Home > Uncategorized > Lemmings just can’t stop; or, “part neufdyneuf plus one”

Lemmings just can’t stop; or, “part neufdyneuf plus one”

image regarding rape, from jobsanger.blogspot.com

Another  GOP leader explains the science of rape and pregnancy to us all.  This one’s a doctor.

How many more will it take before the GOP sends out the useful and easy-to-follow management decision  flowchart to the right?

http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/phil-gingrey-todd-akin-was-right.php

  1. January 11, 2013 at 10:30 am

    Really, have the individuals promoting this can of thought believe we are in the “Stone Age” where man did as they pleased?

    Part of the problem, comes from women within the GOP not standing up to these individuals making these types of remarks – I find it difficult to believe a woman of any party would agree with some of these comments.

  2. Hmm
    January 11, 2013 at 10:52 am

    Charles, you forget that the GOP includes right-wing Christians who believe women are subservient to men. These women are very serious about their role as second-class citizens. They embrace it because their holy book declares it.

  3. Just Watchin
    January 11, 2013 at 11:26 am

    And Joe Biden, speaking to a largely black crowd, saying ” they’re gonna put y’all back in chains” was a real mensa moment.

  4. Hmm
    January 11, 2013 at 11:28 am

    Removing legal voters from the voting rolls, those who predominantly traditional Hispanic and African-American names, is approaching that idea. Removing a person’s voice in his own government is a form of slavery.

  5. Anonymous
    January 11, 2013 at 11:48 am

    I wonder Mitch, does saying something so mean spirited, hateful and stupid like saying Republicans condone rape further useful conversation?

    Or does it simply make you look mean spirited, hateful and stupid?

  6. Mitch
    January 11, 2013 at 11:51 am

    #5,

    Read the papers. Don’t blame the messenger.

  7. Hmm
    January 11, 2013 at 11:53 am

    #5, please quote where Mitch said Republicans condone rape. It’s not in this thread, and if he did say something like that, I’m sure it was a bit more nuanced than your claim.

  8. Anonymous
    January 11, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Mitch :
    #5,
    Read the papers. Don’t blame the messenger.

    Thank you for answering my question. Everything else you say from this point forward is irrelevant.

  9. Anonymous
    January 11, 2013 at 11:57 am

    Hmm :
    #5, please quote where Mitch said Republicans condone rape. It’s not in this thread, and if he did say something like that, I’m sure it was a bit more nuanced than your claim.

    Read post #6 if you have any doubt. Then try thinking before posting in the future.

  10. Mitch
    January 11, 2013 at 12:04 pm

    #5,

    Perhaps your confusion is due to the fact that no Republican has yet been on a Sunday morning teevee show to utter the four word sentence “women love being raped.” If that’s your point, I understand.

    Perhaps this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversies_in_United_States_elections,_2012

    Here’s a useful fragment from the above:

    Roger Rivard: “Some girls rape easy”
    Wisconsin State Assembly member Roger Rivard became the subject of controversy in October 2012 due to comments he had made to The Chetek Alert in December 2011.[114] In the interview, Rivard was discussing the case of a high school senior who was being prosecuted for the alleged rape of a 14-year-old girl.[115] Rivard remarked that years ago, his father warned him that, “Some girls rape easy”.[116][117] Rivard stated in October 2012 to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the remark was being taken out-of-context and misquoted, and that what his father had told him was that, after agreeing to sex and becoming pregnant, some underage girls will claim it was not consensual.[114][118]

    And an interesting comment:

    In an opinion piece for the Wall Street Journal, Karl Rove, an American political consultant and policy advisor, credited “offensive rape comments” with “costing Republicans two Senate seats”.[131]

  11. That Man
    January 11, 2013 at 12:18 pm

    these theocrats are really destroying the republican name

  12. Anonymous
    January 11, 2013 at 1:49 pm

    Mitch :
    #5,
    Perhaps your confusion is due to the fact that no Republican has yet been on a Sunday morning teevee show to utter the four word sentence “women love being raped.” If that’s your point, I understand.
    Perhaps this will help: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_and_pregnancy_controversies_in_United_States_elections,_2012
    Here’s a useful fragment from the above:

    Roger Rivard: “Some girls rape easy”
    Wisconsin State Assembly member Roger Rivard became the subject of controversy in October 2012 due to comments he had made to The Chetek Alert in December 2011.[114] In the interview, Rivard was discussing the case of a high school senior who was being prosecuted for the alleged rape of a 14-year-old girl.[115] Rivard remarked that years ago, his father warned him that, “Some girls rape easy”.[116][117] Rivard stated in October 2012 to the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel that the remark was being taken out-of-context and misquoted, and that what his father had told him was that, after agreeing to sex and becoming pregnant, some underage girls will claim it was not consensual.[114][118]

    And an interesting comment:

    In an opinion piece for the Wall Street Journal, Karl Rove, an American political consultant and policy advisor, credited “offensive rape comments” with “costing Republicans two Senate seats”.[131]

    Quoting some idiot or two who happen to be idiots and then trying to use them to tar & feather the millions of Republicans in this country just makes you look more mean spirited, hateful and stupid than the two idiots you quoted.

    When you’re in a hole you should just stop digging.

