Home > Military, War > North Coast towns can’t ban military recruiters

North Coast towns can’t ban military recruiters

San Francisco Chronicle: Ordinances approved by voters in Arcata and Eureka to prohibit military recruiters from contacting minors are unconstitutional attempts to regulate the federal government and limit its authority over the armed forces, a federal appeals court ruled Friday.

  1. 69er
    December 17, 2010 at 10:32 pm

    As it should be.

  2. Gopher
    December 17, 2010 at 10:58 pm

    Gee, if only someone had pointed out that these laws were unconstitutional before the election.

  3. 69er
    December 17, 2010 at 11:13 pm

    Check it out, the constitutionality was questioned and was pointed out to no avail.

  4. Ponder z
    December 18, 2010 at 6:17 am

    So if you dont want your child to serve in the Obama military or his( Civilian National Security Force), them talk to them, educate them, send them to Canada. Recruiters will tell a child anything to get a recruit. A child needs parental guidance.

    And stop with the stupid election propositions. You look like a bunch of hippie wackos.

  5. Plain Jane
    December 18, 2010 at 7:04 am

    Hilarious Ponder Z. You obviously fell for that crazy frightwing absurdity about Obama’s “Civilian National Security Force” straight from the whack jobs at World Nut Daily which was echoed through the reichwing nut media. Obama was talking about national security, not from a military or law enforcement view, but to increase our educational and economic security which you would know if you had listened to the speech where he talked about it rather than listened to the crazy spin about it. You can hear it all here (not the heavily edited versions used to scare people like yourself):

    link

  6. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 7:09 am

    So what is wrong with 18 year olds joining the military? Answer: NOTHING! What’s wrong with serving your country? Answer: NOTHING!

    This ruling is good news.

  7. Mitch
    December 18, 2010 at 7:28 am

    What the Chron article states, but what is completely ignored here, is that the laws were justified by citing an international treaty — which the US has signed, making it US law — banning military recruitment of those 17 years old and younger.

    So, if I understand the article correctly, the Arcata and Eureka laws are attempting to enforce valid United States law.

    But the federal courts, led by the corrupt right-wing majority on the Supreme Court, have long since decided that federal law is to be made up as necessary: see Bush v Gore.

  8. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 7:30 am

    7:09, the military doesn’t have my son’s best interest at heart. If you don’t understand the broken promises rife in the US military, you should get yourself educated.

  9. Living In Eureka
    December 18, 2010 at 7:42 am

    If they are in a Military uniform & their lips are moving, they’re lying! In my day, we didn’t use the court system, we just ran their asses out of town. The lies that the government tells these young people is unforgivable. I say screw the courts lets get out the tar & feathers!

  10. Limp
    December 18, 2010 at 7:45 am

    Where’s the really cool cut-and-paste graphic to go along with the story? Joel, oh Joel?…….

  11. Thomas Paine Jr
    December 18, 2010 at 7:45 am

    They can’t ban, or limit medical cannabis legally either but you know the councils around here don’t follow the law.

    I personally saw Mike Winkler, Alex Stillman, and Mark Wheetly talking together outside one of the debates. A clear Brown Act violation.

  12. Walt
    December 18, 2010 at 7:48 am

    Do that to military recruiters and you’ll get a one-way ticket to Gitmo, like Julian Assange.

  13. December 18, 2010 at 8:07 am

    It’s that old establishment clause thingy. One of the powers specifically granted to Congress in Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution is the power to raise an army and navy . That means that If you want to change the law regarding recruitment ,it has to be done through an act Congress. That’s a pretty sucky situation given the current political environment. I’m no fan of right-wing judicial hacktivism, however ,in this case the court is correct.

  14. December 18, 2010 at 8:45 am

    I don’t know why you’re so upset – Michelle Obama is all over this. her entire Obesity Program, didn’t you hear? It is all because if your kids are not fit they cannot make it into the military. And she is so concerned about this that she is going to make absolutely sure that no kids get left out of military service ever again.

    ““[M]ilitary leaders … tell us that when more than one in four young people are unqualified for military service because of their weight,” the first lady says in prepared remarks, “childhood obesity isn’t just a public health threat, it’s not just an economic threat, it’s a national security threat as well.”

