Local conservative Chris Crawford is stepping up to head the campaign in support of Measure N, which will take Eureka’s temperature on the proposed Marina Center development. The Journal has the details.
Crawford sent out a call to arms that included the following:
Passing Measure N is a necessary first step in transforming this blighted property into the Marina Center.
“Necessary” is a funny word since it’s — well — not. It could be passed by a vote of the city council, and there is no question the council would approve it pronto.
Measure N will change the land use designation – it is now zoned public which would allow a cemetery, jail or sewage plant to be placed there. If passed, the zoning would be changed to one which would allow the Marina Center development
Again, not true. A majority “Yes” vote will not ensure the zoning change. That’s up to the Coastal Commission.
while excluding a “supercenter discount store.”
Big deal. As written, if approved by the Coastal Commission, the exclusion would still allow a WalMart as proposed and voted down by Eureka residents in 1999.
The first Yes on N event will be Saturday, Aug 7 from 10am-noon at the Arkley Center for the Performing Arts.
Most importantly, the measure will demonstrate whether the community supports this or not. Most people I know think they actually do.
That doesn’t mean it gets built
Pass measure N – because an asphalt parking lot and orange plastic signs are beautiful and an open field of grass with views of the bay and mountains is “blight”. What about the weathered plastic signs that line the whole stretch of Broadway from K-Mart to Applebees to KFC. What measure can we vote for to remove that “blight”.
Oh but wait, this project will create all of those minimum wage retail jobs. That will surely change the economy of Eureka into the vibrant boom town of yesteryear…
That sounds sarcastic!! It seems you don’t believe all the lies..Congratulations, there are people who have their own minds, can think for themselves, and don’t need a wacko and his other WACKO minions to tell you how and what you want. Don’t they know whats best for you? TOTAL CLEAN UP OF THE SITE..and proceed with the project.
N = Not Necessary. No on N.
Despite Crawfords’s alliterative name, N is Not.
“Located near Eureka’s historic downtown, the Marina Center would provide a variety of amenities including 11 acres of restored wetlands, safe hiking & biking trails, numerous dining choices, a new location for the Children’s Discovery Museum, an array of local retail stores and a revitalized waterfront.”
No mention of Home Depot?
“New Jobs -
· Over 1,200 jobs will be created
· 1,000 of these jobs will be new, not just shifted from one business to another.
· Most of these are high paying, living wage jobs
No need for future tax increases -
· Creates $2 Million in NEW tax revenues
· $1 Million of these new taxes will be added to Eureka’s general fund to maintain vital public services such as police and fire protection
· Nearly $900,000 of these new taxes would boost property taxes to fund redevelopment and schools within the City”
WTF?? Where do they think all that money is going to come from for new taxes? Did Home Depot start a charitable organization to help strapped cities? Where is all this customer money going to come from to pay wages and taxing if not shifting? What are the high wage jobs? Crawford sure doesn’t have much respect for the intellect of the people he is appealing to.
Measure N will kill what is left of Eureka’s industrial businesses.
As described, a Walmart will be allowed to exist on the balloon tract. They have reconfigured their stores to get around cities putting restrictions on them.
I don’t think Walmart is a good employer and hundreds of lawsuits would seem to back that up.
Wait! Numerous dining choices?
The promise of new jobs is the P.T. Barnum in Arkley saying “a sucker is born every minute.” It’s designed to trick the many into supporting the financial gain of the few.
Like lumber companies and loggers, Great One?
But the people will cast their vote and that will be telling. Do they want this or not?
It’s an artificial issue, cynical and manipulative.
They want what they are being promised but that isn’t what they will get.
Lincoln said you can fool all of the people some of the time. Maybe this will be Eureka’s turn in the barrel. Old habits die hard.
Is there a plan B for the Balloon Track? Example: A park where you can spray paint on and under abandoned rail cars. Corporate walls and windows are all good but rail cars are more tactile. The plan would involve bringing in more cars to the Balloon Track. Fixing the railroad system would help this plan.
It is God’s gift to Eureka. Sing a joyful song and be thankful. The promised land is at hand.
I’m certainly glad you guys are a small minority of Eurekans. November will show you all how out of touch you are.
Test , Test , Test
This post will soon be deleted .
LaVallee the Peoples choice ?
He will cut you off of your 3 minute allotment time at the Council meeting if elected Mayor .
It 7:58 P:M: . Let’s see how long it’ll take Heraldo to delete this . Tick tock , Tick tock , Tick tock..
Keep thinking that way, Hi Fi.
I am not even going to get interested in this until these Pro-Marina Center people are upgraded from Mobsters to Terrorists.
Terrorists? No.
Liars, yes.
sly,sly,sly…Is that WACKO still paying your bills..When he’s done with you don’t cry to all of us. Someday humility and humanity will meet together for you and you will become human..
You want the people’s vote until you think they won’t vote your way, and then you want it handled a different way. It needs to be put in front of the voters. I only wish the whole community could vote on this.
Just get it cleaned up. The rest is so much fodder for us all to blow off steam about. It is all a beauty contest except how it is cleaned up. Let him build the Taj Mahal of the west, or what ever he calls it. The clean-up is the issue, not the popularity contest that “N” is designed to be.
Somebody has been going to too many tea parties.
I wonder if there will be Marina Center supporters wearing Marina Center T-shirts intimidating those who show up at the polls to vote on the measure as they did at a polling place in another recent election?
I think we should just leave it the blight it is and declare a victory.
