Home > Uncategorized > A Worthy Comment / A Definite Problem

A Worthy Comment / A Definite Problem

Kathy

atroll

From Quick Notes:

“X is contributing to the destruction of the conversation here far more effectively than any “devil’s advocate ” can. I am being kind but whoever is running this blog does not have a firm grip on the concept of what a troll does. A trolls goal is not to win debate. A trolls goal is to destroy the conversation. X does that. X is a troll because X is constantly diverting the conversation away from local Humboldt issues. X  doesn’t care if he wins the debate or not. X just wants to destroy or divert the most popular left discussion in Humboldt. That’s his goal.”

Thank you JJ.  Whoever is running this blog is well aware of comments that ruin the conversation and discourage others from posting.  The question is what to do about it.  Should disparaging comments be deleted?  Should constantly rude and negative posters be banned?  These actions have been considered and could be taken.

Aside from banning and deleting comments, and believe me ugly nasty comments are deleted, it is helpful if thoughtful civil readers post more especially after a troll has made a deposit on the thread.

What say you?

 

  1. February 21, 2013 at 10:38 am

    I don’t get a lot of comments on my blog but, of those I do, I generally only delete spam and I don’t allow gratuitous insults, whether towards me or anyone else. It’s ok to say, “Fred, you’re full of s**t. This study (with link) shows government is the only way to prosperity”. It’s not ok to simply say “Fred (or anyone else) you’re full of s**t”.

    Completely off- topic remarks, meant as subtle insults, are also deleted although sometimes, depending on my mood, I might leave them.

  2. February 21, 2013 at 11:09 am

    Just wanted to let you know that the picture is a cyclops, not a troll.

  3. HUUFC
    February 21, 2013 at 11:10 am

    Two years ago the person running this blog posted “inflammatory swine” in response to the murderous rampage in Tuscon Arizona where Representative Gabrielle Giffords was almost killed. The entire premise of the posting was false.

    Last year the blog master posted articles that the Republican candidate for president was a liar. And then defended the sitting President’s “misspoken” remarks to the bitter end of the discussion.

    Those two instances indicate to me that anything goes. I say delete spam, but that’s all.

  4. Malcolm X
    February 21, 2013 at 11:19 am

    This whole obsession about who is worthy to post on this blog is so silly and yet Draconian. It doesn’t matter if anyone is offensive, offensive people exist in society and ignoring this fact only creates a imaginary world. The Republican party has tried to aggressively manage who attends their election rallies, where has this got them? The Soviets tried to manage what people read and heard, where did that get them? The Chinese government, the North Korean government … Get over yourselves and welcome other people’s perspectives.

  5. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 11:23 am

    Huh HUUFC? False equivalency seems to be a common trait on the right. A blog poster posting things that you think are incorrect does not equate to “anything goes.” For the record, Romney is a liar. Everyone misspeaks or use less than elegant frames to present their case occasionally, but Romney told the same lies repeatedly even after every impartial fact checker in the country called them lies. It is impossible to truthfully hold all the positions Romney had on every issue, depending on who he was speaking to, so he had to be lying to at least some of his audiences. My guess would be he was lying to the audience watching him on TV and rallies and truth telling to his donors behind closed doors. Call me cynical.

  6. Goldie
    February 21, 2013 at 11:30 am

    If Malcolm thinks that being offensive does not matter I hope he is banned.

  7. Malcolm X
    February 21, 2013 at 11:56 am

    Some white people find minority dialects of English to be “offensive”. I have relatives who think “homosexual” people are “offensive”. Rich find the rabble to be offensive. Who is in charge of deciding who is offensive? Kim Jong-un? George Bush Jr.? Stalin? Hitler?

  8. February 21, 2013 at 12:02 pm

    The question is not whether or not trolls have a right to exist – it’s whether of not HUUFC, PONDERZ and a few others ruin it for more people than enjoy their blathering. Do we eventually give up or are we distracted responding to them? Either way sucks, but I suppose you still have to take it comment by comment.

