Home > Uncategorized > Arkley, Maxxam find Dupes in Humboldt CPR

Arkley, Maxxam find Dupes in Humboldt CPR

Businessman Rob Arkley struck gold with Humboldt CPR, the so-called property rights group that fronts for his agenda of pushing housing into undeveloped forestlands. How fortunate for him and Maxxam that regular Joes will rally in pursuit of more money for the already filthy rich.

When Arkley formed the groups HELP and Humboldt Sunshine to strong arm the county into allowing more land for development, he couldn’t have imagined the dupes that would come out of the woodwork on his behalf if given the right message. He was laughed at for pushing “affordable housing” — a transparent ruse meant to enrich developers.

But now he’s got the less fortunate — but similarly self-interested — few whose emotions and fighting spirit can be prodded into action with constant full and half page ads that lie about the county’s attempts to protect timberlands from conversion to non-timber uses.

The Arkley/HELP/Humboldt Sunshine/Humboldt CPR ad in today’s papers (both the Times-Standard and the Eureka Reporter) relies heavily on scare tactics proclaiming “WHAT THEY’RE TAKING FROM YOU!” The bogeyman headline is followed with lies claiming “The Planning Department Staff is proposing PERMANENT removal of THE RIGHT TO BUILD A HOUSE ON YOUR TPZ PARCEL.”

The ad accuses the county of attempting to “enforce a no-growth policy” which is the rallying cry by Arkley’s developer buddy, Kurt Kramer.

If these connections weren’t enough, it appears Humboldt CPR has a new lawyer. Chuck Bell is a Republican’s Republican. Just the type Arkley would hire:

Chuck Bell shares an office with George W. Bush

A life-size, cardboard version of the commander-in-chief stands next to Bell’s desk in his downtown Sacramento office. On a nearby side table sit wooden Russian nesting dolls bearing the images of Bush’s father, President George H.W. Bush, and Russian leader Boris Yeltsin.

Hard to imagine this new little group called Humboldt CPR would have the money for all these ads and a neocon lawyer. The names may be different but the goals are the same.

When the Humboldt Herald published a piece called Rob Arkley’s Hit List, we noted some obvious targets. Kirk Girard, the Community Development Services Director who refuses to drink Arkley’s timber conversion kool-aid is an obvious one. So is Larry Glass.

These days the bulls eye appears to be county staff. Perhaps it’s time to update the list.

  1. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 4:38 pm

    Sometimes the rich and the poor are on the same page, because they both have a vested interest.

  2. December 5, 2007 at 4:45 pm

    And it’s easy for the rich to manipulate the poor, as is the case here.

  3. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 4:50 pm

    I dunno, Humboldt CPR isn’t any more mysterious than the Humboldt Watershed Council. Both activist organizations with questionable and/or mysterious connections to other groups and/or individuals.

  4. Jane Doe
    December 5, 2007 at 4:56 pm

    Humboldt Watershed Council is an NPO, not an industry pitbull.

  5. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 5:13 pm

    Say what you will Jane, industry pitbull, anti-industry pitbull. They were born of the same cloth.

  6. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 5:21 pm

    (Meaning both organizations exist to manipulate government policy.)

  7. brian
    December 5, 2007 at 5:26 pm

    This is all you have today H. ……..must have been busy at the T.S. ……..weak…..very weak

  8. December 5, 2007 at 6:05 pm

    You must have missed Lee Ulansey at yesterday’s Board of Supervisor’s meeting – he stated in no uncertain terms that HumCPR has not accepted “one red cent” from Palco, Rob Arkley, HELP or any entity in any way affiliated with them, that they didn’t need the baggage, and they didn’t need the money, that every time the Board/staff takes an action, the checks come rolling in. This is true grassroots. The real deal.

    You must really be desperate, “heraldo.”

  9. December 5, 2007 at 6:07 pm

    I’m sure Lee Ulansey was being as honest as his fear-mongering, misleading ads.

  10. Jane Doe
    December 5, 2007 at 6:15 pm

    The difference is one is trying to manipulate it for profit and the other for the public good.

  11. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    NPO,ha! You’re paying mark/heraldo/? a heafty pay check. Don’t even try to suggest their isn’t a pay off vision. Don’t even try to suggest it’s alturism either.

  12. anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 6:30 pm

    Hey heraldo, have you read the outright lies that Mark Lovelace has been putting out? He claims that the CPR want to be able to shut-down logging on TPZ land altogether so they can then build what they want. that is an outrageous lie coming from some out-of-the area professional lawyer who’s only claim to existence up here is to be a perennial pain in the butt to anyone who wants to build,develop, or cut timber. Face it Heraldo, your just all outraged because the average people are actually standing up for their rights….Right On brian!!!