Maybe I missed it, but has anyone ever suggested putting a train museum there instead?
its all smoke!!-clean up the site..or give it back to the railroad and have that multi billion dollar business take care of their problem..CLEAN IT UP, ALL THE WAY..
I just hope somebody has all the paperwork ready and a judge’s home number to call and get a restraining order when the Marina Center thugs show up at the polls again this year. I don’t really care one way or another how the vote goes (it’s completely irrelevant because the Coastal Commish is going to decide either way), but I do care about the right to vote and not be intimidated by organized thugs.
…but I do care about the right to vote and not be intimidated by organized thugs.
Intimidated by people wearing t- shirts?
“McKinleyville Kris says:
July 30, 2010 at 4:50 am
I wonder if there will be Marina Center supporters wearing Marina Center T-shirts intimidating those who show up at the polls to vote on the measure as they did at a polling place in another recent election?”
I don’t know per se if they were being intimidating,but certainly there was hogging of the voter roles and keeping those working on opposing campaigns away from them.That was the biggest complaint made by the poll workers forced to deal with the whole situation.
How does wearing campaign advertising tee-shirts comply with election laws prohibiting campaigning at the polls?
Reminds me of the types of votes we use to have in grade school. Everyone who wants free candy and pony rides vote “yes”
1000, non-shifted, living wage jobs?? This more than the entire St Joseph Health System, or almost twice Eureka City Schools full-time employment. Even HiFi has enough business sense to call bull on that one. Who is drinking this cool aid?
Notice how there’s nothing at all in the letter that mentions the 800-lb. gorilla in the room: “Home Depot”? Hey, what are you trying to hide, Chris? If this thing is ever built, most of it, you can bet, will be a giant Big Box store and acres and acres of blacktop parking lot surrounding it. Chris: why do we need another giant out-of-county hardware store when the City of Eureka itself paid for a study in 1999 that showed that home improvement was the most over-retailed sector in the county?
This measure is nothing but a Trojan-Horse escape mechanism for the Arkleys, who bought the place in 2004 promising “No Big Box. I repeat, no Big Box.” (- Cherie Arkley, NCJ, November, 2004). They are unwilling to commit the funds (probably roughly $10 million) to do a real (legal) cleanup of the parcel. Instead, they’d rather bulldoze the dirt and mobilize the toxins accumlated from decades and decades of locomotive maintenance, then do a bit of testing, after the fact. That is really unfortunate.
Union Pacific, which has multi-million dollar environmental insurance companies in place that pay for such cleanups, should be sued by the City of Eureka to clean up the site. Union Pacific Railroad is a $54 billion corporation. They can afford it. When it is cleaned up, the City of Eureka should return to an open, inclusive Master Plan process to determine what should go there, in the last remaining largest undeveloped waterfront-adjacent parcel in Eureka. Just like the City of Truckee did (see Hank Sims’s excellent cover story “On Different Tracks”, March 2005, NCJ).
Chris Crawford, you are shilling for a corrupt, false dichotomy! There is another way!
I suspect Crawford will be MIA at the Herald so he won’t be asked to back up his impossible promises with the facts as to how it can be accomplished. Does anyone believe he is too dumb to know he is lying?
It is like an infomercial.
If you vote Yes on N you get 1,200 jobs. And not only that, they are high paying jobs.
You get shiny buildings for tourists to walk around and drop their dollars in the new fun restaurants.
Maybe you could live there too, because there will be a residential section.
Again I tell you, NOT ONLY THAT YOU GET within the wonderland of centers, (even though we have cut our police department back), there will be SAFE hiking & biking trails. Think of it! But here is the best part, look at what they will have for the children a bigger and better Discovery Museum.
All you have to do is pick up the phone now and call Chris! He will show you how to distract any thoughts you may have about the Coastal Commission or the effects of building on toxins. Forget all that, Our Future Awaits!
Call Chris now or email him or simply go to the Arkley Performing Arts Center at 4th and G in Eureka. Refreshments will be served! Refreshments! They can be yours!
Most of us who read this blog to stay abreast of the narrow point of view presented and perpetuated here know not to bother responding…
Of course, 9:30. You could do a great job of explaining what those high wage jobs will be and how shifting consumer dollars from existing stores to new ones is going to generate tons of money and increase the tax base in spite of previous businesses closing, but why bother?
Ya why bother when you know you have no alternative, no investment, or anything else to offer besides negative rants about Arkley or paranoid delusions about corporate slavery.
That about sums up this thread
Just a cop-out, Bolithio. You can’t explain what those high paying jobs are or how the MC will defy economic principles to somehow magically produce lots of profit without taking it from existing businesses. The only explanation I can think of is they are going to start counterfeiting money.
Well said Bolithio.
Yeah, here’s our billionaire’s plan, so STFU!
“We could refute all your arguments but we only have time to waste posting why we won’t.” “Well said, Chris.” “Thank you, Rob.” “Keep up the good work, Randy.” “I will, Rob.”
Why would a strip mall with a Home Depot, a few other retail establishments, a ho-hum children’s museum, and a manufactured wetland be a tourist draw? You don’t have to leave Irvine, Sacramento, or Fresno to experience similar developments. Tourist come here for the greater area: redwoods, the coast, and wildlife. They also come for the Victorian architecture, the old seaport, and the history. They don’t come for a strip mall.
As for the economic impact, look to the north. How has Home Depot and Walmart changed the economics of Crescent City? Are they flush with tax revenues?
here’s an alternative to Marina Center: build something that is a coastal-dependent use, which is really the only legal use of coastal wetlands.
