Home > Uncategorized > Lawsuit Filed against California for Pelican Bay Decades-Long Solitary Confinement

Lawsuit Filed against California for Pelican Bay Decades-Long Solitary Confinement

Exercise yard at Pelican Bay SHU

The Center for Constitutional Rights has filed a lawsuit against the State of California, alleging that holding prisoners in solitary confinement for decades is unconstitutional as “cruel and unusual punishment.”

Coverage of the suit is at the Guardian.

The Guardian article points out that more than 500 of the prisoners held in Pelican Bay’s secure housing unit (SHU) have been there for more than a decade.

While a person must be convicted in court to be sent to prison, no such requirement exists for prison officials to send prisoners to the SHU, where they spend at least 22 hours a day locked in cells and are kept under conditions of extreme isolation.

From the Guardian article:

Gabriel Reyes – sentenced to 25 years to life after burglarizing an uninhabited building – was allegedly denied a telephone call home when his stepfather died because he had been allowed a telephone call months earlier when his biological father passed away. Reyes has not hugged his daughters in nearly two decades.

The primary reason prisoners remain in the SHU, according to the suit, is their refusal or inability to “debrief” administrators on the gang activity of other inmates; essentially providing officials with every piece of information they have on the violent gang they are accused of being linked to.

According to the plaintiffs’ complaint, the requirement “condition[s] release from inhumane conditions on cooperation with prison officials in a manner that places prisoners and their families in significant danger of retaliation”.

Gabriel Reyes story is described in more detail in a column published in today’s SF Chronicle.

  1. Boris
    May 31, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    You have more prisoners per capita than any other country on Earth, Americans must be bad people.

  2. alley
    May 31, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    As a society we are obligated to take care of those who have been placed in our care, aka prisoners. The SHU situation is deplorable.

  3. May 31, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    And in prisons we make worse people. California seems to hate its inmates almost as much as Texas and Louisiana do. I applaud this lawsuit.

  4. Just Watchin
    May 31, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Put them all in the exercise yard, give em knives and clubs, and the last man breathing gets returned to general population. Problem solved.

  5. Mitch
    May 31, 2012 at 1:51 pm

    Just watchin,

    It’s comforting to think that anyone in the Pelican Bay SHU is, by definition, the worst of the worst.

    Comforting, but far from true. That’s another of those realizations which, once they sink in, force some of us to really think about what is being done in our names.

  6. Anonymous
    May 31, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    The horrors of general population v the horrors of solitary confinement…

  7. 2 cents
    May 31, 2012 at 2:00 pm

    Throw ‘Just Watchin’ in the exercise yard, unarmed! Small problem solved.
    Cruel and unusual punishment – illegal. Solitary drives people crazy and they know it.
    Half of Fed prisoners are in for drugs – most for mere possession. Costing TONS of tax money, for what?
    America is becoming the ‘Red China’ of my childhood.

  8. High Finance
    May 31, 2012 at 2:28 pm

    Pelican Bay prisoners are not in for “mere possession”.

    But 2pm makes a good point. If I was a prisoner there I would rather be in solitary than in the general population.

  9. Fact Checker
    May 31, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    Wrong Hi Liar! People from Urban areas have been arrested for possession, gone to jail, been assaulted, had time added, wound up at Pelican Bay, did not have information for the Warden, and ended up in the SHU.

  10. Sista
    May 31, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    I have known Gabriel and his mom since PB opened its doors, just about. She was
    on my radio show years ago to discuss 3 strikes. I have been intensely involved in getting myself educated about prison U.S. A.
    Yes, there are folks who have done some awful stuff but the bulk of people we put away are there for drugs.
    Solitary Confinement is sick. That we do this at all makes me wonder just who we are as a society. The underclass in this country has such a hard row……………

  11. High Finance
    May 31, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Any facts there Factless ?

    I have read that only violent cons are sent to Pelican Bay, the worst of the worse.

  12. Fact Checker
    May 31, 2012 at 3:24 pm

    Hi Liar. Do you really believe everything you “read”? Further, do you really believe everything that you think? P.S. My observations are based on observation, not hearsay.

  13. HUUFC
    May 31, 2012 at 3:38 pm

    Inmates earn the right to go the the SHU units in Pelican Bay. They are in there to protect other inmates and staff. If they don’t like it start acting like a human being and stay out.

  14. Anonymous
    May 31, 2012 at 3:41 pm

    Hey, folks! You know, California encourages race-hatred within the walls of our prisons. It reallly does. Strict segregation according to race is the Rule. Violations of the Rule are dealt with by the prisoners themselves with violence. What do you suppose happens when prisoners are released? We expect them to live in brotherhood with their fellow-man, regardless of race. Some types of foolishness are so egregious we cannot admit we are party to them. So we ignore them and pretend they do not exist.

  15. Mitch
    May 31, 2012 at 4:46 pm

    Anonymous 3:41 is right on target.

    And Sista, if you are the Sista from the radio, thanks for all that you do and have done. As you know, your show is a wonderful gift to a lot of prisoners and their families.