  15. Mitch
    December 18, 2010 at 8:52 am

    As Rose knows, many things that are good for their own reasons have had to be justified on national security grounds, because that’s a far better path towards opening the money spigots than social welfare (oooh, that awful word, “welfare”).

    Take as one example the National Defense Highway System. Ever wonder why the interstates have those red white and blue shields?

    (And I’m not arguing that the interstates are necessarily more good than bad — only that there is a rich history of using national security as an excuse for doing what you think is of benefit.)

    But perhaps Rose doesn’t feel that the First Lady has any business trying to help the nation’s kids avoid obesity. Perhaps she feels that this is a trick to enable a successful military draft. Why do you hate military service, Rose?

  16. December 18, 2010 at 9:02 am

    Obesity is a huge problem. (strike pun) Seriously though, in the ancient times, the rich were fat and the poor were thin. Now the roles are reversed.

  17. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    December 18, 2010 at 9:16 am

    Anonymous says:
    December 18, 2010 at 7:09 am
    So what is wrong with 18 year olds joining the military? Answer: NOTHING! What’s wrong with serving your country? Answer: NOTHING!

    This ruling is good news.

    Response: Sure thing, just as the confiding parents who willingly and unreluctantly purchase those “War-murde-death-kill-FRAG” types of video games a s a”pick-me up, warm-up” for the military to intervene just as hormones are kicking in – orks out perfect for the pyramid fascist schemer types.

    ……and for those parents that bought those types of games that helped to mold the young militaristic minds – how hard do you cry when that body bag comes home with your kid’s face inside????

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  18. Random Guy
    December 18, 2010 at 9:26 am

    Any minors reading? HEY KIDS, DROP ACID!!! Eat lots and lots of hallucinogenic mushrooms, LOTS OF THEM, ALL THE TIME!!! smoke marijuana regularly!

    And give the FAT FINGER TO EVERY RECRUITER YOU SEE WALKING THE HALLS OF YOUR CAMPUS!!!

  19. 06em
    December 18, 2010 at 9:27 am

    So the DREAM bill failed, DADT has been repealed and a judge has ruled that keeping recruiters away from middle and high schoolers is unconstitutional. For those keeping score at home:
    Heterosexual? Okay to sign up to be shot at.
    Homosexual? Okay to sign up to be shot at.
    Underage? Okay to learn about signing up to be shot at.
    College student? Sign up for some free education and after that you’ll get shot at.
    College student with undocumented parents? No soup for you!

  20. Mr. Nice
    December 18, 2010 at 9:42 am

    Fuck No Child Left Behind. Don’t matter if these measures are invalid because they send a clear message. Alright, they send a murky message but they do send some kinna message. A message like fuck NCLB.

  21. Free and thankful
    December 18, 2010 at 10:03 am

    The reason that Meserve & Kaitlin Soppici-Belknap can act like spoiled asses is because of our military protecting them & perserving their freedom down through the centuries.

  22. Bolithio
    December 18, 2010 at 10:22 am

    With all the commercial advertising for the army – filmed in stylized action movie frames with trendy music – kids are being recruited anyways. You can catch the latest one in 3D if you go see Tron! “This isn’t science fiction, we do it every day”.

    Rather that merely ban or allow, why dont we just make it a requirement for the parents to be involved in any recruitment until the child is 18?

  23. December 18, 2010 at 10:29 am

    Do you honestly thing parents AREN’T involved when the kids make these momentous decisions? Do you honestly think there isn’t a whole lot of discussion in a family about a thing like this? Do any of you guys even have kids?

  24. December 18, 2010 at 10:31 am

    It is funny to use the word kids, actually, seems to me when we were that age we sure as shit did not think of ourselves as kids and did not want to be treated as such. We were fully capable of making our own decisions.

  25. Random Guy
    December 18, 2010 at 10:35 am

    I hope for your sake, Rose, that by the time you hit at least 30 years old you retrospectively saw yourself as a kid when you were younger than 18…or are you still there in your head?

  26. Random Guy
    December 18, 2010 at 10:49 am

    When you’re 14 you think you’re 16, when you’re 16 you think you’re 18, when you’re 18 you think you’re 21, when you’re 21 you think you’re 18 again…then after that reality sets in. Standard milestones set by “grown ups” to herd the cattle. Highschool students are fully capable, but are being dumbed down. When I was 16, only one of us needed a vehicle for all of us to be able to pile in the back of a truck and have transportation…etc. etc. etc…it’s hypocritical and unconstitutional to say a kid can’t bring a playboy magazine to school but that machine gun totin’ hoo-ha’ers can convince then to sign away their sanity.

