracy and get a clean-up going, then Arkley will win.
But if enough voters realize that this is just a zoning change that will do nothing to move a cleanup forward but will open up the site to any Big Box, including WalMart, then Arkley will lose.
Arkley must think himself as big stuff. To send his
wife into this melee that he created is small man
stuff. Aren’t all bullies really cowards?
The Silent Majority were outraged…
Not that it means anything I suppose, but the last major pol to talk about the “silent majority” was Nixon.
Although going straight to the voter is of course a huge risk, I do think that it’s a smart move by Arkley.
If he wins, his property is worth millions more whether he ultimately succeeds with the Marina Center proposal (doubtful but possible), or he just re-sells the property.
If he loses, the Marina Center proposal is all but dead… but he would have had to face the zoning change issue eventually, and if he can’t win it now, why continue to pour money into the regulatory stuff?
Arkley may be a lot of things, but he’s not a stupid man. I think this move certainly makes sense from his point of view. However, as his recent record of bank failures and the Band of America lawsuit show, he doesn’t always win. Hopefully this will be another in his string of recent reversals.
Despite your protestations to the contrary, Eric, as an “armchair general” on this issue you don’t seem to get it. CREG held five or six well-attended community forums in ’06, some of them attracting over 300 people, on these issues to reach the grassroots. You seem to think that progressives in Eureka can snap their fingers and make door-to-door campaigners with weeks and weeks of time on their hands appear as if by magic to counter $6 million and five years worth of Arkley disinformation. You cluck your tongue at us as if we don’t get it. Yes we get it, but we are realistic, too. If you want to help, great, but pointing your finger does not help. It just shows that you don’t understand the reality and history of how this fight has evolved, and the enormous amount of resources that the Arkleys mustered to counter the grassroots campaign against their half-baked project.
And of course we all remember the progeny of that “silent majority” — the right-wing evangelical “Moral Majority,” which turned out to be populated by a surprising number of con artists, pedophiles, philanderers, serial fornicators, self-hating closeted gays, marital cheaters, and nutjob televangalist preachers specializing in blaming gays and liberals for drawing the wrath of God in the form of disease, natural disasters and terrorist attacks. Neither moral, nor a majority, as it turned out.
Wow. Lots of posts and lots of opinions. What’s the bottom line? Getting CC approval of the cleanup–period. Screw the vote and everything else.
Eric, I tend to agree with you on the importance of grassroots organizing on this issue (and others) and the dangers of overreliance on litigation and lobbying tactics. I think it’s a healthy and reasonable critique, and worth discussing.
It seems to me that the reason that some of your comments above may have been misinterpreted as “armchair generaling” is that your choice of pronouns (“you” instead of “we) seemed to imply that “environmentalists” were some group not including you, and that it was entirely someone else’s job to do this grassroots organizing. Whereas I’m sure that you realize that by definition, grassroots organizing efforts are everybody’s job, including you and I.
Basically, I think that if you substituted “we” for “you” in some of your comments, it would have read more as a call to action, instead of a scolding from the sidelines. Then again, a scolding may be appropriate from time to time!
In any event, we are all going to have to pull together if we want to take advantage of this opportunity to put an end to the Big Box by the Bay nonsense once and for all.
Test of Character – been watching it since the beginning. Definitely I don’t expect an effort to materialize in weeks, but it’s been years. And I have sympathetic friends in Eureka who have had Arkley’s people sitting in their living rooms, but have never heard a peep from the opposition. I’m not saying it’s anybody’s fault. I’m sure limited resources are a big issue. But maybe it’s time to do some specific fundraising around the issue.
You can blame the messenger if you want, but I’m telling you that if you don’t put together an effective door-to-door campaign you will lose. It’s that simple.
I was in Eureka during the November election of 2006 working GOTV, and SN’s people had us outnumbered then. I’ll probably do what I can in the future, but the door-to-door really shouldn’t be done by carpet baggers.
http://kunsoo1024.wordpress.com/2006/11/08/home-from-the-trenches/
http://kunsoo1024.wordpress.com/2006/11/08/swarming-the-precincts/
Whatever you do, don’t put all of your eggs into the Coastal Commission basket.
RA – Hey, I’ll go one further. I’ll take ALL of the blame. Now let’s pull it together.
to RA @ 10:16………..”but he’s not a stupid man”
sure he is, he’s polarized a community more than once.
he has never learned to get along with others, which is a basic.
By the way, I’m wondering — if the pro-ArkMart forces have such great grassroots support, why didn’t they go ahead and collect the signatures to get it on the ballot. That would have looked better — more politically muscular and more populist — than having Arkley hand over a check to the City Council and having his allies on a divided City Council put it on the ballot at the last minute and amid much controversy.