  9. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 12:06 pm

    Malcolm X :Some white people find minority dialects of English to be “offensive”. I have relatives who think “homosexual” people are “offensive”. Rich find the rabble to be offensive. Who is in charge of deciding who is offensive? Kim Jong-un? George Bush Jr.? Stalin? Hitler?

    Including the name of a U.S. President with those other three is offensive. Why not roll out some of that minority dialect and just call him a honkey?

  10. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 12:15 pm

    Would you want Dubya deciding what is offensive for everyone Just Watchin? Getting offended by the wide swath of diversity from communist to fascist that Malcolm offered as choices in his question, which FYI would necessarily include presidents of democratic republics, isn’t logical. Would you have liked the question better if he had included Jimmy Carter?

  11. Malcolm X
    February 21, 2013 at 12:19 pm

    For example, I disagree with Ponder Z, HUUFC, and Just Watchin. Ponder Z especially can be offensive (to me). But I put on my big boy pants and I choose to either read what they write or I choose to scroll right past their comments. It’s my choice. I am a free person, I am an adult. I don’t need Big Brother to protect me. Why are people constantly seeking to be rescued by Washington, Sacramento, blog moderators, etc? Don’t rescue me. I can choose where to work, where to shop, and what to read.

  12. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 12:29 pm

    Heretic :One man’s rude & negative poster is another man’s hero.
    We all remember Heraldo’s slimey personal attacks against Virgina Bass, Dave Tyson, Mike Newman, Marian Brady and other conservatives? There was no outrage by the left then. No demands to erase those topics and posts. No outcry to ban Heraldo, Larry, Josh and a couple of others by you people because of their rude & negative contributions.

    How could you leave Arkley out of the list of those being attacked??

  13. Malcolm X
    February 21, 2013 at 12:32 pm

    Because it is Politically Correct at the HH to hate Rob Arkley.

  14. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 12:48 pm

    Malcolm X :Because it is Politically Correct at the HH to hate Rob Arkley.

    True, but they’ll miss his money when he wises up and heads to a tax friendly state.

  15. Mitch
    February 21, 2013 at 12:58 pm

    Malcolm, JW, others,

    Perhaps you haven’t noticed. It’s been several generations here since there have been posts attacking Arkley. It’s not our obsession — it’s your obsession.

    My opinion is that the Herald is going to need to change to a much more heavily moderated blog if it is to survive the trolls (or cyclops) of left, right, stupid, and obnoxious. I’m not sure how that can happen given that no one is paid. Comments sections throughout the internet have had to face this problem, and the Herald is no different.

    Oh, HUUFC? The reason I posted that the Republican candidate for President was a liar was that the Republican candidate for President was a liar. That’s not an opinion, that’s an easily documented fact, just like it is factual to note the various asinine comments from Republicans about abortion, just like it is factual to note the incredible descent into anti-science that portions of our county and our country have suffered.

  16. Big Brother
    February 21, 2013 at 1:04 pm

    I agree, the Herald is going to need to change to a much more heavily moderated blog if it is to survive.

  17. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 1:07 pm

    Just like it is factual that Obama promised to cut the deficit in half by the end of his first term.

  18. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 1:08 pm

    Just like it is factual that Obama promised that no one in the middle class would see a tax increase.

  19. Mitch
    February 21, 2013 at 1:17 pm

    JW,

    Promises about things that are beyond’s one control are different than immediately falsifiable assertions. I know you see that. Objective observers will write history books calling the Romney campaign’s treatment of the facts a new low in presidential campaigning.

  20. jr
    February 21, 2013 at 1:56 pm

    Mitch: One very good model for the Herald is The Well (Whole Earth Lectronic Link) started by Stuart Brand in 1985. It is based on users subscribing (at various levels), but this fact reduces frivolous postings. Check it out at http://www.well.com. You might want to contact their office in Sausalito in order to “pick their brain”.