Section 30233
(a) The diking, filling, or dredging of open coastal waters, wetlands, estuaries, and lakes …shall be limited to the following:
(l) New or expanded port, energy, and coastal-dependent industrial facilities, including commercial fishing facilities.
(2) Maintaining existing, or restoring previously dredged, depths in existing navigational channels, turning basins, vessel berthing and mooring areas, and boat launching ramps.
(3) In open coastal waters, other than wetlands, including streams, estuaries, and lakes, new or expanded boating facilities and the placement of structural pilings for public recreational piers that provide public access and recreational opportunities.
(4) Incidental public service purposes, including but not limited to, burying cables and pipes or inspection of piers and maintenance of existing intake and outfall lines.
(5) Mineral extraction, including sand for restoring beaches, except in environmentally sensitive areas.
(6) Restoration purposes.
(7) Nature study, aquaculture, or similar resource dependent activities.
Bolithio you’re just repeating the idea that any plan must be OK if no other one is immediately available. You know, physicians follow a principle of “first do no harm”. That means even if someone is very ill, physicians don’t give a treatment because its the only thing they can think of at the time. The alternative to the Marina Center development was already suggested in the Headwater’s Fund grant to develop a public process to consider various options and identify those that have wide appeal and support.
But your real argument, Bolithio, is that its private property and that means whatever the land owner wants to do is his right to do as long as the immediate neighbors aren’t too unhappy. And even if some neighbors are real unhappy, those that haven’t been there as long, or aren’t as well regarded as “the property owner”, then their opinions aren’t that important. In a typical situation, I’d guess many commenters here would agree with you on most of that.
But this property has very special circumstances, going back to a time when Eureka was a very differnt place and property owners did things that are no longer allowed in law. The public at large now has a right to a process where they can guide the property’s use from a variety of choices, not a “take it or leave it”, “my way or the highway” development.
Problem is the Balloon Track ain’t your property so you need to buy your own and then do whatever you want to do with that. Who cares if it’s a Home Depot or a Walmart? If you don’t want to shop there go buy your stuff at Pierson’s. If Home Depot goes broke because all the Plain Janes don’t shop there, let them go broke. Just don’t tell me you know what’s better for me and mine than I do. And don’t personally attack me just because I have an opinion different from yours. Thank you. Peace. Out.
Wrong, Anon. Didn’t you just see that Bolithio, in spite of being a regular participant here, says no one has an alternative to the strip mall? Virtually every thread on the subject has posts regarding a light industrial complex which would actually produce living wage jobs and best utilize the location, but he sticks to the straw man talking point that there is no alternative and refuses to explain how Crawford’s promises of high wage jobs without shifting from existing businesses can possibly work because it’s a waste of time.
No one gets to do anything they want with any piece of property, ‘cept the feds.
won’t transfer local jobs. maybe we can import 1,000 or so qualified workers from…. hum…. nevermind….
Yes Anon, 8.46am, 1,200 jobs is just a little over the top hyperbole. But in time, I can see 300 or 400 jobs easy.
It is not just Home Depot being built there. Retail & office buildings will also go in. This will expand that sector of our local economy.
And for those of you who are pretending to be Eurekans & care about the cuts in the EPD, more retail sales means more sales tax dollars for Eureka. That means budget cuts will be restored.
In a development that will effectively add 10% to the city’s daytime population there will be a corresponding increase in police, fire and infrastructure expenses that will far exceed any sales tax increase.
It is pure fantasy to believe that sales tax revenues will rise because a Big Box is opened in Eureka. Sure the big box will sell things, but smaller stores will not. It is a zero sum game.
And even if 400 to 500 “new” $10 an hour jobs were created by the Marina Center, where would these 500 lower wage workers and their families live? In a tent? Not in Eureka, thats for sure.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
“Retail & office buildings will also go in. This will expand that sector of our local economy.”
Because we don’t have enough empty office and retail space now? How will there be more retail sales and consequently more sales tax dollars without an influx of new money? SHOW ME THE MONEY!
You got me wrong once again Jane. Sure there are lots of ideas posted by bloggers. Light industrial park, grassy field, train museum, industrial grow store, etc…Believe me I have ideas too. What Im trying to point out, is that this is just one groups business plan. People, who are not investors, builders, developers, etc…along with people who hate Arkley, are bitching about his project. They rail on how their ideas are better. They may be.
Still, they should get together, acquire property and implement their ideas. As opposed to just trying to prevent some other project which is something in light of nothing. It may not be what you want, but you dont always get what you want.
Blothio, kinda like the NIMBY syndrome. Against everything except for their own ideas, which never come to fruition. Always ready to give you “their” advice on “your” project, but yet cannot get the resources together for their own. Quick to judge, slow to provide reasonable alternatives. Oh yeah, ready to litigate only when there are court costs to recoup. Sound familar?
“N” stands for November: When pot is finally legalized, this will be a ghost town.
well you can simply go lobby for the change of laws that you deem inferior to your own ideas, go forth steak, go forth blothio,pay the money, get the signatures, change the laws, but until then keep “your” advice on “our” laws to your self.
really…people “should get together”…”you don’t always get what you want” bla bla bla…
How about the people that own the property and are trying to screw us all for as quick a jumbo profit as they can hoard to themselves don’t always get what THEY want?