  13. Mitch
    January 11, 2013 at 3:17 pm

    Anonymous #12,

    There’s a fairly extensive set of Republican idiots with good access to microphones and the press, as pretty much all the readers here know. It’s not just Akin.

    I don’t believe all Republicans condone rape — that’s a straw man that I doubt anyone believes — but I definitely believe we’ve all seen a pathetic display over the past several months of just how far towards excusing and minimizing rape many Republicans will go, and in public.

    If you are a Republican and you believe I have asserted that all Republicans condone rape, you have my apology and my suggestion you go to a reading comprehension class. It couldn’t hurt to take one on history as well.

    You can tell me to stop digging a non-existent hole, or you can stop playing with language and worry about your party imploding on itself because of its current disconnection to reality. I’d suggest the latter, but that’s your business.

  14. Just Watchin
    January 11, 2013 at 3:31 pm

    If we take the reading comprehension class, will the stuff that crazy Joe Biden comes up with make sense? If it does, that would be a really big f’ing deal!!!

  15. Anonymous
    January 11, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Anonymous :

    Quoting some idiot or two who happen to be idiots and then trying to use them to tar & feather the millions of Republicans in this country just makes you look more mean spirited, hateful and stupid than the two idiots you quoted.
    When you’re in a hole you should just stop digging.

    Maybe the millions of Republicans in this country should stop electing idiots then. Or putting them in charge of $300 million war chests to try get other idiots elected.

  16. Mitch
    January 11, 2013 at 4:07 pm

    I am in LOVE with Joe Biden, JW.

    But for your amusement: http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2013/01/joe-biden-frisky-senate.php

  17. January 11, 2013 at 5:51 pm

    Hmm :
    Charles, you forget that the GOP includes right-wing Christians who believe women are subservient to men. These women are very serious about their role as second-class citizens. They embrace it because their holy book declares it.

    It is still difficult to understand, especially coming from a doctor claiming:

    “And I’ve delivered lots of babies, and I know about these things. It is true. We tell infertile couples all the time that are having trouble conceiving because of the woman not ovulating, ‘Just relax. Drink a glass of wine. And don’t be so tense and uptight because all that adrenaline can cause you not to ovulate.’ So he was partially right wasn’t he? But the fact that a woman may have already ovulated 12 hours before she is raped, you’re not going to prevent a pregnancy there by a woman’s body shutting anything down because the horse has already left the barn, so to speak. And yet the media took that and tore it apart.”

    Definitely some one needs to pull his license!

    http://www.rollcall.com/news/gingrey_partly_defends_akins_legitimate_rape_comments-220685-1.html

  18. January 11, 2013 at 6:18 pm

    Are we going to discuss democrats and/or liberals tomorrow? S a m e question – how exactly does this aid our ailing society?

  19. January 11, 2013 at 6:54 pm

    Forest Queen :
    Are we going to discuss democrats and/or liberals tomorrow? S a m e question – how exactly does this aid our ailing society?

    Can’t help but love this Forest Queen gal!

  20. anonymous
    January 11, 2013 at 9:10 pm

    Mitch :
    Anonymous #12,
    There’s a fairly extensive set of Republican idiots with good access to microphones and the press, as pretty much all the readers here know. It’s not just Akin.
    I don’t believe all Republicans condone rape — that’s a straw man that I doubt anyone believes — but I definitely believe we’ve all seen a pathetic display over the past several months of just how far towards excusing and minimizing rape many Republicans will go, and in public.
    If you are a Republican and you believe I have asserted that all Republicans condone rape, you have my apology and my suggestion you go to a reading comprehension class. It couldn’t hurt to take one on history as well.
    You can tell me to stop digging a non-existent hole, or you can stop playing with language and worry about your party imploding on itself because of its current disconnection to reality. I’d suggest the latter, but that’s your business.

    Liar. You are the one who posted the words Republican and rape and shut up.

  21. Just Watchin
    January 12, 2013 at 5:59 am

    Have you heard this one?: Obama passes Bill Clinton in the hallway. He asks:” how is Hillary’s head?”. Bill responds :” well……she’s no Monica”.

  22. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 7:07 am

    Forest Queen :
    “Are we going to discuss democrats and/or liberals tomorrow? S a m e question – how exactly does this aid our ailing society?”

    You really don’t see how discussing the shortcomings of the two major political parties might be important to aiding our ailing society?

    Is it just that you think it’s more important to discuss your kooky conspiracy beliefs about gold-fringed flags, admiralty courts, and all the rest of your addled-minded claptrap?

    Sorry, but from time to time people prefer to discuss real events and verifiable facts that are based in reality, rather than your various colorful-but-meaningless hallucinations, delusions, and feverish nightmares.

  23. Montgomery Python
    January 12, 2013 at 7:51 am

    What if it turns out Forest Queen is a transvestite lumberjack? Just sayin’. . .

  24. Just Watchin
    January 12, 2013 at 7:54 am

    Forest Queen :Are we going to discuss democrats and/or liberals tomorrow? S a m e question – how exactly does this aid our ailing society?

    Queenie……liberals are never discussed on here. They are exhaulted, praised, congratulated, and slapped on the back.

  25. Anonytired
    January 12, 2013 at 8:32 am

    Anyone ever counted the number of comments complaining about liberals? Just Watching has put up more complaints about liberals all by himself than there are complaints about conservatives.