  13. December 5, 2007 at 6:37 pm

    Those ads have sure hit a sore spot with you guys. Funny – you thought the Alliance for Ethical Business ads were a-ok.

    People whose names were on those AEB ads actually stand in front of the Board and complain about the Hum CPR ads. It’s comical.

  14. mresquan
    December 5, 2007 at 6:46 pm

    I understand that this CPR group will be meeting at city hall in Ferndale tomorrow to protest the actions taken by the city council against Dr.Altschuler and other prospective home owners who may have been planning to use their residence as business until the council abruptly decided to make some alterations.Any truth to this?

  15. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 6:57 pm

    Well, you wrote it on a blog comment, therefore it must be true.

  16. tad
    December 5, 2007 at 7:19 pm

    Peace be with you.

    Who are the two “highschool students” who formed CPR and where did they get the seed money? “A coalition of [highschool student] property owners” who wish me to “show [my] support for [their] children?” Something is rotten in the state of Denmark (I hope Heraldo doesn’t catch my plagarism here). It looks like a bunch of republicans trying to look like their kids. Hell it wouldn’t suprise me to find out that Rob Arkley didn’t give a penny while his kids bank rolled the whole kit and caboodle. Them ads aint cheap you know.

    love eternal

  17. camel-through-needle's-eye
    December 5, 2007 at 7:24 pm

    Repeated often enough without meaningful challenge, self-interested lies and distortions become accepted wisdom. Arkley et al’s propaganda machine presents the rest of us with a resourceful, coordinated adversary driven by greed and a one-sided view of “property rights.” We must be resigned to the slog of attrition warfare. Just another skirmish in the broader culture war, with an economic context that tilts the playing field in favor of the Arkleys of the world. All we’ve got is the truth and the strength of our convictions.

  18. December 5, 2007 at 7:28 pm

    7:24 wrote, “All we’ve got is the truth and the strength of our convictions.”.

    As does your opponents, I would think.

    Oh, that’s right: They’re lying. You’re telling the truth.

    Keep reminding me.

  19. Knock, knock.
    December 5, 2007 at 7:46 pm

    The property rights movement is older than the country itself. “It’s my property and I can do what I want with it”, goes the rant, despite the simple fact that we can only do with our property what those with the authority of force will allow us to do with our property.

    There is no question government can and does regulate where, what and how one can change the landscape. Henry VIII told the Roman Catholic church to suck it up when he took possession of his country’s monastaries. They objected, so he started his own church. Europeans displaced native Californians with ruthless determination, as they had from Columbus’ time. When the early spanish landowners of California got in the way of subdivision and development, they were forced to break up their holdings. So first off, the notion that you can do what you want with your own property is bull-shit.

    The politicization of Humboldt County’s planning process is about speculation and profiteering. Most people do not want UN-regulated growth. People want to trust state and local government to provide for reasonable population growth at no extra cost to current taxpayers. Developing rural property is not the way.

  20. theotherme
    December 5, 2007 at 8:05 pm

    well said, knock knock

  21. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 8:09 pm

    Knock knock was reasonable until the zinger at the end where is tells us the one true way of things.

  22. Hope Springs Eternal
    December 5, 2007 at 8:40 pm

    Carson Park Ranger should be getting his lawyer busy on a copyright lawsuit. CRP indeed.

    I think it is sad when you see Virginia Bass and Mike Jones on this list.

    If don;t know who most of these people are but my impression is they are mostly people toeing the ideological line who have no real clue what it is they are supporting. Others like Bill Barnum and Greg Pierson are simply greedy.

  23. 6em
    December 5, 2007 at 9:30 pm

    Holy dangit! The HCPR is cloning itself! From the Please Join Our Supporters list:

    Agland Engineering
    Phil Arnot
    Phil Arnot
    Jean Avant


    Monika L. Ballew
    Pamela Banks
    Pamela Banks
    Mari Barcus


    John Casali
    Katie Casali
    Katie Casali
    Stuart Cataldo


    Nancy Gooch
    Bob Gooch
    Bob Gooch
    Glenn Gradin

    and so on. Lock your doors!

  24. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:35 pm

    6:30 says: Lovelace “claims that the CPR want to be able to shut-down logging on TPZ land altogether so they can then build what they want.”

    Lovelace never said this.

    Rose: “This is true grassroots. The real deal.” You are either incredibly naive or lying, and it must be the latter, given your “inside” perspective.