Hifi is such a dip shit. He’s starting to sound a lot like Rich Ames. More office and retail does not mean more sales tax, dumb ass, it just means retail “musical chairs” with more money leaving the county. Manufacturing, thats what can create more revenue, but we’ve been losing all that to Arcata!
Is it always about money? If so? Who pays the bill when knowingly an owner caps a site known to have CANCER causing agents on the site. They decide to get their project passed by using their money to bribe and bully people into accepting the project and people living and working daily on the site become sick. who pays the bill for this? Us again.CLEAN THE SITE COMPLETELY and put a circus on the property but first, clean it up. Make it safe for our kids to work on or play on for generations to come. DO THE RIGHT THING..CLEAN IT UP. There is only so much spendable income in Humboldt. NO jobs will be created by The marina center project. It’s a fallacy, another one of Hi/Sly and his bully buddies way of trying to make something out of nothing. They think if they say it enough it becomes a fact. Not true. People here are smarter than you think SLY!
Eurekan, you may be nasty but you make up for it by being stupid as hell.
Office doesn’t necessarily bring in sales tax but if you got your nose out of your ass long enough to read what I posted, you would have read that I said “retail & office buildings”.
And retail does not mean all the musical chairs were played inside Eureka limits. More & better retail choices brings in sales from people outside the city & even outside the county. I am an Eurekan, if Eureka benefits at the expense of Crescent City, I am happy for Eureka.
Now try to stop & think. Office also brings in more sales tax dollars if it brings in more salaries & wages for the new office people.
HiFi still hasn’t explained why we need MORE office and retail space when we have empty storefronts and offices all over town. What is it specifically that would make any business want to open an office or retail store at the MC as opposed to those currently vacant? Try to stop and think, HiFi, and explain where the money is going to come from for all those wages, taxes and rent if they don’t produce any new money but just shift it from other landlords and existing businesses to the MC? No net gain in dollars means no net gain in jobs or taxes.
Sly, obviously has no business having this discussion and obviously doesn’t understand economics. Take another pharmaceutical and watch some more fox news. Rush is probably on somewhere and you can cheer with him about nothing.
It doesn’t matter what we need. Thats my point. In this country, people have the right to invest in something, say a development. Its their idea, their risk, and they will float the bill for the assessment, the red tape, the mitigation, and the construction. The project may be high risk. You may not like apartments. Or houses, or stores, or gas stations, or heavy metal music, but as long as they play by the rules, it can and will happen.
Thats how it works. Im not in any way playing judge or jury on “how it works” in this situation. Believe me, I agree that there are allot of BS rules on our books.
Like i said earlier, many of these ideas surfacing here are probably better for “us”. But bloggers ideas about what they think better development may look like is irrelevant. Unless this blog is really a think tank and Heraldo is about to clean up this town…
People talking about issues and sharing ideas about solutions is the only way to clean up a town. Arkley and big boxes are not the answer.
The reason we have zoning ordinances is to allow the people to have a say in land use because changing use does affect the value of other people’s residential and business properties as well as the economics of the whole area. The Libertarian propaganda that property owners can do anything they like with their property is ridiculous but they cling to it.
I’ve found information that could possibly link Baykeepers and Eureka Councilman Larry Glass via some under the table donations to his last political campaign and promises on the part of Baykeepers to donate to his up and coming campaign in exchange for helping Baykeepers to get their way. Could be an interesting race.
HAHA IV! Why would Baykeepers make a deal with Glass that’s impossible for him to keep? Why don’t you wait until you find information that proves illegal or unethical behavior and leave the unfounded smears to his opponents?
“Yes Anon, 8.46am, 1,200 jobs is just a little over the top hyperbole. But in time, I can see 300 or 400 jobs easy.” – High Finance
So in other words, Crawford is running a deceptive campaign. “Hyperbole” is appropriate for an impromptu conversation – but, a three to four fold exaggeration as a campaign talking point it is simply being dishonest.
By the way, I agree that “initially” there may be 300 or so “new” jobs. However, within a year or so the adjustment (shifting) between various businesses will result in a much smaller gain, if any.
And, I agree with PJ that new retail/office space does not translate into more tax revenue. There’s a lot of perfectly fine space right now and much of it stands empty.
the entire internet is a thinktank, bolithio…sad but true. On any given day, in less than an hour, the proprietors of Google Dot Com could tell you within a fraction of an accurate percentage how many people of any given demographic would actually vote for Peewee Herman to be omnipotent ruler of the world RIGHT THEN FOR REAL. Yes, it is a truth of the total reality surrounding you. Welcome to technology. Humboldt Herald and other networked blogs are associated with larger press distribution (the likes of which have a hand in all similar state press…therefore all similar press nationwide…therefore all press) and etc. etc. all being data mined.
Basically…as dumb as some of you motherfuckers are, so will the media be. It caters to the absolute lowest common denominator, mostly those within the 18-24 age group. You will talk about what they want you to talk about when they want you to talk about it, and in most cases say what they want you to say regarding it. YOU ARE BEING OBSERVED.
That line about Larry Glass is the biggest bunch of shit..Lies as usual..
“Investigative journalists” don’t anonymously post vague, unsubstantiated rumours about politicians on the comment sections of blogs. Lying, mudslinging, cowardly smear-merchants do behave this way, however.
Plain Jane, 5.28pm. It is true that we don’t need more office or retail space today, we are in the middle of a recession.
But the Marina Center isn’t being built today. We’ll be lucky if it gets started five years from now long AFTER the recession is over.
And even today, most of the empty office & retail space is substandard & not modern.