  26. notafan
    January 12, 2013 at 8:47 am

    Its called a circle jerk Silly bitch Mitch and the little lost boys.

  27. Just Watchin
    January 12, 2013 at 9:54 am

    Anonytired :Anyone ever counted the number of comments complaining about liberals? Just Watching has put up more complaints about liberals all by himself than there are complaints about conservatives.

    Well…..I counted up this thread alone. There were several comments that can’t be considered complaints of either party, but the tally was 8 anti-Republican and 4 anti-democrat. That even includes the Obama/Bill/Hillary story, which is actually a story from my Harry Reid “word on the street” source. But I love Slick Willie. He probably got more strange in the White House than Kennedy, and that’s saying something!!

  28. January 12, 2013 at 10:08 am

    A @22,
    When has it EVER made any difference when the peasants discuss the monarchy they live in?
    Beyond Coincidence:
    Sure, a car crash involving John Noveske could be a coincidence. It could also be a coincidence that NO VIDEO FOOTAGE HAS BEEN RELEASED FROM SANDY HOOK showing Adam Lanza carrying any rifle whatsoever.
    It might also be a coincidence that Dianne Feinstein just happened to have her detailed gun confiscation bill ready to release immediately following the Sandy Hook shooting. It might also be a coincidence that according to Google.com, THE UNITED WAY SANDY HOOK DONATION SUPPORT PAGE was created on December 11, 2011 – a full three days BEFORE the shooting took place. It could also be a coincidence that NBC News reported Adam Lanza’s AR-15 rifle WAS LEFT IN HIS CAR, and was never used in the shooting at all. It could be a coincidence that Facebook suspended or shut down the accounts of hundreds of prominent people who advocate the Second Amendment. And, it could be a coincidence that police radio recordings seem to indicate there were MULTIPLE SHOOTERS involved in Sandy Hook.
    But what are the odds of ALL if these coincidences existing simultaneously? Those odds are virtually zero. Because there are no coincidences.

  29. January 12, 2013 at 11:40 am

    Typo – The United Way Sandy Hook Donation Support Page was created December 11, 2012 (not 2011 -dah)

  30. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 1:03 pm

    “there are no coincidences.”

    What an asinine statement. The word “coincidence” is derived from the word “coincide.” Are you really claiming that two things cannot coincide without there being causation between the two?

    For example, just as I was reading your comment, my phone rang. Given the timing, and your comment that “there are no coincidences,” I would have to conclude that reading your comment caused my phone to ring, right? I guess you can believe that if you want, but for my part I’m quite sure that it was just a coincidence.

    Just because paranoid morons or cynical hoaxters / fear profiteers like Alex Jones endlessly repeat the phrase “there are no coincidences” doesn’t make it true. Common sense and everyday experience reveals that vast numbers of coincidences do indeed occur every day. Correlation does not equal causation — except in the minds of the severely paranoid and/or exceptionally weak-minded.

    As far as the gun-in-the-trunk issue, the fact is that there are scores of witnesses, including several teachers, and dozens of children, who saw Lanza use the assault rifle during the shooting. There are also mounds of physical evidence, including the spent ammunition shells, the bullets themselves, and the testimony of the coroners who examined the torn-apart bodies of the 20 young children , all of which establishes beyond a shadow of a doubt that most of the victims were killed with the assault rifle. In order for your conspiracy theory to be true, all those teachers, children, first responders, police officers, investigators and coroners would ALL have to be lying. That is just not even remotely plausible.

    Yes, there was one initial report from NBC stating that the assault rifle was in the trunk of the car. But initial reports are often inaccurate in these sorts of situations, where the media is desperate to get information out there as fast as possible, and details sometimes get confused (it turns out that the gun found in the trunk of the car was a shotgun). Initial TV reports also inaccurately identified the shooter with his brother’s name, and other initial reports that stated that the brother had been found lurking in the woods near the school, but both of these were soon corrected when the brother turned out to be in New Jersey, nowhere near the site of the shooting.

    How sad to see pathetic individuals like yourself attempting to use the tragic deaths of innocent children to advance your paranoid, critical-thinking-free, wild-haired conspiracy nonsense. If I thought you were someone who was fully sane and mentally competent and just cynically pushing this wingnut stuff in order to enrich yourself like Alex Jones does, I would say “shame on you,” but since in your writings you show so many clear indications of mental illness and /or diminished mental capacity, I just pity you and hope that someday you will get the help you need to escape from your hellish world of paranoid delusions and convoluted conspiratorial nightmares.

  31. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 1:13 pm

    Here’s the best concise explanation I have seen for why people like Forest Queen feel compelled to believe in far-out conspiracy theories for which there is little to no actual evidence:

    Conspiracy theories would seem to stem from the desire of the people advancing them…to feel important by being the purveyors of secret knowledge. If one “knows” that the Apollo 11 moon landing was filmed in a studio or that Barack Obama is really a space alien, then one is able to pump up an ego that otherwise has deficiencies….But conspiracy nuts…are also parasites, glomming on to public tragedies and using them for their own ends.

    http://voices.yahoo.com/dismayingly-sandy-hook-elementary-conspiracy-theories-11968291.html

  32. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    I suspect Forest Queen is immune to any facts that don’t support her bizarre, obsessive beliefs, but if not, she might benefit from reading this piece and following up on the links contained therein:

    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/12/newtown-shooting-conspiracy-theories/60126/

  33. Just Watchin
    January 12, 2013 at 3:50 pm

    Anonymous :
    I suspect Forest Queen is immune to any facts that don’t support her bizarre, obsessive beliefs, but if not, she might benefit from reading this piece and following up on the links contained therein:
    http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/12/newtown-shooting-conspiracy-theories/60126/

    Your first mistake was to take Forest Queen serious.

