Home > Richardson Grove > Thanks, but no tanks

Thanks, but no tanks

UPDATE: Kym Kemp has photo of the protest taken from inside CalTrans.

A rally to oppose the widening of Highway 101 through Richardson Grove will take place at CalTrans in Eureka today at noon.

More info here and here.

  1. Humboldt Politico
    February 7, 2011 at 3:52 am | #1

    Seems a little over the top.

  2. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 5:47 am | #2

    Because the US military doesn’t have Highway 299 on its maps and it thinks Highway 101 stops before Crescent City! And it’s totally forgotten about its depot in Eureka that it could use to stock up anytime it likes! Oh, how The Man wishes it had a navy!

    These activists are dumber than dirt.

  3. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 5:49 am | #3

    Oh, wait, Highway 101 stops short just above the San Francisco Bay Area, too! If only those bases in Alameda and Petaluma had been built north of the break!

  4. stony creek
    February 7, 2011 at 6:11 am | #4

    The “Save Richardson Grove!” site says, regarding the rally: “Bring anything you want to express yourself!”

    Tin-foil hats, anyone?

  5. Derchoadus
    February 7, 2011 at 6:40 am | #5

    A bit over the top.

  6. Capdiamont
    February 7, 2011 at 7:04 am | #6

    Giggle. RG is not a Problem for tanks as is. Not there is any use for them.

  7. February 7, 2011 at 7:11 am | #7

    This poster is irresponsible. To be clear, my husband works at CalTrans and I support the work in Richardsons Grove. None the less, I have enjoyed at least one of the posters put out by the protesters. The nudes hugging the trees was pure art. This is not. This is hate speech. And in light of a world where we are watching images of Egyptian protesters looking into the guns of tanks with all the implications of impending human pain and death, this is over the top.

    As we have seen in political discourse with Republicans calling for “targeting” some opposition and putting bulls eyes over congressional districts, some language and some images can push mentally unstable people to violence. That kind of language should be off limits to responsible protesters. I call for the Save Richardson Grove Group to repudiate the violence implied in this poster and to behave carefully and peacefully at this rally.

  8. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 7:18 am | #8

    The protest group has obviously been infiltrated by government agents working diligently to make the protesters look like unmitigated assholes.

  9. Decline to State
    February 7, 2011 at 7:24 am | #9

    This is as irresponsible as Rush Limbaugh’s billboards with bullet holes in them or Sarah Palin’s marking public offices the Tea Party wants to win with cross-hairs. We simply must move past this extremist “win at all costs” mentality. Calm down people!

  10. February 7, 2011 at 7:31 am | #10

    I hope who ever made this sign is ready to accept responsibility when some mentally deranged lunatic shows up and starts shooting people.

  11. Mitch
    February 7, 2011 at 7:40 am | #11

    I’m not a fan of this design, either, and I’m not a member of the Richardson Grove group(s), but I’m confused by the reactions of some intelligent commenters.

    Yes, it’s over the top. But even if it were to be taken literally, it would be stating only that something is being imposed on Humboldt by force, not that people should shoot anyone.

    It simply doesn’t seem comparable to inviting people to shoot a machine gun to help get rid of a Representative, or even to Palin’s cross-hairs poster.

    As is often the case, I’m surprised that others see it so differently. To me it’s the difference between offense and defense. I’m open to being persuaded, and maybe I’m “blinded by ideology,” but I simply don’t see the comparison.

  12. lumpy
    February 7, 2011 at 7:46 am | #12

    Caltrans is really going to need to widen Richardson Grove if the activists are going to get their tank to the protest.

  13. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 8:06 am | #13

    Way over the top for yet another ridiculous left-wing cause.

    So what else is new ?

  14. treesnstuff
    February 7, 2011 at 8:25 am | #14

    who cares if some wing-nut made a t-shirt with a tank on it? i don’t want to see trees murdered and our local culture ruined so that a handful of businesses can ship things for a cheaper cost. get over the t-shirt and realize what is at stake. save richardson grove!

  15. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 8:29 am | #15

    Kym Kemp says:
    February 7, 2011 at 7:11 am
    This poster is irresponsible. To be clear, my husband works at CalTrans and I support the work in Richardsons Grove. None the less, I have enjoyed at least one of the posters put out by the protesters. The nudes hugging the trees was pure art. This is not. This is hate speech. And in light of a world where we are watching images of Egyptian protesters looking into the guns of tanks with all the implications of impending human pain and death, this is over the top.

    As we have seen in political discourse with Republicans calling for “targeting” some opposition and putting bulls eyes over congressional districts, some language and some images can push mentally unstable people to violence. That kind of language should be off limits to responsible protesters. I call for the Save Richardson Grove Group to repudiate the violence implied in this poster and to behave carefully and peacefully at this rally.

    Response: First, it takes some guts to continually advertize one’s husband as an employee of Cal Trans. Now, with that said, it makes no difference. What does make a difference is the facts.

    Fact is, some people don’t want the widening and use “Freedon of Expression”. Now, as tasteful and distasteful as some expressions go, they are still acceptible via the U.S. Constitution.

    So, for all you funny bunnies who like to creep along the futile lines of censorship, I can only ask that you go back to the desk and research all those years of history from whence we evolved.

    It is wholey political to strip the citizenry of its right to expressions and speech. This is the only way an over-expanding AND desensitized populace will ever get anything done from this point in time forward, believe it – by force (either jurisdictional or populist, and it is gonna be ugly, fricken ugly).

    So, how many of ya’ll are still on the better business bandwagon with the widening? I am still scoffing about the business p.r. – as if the customer will see reductions substantial enough to offset the federal printing press and many of its supporters who also support this project. Businesses are blowing it too with regard to economics and social policies, not just credit card communists who can’t pay their charges.

    Personally, I see the widening need for safety and safety only – and this is only until such time that cars are no longer the choice of travel. Yes, this is a short term project as the future will cause some other stretch of road to be bureacratically inferior.

    We all know Cal-Trans will make it happen a go-go; so, free expressions are now dis-allowed…lola.

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  16. Thomas Paine Jr
    February 7, 2011 at 8:31 am | #16

    Well that should be a fun event……

    As sad as it is the feds WILL open up the grove and there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it. At the end of the day they will cite the commerce clause of the US constitution to say that the narrow road impacts trade on a national level, there for they can regulate it.

    If I were one of the activists involved, I would try to spend my money and political capitol elsewhere.

  17. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 8:38 am | #17

    CalTrans is not “the feds.” The County of Humboldt is not “the feds.” Grow up.

  18. “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE”
    February 7, 2011 at 8:42 am | #18

    SmokeMonster says:
    February 7, 2011 at 7:31 am
    I hope who ever made this sign is ready to accept responsibility when some mentally deranged lunatic shows up and starts shooting people.

    Response: That goes to say that there would be an important wannabe political person present; and, at this time, what wannabe important political person has made their presence known ahead of time? Let me guess, left loons or right reichers, which shall it be for the shooter? How about an independent shooter maybe since in AMerica, discrimination is unherad of.

    Not that it matters to those who abuse others through political propagandas and social mindgames built off the family unit, economic schemes and kickbacks, the penal system, etc… but such is life when power, control and dominion increasingly are burdening the free world of good peoples who are character assinated in favor of covering over social treasons and abuses by those favored by the abusers of societies’ good people.

    JL

  19. Ross Rowley
    February 7, 2011 at 8:47 am | #19

    The tree activists started their frothing by celebrating yesterday in Garberville on the anniversary of Bob Marley’s birth.

    Interestingly, I see Bob Marley and Ronald Reagan were born on the same day. President Reagan’s fans also celebrated yesterday in high fashion.

    Coincidence in this topsy-turvy world? I think not. It’s kind of like our sophomore biology class when on a field trip we gathered up a scorpion, a yellow jacket, a lizard and red ants and placed them in the classroom terrarium to watch them fight. Somewhere God and the Devil are looking up and down at all of this like an it’s an episode of socio-cultural Battlebots. And really, it’s pretty funny. None of this will all matter when the meteor strikes this planet one day and humans are replaced by the more resilient cockroaches who have outlasted everything for the past 300 million years, including the ancient redwoods.

  20. February 7, 2011 at 8:49 am | #20

    Jeffrey,

    I am not advocating censorship by the government. I’m advocating self control by all sides. I’m not saying that the law should prosecute someone for drawing this. I’m advocating that those responsible pull it (and in a perfect world, they would apologize–but I’d be okay with just quietly pulling it.)

    Telling someone you don’t like what they say or draw is not censorship–it’s communication.

    (Also, I don’t feel it takes guts to say my husband works for CalTrans. I’m proud that my husband, my father and my grandfather all have worked for CalTrans. It’s not a perfect organization but is an organization that takes great pains to respond to the public. They provide a much needed public service. Yay, CalTrans!)

  21. Save the trees. Save Humboldt
    February 7, 2011 at 9:03 am | #21

    I am surprised by the reaction of many of the commenters on this site. The tank does not suggest that protestors bring their tank. Instead, the poster points out that cutting down Richardson Grove will open Humboldt to traffic including large trucks, etc. Symbolism people!

    A bigger issue is that cutting down Richardson Grove will cut at the heart of what makes Humboldt County so special. What is Humboldt without the Redwood trees? The mall and a bunch of gas stations???? People come from around the world to see the Richardson Grove trees. At a time when the Amazon is dying, after the warmest year in history, and when horrible storms have become the norm, Caltrans can only think about allowing more traffic, faster.

    I will be there today at 12 today to protest the cutting down of one of God’s gifts to us.

  22. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 9:12 am | #22

    [CalTrans] is an organization that takes great pains to respond to the public.

    Tell that to the Hansen family, whose truckstop and restauraunt has been destroyed by CalTrans’s insistence on closing the existing southbound exit for Hansen’s, for no apparent reason.

  23. Bolithio
    February 7, 2011 at 9:14 am | #23

    Get your facts straight people! Not only is the road going to be straightened, they are going to destroy Richardson Grove! The whole fucking park!

    i don’t want to see trees murdered and our local culture ruined so that a handful of businesses can ship things for a cheaper cost. get over the t-shirt and realize what is at stake. save richardson grove!

    As long as this mentality exists, the lawyers over at epic can continue to park their BMWs at their 6K sq ft houses in kneeland.

  24. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 9:14 am | #24

    “I don’t want to see trees murdered”.

    That statement makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time. It also makes me very afraid for the future of our country.

  25. Bolithio
    February 7, 2011 at 9:19 am | #25

    A bigger issue is that cutting down Richardson Grove will cut at the heart of what makes Humboldt County so special. What is Humboldt without the Redwood trees?

    Thats right! I mean come on, lets not cut the whole grove down!!

    …Oh wait, not a single old growth redwood tree will be cut down? Oh, well thats not what I read on the EPIC web site… The biggest tree is less than 26″ dbh? So what all this BS about destroying the grove?

    EPIC has lots all of its credibility for filling the apparently malleable minds of the environmental community with lies. You used to stand for something EPIC. You used to have integrity. What a shame. I know the jokes about how all lawyers are crooks, but geese. Who would have known…

  26. February 7, 2011 at 9:24 am | #26

    I was against palins propaganda and too me this is no different. Remember 2 wrongs don’t make a right,lead by example,etc…

    No little jeffy their does not need to be any politicians involved for a shooting,just a large gathering of people with ideas and views that differ from the one with a gun. Especially when one side starts preaching us vs. The ‘feds’ mentality.
    Cal-trans employees are more of an asset to our community than you any day

  27. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 9:39 am | #27

    I hope the first Caltrans guy who takes a saw to a tree gets killed by a falling branch on live TV. Does saying that “hurt the cause”? If it does in YOUR mind, I suggest re-eveluating your criteria what’s important, as well as adjusting your sense of immediacy. Some real ass-backwards thinking going on in blog brains…starting to be bloggers can’t tell the difference between the second and third dimensions, or recognize the power of imagination vs. the physical powers that are sucking the planet dry.

    NO more screwing around with Richardson Grove! It’s taken enough of a beating as is!

  28. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 9:57 am | #28

    What I can’t stand (more than the hyperbole) are the outright lies. This project has been so misrepresented by its opposition it makes me question the ethics of the organizations like EPIC who are using it to raise money. How can a democratic society function like this?

  29. JJ Farms
    February 7, 2011 at 10:01 am | #29

    If you are opposed to the highway widening for any reason, please show up! I expect this to be a non-violent demonstration. This road project threatens Ancient Redwoods in a State Park, and will dramatically increase heavy truck traffic on our area Highways. Like dodging mega-trucks on the I-5? Well, you’ll love the 101 after this.

    The tank would not have been my choice, but it’s just a dang flier. No one is advocating violence Kym so take a few deep breathes there.

    As far as Egypt goes, our government supported the dictator Mubarak who turned the guns on his own people when they got fed up with humiliating treatment by police and poverty, not a good track record (for our government).

    Bolithio, don’t be a dumbass. You don’t know anyone who works at Epic, how much they make or where they live.

  30. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 10:07 am | #30

    I hope the first Caltrans guy who takes a saw to a tree gets killed by a falling branch on live TV. Does saying that “hurt the cause”?

    Yes.

    Even if you can’t understand how sick it is to wish death on the CalTrans worker, don’t you realize that your statement is deplorable to 99.99% of the population, whatever their position on the RG project?

  31. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:11 am | #31

    Have you seen the twisted wrecks of cars flattened against the Redwood trees in Richardson Grove? The widening will save lives. The process for deciding the change was rational. Anyone can read the entire report. If the public does not come out in droves to protest the Cal-Trans plan tonight, it will demonstrate that Humboldters are not easily manipulated by ill-informed alarmists.

  32. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:12 am | #32

    I disagree. This poster looks like nothing short of a call to arms. We know people who live in the rural areas of the county are well armed. I hope the police attend this protest to keep the rest of us safe from these people.

  33. anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:14 am | #33

    The tank may also have been used to alert people to this.
    http://www2.tea.army.mil/DODProg/HND/default.htm
    Read they use civil means to get what they want.

