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North Coast energy hogs

The Santa Rosa Press Democrat looks at a recent study by UC Berkeley scientist Evan Mills on indoor pot’s energy usage:

In Humboldt County, average household electricity use last year was 26 percent greater than PG&E’s systemwide average. In Lake County, average use was 29 percent higher and in Mendocino County it was 41 percent higher, according to PG&E.

Sonoma County’s average household consumption was less than 1 percent higher than the PG&E system average.

Download Mills’ report: Energy Up in Smoke — The Carbon Footprint of Indoor Cannabis Production

  1. April 29, 2011 at 12:43 am

    I’ve always found it odd when people go to restaurants and order a high fat meal, but get a diet soda because, “they’re trying to loose weight.”

    Such a scenario is not much different from the pot grower who thinks they’re ecologically conscious because they buy Seventh Generation toilet paper or listen to music that “speaks truth to power.”

  2. Ponder z
    April 29, 2011 at 5:39 am

    And the Eel River is full of algae every summer because of high nitrogen runoff form gardens in SOhum. Also that high power use is quite often payed for under low income subsidies mandated by government and passed on to the regular customers. If you can show poverty level income you qualify (PGE doesn’t look at cash on hand)

  3. April 29, 2011 at 6:00 am

    Sounds to me like me need a local energy utility. Why should PGE make all of the profit?

  4. April 29, 2011 at 6:34 am

    I do love the diet soda bit. To me, diet soda is like a condom with a hole in it — utterly useless. As for environmentally-friendly pot growers, well, I just don’t see it. Profit still rules the roost there, and profit and conservation don’t really see eye-to-eye.

  5. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 29, 2011 at 6:51 am

    Energy Use is Great and wonderful depending upon who says it.

    Is it green produced energy versus black gold, Texas Tea energy. Is it nuclear (nucular – Bush) versus Texas Tea. Is it wave motions versus lunar cycles.

    Yep, the real complaint is not about growing weed; rather, it is how the energy being consumed IS PRODUCED. Now, the argumnent is most efficient uses of energy. right? Then, when energy is cleanly produced, there can’t be any more argumnets, but not for religion and power groups…….

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  6. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 29, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Deric,

    You actually JUST DISSED all gardeners!!!

    JL

  7. Decline To State
    April 29, 2011 at 7:06 am

    With those sorts of increases and subsequent profits I should think PG&E would be actively encouraging indoor “medicine” growing.

    And you can just shut up you food elitists. I drink diet soda. One makes cuts where they can. I also use low energy light bulbs but have a 20 year old refrigerator. Still striving for perfection…not at all sure I’ll make it.

  8. Mitch
    April 29, 2011 at 7:30 am

    A can of Coke has 140 calories and no nutrition.

    Diet sodas exist because, for a long time, nobody realized you could make money bottling and marketing water.

    Drinking tap water instead of two daily cans of Coke is the difference between losing weight and gaining weight. And the $700 annual savings ain’t bad.

  9. Plain Jane
    April 29, 2011 at 7:48 am

    One diet coke (0 calories) a day versus regular coke (140 calories) is a yearly calorie difference of over 50,000. That equals approx 15 lbs. a year. Still think its funny? Drinking water instead of either would save hundreds of dollars and be healthier.

  10. Dancing
    April 29, 2011 at 7:56 am

    Way to deflect, Potheads.

  11. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 7:59 am

    Energy pigs and tax cheats. And the standard whiners here talk about sodas. Typical.

  12. Big Al
    April 29, 2011 at 7:59 am

    make it legal if you run the lights with a peddle powered generators, we would have the healthiest hippies anywhere!

  13. Big Al
    April 29, 2011 at 8:01 am

    oops thats pedal, peddle your pedal powered plants post picking

  14. April 29, 2011 at 8:55 am

    I think lots of people – not just in Arcata and Humboldt – but around the United States have turned to growing indoor pot as a means of economic survival in very difficult economic times. It is American ingenuity, entreprenuerism and cottage industry rolled into one. Buy local!