    Ulansey “stated in no uncertain terms that HumCPR has not accepted “one red cent” from Palco, Rob Arkley, HELP or any entity in any way affiliated with them, that they didn’t need the baggage, and they didn’t need the money.”

    Oh, well, if he stated it in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS then it must be true. Please. We know who’s funding this, and it’s not because they want to do nice things for our county. It’s because they want to continue the plunder of the resources in this area for their own personal benefit. Yes, that’s right, GREED.

    Really, folks, get a clue. This is a land grab. And all the small landowners now carrying water for the big boys will get crushed along with the rest of us if we allow this to happen. Smarten up! Jump off the bandwagon. Have some courage. Take the time to learn what’s really going on. You think the people trying to stop this juggernaut are doing it for fun or money? Nothing better to do? Most would rather be out enjoying this beautiful place rather than trying to keep the greedy creeps from destroying it. They have better things to do. It is not fun. It is not rewarding. And people like Arkley and Hurwitz and others will bully you and trash you and have you followed. These are the people you have allied with, jackboots and all. Jump off, friend, or you will be among those principally responsible for causing the trainwreck. We will know it, and so will God.

  25. December 5, 2007 at 9:36 pm

    You’re talking about people who have owned property for generations, who have practiced good stewardship of the land for decades. they have not run about putting in subdivisions willy-nilly. They have complied with ever increasing regulations and restrictions. Barnums have sold land to Sanctuary Forest and Save the Redwoods (as he pointed out to his fellow panelist Jennifer Kalt at tonight’s meeting in McKinleyville’s Azalea Hall.)

    This sudden declaration by planning and Lovelace aka “Healthy Humboldt/Humboldt Watershed Council” that they are just greedy developers simply doesn’t match up with the facts.

    A number of misrepresentations were set straight tonight. ‘Bout time.

  26. December 5, 2007 at 9:42 pm

    You’re talking about people who have owned property for generations, who have practiced good stewardship of the land for decades.

    Are you including Lee Ulansey in this?

    People are buying TPZ to build houses. They haven’t owned the land for generations.

  27. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:44 pm

    Hope Springs,you are a bad example for your position. Most of the county knows all the members of CPR and they are all well informed,independent,and thoughtful. As a clone follower it must be hard for you to get us real folks who worked for what we’ve got,give greatly to our communities and damn well don’t step to anyones drum. Least of all dullards like ye eternal.

  28. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:45 pm

    Rob Arkley isn’t buying TPZ land to build houses.

  29. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:46 pm

    Barnum, “good stewardship”? 35,000 acres and not a single merchantable tree? You must be joking. This is not good stewardship. This is rape.

    And the people who have owned for generations? You mean those whose ancestors first kicked off and then massacred the Indians so their cows would have a place to graze? The ones who brought in the Chinese to run their mines and ruin the land and then ran them off, or simply killed them, when they didn’t need “chinks” anymore? Who wiped out 96 percent of the most ancient and glorious and primevel forest just for money? Who stretched nets across the mouths of rivers and took every fish that came by? Who cut thousands of miles or roads into the hills, often turning streams into road beds, to take out the logs, resulting not only in deforestation but trashed watersheds and fisheries? Who plant cloned tree species in rows, sprayed the hardwoods with toxic herbicides, poisoning the forest and the rest of us, and called this forestry? I could go on and on. What hubris. “Stewards” my ass. Anti-Christ is more like it.

  30. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:47 pm

    Where will contractors buy building materials if Home Depot opens? It’s a match made in hell.

  31. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:48 pm

    I wonder if he has the same deal with Home Depot he has with the Co-Op, a percentage of their sales.

  32. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 9:58 pm

    9:46 has got a serious bitterness-angry-sour grapes-issue. Sorry for your sad life. It’s not likely to get better with that attitude. There are actually good people who own a lot of land, and take care of it responsibly. People who are “comfortable” don’t automatically turn into ogres.

  33. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 10:10 pm

    9:58, everything you say is true (except for “sad life”). No, it’s not likely to get better, but not because of my attitude. Because the greed just doesn’t rest. Everything I said is true, too. That’s a real history up there. I didn’t make it up. And the plunder continues. I’m not making that up either. It does make me angry. Where are the grizzlies? The millions of fish? The hundreds of millions of birds? The 95 percent of Humboldt Bay’s wetlands that have been lost to filling, levees, draining and the like? The navigable Eel River? (For that matter, the navigable SALT River?) The original people who lived here for 10,000 years and — yes! — managed this land in ways that provided for their sustenance while keeping it wild and clean. Are you seeing all this? Are you aware of what we’ve lost? And of what we are in danger of losing still if don’t defend this precious place from speculators who would as soon turn it into Fresno if it meant maximizing profits? This is true too, and if you don’t see it then you are seriously deluded.

