Home > Uncategorized > Draft National Climate Assessment released

Draft National Climate Assessment released

http://ncadac.globalchange.gov/

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/jan/11/climate-change-america-hotter-drier-disaster

The report is huge, but its 37 page section on the Pacific Northwest is here: http://ncadac.globalchange.gov/download/NCAJan11-2013-publicreviewdraft-chap21-northwest.pdf

The report begins with a “letter to the American people”:

nca1nca2

  1. Dan
    January 12, 2013 at 8:49 am

    In Humboldt County we ready our shoreline by removing
    vegetation and encouraging erosion. Base Flood Elevation,
    (BFE) after the fore dune blowing-out
    west of the Manila Community Center is now MINUS
    twelve to fifteen feet.
    When the ocean decides to get mean, salt-water intrusion
    into our deflation-plane pocket marshes will turn it all
    into wasteland. Backwards as it gets.

    You cannot simultaneously remove vegetation and prepare
    for relative sea-level rise.

  2. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 9:45 am

    We’re all going to DIE!

  3. Anonymous
    January 12, 2013 at 12:23 pm

    Dan said: “You cannot simultaneously remove vegetation and prepare
    for relative sea-level rise.”

    You can if the removed non-native vegetation is replaced with reintroduced native vegetation. In the short term it may look ugly and denuded, but if the revegetation is successful, it should be just as good from a sea-level point of view, and better from a native vegetation point of view.

  4. Dan
    January 12, 2013 at 4:35 pm

    Horse poo.
    “You can if the removed non-native vegetation is replaced with reintroduced native vegetation. In the short term it may look ugly and denuded, but if the revegetation is successful, it should be just as good from a sea-level point of view, and better from a native vegetation point of view.” #3

    It took Manila over six decades to collect those sands and create that fore dune that provides tsuname relief and protection for our pocket-marshes. It was thriving and growing both west and north until vegetation was ripped from it so carelessly- it has now blown-out and we have lost Base Flood Elevation, now threatening our fresh-water marshes.
    You are in a fantasy world if you believe you can rip out Amophylla, replace it with Leymus and not lose Base Flood Elevation.

    A fine example of why it is required to have a Qualified Coastal Engineer before one
    messes with the shoreline.

    Last I checked the nearest Qualified Coastal Engineer is in San Francisco.

  5. Ponder Z
    January 12, 2013 at 9:29 pm

    You are being lied to. This report is telling a lie, and you believe it because the weather changes? So, it must be true. You went to a university and believed all that was said to you. You notice the examples put forth. It must be true. Let me give you a hint form the Bullshit Detector program in my PC. If you hear these lines, put on your boots.
    In the future
    Scientist now find
    record rates
    heaviest rain to date
    extreme weather
    super storm
    rapidly changing
    shoreline erosion
    melting ice fields

    You see, simple words called “adjectives” help the liar extenuate his statement. Oooow, so scary. Now you may believe this if you are foolish, and you also think I am a flat earth kook, but everyone knows if the earth was flat, all the water would run off the edge.

  6. Kinichi Matsu
    January 12, 2013 at 9:42 pm

    Since when have the local ideologues in power ever heeded the advice of experts?

    Eureka spent tens of thousands to hire non-partisan professionals to tell them what “those damn liberals” were saying all along: Rural economies cannot sustain unlimited numbers of poverty-wage jobs.

    Professional gibberish like that never sees the light of day, it could put a serious kink in a collapsing imperial economy busy draining the Treasury and turning on its own people…just like all the previous empires.

    Nothing is being allowed to conflict with the failed, irrational, environment-killing “free-market” ideology held by the highest bidders controlling national and local elections, ie, “go ahead and build another huge low-wage hotel in Eureka, a town bleeding empty businesses and abandoned, dilapidated, underutilized hotels”.

    All along, republicans have been quietly embracing global-warming, it might provide their final solution to “drowning government in a bathtub”….look at all the Armageddon movies they’ve been making…loaded with U.S. military hardware.

    Meanwhile, other industrialized nations are decades ahead in building their green economies. (Hope for Obama rediscovering FDR’s policies is turning out like Bush’s search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq).

  7. Plain Jane
    January 13, 2013 at 7:18 am

    Ponderz is as delusional in his denial as FQ is in her conspiracies.

  8. Mitch
    January 13, 2013 at 7:26 am

    One word, Ponder. Dikes.