  27. Bolithio
    December 18, 2010 at 10:59 am

    I know as a fact that recruiters use very convincing and often misleading slogans when recruiting. I also know that if a parent is present – the spiel will be much more realistic. Yes I have kids. Im am not against military recruiting for adults.

  28. Joel Mielke
    December 18, 2010 at 11:05 am

    “It is funny to use the word kids…”

    Rose might want to look up the etymology of “infantry.”

  29. anonymous#1
    December 18, 2010 at 11:08 am

    For Anonymous 7:09 – there is definitely some question as to whether signing up for the U.S. military is actually serving our country. Rather it is serving the ongoing intergenerational military caste that seems to get a free pass to spend vast amounts of our national treasure on dubious, at best, military adventurism in support of corporate, & ethno-religious foreign interests. It would be nice if the recruit’s possible idealism (nowadays it seems that money and access to some very expensive big toys drives enlistees) were the end result, but it ain’t.
    My preferred solution is one year universal service for all, no exceptions. Each according to his/her ability. But no use of this force outside of the continental U.S. except when a state of war exists between our country and an identifiable nation state that has actually attacked our actual land mass. No foreign bases count. Get rid of them…

  30. treesnstuff
    December 18, 2010 at 11:14 am

    while it’s too bad that children must be recruited to be murderers of brown people for the u.s. government/corporations, how about calling into question the whole idea of a military in the first place. we think we are so evolved as a society with our whiz-bang gadgets and digital technology, but then we still go around hitting each other over the head with clubs circa the 13th century. what a joke. our world is sick and we are all sick for buying into the charade. when will we wake up and see that we are pawns to the elites and stop fighting their wars for them? i guess the answer is never as long as our society has its eyes glued to the propaganda box that tells us how the world is and what to believe. change your brain, reclaim you mind, think for yourself, dump the news media, forget mainstream bullsh!t culture and start perceiving the world through direct experience rather than third hand disinformation.

  31. Plain Jane
    December 18, 2010 at 11:33 am

    I am reminded of the time my daughter (under 18 at the time) took a military aptitude test (only for the extra credit promised) which started months of harassment from recruiters from every branch of the services making pie in the sky promises of free college in any field she wanted, travel, etc. One even promised a signing bonus large enough to buy a new car. My requests that they stop calling were ignored. Of course, she scored so highly on their test because she is a very bright girl and too smart to fall for their lies.

  32. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 12:05 pm

    They were lying about wanting “government off our backs”. Indoctrinating our children to join is part of the U.S. public’s subsidy to corporations to continue harvesting the labor of dark-skinned children and weaker nation’s resources.

    Imperialist-government and international child labor off our kid’s backs!

  33. Mitch
    December 18, 2010 at 12:09 pm

    Rose asks,


    Do you honestly thing parents AREN’T involved when the kids make these momentous decisions? Do you honestly think there isn’t a whole lot of discussion in a family about a thing like this?

    Rose,

    Do you honestly think all families have discussions like this, and that all parents are involved in their children’s momentous decisions? Do you worry at all about children in fucked-up families viewing the military as their only escape?

  34. Facts are inconvenient
    December 18, 2010 at 1:21 pm

    Nobody under age 18 is allowed to sign any recruitment papers without the signature of at least one of the parents.

  35. oldphart
    December 18, 2010 at 1:38 pm

    My 18 yr old grandson is leaving for Camp Pendelton in a month. I wasn’t in favor of the idea, but he is an adult and can make his own decisions. More power to him. I hope he comes back in one piece. He believes in what he is doing. That is called being mature. You do not have to agree with it, but you should respect his decision.

  36. tra
    December 18, 2010 at 2:21 pm

    Holy crap… the U.S. Senate actually got something done. Looks like the end is in sight for the idiotic policy known as Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell.

    http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/12/senate-repeals-dont-ask-dont-tell.php?ref=fpa

    The actual change of policy won’t happen overnight, but at least now the President has the authority to end the policy and if there’s any stalling, well then the buck will stop with him.