  34. Anonymous
    December 5, 2007 at 10:22 pm

    But some of it is caused by man’s mistakes, not necessarily due to greed, but lack of knowledge and some changes in the earth happen without man (some silting). It is not ALL caused by greed. I recycle everything but with education we realize that some items take more energy to recycle than it is worth. Scientists are always changing the rules. Even those of us who try sometimes make mistakes. Just make sure when you educate you are not always blaming. It turns some people off.

  35. Jane Doe
    December 5, 2007 at 10:23 pm

    Well said, 10:10.

  36. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 7:00 am

    9:46 you are blinded by your “agenda”,sorry Hank, If you want to manage some timber land go buy some. You have my blessings. Good luck.

  37. December 6, 2007 at 7:08 am

    I agree with Hope Springs Eternal regarding the initials CPR. I often use these initials in reference to Carson Park Ranger. It is also the abbreviated version of Cardio Pulmonary Resuscitation.

    Fred must be mad at me. Yesterday was the 2nd time he didn’t allow my comment to appear on his web page.

  38. Knock, knock.
    December 6, 2007 at 7:25 am

    So how does one develop rural property without added expense to taxpayers? TPZ owners pay fewer taxes, but they want the roads, police, fire, schools and other fine things provided by our taxdollars to be part of the package when they build or sell.

    Raise the minimum acreage for TPZ and require a conditional use permit for building anything on the land. If people want more permissive zoning, let them apply for up-zoning. Then the community can weigh each development proposal on its own merits. Property taxes would also take on a more realistic value versus services provided, or in the case of the pure speculators, services available as part of the package they will sell.

    This may take some of the public sweating and whining out of the news for awhile, at least after some appropriately righteous chest-thumping. Then, business will go on as usual, large and/or remote parcels will remain with stricter building laws but also keep favorable yield-based taxation, and parcels closer to existing infrastructure may be zoned for development.

    It seems pretty obvious. Then again, I have no profit-margin to protect here.

  39. carly
    December 6, 2007 at 7:36 am

    I can only imagine in my dreams the beautiful, magical place
    this used to be. I try to envision the trees, fish, elk, and
    grizzlies. I amazes me what we’ve done in such a short
    amount of time. It’s one of the saddest things I can think
    of. And it’s going to get worse. I’m glad I won’t be around
    to see the rest.

  40. December 6, 2007 at 8:13 am

    Carol, Fred is not mad at you. Blogger is experiencing a glitch and comments are not being emailed to the bloggers. It’s that he doesn’t know you made a comment. The only way he can temporarily fix it is to take of the moderation and let all comments go through, then view them the same way we do all other blogs.

  41. ex republican
    December 6, 2007 at 8:44 am

    LO, The poor Indian. What makes the NA so high and righteous. Looking at the way they have embraced modern (Casino) technology. Whos to say what MIGHT have happened had they just been exposed to just the technology. Besides aren’t NA human too, just like everyone else (or so I have been told) subject to the same wants and foibles and mental health problems as the rest of us. Or are they somehow better because they couldn’t get together as a single nation and lost the war. Please soothsayers tell me more.

  42. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 9:20 am

    Curious why you call yourself “ex”?

  43. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 9:43 am

    It stands for EXtra

  44. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Talk about selling out to the detriment of the land. Indian Casinos may bring them money but too many are putting each other out of business. They provide a way for poor people to lose all their money and develop another vice. There will be an entirely new crop of alcoholic super gamblers who need rehabbing. These places should never have been allowed. They trash up the area where they are built and I don’t see any of the rancheria houses around them looking one bit better.

  45. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 10:18 am

    “Please soothsayers tell me more.”

    Here’s more: White Humboldt and Del Norte County settlers clubbed, hatcheted, shot and otherwise massacred more than 90 percent of several bands and tribes on the North Coast is less than a decade. Indian Island: The Indian men were away, so the brave white men floated on over and killed all but one person. Babies clubbed and stabbed in front of their mothers, who were then killed as well. Takes a really up-front steward of the land to do that.

    Scott Valley: In 1951 the settlers hosted a Thanksgiving “Peace Feast,” fed all the Indians Strychnine-laced food, killed 3,000 of them — each one a horrific death. How efficient.

    So tell me: How might your “mental health” be after all this?

  46. tad
    December 6, 2007 at 10:18 am

    Peace be with you.