Larry Glass does not make political deals. You can’t dig up stuff that isn’t there. What a crock. Sorry “investigate 7:11″, You’re going to have to do better than that. I think you have been looking in your own backyard trash.
Why is it that you guys on the far far right have to manufacture a story that, on it’s face, has no merit. Just write up your “facts” with documented foot notes and we will soon remove your smoke and we’ll polish your mirror.
High Finance, you dork. We’ll be lucky if it doesn’t get built at all. More crappy places that nobody needs to spend the money that nobody has…and for more people to live who have even less money than those who work at the places already here that NEED money.
The Balloon Track would be perfect as an industrial incubator space for the emerging barge-based Marine Highway, coming down the line as the next big industrial project in Eureka. Barges moving cargo up and down the West Coast between the ports of Los Angeles, Oakland, Coos Bay and the one in Washington (and of course, Eureka, located in an ideal spot between the preceding four) will need to be built, outfitted, maintained, and fueled. The Balloon Track is located very close to the Schneider Dock, which seems to be the go-to dock for such a venture. I understand that such barges are ideal vessels for potential hydrogen fuel propulsion. The Schatt Energy Lab at HSU should also have a fueling site/research station on the Balloon Track for such purposes. This is a great coastal-dependent, win-win use for the Balloon Track. If Arkley were a true visionary, he would be pursuing this (or at least, investigating its feasibility).
*sigh*
sadly, the would-could-should be’s usually lose. Let’s stick with this and make sure the bogus “balloon track” that 1/500th of the local population even drives by in a given month gets proper discourse.
I certainly don’t agree that Arkley should be able to do whatever he wants just because he had the bucks to buy the property. He’s going to need to follow the rules as set down in the Coastal Act and interpreted by the Coastal Commission and the courts, and frankly I doubt either his “Clean Up Lite” plan or his overall Big Box Boondoggle will pass muster.
However it is also true that, in the absence of the kind of overwhelming public support that would justify the city exercising eminent domain and condemning and taking over the property, any alternative ideas being bandied about by non-owners of the property are headed exactly nowhere, at least for the time being.
But that doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t discuss these alternatives, because if/when Arkley’s Big Box by the Bay plans go up in flames, he may actually become a willing seller. Then we’ll see if any of those with other ideas have the money to put where their mouths are and buy the property, perform a full clean-up, and then build the “incubator” for marine-related light industrial uses, or whatever other alternative. Sadly, I have little faith that anyone will come forward to take on the burden of a full clean-up, nor could anyone afford to do so based on the questionable revenues from a light-industrial “incubator.” Now if Baykeeper’s lawsuit succeeds in forcing the former or current owners to do a full clean-up soon, and regardless of the development plans, then this might change the dynamics significantly, although it would also obviously raise the asking price for the property (and justifiably so, if the clean-up really is done properly).
Then there’s the fact that “light” industrial is a pretty vague term, and there are plenty of “light” industrial uses that would create air pollution, loud noise, and other nuisances, all quite close by Old Town. If, on the other hand, you limit which industries can locate to your incubator to only those that create no odors, emissions, noises, etc…well good luck filling the spaces. Not to mention the fact that all the aesthetic complaints about putting a strip mall on that location would likely apply to an industrial park also. I suspect that many of the same people who are opposed to the Big Box Boondoggle, would quickly turn against a Light Industrial Incubator for some of the aforementioned reasons.
But all that being said, I think it’s important to discuss some of the alternatives, both because it deflates the “Marina Center or nothing” argument, and because, at some point in the next few years, if Arkley’s scheme fails (which I think is quite likely given all the factors involved), he may be a willing seller, and it would be better if whatever potential buyers were out there (private or governmental) had some idea which alternatives a large majority of Eureka and Humboldt County residents would support (and which could also pass muster with the Coastal Commission, etc.)
“Clean Up Lite” wins!!!!!! That is the perfect summary of the ballot measure at hand!
“I certainly don’t agree that Arkley should be able to do whatever he wants just because he had the bucks to buy the property.”
He may own the property, but he does not own the zoning designation. We, the public, own that, and it is (or was) the job of the city council to represent our best interest, not his, when deciding what the zoning should be.
This is not what happened.
What happens to all the industrial uses that already exist when a big box moves in next door? Shmidbauer, Shinder Dock and all the others will now have there logging and large truck mixing with Home Depot traffic. This could really impact these businesses and what is left of our industrial base. It would be ironic if the last mill in town, and all its jobs, had to move out of town.
12:20, it will all become strip-malls eventually.
Or parking lots.
The cost of the clean up is irrelevant to the value of the land. The polluting entity has the funds to clean it up and should bear the costs regardless who owns it. The land itself is worth only what the market will bear.
Oh Gosh Jane the cost of clean-up isn’t relevant? I think it is to Arkley. Don’t you?
I don’t care about Arkley or what is relevant to him. In the case of eminent domain the price paid is based on local property values, not the cost of cleaning up a brownfield from which a previous owner profited. Land doesn’t become more valuable because it cost a ton of money to restore it.
Hey 12:20, its called traffic mitigation.
—
Question, are there no other places that are compatible for big box when it comes to zone in eureka? If there are, why haven’t they moved in to enslave us yet?
Ya Jane, it become less valuable.
But Jane, he bought in Cheap because of the toxics. Isn’t his profit pretty much about going cheap on the clean-up?