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  15. Random Guy
    April 29, 2011 at 9:00 am

    So what.

  16. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 9:12 am

    Yeah, so what if many thousands of tons of CO2 are needlessly added to the atmosphere, contributing to Global Warming. After all, there are much more pressing environmental issues, such as the removal of a few dozen small trees at Richardson Grove.

  17. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 9:20 am

    Being diabetic I consume a couple of Pepsi Max each week instead of the usual black coffee or tap water. So you critics of diet soda’s can think what you will and I will continue to stay healthy as I can.

  18. 69er
    April 29, 2011 at 9:23 am

    The 9:20 comment was mine don’t know what happened here???

  19. Random Guy
    April 29, 2011 at 9:24 am

    “Yeah, so what”

    Right on, brutha. Some folks lack some perspective ’round here.

  20. Random Guy
    April 29, 2011 at 9:33 am

    http://i54.tinypic.com/155o0o2.jpg

    The basis of this bullshit. I guess if somebody doesn’t know anything about it, and completely lacks perspective, they might jump on this bullshit bandwagon.

    Meanwhile, back in the jungle…

    http://sarahpalintruthsquad.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/air-pollution-smog-over-los-angeles.jpg

    http://archives.starbulletin.com/2007/01/07/business/artbrill.jpg

    http://www.chicagonow.com/blogs/dennis-byrne-barbershop/assets_c/2010/01/smog-thumb-550×242-54103.jpg

    etc.

    …but please, continue your conversation about humboldt’s big bad pot growers.

  21. dunce with me
    April 29, 2011 at 9:38 am

    And some folks like to talk to themselves around here too. But they have perspective, they are full of it in fact.

  22. Random Guy
    April 29, 2011 at 9:39 am

    Thanks for reading, dunce! my comment is still awaiting moderation…it’s not moderate enough.

  23. Teacher
    April 29, 2011 at 9:52 am

    I’m just happy that the general consenus on this blog seems to be that the growers aren’t the groovy environmentalist hippies they try to portray themselves as. They, like big oil and big bussiness in general, are trying to make as much money as they can with little to no regard for the environment.
    There are other ways to make money locally aside from growing a plant inside a house using massive amounts of electricity that pollutes our earth. The problem is, people will be making less money and working more if they stop growing so greed keeps them growing. I don’t mean to bash growers but I’m just tired of the rasta tunes and hippy vibes coming from people whose actions in no way supports what they say.

  24. Sharon Letts
    April 29, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Cali pays more for electricity, second is Colorado. Electric usage charts: EIA.doe.gov/electricity.
    Nothing natural about indoor growing. Supply and demand, need to subsidize in low-income-land. Wrong, but necessary. People don’t change until they have to.
    Diet soda? Blogs, ugh.

  25. tra
    April 29, 2011 at 9:57 am

    And there is a much better way to grow ganja, aside from “growing it inside a house using massive amounts of electricity that pollutes our earth.” It’s called sun and soil.

  26. Random Guy
    April 29, 2011 at 10:00 am

    “I don’t mean to bash growers but”

    …but you will anyway, with sweeping stereotypes and obviously no personal references at that.

    “I don’t mean to bash growers but I’m just tired of the rasta tunes and hippy vibes coming from people whose actions in no way supports what they say.”

    Well that covers just about everybody and their choice of music and their good vibes. I feel sorry for you, the people you must hang out with. They go around unpretentiously fucking up the environment instead? Let’s audit eachother’s lifestyles for the rest of the thread…

    I’m gonna happily bow out of this one, it’s one of those litmus tests. Anything for some blog traffic, ya? YA!

  27. April 29, 2011 at 10:05 am

    anon @ 9:12

    This energy is not being expended “needlessly” it is being expended to produce medicine. It is small scale capitalism at work. It is not illegal to use electricity to produce goods.

    Let’s talk about the real issue, moving away from carbon and nuclear and into solar, wind and non-fracking geothermal.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  28. April 29, 2011 at 10:08 am

    If you use the google for five minutes you have used enough energy and produced enough carbon to heat a tea kettle.