  21. Mitch
    February 21, 2013 at 2:00 pm

    jr,

    I’m old enough to remember the WELL, and have always been a huge fan of whole earth review / coevolution quarterly. Thanks for the suggestion. There are issues surrounding the Herald which make certain changes impossible, but there’s certainly room for more bloggish or even meatspace community-oriented things by local folks, and I think I speak for everyone at the Herald in saying we’d love to see such things happen.

  22. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 2:29 pm

    Mitch :JW,
    Promises about things that are beyond’s one control are different than immediately falsifiable assertions. I know you see that. Objective observers will write history books calling the Romney campaign’s treatment of the facts a new low in presidential campaigning.

    Obama is a smart man. As such, he knew he couldn’t keep that promise. Everyone other than the low information voters knew it, but they were his target group, and he was willing to say whatever would get him re-elected. Call it what you want. I call it the worst kind of lie.

  23. Vegetarian
    February 21, 2013 at 2:32 pm

    What is a “meatspace community”?

  24. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 2:36 pm

    The majority of voters in 2008 wanted President Obama’s agenda. The minority party, controlling 1/3 of government, blocked him at every opportunity, denying the American people what they voted for. Blaming him for the failure due to obstruction is a lie, not the worst kind of lie, but still a lie.

  25. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 2:39 pm

    Anonymous :The majority of voters in 2008 wanted President Obama’s agenda. The minority party, controlling 1/3 of government, blocked him at every opportunity, denying the American people what they voted for. Blaming him for the failure due to obstruction is a lie, not the worst kind of lie, but still a lie.

    Placing blame is an opinion. Saying you’ll do something, knowing you can’t do it, is a lie.

  26. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 2:46 pm

    The low information voters on the right still don’t get what a liar Romney is or how he played them with his flip-flops and spins, contradicting himself to suit the audience in front of him. Training people to mistrust the mainstream media was a brilliant tactic to divide us with different “facts,” but luckily there aren’t enough stupid people to conquer us in free and fair elections, which is why the GOP has been working so hard to gerrymander, restrict voting rights and rake in overwhelming campaign funds from their real constituents, i.e. not the stupid people they need to vote for them but the industrialists and bankers who own them.

  27. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 2:52 pm

    Y’all just can’t get past Romney. He lost and disappeared. You’ve made the point that Barry was the better liar. Congratulations.

  28. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 2:53 pm

    Are you saying it was impossible that Congress would accept the clear voter mandate for President Obama’s agenda, Just Watchin? You can’t name a single politician who fulfilled every campaign promise and only stupid people think that makes them liars.

  29. Just Watchin
    February 21, 2013 at 3:04 pm

    Anonymous :
    Are you saying it was impossible that Congress would accept the clear voter mandate for President Obama’s agenda, Just Watchin? You can’t name a single politician who fulfilled every campaign promise and only stupid people think that makes them liars.

    You can stop arguing now Anon…….you won……I concede. Barry was the better liar. Go shout it from the mountain tops!!!

  30. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 3:15 pm

    Mitch,

    I agree, you’ll probably get more civil and meaningful commentary if you required all commenters to log in. If that’s not possible because the original proprietor of the blog would have to be the one to make that change and that person is no longer participating, your other option would be to just start a new blog, on WordPress or otherwise, (you could just call it “The Humboldt Herald II” or whatever) and then you could use your ability to post on the old blog to direct traffic to the new one for all future posts. You’ll probably get less comments, at least at first, under that system — but the quality of the comments will probably be quite a bit better. I think it’s at least worth considering.

  31. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 3:35 pm
  32. February 21, 2013 at 3:42 pm

    Blogmasters: its about content, not comments. Most of your readers don’t post in these threads. They read the story, maybe read some of the comments, although If they are like me, get bored real quick with the same arguments and largely ignore them. This thread for instance, is re-hashing out how you want to deal with the dysfunctional family that exists here. But it represents a small percentage of your audience.