  16. High Finance
    May 31, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Factless, have you ever posted a fact ?

  17. Empires End
    May 31, 2012 at 6:14 pm

    As your corrupt, genocidal culture collapses (a process well underway and completely unavoidable), imagine the karmic debt to be visited upon the survivors of this cultuiral train wreck when the guards are no longer paid and the prisoners- (discarded industrial surplus labor resources)- are let loose upon us all with a fine case of vengance percolating in their guts against the society that tossed them away into a violent, racist, hell-hole. Of course there are many dangerous and unstable perpetrators of violence who belong segregated from society at large, but many prisoners who were otherwise non-violent before they went to prison for various crimes and infractions not involving violence, have become dangerous and violent people by the necessity of survival in prison. Good luck to us all when that tipping point of the collapse is stumbled over and we face plant hard.

  18. 713
    May 31, 2012 at 7:19 pm

    sounds like nice people

    “The man punched Kody in the face and, after being physically restrained by Tray Ball when he attempted to run, Kody kicked and stomped the man for approximately twenty minutes. Kody’s vicious attack left the man in a coma with his face permanently disfigured. According to Kody, Crips present at the crime scene overheard police officers saying that whoever assaulted the man was a “monster” and reported this back to Kody. From that point on other members of the ETG’s referred to Kody as “Monster” and Kody took the name as a street moniker.”

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanyika_Shakur

  19. steak n eggs
    May 31, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Don’t make choices that will land you in prison, or plan by the rules while in prison. Pretty fucking simple. Our prison system has better living conditions than most third world countries. How soft should the conditions be? The prison population’s behavior follows the same bell-shaped curve as us free men. There is always going to be some dumb-ass that needs to go to big-boy time-out. Apparently in prison, it really sucks…well figure it out then.

  20. 2 cents
    May 31, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    Right, and the racial disparity (relative to the US population) just goes to show that some people are just “too dumb” to live outside or stay out of solitary, ya? Here on our oh-so-level playing field! Sheesh.

    And ‘Fact Checker’ is correct. I had a friend in County jail (for possession) who ended up in Pelican Bay somehow – no violence. He said the guards used low level guys like him to serve the guys the guards didn’t dare get near. So don’t buy that P.B. holds only the worst.

    And as far as “how soft” the prisons should be – the question is impossible to discuss when half the people in them don’t belong there at all.

    That some punk came up and became (a) Monster reflects back on the oh-so-crooked society, not on solitary confinement per se.

    We used to be better than this (at least the population was).

  21. Anonymous
    May 31, 2012 at 9:54 pm

    The Center for Constitutional Rights ?! Wow that sounds impressive

    Snivel snivel snivel

  22. May 31, 2012 at 10:07 pm

    Watch: “Lockup, Hardtime, Jail, Behind bars” and a host of other shows and you see fat white guards violating the rights of prisoners every day.
    If we had film of German guards doing this to their prisoners after WWII, we would have hung them.

  23. 713
    May 31, 2012 at 10:11 pm

    2cents, I read his book (Monster). He was in a gang. He killed a lot of people. What to do with people killing and stealing?

  24. Ponder z
    May 31, 2012 at 10:23 pm

    HI Fi, the facts are that most of the Bleeding heart Libtards on this blog are gullible liberal stooges. Beleaving everything they are told. Like in the SHU for posestion, come on. For real, you realy beleave that? Now look up L I B T A R D.

    Libtard

    As repetitive as it sounds, it stands for “liberal retard.”

    A libtard wants to live in a fantasy world (in which life is the way that they WISH IT WAS) as opposed to dealing with life the way it actually is.

    (This explains the religious fervor that many of them demonstrate when it comes to smoking pot).

    The most idealistic libtard envisions a time when science/technology and Socialism will eliminate all poverty, hunger, war, disease, injustice, unemployment and prejudice. (It is a nice pipe dream but human nature will forever stand in the way of that goal).

    Most libtards subscribe to the notion that “people are basically good”, and build their foundation for activism and “improving the human condition” on that faulty premise. Because they deny the facts about human nature, their “reasoning” is diametrically opposite to common sense (blue states vs. red states).

    The reality that people have different initiative levels, are basically selfish, and often work for their own interests before helping others, puts a libtard’s panties in a wad. So, when citizens will not voluntarily comply with various libtard prescriptions for “the common good”, then laws must be passed, or force used, to MAKE them comply. (It is the gradual path to totalitarianism).

    Likewise, his/her naïve cries of: “can’t we all just get along?” and “there is nothing worth dying for” are red flags for anyone with a clue.

    Metaphorically speaking, a libtard is a sheep who thinks that their grasp of diplomatic nuance or metaphysical sensitivity will prevent their flock from being devoured by the world’s Islamic/Communist wolves. When America, the sheep dog, responds to wolf attacks, the libtard judges these defensive actions as offensive and wolfish.

    Since libtards are unable to recognize our enemies for what they are, they cannot be trusted to safeguard our future.