  9. Dan
    January 13, 2013 at 8:49 am

    To Anonymous #3

    This is a serious misunderstanding of dune processes and reveals specie goals reliant on habitats that will not be available in the future. This in turn, undermines our conservation strategy.
    Until we have answers to how we are to treat our V-Zones and AO-Zones (FEMA/NOAA) and how that will effect our FIRM (Flood Insurance Rate Maps) and strategy for wildlife, let us stop removing vegetation and concentrate on re-stabilizing the landscapes that we have depleted.

    Our zoning in Manila is NR (Natural Resources) and Wildlife.
    Manila’s natural resource is WETLANDS. Vegetation removal has drained our wetlands!
    Wildlife? Slaughtered.

    All done with WETLAND ENHANCEMENT/WILDLIFE monies.

    Question is who is on the ‘hook’ legally for replacement of wetland function?
    Eventually the state or feds will be looking for billing info.

  10. January 13, 2013 at 9:35 am

    When we are faced with global problems like climate change, simplistic either/or models which seem effective as political tools fail miserably in helping us make rational decisions.

    If we instead say something like “there is 95% chance of significant warming in the next 50 years” we can make better and more rational decisions. We don’t need to argue about whether climate change is certain or not.

    The truth is that climate change is not certain. There is truth in the notion that Earth has in the past and will in the future experience cycles of warming and cooling quite independent of man’s influence. These cycles are often of long duration and are of a complexity that may cancel each other’s effects or amplify them in resonant cycles. We can search for these cycles (some are obvious like the sunspot cycle) but there is little we can do about them.

    However global temperatures are rising. Why? Real scientists, applying the scientific method, postulated that mankinds “burning” stuff was carbon loading the atmosphere and creating a greenhouse effect. Numerous studies were done to confirm or discredit the hypothesis. (The scientific method.) The vast majority correlated the carbon loading effect with temperature rise.

    You don’t need to take this on faith. You just need to accept that there is a 95% chance that it is true, and then you can make rational decisions.

    Because there are six billion of us. We have grown exponentially over the last 2,000 blinks of Mother Earth’s eyes. In a narrow range of temperatures. Give or take the Great Famine of 1315 or two. There is no guarantee that if temperatures go up 2 degrees centigrade that a billion of us won’t starve. There is fear of a new dust bowl in the central plains of the United States.

    Imagine that you are sitting on a narrow railroad trestle 200 ft over the Rogue River. Oops along comes a freight train @ 45 mph. Now you can see and hear the oncoming engineer franically braking and blowing his horn. You calculate that there is a 95% chance of getting hit and crushed before the train can stop. Jumping (cutting back on burning) seems desperate but there you go. Make a rational decision.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  11. Mitch
    January 13, 2013 at 9:41 am

    Interesting metaphor.

    I think a more appropriate one might be that you are on tracks that are only one foot above the ground, but you’ve discovered that someone spilled nickels all over. You are busy picking up spilled nickels from the tracks because they are somewhat more plentiful on the tracks than four feet to the side. The question is: do you switch to picking up the nickels four feet away, or do you decide to hope the train isn’t for real, and the libtard scientists are fooling you?

  12. Ponder Z
    January 13, 2013 at 10:01 am

    Ohh Bill, there you go with “fear” again. It is a proven fact that the sun is causing a warming trend on earth, again. It has happened before too. But if you want to tax me to pay for carbon credits, to fund this government redistribution of wealth, I say no! Man made climate change is a scam. You have a 99% chance of being a sucker.

    Dikes? on bikes? What, Mitch are you blathering about now? That we use dikes to divert water flow? That, Louisiana and Holland have been holding back the sea for over a hundred years. Long before carbon credit scammers where born? Sea levels have been rising for the last 10,000 years. Just slowing to the current rate of 3mm/ year in the last 4000 years. Why are you suckers falling for a carbon tax????

  13. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 10:22 am

    Ponder Z :
    Man made climate change is a scam. You have a 99% chance of being a sucker.

    The few people who still believe that climate change is not man-made have a 99% chance of being ignorant. It’s no longer a matter of reasonable scientific debate. Even physicists being paid by the Koch brothers to argue differently are being forced to admit the truth.

    http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-pn-kochfunded-climate-change-skeptic-reverses-course-20120729,0,7372823.story

  14. Kinichi Matsu
    January 13, 2013 at 2:18 pm

    But, what if “Ponderz” is correct and we improve our environment for nothing?