    How many google sessions are needless? Yes we need a law against google searches, at least the needless ones.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  29. Teacher
    April 29, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Random Guy, I appreciate the sympathy you feel for me. To clarify my point, I’m not speaking about the outdoor generational growers in SoHum and everywhere else. I’m talking about the transplants and the people simply trying to make easy money. Hanging in Arcata, I frequently see fairly young people driving giant trucks and spending lots of money. Some of these people are friends. I don’t think they are bad people. However, I think they are giant hypocrits when they talk about how bad capitalism is, how greedy corporations are, and how screwed up the environment is.
    At some point, your actions speak to who you are. If you drive a giant polluting truck, use massive amounts of energy to grow a plant inside, avoid paying taxes, get subsidized by PG&E, etc., then you need to realize that you are simply taking advantage of a system for you own personal gain. I’m not saying they’re wrong, I’m just saying don’t bitch and moan when the corporations do it and don’t tell me you are a socialist/environmentalist/hippy. You are making money and trying to live as comfortably as possible with little consideration for anything else. Just say it like it is.

  30. April 29, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Teacher,

    Do you like those nice grapes from Chile in January or those nice tomatoes from southern Mexico?

    When fuel becomes a little more expensive and flying in fresh produce from 5,000 miles away is prohibitive and the co-op is selling you nice indoor grown veggies will you buy them?

    I think you will buy them and I don’t think the carbon footprint of indoor grown veggies will bother you.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  31. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 10:31 am

    Highboltage, you are so funny! MEDICINE? Yes, about 5% of it is used for valid medicine. What about the energy drain from the other 95% of pot used for recreation?

  32. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 10:32 am

    TEACHER- well said!!

  33. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 10:35 am

    I will go ahead and bash growers. They suck. From me, you, the energy sources, the government, the taxpayers, the residents and neighbors who have to put up with them ruining their neighborhoods, and of course those who are worried about their safety. I appreciate those very few who responsibly grow medicine, but they are quite rare.

  34. April 29, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Energy use

    Energy is a static quantity and is denoted in joules. Power is a measure of energy transfer over time, and is denoted in watts (joules per second). The three levels of the Kardashev Scale can be quantified in units of power (watts) and plotted on an increasing logarithmic scale.

    Type I — a civilization that is able to harness all of the power available on a single planet — has approximately 1016 or 1017 W available.[3] Earth specifically has an available power of 1.74 ×1017 W (174 peta watts, see Earth’s energy budget). Kardashev’s original definition was 4 ×1012 W — a “technological level close to the level presently attained on earth” (“presently” meaning 1964).[4]
    Type II — a civilization that is able to harness all of the power available from a single star, approximately 4 ×1026 W.[3] Again, this figure is variable; the Sun outputs approximately 3.86 ×1026 W. Kardashev’s original definition was also 4 ×1026 W.[4]
    Type III — a civilization that is able to harness all of the power available from a single galaxy, approximately 4 ×1037 W.[3] This figure is extremely variable, since galaxies vary widely in size; the stated figure is the approximate power output of the Milky Way. Kardashev’s original definition was also 4 ×1037 W.[4]

    Using nuclear explosion tests as a perspective, Tsar Bomba, the largest nuclear weapon ever detonated, released an estimated 57 megaton yield; a Type I civilization makes use of roughly 25 megatons of TNT equivalent a second, the equivalent of one Tsar Bomba every 2.3 seconds. A Type II civilization controls 4 × 109 times more energy (4 billion hydrogen bombs per second), and a Type III 1011 times more yet.

  35. Thirdeye
    April 29, 2011 at 10:43 am

    It’s OK, potheads. Never mind that the pot industry has turned into an environmental disaster. Just find a scapegoat and you’ll feel better.

  36. tra
    April 29, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Indoor growing of cannabis is an artifact of cannabis Prohibition. End Prohibition and most indoor growing will end. Problem solved.

    You’re welcome.