    >>>>>

    In a large nutshell, a libtard’s goal in life includes one or more of the following:

    –the establishment of a Socialist “utopia” (a.k.a. a global nanny state)
    –“benevolent” totalitarian control of the world’s population through any means necessary
    –ever increasing government micromanagement of private enterprise (a.k.a. clueless meddling)
    –the adoption of laws, treaties and tax regulations that hinder America’s competitiveness
    –the usurpation of the legislative process, at all levels, through judicial fiat
    –the filing of specious law suits in order to thwart the will of the people (e.g. Calif. Proposition. 187)
    –the promotion of the tyranny of the minority
    –the filing of specious law suits to shakedown corporations for cash (under the guise of “social responsibility”)
    –the disproportionate taxation of citizens “who have more money than they need”
    –the redistribution of wealth from producers to non-producers (under the guise of “fairness”)
    –the banning and confiscation of all privately owned guns (even though it has lead to genocide)
    –the abolition of all private property rights
    –the destruction of all national sovereignty (America first, of course)
    –the destruction of Capitalism
    –the establishment of one religion (with no personal accountability), OR the abolition of all religion
    –the appeasement of Islamic radicals and their American front groups like CAIR (see: Religion of Pieces)
    –the regulation, or banning, of all opposition media (under the guise of “fairness”)
    –the appeasement of Communist dictators and their American front groups
    –the further insertion of Socialist ideology and indoctrination into public school curricula
    –the purposeful “dumbing down” of the masses through inane public school curricula and pedagogy
    –mass thought control through “speech codes” and political correctness
    –the further promulgation of the homosexual/pedophile agenda
    –the teaching of HATE (superficially disguised as “Women’s Studies”, “African Studies”, etc.)
    –the legalization of marijuana (“far OUT, man”)
    –the establishment of world wide socialized medicine (under the guise of “fairness”)
    –the conservation of the environment over the conservation of the American economy
    –the demonization of attempts to make English America’s national language
    –world peace (which genocidal dictators define as: “the absence of conflict”–dead men cannot resist your brutal oppression)
    –the conservation of the environment over the conservation of humanity
    –the promotion of abortion as birth control, eugenics, and teaching the theory of evolution as fact (even though the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics precludes it from the get-go)
    –the abolition of individual freedom
    –anarchy

    Not surprisingly, there is a thread of anti-Americanism that runs through these ideas. A libtard cannot stomach the idea that America, despite its faults, is the greatest country in the world. As such, he/she sees it as their duty to tarnish the country’s current and past image using all available means including: cherry picking facts and using innuendo, half-truths, lies and fabrications (see: Rathergate).

    Libtards’ actions undermine America’s educational system, economy, criminal justice system, military personnel, sovereignty, security, and freedoms. Meanwhile, they try to fabricate a moral equivalence with rogue nations like China, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Syria, Somalia and Sudan. (But don’t question their patriotism).

    NOTE TO ALL MALCONTENTS: If America is truly evil, please pick yourself a better country.

    If the health care system in Cuba, Canada or Great Britain is superior to America’s, then you are free to leave. If the crime rate in China, North Korea or the Magic Kingdom is so much lower, then you too are free to leave. Not enough hedonism for you? Then try Amsterdam, Bangkok or Tijuana.

    If life in general is better in Sweden, The Netherlands or Switzerland then WHY are you still here??? You talk big, but you lack the courage of your convictions. So do humanity a favor–shut up and move away.

    Otherwise get a real job, and get a life, because you obviously have WAY too much time on your hands.

    >>>>>

    Because most libtards are pantheists (New Agers), agnostics, atheists, liberal Jews, liberal Catholics, or have otherwise turned their backs on Jehovah, they lack true spiritual fulfillment. In order to try and fill that void, and “to make a difference”, they work for the causes listed above. A pretty complete listing can be found at discoverthenetworks.org.

    A libtard will participate in protests, rallies, marches, bike rides, etc. in a feckless attempt to change whatever supposedly needs changing (see: muckadoo). Their desire to revisit the “glory” days of the 60’s is sometimes a driving force. Regardless, the end result is usually the same: nothing actually changes.

    But, since a libtard wants to be rated for his/her good intentions, versus actual results, they leave these activities with a feeling of success “because they have raised awareness” or “let their voices be heard.” Post-protest gatherings often feature excessive drinking, drug abuse, and impromptu fornication to celebrate the “victory.”

    Because conservatives take responsibility for themselves and their children, have real jobs, under gird the economy, and value their time, their counter protesting is often negligible.

    It is not that they don’t care about their causes; they just understand that 1968 tactics are useless. Likewise, their sense of self worth does not come from how well they perform at work, or in life, but from a realization that they have been given a good and satisfying destiny that no one can take away.

    With all of this in mind, may we NOW question a libtard’s patriotism???

  25. What Now
    May 31, 2012 at 10:35 pm

    “The degree of civilization in a society can be judged by entering its prisons.”
    – Dostoyevsky.

    There have been many prisoners released in the last few yers that have been exonerated by either DNA testing (seldom) or when mashinations by police and prosecutors becomes public knowledge.

    The first stae governor to commute all death penalty senetences in his state because of glaring evidence of racist sentencing tendencies and prosocutorital misconduct was a conservative mid-western republican.
    The american judicial system is far too obsessed with tort reform (clear the commoners out so corporations can take the last 1/3 of the docket they don’t dominate) and blind to sadistic tendencies unleashed in uniforms from beat cop to prison guard.

    There are certainly people who should be isolated from harming others and that in itself is not the problem. The problem is indifferent buearacrcy and and current social mindset which appears to be akin to viking brserkers without any individual or collective conscience.

