An NPR report looks at the environmental impacts of growing pot.
Peter Lehmann of the Schatz Energy Research Center at Humboldt State University told the reporter about this county’s high wattage demand.
He says some indoor grows use 20 times the electricity of an average household. Lehmann and a colleague found that Humboldt County residents use 25 percent more electricity per capita than the average Californian. That’s like every person in the county having a personal full-sized refrigerator.
[Image source].
I am very curious what a grow’s PG$E bill is like, what is it thousands per month??
I’m sorry but I just can’t get behind this attempt at guilt-tripping indoor growers over their carbon footprint. Please compare the carbon footprint of an ounce of pot with that of a fifth of imported scotch. Please compare the carbon footprint of an ounce of pot with that of a family trip to Europe or Hawaii by plane. Then maybe I’ll take this new fashion seriously.
It’s about choices made. You don’t have to grow marijuana under lights, it grows in the sun. Just as you don’t have to take that trip or buy that imported scotch.
That said, a patient growing just enough for themselves may have to do it inside, if they have no other alternative, which isn’t the case in Humboldt. There are programs that even give weed to the very sick and needy, like at HPRC. But a grow house for profit can’t be justified ecologically.
A marijuana grow house is as ecologically viable as any other product grown indoors, like for instance alfalfa sprouts or all sprouts, tomatoes, orchids, etc. Erecting a greenhouse for pot plants would be better in the long term but because of our poor economy people will coop growing and over time will become more ecological as they are left alone by those who oppose their right to grow.
how about taking a look at the world’s largest indoor grow operation — sun valley. which performs the vital service of putting fresh flowers on your door step anywhere in the world.
please folks, please.
Why does everyone insist that weed have no profit? why does the sacred free market apply to opiate painkillers but not weed? you think bayer is in it for your well being? get a freaking grip.
no for-profit can be “justified ecologically”. wtf is that anyway? are you freaking kidding? how can a factory that makes yo-yos be “justified ecologically”? please, you people are a fucking joke.
there is an ecological price to be paid for everything you do. smoking weed, playing with your yo-yo, playing with yourself.
get a grip and at least have a reasoned conversation. the left and the right on this blog has gone completely goofy.
Apparently, it ain’t easy being green.
Hatcher Creek and the wreckage of SoHum just says it all about pot growers and their antics. Hippies are some of the most destructive people on the planet, all while trying to act like they suck off Al Gore and have done that since he had that silly beard. Hippies are nearly as bad as government and need to be driven from our lands.
So BF, all growers are hippies and all hippies are growers eh?
BF is like Mikey, he hates everything.
Love to hear the self-serving hypocrisy of the Humboldt grow community. Come on, man up it’s all for the money just like your Wall Street friends.
Compare the environment before and afer any group has moved into it. Was the environment there cleaner and safer before or after the change was made?
That will tell you, bottom line, what you need to know.
Fifty years ago some people thought the “Oakies” had ruined SoHum. Today, we know they left the place an Eden compared to how the pot growers and Jamaican-style hedonistic revellers have left it.
“Brown Trout” indeed!
It just gets worse and worse.
It’s a no brainer – grow it in the sun. But to do that, people need to support it. Quit buying the indoor stuff. Yeah, it can be good, but organic outdoor SHOULD get top dollar.
Can really good quality MJ really be grown outside in the sun in places like Mckinleyville arcata and eureka.I doubt it .I think the whole put em in the sun crew are just pissed they dont get good money for their shitty outdoor bud so they have gone after people who play inside.