  34. January 12, 2013 at 7:06 pm

    @30, 31, 32, and 33,
    Never rejoice in the suffering of the part whom you perceive as an opponent, for that part is but yourself showing you often a misguided choice. Is it possible that 30, 31, 32, and 33 do not have an IQ over room temperature? Do you wish to continue unfettered oxygen consumption?
    And as things begin to spin out of control, remember this:
    “All politics in this country now is just dress rehearsal for civil war.” – Billy Beck, August 2009.

    From MamaLiberty over on War on Guns:
    Here’s an idea . . If nobody wants a civil disturbance, why in the heck don’t they quit disturbing us?

    During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King’s tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists. They were in turn actively supported by 10% of the population. In addition to these revolutionaries were perhaps another 20% who favored their cause but did little or nothing to support it. Another one-third of the population sided with the King (by the end of the war there were actually more Americans fighting FOR the King than there were in the field against him), and the final third took no side, blew with the wind and took what came.

    And this posted today:
    Kentucky Sheriff to Obama: No Gun Control in My County

    [Outstanding!]

    “My office will not comply with any federal action which violates the United States Constitution or the Kentucky Constitution which I swore to uphold.”

    And far from worrying about repercussions for doing this, Peyman sees the gun control push as a sign of weakness that will crumble in the face of real opposition. “Just a few of us have to be willing to stand up to political opposition putting our people at risk. The other side will back down.”

    Now that is what I’m talkin’ about. But then, we didn’t happen to elect a Sheriff who is an Oath Keeper.

  35. January 12, 2013 at 7:58 pm

    DOCTORS
    (A) The number of physicians in America is 700,000.
    (B) Accidental deaths caused by Physicians Per Year are 120,000.
    (C) Accidental deaths per physician is 0.171.
    Statistics courtesy of U.S. Dept of Health and Human Services.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Now think about this:
    GUNS
    (A) The number of gun owners in America is 80,00,000 (Yes, that’s 80 million).
    (B) The number of accidental gun deaths, per year, all age groups, is 1,500.
    (C) The number of accidental deaths per gun owner is .0000188.
    Statistics courtesy of the FBI.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

    So, statistically, doctors are approximately 9,000 times more dangerous than gun owners.
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Remember, ‘Guns don’t kill people, doctors do.’
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Fact: NOT EVERYONE HAS A GUN, BUT Almost everyone has a doctor. This means you are over 9,000 times more likely to be killed by a doctor as by a gun owner!!!
    Please alert your friends to this alarming threat. We Must Ban Doctors Before this gets completely out of hand!!!
    >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Out of concern for the public at large, statistics are withheld on Lawyers – for fear the shock- wave would cause People to panic and seek medical attention!

  36. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 9:08 pm

    Unable to defend her ridiculous and offensive Sandy Hook Conspiracy Crapola, the Forest Klown just switches to some other irrelevant wingnuttery. Not surprising, and only faintly amusing, but, well, there you have it.

  37. January 13, 2013 at 7:52 am

    Bootlicker,
    You can be right! There are coincidences – there ya go. You win!

    Now what exactly is it you’re so defensive about? The clean air, the pristeen water, the unpolluted soil, the GMO Franken Food, the disappearing milk from our shelves, the military training going on above us, or is it the obscene amounts stolen from us by deceit, fraud, and lies? Perhaps it’s the 14,600 recorded wars over the past 5,000 years that you cling to and [in your ignorance], support — you and me, us and them, the enemy!!! Do you, Anon, really think you’re going to step into the New Age wearing those shackles?

    “Do the real owners, as the Late George Carlin coined it, seriously think they can keep censoring us, and silencing the truth for ever and ever?” What do you suppose he was talking about Anon?

  38. Just Watchin
    January 13, 2013 at 9:17 am

    Forest Queen :Bootlicker,You can be right! There are coincidences – there ya go. You win!
    Now what exactly is it you’re so defensive about? The clean air, the pristeen water, the unpolluted soil, the GMO Franken Food, the disappearing milk from our shelves, the military training going on above us, or is it the obscene amounts stolen from us by deceit, fraud, and lies? Perhaps it’s the 14,600 recorded wars over the past 5,000 years that you cling to and [in your ignorance], support — you and me, us and them, the enemy!!! Do you, Anon, really think you’re going to step into the New Age wearing those shackles?
    “Do the real owners, as the Late George Carlin coined it, seriously think they can keep censoring us, and silencing the truth for ever and ever?” What do you suppose he was talking about Anon?

    Personally…..it’s the disappearing milk……

  39. HUUFC
    January 13, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Thank goodness I bought a box of the white gold at COSTCO yesterday. Should I freeze it until it increases in value?

  40. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 11:12 am

    Given how passionately Forest Queen defends gun rights, I’m thinking she probably owns one. Bit of a scary thought.