  15. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 2:35 pm

    Kinichi Matsu :
    But, what if “Ponderz” is correct and we improve our environment for nothing?

    Dare you suggest that burning less fossil fuels might be good for us in some other way as well? Preposterous. God put that dinosaur juice underground so that we could refine it and burn it as quick and as dirty as possible.

    Plus, I’m pretty sure that the so-called dangers of smog, acid rain, oil spills, etc. are all more hoaxes from the left. Don’t bother me with facts or science either — my faith-based opinion is unshakeable.

  16. A Mass Psychosis
    January 13, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    We have a God-given right to use the wealth we earn to improve our standard of living.

    This has been the premise of every imperial power in human history.

    The next empire will achieve an even higher standard of living.

    Only communist liberals want to stop progress and growth.

  17. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    A Mass Psychosis :
    We have a God-given right to use the wealth we earn to improve our standard of living.
    This has been the premise of every imperial power in human history.
    The next empire will achieve an even higher standard of living.
    Only communist liberals want to stop progress and growth.

    Alternatively, we have the God-given ability to use our brains to reason. And the God-given responsibility to avoid irreparably damaging the world for future generations of our children. Goals that can be met even while improving standards of living — just not while pursuing a higher standard of living to the exclusion of all else.

  18. Mitch
    January 13, 2013 at 3:10 pm

    So here’s the question. You are a historian writing in 2062. You’re 65; you were born in 1997. You live on a planet whose ability to support human populations has been degraded in exactly the way the UN and US reports were estimating for, say, 2058 back in, say, 2008. Looking back, what do you make of the leadership of the planet’s leading nations and institutions of 2008? What do you make of the citizens of those leading nations that still used “voting” as an approach for determining policy direction?

  19. Ponder Z
    January 13, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Your analogy Mitch, is pure supposition.

  20. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 4:00 pm

    Insinuating that voting is antiquated is, sadly, a gratuitous provocation.

    Using that same logic, one could also argue against public education that has failed us, (following 30 years of unprecedented divestment and privatization).

    70% of eligible Americans stopped voting in the 1970’s according to Jimmy Carter. The entire speech is featured in Michael Moore’s recent documentary on Capitalism.

    All the other industrialized nations have larger turnouts. It’s no coincidence that they also have universal healthcare and are decades ahead of the U.S. in building green economies. In fact, one reason our shelves are full of cheap crap is because much of that stuff contains known cancer-causing chemicals banned by member-nations of the European Union.

    Mitch demonstrated his prejudice against this nation’s non-voters when he recently referred to them as “those people”, a dismissal curiously shared by most of the political bigs I’ve ever spoken with.

    Maybe it’s considered easier to run for office with fewer voters. All “progressives” must do to win is abandon core values.

    Sound familiar?

    Our monumental failure to educate and register “those people” is inexcusable. Little progressive advancements will occur (have occurred) without them. Of course, the bigger risk is the next “Hitler” that comes along to sell them a quick and final solution to their problems as the economy worsens.

  21. Ponder Z
    January 13, 2013 at 4:01 pm

    And the idiocy rolls on. In the 70s we stopped auto exhaust emissions with control devices and form then on have improve that deign. now an efficient exhaust system will only produce H2o and Co2. Co2 is a “gaaarreeeaaanhouse gas”. So the gov wants to tax you for producing it. You clowns will gladly pay this tax to ease your guilt for polluting the earth. Dont expect me to follow your stupidity.

  22. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 4:08 pm

    One wonders if Ponder Z has ever actually read how CO2 functions to increase the heat trapped by our atmosphere. Or just one of the many articles credibly attributing global warming to human activity. Perhaps he’s too busy scrutinizing how his small intestine looks from the inside.

  23. Henry Gray
    January 13, 2013 at 7:59 pm

    I think you mean “large intestine”, or “colon”.

  24. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Nah, he’s so deep in there that he’s all the way up to the small intestine by now.

  25. Mitch
    January 13, 2013 at 8:35 pm

    #20,

    It’s not prejudice. Maybe it’s postjudice. And sure, no individual vote accomplishes much of anything. But if there were a single election in which it was somehow magically guaranteed that every non-voter voted, the system would be shaken to its core. So collectively non-voters have a bit to answer for.

  26. Anonymous
    January 13, 2013 at 9:07 pm

    Mitch :
    #20,
    It’s not prejudice. Maybe it’s postjudice. And sure, no individual vote accomplishes much of anything. But if there were a single election in which it was somehow magically guaranteed that every non-voter voted, the system would be shaken to its core. So collectively non-voters have a bit to answer for.