That’s his problem, Turtle. If he has to pay to clean it up and it costs more than the value of the property, too bad. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
Wins, losses and jacks. Sometimes, the “high jacker” is jacked by “himself or herself”. So philanthropical!
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
“Your being observed”.
Did you know that in this case you need an apostrophe? The reason is that it could also be two words. YOU and ARE. YOU ARE being observed. When you shorten it to “you’re” you are creating a contraction, a new, shortened word, though often by only one letter, and
an apostrophe is placed, in this case, where the “a” was.
So, “you are” becomes “you’re”, “they are” becomes they’re”, “can not” becomes “can’t”, “did not” becomes “didn’t”.
Just a little lesson that will be completely ignored by those who made this mistake over and over again.
Bolithio says:
July 31, 2010 at 7:38 am
Hey 12:20, its called traffic mitigation.
——
Hey Bolithio, have you ever seen “traffic mitigation” actually work? What happens when it doesn’t? Have you asked those businesses what they think of this plan?
Neal Latt, 10.53pm. Sadly not much will be made of our docks without a railroad. And the railroad will never come back.
And 10.27pm. Your name calling is childish & makes you look very bad indeed. It brings down the tone of this place. Why don’t you leave & go to the Humboldt Mirror. It would improve the IQ average of both places.
I tell ya, a casino and an RV Park! That’s the answer.
But first make UP clean up their toxic dump.
Yes. Ever been to Bangkok? No.
I love the irony of cleaning up a toxic dump to install a RV park.
An RV park would be more site appropriate and benefit tourism and sports fishing. It would also be easier to remove should a light industrial use materialize.
…or a tsunami.
Do you also use the name Black Flag, Turtle? Jes kiddin! But flood / liquefaction / tsunami zones are better suited to transient uses from both economic and public safety views.
Oh goodie, another RV park. Like that is something that brings in good paying jobs & we have such a shortage of them?
No, HiFi. But it won’t cause a net loss of good paying jobs replaced by fewer minimum wage jobs either.
i aM TEH PRODUK uv UR roolz & uPbRiNgIng!@! SING THE FORMS. Sing the forms with your singature. Don’t look around while singing the forms, frantically, with sweat dripping from your eyebrows. That’s not how you do bidniss n’eez parts.
An RV park would probably take 100 years to recover the money spent from just testing the site for pollution.
What part of the railroad should pay for tests and clean up don’t you understand, Bolithio? Recovering the costs doesn’t have to be considered in future use since they were already covered by railroad profits.
Hi Fi, a barge-based Marine Highway has nothing to do with bringing back the railroad. In fact, it actually circumvents it. Barges would handle containers headed for regional destinations, to be taken from the dock of entry by common carrier truck onward.
I stand by my contention that this would be the highest, best use of the Balloon Track.
If Arkley was really interested in speeding up the clean up he would join as a plaintiff Baykeeper’s suit against Union Pacific to force a clean up.
UP makes billions every year in profits alone. Even $20 million for them is a drop in the bucket. They would settle in a heartbeat if both the city and Arkley would join the suit.
Result? A quick clean up, Arkley’s investment enhanced. Win-Win.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Lots of living wage jobs as well, Mr. Latt.
U.S. railroad giant Union Pacific Corp. (UNP: 74.67 +0.32 +0.43%) reported excellent results for the second quarter 2010. Quarterly net income was a record high $711 million or $1.40 per share compared to a net income of $465 million or 92 cents per share in the year-ago quarter.
http://www.dailymarkets.com/stock/2010/07/22/union-pacific-posts-record-profit/
HiFi-High paying jobs at the Marina center? Geez, You are so far out there that there is no hope whatsoever for you .
“HiFi is a genius!”
“Measure N will solve all of Arkley’s and Eureka’s problems.”
“Home Depot will be an economic boon to Eureka.”
And the big silver ships will be arriving soon from Neptune, or, more probably, from Uranus!
Maybe those nice men in their white jackets will help you to greet them? Some of them may be Crawford’s relatives!!
Mouse, you may be an idiot but sometimes you are almost funny.
Yes, high paying jobs at the Marina Center project. You fools seem to forget that only part of the project is the Home Depot. Also included in the project are a number of office buildings of which there is a dearth of modern office space.
And, while Home Depot does hire part timers, they also hire managers, assistant managers and department managers.
All of which will come from higher paying positions at local hardware stores after they go under. Whoppe.
Home Deopt also gets all of their wood from certified sustainable timberlands. No clear cuts, no old growth. None of our local lumber retailers can or will guarantee this.
so Bolithio says: “Home Deopt also gets all of their wood from certified sustainable timberlands. No clear cuts, no old growth. None of our local lumber retailers can or will guarantee this.”
Should I call you on your bullshit regarding Home Depot and this statement or about your usual claims regarding local loggers in other discussions?
Not even Home Depot makes that claim, BS Detector.
Home Depot wood policy:
http://corporate.homedepot.com/wps/portal/Wood_Purchasing
Replaced carpenter pencils with FSC certified pencils
The fact that Home Depot sponsers the likes of Foxconn and other highly pollutive outsourced sweatshops, through mutual money and the primary…almost-exclusive…lines of products they stock their shelves with, negates any bubble gum certificates they they like to hang on the wall in their break rooms about being a happy friendly good for everything and everybody international multiconglomerate.
Think of it like this: if Northcoast Bakery or Brio made their workers pull 14 hour days 6 days a week, and dumped their wastewater directly into the bay, you wouldn’t buy their bread. I wouldn’t anyway. Everybody’s own line of common sense is wider or, in bolithio’s case, more narrow than others.