  37. skippy
    December 18, 2010 at 2:40 pm

    My nephew signed up with the Army fresh out of high school, coming from a fundamentalist military and Christian family with little influences outside of his Oregon town. He went in with his young visions of righteousness, patriotism, glory, and perhaps an inkling of the video games played.

    Stationed in Iraq on patrol, a grenade was thrown into his Humvee; pieces of his foot, legs, and thighs were blown off or burned trying to escape being the last one out. His comrades applied a tourniquet, his best friend held his hands, the medic attending to him. He survived, cleaned up a bit, wrapped up in Saran Wrap to prevent infection, doped up– and shipped Stateside for treatment.

    Two weeks later the same situation happened again to his squad, only without him. All 5 members who had previously protected him perished under gunfire escaping the Humvee. While recovering, my nephew was devastated hearing this.

    His mother, my sister, reported seeing thousands of similar young men in the overcrowded hospital at Fort Sam Houston, Texas. She helped take care of him because the staff were so overwhelmed with injuries and patients. Later, the Army showed up with a ‘therapy dog’ and photographer taking pictures. Those pictures made it onto a host of Army-sponsored sites.

    My nephew is better now. He’s had two years of hospital surgeries and skin grafts, treated for depression of trauma, guilt, and confusion. He can walk with difficulty but will never complain. At the age of 20, he’s officially disabled now. I don’t know if that will change.

    This has never been reported in the news. It probably never will. Make of this whatever you choose.

  38. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Someone who is 18 is not ready to make these decisions, go to war, etc. I think you should be mid 20s to take the responsibility to go overseas. There are too many levels of maturity at that time in a person’s life. I don’t want my kids to be approached but even worse are those kids whose parents don’t help them grow up. They don’t have a chance, and the military is good for helping with some things but they need to be older. On the flip side, the military is a great place to get in shape in case a person needs to. Maybe our youth need to go into the military and be workers on our own soil, move into those overseas positions after they are both in shape physically and mentally.

  39. Big Al
    December 18, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    30 is the new 20 if that helps any

  40. Living In Eureka
    December 18, 2010 at 3:03 pm

    Rose,
    My only child turned 18 while he was still in high school. He signed his papers without my knowledge. I told him the following in front of the officer that brought him home;
    Right or wrong – win or lose, I did not bring you into this world to kill another mother’s child. For you see, a mother does not care if her child died a hero, she just knows she doesn’t want to bury him. You can’t get a free college education in a body bag!

    My son came home to me & without harming anyone. Today I have 5 beautiful grandchildren. Many mothers have not been as lucky as I was.

  41. tra
    December 18, 2010 at 3:06 pm

    Skippy,

    Thank you for sharing that very moving story. Sadly, there are tens thousands of other stories that are very much like yours. I fervently hope that your nephew, and others like him, get all the medical and psychological treatment that they need, as well as the financial support they deserve.

    I guess time will tell whether those who were so enthusiastic about sending these young people off to war will show the same level of enthusiasm for providing generous veterans’ benefits to those who come back, especially those who return injured and/or despondent.

  42. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 4:34 pm

    I joined the Army (in Eureka) and got everything the recruiter promised. Got an honorable discharge and money for college too, he failed to tell me about that but I didn’t mind. I also have medical insurance available, free medical.

    The military is not nearly as bad as you folks are making it out to be.

    Get over it.

  43. 69er
    December 18, 2010 at 4:58 pm

    My son joined the Army right out of high school. I don’t know how it is now but when he joined in ’76 it was a contract, he signed up for motorpool and to be sent to Germany. Completed basic at Fort Ord, went to Quartermaster school on the east coast, shipped out to Germany. Motorpool duty consisted of mechanics and parts training. Met a gal, also Army, got married. He grew tired of military life and wanted out. He was curtly told that they lived up to their part of the contract and that he would also. He did and came home at the end. they both attended CR on the governments tab and both are happy to have had the experience and the benefits.

  44. tra
    December 18, 2010 at 5:00 pm

    Well it’s nice that you had such an honest recruiter and such a good experience with the military, Anon 4:34, but that doesn’t negate the hardships, and in some cases injustices, that others experience.