    With the Coast Guard now part of Homeland Security and the Navy playing “war games” off our coast do we really need the army as well?

    And anonymous at 9:14 – trees are a living part of the web of life on our planet. We kill enough trees, we die. The Amazon has lost enough trees that it’s turning into a CO2 producer rather than a carbon sink.
    Question Everything – you’re showing your true colors when you spout that we live in a democratic society. This is a REPUBLIC – created by and for use of the wealthy.

  34. Lumpy
    February 7, 2011 at 10:14 am | #34

    Boy, sounds like everyone here has been hitting the bong a little early.

    Random guy are you for real? You hope a man dies by a falling branch? I can’t understand the rest of your post trying to explain what you mean. I know you will blame that on my lack of mental abilities.
    But I don’t care. You don’t make any sense.

    And if you really hope a man dies you need some serious therapy.

  35. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 10:17 am | #35

    How does this project threaten anything? Have you really read the project description? Does anyone remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?

  36. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:21 am | #36

    An anti-box rally being held in Big Box Central? Eurekans love their shopping choices, and judging by tax revenue, a lot of people around the county love shopping in Eureka too. You’d get a more sympathetic audience in Arcata, where they shop in Eureka, but are ashamed to admit it.

  37. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 10:26 am | #37

    Holy fuck, Lumpy, if you haven’t been hitting the bong yourself, maybe you’ve been hitting your head against the wall too hard too often. And thank you, TRA for granting me such power in your mind, as well as perfectly demonstrating my point. Not very reasonable, though.

    Reality says it’s not the heat but the humidity. In blog brains, it’s not the hate but the stupidity.

  38. February 7, 2011 at 10:27 am | #38

    Words matter. – Sticks and stones may break my bones (but words will never hurt me). So, what is it now?

  39. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 10:28 am | #39

    Does anyone remember the story of the boy who cried wolf?

    Perhaps they only remember the first part of the story, where crying “wolf!” gained lots of attention.

  40. Mitch
    February 7, 2011 at 10:30 am | #40

    tra at 10:07,

    Ditto.

  41. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 10:47 am | #41

    Anonymous above…there’s every indication that widening the freeway will present a much greater risk of accidents. Take a look at every freeway in the central bay area. Bigger vehicles with more clearance will drive faster. “Normal” traffic even faster. Right through campgrounds on both sides, bicyclists and people crossing the freeway all the time. Not to mention very abundant wildlife. The accidents won’t be pretty. The project is bullshit, every page and every phase of it.

  42. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 10:50 am | #42

    Kym, you say your husband works for caltrans. If this project wasn’t on the table, what would he/caltrans be doing instead?

  43. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:52 am | #43

    I just complete respect for EPIC for spreading lies, and for Random Guy. Sick. Kym, I see you a voice of reason. I saw the plans for this project people are acting like idiots about it. Get some facts, people.

  44. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:54 am | #44

    correction: I just completely lost respect for EPIC and Random Guy.

  45. February 7, 2011 at 10:57 am | #45

    I think the tank is more than symbolic. But as far as this issue is concerned, it looks just like the rampaging machine THAT IS Caltrans…

    Caltrans has no regard for the environment or for private property. Caltrans is THE tank that violates environmental regulations and gets away with it. It’s the State’s responsibility to hold Caltrans accountable for a LONG list of statewide violations, but they don’t. Go figure…

    Hansen’s truck stop is one of thousands examples of how that Caltrans tank robs hard working people of their liberty and property. That being said…

    http://www.indybay.org/newsitems/2011/02/05/18671201.php

    “According to the Transportation Engineering website, “the most important function of Highway Systems is to ensure the defense readiness capability of public highway infrastructure and establish policy on how the DOD[Department of Defense] uses the public highway system.”

    Homeland Security measures are a high priority in highway construction projects. Left unchecked, we are facing potential invasion from land and sea–increased accessibility for military convoys on our highways and Navy dominance of our oceans.

    We know that the Highway 101 expansion is supported by the U.S. military and so-called defense agencies who wish to have greater access and control of the people and natural resources of this region.

    There may be a lot Caltrans isn’t telling us about the real motivations and funding of the project.

  46. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 10:57 am | #46

    Random Guy, that’s pure hogwash. The road is eminently unsafe right now, with almost no clearance for bicycle riders, let alone pedestrians. If you are concerned about pedestrians walking between campgrounds, you should be screaming that CalTrans isn’t widening the road fast enough.

    Don’t cook up fake excuses.

  47. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 11:03 am | #47

    “Anonymous above…there’s every indication that widening the freeway will present a much greater risk of accidents. Take a look at every freeway in the central bay area. Bigger vehicles with more clearance will drive faster. “Normal” traffic even faster. Right through campgrounds on both sides, bicyclists and people crossing the freeway all the time. Not to mention very abundant wildlife. The accidents won’t be pretty. The project is bullshit, every page and every phase of it.”

    Random Guy,

    Have you read the project documents? What freeway are you talking about? All I see in the proposal is a couple of places where the curves are getting curvier and a repaving job, what am I missing?

  48. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 11:07 am | #48

    10:57, it was cooked up by anonymous above. Reread.

    Does the Richardson Grove Improvement Project improve the health of Richardson Grove?

    No.

    Does the Richardson Grove Improvement Project potentially compromise the health of Richardson Grove?

    Yes.

    What will the Richardson Grove Improvement Project improve?

    Large vehicular throughway.

    Why, then, is it called the Richardson Grove Improvement Project?

    Spin.

    Have Caltrans workers faced wage, hour and benefit cuts over the past few years?

    Yes. Substantially.

    How much did Caltrans say this project would cost, at most, when it was announced to the public?

    Five million dollars.

    How much did they say it would cost, at most, less than one year later?

    Ten million dollars.

    How much did Caltrans say the new Bay Bridge would cost when it was announced to the public?

    Four billion dollars.

    How much did Caltrans say it would cost one year later?

    Eight billion dollars.

    How much did Caltrans say it would cost two years later?

    Twelve billion dollars.

    When was the new bay bridge to have been completed?

    2004.

    Why do some people continue to think Caltrans is working for the best interests of anything or anybody other than itself as a business?

    fill in the blank:________________________

  49. JJ Farms
    February 7, 2011 at 11:13 am | #49

    Random Guy: I’m glad you found the ability to make a good argument, doesn’t really make up for your isanely stupid first comment.

  50. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 11:14 am | #50

    Random Guy,

    Of course evveryone realizes that your wish for the death of the worker has no direct physical effect (assuming you don’t have supernatural powers).

    But publicly expressing this death wish does have the potential to have an effect on public opinion. So if you oppose the RG project, then, yes, expressing the hope that a CalTrans worker will be killed does undercut your cause.

  51. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 11:18 am | #51

    It’s called an improvement project because widening the road (and bike lanes) is an improvement. That invalidates the rest of your points. Try again. Maybe use nuclear missiles in your poster next time. You’re such a joke. You get other, actually legitimate, causes a bad name.

  52. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 11:23 am | #52

    JJ Farms, I appreciate that. How many improvement projects does one have to see come and go to realize the cumulative effect is the opposite of an improvement? Not to mention this improvement project involves one of the last remaining ancient redwood grove, of all frigging places!

  53. JJ Farms
    February 7, 2011 at 11:24 am | #53

    Assuming that it’s true that people have had accidents in RG where their car was “wrapped around a tree”, wouldn’t that indicate that they are going too fast? How does increasing traffic speed and big truck volume make it safer for the general public?

  54. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 11:25 am | #54

    Caltrans funds are not based on the cost of projects. No one gets a raise because the cost of project goes up. In fact, the exact opposite is true. More expensive projects mean fewer projects requiring fewer staff.

    The entire source of cost increases for the RG project is unprecedented environmental mitigation, an unnecessary level of environmental documentation and two bogus lawsuits.

    EPIC is the only one grabbing at dollars.

  55. JJ Farms
    February 7, 2011 at 11:34 am | #55

    Here’s a more realistic way to think of Epics involvement- What would their members think/do if Epic did not stand up for the protection of this Old-growth Redwood State Park? Would they be upholding their role, and responsibility, as environmental advocates? Epics JOB is to do exactly what they are doing, if they stood by as highly questionable projects like this went forward they would not exist.

  56. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 11:41 am | #56

    “The entire source of cost increases for the RG project is unprecedented environmental mitigation, an unnecessary level of environmental documentation and two bogus lawsuits.”

    unprecedented environmental mitigation and unnecessary level of documentation…did I forget how allowable it is to go cut down a bunch of trees in an ancient redwood forest, let alone just to make the freeway bigger?

    How bogus are the lawsuits if they’re being taken very seriously?

    What about all the people not associated with epic in any way whatsoever who oppose the project? You don’t address their concerns. You’re very clearly anti-EPIC, that much can be established.

  57. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 11:47 am | #57

    Isn’t EPIC’s job to be a responsible watchdog? To safeguard their credibility by providing accurate information to their members and the public? Instead they chose to exaggerate and misinform while at the same time asking for money to save a grove they know isn’t really under any kind of threat.

  58. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 11:49 am | #58

    By the way, I’m not in favor of the project. Why? Because it does present some risk to the Old Growth trees that will have some of their roots cut and disturbed. Meanwhile I think the economic “benefits” of the project have been exaggerated by project proponents. So in my view, the likely “benefits” simply do not outweight the potential risks.

    And my understanding is that CalTrans isn’t even claiming that the project will have a positive effect on safety. It seems to me that the safety issues could be adequately addressed by lowering the speed limit, including installation of some of those “your speed is…” radar speed signs. Those really do work to slow traffic, for example on the 101 Safety Corridor between Eureka and Arcata.

  59. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm | #59

    Regardless of the merits, it seems that this project is pretty much a done deal, with construction slated to begin soon. (Does anyone know what the proposed date is for the start of major construction there?)

    I understand that folks are talking about some kind of non-violent civil disobedience at the grove, but I’ll be surprised if there’s enough support to actually stop the project. I guess we’re going to find out soon enough.

  60. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 12:00 pm | #60

    Random Guy, you lost. The road is being improved for businesses and pedestrians. Deal with it. A protest now is sour grapes.

  61. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 12:03 pm | #61

    Not anti EPIC, just sad to see them throw away their credibility so carelessly. There is no “freeway” being proposed and saying it over and over won’t make it so. None of the big trees are being cut and the measures being taken to protect them are (in fact) unprecedented. If you concerns were valid, you wouldn’t need to make stuff up.

  62. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 12:05 pm | #62

    12:00,

    I suspect you’re right that protests will not succeed in stopping the project, but, just FYI, “sour grapes” is not really the right phrase to describe the situation that RG opponents find themselves in.

    “Sour grapes” refers to a situation where you want something but can’t get it, and then comfort yourself with the idea that it’s just as well that you didn’t get it (“…those grapes look sour anyway…”).

  63. Random Guy
    February 7, 2011 at 12:10 pm | #63

    The future will remember those who just bent over and took it anytime and everytime…but only as that…and only because the bulldozers weren’t knocking down THEIR fences. Santa Rosa didn’t happen in a day either. Keep up the good work, some of you, supporting progress through bigger trucks and more freeway and a teeny tiny itty bitty bit less forest that won’t ever be put back.

  64. Hyperbolic Cockroach
    February 7, 2011 at 12:12 pm | #64

    Like the Rowley said, we are just waiting for you guys and your little drama filled blip in time to pass…buncha hootin’ hollerin’ monkees! Evolve or leave the planet to us!

  65. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 12:33 pm | #65

    Random Guy, you are one sick little puppy.

  66. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 12:51 pm | #66

    We all have a responsibility to stand up for what we believe in and nobody is asking you to “bend over and take it.” It is better for everyone however, if you do your homework and stick to the facts.

  67. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 1:12 pm | #67

    TRA, sour grapes in this case refers to the taste of their legal challenge going down in flames.

  68. February 7, 2011 at 1:17 pm | #68

    Simpson Korbel is planning to debark and then export all fir logs to China.May be a bigger issue-the exporting of jobs.

  69. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 1:23 pm | #69

    The legal challenge was a smart bet for EPIC. Worst case they stall the project, best case they win some taxpayer money to go away. No way to lose. Misrepresenting facts in fundraising brochures was stupid if not illegal.

  70. Save the trees. Save Humboldt
    February 7, 2011 at 1:27 pm | #70

    Lock down going on now at the entrance of the CalTrans Office. People have their arms locked and are staying until they get arrested. Thank you people who are willing to make this sacrifice for the environment and the future of us all.

  71. Save the Grove
    February 7, 2011 at 1:42 pm | #71

    Props to the Times Standard photographer who is presently sitting with the locked down protesters in the foyer of the Cal Trans building. If the cops do anything sketchy, he will capture it.

  72. Bolithio
    February 7, 2011 at 2:02 pm | #72

    Meanwhile no one has been able to provide any viable evidence that minor grading has any effect on redwood trees.

    If EPIC and the protesting community had a honest, practical stance, why are they lying to everyone by claiming they park is going be destroyed? That old growth is going to be cut down?

    Say it like it is. They claim that caltrans plans have changed as the project went through the review process. They are right, it did. But they continue to lie about old growth being cut down and the fing park being destroyed. Oh and its all really a conspiracy for the army to invade humboldt for wargames. Not to mention the new airport they are planing to land their atmosphere control planes. They also have to have access to their earthquake machine. This is deep man. Protest!

  73. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 2:08 pm | #73

    If the cops do anything sketchy, he will capture it.

    Caricature drawing is not a crime.

    no one has been able to provide any viable evidence that minor grading has any effect on redwood trees.

    True. They are making wildly unscientific claims. Courts see through this ****.

  74. Question Everything
    February 7, 2011 at 2:15 pm | #74

    CalTrans made some modifications to the plans in response to public comment. Isn’t that the way the process is supposed to work.