  33. February 21, 2013 at 3:44 pm

    Just Watchin :

    Mitch :JW,
    Promises about things that are beyond’s one control are different than immediately falsifiable assertions. I know you see that. Objective observers will write history books calling the Romney campaign’s treatment of the facts a new low in presidential campaigning.

    Obama is a smart man. As such, he knew he couldn’t keep that promise. Everyone other than the low information voters knew it, but they were his target group, and he was willing to say whatever would get him re-elected. Call it what you want. I call it the worst kind of lie.

    Reminds me of “read my lips”. You really think campaign promises that cant be fulfilled because of things beyond the presidents control are the worst kind of lie? Only when its not your guy. Regan raised taxes like 5 or 6 times. Thats a fact too.

  34. Mitch
    February 21, 2013 at 3:51 pm

    3:35,

    Wonderful, KM. Karma’s a wonderful thing.

    I wish you all the best, and urge all people who are sick of the Herald to go immediately to your new blog at:

    http://humboldtheraldodos.wordpress.com/

    May you experience yourself the joy of trying to maintain a spot for people to exchange views. Best of luck!

  35. jr
    February 21, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Mitch: Another idea would be to create a more regional blog that builds on the independent nature of those who live in southern Oregon and northern California. “The State of Jefferson Review: Independent Thoughts from Independent People”

  36. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 7:28 pm

    “Whoever is running this blog is well aware of comments that ruin the conversation and discourage others from posting.”

    Ask yourself, “heraldo”…HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT A FEW LINES OF TEXT ON A SCREEN HAVE THIS EFFECT???

    I see responses from several trolls in this very thread. Do you humor them, OR is it that you are indebted to their participation as accumulating participation within the confines of convention?

    How stupid do you believe YOURSELF to be in light of the very “conversation” you believe yourself to be relating?

    IS THIS REAL LIFE??? DO YOU REALLY WANT TO KNOW WHAT PEOPLE THINK???

  37. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 8:38 pm

    O SNAP DID THE ABOVE COMMENTS STUMP CONSERVATION ERRRR CONVERSATIO?N ERRR LOLCAT. ARE “you” >>>ADDICTED<<< TO THE INTERNET??:??:? Where'd all the trees and fresh water go???????????????????????????????

    Remove $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from ALL "conversation"…equation, calculation, cause and consequence, and what do you have left? Is it unrelenting rape of the natural world?????

    Clear, hot dry days coupled with freezing nights. Brief downpours, few and far between, that do not replenish watersheds. Sound familiar? Does "heraldo" believe that when people discuss desertification of the planet, they are refering to some other planet than ours? Does "heraldo" and "heraldo's" flock not want to recognize such information?

    Desert vs. Dessert….double "S"…when eating dessert, you want a Second Serving.

  38. jr
    February 21, 2013 at 8:45 pm

    Anonymous: Now tell us how you REALLY feel about the situation. “Second Serving”, I though it was for “Sweet Stuff”.

  39. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 9:02 pm

    MORANZ bla bla bla…$$$$…oh, there’s two sides to every argument…bla bla bla….$$$$…voting….politicians….the white house….bla bla bla….$$$$$$…..”I post on blogs as _______”……”my internet name is __________”…..check your facebook today?

  40. jr
    February 21, 2013 at 9:13 pm

    Anonymous: The situation you describe in 36 and 37. Don’t mince words now.

  41. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 9:21 pm

    It’s not what I feel, JR, it’s what is happening. I don’t “feel” that the sun has set beyond the western horizon tonight, nor do I “feel” it will rise tomorrow over those hills over there. The health of the planet is going down the tubes increasingly fast. You haven’t realized this fact? It used to be RARE that air temperatures breached 100 degrees farenheit in central and northern california. Within the last ten years, it has become COMMON for temperatures to breach 110 degrees in central california!