  45. tra
    December 18, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    69er,

    A close friend of mine served in Germany in the late 80’s – early 90’s. His unit was headed to the Persain Gulf during the first Gulf War, though the actual brief ground war was over with before he even got there. His time in Germany was pretty easy duty, involving a lot of time-killing and make-work. He had left the Army long before 9/11/01, so all in all his experience was pretty mellow. He got money for college and automatic unemployment benefits for several years and put that time and money to good use getting a college degree.

    But his experience is a far cry from what today’s soldiers are experiencing, with multiple deployment to Iraq and Afghanistan, additional unexpected deployments under stop-loss rules, etc.

  46. anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 5:40 pm

    When you read the fine print of the military contract today you’ll find that the military can “in time of war”, and we are now in perpetual war, extend your period of service as needed. Ever hear of “stop loss”?
    The most enthusiastic signers of our petitions were veterans and the commonality was “lies”.
    69er – your family enlisted during a time of relative “peace” 35 years ago. No comparison to today.
    BTW Free and Thankful at 10:03 Ms. Sopoci-Belknap was not involved in this campaign. Get your facts straight.

  47. December 18, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    Despite all the rhetoric, it remains pure madness. It’s insanity, it is killing people, it is murder.

  48. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 6:11 pm

    I agree with Anon 3:00 pm – There is a place for much the military has to offer but 18 is too young to be making the decision to into active duty. I’ve worked in the school system and other situations where the recruiters are very present and also very convincing. I’ve also attended graduation awards ceremonies where the students joining the military are presented with checks for 60K+. It’s quite impressive on the face of things. On the other hand, I know people like Anon 4:34 who benefited greatly from their military experience. I just contend that the majority of 18 year olds are not mature enough to make the decision to go to war.

  49. owltotem
    December 18, 2010 at 6:32 pm

    I wonder how old she was when she signed up for this.

  50. Anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 7:12 pm

    18 is too young? Bull. Change the legal age back to 21 or 25 or higher then.

    My son went to the Marines right after he turned 18. Before that he was a smart mouthed ass. Served in Desert Storm & came back fine. Got out at age 24 a grownup. Best thing that ever happened to him. Finished college using the GI bill.

    I shudder to think of the path he was on before.

  51. anonymous
    December 18, 2010 at 7:49 pm

    How did he get to be a “smart mouthed ass”? Too bad we have to send someone to another country to kill or be killed to shape him up but then it’s easier to let someone else do it, isn’t it?
    Moviedad is right. It’s murder.

  52. woodsworker
    December 18, 2010 at 7:52 pm

    We still have scores of f***ed up guys around from Vietnam who went at 18 and came back scarred and messed up. The suicide rate from Iraq and Afghanistan is heartbreaking. These kids come back screwed up beyond help.
    Reading the comments I was amazed to see that there is still someone around who is so deluded and/or ignorant that they believe these kids are being sent away to “protect” us. Wars are never about the great ideals we are told they are about. They are always and only for greed so the fat can get fatter using the bodies of young people to stuff their pockets. The recent wars have brought nothing but danger to this country. We are more hated world wide with each war we start. But the fat cats don’t care, the military/industrial complex don’t care , they figure their money keeps them safe. Their kids don’t get recruited.

  53. treesnstuff
    December 18, 2010 at 9:00 pm

    this is one of the best blog threads i have ever read on this website. thank you to everyone for sharing your stories about family or yourself and the military. when i read most of these stories i just feel very sad. something is very wrong with our collective society as a world of people. something is amiss. how can we get back to balance and health as a world of people? it feels so hopeless sometimes. i guess i will meditate tomorrow morning and try to achieve a place of peace and love that i can project to the world to try to influence the overall vibration. what should we do? what do you guys think? how can we start making this right? how do we heal collectively as a people?

  54. Heidi
    December 18, 2010 at 11:18 pm

    Treesnstuff
    Always do your best, do the next right thing in front of you, be fair and honest and try to build goodwill and friendship. If collectively society begins to embrace such ideals the world will gradually become kinder, gentler place to rest, killing will be offensive and foreign, it will hurt peoples souls. Maybe share a meal with a stranger this week, or better yet, someone you dislike, food and music generally heal brokenness we do not even realize we suffer from. And pray to what ever you pray to, it certainly can not hurt. :)

  55. 69er
    December 18, 2010 at 11:22 pm
  56. Boldt
    December 18, 2010 at 11:40 pm

    Sounds like Rose lived a sheltered life.