    A good ly number of the people posting here in defending the Pelican Bay and other prsion systems are many of the same ones who don;t seem to believe any other information from any other governmental organization.
    I would venture to guess that many of them believe and profess themselves to be of the christian faith,

    Apparently, they;ve skipped all 12 quotations attributyed to their miracle worker and returned to some tortured reasoning fron excerpts in the Pentatuch to justify their own twisted sadistic bloodlust.

  26. Just Watchin
    June 1, 2012 at 5:22 am

    Many convicts that are released have trouble adjusting to society because they have nowhere to go on the outside, or anyone to help them. They just need someone to open their homes to them and tell them how terribly wrong their treatment was.
    Any volunteers??? ………… I didn’t think so.

  27. Mitch
    June 1, 2012 at 7:02 am

    713,

    You ask: “What to do with people killing and stealing?”

    Well, for people who kill and steal — and I’m sure you recognize that these are crimes of different seriousness — we could do what the civilized countries and most American states do. Imprison them and do what successfully maintains control without using methods that dehumanize us.

    I’ve spent some time in Pelican Bay (between ten and twenty visits, maybe more) and toured the SHU.

    The SHU is like something from a dystopian movie — all clean and quiet and silent and inhuman. I can’t imagine anyone going to work there for more than a day and coming out unchanged. And prison authorities actually send people there who are not lifers, so be very worried about what happens when people are released, essentially, directly from the SHU to society at large.

    And the person who pointed out that Pelican Bay enforces racial segregation is absolutely correct — the prison authorities have ceded control to the gangs on that issue.

    Prison authorities in Texas (Texas!) are on record as calling California’s prison system medical care a disaster for human rights.

    It’s not lack of money, it’s something else.

    Pelican Bay is a completely counterproductive institution with a well-paid work force. It should be removed from the control of the State of California and turned over to federal court receivership.

  28. Mitch
    June 1, 2012 at 7:32 am

    I believe Ponder z’s comment at 10:23, despite its length, is a gift and should be required reading for anyone interested in the world.

    To me, it represents a consistent worldview, and clarifies the attitudes that many people on the right have towards people on the left. I find myself partly agreeing with parts of it, only to be confronted by odd aspects like, among other things, the incorrect use of The Second Law of Thermodynamics to “disprove” evolution. (Ponder, just for the record, the sun shines on the Earth so more energy arrives daily despite what the oil companies would have us believe.)

    I’m going to print it out and keep it handy.

  29. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 7:42 am

    Ponderz is a contard whose “gifts” aren’t worth opening.

  30. Mitch
    June 1, 2012 at 7:51 am

    Well, 7:42, if you look at the front page you’ll see we disagree.

  31. Dick Wad
    June 1, 2012 at 7:56 am

    Z hits it on the button,

  32. Dan
    June 1, 2012 at 8:00 am

    “They just need someone to open their homes to them and tell them how terribly wrong their treatment was.” JustWatchin

    They were not rehabbed, they were tortured and
    deprived- went-in injured come-out crippled.
    Penance is one thing, torture is another.

  33. Richard
    June 1, 2012 at 8:16 am

    Poderz’s comments are helpful to read and remember. They don’t ring true, due in part to hyperbole.

    Most of us liberals believe in:
    ” zoning and restrictions on private property rights (no you can not build a slaughter house next door to me in our “residentially” zone neighborhood.”

    To Poderz, this is turned into:
    ” the abolition of all private property rights”

    As to healthcare, and if you don’t like America, why don’t you leave, I hope Poderz shares this with it’s fellow teabaggers.
    If you don’t like America and our President and our laws on Healthcare (Obamacare), you are welcome to leave.

    Of course the many Democratic Socialist countries do NOT take it to the level of any any of the thing Poderz says, yet they all have healthier and happier populations then we do.

  34. Mitch
    June 1, 2012 at 8:36 am

    The most remarkable thing in Ponder z’s comment, for me, is that s/he can complain that “libtards” think people are basically good and then in the next breath complain that regulation (“micromanaging”) is bad. (Well, that plus the archaic reference to the homosexual agenda, linking it to pedophilia, and the misreading of the laws of thermodynamics, but I digress. It’s hard to choose one most remarkable thing.)

    It’s precisely because liberals recognize that human nature is not completely good that they see the need for regulation of free enterprise, the enforcement of human rights, and the protection of members of minority groups. Society, acting after proper deliberation, tries to restrain our worst instincts.

    I think, in the main, Ponder z just has a different idea of who is “good” and who is “bad.” Atheists, agnostics, new agers, liberal Jews and liberal Catholics… bad. Muslims… very bad. Jehovah-fearers who don’t believe Muhammed was a prophet… good, or at least under proper control. People who are willing to work hard, fight hard, and climb to the top of the pile: good. People who try to help others: foolish and weak, therefore bad.

    With a worldview like Ponder’s it would be hard for me to get out of bed but Ponder’s able to do it because Ponder believes he or she will have a great life in heaven. Best of luck.

  35. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Ponderz just makes the case for how crazy those who hold his views really are.

  36. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Ponder Z copied and pasted that from one of several sites. As with “high finance” you’re wasting brain use on a troll.