  37. Plain Jane
    April 29, 2011 at 10:54 am

    I agree, Teacher. However, pot growers who tried to pay their taxes are being sued by the IRS because they claimed the cost of making that money as deductions. Legalize it, allow reasonable deductions as business expenses and then tax them. Individual greed is nonpartisan; but institutional greed funds primarily the right and does the most damage to our country.

  38. April 29, 2011 at 10:54 am

    There are lots of generalizations being tossed around.

    If you take any profession you will find some who are motivated solely by greed and you will find others who are altruisticly motivated. For example, doctors and dentists. And of course you will find lots of doctors who are motivated to help people but who also think they should be “adequately” compensated.

    There is a lot of bashing of indoor growers here and if I were a grower in Arcata or Eureka I would think about getting organized.

    There seems to be an alliance between people who are completely anti pot with some large pot grower interests who are seeking to eliminate some (indoor) competition in a down market. That’s your “consensus.” No I am not talking about mom n pop growers in Sohum, much love to you.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  39. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 11:02 am

    Good thoughts, Bill and tra.

  40. Thirdeye
    April 29, 2011 at 11:02 am

    The prop 19 experience showed us that growers are willing to put up with prohibition and all its consequences because it increases their profits. The legal risks of prohibition are borne primarily by those who distribute and consume pot.

  41. Teacher
    April 29, 2011 at 11:04 am

    PJ and Tra, I agree with both you. PJ, I agree that the individual greed shown by growers is nothing compared to corporate greed in terms of the damage it does to our society. I simply wanted to point out that the mindset is the same. Get yours and don’t worry about the consequences. I don’t appreciate people who display that mindset playing the enviro/hippy card because I think they are hypocrits.
    Bill, I am pro pot. Legalize it. I’m anti giant truck, deisel generators, intact pitbulls, home invasions, etc.

  42. Thirdeye
    April 29, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Teacher – if you are anti intact pit bulls, are you in favor of dismembered pit bulls?

  43. April 29, 2011 at 11:15 am

    Teacher,

    Good I am for full legalization also. Just take all mention of cannabis out of the California PC. Agree.

    Are people using diesel generators to grow pot in Arcata/Eureka neighborhoods? No, that is a rural problem. I am just pointing out a conflation.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  44. Random Guy
    April 29, 2011 at 11:16 am

    shaddap and smokeabowl.

    http://tinyurl.com/3wgevph

  45. Arcatawikileaks
    April 29, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Sent: Thu, April 28, 2011 4:42:56 PM
    Subject: Re: Bat N’ Rouge…Save the Date!!!!!!!

    “fellow who bought the Eye”? What do you mean, Alex?

    ~Monica~

    On Thu, Apr 28, 2011 at 4:41 PM, Alex Stillman wrote:

    Have not gotten a call from the fellow who bought the Arcata Eye…party at my house.
    Alex

    alex stillman
    arcata city council
    po box 1194
    arcata, ca. 95518
    707-822-2269
    707-845-3900
    alexnacv@gmail.com

  46. Mo
    April 29, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    In light of the profound carbon footprint of indoor pot , The City of Eureka’s REQUIREMENT that dispensaries grow ALL medicine on-site, is unconscionable.

    Citizens of Eureka should complain NOW to their elected officials.

    All Humboldt County citizens should act now to see that such folly is not replicated in the County ordinance.

    http://humboldtherald.files.wordpress.com/2011/03/hga-draft-review.pdf

  47. Reinventing The Wheel
    April 29, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    Fascinating.

    Just as Mother Nature finally begins “batting last” with unprecedented extinction rates, resource depletion, contamination, and global warming….greedy individuals redouble efforts to deny their impacts, resist change, and blame others…taken directly from the extraction industry playbook.

    In the absence of water-capacity research and effective low-impact ordinances, no reasonable person can conclude that our “rural lifestyles” won’t end just as badly as nearly everywhere else on the planet…

    “The human species won’t survive unless we fundamentally change the way we think…” Einstein.