    “Lost the war?” They were murdered for their land! These peoples, who I can assure you are more human than their European oppressors, were the victims of a premeditated genocide. Their lands rights came to them with a compromise – “give us your land or die.” They didn’t have “mental illness” until you labeled them as such! They didn’t “want” what you told them to want until you stuck a gun in their face and said want what I tell you to want.

    Deeds to the Mattole were just given to white “cattle ranchers,” and the Mattole peoples were genocided into extinction. Where were their property rights? The Wiyot peoples lost 90% of their population and 100% of their land between 1850 and 1860, cumulating in the February 26, 1860 wholesale slaughter of the women, children and men at Tuluwat. Imagine what those original Humbolt peoples felt about your land rights.

    But today we listen to this group of “fifth generation citizens.” They know what’s best for their land, but try letting a few homeless stay on your land and watch those same great-great-great-great-grandchildren scream that you shouldn’t have that right. It’s bullshit. It’s about money! I have to plagiarize 9:35 pm on this one: “[t]his is a land grab, [a]nd all the small landowners no[t] carrying water for the big boys will get crushed along with the rest of us.”

    love eternal

  47. Anony.Miss
    December 6, 2007 at 10:25 am

    10:18 YES, terrible things happened- and never should have. That was then and this is now. My relatives in my homeland were abused probably did some abusing as well. Get over it. We don’t even remember or personally know any of those people. Learn from their mistakes and strive to be a good and fair person. Start with NOW and fix what we have at this point. You can’t change everything back to the way it was at the beginning of the world.

  48. ex republican
    December 6, 2007 at 10:40 am

    Okay so intertribal murder and genocide and rape and kidnapping is allright, as long as it is the nobel Indian doing it. But not ok if you are a different color. Yes I see your point now. Lets all who own property march right down to the court house and deed it back to them forthwith.

  49. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 10:55 am

    “Get over it.”

    Yeah, genocide shmenocide.

  50. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 11:01 am

    “intertribal murder and genocide and rape and kidnapping”

    There was no intertribal genocide. There MAY have been murder, rape and kidnapping, but if so it was very rare on the North Coast … virtually nothing compared with White madness. And the bitter fact is that they were able to live here 10,000 years and keep the land pristine. Took white settlers just a couple of decades to hammer much of the west coast.

    No one needs to go down and deed land, but there does need to be some sort of Peace and Reconciliation process here on the North Coast. These were major crimes. Collectively, and measured in percentage of people killed, the genocide perpetrated against American Indians, particularly on the North Coast of California, was among the most comprehensive in the history of the human race.

  51. tad
    December 6, 2007 at 11:07 am

    Peace be with you.

    Keep telling a lie long enough and everybody will think it’s the truth. None of us disagree that theft and murder are wrong. None of us disagree that profiting from theft and murder is wrong. And none of us disagree that those who thieved and murdered should be punished and not allowed to profit off their crime.

    The Wiyot peoples had to get jobs and buy back the first 20 acres of THEIR land, while the descendants of those who killed them and/or profited from their loss of land are our 21st century town bosses. I’ll get over it when you stop passing it off as some kind of little shoving match, not the brutal holocaust of original peoples by an extremely better armed occupational settlers.

    When people stop denying their class, race, sex, age, IQ, etc. privilege, and start looking at the poor alcoholic native person not as a problem beneath them, but as the logical result of five generations stealing their land and reinforcing their “property rights,” through groups like HCCPR*, to the point you will say “get over it” with dry eyes.

    As far as intertribal murder I have failed to find any such convincing evidence, so if you have some I would be greatly interested. To compare intertribal murder with the Eureka Police Department might be apples and oranges, but to invade, attack and kill off and entire continent’s original land owners can only be compared to the world’s most brutal crimes against humanity.

    Sorry about the rant, but this is not a “get over it” type of truth.

    *(CPR is the Coalition for Police Review)
    love eternal

  52. December 6, 2007 at 11:21 am

    Thank you, Rose! I see that all his comments are on now his web page, and mine is included. I didn’t know blogger was having difficulty. Love and hugs to you, Rose and to Fred!

  53. December 6, 2007 at 11:24 am

    9:46 you are blinded by your “agenda”,sorry Hank, If you want to manage some timber land go buy some. You have my blessings. Good luck.

    Hank? Pas moi.

    There were wars up here before the Europeans came, but not genocide. At least that’s what I’ve always understood. There was a pretty nasty scrap between the Hoopa and the Yurok in the mid-19th century.

  54. December 6, 2007 at 12:45 pm

    You’re welcome, Carol! Love and hugs to you, too.

