Waterfront property

The “future home of the Marina Center” at high tide, December 21, 2010.

But it’s not waterfront property!  It’s not!  It’s only called “Marina Center” with a picture of a sailboat because a catchy name and logo make good propaganda.

The well-placed stop signs are a nice touch.

  1. osprey
    December 22, 2010 at 11:00 am

    why in the heck should the Coastal Commission have any say about what gets developed on this site? wetlands?…..what wetlands?!

  2. DavidIsley
    December 22, 2010 at 11:05 am

    “Location,Location,Location!”

    “Marketing,Marketing,Marketing!”

    “…pay no attention to th man behind the curtain….”

  3. Big Al
    December 22, 2010 at 11:29 am

    one subduction quake and it’s all underwater at high tide.
    This happens here regularly in a geologic time sense.
    The last subduction quake in 1853 caused 4 feet of subduction on the Eureka waterfront

    just for fun dial in 1 meter and look at the waterfront
    http://flood.firetree.net/

    how long can you tread water? (ha ha ha)

  4. Big Al
    December 22, 2010 at 11:37 am

    crap, bad link… I’ll try to find it again

  5. Humboldt Politico
    December 22, 2010 at 12:25 pm

    By their reasoning, since the city of Eureka is on the bay, the entire city is waterfront property.

  6. DavidIsley
    December 22, 2010 at 12:32 pm

    to: Big Al-thanks for sharing that link.
    Great resource.
    Happy Holidays to you.

  7. Plain Jane
    December 22, 2010 at 12:53 pm

    By your reasoning the entire country is on the bay, HP. There is nothing between the balloon track and the bay (other than the street) = waterfront property.

  8. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 12:55 pm

    This is my favorite photo of the wetlands at the BT

  9. Big Al
    December 22, 2010 at 1:07 pm

    try this

  10. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 2:17 pm

    Big Al – bad science.
    The last subduction earthquake was January, 1700 AD. However it doesn’t take a subduction zone earthquake to generate a tsunami – especially a local tsunami. A mag. 6+ causing an offshore landslide can produce a mighty wave.

    This reminds me of about four years ago when there was a presentation about the Balloon Track at the Wharfinger. A representative from the EPA asked about the coastal location and when she got the party line about the property not being on the waterfront she said, “isn’t that the bay over there (points out the window at the bay), and isn’t that the property over there (points across the street at the Balloon Track property)?” Her rhetorical question wasn’t answered.

  11. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 2:19 pm

    Correction – last large (8+) subduction zone earthquake was in 1700 AD. One of the April 1992 earthquakes (6.5-7) was the result of movement along the subduction zone.

  12. Big Al
    December 22, 2010 at 2:31 pm

    sorry my reference link is down, I wrote to HSU to see if it could be found. I don’t make things up and then provide a link…

  13. wog
    December 22, 2010 at 2:34 pm

  14. anon1
    December 22, 2010 at 2:34 pm

    Wow, all that water on that property why would someone want to build there..I don’t think its hard to see even hi/sly cant argue this, look at the pics..That area is most definitely a wetlands,cant spin that one, and not enough smoke to spin a circle..Maybe we should call CR..

  15. December 22, 2010 at 2:38 pm

    Yes, so isn’t it fitting that the developers have chosen this section of the property for their wetlands restoration to create walking and biking trails?

    The public will LOVE this competed Marina Center project and all the positive benefits it brings to the community. They have already shown their early recognition of these benefits by their overwhelming YES vote on Measure N.

  16. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 2:42 pm

    Yes, Chris, please develop all remaining waterfront parcels with big box superstores! We LOVE them all!

  17. wog
    December 22, 2010 at 2:45 pm

  18. Big Al
    December 22, 2010 at 2:49 pm

    Wog buddy! my hero

  19. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 2:50 pm

    maybe thats why they zoned this portion of the property commercial waterfront for a variety of uses, like the childrens museum and small shops and trails

    look at the plan moron

  20. anon1
    December 22, 2010 at 2:57 pm

    “COMPETED PROJECT”–What do you mean..and what part are you talking about, wetlands..Its all underwater..Chris the reason you use your real name is you believe robbie is gonna send you a check..Ain’t gonna happen..Tell the truth..If there was any place that wouldn’t be good for this project? Its the Balloon tract..Let the Railroad have it back,make them clean it up and then robbie can re-buy and put into motion a real plan for that property..

  21. A-Nony-Mouse
    December 22, 2010 at 3:15 pm

    If the historic wetlands shown in these photos were retored, there would not be room for a big box store and all its parking lots. There would be room to site some light industrial buildings and limited retail at the upper end. Eureka needs another big box like a Nun needs Frederick and Charles.

    Subduction quakes apparently occur in roughly 1000 year cycles, with 3 or 4 occuring randomly in the 1000 year time frame. There seems to follow a period of roughly 1000 years witout any major subduction earthquakes. This from dune lake core samples in Oregon. If this scenario holds true, the quake in 1700 was the first in almost 1000 years. That could suggest we’re into another active 1000 year period. If so, and it has been 310 years since the last one, WE’RE DUE!!! So let’s build on the waterfront. Maybe that will prove to be the answer to getting big box stores out of Eureka; just let them sink into the bay mud.