  37. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Moviedad ! I have watched the shows you mentioned and never seen “fat white guys” or skinny black guys OR anybody torturing prisoners. Some would call your rant misrepresentation, I call it just plain B.S. !

    You have zero credibility Mr. Moiviedud.

  38. Percy
    June 1, 2012 at 8:58 am

    Nice cut and paste job Ponder. Not much happening in your own mind? http://www.speakupwny.com/forums/showthread.php?t=132332

  39. Geneva
    June 1, 2012 at 9:01 am

    All I can say to Ponder Z is :
    OY!!!!

  40. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 9:21 am

    The truth is the American prison system is a horrific evil that turns misguided kids into psychopathic monsters. Neither subjecting them to the violence of the general population or the isolation of solitary confinement will return them to society as healthier, contributing members. The high recidivism rate may be interpreted as a success to those who profit from having the highest rate of imprisonment in the “free world.” It is against their financial interests to actually rehabilitate prisoners before they turn them loose on society.

  41. coffee_addict
    June 1, 2012 at 9:26 am

    funny, I did notice how the grammar suddenly got better

  42. Thorstein Veblen
    June 1, 2012 at 9:51 am

    The thing about prisoners is, most of them get back out. Wouldn’t it be in our (non-criminal) selfish interests to do something to 1) not lock up so many and 2) figure out a way to make them less criminal when they are released?

  43. Carla Baku
    June 1, 2012 at 9:55 am

    Something does ring a bit fishy with Ponder Z’s comments–besides the diatribe of hatred, intolerance and circular reasoning, of course. I find it hard to buy that someone who cannot spell the words BELIEVE or POSSESSION in paragraph one, could then turn around and properly spell words such as “diametrically,” “disproportionate,” and “specious.” I doubt the actual person behind the Ponder Z persona commands the vocabulary demonstrated and I doubt Ponder Z could define “specious” without a dictionary in hand, despite the fact that the word beautifully describes his/her entire rant.

  44. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Well said Carla.

    Good point, Thorstein. Whose interests are served by prisoners coming out of prison more dangerous to society than when they went in?

  45. 2 cents
    June 1, 2012 at 11:27 am

    Cops and politicians.

  46. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    What about the corporate prison industry 2 Cents? There are private prisons and supply contractors, work programs in regions across the country which provide employers with slave labor and then there are the attorneys, the courts and prison guards. The prison industry is sucking money from the taxpayers while insuring the numbers of prisoners will only increase. If they had society’s benefit in mind they’d be copying more successful models in other countries; but that, like universal health care, wouldn’t be as profitable.

  47. 2 cents
    June 1, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    Yes, I almost said lawyers too……I do not disagree with any part of your statement. And the use of prisoners as slaves is disturbing on so many levels – sold to the public as the prisoners paying for their own incarceration! Such B.S…………

  48. Libby
    June 1, 2012 at 1:59 pm

    2cents “I had a friend in County jail (for possession) who ended up in Pelican Bay somehow – no violence.”
    Right, I am sure he told you the whole story, the absolute truth. A “friend” telling you a story is not fact.

  49. Mitch
    June 1, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Libby,

    If you believe NY Times reporters try to validate their facts, maybe you’ll consider reading this story worthwhile. The truth is, these things DO happen, and I don’t think they are all that rare.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/31/us/battles-to-change-prison-policy-of-solitary-confinement.html?pagewanted=all

    Here’s how the story, by Erica Goode, begins:

    Ernesto Lira is not a murderer. He has never participated in a prison riot. The crime that landed him behind bars was carrying three foil-wrapped grams of methamphetamine in his car.

    But on the basis of evidence that a federal court later deemed unreliable, prison officials labeled Mr. Lira a gang member and sent him to the super-maximum-security unit at Pelican Bay State Prison, the state’s toughest correctional institution.

    There, for eight years, he spent 23 or more hours a day in a windowless 7.6-by-11.6-foot cell…

  50. Just Watchin
    June 1, 2012 at 2:47 pm

    So Dan…….have you contacted Pelican Bay about taking in a released prisoner??

  51. 2 cents
    June 1, 2012 at 3:37 pm

    Libby – you wouldn’t believe anything I said.
    There is a whole class of prisoners in Pelican Bay used to serve those the guards don’t want to risk contact with. And if they should end up needing to protect themselves, that would be a violation of rules that can result in the person remaining in the system a very long time.
    This guy was lucky, he got out – lots don’t. And I say again, 1/2 the people in Federal prisons do not belong there……….
    Why are y’all such TOOLS? Junkies don’t deserve prison the way white collar fraudsters do – people who ruin hundreds of lives! And you want to pay to incarcerate the little guys! Let’s put away some bankers! And not in some damn country club or house arrest! To Pelican Bay with them – sociopaths who DO belong there!

  52. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    The Libtard post is being posted and reposted to Blogs across the country, this is tea-partyesq

  53. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 4:34 pm

    “the sun shines on the Earth so more energy arrives daily”

    Every Talibaptist knows the oil was placed by god. You don’t believe that crazy theory that hundreds of millions of years of sunlight are responsible for all our coal, natural gas and oil, do you?

  54. High Finance
    June 1, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    “sunlight” ? Miles below the surface ?