  75. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 2:21 pm | #75

    You hate the cops. You hate the compromise Cal Trans came up with. You hate the man who pays you. You hate the Cal Trans workers. You hate people who don’t like pot growers. I am tired of you. This is one of those projects that you might not even have noticed if they had done it without bringing you into it and you came back in 5 years and saw it then.

  76. skippy
    February 7, 2011 at 2:35 pm | #76

    Skippy’s report, 2:30pm:

    Surrounding the Northeast corner of the CalTrans building a diverse group of 50 supporters bearing signs of all types: “Stop the Police State,” “Kiss My Roots,” “Don’t Cut My Mystic Trees,” as Veterans for Peace are setting up shop late on the lawn, Eureka Food Not Bombs serving up dishes of fried potatoes for a couple of hours, and another 30 folks sprawled comfortably on the lawn during the unusually sunny day. 40-60 bicycles are in the racks; a private school bus parked at the ready for protest support services; cameras and cell phones are everywhere.

    In the CalTrans lobby entrance, 40 more protesters are jammed wall to wall, floor to stairs, crowding out the Securitas security guard behind his lone desk, hard disk drive, and binders in the corner. Behind him– and the double glass doors– stood 3 smiling and armed CHP officers looking nonplussed. Loudly singing to a slightly harmonic “Save Richardson Grove!” tune and alternately chanting “Don’t Cut the Trees!” with the small quartet on guitar, horn, mandolin, and drum, the crowd is making quite a peaceable racket taking over the breezeway– while others have commandeered this website and likely others in part.

    6 protesters, arms locked into the circle around 3 metal sleeves surrounding the metal stair railing, appear to be staying for the long run until they’re arrested; unable or unwilling to speak, seemingly stoned into delirious peace and protest of some sort, one is frothily shrieking his head off for moments at a time, his eyes deeply glazed and red. Another chained, linked-in protester, sprawls back and upwards in her sweatpants, gyrating her privates to the Gods and for the people above. Still another two just dreamily stared towards the floor. There is no room to move, the air becoming warm and humid.

    It’s going to be an interesting closing time at CalTrans today. Employees realistically are utilizing other entrances for convenience and discretion. Business is carrying on as normal without much disruption, just the loss of the front entrance and one very patient Securitas security guard looking forward to going home and having some peace, quiet, and dinner.

  77. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 2:46 pm | #77

    Step 1. Clear out anyone not locked in metal sleeves.

    Step 2. Prevent anyone from entering the building.

    Step 3. Wait for the protesters to get hungry, or tired of sitting in their own piss and poop.

    The drama will be over before midnight.

  78. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 2:48 pm | #78

    I thought the Arcata Plaza looked deserted today.

  79. Save the Grove
    February 7, 2011 at 3:18 pm | #79

    Between 12-1 o’clock there were many more protesters, the 50 left at 2:30 were the die hards.
    No one said they were actually cutting the old growths, just the roots which will slowly kill the trees.
    Then there is the question of why we need the road widened anyway.

  80. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 3:50 pm | #80

    Who said they were cutting THE roots? The document says some of the work will be done within the structural root zone and outlines the procedures for protecting the health of the trees where this is the case.

    CalTrans has been paving around redwoods for a long time without such precautions with no ill effects.

  81. humboldturtle
    February 7, 2011 at 4:08 pm | #81

    sigh.

  82. February 7, 2011 at 4:17 pm | #82

    Protest still going on now. CalTrans lobby occupied for the last 3 hours.

  83. Steak n Eggs
    February 7, 2011 at 4:21 pm | #83

    Bolithio…EPIC is a joke. They wag their finger at Caltrans but ignore the most egregious impact to have occurred in our County in decades: Dope growers sucking the Mattole and SF Eel River dry each summer. I am sure they will be ready to pull the litigation trigger once some deeper pockets move in (i.e. corporations.

  84. Not A Native
    February 7, 2011 at 4:37 pm | #84

    Sure, I get it that this project enables commerce and particularly commerce of bulk items. And yeah, it will encourage that commerce by lowering the cost. But to see it as a serious disruptor of choices that HumCo residents have is carrying the slippery slope argument just a little to far, IMO.

    And as a symbolic depredation of tress, the project is trivial. Today I happened to be out by the Manila LP mill and saw their log deck, comprised hundreds of large tree corpses, doug fir and redwood. Those trees were taken from a wide area. If humanity confined its predation to within, say 2 miles of Hwy 101, we’d have a LOT less impact on the environment.

    Sorry, but I feel the real environmental destruction is being done as death by a widely dispersed thousand cuts. Or make that 135,000 cuts, as is the human population of HumCo. If you don’t live here like the indigenous natives had for thousands of years, you’re not living sustainably and are just another ‘cut’ into the environment.

  85. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 5:33 pm | #85

    Do you live like the indians did 200 years ago ?

    Do the Hoopa’s & Yurok’s live like they did 200 years ago ? Progress happens, get used to it. As one who has been missed by inches a number of times driving through Richardson Grove, I have no patience for the people who value trees more than human lives.

  86. Toohey
    February 7, 2011 at 5:34 pm | #86

    From the pictures over at the Journal these guys look like real pillars of the community. When you let the drugged unemployed lead us the results will be…somewhat less than great?
    I am sure 95 percent of the protesters could not explain the project or make a coherent case as to why it was bad.

  87. February 7, 2011 at 5:56 pm | #87

    Better hope EPIC doesn’t get a whiff of this,since we all know “the man” censors our news we have to dig…

    http://www.treeworld.info/f9/study-finds-wi-fi-makes-trees-17467.html

  88. Ross Rowley
    February 7, 2011 at 5:57 pm | #88

    NAN, I believe you mean the Sierra Pacific log deck. Louisiana Pacific hasn’t been around these here parts for quite some time.

    What are you suggesting? 2 Miles on either side of U.S. Highway 101 wouldn’t garner much marketable timber for the production of manufacturing products demanded by the rest of the world’s population outside of Humboldt County. I’m gathering that is your point. It’s a noble point, but as a species, we could also eliminate all of the children but the first born to a couple and terminate the lives of everyone over 60 to curb the world’s population that uses these resources to survive. Who’s first in line?

    Also, if the 135,000 people who live here are not living sustainably like the indigenous natives had for thousands of years and are cutting into the environment, then it’s time for everyone to pack up and leave except for those indigenous natives. To be fair, let’s make sure those last to arrive are the first to leave and work chronologically back from there.

    (NAN, I expect nothing less than your most quintessential, higher-educated response to teach this son of a resource extracting, under-schooled chainsaw-wielding endemic how the cow ate the cabbage.)

  89. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:00 pm | #89

    I did not know about the protest today or I would have attended. It is true that Santa Rosa and other sprawl towns were once beautiful and small. Just keep chipping away and you are left with nothing beautiful or unique.

  90. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:11 pm | #90

    Toohey is right. These people do not represent most of our population. Sorry, you may be the loudest but you are in such a minority. Most people know the way to create change is not by staging a sit-in or camping out and making people trying to make a living have a rotten day at work. There are better channels to make your point.

  91. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:18 pm | #91

    I sure miss Hartsook Inn. The Save the Redwoods League took it from the people and use it for nothing. Now no one gets to enjoy those redwood cabins and the old growth trees in that part of the park. It was very stingy and short sighted.

  92. Skippy’s Report, pt II
    February 7, 2011 at 6:24 pm | #92

    Skippy’s Report, II:

    5:00 PM: The paddy wagon is already in place behind the building.

    On the dot with precision clockwork at Company closing time, several EPD officers open up the Cal-Trans double locking glass doors leading from the interior offices to the breezeway. Chief Garr Nielsen calmly surveys the crowd and leads many EPD and CHP officers beside him to fan out into the small lobby, separating and filming participants. They filter throughout the group, pushing the crowd back outside the entrance doors.

    The distinct sound of a Taser(s) being deployed is loudly heard amidst groans, gasps, and screams– but can’t be seen between the masses of protesters, gawkers, and picture takers in between. The crowd surges forward– but hearing the Taser rattle and spark– starts to panic, backing up and away. They start to run. Some lose their steps. Others scream epitaphs and hitting the windows soundly with furious pounds.

    Yelling and confusion momentarily prevail. The general crowd races out of the way towards the safety of the street. One of the protesters and his bullhorn are demanding justice. Another bullhorn screams the sound of sirens. A young teen anarchist incites the crowd, “Do something! Stop the madness! Stop the insanity! You Fuckers!”

    An nice elderly lady in sunglasses, her small chihuaua tucked inside her jacket, scuttles out of the way of the maddening rush as quickly as she can.

    5:10: Officers push the crowd out of the lobby onto the sidewalk. The sound of the Taser is again heard behind them. Officers quickly slam and lock the doors shut– leaving the 6 protesters locked into their 3 metal arm sleeves behind. They proceed to tape up yellow visual barricades to the windows preventing observation once the lobby is secured with only the locked-in protesters left; outside protesters scream and beat the windows frantically. “Break the windows!” one agitator screams. The windows hold. Another throws his can at the officers and still another spitting on them before the outside doors closed shut.

    5:13: The first protester is already transported and lodged against the back wall near the paddy wagon. Onto the street and with their inside vision obscured, the angry crowd regroup. Others leave.

    5:18: 6 additional EPD and HCSO cruisers with sirens and light blazing arrive at the street entrance to disperse the remaining crowd. They calmly take their positions and direct others to stay onto the sidewalk and not approach the building or property. Arrests are made.

    5:30: The majority of gawkers and sightseers have left; the hard core protesters remaining await their imminent arrest. Behind the scenes and out of view, the locked in protesters also await their imminent fate.

    This will be in the Times-Standard tomorrow– sans the details here.

  93. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm | #93

    6:11 PM there are other ways like the lawsuit in process by two organizations. Cal Trans is a greedy bureaucratic monster swallowing up tax money and land. They run over parks, citizens and businesses and don’t think a thing of it. Pay them the money in salaries and make them leave Richardson Grove as it is. Put them on the dole.

  94. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:26 pm | #94

    I’m getting just a little sick of Random Guy. First it’s “I hope the first Caltrans guy who takes a saw to a tree gets killed by a falling branch on live TV.” Then it’s “The future will remember those who just bent over and took it anytime and everytime…” What is the “it” you are referring to, Random Guy? Are you afraid to name “it?” Or are you just afraid someone might try “it” on you and you might like “it?”

  95. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:28 pm | #95

    Don’t listen to Random Guy. One comment like the first one and I wrote him off and a crazy mean person.

  96. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:30 pm | #96

    6:26 you are people without information, only love for the trees and no science knowledge. I commend you for your illogical efforts but think you to be naive and not in command of understanding of the whole situation. Lawsuits meaning nothing. They will be looked at as without merit.

  97. treesnstuff
    February 7, 2011 at 6:32 pm | #97

    Bolithio says: “As long as this mentality exists, the lawyers over at epic can continue to park their BMWs at their 6K sq ft houses in kneeland.”

    Yeah guy, good knowledge. Get real, EPIC runs on a shoestring budget and pays its employees low wages like all small nonprofits. If anyone thinks EPIC is raking in the dough and getting rich off of Richardson Grove then think again. EPIC is a long way from rich and that isn’t going to change for a long time. The Sierra Club is rich and Carl Pope probably drives a BMW, but don’t be a schmuck and make EPIC out to be something it isn’t.

    The biggest give away that you do not know what you are talking about? You mentioned EPIC’s lawyers, as in plural. Oh yes, that big team of corporate lawyers who work for EPIC. Take a look at court documents if you want to find out how many lawyers EPIC has on staff. I guarantee the exercise won’t take you more than a couple of minutes, depending on how good you are at detecting patterns.

  98. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:35 pm | #98

    Chaining yourself up like that is not non-violence. Sit quietly on the sidewalk or stage a hunger strike if you must but do not incite others to action against you. That kind of passive aggressive crap is as bad as throwing rocks.

  99. treesnstuff
    February 7, 2011 at 6:36 pm | #99

    for all the people who are saying that cutting down the trees and cutting into the roots won’t harm richardson grove, is it really that hard for you to see what this project means for our community? even if you do not consider the environmental impacts, do you understand why caltrans wants to allow staa trucks through? do you understand why similar projects are being undertaken on strategic highways around northwestern california? do you understand that our community will be changed intrinsically by this project? is that too hard of a leap to make?

  100. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:43 pm | #100

    Is it too hard for you to understand that the trucks already get through but it is a barrier for us to compete? It is not going to change anything but make our economy stronger. No magic is going to happen, our sales
    won’t be doubled, and the trees won’t all end up dying. It will have a small but meaningful impact for the cattle people and other truckers who need the longer size transport and it won’t amount to a hill of beans environmentally.

  101. treesnstuff
    February 7, 2011 at 6:50 pm | #101

    if the trucks already get through then how is it a barrier for us to compete? and i know that the cattle trucks get through rg all the time already, so it shouldn’t impact them. and it’s a barrier for us competing for what? competing for a few more bucks in this dying economy? competing for more pollution from trucks? competing for more dangerous roadways with more big trucks on them? competing to turn eureka into santa rosa? competing to see if we can chop up redwood roots and not harm the tree in any way? how about competing to see if we can retain our region’s culture and heritage and not sell out to strip mallls and big box stores like every other jerk water burg in this nation.

  102. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:53 pm | #102

    treesnstuff don’t you realize that many of the proponents of the widening and groves destruction are just not to swift. Humboldt is known for being the butt end of Oregon. There are many intellectuals out there but unfortunately, they are outnumbered by the meat and potatoes crowd. It is pointless to try and reason with them.

  103. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:54 pm | #103

    The businesses that are truly suffering are the ones who can’t afford transport, our ranchers and local entrepreneurs. I have no worry about the chain stores. I want those who maintain our local culture to be able to compete in the big market. We have clipped their wings and now we can take away another obstacle. It is not going to hurt the trees. Do you know how hardy redwoods are?