Home Depot is a huge sweatshop that works its employees to the bone and spits as much pollution into our atmosphere as laws allow…in both cases, as much as overseas (nonexistent) laws allow as well. I may buy cheap chinese crap now and then to save a few bucks, but that doesn’t mean I’m going to support a bonafide PROPONENT of that practice setting up shop in my backyard, taking any amount of business away from locally managed businesses that have been here for decades, and whose employees aren’t always keeping their eyes peeled for a better job.
The Home Depot in Crescent City brings in around 4 million dollars from Humboldt County residents a year. The HD stores in Ukiah and Redding add up many more millions from HC residents. These are monies that do not go to Peirson’s but would buy local if HD came. It is not a schuffling around of money. It is money that could partly stay home!
And I am not so sure that Peirson pays these kind of wages to their workers:
http://www.glassdoor.com/Hourly-Pay/Home-Depot-Hourly-Pay-E655.htm
Whatabouttthis: go talk candidly off-duty with some employees of kohls in our own Bayshore Mall (remember when every single one of these Marina Center proponents were saying it was it was going to be a godsend?)…it’s the same as with Home Depot. That chart is less than a half-truth. You will start @ peanuts and still be begging for more than 32 hours after a year…at which point if you are hired, you will earn slightly more but have to work 50+ hours per week. Anybody earning $11 or more per hour at home depot works 50+ hours per week, mandatory.
$2,200 a month? Where do I sign up?
Go ahead and sign your life away, Needsjob. There are those of us in your same shoes who need more work, but I refuse to support sweatshop practices as the standard to which I apply. I will not eat a human turd for any amount of money…just because you will, doesn’t mean I have to appreciate introducing those standards into everybody’s equation.
I’d bet that the salaries around here would be very close if not match their low range,
So here’s the reality of Home Depot job opportunities:
Salesman: $8 (average is 11)
Cashier: $7 (average is 9)
Department Manager: $12 (average is $15)
Given that Pierson’s employees have been working there so long, I betcha’ they make much more that these numbers. Just a hunch, nothing more.
Anonymous @ 1:49pm,
Sorry, but I am the Bullshit Detector, and it’s my duty to point out Bullshit.
Home Depot, California: Starting WAGE (NOT salary…that is wishful thinking) is state minimum: “Any work in excess of eight hours in one workday and any work in excess of 40 hours in one workweek and the first eight hours worked on the seventh day of work in any one workweek shall be at the rate of one and one-half times the regular rate of pay. Any work in excess of 12 hours in one day and any work in excess of eight hours on any seventh day of a workweek shall be paid no less than twice the regular rate of pay. California Labor Code section 310. Exceptions apply to an employee working pursuant to an alternative workweek adopted pursuant to applicable Labor Code sections and for time spent commuting. (See Labor Code sections 510 for exceptions).”
You will earn minimum wage with no overtime unless having 40+ consecutive hours. You will quickly realize you’re not being scheduled more than 32 hours per week. This means no full-timer benefits, and no full-time clout. After a year, you will complain. Your complaints will be staved indefinitely until for whatever reason there is no choice but to address them…
You will be given a raise of 25-50 CENTS per hour. You will suddenly work 50+ hours per week, still without 2 consecutive days off, ever. etc. etc….
…Jeebus fuckin christ, the whole deal is so obvious.
where the hell do you Home Depot supporters work?
“The Home Depot in Crescent City brings in about 4 million dollars from Humboldt County residents a year.”
Quite a claim…got a source for that?
Also, whatever amount that HD in Cresent City gets from Humboldt residents that is actually from NoHum residents (Orick, Klamath, etc.) will most likely continue to go to Crescent City.
reasonable ignorant anonymous: Orick has a small population (Less than 500) and Klamath is in Del Norte county. The $4,000,000 claim is accurate, per tracked through Humboldt zip codes by Home Depot. Give em a call.
The only people who are really excited about Home Depot are the handful of local contractors who travel to Crescent City and Southern Oregon to buy their building materials. Their whole business model is based on everything at the lowest possible price. This includes materials, labor, taxes, fee, etc. This is how they generate income.
“Klamath is in Del Norte County”
D’oh! It sure is…don’t know WHAT I was thinking!
As far as the $4,000,000 claim, I just thought you might have a link.
I mean did you call them youself, or do you work for them, or are you going from memory of something you heard, or what?
I know quite a few people who work in the building trades as small contractors, subcontractors, labor & materials guys, etc., and I have never heard of any of them taking a trip to Crescent City to go to Home Depot. If they need a a relatively small amount of lumber or nails or cinder blocks or something they go to Pierson’s or McKinleyville Ace or Arcata DoItBest or a place like that. If they need a moderate amount they go to the Mill Yard or Hensell’s Materials or West Coast Plumbing or some other specialty outfit, and if they need even more, they’re ordering direct from suppliers. I just can’t see where in any of these cases it would really pay off to spend all the time and gas money to go all the way to Crescent City to Home Depot.
Don’t forget Schmidbauer’s.
Yup, and there are others, like Almquist and Fortuna Ace, etc. The question is, is there really some quantity for which Home Depot is cheaper, even when you consider the gas and time. I tend to doubt it…like I said, on big jobs the contractors are ordering direct from suppliers, and for small quantities any small price advantage offered by Home Depot in Crescent City would be swamped by the cost in gas and time to drive roundtrip to Crescent City…unless maybe you were already up by Orick…or maybe Big Lagoon.