  48. April 29, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Animal Farm.

  49. RT
    April 29, 2011 at 1:48 pm

    Outdoor growers in many cases are not eco-friendly either. They suck water out of salmon and steelhead rearing streams as well as using excessive amounts of fertilizer and poisons. We ran across a grow last summer on State Park property in Mendo county where we had a fish restoration project going. These jerks were sucking the creek dry, had an open-pit latrine near the creek, plus were dumping garbage all over the place. They also dammed several smaller creeks and were dumping fertilizer directly into the creeks behind the dams. I have to say they were persistant – the grow was CAMPed on in mid-July and when State Parks went back in mid-August to clean the site up, there were new plants in the ground!

  50. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Corporate greed is bad, but pot growers are no better. It’s a total cop out and they live in fear, and are willing to live that way, risking their reputation and families livelihood. Corporations are made of many people and boards who vote, and have to keep their bottom line healthy to keep their investors happy. They are difficult to control, whereas a pot grower has made his/her choices completely on his/her own.

  51. hoobedoobe
    April 29, 2011 at 2:58 pm

    Kevin sold the EYE?! say its true!!!

  52. Random Guy
  53. Mr. Nice
    April 29, 2011 at 6:42 pm

    Problem is most indoor growers suck at growing. Money trees are the only thing these folks ever tried to grow besides shrooms. They don’t run CO2 so they lamps are inefficient as fuck. They don’t seal shit. They grow big ass larf trees instead of using horizontal space. They get 1/8th gram of Bobby Brown per watt instead of more than one gram of dank.

    Pot consumers slightly make up for this shit by loving the dark, not driving far, being cheap as hell (got to save eighth money), redeeming all their recycling, and having their product of choice minimally packaged in a 1.1 gram sandwich bag.

    Y’all say soil, water and sun like we got unlimited soil and water. Indoor, hydro-chem factories use less fertilizer, produce far less runoff, and barely use shit for water compared to growing outside.

    The answer is obvious, y’all should all build convertible greenhouse/shadehouse hydro-chem factories. If you need to test the medicine to make sure it’s legit, send me a 5 gram sample every week and I’ll do up a pyrolytic assay.

  54. April 29, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    “They don’t run CO2 so they lamps are inefficient as fuck.”

    Both Arcata and Eureka have banned the use of CO2 in gardens.

    Yeah I know…….please don’t get me started….

  55. Mr. Nice
    April 29, 2011 at 8:14 pm

    Both Arcata and Eureka have banned the use of CO2 in gardens.

    Yeah I know…….please don’t get me started….

    Naw, naw I meant run CO2 like when folks get a tank for a kegerator but the tank has a slow leak so they slap in some tubes that happen to fall over some plants so as not to waste it because they didn’t know they had to close the valve all the way and thought they were supposed to buy a $200 pressure regulator. Then it just happened that they had big nugs that one time before they were about to replace the tank but never got around to doing that.

    Go on and get started.

  56. April 29, 2011 at 9:17 pm

    The city of Arcata and Eureka both ban the use of bottled CO2 in medical cannabis gardens. Try the “kegerator” logic and see how far that gets you…

  57. What Now
    April 29, 2011 at 9:20 pm

    “Anonymous says:
    April 29, 2011 at 10:31 am
    Highboltage, you are so funny! MEDICINE? Yes, about 5% of it is used for valid medicine. What about the energy drain from the other 95% of pot used for recreation?”
    Any scientific data to back up the numbers cited or are you just following HighlyFried’s strategy and blowing it out your ass?

  58. Anonymous
    April 29, 2011 at 11:05 pm

    I actually think it’s lower than that- 1% to 99%, but I am just blowing it out my ass.

  59. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 30, 2011 at 1:33 am

    CO2 answers lay within the resolve regarding human over-populations. Arguments on political issues can’t be proven justifiable when people are intentionally “hidden” from the solution and resolve. People can’t admit that people are the unilateral problem.

    JL

  60. April 30, 2011 at 7:11 am

    It is not ok to make up statistics.

    “Anonymous says:
    April 29, 2011 at 10:31 am
    Highboltage, you are so funny! MEDICINE? Yes, about 5% of it is used for valid medicine. What about the energy drain from the other 95% of pot used for recreation?”