  41. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 1:10 pm

    In a previous thread F.Q. said that she did indeed own a gun, but that she didn’t even know where it was. She seemed to think that was a good way of expressing that she wasn’t obsessed with guns — and maybe it was — but as another commenter pointed out, it is extremely irresponsible to keep firearms lying around “somewhere” and not even knowing where.

  42. Anonymous
    January 14, 2013 at 4:34 pm

    Anonymous :
    In a previous thread F.Q. said that she did indeed own a gun, but that she didn’t even know where it was. She seemed to think that was a good way of expressing that she wasn’t obsessed with guns — and maybe it was — but as another commenter pointed out, it is extremely irresponsible to keep firearms lying around “somewhere” and not even knowing where.

    When have you ever known a liberal to be responsible?

  43. Kinichi Matsu
    January 14, 2013 at 11:00 pm

    Canadians own as many guns per capita, if not more than U.S. citizens. Yet their statistics for violent and accidental deaths are a fraction of ours.

    If we can’t handle our toys they need to be highly regulated.

    In the end, it’s all the rest of our toys (“freedoms”) that could destroy the planet’s ability to support human life.

    Each of those 10-day junkets to slurp Sardines in Spain requires 2,000 pounds of jet-fuel per person round-trip, condemning 2 billion people to hack their forests for cooking fuel.

    In a rational world, your “freedoms” should end where other’s begin.

  44. Mitch
    January 15, 2013 at 6:54 am

    KM,

    You’ve got it exactly. Even if it were true that America were still a functional democracy, it’s only citizens that get to vote. From the point of view of the planet, the way in which the typical American uses resources is unsustainable. But that viewpoint is going to find it hard to win an American election, because the wealth of America is largely based on assumptions of unlimited resources.

    When I was in the fifth grade in the 1960s, I think the unit on American history blathered on about the “frontier,” and how all that “empty land” affected the American viewpoint.

    Politics is unlikely to resolve the situation, but physics will. That’s the tragedy.

  45. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 6:57 am

    Let me guess here Mitch, you have never taken your time driving out the midwest have you?

    And your point is that to be a functional democracy we have to let non citizens vote?

  46. Mitch
    January 15, 2013 at 7:16 am

    No, Anonymous, that’s not my point. I think my point is easily understandable.

  47. Plain Jane
    January 15, 2013 at 7:22 am

    #45 does demonstrate one aspect of our biggest problem though, Mitch. A functional democracy requires an educated and informed populace.

  48. Mitch
    January 15, 2013 at 7:57 am

    It’s only recently, PJ, in the last few years, that I’ve finally understood that large numbers of people really believe in the sky-daddy God without treating it as metaphor. I mean, really believe that there’s a fellow somewhere who’s hard at work listening when you pray, who is concerned with your sex life and all the precious blastulas, and who is able to suspend the laws of physics at will. Not just that prayer matters, or that good intentions somehow cause good outcomes, or anything like that. Daddy — listening. Clergy — speaking on his behalf.

    I could never imagine that people capable of feeding themselves or driving a car really believed that. My mistake. But if that’s the level of, say, 10 or 20% of Americans, we’re in more trouble than I’d even imagined.

  49. HUUFC
    January 15, 2013 at 9:48 am

    The United States of America is not a democracy, it is a Republic. Once again, there is no right to vote in the Constitution, the rules for voting were left up to the states under the 10th amendment. Go see the movie “Lincoln” and listen to Representative Thaddeus Stevens discussing the issue of the people with President Lincoln. (Yes I know they are actors but very good ones.)

  50. Smart 5th Grader
    January 15, 2013 at 10:35 am

    “educated and informed populace”
    The American people are bombarded daily with “information” from commercials, commentary, “news”, government pronouncements and law, corporate information, “education” from schools, and 1001 channels of cable television. People do not lack for “information” nor have the powers that be left people “uneducated”. People are well educated on the virtues of selfishness, consumerism, and American Exceptionalism. People need critical thinking skills much more than more “information”. Critical thinking skills will lead to the pursuit of relevant information.

  51. Critical thinker
    January 15, 2013 at 12:25 pm

    Mitch :
    It’s only recently, PJ, in the last few years, that I’ve finally understood that large numbers of people really believe in the sky-daddy God without treating it as metaphor. I mean, really believe that there’s a fellow somewhere who’s hard at work listening when you pray, who is concerned with your sex life and all the precious blastulas, and who is able to suspend the laws of physics at will. Not just that prayer matters, or that good intentions somehow cause good outcomes, or anything like that. Daddy — listening. Clergy — speaking on his behalf.
    I could never imagine that people capable of feeding themselves or driving a car really believed that. My mistake. But if that’s the level of, say, 10 or 20% of Americans, we’re in more trouble than I’d even imagined.

    Maybe you, as an atheist, are as close minded as you claim the believers are?

  52. Mitch
    January 15, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Critical thinker,

    That’s certainly possible. Do you feel that people who don’t believe in Santa Claus are close minded? What about those that don’t believe in Zeus (another widely-believed-in God, though his believers generally lived in a different era)?

    Open-mindedness doesn’t necessarily mean believing things for which you find no evidence. It means being open to new evidence at all times.

    When someone brings new evidence for the existence of a sky-daddy God, I’ll be happy to consider it, just as I would consider any new evidence for Zeus or, for that matter, Santa. I think of that as open-minded.