    Especially the ones who consciously do not vote and then bitch about how their vote doesn’t matter because the system is broken.

  27. Anonymous
    January 14, 2013 at 12:04 am

    Mitch #25) “It’s not prejudice.Maybe it’s postjudice.”

    No, it’s prejudice, “postjudice” is impossible until AFTER we have a history of 70% voter registration AND turnout…maybe going back to the Vietnam, civil-rights and New Deal eras. Still “postjudice”?

    Mitch #25) “no individual vote accomplishes much of anything”.

    A disgraceful, illogical and grossly ignorant comment. Many local races have been extremely close.

    Mitch #25) “But if there were a single election in which it was somehow magically guaranteed that every non-voter voted, the system would be shaken to its core.”

    Other industrialized nations have already demonstrated what’s possible, far below 100% turnout. If more than 10% of U.S. college students voted it could “shake the system to its core”!

    Mitch #25) “So collectively non-voters have a bit to answer for.”

    How can such a determined wordsmith be so flippant with fatally flawed logic, except to provoke?

    “Collectively” it is the educational system, media, our representatives, and especially the major political parties that systematically fail to inform, register, and compel voters, hardly from a lack of resources, but from a fundamental mistrust reflected in Mitch’s characterization of “those people”, ie, most U.S. citizens: 50 million now condemned to poverty, descending every day into further despair, eventually awaiting the first eloquent “Hitler” to finally pay attention to “them”, (our neighbors and working families). Millions more are uncounted, homeless, and destitute.

    The local Democratic Central Committee has never once sought volunteers to canvas Eureka to educate and register the unregistered. They hold far more than a “bit” of responsibility for our right-wing city councils and supervisor’s chamber in a majority-democrat population. Hell, they nearly turned-over their organization to a tiny handful of republicans!

  28. Mitch
    January 14, 2013 at 7:09 am

    OK, #27. I said “And sure, no individual vote accomplishes much of anything. But…” and I should have said “And sure, no individual vote accomplishes much of anything unless it is the deciding vote in an otherwise tied race. But…”

    I’d hope my meaning was clear from its context, but since you call my comment “disgraceful, illogical and grossly ignorant” it apparently was not.

    As for logic and my statement that “collectively non-voters have a bit to answer for,” feel free to notice that logically my statement is not in conflict with your assertion that much blame lies with “the educational system, media, our representatives and especially the major political parties … from a fundamental mistrust … of most US citizens.” I still believe that most individual non-voters continue to have a choice of whether or not to vote, so I still believe that they share in the responsibility for what is happening.

    As for being a “determined” wordsmith… what can I say, it takes one to know one. And you appear to be picking a fight with someone who doesn’t particularly disagree with you, except for your style. That style is part of the eternally pointless yet somehow ego-gratifying path for those standing at the nonexistent barricades of the left.

    Blessings, etc…

  29. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2013 at 8:22 am

    Anyone who assumes that the statement “no individual vote accomplishes much of anything,” means it is impossible for it to accomplish anything, is irrational, Mitch. They are either just looking for a fight or incapable of understanding what you actually wrote.

  30. Mitch
    January 14, 2013 at 8:53 am

    PJ,

    I don’t mind the fools from the right at all. It’s the fools that render the left completely incompetent that bug me.

  31. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Unfortunately fools come in all political flavors, Mitch. I’m betting #27 is a greenish hue.

  32. January 14, 2013 at 9:18 am

    Then there is also the choice we make whether to form a self congratulatory circular back slapping squad or a circular firing squad. I have done both but now I try not to do either.

    Diversity of thought and action on the left is a strength as well as a weakness. Success requires balance and adaptability in nature and in politics.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  33. Mitch
    January 14, 2013 at 9:32 am

    I’ve been a registered Green in the past, and I voted for Nader when he could articulate a purpose I believed was possible — getting to a vote threshold that would get the Green Party federal campaign funds in future elections. He was unable to achieve anything close to even that low threshold, and his campaign was one of the many, many reasons Gore lost to W. I was surprised, but I accepted that the result demonstrated the reality of the current American political system.

    Under the realities of our existing system, I believe the only way to advance is to unite within the Democratic party, but forming a green caucus that pushes the Democrats in the direction of green values. In many cases, those values are already the values expressed by the Democratic Party, even if they are not the values it actually defends.