  61. Walt
    April 30, 2011 at 7:36 am

    Any pot growers willing to share their books? Starting with “Seed cost. . .x” all the way to “product sold. . .y” and therefore “net profit. . .z”. I would guess there’s a WHOLE LOT of profit, since there are people willing to spend thousands on refitting grow houses and industries popping up everywhere to supply them.

  62. Anonymous
    April 30, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Mark, there are no real statistics on this. This is based on my own experience in Arcata. Most most most of the grows that have turned into drug busts are not for medicine, and of those, most most most have some phony, if not all phony 215s copied. Of my friends and acquaintances’ rental properties busted, I actually have never heard of a real 215 grow that turned into an arrest. I think the medicinal grows are such the minority. If anyone has real stats I would like to hear. That is why my original post says “about 5%”. I really think it is less than 1% though of grows are medical.

  63. Random Guy
    April 30, 2011 at 10:19 am

    If you’ve bashed “growers” in this and future threads, do everybody a favor and let it be known whether or not you even smoke marijuana yourself.

    Stress is the big killer. Laughter is the best medicine. Mind/body/spiritual contentment perpetuates. By right of human existence, limiting our options is criminal. The law is wrong, not the people who are breaking it.

    Go outside!

  64. tra
    April 30, 2011 at 10:20 am

    I don’t get it, 10:05 — how do you know how many people of the people who are using the cannabis grown at those locations are using it to relieve medical symptoms?

    Look, I don’t doubt that a lot of the cannabis being used by “recreational” users is grown under cover of 215s, but I have no idea what the actual percentages are…and I don’t see how you would know either.

    Whatever unsubstantiated number you throw out there, whether it’s 75%, 40%, 5% or 1% or whatever, it’s basically a guess . Well we can all take our guesses, but it’s hard to have a very meaningful discussion with “I guess it’s x%.” We’re all going to think our guesses are closer to the truth than other peoples’ guesses…but so what.

    By the way, there’s little doubt that full legalization would quickly bring an end to the energy-sucking, rental-market-distorting indoor commercial grows that are currently occupying so many of our residential rental units.

  65. Anonymous
    April 30, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Random person, yes, have smoked pot in the past, present and most likely will in the future but it isn’t a regular part of my routine. It make be a “wrong law” but it is a law.

    tra, I agree, legalization will solve many of these problems with pot grows. I wish it would happen sooner rather than later. The big money in pot has led to so much heartache for the rest of us who have properties damaged, neighborhoods impacted, and friends afraid for their safety.

  66. April 30, 2011 at 11:25 am

    “Recreational use” is one of the four main uses of the herb cannabis sativa. The other three are spiritual, medicinal and industrial.

    The People have an inherent right to the bounty of the Earth and have used herbs including cannabis for a hundred thousand years.

    These medicinal rights are ancient and predate any government.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  67. Anonymous
    April 30, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Dream on. Drugs and alcohol both have their roots in plants and herbs, and have been used medicinally as well as for the other reasons you mentioned. Laws supersede any imagined “rights”, whether you believe in them or not. The “People” capitalized or not, have the if the bounty of the earth included illegal substance, your “rights” will indeed get you in trouble, even if you believe they predate any government.

  68. April 30, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Well anon @ 1147 answer me this:

    Do you have a “right” to own property or can that be superseded by law?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  69. April 30, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Let me help you…..

    …the 1776 United States Declaration of Independence, famously condensed this to:

    “ “We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights…”

    So I assume we are on the same page…..that there are natural rights.

    You are just unsure whether or not someone’s use of a plant (that has been part of the human commons for thousands of years) is a natural right or not?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  70. April 30, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    The Declaration of Independence hold absolutely NO legal weight, other than to inform the King of England that we were leaving the monarchy.