  55. Dan
    June 1, 2012 at 9:24 pm

    “So Dan…….have you contacted Pelican Bay about taking in a released prisoner?? “Just Watchin”

    No.

  56. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 10:36 pm

    HiFi, the fossil fuels beneath the surface were at one time plants and algae on the surface, grown by sunlight, buried and compressed over millions of years.

  57. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    HiFi hasn’t even heard the “crazy theory” about how fossil fuels were created so how can he believe it?

  58. Anonymous
    June 1, 2012 at 10:42 pm

    Of course that can’t be true since the earth is only 6000 years old.

  59. June 2, 2012 at 12:41 am

    Take Action: Honor the Pelican Bay SHU Prisoners’ Demands

    Sign this PETITION: http://ccrjustice.org/solitary-action

    Learn more about solitary confinement and the Pelican Bay SHU here http://www.ccrjustice.org/solitary-factsheet and the Center for Constitutional Rights (CCR)lawsuit here http://ccrjustice.org/pelican-bay

    Sign a letter online! http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/383/p/dia/action/public/?action_KEY=10462

    Follow CCR on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/pages/Center-for-Constitutional-Rights/31070403665, and on Twitter http://twitter.com/#%21/theccr @theCCR.

  60. High Finance
    June 2, 2012 at 6:51 am

    Anonymices, 10.36pm and 10.41pm are trying desperatly to cover for Anonymous 4.34pm.

    10.36pm stated the obvious but that is NOT what Anonymous 4.34pm said.

  61. Ponder z
    June 2, 2012 at 6:57 am

    Carla, I can say liberal thought is specious too. So what? I did cut and past because the definition was so perfect. Thus far I have been criticized as a religions troll, who cant work spell check. I really do wonder about people who criticize misspellings or grammar. As they must be perfect, highly educated theorists. Is that the best you can do?

    While most of the libs here want to rehabilitate the prison system. A system, I will agrees is bad, corrupt, and unjust. I may also point out that the prison guard union is alive and well. Many of the prisoners are career criminals or gang members who will never change. But the good libtard will have them back on the street after they are given a prison collage education. An education that is used against the system for their own gain. I say keep these punks locked up. I know a few who have been to prison, and all made it out alive and well without becoming monsters. Non had gang affiliations. Non had ever wanted to go back and are staying out of trouble so far. Two were in San Quentin and one in the federal system.

  62. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 7:26 am

    There is nothing inaccurate about what 4:34 said HIFi. Sunlight millions of years ago created the fossil fuels we are burning today. The sun still shines just as brightly every day.

  63. Thorstein Veblen
    June 2, 2012 at 8:08 am

    Actually, anon 7:26, the fossil fuels theory is just that, theory, not fact. And it is increasingly questioned by scientists who see its weaknesses.

    Agree, though, that the sun shines everyday, maybe not here on the coast though.

  64. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 8:15 am

    You would have to provide a source to support your claim that “it is increasingly questioned by scientists who see it’s weaknesses,” Thorstein. Where do they increasingly think all that carbon came from?

  65. Mitch
    June 2, 2012 at 8:28 am

    Ponder z writes:

    While most of the libs here want to rehabilitate the prison system. A system, I will agrees is bad, corrupt, and unjust.

    OK, we agree, I guess. But I’m not really sure what you’re trying to say. You start by saying “while.” That makes me think you’re going to come in with a “however” or a “but,” but you never do, leaving me unsure whether you think the prison system should be repaired. You do say you think it is bad, corrupt, and unjust, so where is your disagreement with those who think the system needs to be repaired? You don’t make that clear.

    I may also point out that the prison guard union is alive and well.

    And? So?

    Many of the prisoners are career criminals or gang members who will never change. But the good libtard will have them back on the street after they are given a prison collage education. An education that is used against the system for their own gain.

    People are released from prison after serving the sentence that was handed down. It has nothing to do with liberal vs. conservative as far as I can tell. I don’t think Pelican Bay is giving people college educations these days, but I’m ready to be corrected on that.

    I say keep these punks locked up.

    So you think serving the sentence for the crime you were convicted of is not enough, and you should get to decide when someone is released, once they’ve been convicted of a crime? Do you understand that would be a huge change to a principle of justice that predates the United States by hundreds of years?

    I know a few who have been to prison, and all made it out alive and well without becoming monsters. Non had gang affiliations. Non had ever wanted to go back and are staying out of trouble so far. Two were in San Quentin and one in the federal system.

    So the people you know personally should have been released at the end of their sentences? Just the bad people should serve longer sentences? But then who gets to decide which people are bad? The warden? That’s a lot of power to give to someone, wouldn’t you say?

    Did you glance at the article about the guy who spent 8 years in solitary because he’d been arrested for possession of three grams of meth and then a cop said he had a drawing in his cell with gang symbols, but when a judge asked the cop (8 years later) to point them out, he couldn’t find any? Maybe you ought to glance at that.

  66. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 8:34 am

    Who the funk is still arguing that global climate change isn’t the result of over a century of planet raping industries? LIFE FAIL! The great thing is that as more people wake up to the facts of the matter, bloggers who try to cozy their own thoughts about climate change look more and more like the blabbering bloggers they really are.