    That would mean not always being in the majority within one’s own meetings, and accepting that you’d be working with people who still, in the condescending language of the left, “need education.” But it would also mean that greens would not be assisting the Republican Party.

    There is value in speaking truth to power, but I can find no value in getting three percent of the vote. It doesn’t scare anyone and if it influences elections it does it only by predominantly weakening the party that is closer to your beliefs. If America had a European style multi-party system, things would be different. If pigs could fly, bacon would be more expensive.

  34. January 14, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    Plain Jane @7,
    Oh please spare me your finger pointing judgment of my being. What do you know of me? Not a thing. You sit there calling me conspiracy minded, or any other knee jerking self superior subjective judgment of me . . . and all of your nose in the air bluster is nothing but hot air. It is play acting. It is caustic, insulting, divisive, unhelpful, illogical, unwarranted, and plain stupid.
    Can we stop being stupid? Can we just talk about how things need to change?

    The surest way to corruption is to hold in higher esteem those who think alike, rather than those who think different. If we all think the same then no one is thinking very much at all.

    REPEAT:
    “The individual is handicapped by coming face to face with a conspiracy so monstrous he cannot believe it exists.” Hoover.

  35. Anonymous
    January 14, 2013 at 1:19 pm

    The problem with Forest Queen is not that she is concerned about conspiracies, it’s that her critical thinking skills are so exceptionally weak that she can’t tell the actual conspiracies (such as the conspiracy of fossil-fuel companies massively funding climate change denialists), which are completely verifiable through the examination of factual evidence, from the wild-haired, wingnut conspiracy theories that she loves to spew on about (the supposed significance of gold-fringed flags indicating the takeover of our judicial system by “admiralty” courts, the idea that the Newtown shooting was a hoax, etc, etc, etc.) despite no real evidence to back them up, and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Or she’s just mentally ill. Or both. Either way, very sad.

  36. January 14, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    More judgment – that is what’s very sad.
    Why would any one with more than two brain cells trust so blindly those who have demonstrated so completely their untrustworthiness?
    I’m not the one who travels with a State-owned D/L, Registration, and insurance – you A, are the Kling-On. Good luck with that.
    And to quote Bill – go find yourself.

  37. Anonymous
    January 14, 2013 at 3:26 pm

    Sounds like you’re quite willing to judge others, and yet you get all defensive when others judge you. And yet you seem completely unaware of the contradiction there. But I suppose that’s not exactly surprising for someone with virtually no critical thinking skills.

  38. Anonymous
    January 14, 2013 at 7:26 pm

    Plain Jane
    January 14, 2013 at 8:22 am | #29 Quote
    “Anyone who assumes th2at the statement “no individual vote accomplishes much of anything,” means it is impossible for it to accomplish anything, is irrational, Mitch. They are either just looking for a fight or incapable of understanding what you actually wrote.”

    Since you’re joining Mitch in provoking a fight over what he “wrote” PJ, why not explain to us “fools from the left” exactly what rationality, meaning and purpose it actually serves within its context: Holding non-voters accountable for their absence?

    ZIP….NADA….

    My point is derived from my observations that Mitch hasn’t once deviated from blaming non-voters for their share of responsibility for the “way things are”. The only exception I’ve ever read is his (“sort of concession”) above @ #28.

    Previously, Mitch has aggressively asserted that the information average (now seriously impoverished) Americans need is readily available for them to make informed decisions in voting.

    This assertion blames the victims of the most powerful and ubiquitous propaganda machine this world has ever known. You don’t have to be a conspiracy nut to wonder how in the Hell only 10% of “college-educated” adults can’t be bothered to vote, and then graduate to join the other 70% who don’t vote, (if Jimmy Carter’s figures haven’t increased). Few other single-issues profoundly impact EVERY aspect of society, and yet, receive ZERO attention from literally every potential institutional intervention.

    It’s quaint, and sad, to read Mitch’s prescription to move the democratic party to the green-left.

    Very little “progressive” has occurred, nor can it, while the vast majority of non-voting citizens are completely ignored, and later blamed for the way things are.

  39. Kinichi Matsu
    January 15, 2013 at 7:47 pm

    I think #28 means only 10% of college students vote, a huge educational failure. So, why the media blackout?

  40. Anonymous
    January 15, 2013 at 8:03 pm

    I think you mean #38 KM.

    The HSU Lumberjack featured a cover-story on this issue in April, 2012, the only one of its kind in this county…ever.