Like Toohey says, love to hear that humboldt grow community hypocrisy. Here are so numbers from the New York Times (thanx for the link, PJ): “A pound of marijuana can be sold at retail for somewhere between $5,500 and $7,500. To buy that quantity wholesale will cost about $4,000. Grow it yourself and the same pound will cost just $750 to $1,000.” Eat your heart out, BP! And growing in the woods does WHAT to the creeks? Legalize it and let them compete with RJ Reynolds. Do ya good.
remember what happened to alcohol before it was legalized? people were making bathtub gin that was killing people and polluting the water systems of large cities and country creeks. Why? because people wnated alcohol and were willing to do crazy sh** to get er done! Now not so much
people lump people they don’t understand into groups…stereotypes are developed and perpetrated by ignorance and prejudice. i’m glad i lived an adventurous life with all kinds of people and know that we are all alike in our needs. Psychology has been very good for learning how our minds perceive reality and that knowledge has been used for both the aid of humankind and by those smart enough and ruthless enough to manipulate us into manageable rhetoric and belief systems. Make us think we are superior when we believe in or own iconic ideals or products. Predictable and calculated by the status-quo. Is that Liberty? Are you free to think or do or believe what ever you want without fear of negative actions towards you from others? Then we have not achieved true democracy, there is much more work to do.
4:05 said playing w/yourself has an ecological price. Seriously? No takers for that? Where’s K-bel? I can think of a half dozen blind catholic jokes right off the bat! Lighten up Francis.
4:05 said playing w/yourself has an ecological price. Seriously? No takers for that? Where’s K-bel? I can think of a half dozen blind catholic jokes right off the bat! Lighten up Francis.
hmmm highlarious…. The wasted protein?
Kate-remember, alcohol was prescribed by doctors (not recommended) before it was re-legalized.
Sun Valley farms uses a tremendous amount of electricity. Most retailers leave their computers on all night long. Most retailers in Eureka do not recycle. They all use tremendous amount of power, paper, and oil (from the semis that deliver products weekly) for profit. They all can’t go hogwild with it though because it is regulated. Regulate the marijuana market and help save our rivers and streams from Al Capone wannabees.
Scott did your mommy rub brandy on your sore gums?
bill @ 9:09 opines that perhaps the reason for the indoor bud industry is that outdoor ganja is “shitty.” Now that’s pretty sad coming from someone who is presumably living in Humboldt. I’ll offer a simpler and easily historically-verified explanation: helicopters. Indoor growing didn’t get rolling until the Feds first started spraying Paraquot and other deadly herbicides in Mexico, and then bringing the National Guard helicopters and troops, and C.A.M.P., and so on, into the hills here in this country.
So indoor growing, with all its wasteful energy use and silly expensive liquid fertilizers only came about because of Prohibition and especially the use of helicopters for eradication efforts. (By the way, its the indoor growers who are often “forced” to use pyrethroids and other pesticides to deal with spider mites and other pests, because indoors there are no natural predators to keep them under control.)
Then the resulting dense indoor buds and various cloned varieties eentually became the norm, and this type of bud has been fetishized by High Times and Cannabis Culture and the like, which has helped to shape consumer preferences in ensuing generations. And with prices held so artificially high due to Prohibition, the wasteful nature of inddoor growing didn’t stop it from being plenty profitable.
But with Prohibition seemingly on its last legs, and prices dropping due to the Prop 215 partial-legalization, indoor ganja growing may soon be the rare exception, rather than the rule. I sure hope this happens sooner rather than later, as we really can’t afford to waste energy growing a plant indoors that thrives outdoors in a greenhouse or in full sun, where it does not require all the pesticides and fancy liquid chemical fertilizers in a plastic bottle. We also can’t afford to waste residential spaces by turning bedrooms into growrooms, which drives up the price of housing for everyone else.
So, “bill,” there is plenty of high-quality outdoor Humboldt-grown ganja around, just as potent, fewer if any pesticides used, and often better tasting due to the use of (amended) native soils. So, ask around and (if you use ganja) try some and you’ll see.
[Disclaimer: I have not personally grown any ganja, indoor or out for some years now, but I'm not ashamed to admit that in the past I have grown a very modest amount outdoors, for my own use. I do know some folks who are current growers, mostly outdoors "Mom & Pops" growers, and a few who at one time grew some in an indoor room, but have now changed over to growing their patch outdoors, for both economic and ecological reasons.]