  67. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 9:01 am

    “Actually, anon 7:26, the fossil fuels theory is just that, theory, not fact. And it is increasingly questioned by scientists who see its weaknesses. ”

    Hogwash!

    Virtually all commercially viable petroleum and coal deposits are consistent with organic-rich depositional environments. The rocks that these resources are extracted from (shale, sandstone, limestone) are consistent with this model. Migration of petroleum and gas from these organic-rich source areas to permeable reservoir rock is well documented. Fracking is done when the deposits remain in the original low-permeability rocks (ocean or shallow-marine shale and limestone). Traces of land plants in coal deposits are common. I’d challenge you to discuss this with any geologist from the oil, gas, and coal industry. They’d tell you that there is no “challenge” to this model, except from crack-pot bloggers.

    And please learn what is meant by a scientific theory – it’s not the same as a hypothesis or whimsical guess. Our ideas of gravity, cells, and molecules are all based on theories – well established ideas that allow for successful predictions and are the most consistent with our observations. Something like hydrocarbon formation will never be “fact” unless one has a few hundred thousand years to “watch” it happen. Instead it is understood through the scientific method of data collection, prediction, and testing.

  68. Mitch
    June 2, 2012 at 9:02 am

    TV 8:08, Anonymous 8:15,

    Some geologists argue that some oil may be from non-biological activity in the earth’s mantle. I’d never heard of this before, but it’s manna from heaven for creationists.

    It’s even got a local angle: Alexander von Humboldt was the first to propose it. Organic chemistry has come a long way since then and, as far as I know, nobody is arguing that the oil we typically drill comes from non-biological sources.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

  69. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 9:12 am

    Even upper mantle temperatures (right under the crust) range from 500 to 900 °C (932 to 1652 °F). Any “oil” would not exist in this environment. Again – Hogwash.
    Some carbon undoubtedly exists in the mantle – but this is not oil, gas, or hydrocarbons as we know them.

  70. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 9:18 am

    The idea of abiotic oil formation is/was a “hypothesis” that has not led to successful prediction of oil and gas deposits, and was abandoned long ago. Every drop of gas you’ve ever put in your car is from deposits consistent with the biotic model.

  71. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 9:36 am

    Nothing about the consistency of oil has anything to do with how the planet’s being abused every single day by industry. No big numbers or guys in labcoats necessary to know that climate change as we are experiencing it right now is entirely the result of destruction by humans.

  72. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Or maybe god buried that oil because he didn’t want us to use it and now he’s heating up the planet as punishment for our transgressions. Once again “expelling” us from the Garden of Eden.

  73. macville
    June 2, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Ponder-z is an idiot

  74. Thorstein Veblen
    June 2, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Anon. ok, maybe it is from dinosaurs, I wasn’t there. I actually don’t know where oil and gas come from. When people are so certain of their theory, it brings Ptolemy to my mind.

  75. Anonymous
    June 2, 2012 at 11:23 am

    99.9% of hydrocarbons are from microorganisms – plankton, bacteria, etc. – not dinosaurs

    As for Ptolemy: when he discovered that his astronomical hypotheses were inconsistent with observation, he fabricated observations so that he could claim that the observations prove the hypotheses. This is fraud and not the same as the hypothesis testing that has led to acceptance of the idea of a biotic origin for oil, gas, and coal. Testing and prediction has led to the rejection of the abiotic model.
    Of course, you can go on the internet and read the claims of modern-day ptolemys who ignore observations and reject what they don’t want to believe as “theories”. Science isn’t about believing; it’s about ideas that are the most consistent with observation, testing, and successful prediction.

    Again, I suggest you read about scientific theories. They are not pet ideas of one person and they are much different that hypotheses.

  76. 2 cents
    June 2, 2012 at 11:52 am

    I read yesterday that the Norwegians consider solitary confinement torture – to the extent they won’t subject a known mass murderer to it (Brevik). Though, since they don’t wish him to mix with other prisoners they are surrounding him with professionals – hired (no, I don’t think we should do this – don’t bother with that argument).
    If that isn’t just the most libtard thing I’ve ever heard!
    Didn’t we get the word ‘vandal’ from that part of the world?
    Who are the barbarians now?
    Yes, I am LIBTARD! Now those of you who haven’t – sign that petition above. The energy we’ve put into this thread, I hope most of you do, Much more productive than dickering with Hi-fly.

  77. Dan c/oThinkProgress
    June 2, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    California Prison Throws 78 Prisoners in Solitary for More Than 20 Years
    Saturday, 02 June 2012 00:00
    By Tara Culp-Ressler, ThinkProgress | News Analysis