    “….you appear to be picking a fight with someone who doesn’t particularly disagree with you, except for your style. That style is part of the eternally pointless yet somehow ego-gratifying path for those standing at the nonexistent barricades of the left.” (Mitch).

    The “barricade” is the classist prejudice that ignores, demeans, and blames the vast majority of potential voters who abstain. It takes a little resources, logistics and leg-work to go door-to-door to educate and register them. We fail to make this a priority at our peril.

    (My “ego-gratification” overflows every time Mitch reminds us he was “head-hunted by Wall-Street).

  41. Mitch
    January 16, 2013 at 7:12 am

    KM,

    For more on the media blackout, just Google “non-voters in America.” ;)

    No matter how much charm #38/#40 brings to the table, I continue to feel that a failure to vote is disgraceful. If you want to return an empty ballot as your vote, fine. If you want to vote Micky Mouse down the line, I hear you. But to just not vote, when your vote combined with others can actually change the people in elected office?

    I agree with anyone who says voting is not enough. I agree with anyone who says the deck is stacked. But for anyone entitled to vote, voting is a responsibility. To not vote is like holding your breath until you pass out — you may think you’ve sent a message, but nobody cares.

  42. Critical thinker
    January 16, 2013 at 9:31 am

    Kinichi Matsu :
    Since when have the local ideologues in power ever heeded the advice of experts?
    Eureka spent tens of thousands to hire non-partisan professionals to tell them what “those damn liberals” were saying all along: Rural economies cannot sustain unlimited numbers of poverty-wage jobs.
    Professional gibberish like that never sees the light of day, it could put a serious kink in a collapsing imperial economy busy draining the Treasury and turning on its own people…just like all the previous empires.
    Nothing is being allowed to conflict with the failed, irrational, environment-killing “free-market” ideology held by the highest bidders controlling national and local elections, ie, “go ahead and build another huge low-wage hotel in Eureka, a town bleeding empty businesses and abandoned, dilapidated, underutilized hotels”.
    All along, republicans have been quietly embracing global-warming, it might provide their final solution to “drowning government in a bathtub”….look at all the Armageddon movies they’ve been making…loaded with U.S. military hardware.
    Meanwhile, other industrialized nations are decades ahead in building their green economies. (Hope for Obama rediscovering FDR’s policies is turning out like Bush’s search for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq).

    What part of “low wage jobs are better than no jobs” do you not understand?

  43. Kinichi Matsu
    January 16, 2013 at 7:37 pm

    Mitch
    January 16, 2013 at 7:12 am | #41 Quote
    KM:

    “But, for anyone entitled to vote, voting is a responsibility. To not vote is like holding your breath until you pass out — you may think you’ve sent a message, but nobody cares.”

    Here’s a message that relates to non-voters that addresses your comment:

    “They who put out the peoples eyes reproach them of their blindness” (John Milton 1624).

    I can’t blame working families for their poverty, nor their ignorance in failing to vote. Especially considering how no one is reaching out to educate them and little of our “free-press” is interested in sorting out truths…large or small.

    Critical thinker
    January 16, 2013 at 9:31 am | #42 Quote
    Kinichi Matsu :

    “What part of ‘low wage jobs are better than no jobs’ do you not understand?”

    Another false choice is not a choice at all, understand?

    Arcata froze-out low-wage big boxes long ago, combined with other quality of life decisions…walkable streets, manufacturing incubators, affordable housing, industrial parks, etc…and they have the highest sales tax per capita, highest home values and probably the highest wages in the county. The result is a city that attracts capital investment instead “free-market” Eureka that manufactures more poverty that overruns social services, the cops, and scares off better paying businesses.

    I am not an economist, I suspect you are not either. Therefore, what part of the only local, professional economic research on this subject do you not understand?

    Bay Area Economics concluded in 1999 that Eureka was saturated in low-wage jobs. To continue digging this hole deeper 14 years later is insanity, ie, Eureka’s governing legacy.

  44. Mitch
    January 16, 2013 at 8:22 pm

    KM,

    You’re going to have to help me out here. How have I put out anyone’s eyes, or prevented anyone from voting?

    People do not need money or education to vote. They just need to care enough to take a few minutes of their life every now and again to register their opinion about who should run the government.

    Ignorance can explain why people sometimes vote against their self-interest. It can’t explain why someone doesn’t vote. There is a bare minimum level of responsibility as a citizen, and those who can’t be bothered to vote are not rising to it.