  57. Walt
    December 19, 2010 at 7:23 am

    Treesnstuff and Heidi, right on. Eubie Blake said “Be grateful for luck. Pay the thunder no mind. Listen to the birds. And don’t hate nobody.” Even Rose and Hi-fi.

  58. Anonymous
    December 19, 2010 at 9:13 am

    18 is too young to decide whether or not to go into the military? Then I guess it’s too young to be able to vote too?

  59. Joel Mielke
    December 19, 2010 at 9:59 am

    I think that most people are “too young to vote.”

  60. anon1
    December 19, 2010 at 10:16 am

    Rose’s parents are wonderful people..Have you ever spoken with rose’s husband? Maybe that’s why she’s so angry..Maybe she would like to see her nephew go to war…Nahhhh…Lets send rose..Shes so venomous she needs no weapon..I think she just needs a good rogering..

  61. Random Guy
    December 19, 2010 at 10:16 am

    treesnstuff…”be the change you want to see in teh world”…I’m sure you’re familiar with the quote. The problem is that solution works for individuals on a person to person basis. 99% of the population got along fine with the native americans, but that 1% killed them all. No different today. It’s why legislation like that which Arcata passed MUST be respected…and we owe it to everybody who suffers from injustice to not fear speaking up about it when we feel it’s right, even if it’s a buzzkill on an otherwise sunny day.

  62. Joel Mielke
    December 19, 2010 at 11:45 am

    Anon1, do you think that you somehow discredit your enemies with mindless, ugly, hateful comments?

  63. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    December 19, 2010 at 11:53 am

    Joel Mielke says:
    December 19, 2010 at 9:59 am
    I think that most people are “too young to vote.”

    Response: If so, then more so today than when compared to yesteryears. Fact is, life is full of more stuff – makes much more of a headache for the individual decision makers when MORE PEER PRESSURES have been invented by life’s randomnesses, especially when based upon greeds.

    Now, if AGE is a discrimination (see examples of the Title 9’s of the world), then one could also prove that intelligience is a discrimination….and so along the path of truth anmd reality mankind is beset to funnel its thoughts upon attempts to persuade others to do unto others as others will be taught to do unto you.

    There is no shame in unjust education or advertizings. Socio-Politico Manipulation 101 for the future college types.

    JL

  64. anon1
    December 19, 2010 at 11:56 am

    No..Just trying to understand..I’m just not like you joel..I don’t know everything..

  65. Joel Mielke
    December 19, 2010 at 12:12 pm

    If that’s what you call “trying to understand,” Anon1, then you should stop wondering what’s wrong with Rose and start wondering about yourself.

  66. anon1
    December 19, 2010 at 12:27 pm

    joel, You remind me of your dad..Your medication seems to be working..good for you..

  67. oldphart
    December 19, 2010 at 12:36 pm

    Making decisions is a sign of maturity. A standard question for human resource folks in talking to potential employees = “What is better, a bad decision or no decision?” The correct answer is a bad decision because you can correct that. No decision is wimpy. You get to make decisions your entire life, not just when you are 18. You don’t have to agree with that decision because it is not yours. It is called freedom, the freedom to choose for yourself.

  68. Anonymous
    December 19, 2010 at 12:45 pm

    They’re not too young to fight for their lives, but no one should be fighting for an unsustainable lifestyle, an irony not lost on our soldiers killing themselves in obscene numbers.

    Eighteenth Century ship captains were often in their 20’s.

    Each year a larger percentage of our youths graduate college and yet more are entering unemployment, homelessness, poverty, and committing suicide, than ever before.

    The university has become an institution dedicated to teaching harmony ideology. Despite the rhetoric about “excellence” none of HSU’s leadership make any fuss over a 10% voter turnout on campus.

    They are uninformed, not unintelligent.

  69. December 19, 2010 at 4:15 pm

    Low voter turnout serves the status quo.

  70. walt
    December 19, 2010 at 5:11 pm

    Uninformed and, since Citizens United, unenfranchised. If the 90% said “Why bother?”, what would you tell them?

  71. Joel Mielke
    December 19, 2010 at 5:21 pm

    It must warm the shriveled little hearts at the Pentagon to know that patriots like 69er are out there defending the Pentagon’s right to convince youngsters that our disastrous imperial adventures in Iraq and Afghanistan are worth killing for.