    Open-mindedness certainly doesn’t mean believing what everyone around you believes because “if everyone believes it, they must be right.” That’s something entirely different, and I’m not sure what it’s called.

  53. Plain Jane
    January 15, 2013 at 12:37 pm

    I don’t think “Critical Thinker” knows what critical thinking is.

  54. January 15, 2013 at 1:01 pm

    Anon @ 40, 41 and @42 YOU label me as a liberal. Hmmm.
    And Kanichi Matsu’s – “If we can’t control our toys they need to be highly regulated.”

    To complete the government argument, Federal force must be the single ultimate arbiter, decider, and enforcer of public safety and protection. No one else can be trusted to do the job. This is, under any label/name Facism. Rigged, promoted, staged, asserted, levied, stolen, and killed for, when necessary.

    In 1969, Karl Hess, a former speech-writer, wrote this:
    “It must be recognized that there now exists in this land of liberty virtually every institution of State power necessary to totalitarianism, with the possible exception of a national police force.”

    If good men and women of every skin color came to the aid of their country, by standing together against criminals of every stripe, by declaring their own right to bear arms, this would be a better place.

    It won’t be what the Corporate Federal Government wants – it won’t be what great numbers of pussified brainwashed Citizens want. That is called a clue. It’s a clue about where you should stand.

    In my heart, no, I don’t think that guns are what it’s all about. Nevertheless, ‘subjects’ are unarmed.

  55. January 15, 2013 at 1:11 pm

    Kinichi Matsu,
    As per the film ‘Sicko,’ and having friends in Canada, they do not lock their doors. Could it be that the Canadians aren’t spoon-fed fear 24/7? False evidence appearing real.

    Let the corps fight the corps . . .dead against dead . . . Not the living against the dead, or the living against the living.

  56. Mitch
    January 15, 2013 at 1:32 pm

    FQ,

    Do you feel that there are any valid reasons to cede some of your liberty to a state? You know, “provide for the common defense,” that sort of thing? Or do you feel everyone should just defend their own home, and if the country gets invaded, the people will just fight back ad hoc? Real question.

  57. January 15, 2013 at 2:14 pm

    I’d say no. The State is always society’s enemy. The State has no power of its own, only what the people grant it. The State has no money of its own, only what the people give it.
    Fed v State – whether it’s marijuana, guns, or forced vaccinations, I’d desire that we the people come together and decide how to handle the Levithan coming at us. I consider we the people to be the true state. Sorry, Corporate Public Servants just aren’t capable of finding the correct path. Just defend my/our own homes? – heaven’s no! We’re going to have to embrace each other and get past our petty-programmed differences.
    Posse Comitatus – “power to the county” – Where the Feds. and State bow down to the authority of the Sheriff. He’s our highest elected official. Would I stand armed beside him – sure, IF he was an oath-keeper.

  58. Just Watchin
    January 15, 2013 at 2:34 pm

    Plain Jane :I don’t think “Critical Thinker” knows what critical thinking is.

    I thought that since you got out of rehab BJ, you were more civil. I guess I was wrong.

  59. January 15, 2013 at 2:45 pm

    From Sheriff Richard Mack (ret):
    Sheriff Denny Peyman of Jackson County, Kentucky, was on Fox News recently vowing to protect his citizens from any unconstitutional executive order that would take away our second amendment rights. We need more sheriffs like Denny Peyman that will protect our Constitution and our Republic. In the coming days, I will challenge every county sheriff in this country to stand with me, and those like Sheriff Peyman, to stand up against government encroachment on our right to bear arms. I encourage those of you who love freedom to contact your local sheriff and demand they take a stand!

  60. Mitch
    January 15, 2013 at 3:13 pm

    FQ,

    Hobbes never intended the Leviathan to be a slur — the idea is that people recognize that individuals can be safer if they all cede certain powers to the state. He sensibly pointed out that people will disagree about where the greatest good lies, but can agree that dying a violent death is bad, and the state can prevent that and enforce basic rights for everyone.

    You refer to marijuana, guns, and forced vaccinations. I agree the state is abusive when it attempts to prevent people from growing pot. But I can see extremely good reasons why a state might want to regulate guns among the population, and how that can benefit people.

    I’m not sure “forced vaccinations” exist in the US, but the justification for them would be that all are harmed by epidemics, and unless a large percentage of the population agrees to vaccination, all are subject to the risk of disastrous epidemics of disease. How would you feel if your child died because of an epidemic that need never happen if widespread vaccination had taken place against the microorganism that caused the epidemic?

    The idea that people are entitled to unlimited guns to defend themselves against the Leviathan is understandable if you don’t think the Leviathan is an important thing in society. I think it is, because the alternative would be rule by whichever group of people assembled the most guns for themselves, and I doubt that would be the most benevolent group of folks around.

    More practically, though, the United States military is always going to out-gun any collection of individuals. So keeping guns to defend yourself against the state seems ridiculous to me. You can’t afford a tank or even a single cruise missile; the state can, and your assault weapon is not going to be much use against either.

  61. Dan
    January 15, 2013 at 3:23 pm

    Sheesh the bankers stole our collective wealth
    while the populace was armed to the teeth.

    Armed with weapons not education, sadly.