    Anyone who wants to cast an empty ballot or write in Mickey Mouse has my understanding. But anyone who can’t be bothered to vote is, in my opinion, just lazy. I’ve heard all the excuses, but I don’t believe them.

  45. Kinichi Matsu
    January 16, 2013 at 10:16 pm

    “anyone who can’t be bothered to vote is, in my opinion, just lazy. I’ve heard all the excuses, but I don’t believe them.”

    I’m sorry Mitch, but your words read way too much like the God-awful small minded bigotry employed to blanket the poor who…. “are lazy in their failure to take financial responsibility for themselves….”.

    There’s no way that U.S. imperialism could have grown this ugly, this long, in a nation where citizens are taught to understand or to take “minimum personal responsibility” for anything.

    If you are unaware of how the media, “put out people’s eyes”, I would recommend Noam Chomsky’s book, “Manufacturing Consent” from which the quote from Milton was borrowed. Bloggers may, or may not, want to claim affiliation with “media”, nevertheless, most blog posts and national news are each profoundly impacted by non-voters, and yet, the silence of non-voter’s existence and their massive number is deafening, even here @ Heraldo, where, instead, you illustrate Milton’s “reproach”.

    There’s a timeless exercise I recommend to heal such prejudice, it has worked during every social movement:

    Take a day or two to volunteer collecting signatures for Eureka’s Fair Wage initiative. I’ve been astounded by the number of people willing to register to vote for the first time when a brief moment is taken to educate them. None of the local mainstream media have bothered to report the historic benefits of a higher minimum wage. Ever.

    If you claim to have “heard all the excuses” of non-voters through your local experiences registering them to vote, “I don’t believe you”.

  46. Mitch
    January 17, 2013 at 11:45 am

    KM,

    The amount of time and energy that has been spent by campaigns to try to get non-voters to vote is enormous. The Obama campaigns have proven especially good at actually getting prior non-voters to the polls.

    I understand that it is politically incorrect to lay the blame for not voting at the feet of the people who actually, you know, fail to vote. But I have a very hard time with any comparison of non-voting with non-wealth. You can’t take a half hour once a year and become wealthy. You can take a half hour once a year and become a voter.

    Are there parties that seek to minimize turnout? Of course there are. Does the paid media cover the news the way I’d like to see it covered? Of course not. Are there systemic reasons vote turnout is low in the US? Yes. Is it partly the fault of non-voters? Absolutely.

    I still haven’t heard an explanation (let alone an apology, for which I won’t hold my breath) of how I’m preventing anyone from voting, or making anyone blind. Blaming “the media” is nice and generic, but your statement was directed at my comment, not “the media”:

    Here’s a message that relates to non-voters that addresses your (Mitch’s) comment:
    “They who put out the peoples eyes reproach them of their blindness” (John Milton 1624).

  47. Kinichi Matsu
    January 18, 2013 at 12:57 am

    I see.

    You have NOT ever attempted to register local voters, but claim to have “heard all their excuses”? This is the stuff of bigotry.

    “The amount of time and energy that has been spent by campaigns to try to get non-voters to vote is enormous.”

    This is patently untrue!

    Just like the “enormous” amount we (DON’T) spend on education!? (Americans can endure 16+ years of various cultural institutions, like education, while only 10% of University students register to vote!).

    Apparently, you’ve never known anyone personally in high-levels of government. Neither major party wants, nor trusts, the great unwashed masses to vote. “Trying to reach the minority that DO vote is challenging enough”. The local democratic party has NEVER ONCE canvassed Eureka to educate and register its non-voting majority despite available issues, candidates, volunteers and funding, in fact, historically, it has been the modest-means of independent social movements forced to gather the volunteers and funding to finally educate and register voters. Did you not know this?

    U.S. citizens are as responsible for their ignorance (non-voting) as they are for their economic status. We repeatedly show ourselves to be the least informed people in the industrialized world and invest the least in education per-student to prove it.

    As for the Milton quote….I’m certainly not above offering an apology, therefore, please refer me to the Heraldo posts, or any of your published writings, that have featured how this astounding number of non-voters, highest in the industrialized world, are being manufactured OUTSIDE OF their own personal “bit” of responsibility.

    As noted earlier in this blog, it is customary for mainstream media to focus on the tide while ignoring the ocean behind it. Thus far, your efforts here are clearly consistent with that approach.