  72. Anonymous
    December 19, 2010 at 6:04 pm

    If you are not willing to allow 18 year old the authority & responsibility to sign up for the military, then you are saying they are too stupid to be allowed to vote.

    And Thank God people like most of you were not in the majority in our parent’s generation. Thank God you people are a minority even still today. People are dying to perserve your freedoms for your spoiled asses.

  73. anon1
    December 19, 2010 at 6:41 pm

    Yeah lots of freedom we have been fighting for, while our kids die..Do we have big forces in Somalia right now..

  74. Anonymous
    December 19, 2010 at 7:37 pm

    I think one vote after learning about politics is entirely different from risking one’s life and pointing a gun at people. It is apples and oranges and not comparable. A person who votes decides who decides whether we go to war and how to solve our problems, but to put yourself in the line of fire you need to learn more complex skills. Those skills need to be developed before you are sent overseas.

  75. Anonymous
    December 19, 2010 at 7:39 pm

    and I want people who are smarter and more experienced representing me in other nations. Ignorant and inexperienced youth need to be sophisticated and educated before they are be sent overseas to try to deal with foreign cultures and issues.

  76. Plain Jane
    December 19, 2010 at 8:19 pm

    Ah, but then they might know it’s a violation of the Geneva Convention to torture and humiliate people, 7:39, or at least smart enough to keep the evidence of the illegal orders so their superiors go to prison along with them.

  77. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    December 19, 2010 at 8:26 pm

    blockquote>oldphart says:
    December 19, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    Making decisions is a sign of maturity. A standard question for human resource folks in talking to potential employees = “What is better, a bad decision or no decision?” The correct answer is a bad decision because you can correct that. No decision is wimpy. You get to make decisions your entire life, not just when you are 18. You don’t have to agree with that decision because it is not yours. It is called freedom, the freedom to choose for yourself.

    Response: Good to know those who make decisions are not wimps. Hmmm, I guess it is truly freedom to be anything a person wants, even stupid at times. Now, had old Ronny hit the red button instead of pandering into a deep sub-atomic sleep with Nancy at his side, we possibly could never have had the discussion as to whether “a wimpy no decision” was more mature or better than “a decision”.

    Hey, what about the ol’ “it’s a decision to make no decision?” This would = undecided. Wow, some tough choices in life. Gotta love freedom and liberty to choose one’s path regardless of what others think. Hopefully, conducts in life are appropriate and peaceful. We all know it ain’t peaches and cream though.

    JL

  78. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    December 19, 2010 at 8:27 pm

    oldphart says:
    December 19, 2010 at 12:36 pm
    Making decisions is a sign of maturity. A standard question for human resource folks in talking to potential employees = “What is better, a bad decision or no decision?” The correct answer is a bad decision because you can correct that. No decision is wimpy. You get to make decisions your entire life, not just when you are 18. You don’t have to agree with that decision because it is not yours. It is called freedom, the freedom to choose for yourself.

    Response: Good to know those who make decisions are not wimps. Hmmm, I guess it is truly freedom to be anything a person wants, even stupid at times. Now, had old Ronny hit the red button instead of pandering into a deep sub-atomic sleep with Nancy at his side, we possibly could never have had the discussion as to whether “a wimpy no decision” was more mature or better than “a decision”.

    Hey, what about the ol’ “it’s a decision to make no decision?” This would = undecided. Wow, some tough choices in life. Gotta love freedom and liberty to choose one’s path regardless of what others think. Hopefully, conducts in life are appropriate and peaceful. We all know it ain’t peaches and cream though.

    JL

  79. Joel Mielke
    December 19, 2010 at 9:15 pm

    “People are dying to perserve your freedoms for your spoiled asses.”

    So Anonymous, what “freedoms” are being “preserved” by our occupations in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    The Bush administration couldn’t answer the question, and the more articulate Obama administration is stumbling over the same question. You have the floor, so speak up.

  80. December 20, 2010 at 9:11 am

    “I’ve also attended graduation awards ceremonies where the students joining the military are presented with checks for 60K+. ”
    In what universe? Typo maybe?

  81. Plain Jane
    December 20, 2010 at 10:07 am

    Not this one, Moviedad. From “The Scoop on Army Enlistments”:

    “The Army can offer you up to $40,000 in signing bonuses. But to get this much you have to be eligible for a combination of various types of cash bonuses.”