  104. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 6:59 pm | #104

    6:53, let me correct your not too swift usage of “too”. It is not “too” swift (not “to”) as in your understanding of English. “To” means going somewhere, and “two” is the word we use for the number 2, FYI, since you are being critical of those who disagree with your opinion.

  105. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 7:08 pm | #105

    Do you know how hardy redwoods are?

    Redwoods are fragile! They die at the least whiff of smoke or noise or practically anything. Their average lifespan is like 2 years or something.

    Yeah, OK, so coastal redwoods date back, at least, to the Cretaceous period 65 million years ago. Seriously. That’s the age of the big dinosaurs, T-rex and so forth. Apparently, CalTrans is more formidable than 5 to 15 metric ton dinosaurs stomping around on their roots.

  106. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm | #106

    The biggest impact will be that small local manufacturers (beer and cheese for example) will be able to export goods more cheaply, making them more cost competitve outside of Humboldt. It will also, to a lesser extent, help small retailers who rely on route distribition (trucks that serve many small stores on a route)as their deliveries won’t need to be transferred to smaller trucks.

    Plus RV’s won’t leave as many mirrors behind.

    All of this adds up to millions of dollars every year that will stay in Humboldt County. (Same reason we want to keep Wal Mart and Home Depot out). Big boxes, by the way, dont care. They have their own disrtibution centers and their own fleets of trucks.

    It won’t however make Humboldt County any easier to get to or any warmer. Though if this is what a gloabal warming winter looks like, no Redwood Curtian will hold back the crowds from the East.

  107. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 7:17 pm | #107

    Yeah? You don’t know redwoods.

  108. Cristina Bauss
    February 7, 2011 at 7:22 pm | #108

    Anon at 7:17:

    Word.

  109. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 7:24 pm | #109

    Are Tasers the new Pepper Spray?

    I wasn’t there, so I have to ask… why the use of the Tasers? If they had plenty of cops on hand, and the protesters had already locked themselves to something (not much threat there) then why the Tasering?

    Were the Tasers used against the locked-down protesters, as a pain-compliance method to try to get them to unlock (as in the Torture-by-Pepper-Spray case of a few years back), or were they used against some of the supporters in the lobby, and if so why?

    Like I said, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know what actually happened. Hopefully we’ll find out as some eyewitnesses start to report.

    For now I will just say that the Tasers should not be used unless someone is physically attacking an officer or bystander, they should not be used as a pain-compliance technique, should not be used as a matter of convenience, and they certainly should not be used simply to inflict pain on suspects as a form of pre-trial punishment.

    Again, to be clear, I’m not alleging that’s what happened here, I’m just laying down the markers as far as what I (and I think most people) consider out-of-bounds. It’s important that these Tasers don’t get used casually or inappropriately, because while they are often billed as “non-lethal,” they have, in fact, killed a number of people.

    Given Humboldt’s sad history of police abuse of protesters, perhaps best captured in the infamous Torture-by-Swabbing-Pepper-Spray-Directly-into-Eyes-with-Qtips video, one would think that our local law enforcement would want to be extra-careful in their use of “non-lethal” weapons on non-violent protesters.

  110. Not A Native
    February 7, 2011 at 7:25 pm | #110

    Well Ross, there you go again.

    First you declare that logging in a more limited area ‘wouldn’t garner much marketable timber…demanded by the rest of the world’

    You make a lot of assumptions including what is ‘much timber’. The reality of the lumber markets is that when more is cut, the prices go down becuase the ‘demand’ you assume is really depends on price because alternatives exist, some of which are more sustainable but more expensive board produced by ‘maximum clearcut everywhere logging’. Your assumption were made and debunked back when the spotted owl wars were fought and many former timberlands were made unavailable. In fact, timber prices declined, a major contributor to PALCO’s financial demise. So, despite what you declare, the ‘demand’ isn’t inevitable or fixed and the amount of timber from reduced land is adequate to meet the irreducible fiber needs of humans.

    Second, you declare that killing and elimiating humans is the only alternative to unsustainable living.

    Funny that you should propose eliminating children and terminating lives. I sure didn’t, and don’t. Are you an anti-family planner who believes that any attempt to limit the number of births is immoral and should be illegal? People can and do choose to have and limit the number of their children. And they do that based on factors primarily including wanting their children to have pleasant lives. So, looking 90 years into the future for example, few alive today will still be alive and the the bulk of people alive will be ones not yet born. If there are fewer than 135,000 people in HumCo then, no one will have to be purged or expunged. In the meantime, we here now can be conservative in our use of the environment to insure those now unborn will have pleasant lives.

    Ross, your straw man arguments are old and tired and have been proven false by the boom-bust timber industry in HumCo which hasn’t caused the world to go without fiber or resulted in mass exterminations of babies or the elderly. They said it couldn’t be done, but here we are. Now is the time to show real concern for those future unborn residents by living as sustainably humanly possible, and not use them as an excuse to continue proflgate ways.

    Of course Ross, if you’re certain the ‘second coming’ and ‘end of days’ is about to happen, then certainly you can’t be bothered with that.

  111. “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE”
    February 7, 2011 at 7:41 pm | #111

    Cost savings will find its forms in profit and tax collection. So, let’s not kid ourselves…..

    JL

  112. “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE”
    February 7, 2011 at 7:51 pm | #112

    Kym Kemp says:
    February 7, 2011 at 8:49 am
    Jeffrey,

    I am not advocating censorship by the government. I’m advocating self control by all sides. I’m not saying that the law should prosecute someone for drawing this. I’m advocating that those responsible pull it (and in a perfect world, they would apologize–but I’d be okay with just quietly pulling it.)

    Telling someone you don’t like what they say or draw is not censorship–it’s communication.

    (Also, I don’t feel it takes guts to say my husband works for CalTrans. I’m proud that my husband, my father and my grandfather all have worked for CalTrans. It’s not a perfect organization but is an organization that takes great pains to respond to the public. They provide a much needed public service. Yay, CalTrans!)

    .

    Response: Hmmmm, you may not think it takes guts cuz you are so close and familiar with the reality of what your life experiences and with whom. I just like the fact that you put it out there openly and transparent without beating around the bush – this takes guts in a world today that so many people hide behind tree trunks.

    Anyhow,

    What do you mean by this phrase, “

    That kind of language should be off limits to responsible protesters.

    “. I am glad to read you do not want to restrict freedom of expression or thought or speech, etc…., I just don’t get that one statement, exactly. We must, as a society, be better parents and make sure kids understand the differences about human behaviors…. Personally, anger through symbolisms is normal – always has and always will be. It is just politically, those in power will try whatever argument to make people think that all language should be as virginesque’ as the newlyweds on that matrimonious night, or so many thought. Life is not always peaches and cream, and sometimes it takes negativity to set things back right.

    JL

  113. Skippy
    February 7, 2011 at 8:02 pm | #113

    Kym Kemp The Redheaded Black Belt, reports with the attached links:

    “UPDATE2: Law Enforcement has draped the protesters with tarps and put goggles on them as they cut the pipes. Rumored to be locked down are Jeff Muskrat and someone I’m fond of, Will Druid. This has yet to be confirmed though.”

    “UPDATE3: The Times-Standard Facebook page is saying that 12 people have been arrested.”

  114. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 8:12 pm | #114

    Getting arrested for basically not looking into something well enough to understand? Wasted time. Wasted money, wasted court time. It didn’t look like most of those people had jobs anyway. Sad to make such a redneck statement but it is what I saw. People who had nothing better to do but to go on their emotions instead of understanding the issue.

  115. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm | #115

    Only 12 arrests? I was hoping for more.

  116. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 8:32 pm | #116

    JL

    You work very hard to define us Vs. them. We the people are the Government, we are “Corporate America,” we are small business, we are everyone that votes, buys, invests, consumes and acts. That is the blessing and the curse of a liberal democracy. We have no one to blame but ourselves.

  117. Bob Marley’s Gohst
    February 7, 2011 at 8:34 pm | #117

    Stop using my image without paying royalties mon.

  118. February 7, 2011 at 8:38 pm | #118

    Skippy, your updates are incredible, thank you.

    tra, I have the same questions about tasering. It may have been justified. I hope so but I’m uncomfortable with it and I don’t understand why the windows were covered.

    Jeffery, by “off limits” I mean that responsible people should monitor what they say and refuse to use language designed to create anger and fear. And if they screw up like I did by titling my post Humboldt Hate Speech (hate being hyperbole on my part), they should apologize. And I do.

  119. “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE”
    February 7, 2011 at 8:44 pm | #119

    8:32 pm,

    Actually, I don’t cuz when you digest it, fully fathom it, decipher it dualistically, etc… it is really accepting that us versus them is what is going on now and it must be reversed……so, where are we in disagreeance?

    Also – Democratic Republic :-)!

    Blame is not necessarily plural – it is like this….not everyone is to blame for the mortgage meltdown; or, Tuscon; or, massive over-population; or, energy blackouts; or, a failing healthcare system; or, acid rain, etc…. So, separating the communal from the individual, who is stupid enough to take the blame not their own but by another? Screw that!

    JL

  120. “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE”
    February 7, 2011 at 8:45 pm | #120

    Kym,

    You are a fine human being!!! Keep up the civic involvements and great postings. Thanks for the clarification.

    JL

  121. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 9:03 pm | #121

    Good thing the cops were video taping. This was a passive aggressive (not peaceful) demonstration. If you don’t want to get arrested then do not decide to trespass after hours. Would the prostestors not call the police if someone sat in their home chained to a counter and not leaving when asked. They could camp outisde and sit on the sidewalk waiting to start over in the morning if they wanted to truly be peacefu. Locking yourself to a railing, spitting at the police or other aggressive behavior and destroying property is not peaceful. These people are unemployed troublemakers looking for any opportunity unethical groups like EPIC provide them. Where is Scott Greacon and Natalynn Delapp anyway – did the DA need them today?

  122. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 9:11 pm | #122

    Good thing the police were videotaping as this was not a peaceful demonstration. Trespassing after hours by chaining yourself to property is not peaceful. Would those same demonstrators not have called the police themselves had a guest in their home done the same thing – chaininng themselves to your kitchen counter with misinformation fed to them by a local non profit aimed with not saving the environment but litigating it for profit (SHAMEFUL) Where are you Natalynn Delapp and Scott Greacon – did the DA need you today?

  123. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 9:11 pm | #123

    Watching the channel 3 news tonight, I was disgusted by the demonstrators.

    Disgusted by their selfishness, disgusted by their inconsideration of others and disgusted by their ignorance. Some were quoted on camera as saying “nobody wants this” or “extremely unpopular” or words to that effect. They have not a clue as to how unpopular THEY are. They acted like spoiled little preschoolers whose parents told them they had to take a nap and they didn’t want to.

    Children behaving badly.

  124. Humboldt Politico
    February 7, 2011 at 9:32 pm | #124

    Well, let’s see if all those votes for Gallegos pay off or he’ll actually uphold the law and charge them appropriately.

  125. Bolithio
    February 7, 2011 at 9:41 pm | #125

    Treesnstuff; fair enough. Your right about me not really understanding what is going on over at EPIC. It is somewhat deplorable for me to accuse EPIC of being yuppie lawyers who are laughing to the bank. Two wrongs doesn’t make a right. Still, EPIC not only puts its self in the public eye and operates as a non-profit, it is engaging in practices that are hostile to many many peoples livelihoods here on the north coast.

    I am a firm believer that the EPIC of old took on fights that really did help change the previous climate and view of enviornmental practices. EPIC has plenty of legitimate cases that it can rightfully be proud of, and people here have in many ways benefited from these changes.

    For EPIC however, the well of legitimate fights appears to be drying up. They become notorious for suing over trivial technicalities on any timber sale they can – and by using very misleading support campaigns. These tactics use fear, shock, and pseudo-science to convince people their cause – to make a living suing people – is worth their money. (Funny, if you consider the tax money cost from most of these fights, people who donate to EPIC are really paying twice, lol!)

    OK, so maybe its not a glamorous living. One or two people pull a modest income while a team of granola powered youth do most the work. Kind of like the Arcata Recycling Center. A “non-profit”. But if you want peoples respect back, you are gunna need to start telling the truth about your fights. And stop pissing people off when you protest.

  126. Anon
    February 7, 2011 at 10:17 pm | #126

    To:

    Anonymous says:
    February 7, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Do you know how hardy redwoods are?

    Redwoods are fragile! They die at the least whiff of smoke or noise or practically anything. Their average lifespan is like 2 years or something.

    Yeah, OK, so coastal redwoods date back, at least, to the Cretaceous period 65 million years ago.

    If they are so fragile why do you think they survived so many years. Have you ever seen a redwood that has been cut down that still tries to grow. Have dug up redwoods that anything else would have died and they grow after planting. Redwoods that have been through forest fires somehow seem to grow with their centers burned out. But you think they are fragile??? Have you lived here over 1 or 2 months?

  127. treesnstuff
    February 7, 2011 at 10:28 pm | #127

    @bolithio: the way i see it, the northcoast environmental center is basically defunct and no longer meaningful. that really leaves epic as the lone environmental voice on the north coast. the sierra club and nrdc and the big groups rarely get involved in important enviro issues this far north. there isn’t a donor base to support it, they don’t have offices here, etc. the big enviro groups end up focusing on big impact legislation/litigation that draws national headlines. so, i think epic is a valuable resource that we need in our community. epic is trying to defend tolowa dunes from being destroyed from ohv’s; trying to save the humboldt marten, trying to stop green diamond’s clearcutting and use of atrazine on our forest/waters, trying to stop destructive thp’s, etc. those are all great reasons to support epic, but it does end up that richardson grove gets the most attention. i do not think r grove gets the most attention because epic has some big pr machine pushing the story, i think it gets a lot of play because people care about the issue. some people might think trucks are well and good and should be allowed to drive everywhere and that big box stores are just the way things are, etc. so, people like that will not support epic’s stance. but, people who value life (even if it isn’t an old-growth redwood), people who do not like mass consumerism, people who do not like polluting trucks, people who do not like zombie american mall culture, will support epic. that’s why special interest nonprofit groups exist, to cater to certain segments of people. so, i don’t really understand people on this thread being so mad at epic. they are an enviro nonprofit, it’s their duty to fight back against stuff like the r grove project. also, if you look at the lawsuits they filed, the case is about technical legal issues like specific ESA listed species, road construction through state parks, EIS/EA’s, etc. what do people want, just let caltrans and the local business big wigs get away with whatever they like in the name of progress?