11:08pm – that was truly reasonable. Well said.
Thanks for the info point taken,
speaking to Big Al’s question this morn it is supposedly not uncommon for an indoor grow to pay upwards of $1500/month at the standard usage rate. to add insult to injury it is also not uncommon for growers take advantage of the CARE program for lower income households, receiving a 20% discount because they don’t have a reportable income. west coast capitalism at its finest.
Meanwhile, honest American workers can’t compete with indoor growers to rent or buy a house. Where do they live? How do they put shoes on their children’s feet? Oh. That’s right. They don’t have children anymore. They can’t afford any. Meanwhile, people who don’t give a damn about legalities pour across our borders to compete for American dollars and raise their large families among us.
Moral of the story?
It don’t pay to be an honest American worker anymore.
12:11am,
our global economic structure has created a great deal of inequity. we’re all competing for resources (not just american dollars). large-scale growers have learned from Wall Street and the working class and environment suffers as always. and so long as we have such a disparity between the wealthy and the poor, the poor will be coming across the borders seeking a better life for their families.
thanks Anon,
a friend of mine is developing lighting systems that I believe would offer substantial savings over systems now used.
while they were not designed for pot grows it might be a great fit and use much less energy.
not being a grower myself I have little idea of the actual costs.
Led lighting is a long way off as far as indoor growing.
However, as the cost of wattage increases people are becoming better at squeezing the most pound per watt.
If you read the current legislation AB 390 you will note it has no effect on 215, it is a separate situation. It is also a very badly written piece of legislation. Will generate tons of court cases to get figured out.
anon is close on PG&E, depends on varies factors. If you are in veg. or flower, or both. If you are doing your own mothers and cloning.
What the hell is honest American worker.
Indoor and outdoor are completely different animals.
Although a bit simplistic 2 kinds of ways of looking at resources. Pie is limited pieces, if someone else gets a piece they took it from you. Pot, all put into pot which increases the pot and there is more for all. The idea that someone who has more took it from you or does not work as hard is class envy stupidity.
“Led lighting is a long way off as far as indoor growing.”
why do you say that?
assuming that the for profit growers are environmentally minded is like assuming BP is beyond petroleum.
The for profit growers are as mixed a lot as any demographic in the county. There is no hypocrisy among for profit growers who deny the ills of their indoor carbon footprints. That is because for profit growers as a group have never taken a stance on any issues of politics or environment that I am aware of. Of copurse some growers are environmentally minded and some are not in the least.
At the same time, what is the footprint of any persons home and professional lives combined? because we ought to be looking at the grow related energy use as industrial power usage.
besides, to say that “Humboldt’s” usage of power is huge couild implicitly imply (intentional or not) that everyone in the county is sucking down kW hours when it is a subset of the population involved in mj production that are the actual consumers of the high juice loads…Unless you include the consumesrs of the product.
This all brings us to the fact that true costs are consistently rationalized, denied, minimized and dismissed by those who benefit by the activities with hidden costs or costs externalized.
Here is how this goes down the line: as energy prices soar in response to peak fossil fuel prices, indoor becomes way too pricey and everyone becomes an outdoor grower. That’s it- simple!
Details about the effects of potential legalization, near and mid-term market effects of various socio-legal policy, etc. are higher level fortune telling and that will cost you. And me too by the way because I make no claims to that skill set –YUK YUK
taxing our carbon footprint will be started at birth with a birth tax, then at each stage of life you will be taxed…..hydro and solar energy….if you haven’t invested in alternative energy it’s time to start. People are lazy and want instant gratification, and pot is a weed. Throwing seeds off a trail in the spring and coming back in the fall, put a few in the backyard and a couple in the house all year long used to be good enough, now everyone wants BUD the CRACK. Get over it!