    Active Duty Applicants:
    Qualified applicants who enlist for two or more years may receive one of the following bonuses for civilian education:

    Bachelor\\’s degree—$8,000
    Associate or two-year degree—$7,000
    High school graduates with 60 or more college semester hours—$6,000
    High school graduates with 30 to 59 college semester hours—$3,000

    Reserve Applicants:
    Qualified non-prior service applicants who enlist for three to six years may receive one of the following bonuses for civilian education:
    Bachelor\\’s degree—$4,000
    Associate or two-year degree—$3,000
    High school graduates with 60 or more college semester hours—$2,000
    High school graduates with 30 to 59 college semester hours—$1,000

    Civilian Skill Bonus

    Qualified applicants who possess civilian skills that the Army needs—such as proficiency in certain foreign languages, X-Ray certification or specialties in animal care—may be eligible for a $5,000 bonus.
    Qualified Army Reserve applicants who already have civilian skills that the Army Reserve needs and enlist for six years in a critical skill specialty may be eligible for a $10,000 bonus.
    Army Airborne Bonus

    Qualified applicants who enlist for airborne training and a guaranteed Airborne assignment may be eligible for a $3,000 or $6,000 bonus, depending on the job they choose.
    Officer Candidate School

    Soldiers who enlist for and complete Officer Candidate School (OCS) in an eligible Area of Concentration may receive the following bonus.
    Army Reserve OCS Bonus

    Up to $10,000 bonus payable upon successful completion of OCS training and commissioning.
    Warrant Officer Flight Training Bonus

    Soldiers who enlist for and complete Warrant Officer Flight School (WOFT) in an eligible Area of Concentration may qualify for a bonus of up to $10,000.

    Middle Eastern Translator Aid Bonus

    Individuals who speak certain Middle-Eastern languages and enlist as Translator Aides in the U.S. Army Individual Ready Reserve are eligible for a $10,000 enlistment bonus.

  82. DavidIsley
    December 20, 2010 at 10:04 pm

    I’m with “MovieDad” on this one.
    As long as there is a profit motive for arms merchants and banksters we will have wars.

    The United States has never been “at peace” in any fashion other than it’s rhetoric.

    We are the modern “Rome”.
    We have bread and circuses beyond imagination( we’ve even brought back gladiator games-televised!)

    Every young man or woman thinking of joining Wall Street’s enforcement wing (the Pentagon) would be well advised to read the writings and speeches of General Smedley Butler.

  83. Anonymous
    December 21, 2010 at 1:39 pm

    You sound like a jealous loser, protected by the military you disdain & given a job indirectly by the businesses in Wall Street you slammed.

  84. skippy
    December 21, 2010 at 4:21 pm

    General Smedley Butler? That was one interesting cat. Look him up on Wikipedia, it will blow your mind:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smedley_Butler

    Major-General US Marine Corps, 34 years. Distinguisehd hero, 16 medals, twice for the Medal of Honor (one of only 19 recipients in this regard) and fought in numerous campaigns on several continents.

    Butler was the major witness for the alleged 1933 military coup against FDR (‘The Business Plot’) by the DuPont and JP Morgan empires, and the American Legion, who offered millions of dollars and thousands of potential troops as support in overthrowing a sitting president. This was later investigated by the McCormack-Dickstein Congressional Commitee, later to become the Committee on UnAmerican Activities.

    Butler wrote ‘War is a Racket’ (1935) and warned of the rising military-industrial complex; that US commercial interests are protected and furthered by war.

    His famous quote:

    “I spent 33 years and four months in active military service and during that period I spent most of my time as a high class thug for Big Business, for Wall Street and the bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism. I helped make Mexico and especially Tampico safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1902–1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for the American sugar interests in 1916. I helped make Honduras right for the American fruit companies in 1903. In China in 1927 I helped see to it that Standard Oil went on its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I might have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

    Look it up. There are also many books on the subject. It’s shocking for many reasons– and relevant to our time. And it’s not hearsay or baloney. Know your history, folks.

    Thanks, David Isely @10:04 pm.

  85. DavidIsley
    December 21, 2010 at 5:24 pm

    Thank YOU, Skippy @ 4:21 pm

  1. No trackbacks yet.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s