  48. Mitch
    January 18, 2013 at 6:32 am

    One ongoing effort to get young people to vote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_the_Vote

    Here’s one of perhaps thousands of articles talking about party efforts to register people to vote: http://newsone.com/2058701/democrats-vs-republicans-voter-registration/

    I’ve pointed out here many times the way non-voting by young and/or idealistic people further enables this country’s shift to the right and is therefore encouraged by the GOP. The idea that both mainstream parties are “equally bad” is a lazy person’s dream excuse, but it simply is not true. I don’t have an easier way of searching for such comments than you do.

    But your statement was:

    Here’s a message that relates to non-voters that addresses your (Mitch’s) comment:
    “They who put out the peoples eyes reproach them of their blindness” (John Milton 1624).

    That statement implies that I (specifically me; not the generic “media”) have somehow “put out the peoples eyes,” which goes beyond simple failure to point out ways non-voting is manufactured. It suggests I am personally participating in the manufacture.

    As I’ve said, we largely agree about the failures of this country’s political and economic system. But it’s far easier for me to deal with an honorable conservative than a dishonorable “progressive.” You do your cause no good that I can find; I hope you at least get some personal satisfaction out of venting.

  49. The New Great Anonymous
    January 18, 2013 at 5:18 pm

    Of course the Democrats would want to push registration among the young.

    The young are naive and inexperienced in the ways of the world. They more easily fall for the nonsense & feel good lies of the Democrats.

  50. January 19, 2013 at 8:19 am

    KM,

    To see how well this national shame is hidden, I’d suggest you go online and locate SB91-23.pdf from the census bureau, “The Decline in American Voter Turnout.”

    Then, you can google the phrase “why is united states voter turnout so low” and you may discover that you are not the only one who has discovered our national shame, or who seeks to find underlying reasons for it.

    Wikipedia, as always, turns out to have interesting material on the subject.

    But I don’t doubt that you are fully capable of continuing to assert that low voter participation is a secret, your reasons for which the media declines to expose. It must make you feel very important.

    The wikipedia entry on voter turnout points out that scholars have begun to investigate whether voter turnout might be tied to the level of caring about others that predominates in a community. I find that explanation compelling, but my finding something compelling is not evidence for its accuracy one way or the other.

    Recently, several scholars have considered the possibility that B includes not only a personal interest in the outcome, but also a concern for the welfare of others in the society (or at least other members of one’s favorite group or party).[9][10] In particular, experiments in which subject altruism was measured using a dictator game showed that concern for the well-being of others is a major factor in predicting turnout[11] and political participation.[12][13] Note that this motivation is distinct from D, because voters must think others benefit from the outcome of the election, not their act of voting in and of itself.

    Nations, and even groups within nations, vary in their levels of trust and altruism. This is not opinion, it’s simple fact.

    So, once again, I doubt we really disagree on the issues, though you find it pleasant to pretend we do. I am inclined to believe that our political and economic system have created a personality type that is extraordinarily self-centered and untrusting. You insist on interpreting this as a “blame the victim” response, because, you feel Americans are victims of some dastardly influence that prevents them from voting despite their invisible desire to do so. I, on the other hand, view your approach in the way I’m sure many conservatives view their parody of progressive thinking: as a feeble-minded attempt to excuse individuals for their own poor behavior by asserting that their poor behavior is explainable in a larger context. Explanation is not excuse. Every citizen, in my analysis, is, as a self-controlled and self-directed creature, perfectly capable of voting; if they aren’t capable in your analysis, you are the one who lacks respect for people, thinking they are simply automata tossed about on the waves of the culture.

    I’d say I’d given up on an apology, but I never expected one. You keep saying you’ll apologize just as soon as I prove I’ve done something that has nothing — nothing — to do with your assertion about me.

  51. January 19, 2013 at 9:04 am

    Only the NAMES change. “National shame” -really? Your dealing with make believe reality Until we turn this ship, on the sea of commerce, around – voting is like a dog returning to its own vomit.
    “If an uncompromising stand is to be smeared as ‘extremism,’ then that smear is directed at any devotion to values, any loyalty to principles, any profound conviction, any consistency, any steadfastness, any passion, any dedication to an unbreached inviolate truth – any
    womb/man of integrity. Ayn Rand -from Extremism of The Art of Smearing. The Unknown Ideal.

  52. Anonymous
    January 19, 2013 at 9:15 am

    Ayn Rand? Why am I not surprised?

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