I stand corrected. What I was really trying to say was redwood, but looking at the wood policy posted above it looks like its not all certified. I had been under the understanding that MRC and now HRC had the sole contract for redwood to Home Depot. After thinking about it more, it makes sense that they cant guarantee it 100% because they buy logs from non-industrial landowners, all of whom are not certified. However, in my opinion, if it come from CA, its sustainable regardless of certification.
Still, Bull Shit Detector, since you gave me a choice, I would prefer you call me out “” about [my] usual claims regarding local loggers in other discussions”". Please, call out my BS.
“… and I have never heard of any of them taking a trip to Crescent City to go to Home Depot.”
Ditto.
Do forget Schmidbauers,
not at all cracked up to be what it is revered as. In fact, one only needs to speak with ex-employees and disgruntled contractors to fully understand Schmiddy’s problems.
JL
Yeah? I have a good friend and long time Schmidbauer’s employee who says otherwise.
Sam,
good points. Anyhow, not trying to be negative, but I believe if more people “KNEW” how to understand the building trades, then they would understand that to make it means that you either do the work yourself without hiring employees; or, you hire employees and jack off the customer with less quality, higher costs and larger profit takings. Of many of the $300k starter homes, the profit mark-ups were anywhere from $80k-$100K+, believe it. So, how does it feel to buy a home where 1/4 to 1/3 of the sales price represents profit?
1/4 to 1/3 = profit
1/3+ = labor + taxes
1/3+ = materials(improvements)/land
JL
Mike,
your friend is not an “ex-employee”, thus I expect your rational retort, especially depending on who kisses whose arse at the workplace.
Not that I know “who” your friend is, but maybe you could ask him why it takes several deliveries of a unit of studs just to get a unit that is not all twisty pretzels (or is that a preferred contractor thing while dealing with 2nds and rejects). Further, who the heck takes responsibility for keeping that lumber yard maintained – fricken disaster zone with safety concerns……
I can go all day and night on Schmiddy’s! Now, the rude guy who orders the lumber who thinks his crud don’t stink – Mr. Head Hauncho – ya, he is a real winner. Judging by the business location and activities, I’d even go so far as to say that Schmiddy’s is not doing the local public street drainage plan any favors either. So, in a nutshell, I am not a Schmiddy’s advocate, can you tell?
Almquist and The Mill Yard – Best ownership, management and employees around IMO! Plus, the best lumber around too!
JL
I know two contractors who make regular trips to Home Depot. I don’t know if they go to Crescent City or Ukiah.
So, to reiterate my question, what kind of materials and what kind of quantities are they driving all the way to Home Depot for?
Perhaps there IS some quantity large enough to justify a trip to Home Depot out of the area and save compared to the Mill Yard or Pierson’s or Hensell’s materials, but not large enough to warrant ordering a truckload direct from suppliers and saving even more?
That’s the only way I figure it could possibly make any sense…unless your friends aren’t calculating in the cost of their time and gas, or unless they are already at the far north or south end of Humboldt County.
I suppose HiFi contacts are the ones who have pissed off every hardware/lumber retailer in the county and HD
is the only place they can shop. IMO
Every “business” in Humboldt is poisoned with poor work ethics and instead of trying to better themselves plans are devised to keep those out who will upset the apple cart. Humboldt can’t compete against those with the values that made us Free Men- hard work, quality, and customer service. The labor pool in Humboldt is very shallow and you can’t trust anyone not to try to rip you off, one way or another.
Pierson’s is just a dealer of chinese crap and couldn’t give a fuck about the slaves it employs to keep that feedbag full. They would go under in less than a year if HD rolled into town and allowed homeowners realistic prices on hardware along with a much better return policy.
Smash the hammer, and kick out Glass!
“Pierson’s is just a dealer of chinese crap…”
As opposed to Home Depot?
And unlike Home Depot, Pierson’s has plenty of long-term, full-time employees who get good pay and benefits, and who actually know a good deal about their area of specialty, whether it is paint, plumbing supplies, electrical supplies, etc. Plus, most of the profits stay local, rather than being shipped off to corporate headquarters elsewhere.
It’s really quite humourous to see our local slef-appointed anti-establishmentarian, BF, shilling for a corporate leech like Home Depot.
There are certain contractors who march into the local hardware stores demanding prices lower than the wholesale purchase price. They’ll claim ‘depot can match the price without any backup of course.
Not sure if anyone wants to deal with these folks. I bet they treat their poor employees about the same way. Given that attitude, they probably turn over construction crew after every new job.
N is not about HD and Pierson’s.
N is about N-stant profits through up-zoning.
N would do Nothing to clean up the property, Nothing to bring in a Home Depot or anyone else.
N = Nothing = No, thanks. All N would do is add potential value to a polluted piece of property.
Arkley can buy a city council. We will find out if he can buy the public. I only have one question. Why?
2:51, This reminds me of an ad I saw on Craigslist one time. A small contractor was looking for a painter to help finish a project. The key line was: “Must be willing to work fast, and at a cheap hourly rate, since I am already past my deadline and way over budget.”
In other words, MY lack of skill in making estimates and managing crews and budgeting and purchasing and generally being a competent contractor means that YOU need to work harder and for less money.
Needless to say, that ad stayed up for weeks — you’d have to be pretty desperate to work for someone like that.
There is many contractors who fall into that category RA. They’ll nickel & dime ya with everything they’ve got.