  55. TimH
    December 6, 2007 at 12:47 pm

    You missed getting the facts at the TPZ forum last night. Both sides had much to agree on.

  56. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 2:22 pm

    If we spend our time trying to attone for past mistakes, we get nowhere. learn from the past, try not to repeat the bad, but always, always move forward. everyone’s ancestors have been oppressed and killed, and most have had their land taken at some point. Learn and move on. No changing the past, no matter how horrible.

  57. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 2:33 pm

    Beat your bongos 2:22 and smoke your doobies. I’ll be in the garage building a time machine.

  58. anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 4:26 pm

    the history of mankind from the beginning of time has been of one group of humans waging war and taking land from another group of humans. It’s not right, but that’s how it is, and I’m sure that even those who are against the WASP settlers who pioneered our land are related to ancestors who were involved in the mass killing of others. All I can say, is that I dont think there has EVER been an example in recorded history when a vanquished tribe or peoples have been treated as fairly or had restitution given to them by their conquerors like we have done to the indians. In the ancient days, if you happened to be on the losing end of a war, you were either sold completely into slavery, or completely slaughtered as a people. Not so now.

  59. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 4:33 pm

    and now we have made the Indians dependent by giving them money and no life to go with it. I have not seen so many run down homes all in one place outside of a rancheria except a ghetto. I think they would have been better off if they had had to start from scratch and didn’t have a monthly handout for just being Indian. My friends who are Indian have made something of themselves and have good jobs. They aren’t happy with their relatives who get a big check each month but have nothing to do but spend it on junk, gambling, etc.

  60. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 5:16 pm

    Great, now there’s two CPR organizations Heraldo can slam and slander: Coalition for Property Rights and Coalition for Police Review. Of course one is paid for by the rich and the other is organized by the underclass, but either way, both orgs don’t fit in to the Democrat Central Committee agenda of controlling this county, so they must be evil!

  61. December 6, 2007 at 5:43 pm

    The Humboldt Herald — controlled by the Times-Standard and the Democratic Central Committee.

  62. Nyet!
    December 6, 2007 at 7:22 pm

    “All I can say, is that I don’t think that there has EVER been an example in recorded history when a vanquished tribe or peoples have been treated as fairly or had restitution given to them by their conquerers like we have done the indians.”

    In the hundred or so years between the time the Spanish made contact with the Indians on the Gulf coast and the French came from the Great Lakes region down the Mississippi river, the Indian populations of the Mississippi river valley had nearly vanished due to a plague of small pox.

    The Spanish enslaved the Indians. The French lived within tribal communities, taking Indian wives. The English, then Americans made war on the Indians, forced them onto reservations and made them dependent on spoiled meat and wormy cornmeal provided by a corrupt system that prospered as their charges died of diseases associated with malnutrition. Children were taken from their parents and put in government run schools where if you spoke your native language you were beaten. The students were forced to adopt an alien religion. Their culture, religion, medicine and wisdom, developed over the span of a thousand generations, lost in one.

    The white man has no business telling the Indian how to live.

  63. educated
    December 6, 2007 at 7:35 pm

    Thst’s not what I learned in school Nyet, we were taught the euro migration was the most peacefull in history. Then I read A PEOPLE’S HISTORY

  64. anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 7:40 pm

    The indians lost the war and their land. They too were interlopers when they crossed the land-bridge on the Bearing Strait a long time ago. I’m sure that with their hightened sense of culture(treating women as mere property, letting the aged die since they were a burden on the tribe), religion(the worship of trees, animals, spirits, rocks, mountains, etc. etc.), medicine(peyote anyone?), and wisdom they treated any “indigenous” people they met with the untmost civility. NOT. Anybody ever hear of scalping and “lodge-poleing”?

  65. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 8:24 pm

    Right. People need to be judged on their own merits, not their ancestors. Should I get into Stanford because my grandfather did? Should I be made to pay because he was unfair to someone? It works both ways.

  66. Nyet!
    December 6, 2007 at 8:26 pm

    The Indians were interlopers, how? Their woman and children were treated as equals – European woman captured in battles were assimilated into the tribe and by all accounts were treated better in that culture than they had been in the culture that they grew up in. That history has been largely skipped over. The embarrassing fact is once they had experienced living as coequals in a society that didn’t treat them as property, they were loath to return. What makes you think that your religion is superior to a religion that worshiped trees, animals, spirits, rocks and mountains? The use of peyote was part of their religious ceremonies, not their medicine kit. Some of the trees that they worshiped were older than than the religion that you practice. Scalps were sold to the English, who happened to be Christians that invented that practice. I don’t know what lodge-poling is, but, what ever the Indians did in retaliation for the atrocities committed against them, it’s a good bet that the Europeans had already invented it’s equal. Have you experience with peyote? I haven’t. But, I wouldn’t turn it down.