  71. April 30, 2011 at 12:59 pm

    “Anonymous says:
    April 30, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Mark, there are no real statistics on this. This is based on my own experience in Arcata. Most most most of the grows that have turned into drug busts are not for medicine, and of those, most most most have some phony, if not all phony 215s copied. Of my friends and acquaintances’ rental properties busted, I actually have never heard of a real 215 grow that turned into an arrest. I think the medicinal grows are such the minority. If anyone has real stats I would like to hear. That is why my original post says “about 5%”. I really think it is less than 1% though of grows are medical”

    To throw out statistic that are made up makes you look stupid, just like the Republican Senator that claimed Planned Parenthood used 90% of its money for abortions, when the real number was 3%.

  72. April 30, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Mark, the argument that you are making is irrelevant as the rights being claimed are “inalienable” and cannot be bargained away by any social contract. They are superior to any law.

    BTW There are arguments for incorporating the Declaration into constitutional law but it is not a settled area.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  73. Anonymous
    April 30, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Bill, yes, I have rights to own property that are unfortunately able to be superseded by eminent domain situations, though I don’t like it.

    Mark, I called out stats that I have observed myself. I immediately fessed up that they were my own and not anyone else’s when asked. I should have said “100% of the grows I am have observed were for personal use, not medicine”. That might have been more acceptable. Instead I allowed for some wiggle room and gave 5% to medical grows, but I have not witnessed a valid one, only phony (photocopied 215s) medical grows.

  74. Not A Native
    April 30, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    My personal empirical observations also agree with anon 2:40. And to add, I personally know four people with chronic medical conditions that were diagnosed by traditional practicing doctors and who tell me pot helps them. They all say they buy their pot on the black market because they get it cheaper than legal.

  75. tra
    April 30, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Which is evidence that some of the the “illegal / balck market” cannabis is in fact used for medicinal purposes.

  76. Not A Native
    April 30, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    I didn’t see a reason to mention it, but three of the four ill people I know used pot fairly regularly for many years prior to acquiring medical conditions. One person used pot for a short while a long time before becoming ill.

  77. Reinventing The Wheel
    April 30, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    It will be abused like all pharmaceuticals, but with far less fatalities.

  78. Anonymous
    April 30, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Who stole my hydrocodone? I got it when my elbow got worked on and now my family seems to be borrowing it?

  79. Random Guy
    May 1, 2011 at 10:55 am

    10:21, that’s the first post to make me laugh on a political blog in awhile. Insane waste of time and money demonizing marijuana. Criminalizing the wrong people. If the real problem were a snake, half the population would be dead. Thing is there’s a snake in every other doctor’s, judge’s, police officer’s, lawyer’s, representative’s and senator’s medicine cabinet. Pharms became a real plague about ten years ago and it hasn’t died down at all. Started filling the youth scene in the late 90’s…pills were suddenly available everywhere. Nobody really talks about it. “Media” is sponsered by it.

    Fast forward to 3:45…

  80. Landlord
    May 1, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    I have considered trying a stimulant (ritalin, Adderol etc) for my child who struggles with AD/HD. Like Alzheimers, there is no definite diagnosis based on anything physical, but diagnosis occurs from judging the quantity and severity of symptoms based on the DSM (Diagnosis and Statistical Manual) lists set up by the American Psychiatric Association. Although we have been very against trying a drug, so many people have told me how much it either helped them, or helped their child discover that they can learn and can get their thoughts sorted out when they are “on” one of these drugs. A common comment “I thought I was going crazy- I thought I could not learn. Now I know I can find success”. I still don’t know whether to suggest trying the drug or not, but I do see how my child has struggled, and for so many years.

  81. Random Guy
    May 1, 2011 at 2:05 pm

    Landlord, have you considered throwing in your voice of support to stop the “improvement” project through Richardson Grove for the sake of a REAL public yay or nay?

    Hijack! You musta missed this question to you in another thread…

  82. Thirdeye
    May 1, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    RG and his fellow grovies are the best advertisement for going straight.

  83. Landlord
    May 1, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    I thought your question was “did I think there should be more public input?” or something similar, and I thought I answered that. So you wonder if I would support a vote? I would.