  22. Marina DIssenter
    December 22, 2010 at 4:17 pm

    Spend all the money you want Rob, you can’t dispute the facts. Marina Center will NOT happen. period. As a matter of fact, a lot of development along the bay is NOT going to happen.

    http://www.pacinst.org/reports/sea_level_rise/hazmaps/Eureka.pdf

    ….and now I’ll wait for the chorus that Sea Level Rise and climate change are a “progressive plot”. (insert sinister laugh here.)

  23. December 22, 2010 at 4:56 pm

    THE HONORABLE SUPERVISOR BONNIE NEELY wants this BALLOON TRACK cleaned up pronto, presto, prestissimo — not juste tempo (at just the right VARIABLE tempo,depending on when and how the Arkley earth-movers and tsunami-makers want it DE-TOXIFIED)— BECAUSE AND BEFORE the TOXIC run-off and potential natural tsunami-overwash CONTAMINATES AND DESTROYS THE OYSTER BED EMPLOYMENT JOB SECTOR on the Humboldt Bay, too!!

    ALONG with NOT creating employment positions with the BUSH AND OBAMA TAX CUTS for the sociopathic criminally wealthy, such a tragedy would further outsource to the (over)seas more employment positions under the sea on the seabed?!

  24. Time to get real
    December 22, 2010 at 5:02 pm

    Osprey. Thirty percent of the balloon tract is wetlands that were filled in many years ago. It is part of the CCC’s mandate to protect coastal wetlands. It is pretty straight forward if you bother to read the law. That is why a federal judge set strict guidelines for the cleanup of the property. It also sits just fifty feet from the bay and it is illegal to have toxic runoff flowing into coastal waters. Clean it properly and build a castle.

  25. Time to get real
    December 22, 2010 at 5:56 pm

    anon 12:55 has posted a link to the shuster photo collection. The historic photo of the balloon tract shows the slough at the bottom with drainage river-lets plainly visible. The water continues to flow but because of fill, it can’t be seen on the surface. Not only is this a problem but an underground plume of toxins is moving toward it from the current mill across Washington St.

  26. Osprey
    December 22, 2010 at 6:03 pm

    Time to get Real 5:02: I was kidding.

  27. GetFactsStraight
    December 22, 2010 at 6:20 pm

    Big Al said:
    “The last subduction quake in 1853 caused 4 feet of subduction on the Eureka waterfront” WRONG

    The quake referenced (1853) was an estimated magnitude 5.7 earthquake. It was NOT a subduction zone earthquake. It was rather small.
    Your reference lists the WHARF sinking 4 feet. This is NOT the land sinking 4 feet and this is certainly NOT “4 feet of subduction”. In all likelihood, the wharf was poorly built, and was not built to account for the settling associated with minor seismic activity.
    By comparison, our Jan 9 earthquake (6.5) released about 30 times more energy than the 1853 earthquake you are referencing – and no wharfs (or land) sank.

    However we did have over 3 feet of land movement near Cape Mendocino caused by one of the 1992 earthquakes, and the north bay sank by about 1 meter in the January 1700 AD earthquake

  28. anon1
    December 22, 2010 at 6:22 pm

    2525..huh?—connect the dots for me…I ain’t getting it..

  29. December 22, 2010 at 6:56 pm

    I am not falling for it, ANON 1.

    Yours truly is NOT a sucker!

    AND I do NOT suffer fools kindly!

    OVER AND OUT, FRIEND,

    Signed,

    JULIAN ASSANGE

  30. December 22, 2010 at 7:05 pm

    Well, the property technically does not touch the water.

  31. December 22, 2010 at 7:07 pm

    So, the “Marina” Center/boat thing is a crock.

  32. anon1
    December 22, 2010 at 7:08 pm

    It is part of the water..

  33. Bring out your dead
    December 22, 2010 at 7:20 pm

    the invasive pampas grass looks beautiful….along w/the rusty trains and the fence. Awesome. I say we keep it as is.

  34. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 7:35 pm

    The slough is water. It “touches” the property. Technically speaking.

  35. Big Al
    December 22, 2010 at 7:56 pm

    I will admit I wasn’t there, you either…

    “the wharf sinking ” would be the best measurement available to the layman in what was then “village” of Eureka, and measured against what was well known, the tides.
    At best the 5.6 was measured in San Francisco, accuracy is indeed questionable.

    You contend:
    “not built to account for the settling associated with minor seismic activity”
    where else have we seen 4 feet of settling with minor seismic activity since?
    How is a wharf going to sink without the land around it sinking also, what do you propose, liquefaction alone did it?