  67. Larry Evans
    December 6, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Interesting how a post about the strange intersection between developers and (relatively) small landowners morphed into an opportunity for racist apologia for the genocide perpetrated against the original peoples of Turtle Island.

    Of course people all over the world at most all times in history have violently pushed others around, often times in horrendously brutal ways. I think this kind of behavior by any group should be denounced by all people of conscience and morality at all times.

    Instead it seems that some folks on this string would rather get into a debate about how it is okay to do so because others did so as well and, after all, the victims in the case of the American genocide kind of deserved it because they aren’t really fully human after all.

    How sad that the species in general, and some of the representative organisms of the species commenting above, have advanced so little. Shame on you for your lack of human compassion for the horrible suffering of all victims of injustice.

    One difference about this nation from others, at least putatively, is the fact that we are a nation founded on the basis of principles. This in contrast to other nations founded on conquest just because that was how it was done.

    I agree with the comment somewhere above that wallowing in the injustices of the past is not constructive, but of course ignoring, denying or trying to justify those injustices is the first step down the slimy slope of history repeating itself.

    By the way Ignoramus 7:40 pm, scalping was a gift to native cultures from the Europeans who introduced it here. Truly, the cultural, religious and racial supremicist cant of your post seems to be the internet equivalent of a klan bedsheet hood. Sounds as foolish and pathetic as the kkk robes look.

    Also, universal human failings aside, the original inhabitants of this place on Earth managed to maintain abundant salmon runs and a healthy, diverse array of plant and animal species such that the ecosystem was resilient and prosperous.

    Personally I think there was a lot more to recommend the culture and lifestyles of native peoples such as respect for the natural world and all its beings among many other things. But if care and stewardship of the planet to a level sufficient to ensure the prosperity of a peoples children for generations to come is a good place to start. The current dominant culture has a long way to go to achieve that end and an ever shortening period of time to get there. We all need to pray to whatever concept of the universal singularity we each conceive of that our species can reach at least that minimal level of wisdom before it is too late.

  68. Nyet!
    December 6, 2007 at 8:39 pm

    Well if you are going to be judgmental, then it is useful to have your facts in order. I do not think it is useful to be judgmental of Indians when you don’t seem to care enough about them to know anything about them. To make off handed ill-informed and negative statements about an entire race is racism.

  69. Nyet!
    December 6, 2007 at 8:43 pm

    Thanks for saying it better than I can, Larry.

  70. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 9:08 pm

    My Native American friends who have done well want a level playing field, not a hand up. We all have pasts and heritages that are foggy to us, not having actually experienced them. Most of us are of mixed heritage, anyway.

  71. Anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 9:39 pm

    Yes, 9:08, so let’s just forget genocide. OhhhhhhhhhhK.

  72. anonymous
    December 6, 2007 at 10:47 pm

    Hey larry evans and nyet. Do you know what day tomorrow is? December 7. It will be 66 years ago that the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. We were minding our own business, living in peace, and along came the Japs who bombed our Pacific fleet almost into oblivion while they killed 2000 innocent Americans. So what does this have to do with the indians? Simply this. Had either of you two been “lucky” enough to fall into the hands of the Japanese, you might have been able to experience what true butchery, torture, genocide and slavery was all about. Maybe you would have walked in the Bataan Death March. Or maybe you could have toiled in jungle prisons being fed maggots and potato peelings while you were being beaten or worse still, be-headed over the slightest infraction. The point I’m making is this: You go off on Americans and our fore-fathers because they fought the indian wars and won. No one is saying that the way we treated the indians in every dealing with them was fair. it wasnt. But on the other hand, the Apaches, Blackfoot and many other indian tribes were themselves not the saints you so ridiculously try to make them out to be. They did alot of butchering and raping of whites themselves, so please dont try to pass that crap about them being some noble native race off as fact; it isnt by a long shot. If the Indians had been conquered by say the 20th century Japanese, the only ones you would ever see would probably be in a museum, or a human zoo of some sort. So please, put your copies of Das Kapital away and thank God that you live in America where even idiots like you can speak your mind.

  73. Larry Evans
    December 6, 2007 at 11:31 pm

    Another blustering Anonymous comparison shopping for atrocity.

    Is the point of the above blathering that the atrocities of the Japanese excuse those of the Europeans and others who came here and dispossessed the people who lived here?