  128. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 10:32 pm | #128

    If you don’t want to get arrested then do not decide to trespass after hours.

    Well I don’t think anyone here has been arguing that those who locked themselves down shouldn’t have been arrested. In fact, clearly that’s what they planned to do — get arrested.

    I do question whether it was really necessary for the police to use Tasers on people in this situation. I’m waiting to hear what the circumstances were, but as I said above, I think there should be a pretty high threshold before they start using Tasers on protesters. If somebody was attacking a cop, or an innocent bystander, that would meet my criteria for when it would be appropriate to break out the Taser. Anything short of that…hard to justify.

  129. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 11:31 pm | #129

    I suppose that when one’s hysterical protest dies, it is appropriate for one to “scream epitaphs.”

  130. Anonymous
    February 7, 2011 at 11:54 pm | #130

    The protesters who locked themselves into the metal sleeves wanted more than merely to be arrested. They wanted to form an unbreakable circular chain of human protoplasm weighing about 1200 lbs that could not be removed from the building. Using tasers would be one way to reduce the mass from 1200 lbs to six more easily managed “units” of around 200 lbs each. Cutting off the metal sleeves would be another way to achieve the same goal.

    The organizers of today’s “direct action” will no doubt be crying to the media about how inhuman and cruel the police were for not permitting them to stay overnight inside the Cal-Trans building. For most Humboldters, who obey the law and expect others to do the same, the protesters’ tactics will confirm their low opinion of them.

  131. tra
    February 7, 2011 at 11:59 pm | #131

    Would the prostestors not call the police if someone sat in their home chained to a counter and not leaving when asked.

    First of all, your home is not a public building paid for with tax dollars, as CalTrans is. Second, nobody’s complaining that they called the cops. In fact I would expect that at least the more savvy protesters were pleased that the cops came to make an arrest, since that is what gets their protest onto the TV news.

    They could camp outisde and sit on the sidewalk waiting to start over in the morning if they wanted to truly be peaceful.

    Ummm, yeah…right. Why don’t you try camping on the sidewalk in Eureka, in plain view. See how long it takes before the cops come and offer to arrest you if you don’t “move along.” I give you an hour, tops.

    Locking yourself to a railing, spitting at the police or other aggressive behavior and destroying property is not peaceful.

    Spitting at someone has long been recognized as a form of assault, and I don’t condone that at all. If somebody was stupid enough to so that, I’m all for having them brought up on assault charges. People may have different definitions of non-violence, but “don’t hit, and don’t spit” should be universal.

    But locking yourself to a railing in a public building in an act of protest is not physically threatening or violent towards anyone. It’s annoying and inconvenient for the police to remove the person, but it’s not exactly a menace to anyone’s safety.

    As far as “destroying property” I haven’t heard any allegation that any property was destroyed, so I don’t know where you came up with that one.

  132. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 12:29 am | #132

    Using tasers would be one way to reduce the mass from 1200 lbs to six more easily managed “units” of around 200 lbs each. Cutting off the metal sleeves would be another way to achieve the same goal.

    Using Tasers to get non-violent protesters to unlock would involve needlessly appying pain and risking injury or even death (yes these “non-lethal” weapons do sometimes kill) to someone whose behavior is inconvenient and illegal, but not dangerous or violent. Hard to justify that, just as it turned out to be impossible to jusifty the previous EPD / HumCo Sheriff policy of swabbing pepper spray (with Q-tips) directly into the eyes of in on-violent protesters in a very similar context.

    [The County and City spent hundreds of thousands of dollars (unsuccessfully) attempting to defend their theory that the cops could deliberately and neddlessly inflict severe pain on peaceful protesters in order to try to force them to comply, as long as this was more convenient than doing it some other way. The county and city spent like drunken sailors on fighting that case, only to have the court rule that, indeed, it clearly WAS excessive force, and that the city and county could no longer use pepper spray that way.]

    Meanwhile, there’s simply no need to use either pepper spray OR Tasers on protesters who lock themselves to a railing. Police in Humboldt have used grinders to remove the metal sleeves plenty of times (mostly Earth First protesters). And as far as I know, that may well be how they got the protesters out of the lock-boxes in this protest.

    I have yet to see any details on the use of the Tasers, who they were used on, what the justification was, etc. It may well be that the Tasers were not used on any of the locked-down people (it does sound like they were using the grinder method to cut through the lock-boxes). The Tasers may have been used on one or more of the other people who were arrested (but not one of the six who locked themselves to the railing). Still waiting for more info on all that.

    To summarize: Tasers for self-defense, or to subdue a suspect who is assaulting or threatenting to assault others — fine by me. Tasers as a pain-compliance technique, or for crowd control, or to motivate people to move faster in clearing a room, or whatever other conveniece-based reasons — not O.K. with me.

  133. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 12:48 am | #133

    “For most Humboldters, who obey the law and expect others to do the same…”

    Many Humboldters disobey speed limits, which is not only illegal, it is actually dangerous to others (unlike locking to a railing, which poses no real risk to anyone). If someone was pulled over for speeding and handdcuffed themselves to their steering wheel, I suppose the cops would have the option of Tasering them or cutting the handcuffs.

    Both would “achieve the same goal,” but the Tasering option would involve needlessly inflicting pain and the risk of injury or even death. Both methods would involve some force, but in the case of Tasering, most of us would consider that to be “excessive force.”

  134. anon
    February 8, 2011 at 7:14 am | #134

    Taser were not used on any of the protestors, nor were batons, or even pepper spray. Those who refused to leave the lobby after hours were arrested using the least amount of force necessary. They were given ample warning and were allowed to stay in the lobby, loudly chanting and disrupting the business of the office until closing time. Every arrest was videotaped and the officers showed great restrain in spite of being spit upon and having things thrown at them.

  135. Bolithio
    February 8, 2011 at 7:18 am | #135

    what do people want, just let caltrans and the local business big wigs get away with whatever they like in the name of progress?

    No. But if a organization is going to operate as a non-profit, we ‘people’ want them to be truthful regarding their mission and claims. RG is not under threat of destruction. It never has been. Yet that is what EPIC is telling people.

  136. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 8:22 am | #136

    Okay, 7:14 — so were Tasers used at all, and if so on whom, and why?

  137. Skippy’s Update
    February 8, 2011 at 8:23 am | #137

    The Times-Standard link to the front page article “Richardson Grove Rally Takes a Violent Turn” by Matt Drange and Donna Tam, isn’t posted yet.

    The article states a dozen people were arrested after EPD Chief Nielsen issued a verbal warning for the crowd to disperse. Six protesters were chained into metal sleeves; one protester refused to stop banging his drum; another wearing a bicycle U-lock around his neck; yet another throwing a mug full of coffee and a metal sign . Chief Nielsen, surprised at the crowd’s hostility, said some simply lied on the ground while multiple others kicked officers. Two officers received minor injuries.

    Nielsen noted the protesters could have been arrested at any point during their takeover of the Caltrans lobby– but were allowed to continue until 5 p.m. Chief Nielsen said none of the protesters were injured and “no officer used his baton, Taser, or pepper spray.” A Times-Standard photograph does show an officer with baton in hand. Nielsen added, “All in all, it went well as it could have given the situation. It’s just too bad that it had to get confrontational like that at the end.”

    At least 12 officers were present. Along with CHP and EPD, agents from the Redwood Empire Municipal Insurance Fund ‘covering local officers in similar situations,’ filmed the arrest. An HCSO officer “who specializes in cutting through metal bands around the arms of the protesters was on the scene and would remove them by cutting out a small wedge with a power saw,” Nielsen said.

    Caltrans District 1 Director Charles Fielder had left before the arrests were made. He noted, “People have a right to organize and protest, we have a diverse community and that showed today,” adding that “if people were inside the building after closing they would have to be removed.”

    Fielder also stated, “This particular project is minor in nature… yet when you look at some of the information that gets posted… a lot of it is simply incorrect. Either people are misinformed, or they choose to be misinformed.” Fielder noted the Richardson Grove project calls for road widening of two to four foot increments at points– and no old-growth redwood trees will be removed.

    Protesters disagree– not mentioned in the Times-Standard is their vow to take direct action for Richardson Grove as their next step.

  138. “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE”
    February 8, 2011 at 8:30 am | #138

    Wow,

    so what is going on with the taser? Were they used last night??? If so, was there an extra shock due to the conductive nature of the steel piping encased around electrically charged human tissue? Transmission of the charge through a larger surface area of metal conductivity. I wonder how that went down?

    What better ideas are out there to disassemble people piped together like a stalled line of box cars or a dug-in let others circle the wagon affect? Obviously, some physicalness is needed to disassemble – question is how much and when is how much too far for law enforcement. AH, the beauty and the beast of protestings.

    JL

  139. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 8:49 am | #139

    From Skippy’s second report:

    The distinct sound of a Taser(s) being deployed is loudly heard … but can’t be seen between the masses of protesters, gawkers, and picture takers in between. The crowd surges forward– but hearing the Taser rattle and spark…

    From the T-S article:

    Chief Nielsen said none of the protesters were injured and “no officer used his baton, Taser, or pepper spray.”

    So, Skippy, is it possible that what you thought was the “distinct sound of a Taser being deployed” was in fact something else?

  140. skippy
    February 8, 2011 at 8:52 am | #140

    For enquiring readers: Yes, yours truly was at the protest. I clearly and distinctly heard the snap, crackle, and pop of a Taser– not once, but twice as officers approached.

    Chief Nielsen, an honest and professional officer in all respects, clearly stated in today’s Times Standard that a Taser was not deployed by any officer.

    Yours truly is familiar with Tasers and similar devices in use. To note, it was also observed all officers present were relatively calm and in control given the circumstances.

    As reported, it was heard but couldn’t be seen due to visual observation obscured by the panicking crowd. I asked another in front of me, “Did you see a Taser used?” but he didn’t know due to the ongoing confusion at hand.

    Perhaps more details whether one was merely heard or deployed, by officer or protester, for use or as distraction– will come later.

  141. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 8:55 am | #141

    …another throwing a mug full of coffee and a metal sign . Chief Nielsen, surprised at the crowd’s hostility, said some simply lied on the ground while multiple others kicked officers. Two officers received minor injuries.

    If this is accurate, it reflects very poorly on the individuals who did these things. Throwing objects, kicking officers or spitting at them (as previously reported) is NOT within any reasonable definition of non-violence. And, whether it’s fair or not, these sorts of actions by some protesters have a negative effect on the way people view the rest of the protesters.

  142. Dancing
    February 8, 2011 at 8:56 am | #142

    A peaceful protest would have them removing the pipes and voluntarily leaving at closing. They made their point. Albeit, backward, misinformed and pitiful… but, point taken.

    If they would not leave at closing they should be treated like criminals trespassing and drug out as a group, making sure that the building is not damaged as they clear the doorway.

  143. Dancing
    February 8, 2011 at 8:57 am | #143

    Perhaps that should have been “dragged”. Can’t imagine why I substituted “drug”…Freudian I guess.

  144. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 9:08 am | #144

    The T-S report also included this bizzzaro line:

    More than a dozen law enforcement officers were on the scene, yelling to officers, “Get off our doorstep and we’ll get off yours,” and holding signs reading “R.I.P. Richardson Grove Improvement Project.”

    Gotta be a typo, right? Don’t they have somebody proofreading this stuff?

  145. Fool On Hill
    February 8, 2011 at 9:14 am | #145

    Fielder is right – someone is doing some misinforming. Water Board take note: On November 16, 2010 the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency gave Caltrans one year to upgrade its statewide storm water management program and control discharges or face penalties under the Clean Water Act. The Nov. 17, 2010 San Francisco Chronicle report “Caltrans cited by EPA for water pollution” states, “At any given construction site the problems may not have required enforcement, but taken as a whole the agency was very concerned with the deficiencies that were seen.”

    Then there was the county’s misinformation campaign backed by Headwaters Fund money to hire a PR firm and place 6 pro-project My Words in the Times-Standard. And before that, the bogus online survey and Gallo study to “justify” the project.

    Yeah, there’s been some misinformation going around alright.

  146. skippy
    February 8, 2011 at 9:23 am | #146

    Kym Kemp, outstanding reporter and photographer of the Redheaded Blackbelt, garnered special access to some rare behind the scenes photos here.

    I encourage the reader to take a look.

    Kym also wisely notes:

    “According to sources inside the building the officers maintained professional and calm attitudes during all the times they were witnessed by the sources.”

    “There were no uses of taser seen either. But the sound of the electronically locked door being held forcibly open made a sound very similar to that of the taser.”

    Thank you for that important clarification, Kym. Perhaps that’s what was heard and a good explanation.

  147. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 9:24 am | #147

    “Dancing,”

    Well they didn’t necessarily need to unlock and voluntarily leave in order to meet my definition of a “peaceful” protest. Sitting locked to a railing, or lying down on the floor are not what I would consider violent acts. I’m sure that those peaceful/passive protesters fully expected that they would be removed and arrested, and that’s exactly what happened. Most likely they will be charged with simple trespass.

    However, if, as the police chief claimed, some individual threw a coffee mug and a metal sign at officers, and multiple people kicked the officers, well, those would certainly qualify as violent actions. The use of greater force against such individuals is to be expected, and I would also expect more serious charges for these individuals.

    We’ll have to see what the video and eyewitness statements reveal about the behavior of both police and protesters.

  148. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 9:34 am | #148

    If Kym’s report is accurate, that may explain why some witnesses thought that they had heard the sound of Tasers being used.