  62. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Just Watchin :

    Plain Jane :I don’t think “Critical Thinker” knows what critical thinking is.

    I thought that since you got out of rehab BJ, you were more civil. I guess I was wrong.

    I thought that a guy who had figured out how to not pay taxes would be less stressed and thus more civil. I guess I overestimate the psychological benefits of gaming the system… or freeloading.

  63. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 3:30 pm

    I nominate Dan at #61 for comment of the day.

  64. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    RE: Comments #61 and #63:
    All wisdom can be found in folk music,
    to whit:
    The song “Pretty Boy Floyd”
    which includes these immortal lines:

    ” … As through this world you ramble, You’ll see lots of funny men.
    Some will rob you with a six-gun ~ and some with a fountain pen.”

  65. HUUFC
    January 15, 2013 at 4:30 pm

    With regard to gun control, if you don’t like the second amendment on the Constitution, change it. The method for doing so is in the document itself. Too bad the community organizer in chief could care less about what’s in it, he is going to fundamentally transform the United States of America. And he’s just getting started.

  66. Dan
    January 15, 2013 at 5:08 pm

    #65
    Why is it that when I read gun-toters
    against our president I hear racist?

    Is it that
    your premise is baseless?

  67. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    HUUFC :
    With regard to gun control, if you don’t like the second amendment on the Constitution, change it. The method for doing so is in the document itself. Too bad the community organizer in chief could care less about what’s in it, he is going to fundamentally transform the United States of America. And he’s just getting started.

    With regard to gun control, HUUFC, how do you interpret the first two phrases of the Second Amendment? If we’re going to play originalist, shouldn’t the right to bear arms be restricted to those in a “militia” according to the common understanding of that term in 1789?

  68. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 5:21 pm

    Why not take a quick look at the following list of people and tell me whether to you they represent members of a “well-regulated militia”?

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/25/1173770/-What-IS-a-well-regulated-militia

  69. HUUFC
    January 15, 2013 at 7:31 pm

    Why they are crazy people, crazy people with guns, crazy people that should have been locked up, crazy people that the ACLU refused to be allowed to be locked up in the state of Connecticut.
    I also read the entire second amendment, you know, the annoying part of it that states “…the right of the people…” that part sounds important to me, maybe not to you and certainly not to the President and Vice President.

    BTW #66 Huh?

  70. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 7:50 pm

    If you agree that they should be locked up, then I assume you agree that they shouldn’t be allowed access to firearms.

    If they shouldn’t be allowed access to firearms, then there is no valid argument against a mental health background check prior to owning a firearm. Unless we are to suppose that every mentally ill person would be recognized, diagnosed and committed if it weren’t for that pesky ACLU.

    And please don’t look solely to the text of the Second Amendment itself. The Bill of Rights is not absolute. The First Amendment doesn’t qualify the freedom of speech, but we don’t allow people to yell “Fire” in a crowded theater; it doesn’t limit the freedom of the press, but we don’t allow newspapers to print things that put national security at risk. It doesn’t limit exercise of religion, but we don’t allow people to perform human sacrifice no matter how sincere their religious belief.

  71. January 15, 2013 at 11:49 pm

    Mitch,
    I meant leviathan by definition – a sea monster, a totalitarian government having a vast bureaucracy, something large or formidable. As in . . .the theory of the Constitution, the gross violation of rights, show that compelling states to submit to a federal Leviathan is not the path to liberty.
    We grant authority. Power remains with the people.
    You can see why a State might want to regulate guns, me too – I MEAN, what doesn’t the State wants to regulate? Do you have some idea of a maximum number of so-called laws to be passed that will somehow magically correct society’s ills? “That government is best which governs the least, because its people discipline themselves.” Jefferson. What we don’t need is more bull shit ‘legal’ words-on-paper espousing how to live our lives. Most accept being told when to breathe and when to blink, so much easier than figuring it out yourself. I just don’t happen to be one of those people. Without becoming familiarized with the habits and practice of self-government . . . the political vessel is all sail and no ballast.” Jefferson.
    Yes, forced vaccination has been done in three States -Texas, Colorado, and the first one was Maine or Mass. How would I feel if my child died because of not receiving a toxic injection? I’m just not going into debate here with the uninformed.
    And like I said, I don’t think guns are what it’s about, but that doesn’t change our right to have them.
    “. . . the alternative would be rule by which ever group assembled the most guns . . ” Jeeze again Mitch. Archaeologists have dug down 11,000 years and found no weapons or barricades. Our natural state is peace and harmony, but we’ve been fooled into a fictional belief system that is, thankfully, rotting from within.

  72. January 15, 2013 at 11:53 pm

    I second #63 – who nominated #61 as best for the day.

  73. Just Watchin
    January 16, 2013 at 6:35 am

    Anonymous :

    Just Watchin :

    Plain Jane :I don’t think “Critical Thinker” knows what critical thinking is.

    I thought that since you got out of rehab BJ, you were more civil. I guess I was wrong.

    I thought that a guy who had figured out how to not pay taxes would be less stressed and thus more civil. I guess I overestimate the psychological benefits of gaming the system… or freeloading.

    Anon no name….. I realize that by living off the government, you would have no need to learn about investing or money management. But maybe your mother could explain what a Roth IRA can do for you when you begin drawing it down.