    A civil rights group sued California’s prison system, claiming its use of long-term solitary confinement for the high-security inmates at Pelican Bay State Prison should be considered torture and therefore violates the prisoners’ human rights.
    Lawyers from the Center for Constitutional Rights filed a lawsuit demanding prison reforms on behalf of the more than 500 current inmates who have been held in Secure Housing Units in the maximum-security prison — which involves prolonged isolation in the 80-square-foot, windowless cells for all but 90 minutes a day — for between 10 and 28 years. Seventy-eight of those prisoners have been in solitary confinement at Pelican Bay State Prison for more than 20 years.
    The lawsuit is in line with United Nations experts’ recommendations for a nation-wide ban on solitary confinement. The UN Special Rapporteur on torture, Juan E. Méndez, urged the U.S. to cease the practice except in very rare cases:
    Segregation, isolation, separation, cellular, lockdown, Supermax, the hole, Secure Housing Unit… whatever the name, solitary confinement should be banned by States as a punishment or extortion technique. [...] Considering the severe mental pain or suffering solitary confinement may cause, it can amount to torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.
    Human rights groups also maintain that ending solitary confinement is an integral step in putting a stop to torture and maintaining the basic moral standards of our nation. Human Rights Watch has documented the United States’ “inappropriate use” of solitary confinement and prolonged isolation for over a decade, and has frequently detailed its damaging psychological effects in U.S. prisons:
    Isolation can be psychologically harmful to any prisoner, with the nature and severity of the impact depending on the individual, the duration, and particular conditions (e.g., access to natural light, books, or radio). Psychological effects can include anxiety, depression, anger, cognitive disturbances, perceptual distortions, obsessive thoughts, paranoia, and psychosis.
    Pelican Bay’s prison has been a source of controversy in the state for some time. Last July, prisoners staged a three-week-long hunger strike to protest the conditions in the facility, helping to raise awareness across California about the negative effects of Secure Housing Units.
    Originally published on ThinkProgress

  78. Thorstein Veblen
    June 2, 2012 at 9:25 pm

    Anon. I’ll put it this way; for a thousand years, people were burned at the stake or otherwise tortured and executed by the church for disagreeing with the Ptolemic way of looking at the universe. Funny that it turned out he was 100% wrong, but with various tweaks and adjustments, his calculations still did a pretty good job of predicting astronomy for centuries. The church could not conceive of a universe in which humans, and the earth, were not the center.

    Thats a kind of certainty that I don’t share, nor wish to participate in. If you believe you fill your tank with rendered dinosaurs, more power to you. Honestly, the sky-god theory seems as believable.

    Perhaps I reacted to what I read as intolerance of other ways of looking at the world. Anyway, the last word on this is yours if you choose.

  79. tra
    June 2, 2012 at 11:44 pm

    Obviously petroleum is abiotic, the earth is flat and only 6,000 years old…and the moon is made of green cheese. And anyone who has the bad manners to point out the mountains of evidence to the contrary — well, they’re just being “intolerant of other ways of looking at the world.”

  80. 2 cents
    June 3, 2012 at 1:28 am

    And, since ‘solitary’ is being discussed so eloquently, don’t forget – FREE BRADLEY MANNING!

  81. Just Watchin
    June 3, 2012 at 8:31 am

    HANG BRADLEY MANNING !

  82. Dan
    June 3, 2012 at 10:15 am

    Medal for Bradley.
    Secrets are antithetical to democracy.

    “Secrecy is repugnant to a free and open society” JFK

  83. 2 cents
    June 3, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Bradley Manning = a true American HERO…….
    Risked his life FOR AMERICA’S SOUL! I would think you’d favor crucifixion. If, after torturing him (in solitary and who knows how many other ways) we want to kill him.
    How much has changed since Ellsberg became a hero for doing the same thing. Manning’s MORE of a hero!
    He exposed WAR CRIMES, not just we had a crooked Pres. who didn’t think the rules applied to him.
    FREE BRADLEY MANNING AND ALL POLITICAL PRISONERS IN AMERICA (and around the world!).

  84. Mitch
    June 3, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    Methane was deposited in a zone about five miles below the earth’s surface approximately 13,230 years ago, in an event known as The Great Fart. The fart was, of course, from the Flying Spaghetti Monster (hallowed be his name; thanks, tra). Astrophysicists with only a shallow understanding — record-keeping was scarce at the time — now call this The Big Bang. Some, ludicrously, date it many hundreds of thousands of years earlier.

    After years in a high pressure cavern, GF chemicals gradually coalesced into the coal, natural gas, and regular and premium gasoline grades we know today.

    Echoes of GF can be picked up as particularly smelly radio emissions coming from the direction of the Milky Way.

    Monsterist scholars have long argued about whether the fart represents a singular event or is part of a long series of digestive difficulties on FSM’s (hallowed be his name) part; the question is becoming of greater significance as we use up the remnants of the last (or only) GF.

    At Liberty University, scholars have been discussing whether a change in diet on the FSM’s (hallowed be his name) part might result in an unlimited supply of energy for the creation. More than 500 papers on the topic have been published in the main peer-reviewed monsterist journal, Proceedings of the National Academy of Pseudoscience. Of those, only 50 offer evidence supporting the dietist’s controversial theory, but many of these have only been published in the last decade, and support for dietism is growing.

  85. High Finance
    June 3, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    That makes about as much sense as anything else you have written Mitch.

  86. June 4, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Hey Anonymous! Why don’t you link to YOUR real ID? Talk about “Zero Credibility”

  87. tra
    June 4, 2012 at 8:31 pm

    “The fart was, of course, from the Flying Spaghetti Monster (hallowed be his name; thanks, tra)”

    Hallelujah — I see you have been Touched by His Noodly Appendage!

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