Sure, it was “easier” in a way, but assuming Arkley’s goal is to WIN the measure, he lost the tremendous organizing opportunity that comes with doing a large signature-gathering drive. All the organizers and volunteers that are brought together during the petitioning effort can form a formidable ground campaign force leading up to the election.
I think the decision to go the City Council and get what will appear to many people as “special treatment,” as opposed to going the more grassroots petitioning route, was a strategic mistake on Arkley’s part. He saved time and money, but he passed on the opportunity to organize and motivate volunteers in a petition drive, and increased the extent to which he will be viewed as getting special treatment from the City Council.
It will be interesting to see how this all plays out. But I’m not going to remain entirely on the sidelines as this game gets underway in earnest. I’m looking at my own budget and calendar to see what kind of time and money I can put into opposing this ballot measure. I’ll bet that a lot of opponents of the Big Box on the Bay Boondoggle are doing the same. It should be quite a campaign.
Eric,
Thanks for shouldering all the blame, that’s mighty generous of you! But seriously, I didn’t mean to nit-pick your wording, I was just trying to explain why some readers seemed to get a bit defensive about your critique.
Anyway, whatever the shortcomings of the anti-ArkMart organizing up to this point, it seems to me that we are basically in agreement that going forward, a major grassroots organizing effort — door-to-door, house parties, phone banks, events, etc. — is needed to ensure the defeat of this ballot measure.
Unfortuntately, neither you nor I live in Eureka, and I agree that “carpetbagging” out-of-towners should not play too much of a role in this kind of City referendum. But it’s also true that the Big Box Boondoggle will affect residents (and businesses) well beyond Eureka city limits.
So I think it is completely appropriate for folks from throughout Humboldt to contribute financially, and as volunteers, to make sure that Eureka voters get some accurate information about what the measure WOULD do (change the zoning in such a way that any big box retailer, including WalMart, could end up on that parcel) and what it WOULD NOT do (speed up any clean-up or guarantee that the tenant would be Home Depot and not WalMart).
I hope to hear very soon that an official campaign committee has been formed to oppose this ballot measure. I hope some folks who are more experienced and connected than I am, and with more time to spare, are going to take the lead on this. I know that a lot of the local political talent is already engaged in the various supervisor campaigns, but this will be an important vote so I hope we’ll see the outpouring of support that the anti-ArkMart campaign will need.
I suck up to rich people–Susan Fox
Arent they the ones who buy your paintings?
Who is around from the 1999 NO to Walmart Campaign?
Lotsa folks. But who will take the lead?
Wasn’t it headed up by Patty Berg and Bonnie Neely? Didn’t it help get Patty elected to the State Assembly and help Bonnie get re-elected in 1999?
Then we had Fortuna First that was run by Sylvia Jutila in Fortuna to try to keep Walmart out of Fortuna. That group kind of fizzled.
Let’s make lemonade out of lemons!
How about we keep Loleta our of Eureka business? I know, how about we plant Wal-Mart in Loleta, after all it is between Fortuna, and Eureka? It is nice how Carol can play politics, but not ok for other to do so.
What’s Patty Berg up to these days?
Patty is around and in Sacramento mentoring.
How about we keep failing banksters (who “reside” in Louisiana for tax purposes?) from pulling the wool over the eyes of Eureka voters? There’s a thought.
cap – this impacts the economy of the whole county. Believe me, many people from outside Eureka will be involved – on both sides.
Smoke and Mirrors, RA is very cleverly attempting to increase the value of the Balloon Tract so that he can recoup some of his stupidly spent money. All the other issues discussed help to obscure this fact. Not dumb. Good chess. The move behind the move, behind the move.
Ding ding ding! We have a winner! And you get… a new car!
But seriously, right on the button.
The actual measure will appear at the next council meeting on June 1, very close to the deadline for getting it on the ballot. Unless it is simply a yes or no on changing the zoning to Service Commercial (SC), it may have problems. It may have problems getting through the ‘process’ that fast anyway.
In any event, the unmitigated GALL of Cheri Arkley to waltz into the council meeting waving her check and demanding her ‘special measure’ be put on the ballot is astounding. NO ONE else in Eureka or anywhere could get away with that kind of move. She just assumed that she could buy her way onto the ballot. Amazingly, the 3 Stooges bought it hook, line, and sinker (usually used to catch Bass!)