    What do YOU feel is the PURPOSE of all this? “This” being all things internet “conversation”?

  42. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 9:23 pm

    …FYI, I have been paying close attention to, as well as participating with all polite convention in, internet “conversation” for at least fifteen years. What does it mean to you when I tell you, from experience, that all this does is stump necessary political action?

  43. X
    February 21, 2013 at 9:30 pm

    Why are you anos still not using your name?

  44. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 9:35 pm

    Because, #43, I can tell you from experience people WILL stalk you and have a very real negative effect on your very real life if you rub the wrong feathers the wrong way. Blog participation is not as anonymous as you might believe to begin with.

  45. jr
    February 21, 2013 at 9:43 pm

    Anonymous: I tend to agree with your assessment (41) and talk, for the most part, is cheap. As Paul Simon sang on one of his solo albums, “Everyone’s got the runs for glory, but nobody stops to scrutinize the plan.”

  46. Anonymous
    February 21, 2013 at 10:03 pm

    I disagree with Paul Simon. Paul Simon used to hustle horses for half a million bucks a pop on basis of trivial geneology. Paul Simon doesn’t give a fuck about you or me. Carly Simon didn’t either…but I googled Janis Joplin looking for Carly Simon’s song to begin with…so…WTF??????

    WTF is short for WHAT THE FUCK, which is typed by many but in long-verse scorned by most. Laguage, eh? Devolution.

    EVERYBODY is scrutinizing the plan, NOBODY who matters is doing anything about it. NOBODY in “our” mass media is publicizing the effects of “thinking globally and acting locally” with any degree of effective realism. Draw what conclusions you can from that. They all gotta put food on their tables just the same. A city council rep. gets $500 a month? A supervisor gets over $5k/month, Holy SHIT I could live like a KING on that much money..I’d work a couple years and take several off! And after four years they get retirement???? Who would risk such a sweet gig??? Who would risk making waves??????? How much does somebody in Sacramento politics make?????? They’re ALL SLEAZEBAGS SELLOUTS.

  47. Matt
    February 21, 2013 at 10:36 pm

    On a side note, where is “Heraldo”? And who is “Etc…”?

  48. February 22, 2013 at 1:21 am

    “got the runs for glory”?!

  49. Just Watchin
    February 22, 2013 at 6:14 am

    X :Why are you anos still not using your name?

    They just need to make up a name, so that we can distinguish one Anon from the others. How hard is that??

  50. Anonymous
    February 22, 2013 at 7:19 am

    Why does it matter? You can reply to post #’s.

  51. Bingo
    February 22, 2013 at 7:31 am

    Just Watchin :

    X :Why are you anos still not using your name?

    They just need to make up a name, so that we can distinguish one Anon from the others. How hard is that??

    What do you mean “we?” You don’t live here tea tard. GFYS.

  52. Just Watchin
    February 22, 2013 at 8:09 am

    Poor Bingo….must have woke up on the wrong side of the bed this morning. Either that, or his welfare check is late.

  53. Anonymous # 13
    February 22, 2013 at 9:21 am

    Anonymous :
    Because, #43, I can tell you from experience people WILL stalk you and have a very real negative effect on your very real life if you rub the wrong feathers the wrong way. Blog participation is not as anonymous as you might believe to begin with.

    Plain Jane is right #43. The libs are notorius for their stalking especially Larry & Josh.

  54. Anonymous # 13
    February 22, 2013 at 9:28 am

    Anonymous :
    The majority of voters in 2008 wanted President Obama’s agenda. The minority party, controlling 1/3 of government, blocked him at every opportunity, denying the American people what they voted for. Blaming him for the failure due to obstruction is a lie, not the worst kind of lie, but still a lie.