  74. Mitch
    January 16, 2013 at 7:30 am

    FQ,

    Here’s one of the many, many articles suggesting that violence has been present throughout prehistory: http://blogs.sciencemag.org/sciencevoices/2012/05/violence-is-an-ancient-behavio.html

    Steven Pinker’s “The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined,” asserts that the present day is actually the least violent time in humanity’s development. (I find his argument hard to believe, but he brings a ton of data to the table.)

  75. Anonymous
    January 16, 2013 at 9:57 am

    Just Watchin :

    Anon no name….. I realize that by living off the government, you would have no need to learn about investing or money management. But maybe your mother could explain what a Roth IRA can do for you when you begin drawing it down.

    I’ve worked continuously since age 16. Worked my way through college and grad school, got my doctorate a few months ago. My wife and I aren’t rich enough to dodge taxes like you, but we do have decent investments that I keep an eye on. You’d be amazed how much you can learn just from reading the Economist.

    You know what the funniest thing is about trolls like you? It’s your attempts to pretend that you have actual legitimate ideas, but utterly failing to defend them at any point whatsoever. If you were to actually have the guts to debate most anyone on this site instead of just throwing stupid insults around, you’d be exposed in a few exchanges at most.

    So take your comment and shove it right up your grumpy, intellectually-bankrupt ass.

  76. January 16, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Mitch,
    In the 1600’s there are 85 recorded wars, in the 1700’s – 86, 1800’s – 252, and the 1900’s 302 (Wikipedia). To suggest that there’s any slowing effect there, is, well, nuts. The 20th century was the worst blood bath in recorded history – and all for the gangster banksters – as they fund both sides. Do you really think that the young go off to war knowing this?

    http://www.mauricecotterell.com/ I’ve read several of his books and have listened to several of his interviews. He knows, by direct experience, what he’s talking about. This link isn’t going to be much ‘proof’ – unless you read his books. Since we’re such violent creatures in your perspective, for now we’ll have to agree to disagree.

  77. Mitch
    January 16, 2013 at 12:50 pm

    I know Pinker is swimming against the conventional wisdom. You might be interested in Peter Singer’s (no slouch himself) NYT review of Pinker’s book, in which he says “Pinker convincingly demonstrates that there has been a dramatic decline in violence, and he is persuasive about the causes of that decline.”

    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/10/09/books/review/the-better-angels-of-our-nature-by-steven-pinker-book-review.html?rss

  78. Just Watchin
    January 16, 2013 at 3:02 pm

    Anonymous :

    Just Watchin :
    Anon no name….. I realize that by living off the government, you would have no need to learn about investing or money management. But maybe your mother could explain what a Roth IRA can do for you when you begin drawing it down.

    I’ve worked continuously since age 16. Worked my way through college and grad school, got my doctorate a few months ago. My wife and I aren’t rich enough to dodge taxes like you, but we do have decent investments that I keep an eye on. You’d be amazed how much you can learn just from reading the Economist.
    You know what the funniest thing is about trolls like you? It’s your attempts to pretend that you have actual legitimate ideas, but utterly failing to defend them at any point whatsoever. If you were to actually have the guts to debate most anyone on this site instead of just throwing stupid insults around, you’d be exposed in a few exchanges at most.
    So take your comment and shove it right up your grumpy, intellectually-bankrupt ass.

    Do you really expect anyone to believe that you have a doctorate while you are in a pissing match , on a blog, with what you describe as a “troll”. As for your education, I’m guessing that tax payers paid for most of your education, and as a tax payer, all I can say is…..you’re welcome.

  79. Anonymous
    January 16, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Just Watchin :

    Do you really expect anyone to believe that you have a doctorate while you are in a pissing match , on a blog, with what you describe as a “troll”. As for your education, I’m guessing that tax payers paid for most of your education, and as a tax payer, all I can say is…..you’re welcome.

    If I were trying to impress anyone, I’d pick a name. Whether you believe me or not matters little since everything I said is true. Including the part about you being full of insults but short on ideas. You ought to change your name to “All Hat and No Cattle.”

    And no, my education wasn’t subsidized by anyone. Didn’t have my parents to borrow from, as your failed candidate Mittens suggested, so I’ve got some loans to pay off that I consolidated a few years back at a very nice rate. Furthermore, you should be more accurate — refer to yourself as a “former taxpayer.”

  80. Just Watchin
    January 16, 2013 at 3:32 pm

    Anon…..I’d suggest the name “Dr. No Name”. Besides…..still having loans to pay off at your age should be an embarrassment. And I’ll bet those loans were government subsidized, AKA, tax payer subsidized. Again……you’re welcome.

  81. Anonymous
    January 16, 2013 at 3:49 pm

    Just Evading Taxes — nope, you have to demonstrate financial need to get one of those subsidized loans. Having the education level that you apparently do, I’m not surprised you don’t understand.

  82. January 18, 2013 at 9:12 am

    Mitch,
    While we were discussing how many wars here and there, and when, and how many, I came across the following:

    Democide – is a term revived and redefined by the political scientist R. J. Rummel as “the murder of any person or people by a government including genocide, politicide, and mass murder.” Rummel created the term as an extended concept to include forms of government murder that are not covered by the term genocide, and it has become accepted by other scholars. In the 20th century, democide passed war as the leading cause of non-natural death (according to Rummel).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democide

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