If this zoning change passes, the City would also be on the hook for expenses to defend the change before the Coastal Commission. That would mean sending folks like Jeffy to meetings at our expense, plus lots of staff time to prepare. There is NO WAY to collect from Cheri for those expenses. She may offer, but wouldn’t you think Rob would finish paying the City for his EIR first? The City DOES NOT have the money to front for Arkley’s shenanigans.
Unless the City has a written commitment from RA to actually PAY for ALL of the City’s expenses on this fiasco, there is nothing to enforce or collect. It’s all blue smoke.
Changing the zoning does NOTHING to speed the cleanup.
It does NOTHING to speed the building of the project.
It does NOTHING toward resolving problems with the State Lands Commission or the Coastal Commission.
It does NOTHING to guarantee it isn’t a ‘bait and switch’ with WalMart.
It DOES embarrass the City.
It WILL be used as a political weapon against certain city council and supervisor candidates
It DOES make the Balloon Track more valuable and easier to sell.
Rest assured, there is more afoot here than a simple zoning change.
I meant to point out that normally an applicant, in this case CUE VI, would have the job and the expense of defending a zone change before the Coastal Commission. This ballot measure would shift that expense to the City.
The city would be in that position no matter if the action to change came from the city council or the voters, according to Sidnie Olson last night.
But on all other points you are exactly right.
Of course if Arkley gets the zone change, but then his Marina Center proposal gets shot down at the Coastal Commission, he’ll still have a heavily contaminated parcel on his hands. I don’t know what the market value is for a contaminated parcel of commercially-zoned land with bigtime coastal zone issues for any development — but I guess it would be more than for the same piece of land zoned “public.” How much more? Hard to know. We may find out.
Well, it seems like sooner or later this always happens…the pseudonymous poster StopitPeters attacks pseudonymous poster A-nony-mouse for posting pseudonlymously. And around and around we go…
TRA, WTF are you talking about? I never attack myself. There’s enough crap on this blog to keep me busy. If I misspeak, please correct me whenever necessary. If calling for the rule of law bothers you or rejecting special privilege for the rich few bothers you, then I can only say, “Too bad”. I usually agree with you so I don’t know what this attack is about. I only post under my A-Nony-Mouse name. No other is needed. Now let’s get on with business.
Heraldo, I thought I heard her say that the applicant normally pays to defend a requested zone change before the CCC. I don’t know but I’ll find out. Maybe another poster already has the answer and will enlighten us.
You misunderstood him, A-Nony. TRA was referring to StopItPeters’ attack on you for using a pseudonym.
Egg-zackly.
ANM, the discussion went something like this:
Linda Atkins: if the developer applies to the Planning Commission for zone change, we could get through this before Nov. election. If we go to the ballot we would be taking this on as project ourselves. It would be the city of Eureka’s responsibility instead of the developers?
Larry Glass: (to Sidnie Olson) Heard you say it would become the city’s responsibility and reliability so we would have to fight battles with Coastal Commission?
Sidnie: No. Our responsibility is the Local Coastal Program. No matter how the zoning changes, it’s still our law. Regardless of who took action to make the amendment, we still have to get it to the Coastal Commission.
Linda: Who would applicant for zoning change be when we go to the Coastal Commission? who’s paying for this?
SIDNIE/TYSON CONFER
Sidnie: Once we get to the point of submitting it to the Coastal Commission, we are responsible. The city would then be funding getting down to Coastal Commission meetings.
Seems in some ways Arkley has made his task more difficult. The original scenario would have been -grant sufficient zoning change to allow Marina Center and get clean-up vs some undefined unfunded project sometime in the future. Arkley can win that argument by default. Now the argument is Marina Center vs Walmart. Not sure I’d go there unless I wanted Walmart. Ergo…
I hear Arkley is on a pre-suicidal rampage. Sending threatening notes to his opponents and indicating he plans to dump one last load of cash on negative campaign materials against Bonnie. So sad.
What a waste on campaigns. The measure doesn’t matter. Who sits on the council or the board of sups don’t matter. We can all rest assured that Rob Arkley will never be able to develop this property in any way whatsoever. The law and economics just don’t pencil. People are losing precious hours of their lives worrying about this issue when the fate is sealed. Let him try to win elections. Let’s get used to that dump staying a dump for a lot of years to come. Cheers.
“Sidnie: Once we get to the point of submitting it to the Coastal Commission, we are responsible. The city would then be funding getting down to Coastal Commission meetings.”
That’s quite a return on $30,000.
I have to agree with the idea that this whole effort to rezone the BT may be to raise the property value, at the City’s expense at that, in order to sell it off without ever building the MC…but has anyone else considered that this issue has now become the litmus test for the City Council candidates running in that same November election? Isn’t the first ward up for that election? This will get ugly.