    Balderdash Pumpkin. The majority of voters had no idea what his agenda was as he was purposefully vague. Many voted for him simply because he was a D. Many voted for him simply because he was black and his opponent was white. Many voted for him because he was young and his opponent was old. Many voted for him because of the hope they would get more freebies from the federal government.

  55. February 22, 2013 at 11:55 am

    I may disagree with what you say – but I willlldefend to the death your right to say it

  56. Just Watchin
    February 22, 2013 at 1:21 pm

    This is from the link that “That Man” provided. Thank you for the insight!! LONG LIVE THE TROLLS !!!

    “Trolling is a art, defined by a series of well-placed and thought-out arguments regarding a subject, that may or may not be refuted by persons who are of lesser intelligence than the troll himself. It is often assumed the art goes back to the days of Usenet, but has suffered a slight decline in skill and execution. Modern-day trolls often study anthrotrollogy in an attempt to revive older troll methods. However, as many Usenet manuscripts have been lost in the Great Fire of AOL, their positions are often unfounded and have little to no evidence backing them up. “

  57. That Man
    February 22, 2013 at 1:30 pm

    trolling is free speech; and I’m not just saying that because I’m a retired troll. call it internet bullying call it what ever you wants. but if your mad (or had a emotional response)? then you have trolled.

  58. That Man
    February 22, 2013 at 1:43 pm

    Kathy you want to win the battle ignore the troll, hell go back under the bridge and cut himself. remember what your mom taught you about “bullies” their all hurting on the inside don’t blame societies victims.

  59. Just Watchin
    February 22, 2013 at 1:59 pm

    That Man……. please look up and study the use of the words “their” and “they’re”.

  60. Anonymous
    February 22, 2013 at 3:45 pm

    Hey JW, over post much?

  61. That Man
    February 23, 2013 at 2:42 pm

    hay JW…

  62. February 23, 2013 at 3:59 pm

    To ETC… whoever that may be. I’ve posted this here BEFORE and Eric Kirk is well aware of what I said, to wit: Post clear, specif and simple RULES, then enforce them equally. Problem is, people like Kirk don’t want rules. They want to make them up per the specific person and circumstance. Mitch and Heraldo suffer from the same disease.

    By the way, no one is forcing anyone to read anything someone posts on these blogs or comments. That’s why I NEVER post as an “Anonymous.”

  63. February 24, 2013 at 11:57 am

    A specific rule like what? No posting of purposefully annoying ad hominem B.S.? And how would that be judged?
    I don’t think Mitch or E.K. wouldn’t be averse to rules if they could be useful – but in this context, it will always be perceived by some as censorship.
    And fyi Mr. Blow – the use of a pseudonym is not much more impressive than an anon. Yes, we can tell the dif between you and J.W. or Ponz or Fred or Huufc (unless in your exuberance one or more of you posts using more than one name – hard to be sure cause you’re all crazy) and so what? You manage to consistently drag the conversation down to troll levels.
    THANKS (not).

  64. That Man
    February 25, 2013 at 1:06 pm

    oh and FYI: That picture at the top of the page is not a troll, its a cyclops. There is a difference.

  65. February 25, 2013 at 4:48 pm

    Look who’s talking! I guess Mitch and Eric need someone like you speaking for them…

  66. February 26, 2013 at 1:44 am

    Did someone say ad hominem?
    Felix is the name everyone knows me by – do your friends call you Joe Blow?
    I’d say stay on topic, but, by being an example…..

  67. X Malcolm
    March 14, 2013 at 3:53 pm

    Truth is on the side of the oppressed.

  68. March 14, 2013 at 4:18 pm

    Ay! But which is more powerful? Money or truth?

  69. Just Watchin
    March 14, 2013 at 4:56 pm

    Felix :
    Ay! But which is more powerful? Money or truth?

    I’ll go with the money. Truth seems to change depending on who is speaking.

  70. Sanitary napkin
    March 17, 2013 at 7:48 pm

    Long live the fascists.

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