    If the police acted calmly and avoided using excessive force, that would represent a significant improvement over the way police behaved in previous incidents (such as the infamous Pepper-Spray-by-Qtip case). I sincerely hope that is the case.

    If any of the protesters did commit deliberate acts of violence (such as kicking police), they should be held accountable for their actions.

  149. February 8, 2011 at 9:36 am | #149

    That line in the T-S article about the police not using their tazers or batons is a complete lie. The refusal by protesters to leave caused police to break out their tazers and billy clubs. In fact, one of the pics at the T-S shows an officer brandishing both a club and a tazer towards the crowd. They swung their tazers wildly in front of them, trying to haze the crowd out of the building like cattle or bison. Basically they were using them like cattle prods, zapping the people who were closest to them. That is when a few things were thrown.

    I heard the tazers crackle before I saw them, but when I saw them there was absolutely no mistaking it. It was definitely not the door.

    Non-violent people were being subjected to pain holds behind police lines. One of the protesters who had locked to the railing was on medical watch last night in the jail because police use numchucks like a nut-cracker on his ankle, while he was still locked down.

  150. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 9:38 am | #150

    So many in their private little bubble, their personal compounds enough that they don’t care to recognize Richardson Grove as part of their own backyard as well. Passing on the NIMBY through less forest and more freeway, complaining about the complainers who care about it enough for everybody. PG&E wants you to bend over so they can shove a smart meter up your ass. Must be for all the right reasons! Caltrans wants you to bend over so they can drive big ol’ trucks up your ass. Must be for all the right reasons! Bunch of out of touch farts who have come to feel a sense of human belonging within the national business model that really doesn’t give a shit…a faceless flag literally paving itself over the earth like a cancer. White trash in clean bags.

  151. tra
    February 8, 2011 at 9:43 am | #151

    Thanks, Farmer, for your report.

    So now we have at least one eyewitness who claims that the Tasers were used.

    The plot thickens.

  152. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 9:44 am | #152

    Random Guy, some of us are not concerned because we’ve actually looked into the project and don’t see anything alarming. Or rather, we had concerns, but CalTrans changed the project to address our concerns. The misinformation and lies by some of the activists is concerning however.

  153. Dancing
    February 8, 2011 at 9:44 am | #153

    Cattle prods. Now there’s an idea who’s time has come.

  154. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 9:47 am | #154

    Tazers were not used. Making up lies because you’re not getting your way is juvenile. Grow up.

  155. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 9:52 am | #155

    Anonymous 9:44, is a(nother) portion of Richardson Grove…not only a world monument globally recognized as among the most beautiful places on the planet, but among the last remaining….going to be compromised to support more traffic, for the stated purpose of expediting and increasing building development in and around Humboldt County? Is the project being peddled as a local boon instead? Whatever your concerns are/were, aren’t what “some of us” are concerned about…the proof of legitmacy to our concerns exists everywhere.

  156. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 9:58 am | #156

    Random Guy, it’s a fantastic grove. A handful of minor trees are being cut. It’s not the end of the world. The old growth will easily survive. The species hasn’t survived 65 million years for nothing. If there was science behind the claims, I’d be on your side in a heartbeat, but there isn’t evidence to support the claims being made by activists.

  157. February 8, 2011 at 9:59 am | #157

    To be clear, I don’t know for certain how many people were actually tazed, but one person who was near me in the crowd was tazed twice in the back while trying to leave.

    I was standing just inside the door when the police tried to push everyone out.

  158. Mitch
    February 8, 2011 at 10:01 am | #158

    A few questions.

    According to the T-S, someone from the police’s insurance company was videotaping the police behavior. Was anyone representing the protesters allowed to videotape? How can the insurance company’s tape be considered definitive if their goal is to prevent having to pay out for charges against the police?

    If the police have nothing to hide, why do they feel the need to block the view through glass doors?

    And does CalTrans have security cameras in any areas where there was police interaction with the protesters? Is that video available?

  159. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 10:03 am | #159

    It’s never the end of the world, is it anonymous? Nobody’s knocking down the fences around your private bubble. Santa Rosa didn’t happen in a day either. Science prooves: kill a bunch of trees in a grove and pave where they stood, they will never grow back. Science prooves less than 3% of these particular groves remain in the entire world…right here in our backyard, Humboldt County.

  160. February 8, 2011 at 10:04 am | #160

    There is no scientific evidence to support the claim that there will be no harm to the Old-growth. The techniques they plan to use to dig up the roots and seal them in concrete foam are new.

  161. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 10:33 am | #161

    Farmer, the onus is on you to prove harm will be done. It’s not CalTrans’ job to prove a negative. The court will side with CalTrans seeing as you have no evidence.

    Random Guy, you’ve lost touch with reality. Much greater environmental harm is done in everyday routine roadwork. I don’t see you protesting any of it. You’ve become fixated on some big lies and have lost touch with reality. You give legitimate protesters a bad name. Tim McKay is rolling over in his grave right now. Shame on you.

  162. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 10:51 am | #162

    “Much greater environmental harm is done in everyday routine roadwork”

    This is a comparative thing? Well why protest anything the industrial movement wants to bulldoze unto us…compared to all the nuclear weapons the united states alone has detonated on, above and below ground, this is trite indeed.

    “I don’t see you protesting any of it”

    Really?

    “You’ve become fixated on some big lies and have lost touch with reality”

    Nope, I’m only concerned with that which cannot be denied, like the fact that over 97% of our redwood forests have already been wiped out, and the fact that places like New York, Los Angeles and the Bay Area all came to be one “improvement project” at a time.

    “You give legitimate protesters a bad name.”

    I applaud all who are protesting caltrans’ plans for Humboldt County. You’ve done nothing on this forum but attempt to discredit them by way of Caltrans’ own rhetoric, failing to even acknowledge their patently obvious spin.

    “Tim McKay is rolling over in his grave right now. Shame on you.”

    Speaking for the dead out of spite? Shame on who now? And what of the dead americans native to this land? What do you think they think, oh great conduit of the spirit world?

  163. Bob
    February 8, 2011 at 10:57 am | #163

    Random Guy, you’ve lost touch with reality. Please seek help before you harm yourself or someone else.

  164. skippy
    February 8, 2011 at 11:03 am | #164

    The link to today’s Times-Standard article is up and found here for readers.

    Upon enlarging the first photograph in the link, a distinct yellow Taser can be seen drawn in the officer’s left hand, baton in the right slightly touching a protester; no serious contact of either made at the time of photographing.

  165. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 11:04 am | #165

    Thanks, bob. No more Caltrans factoids about forests and the benefits of freeways to spit at us?

  166. xandra
    February 8, 2011 at 11:09 am | #166

    So we need to scientifically prove that the trees would be damaged, that our way of life is threatened, that a freeway all the way to CoosBay is contemplated before we can oppose the plan. I think that the possibility of any of those thing s happening is cause to oppose the plan.

    It is obvious to me that the trees that fell in Sequoia Park en masse during a wind storm were those along the existing road through the park. A roadway is already a weak place for trees. Dont’ make it weaker. “The Redwooods would survive”. Where’s the scientific evidence for that???

  167. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 11:25 am | #167

    No, encourage Random Guy to speak out more.

    The more he does, the more people he disgusts and the more people realize these kooks are not worth the bother.

  168. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 11:30 am | #168

    Leave Richardson Grove as it is. The fact that the Stupid Eureka Chamber of Commerce wants this should be a red flag. They wouldn’t know about successful business if it it them in the face. Charles Fielder is just another tiny bureaucrat doing his best to keep his workers and himself employed by spending money of the tax payer.

  169. California born
    February 8, 2011 at 11:42 am | #169

    A healthy forest contains many species of trees. When trees surrounding redwoods are cut you weaken the support system. Sad that you people that live in such a wonderful and special place have no respect for it. The Redwoods should really be considered an endangered species being that there are so few left. We are slowly, inch by inch, ruining California.

  170. Richard
    February 8, 2011 at 11:48 am | #170

    The state of California is broke and every program is being cut, including children’s heath, education and all social services. How is it we have the money to build or rebuild roads that are not broken? If safety is the issue, lower the speed or install a stop light for one way traffic. If we are going repave roads, give the money to the county to fix some our very broken roads. Why are folks willing to turn a blind eye to this poor use of money during a financial crisis?

  171. Farmer
    February 8, 2011 at 11:55 am | #171

    Perhaps I’m wrong but isn’t the onus to disprove possibility of harm on the plan proposer, hence the need for them to prepare a negative declaration stating that the project will not have significant adverse effects?

  172. Dancing
    February 8, 2011 at 12:10 pm | #172

    Farmer Neal, methinks thou dost protest too much.

  173. Save the Richardson Four
    February 8, 2011 at 12:16 pm | #173

    I totally get it now. These people are the counter example to extreme rightwing prolifers. It doesn’t matter how small and inconsequential these four trees are. Every tree is sacred. That’s why they protest every single bit of construction in Humboldt County. Like all those sit-ins and chaining themselves to bulldozers when McKinleyville’s trees and Cutten’s trees and all the other trees went down. (Uhh, that all happened, right? I wouldn’t want to think these guys are idiot hypocrites.)

    Every tree is sacred. Save the Richardson Four!

  174. Save the Richardson Four
    February 8, 2011 at 12:22 pm | #174

    You can’t have our damn trees. Get busy building flying cars.

  175. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 12:24 pm | #175

    California Born, did you know that no trees over 21-24 inches in diameter will be cut and that only one tree within the park limits will be cut?

  176. Farmer
    February 8, 2011 at 12:25 pm | #176

    Farmer Neal?… ok, I guess that’s a decent name, and you’re not alone Dancing.

    Hey, SRF, what the hell are you talking about? This is way bigger than four trees. Btw, in case you didn’t realize, there are people actively stopping clear-cutting and development in Cutten by occupying the tree-tops. It’s been going on there for two years, check out efhumboldt.org

    And so you know, I cut down trees for a living.

  177. Save the Richardson Four
    February 8, 2011 at 12:25 pm | #177

    Lando could do it. You have no excuses. Build your floating cities and leave our trees alone!

  178. Farmer
    February 8, 2011 at 12:28 pm | #178

    Fuck Lando

  179. Save the Richardson Four
    February 8, 2011 at 12:39 pm | #179

    Farmer, disrespecting the administrator of Cloud City is not going to help our cause. STFU!

  180. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 12:41 pm | #180

    Uh, actually, it really is about only 4 trees. I suggest you look at the proposed project before embarrassing yourself further. Misstating statements of fact will only earn you the scorn of the court as a liar.

  181. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 12:42 pm | #181

    “I read the report made by Caltrans and Caltrans says this is a very good thing so I’m all for it! Caltrans also says anybody who disagrees are a bunch of liars who don’t know what they’re talking about, so BOO to you protestors! Read the Caltrans report like I did! No longer do I have to suffer as Caltrans tells me I’ve been suffering all these years! Bigger freeways, bigger trucks, and lots more of both! Who has time to see the forest through the trees when driving through at 65mph on the freeway? GET OUT OF THE WAY FOR PROGRESS!!!”

  182. geoff
    February 8, 2011 at 12:47 pm | #182

    Tasers were definitely used. I was right in the front when they were deployed, though I managed to escape their shocking effects. I spoke personally with 2 individuals who were tased, one of which was a nice young lady not more than 5 feet tall, who was trying to leave but was stuck in front of the crowd. Garr Nielsen, while I’m sure is a very nice guy, is a liar, or misinformed.

  183. Steak n Eggs
    February 8, 2011 at 12:48 pm | #183

    The project clearly serves the greater good and therefore will move forward. Despite the lies and propaganda, most reasonable people who have studied and participated in the process are satisfied with the proposal. Predictably, the vocal minority and EPIC overstate and exaggerate the potential impacts, and do what they do best: Scream, bitch lie, and create conspiracy theories. There is a reason that most people ignore the protesters. Its no wonder nobody wants you at the table.

  184. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 12:56 pm | #184

    Whose greater good is being served, you big ol’ plate of steak n’ eggs? You belong to those who have conspired the theory that people who oppose the project are a bunch of “bitching liars”.

  185. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 1:09 pm | #185

    Thank goodness the mob that stormed the Cal-Trans building did not carry ropes and guns along with their misinformed anger.

  186. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 1:13 pm | #186

    The conclusions reached by the projects detractors simply have no basis from either a scientific or anecdotal standpoint. This includes their assertions about the health of the trees, the growth inducing impacts and the economics.

    Without any factual basis for opposition, the arguments get built on exaggeration, emotion and fear. All of which will eventually lead to violence and hate.

    Organizations like EPIC must be held accountable for the consequences of fueling this growing conflict. For all of our sakes, I hope they change course and become more honest about what this project really is and isn’t before someone does something stupid.

  187. Farmer
    February 8, 2011 at 1:21 pm | #187

    More than 4 trees will be affected. To state otherwise is to lie. And the administrator of cloud city is a freaking turncoat, ask Han Solo.

  188. Random Guy
    February 8, 2011 at 1:28 pm | #188

    The complete disregard of the cumulative effects of projects like this, and careless attitude toward OUR ENDANGERED LOCAL TREASURES makes me sick. What makes me even more sick is the degree to which folks like 1:13pm above make the conscious decision to not only “pick a side” without vested interest, but to absolutely disregard the real facts of the matter. Caltrans and state agencies are wholly and entirely responsible for “flueling this growing conflict.”

    Can’t see the forest through the trees…the living dead in their private bubbles.

  189. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 1:34 pm | #189

    You can clearly see the taser in the T-S photo. You can also see a ton of cameras, both still and video, in the crowd. If someone was tasered one would expect it to have been caught by a camera.

  190. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 1:46 pm | #190

    Richard 11:48 got it right.

    $10 million is better spent on Hwy. 101 in Eureka where pedestrian, cyclist and motorist injury rates are among the highest in Ca!

    The trucks are already getting through Richardson Grove. Future prosperity ain’t coming from China, especially when it inevitably costs $10 million to fill a tanker! Short sea shipping will get local products to larger markets.