  84. Landlord
    May 1, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Going back, I see that your question was actually if the project should be halted to wait for more public input.
    Has the project even started? How much input has been given? I am all for public input and yes, I do support halting a project if people haven’t been given amply opportunity to weigh in. I guess my question is, “Have people been given amply opportunity to voice their opinion?”. I am not sure what the procedure is for something like this. Does it go to a public vote if protests continue? What if there is a vote and protests continue?

  85. Random Guy
    May 1, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    No, the project is being forced on everybody, determined years ago by a small number of specific bidniss people around federal mandate nonetheless…not local at all, except as described by the people who did the hand shaking, and today by the shmucks who insist on believing it’s a good idea. Additionally, I’d argue that as much as it’s being argued as necessary to meet national standards, it should be a national issue. Like the cleanliness of the ocean and the sky…virgin forests need to be protected worldwide…big and little trees alike, it’s the same forest and it needs to grow, if anything. They belong to everybody, and have been in Humboldt long before everybody.

    If I had kids, I’d weigh the cons of feeding them mood altering drugs much heavier than the pros. The pharm industry says the pills are good, with only potential negatives. From what I’ve witnessed with my own two eyes, the pills are negative with only potential positive…and even then, there’s the reality of lifelong addiction. Watch the documentary I linked to, it’s good food for though at least…if you’re serious about it.

  86. May 1, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Adderal is pure amphetamine. If you give it to a child you are risking life long addiction for that child.

    If adults care to take it that is another thing. For some people it may be a legally prescribed substitute for methamphetamine.

    Try some strong coffee first.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  87. Random Guy
    May 1, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    “Try some strong coffee first.”

    no kidding. I was being polite in my response to Landlord…pills are VERY VERY BAD FUCKED UP SHIT. It’s horror movie material that people feed them to their own children…on a doctor’s advice…on the medical industry’s word…on corporate support…backed by the government itself.

  88. Landlord
    May 2, 2011 at 7:45 am

    and those are reasons why we have never suggested them. Actually I wanted to try them but my spouse and child were against it, so we didn’t. Doctors disagree with some of those statements- “addiction, permanent brain changes, etc”. I think in the case of a kid who is failing in every aspect to the point of endangering their mental and physical health, it might be appropriate. I know many parents who believe strongly that ritalin works for their children.

    For now, we need to continue to search for answers and help that are more gentle. Thanks.

  89. May 2, 2011 at 9:10 am

    That’s why I suggested strong coffee.

    I wasn’t kidding.

    The idea of prescribing stimulants to children with ADD/ADHD is based upon a theory of “paradoxical effect” where supposedly psychoactive substances work the opposite in children than they do in adults.

    I don’t believe it. I don’t think the paradox effect is real. I think that what happens when you give a child a strong psychoactive chemical that they simply become too confused to do much, thus they may seem calmer. Besides you rarely hear of a depressed youngster being prescribed heroin to cheer them up, do you? Of course not.

    Oh I know you hear of a few success stories with these drugs, but they can just be cases of youngsters simply growing out of a restless period in their lives.

    But you can test the theory at least with your child by letting it drink some coffee and see how it goes. If the paradox effect is of any value to your family you should at least be able to replicate a mild version of it without seriously abusing your child.

    Just remember that caffeine can be addictive too.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  90. Wireman1313
    May 3, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    humdoldt uses on average 70 mw of electricty. New natural gas pow plant on humboldt bay can produce up to 168 mw. mw = megawatt. we dont import power

  91. Wireman1313
    May 3, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    diet soda tastes like crap

  92. Joe
    May 17, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    Tax and regulate and then we will not have to grow at all (or at least, not inside).

  93. beel
    October 5, 2011 at 9:43 am

    This Thursday, October 6, the Schatz Energy Research Center, affiliated with HSU, invites everyone to join them to listen to Dr. Evan Mills discuss “The Carbon Footprint of Indoor Cannabis Production,” as part of the Sustainable Futures Speaker Series.

    This interdisciplinary speaker series is intended to stimulate cross disciplinary discussion, debate, and collaboration around issues related to energy, the environment, and society.

    5:30pm in the Behavioral & Social Sciences building room 166

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