    Or are you saying that because the Imperial Japanese army committed hideous inhuman acts against Americans (in their colonial posession of the Phillipines), then anything that Americans did to natives here 50 to 100 years before WWII isn’t so bad. “Their atrocity is worse than mine so mine doesn’t really count”.

    Apparently you are logic challenged. The point is that atrocity is bad no matter who is responsible.

    By the way, what “Indian wars” are you referring to. The ones where free people living in the fashion that they had lived for thousands of years defended their right to be free and to choose their own destiny in the face of violence and invasion? I guess that manifest destiny still festers here, at least in your withered soul.

    Finally, you really need to get some sharp new arrows for your limp quiver. Is some impotent, passive aggressive implication that someone is a commie the best you can do? Come on and let them cherrry pit facsimiles you’ve got for stones drop and come right out and say it if that’s what you mean. That’s the best you got? Lame dude.

  74. ex republican
    December 7, 2007 at 7:40 am

    Lodge-poling – Was the quaint practise of tying your women to the lodge pole of the tipi and administering some good old fashion training with a handy piece of firewood. But it’s ok because this is “normal” socio- cultural behavior.

  75. anonymous
    December 7, 2007 at 8:25 am

    Hey ex republican! Too bad Larry Evans couldnt watch a video demonstration on lodge-poling. Maybe he wouldnt be so quick to run his mouth in defense of the indians. I see he has yet to answer any points about the atrocities the indians were so quick to administer to themselves and the whites. War is war, and until the end of time there will always be war, and people will be killed and lands conquered. I can just imagine Larry Evans in an Army boot camp. He would probably come up with some kind of non-aggression form that he would have al queda dudes sign before he attempted to slap them in the face with a velvet glove.

  76. tad
    December 7, 2007 at 10:43 am

    Peace be with you.

    Anonomous 8:25 am and ex-republican please substantiate your points and rephrase them in a form that can in fact be answered and I would be willing to answer them and cite my sources for those answers. Some of what you allege is not common knowledge among the historians I’ve read, but if you can give me a lead I will research it and try to fit or juxtapose it against my answers.

    Today’s plagiarism is: those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

    love eternal

  77. Larry Evans
    December 7, 2007 at 10:47 am

    I guess some folks just have a real problem with reading comprehension,

    For the simple minded here it is:

    Atrocities and brutality– bad. Doesn’t matter who does it, no excuse.

    Beating people– bad.

    Stealing other peoples homelands– bad.

    Torturing– bad.

    Spreading disease as a weapon– bad.

    Rape and murder– bad.

    Does that make it comprehensible for you? How sad for the simple minded in the world who distinguish between right or wrong based on who the perpetrator is instead of the act.

    Finally, didn’t your parents ever teach you the simple moral lesson that two wrongs don’t make a right? Or that just because everyone else is doing something doesn’t make it okay for you to do that thing as well if what everyone else is doing is wrong?

    These are lessons more fit for kindergatners but perhaps you weren’t able to pass that level of your education. Certainly your level of ethical advancement hasn’t managed to advance beyond the self-absorbtion of a toddler whose world view is centered on their own selfish desiires and the self-delusional attempt to justify whatever they do as OK. Two and three year olds have their age as an excuse– what’s yours?

  78. anonymous
    December 7, 2007 at 11:17 am

    They’re never going to get it Larry. That type of thinking is why the rest of the world thinks we’ve gone nuts. They’re on the way out though. With Bush gone they’re back on the dung heap.

  79. Larry Evans
    December 7, 2007 at 11:30 am

    Well 11:17,

    I guess one thing that 8:25 wrote is true as long as that type of person is around– war has always and (with that kind of thinking) always will be around.

    What a disservice to true people of peace like Jesus, Dr. King, Ghandi, Mrs. Rosa Parks and others who have made positive change through non-violence and the willingness to suffer the wrath and evil of those who are threatened by that radical ideal.

    Violence is easy- non-violence is so difficult because it flies in the face of our basic animal nature. Evolution truly is an excruciatingly slow process.

  80. Anonymous
    December 7, 2007 at 2:40 pm

    You modern liberals are such a bunch of jack asses. F–k your selves. If I want to us my casino earnings to raise pigs,smoke dope or go to college its my buisness. You bastards just can’t ever mind your own buisness. I hope we put you all on the wefare line— see how the f–k we been feeling for a change. Really I try to pray for you but your shuch ass holes.

  81. Anonymous
    December 18, 2007 at 1:11 pm

    Rob Arkley is a fascist pig.

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