    Better yet, use the $10 million to reopen our public elementary schools.

  191. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 1:55 pm | #191

    The T-S also states the CHP and the Insurance fund filmed the arrests. Not that anyone will believe anything they don’t want to hear anyway.

    I heard Jerry Brown is proposing to close the park and log Prairie Creek to help close the State’s budget shortfall. Now that would be a real loss, but the timber is worth millions and schools are closing.

  192. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 2:01 pm | #192

    Jerry Brown would never log anything.

  193. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 2:05 pm | #193

    The plan states only 4 trees within the park. None of the trees are large.

  194. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 2:22 pm | #194

    Actually it is more like 20 or so trees in the park. But much of what is defined as a tree we would call shrubs or undergrowth. Two are redwood saplings, the rest are understory hardwoods. The pictures at the DOT website tell the story best.

  195. California born
    February 8, 2011 at 3:03 pm | #195

    Anonymous 12:24 You don’t even know that a forest has a canopy of of different sizes and species of plants to be healthy. The sum of the parts makes the total. You must work for CalTrans.

  196. Plain Jane
    February 8, 2011 at 3:12 pm | #196

    Prairie Creek will never be logged no matter who is governor. Destroying an irreplaceable treasure to fund a budget deficit is insane. The agenda behind “starving the beast” is to force privatization of government services and public property. Those sick bastards can never have enough.

  197. California born
    February 8, 2011 at 3:14 pm | #197

    CalTrans would be out of business if there wasn’t tax money to spend and places to wreck.

  198. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 3:25 pm | #198

    Starving the beast may be to force privitization, but can you think of another reason?

    Like say, to try and force the government to reduce spending and overtaxing the people?

  199. Plain Jane
    February 8, 2011 at 3:52 pm | #199

    Yeah, because those poor “over-taxed” people own a larger share of wealth today than at any time in modern history and they just can’t stand not to be allowed to own it all.

  200. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 4:54 pm | #200

    This project is so incredibly benign. The carpetbagging protesters don’t have clue what the project actually entails. What a waste of their energy.

  201. Mitch
    February 8, 2011 at 5:26 pm | #201

    3:25,

    If the purpose of “starving the beast” were to reduce overtaxation, the same people who were in favor of “starving the beast” would have opposed Mr. Bush’s wars, especially his war of choice. They would oppose government subsidies of major industries, and would oppose the vast sums expended in the name of maintaining the world’s largest military.

    But they don’t; in fact, “starving the beast” is almost synonymous with supporting the military and corporate subsidies that define modern America.

    So the conclusion many of us reach, HiFi, is that “starving the beast” means eliminating the safety net for the most vulnerable citizens.

    It is, to many of us, a mystifying desire. Personally, I can only make sense of it as some sort of warped psychology in which guilt about one’s good fortune — or doubt about the reason’s for one’s success — makes one desperate to believe that those who have experienced bad fortune are unworthy of assistance or consideration.

  202. Mitch
    February 8, 2011 at 5:28 pm | #202

    When, oh when, will they handle apostrophes in spell-check?

  203. treesnstuff
    February 8, 2011 at 9:24 pm | #203

    Why would anyone believe what Caltrans says? Caltrans is a faceless, bureaucratic, circle jerk, CYA factory. EPIC is staffed by a small collection of locals from the Humboldt community. So, we’re now at the point where poorly run state agencies who we all know need to obtain funding and spend it on projects in a non-stop cycle are more believable than the people who are our neighbors? The Humboldt County I thought I knew would tell Caltrans to go jump in a lake and side with their community in a situation like this. What’s next, siding with CDF over destructive timber harvest plans, riding Green Diamond’s jock for clearcutting our forests, praising Rollin Richmond for screwing up our university? Geez, get a grip people.

  204. Anonymous
    February 8, 2011 at 9:34 pm | #204

    Umm, maybe because CalTrans is legally bound to their plan, so you should familiarize yourself with it so that you can hold its feet to the fire. Instead, you’re sitting in a drum circle, shouting through a bull horn, locking yourself in metal sleeves in office buildings and vocalizing your fantasy conspiracy theories, fiercely embracing a world of ignorance. Hey, great, spout this stuff in the court room. It will expedite things.

    Stick a fork in it. This turkey is done.

  205. Bolithio
    February 8, 2011 at 9:44 pm | #205

    Prairie Creek will never be logged no matter who is governor. Destroying an irreplaceable treasure to fund a budget deficit is insane.

    No logging in Fern Canyon? Rockefeller Grove? lol

    Seriously, this is a good point to point out how close minded our ‘system’ has become. You hear the regulation/de-regulation talking points. These bits are always black and white. Log a state park turns into destroy forests.

    Fact; our state park system has at minimum 10s of thousands of previously logged young to mid-mature timberlands (2nd 3rd growth). In our area, there has been substantial acreages added in the last decade – mainly through Save the Redwoods and such.

    What are they doing with these lands? Where are the trails? The camp grounds? What about all of those old logging roads and on-going sediment sources?

    Protecting our State treasures, such as Prairie Creek and Founders Grove, is a no-brainier. Its also a given that these areas will be ‘managed’ in a way to minimize tourist impact, and to maintain the existing habitat (what ever that is). You could extrapolate this to; other lands acquired not of this significant quality should be driven towards the same goal – old growth that is. However, just walking away from all that land is inadequate. Id even call it a violation to the public trust – when you consider closing parks, existing sediment sources, high fire risks near rural populations, etc…

    The entire State Park system could be entirely funded by a respectable commercial timber harvest. Siviculturaly the harvests are designed to reduce fire risk and/or promote the ultimate goal of late-successionial habitat (old growth) – depending on where the need was greater. While simultaneously mitigating past impacts that would otherwise continue to impair our watersheds.

    This is the practical, science based approach to natural resource governance that could lead to innovations in bureaucracy. The problem? Organizations like EPIC would undoubtedly mis-inform the public regarding these issues and eliminate their potential.

  206. treesnstuff
    February 8, 2011 at 10:49 pm | #206

    i’m curious bolithio, which organizations offer truthful information and which ones misinform? we already know that from your perspective epic misinforms. how about sierra club, center for biological diversity, nrdc, wwf, ks-wild, the wilderness society, save the redwoods league or earth first? are they all liars too? who gives correct information? we already know that from your perspective caltrans does not misinform and gives truthful information. how about california dept of fish and game, cdf, california state parks, the uc board of regents? i suppose they are the truth tellers who do not misinform, yes?

    and, as far as logging the state parks, do you not know that there is a shit ton of logging in national and state forests already? there have been whole books written about it. the big coup is that the feds don’t even break even on their shit ton of logging because it’s all a ruse to make their big timber buddies a lot of money. so, in actuality, if your ingenious state parks logging plan went into effect it would end up a big give away for the timber industry and nothing else. you’re not a pr flak for weyerhauser or green diamond or simpson, are you?

  207. February 8, 2011 at 11:02 pm | #207

    Save Richardson Grove! Defend the Redwood Curtain!

    An illegal highway project for a two mile section of Redwood Highway 101 proposes to remove 54 trees as well as cut, fill, compact and/or pave over the roots of 66 Redwoods 3 to 18 feet diameter! The proposed project activity is scheduled to begin in February 2011 through November 2012. Please visit coalition supporters below. Peaceful direct action works! Email rgroveactionnow@gmail.com for non-violence and direct action training info.

  208. Bolithio
    February 9, 2011 at 7:01 am | #208

    you’re not a pr flak for weyerhauser or green diamond or simpson, are you?

    Thats it! I would have gotten away with it too if it wasn’t for you pesky bloggers!

    I cant give you a blow by blow on all of those groups. But some of them use spin to advance their agenda. Anyone with a education in enviornmental science will recognize which is which. But Im not sure about the generic public.

    Ive worked personally with Save the Redwoods and I thought they were a great organization. They certainly put their money where their mouth is.

  209. Owltotem
    February 9, 2011 at 7:05 am | #209

    Here here Bo

  210. Ticklsme
    February 9, 2011 at 8:36 am | #210

    I find it interesting that some people are too ashamed of their comments to put a name other than anonymous. If you have an opinion you are proud of then you should be proud enough to put your name on it.

  211. Abraham Lincoln
    February 9, 2011 at 8:45 am | #211

    I agree with Ticklsme. People should sign their name to their posts if they’re proud of what they’re saying.

    Wait… Ticklsme? Practice what you preach, next time.

  212. Plain Jane
    February 9, 2011 at 8:52 am | #212

    8:45 is another person who doesn’t know the difference between using a pseudonym and “Anonymous.” While a pseudonym isn’t your name, it at least allows people to evaluate the total content of your posts and judge your veracity. “Anonymous” does not.

  213. Ticklsme is funny
    February 9, 2011 at 8:55 am | #213

    He could be funny on purpose but I don’t think he gets the joke.

  214. Ross Rowley
    February 9, 2011 at 9:47 am | #214

    To quote Slim Pickens in Blazing Saddles, “God darnit Mr. Not A Native, you use your tongue prettier than a twenty dollar whore.”

    NAN, point well taken. I’ll tuck my tail now between my legs and limp over to Ernie’s Place where we can lament about kicking Hippies asses and raisin’ Hell.

    Honestly, this discourse on cultural, environmental and economic ideologies found here on the Northcoast is quite refreshing with you. Your comments are a welcome change from the mean spirited tit-for-tat that has become the order of the day with modern-era participatory communication mediums. Hence, my goading you into intercourse over the years. I just wish you had the gall-darned gumption and bravado of a Husqvarna-toting bullbucker on payday to use your real name instead of parlaying from the shadows of anonymity.

    Don’t you think progress for the future of the county might occur if blog commentators shared open round-table discussion here on the blogs and we took a bit of information from all sides as we proceeded instead of descending into clandestine cheerleader catfights?

    But then, who would bother reading.

  215. Ticklsme
    February 9, 2011 at 10:02 am | #215

    I was born and raised here in Eureka. I am all for the Cal Trans project of straightening and widening our highway. It will make is safer and allow more affordable product to be brought to us in the Far North of California. As a young child I remember seeing large homes moved down the streets of Eureka past my school to make way for a freeway to be constructed for better traffic flow. Narrow minded people stopped that and now apprx 30 years later it takes me roughly 30 minutes to traverse Eureka from Fields Landing to Target, one way. Making even a quick run to get a a few things at least an hour and half to two hour trip. Not quick and easy when that is only apprx a 7 mile trip one way. Please stop holding me and my family hostage to this idea that everyone wants Humboldt not to grow and prosper. I don’t want to see my children have to move from this community in order to make an honest, prosperous living. Please consider other peoples ideas and feelings, even when they may disagree with yours. Again my vote is for progress not stagnation here in Humboldt County.

  216. February 9, 2011 at 11:53 am | #216

    Bickering about the effects of this project are moot when tackling this subject with the a no compromise ideaology. “This is about drawing a line in the sand dude”. No Compromise on Native Forests. We could put our cases against scientific rationalism aside/against the ideas of ‘progress’/against the short-term effects of economic upturn and jobs…because there is a unifying idea that is more powerful than any scientific source/statistical economic analysis or proposed development…NO COMPROMISE! Foolish folks deem this ignorant of ‘scientific facts’ or a pipe dream of radical ideaology -well there is science on both sides, science can not determine the course of human will, nor should it. Science is the tool that helps us understand the world and minimize (or downplay) the bad effects of an experiment, but it does not lay a hand on a NO COMPROMISE ideaology. It IS THE LINE! It is degrading to assume, in the EPD’s case and the T-S case and CalTrans case, that citizens against this project and not informed. Of course everyone is not informed as they could be, in all things, on both sides, this is a fundamental battle of ideology (like all battles really). How any citizen would further choose destruction of creativity is beyond me on a fundamental level. Jobs and economies are frivolous things, faulty parts of a capitalist syten made to perish and be reborn again…WELL LET IT DIE BEFORE TAKING ANY MORE STEPS THROUGH THE REDWOOD CURTAIN! Let the rest of the state, the nation, the world deal in uniformity and coercion by bureaucracies and governing bodies whose aim is to push through instead of sit back and observe. I know the people heading up the Richardson Grove project, they are good people with families who they want to support and provide for future generations – people are optimistic and full of integrity at their core – but they are muddled with the irrationality of progress…it is a fundamental hypocrisy of emotion and physical representation. As “TICKLSME” points out the complex of a citizenry fixated on creating “progress not stagnation” and using economic language to fix a problem that is societal, it is beyond economy and development. If the fundamental argument for the plan rests on people not being able to commute fast enough (from Fields Landing to target of all places one needs to get to quickly, not a hospital, etc.), or get trifled with the idea of building an ‘honest and prosperous living’ , then that foundation is a fallacy. Those elements of a constructive life have nothing to do with this project, that has to do with making daily decision that will be present no matter if the highway is widened or not – and in that perspective is compromise which will do one justice or make their life easier.
    No Compromise, means listening intently to all possibility but acting justly out of principal. It means being fulfilled with the knowledge of possibility and projecting the resolute strength of an animal who is tired of being dissuaded by language which was conceived to manipulate them. No Compromise is the destruction of manipulation in the face of extreme danger in dire circumstances. I feel all people have the will of No Compromise within them, perhaps everyone just needs to take a walk in the forest and remember where we all came from. How we’ve come to blogosphere (myself included) ranting and raving about misinformation on both sides, I know not, it has always been simpler to project apathy then realize how one truly feels passionately.
    I filmed the entire rally at Cal Trans on Feb. 7…who is to blame for escalation of violence? Demonstrators put themselves in harms way knowing they would be inflicted with pain and manipulation. Police knew they too would inflict said pain when the time came, no matter how peaceful the protest was…their reaction is that of a procedural machine, only the act of the officers quitting their job there on the spot would have prevented violence (because when it comes down to it, it’s their decision to follow cain of command or join the people). Their existence is to be violent…if the demonstrators would have been violent by any means, they would have received the same reaction (although with more injuries assumed). It makes a case FOR more physical protests in that the effect would be the same no matter what the cause. Procedural violence is the new template for the oppression of civil disobedience.

    to layout truths/untruths about the event as documented:
    -cold coffee was thrown into an officer’s face after he repeated pushed a demonstrator who was attempting to comply, there was no mug, so no ‘mug’was thrown
    -no officer was kicked, although the front doors of caltrans certainly were
    -officers used batons to force people back after mere seconds of ordering a disband of assembly and tasers were used to subdue the small crowd, effectively ‘tasing’ two known people who have documented their injuries
    -also, the procedural violence which is used to subdue locked down protestors is brutal in nature. Even though the police know that they would ultimately use the saw to get the steel restraints off of demonstrators, they chose to use violent tactics instead of getting the situation “over with”…demonstrators recognize this process too I am sure, which makes one wonder what we are to do about frivolous procedural violence that only acts to harm already vulnerable and submissive peoples.