“Throwing seeds off a trail in the spring and coming back in the fall…”
Umm, yeah…best of luck with that.
ra…give it a try! It grows along road sides in Tennessee
I have no experience with the Tennessee roadside variety, but I have had the unfortunate experience many years ago of trying some of the pot that grows in many ditches in Kansas. I can attest that if you try smoking it you won’t get much of a buzz (if any), but you most likely WILL get a headache. That’s because this “ditch-weed” is the basic industrial hemp strain, very, very low potency in terms of THC. Higher potency is generally a better thing health-wise because you don’t have to inhale a lot of smoke to get the desired effect.
Now I suppose you could try sprinkling a lot of seeds from a higher-potency strain somewhere, without tilling the soil or fertilizing or watering, but I’d be surprised if you got anything at all in the fall. If any of them actually sprouted they’d most likely be crowded out by the better-adapted local vegetation, and if any made it beyond that, they wouldn’t last in our long dry season without watering. If you want anything worthwhile, you have to work for it — that “it’s a weed, it just grows” thing is pretty much a myth.
Obviously you’ve not tried to grow outside up north here where the dry season is mild. Ditch weed is different than Sativa or Indica. THC content really is not the most valuable (for health) of the chemicals in weed, sure profiteers like to grow it for the sport and for patients, but if you are just talking about the average herbal household who eats and tokes the herb then my plan works well.
kate, you make a good point about the medicinal benefits of the non-THC ingredients (CBDs, etc.). I hadn’t thought of that. If someone just wants to munch a dozen or so green leaves a day for the CBDs, then growing some in a kind of “feral” way, without significant soil preparation or fertilizing might be just fine. Of course they would get much better results with a very small amount of effort in tilling the soil, adding a little bit of organic fertilizer and especially with some watering.
But as far as the dry season being “mild” I guess that’s all relative. But we really don’t get hardly any rainfall around here between June and late August. Perhaps if your little feral patch was in a wet spot, or in alluvial soil that is subirrigated (such as in Shively, for example) or by a creekside, or just below a spring, the no-prep, no-watering thing might work out. But otherwise, those plants are going to be crispy critters by mid-July.
Say, talking about indoor grows and ways to save elecatricity in them…
Why aren’t indoor pot growing enviro-oriented for-profit entremanures using Solatubes to bring the outside (free) light inside?
Free light instead of Fee light!
Let’s get ‘er done!
Hello, Connect the Dots!
You asked me “What the hell is honest American worker?”
Honest American worker obeys American laws.
Thread dead? Or only gone to bed?
Pot growers that I know are unscrupulous. They don’t care about the environment, only money. They deserve the same treatment here as any right wing money hungry repub.
They don’t care about anyone but themselves and their profit and will physically or financially hurt whoever is in their way.
I could say the same thing about bloggers. It’s easily proved, as easily disproved. Gross generalizations lead to gross deadlock, can we all agree we’ve proven that?
No standards and emerging tech.
Can buy a single $2400 LED lamp and still get five times the par per watt compared to 24 $100 LED lamp. With HID, if you buy four 150 watt bulbs and ballasts, that is gonna be about like a 600 watt. You cop a 600 watt HID today, next year the 600 watt HIDs out will be about equal. You buy company X HID setup, it will compare to company Y’s product. You buy a 600 watt LED lamp, next year’s 600 watt LED lamp will make last year’s model look like shit.
Indoor growers who tried LEDs four or five years ago think they don’t work because only bullshit grow lamps were available then. If you tried cell phones ten years ago and thought cell reception is spotty and internet is slow, you might think why the fuck would anyone buy a $800 cell phone? Same shit, LED will be Android 2.2 phones in a few years but some people will still be rockin land line HPS shit because that’s what they’re used.
The sun makes all that artificial tech look weak. Try turning on one of those bullshit lamps outdoors in the daytime. Watts/square meter my ass, until they come out with plutonium lamps ain’t nothing touching sun.
“…ain’t nothing touching the sun.”
True dat.