    …I was there to protect both sides by recording, there were flaws in the demonstrators responses and even more by police. It was a victory for the Richardson Grove action movement because all actions set forth were accomplished (even with the brutality). Things happen in the heat of passion, I just wish that heat would rise to all people in this area. Get up and out of your house, from both sides of this argument, as Martin Luther King would agree, “we need to face the ugliness at the core of injustice”. We all need to meet each other face to face and not let business or bureaucratic entities determine the future of our home. I hope to see you all on the streets.

  217. Anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 12:03 pm | #217

    Whatever helps you sleep at night, guy. The overwhelming majority of the Humboldt population either doesn’t care, or wants the benefits this widening will bring. The fact that activists from the Bay Area had to be brought up here is very telling. Small showing for a small idea.

  218. Anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 12:16 pm | #218

    Get a life Shordhum. You don’t want to compromise? Good. Then you lose everything because you wackos are a tiny, tiny, tiny minority.

  219. February 9, 2011 at 12:41 pm | #219

    Chris Shordhum says: We all need to meet each other face to face and not let business or bureaucratic entities determine the future of our home. I hope to see you all on the streets.

    That would mean that these people recognize your legitimate right to exist; to speak and be heard same as them and THEY DO NOT. As far as their concerned your no better, maybe even worse, than all of those demonstrators in Egypt demanding their human rights; substandard, non-human subjects. Until you correct that problem, you waste your time trying to talk to anyone.

  220. Anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 1:17 pm | #220

    Many of us simply do not see a problem. We can’t come and demonstrate and “show our will” for something we already agree with, plus we are at work.

    We have seen the information, and it seems to make sense. Not many trees are going to be cut, it will widen the road slightly and make it possible for safer travel for trucks and buses, and I feel it is a good project.

    There are a lot of me around here it seems.

  221. Bolithio
    February 9, 2011 at 3:08 pm | #221

    Most of us are not looking for conflict. EPIC preys on a group of people who have nothing to do and are looking for conflict to fuel their ground game. If they can incite enough people into action with their campaign slogans, they figure they will get a steady donation stream from people elsewhere who dont really know what going on beyond some sound bite/news story. Activists with signs saying protect something (even if it isn’t really at risk).

    If the activists just want to be heard, they wouldn’t (or shouldn’t) cause so much disruption. Its back-firing on their movement. The 12 who got arrested are behaving as if they are going to cut all the trees down in the park! (Which if read epic’s blog, many commenters on the blog believe). If that was the case, Id consider attending the protest.

  222. February 9, 2011 at 3:09 pm | #222

    Check out the new Access Humboldt video:
    http://www.archive.org/details/AH-Richardson_Grove_Protest
    Make your own judgments, but I would say it’s obvious that the Times-Standard got it wrong. The cops were reckless, abusive and violent to those locked down, which in effect escalated the whole situation.

  223. Curley
    February 9, 2011 at 3:23 pm | #223

    Reading many of these post makes me realize that there’s a mentality that if it’s a very emotional subject it’s ok to lie or at least greatly misstate the truth. That regardless of the facts there is no compromise. That in itself will choke any thoughtful dialogue and marginalize the environmental community when it comes to future issues much bigger than the RG thing. In the long run-a poor strategy.

  224. Anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 6:49 pm | #224

    Reading these posts, watching the video is very depressing. Thankfully these protestors are but a very few but still it is scary to see people so dumb.

    What I saw in the video were the cops being very polite but firm. No tasers, no pain holds. Just steady pushing the protestors out the door and off the steps. The yelling, the profanities were all acting by childish protestors.

  225. Steak n Eggs
    February 9, 2011 at 7:30 pm | #225

    Well said Curly

  226. Another anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 7:42 pm | #226

    After watching the video I feel compelled to recognize the professionalism of the police. Good job EPD in a difficult situation. The senior cool headed officers showed their value as leaders. Really better then some confrontations in the past.

  227. Bolithio
    February 9, 2011 at 8:39 pm | #227

    Protesters appeared pretty cool with the exception of the people who chained themselves up. I bet 90% of the people who went to the rally intended to go, let Caltrans know how they felt about it, and leave.

    The biggest disconnect is that it appears many of the protesters dont have much empathy for people who work at caltrans. It is very unlikely the decision to straiten the 101 was made in Eureka, or that any of the people who spearheaded this actually where in that building. The vast majority of people who work there are doing a diverse array of tasks – RG being a small portion of what is happening there any given day. Those people are not on an opposing team. They are mapping the miles and miles of roads up here, addressing work orders, complying with that state regulations etc… SO when the activists show up and glare at the generic people who work there, it just doesn’t seem right. Its a flawed strategy.

    The court house lawn would have been more appropriate – and would have yielded more exposure for their cause. The dude who calculates culvert sizes, or the gal who writes botany reports have no control over the implementation of this project. There is no one to reach there.

  228. anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 9:06 pm | #228

    Ticklsme 10:02 – 30 minutes from fields landing Target. Were you walking?

  229. Anonymous
    February 9, 2011 at 9:21 pm | #229

    When Rage walks in the door, Reason flies out the window.

  230. Ticklsme
    February 10, 2011 at 9:27 am | #230

    To Anonymous: No, I was not walking the length of town. Try more like middle of the day, spring through autumn.
    I also didn’t have to get to Target. It was an example of how a planned, approved, and begun project was not allowed to happen here about 30 years ago and how that decision affects the people living in this community now. I am saying it would be nice to have an expressway through town like had been planned and approved. If we let the opportunity of straightening and widening Hwy 101 pass us by now, those affects will be felt long into the future. It will slow our economy and job growth more than we need it or want it too.

    This is America and I am still allowed to have my opinion and views of situations.

  231. February 10, 2011 at 11:24 am | #231

    “Jobs and economies are frivolous things(,)” Hardly.

  232. pete
    February 10, 2011 at 1:48 pm | #232

    There is a very good letter in the times standard MY WORD today. I would have posted this on the TS blog but I am not a Face Book member. And the way TS edits posts it may have been futile.

  233. skippy
    February 10, 2011 at 2:25 pm | #233

    The North Coast Journal article, recent update, and readers comments by Ryan Burns, “Video of the Richardson Grove Protest,” can be found here.

  234. skippy
    February 10, 2011 at 2:30 pm | #234

    Oops, sorry. Try here.

  235. Richard
    February 10, 2011 at 4:37 pm | #235

    Here’s the My Word:

    Opposition to the Richardson Grove project has much diversity

    Barbara Kennedy/For the Times-Standard
    Posted: 02/10/2011 01:27:27 AM PST

    I am a member of a group that calls itself the “Save Richardson Grove Coalition.” The opinions I am expressing are mine alone. Members of the Save Richardson Grove Coalition have been active since Caltrans announced the project in September 2007.
    We have written My Word pieces, Letters to the Editor, met with representatives of our elected officials, held forums, delivered petitions, sent thousands of comment cards, and appealed to our supervisors for a place on the Board Agenda to no avail.

    Citing violations of CEQA and NEPA, three organizations seeing validity in our concerns, EPIC (Environmental Protection Information Center), CATS (Californians Against Toxics) and the Center for Biological Diversity, have filed litigation in both federal and state courts on biological, economic and social grounds.

    Perhaps due to the advocacy of the project by our elected officials and inadequate media coverage dismissive of our concerns while unquestioningly accepting the Caltrans spin, other groups seeking to heighten public awareness have taken a different approach. Those folks attending the rally itself spanned all ages and diverse segments of our community and were clearly concerned about the effects of the project.

    What has been lost in the latest round of media coverage, as has been the case all along, is the fact that this project cannot be justified on any grounds whether practical, economic or moral.

    The project is unnecessary because STAA size trucks currently pass through the grove day and night. No accidents caused by “off-tracking” have occurred or have been documented. Safety is not a factor — the safety of bicyclists and pedestrians is being totally ignored.

    Richardson Grove is a state park belonging to all the people of California and is dedicated to the protection of the old growth redwood trees therein — their protection should be the paramount interest.

    Economic benefits to local businesses and consumers are unproven and dubious at best. The cost of the project at $10 million is morally repugnant in this time of cutbacks to education and social services.

    The cumulative impacts of traffic congestion and urban sprawl are ignored and ultimately our focus should be on sustainability and looking for new solutions to our transportation issues. Continued dependency on diesel trucking is clearly unsustainable, making the project entirely unjustified.

    Barbara Kennedy resides in Weott.

    http://www.times-standard.com/guest_opinion/ci_17348602

  236. pete
    February 10, 2011 at 5:56 pm | #236

    Thank You Richard.

  237. Xandra Manns
    February 10, 2011 at 10:49 pm | #237

    After the demonstration at CALTRANS I called Kim Floyd and asked why CALTRANS is proceeding with the project when litigation is pending. So far I have not received a response. I think that proceeding while litigation is pending is an act of aggression. Instead the people who peacefully protest are labeled violent.

  238. Anonymous
    February 10, 2011 at 11:39 pm | #238

    The people who protested by invading the Cal-Trans office and refusing to leave at 5 :00 p. m. did their very best to provoke a violent police reaction, Xandra.

  239. Curley
    February 11, 2011 at 12:22 pm | #239

    I respectfully disagree Xandra. Proceeding while litigation pending is not aggression. If an injunction was issued however, that would be another matter. That’s not the case here though. And the actions of the protesters were not entirely peaceful. Things were thrown on police and kicking and other physically aggressive things happened. Lawful orders were disobeyed and arrests were made. Acting in such a manner and then whining about being a victim when the predictable legal police reaction occurs is disingenuous. If you’re going to get yourself arrested at least be proud of that. You worked hard to get arrested- enjoy your status with your fellow protestors.

  240. treesnstuff
    February 11, 2011 at 5:14 pm | #240

    you’re right curley, proceeding with litigation pending isn’t aggressive, it’s just a smart way to get what you want. that way, if caltrans is told to stop by a judge or other authority, they can say: “look, we already started working on the project, it would cost us tons of money to stop now!” the usda and monsanto are using the exact same tactic to plant GMO sugar beets. also, why are folks so concerned that a couple of protesters spit at a cop or threw a sign at him? police physically abuse people everyday in our state, and we’re supposed to shed tears over some spittle and a metal sign?

  241. tra
    February 11, 2011 at 5:54 pm | #241

    …why are folks so concerned that a couple of protesters spit at a cop or threw a sign at him? police physically abuse people everyday in our state, and we’re supposed to shed tears over some spittle and a metal sign?

    Spitting and throwing objects at the cops was wrong, unjustified, and of course counterproductive to the protesters.

    But from what I can gather, it sounds like those acts of violence were committed by only one or two people. The rest of the protesters should not be judged by the acts of one or two wing-nuts.

  242. Anonymous
    February 11, 2011 at 6:40 pm | #242

    I am thankful that there are protesters to bring the destructive practices of CalTrans to light. I once went to non violence training and remember that we are not to strike out against anyone. This is unfortunate that someone spit on a policeman. The are just doing their job, a difficult job. Remember that the cops may be in agreement with you protesters. It is CalTrans that is the opposition.

  243. Anonymous
    February 11, 2011 at 6:46 pm | #243

    I went to non violence training many years ago. But now if someone spit in my face I would probably knock the shit out of them.

  244. Farmer
    February 11, 2011 at 8:01 pm | #244

    Gee, Bolithio knows so much about the inner workings and even secret thoughts of the mysterious “EPIC” cabal. Speculation? Never.

  245. treesnstuff
    February 11, 2011 at 9:14 pm | #245

    while it was wrong for protestors to spit on an officer and throw a sign at another, it’s hardly the end of the world. i would not personally do that nor would i encourage such behavior. but, really, it’s not worth making such a big deal out of it. often when there is a protest, the protestors will behave inappropriately toward law enforcement. the actions of a few do not necessarily negate the issue being protested or the protest as a whole. how you view protests in general is essentially shaped by your perspective on life. folks who are more authoritarian and logical and see the world in black and white will always be against protestors. people who are more emotional and egalitarian will likely support the protestors or at least concede they have a point and should be allowed to exercise their constitutional rights. here’s an interesting article on a UC Berkeley study that documents the phenomenon: http://newscenter.berkeley.edu/2010/11/16/globalwarming_messaging/

  246. Anonymous
    February 12, 2011 at 7:04 pm | #246

    Thank you protesters for drawing attention to CalTrans planned destruction of more land. I am glad that there are people willing stand up to this bureaucratic monster.

  247. pete
    February 12, 2011 at 7:58 pm | #247

    Another good letter in todays Times Standard MY WORD. The writer is Stan Binnie.

  248. pete
    February 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm | #248

    The letter was in the paper but not on line. Hopefully it will be up tomorrow.

  249. Plain Jane
    February 12, 2011 at 9:58 pm | #249

    Here it is Pete.

    link

  250. pete
    February 12, 2011 at 10:06 pm | #250

    Thank you Plain Jane.

  251. Plain Jane
    February 12, 2011 at 10:09 pm | #251

    de nada, Pete.

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