    Am I an expert? not at all… the fact remains that the north bay “sinks” with regularity… 3-4 feet at a whack.
    The next one could be now, or tomorrow, or in a hundred years, it happens.
    +3 feet of elevation in ’92 or 3 feet of subduction in 1700, geologic time includes now.

    better to clean the site up now than find it underwater with each high tide after a subduction quake.
    The potential of a subduction quake is not the only reason to clean it up, but it’s a real one.

  36. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 7:57 pm

    Tapperass says:
    December 22, 2010 at 7:05 pm
    Well, the property technically does not touch the wat

    The toxic effluent does.

  37. December 22, 2010 at 8:03 pm

    the invasive pampas grass looks beautiful….along w/the rusty trains and the fence. Awesome. I say we keep it as is.

    Thanks to the opposing sides in this saga, keeping it as it is shall prevail.

  38. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Big Al – magnitude scales didn’t exist in 1853. The 5.7 is a modern estimate based on the reported damage. It was estimated by modern seismologists (experts) who have extensive experience correlating damage reports and the modern magntude scale. Yes, the wharf sinking is likely the result of liquefaction.

    I’m not disagreeing with your general premise of a subduction zone earthquake and the threat to the water front.
    I am objecting to your use of the minor 1853 earthquake as an example. As a long-time resident, I’m sure you know the shaking associated with a 5.7 (the professional estimate based on damage) is not much of a threat.

  39. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 8:11 pm

    Big Al – magnitude scales didn’t exist in 1853. The 5.7 is a modern estimate based on the reported damage. It was estimated by modern seismologists (experts) who have extensive experience correlating damage reports and the modern magnitude scale. Yes, the wharf sinking is likely the result of liquefaction.

    I’m not disagreeing with your general premise of a subduction zone earthquake and the threat to the water front.
    I am objecting to your use of the minor 1853 earthquake as an example. As a long-time resident, I’m sure you know the shaking associated with a 5.7 (the professional estimate based on damage) is not much of a threat.

  40. Anonymous
    December 22, 2010 at 8:12 pm

    sorry about the double post – my mistake.

  41. December 22, 2010 at 8:16 pm

    So, the “Marina” Center/boat thing is a crock.

    My crack was meant to jab at those poor fools who still believe that the CCC should have no say as to how the site should be handled.

  42. Not an Expert
    December 22, 2010 at 10:12 pm

    and then there’s the current 100-year flood map which shows the ENTIRE Balloon Track property under water
    (shown in light blue here): http://www.pacinst.org/reports/sea_level_rise/hazmaps/Eureka.pdf

    Not to mention the projected 2050 100-year flood zone!!

  43. A-Nony-Mouse
    December 22, 2010 at 10:33 pm

    Nice link, Not an Expert. Maybe Arkley should consider a Waterpark!

  44. Time to get real
    December 22, 2010 at 10:41 pm

    All of the above info just goes to show how unstable the land is along the waterfront,balloon tract included. much of the land has been filled and liquefaction is always a concern. From the current water line in Old Town the land was filled up to about 2nd st. with sawdust from the original mills and is slowly sinking due to rotting. Look at the dips on F st. between first and second. That will give you some idea of how unstable the coastal area is. Today, that is why concrete pilings are driven down to bedrock before a building is built.

  45. Anonymous
    December 23, 2010 at 6:11 am

    No one disputes that it is wetlands, but being across the street and away from the water makes the land less attractive to businesses that would benefit from being directly on the bay, restaurants, etc. That and the issue that the view is of a god-awful eyesore, the pulp mill across the bay.

  46. Sam Spade
    December 23, 2010 at 6:51 am

    I can not believe they have us debating whether this is coastal or not. Any fifth grader (not just the smart ones) could help us figure this out. But just like the myth Robyn Junior spins such as “Home Depot will be there”, it’s out there to keep the community off balance and talking about the wrong issue. Then there’s the shameless hiding behind the skirt of the Children’s Museum. (Whasamatta? Ya hate children?) But Junior, Jager, Bass, the entire Brady Bunch (formerly known as the Party of Ruthlessness) are gonna build a museum for the kids so they grow up to sell us junk third world children made for us so I can afford to have my 65-inch HDTV and a new five speed automatic Dodge Durango with a 5.7 L Hemi V8 under the hood! The Empire may be falling but I got mine.

  47. Carol
    December 23, 2010 at 6:58 am

    Imagine if we thought outside the Big Box – Houseboats in
    Sausalito “Houseboats and Floating Homes in Sausalito Note: Unlike
    most local destinations, visiting the Sausalito houseboats means
    walking next to peoples’ homes. Please be considerate, and remember
    that a paramedic or firefighter who works late may be sleeping a
    few feet away when you walk by. Anyone can do a walking tour of the
    Sausalito houseboat community, and the gates to the docks are
    unlocked. Dogs are prohibited from some docks, and you should
    always clean up after your dogs if you walk them on a dock.” Stick
    to the well-maintained docks on your walking tour. There are some
    improvised walkways and planking in a few places but you don’t need
    to traverse any of these areas to admire the best architecture and
    it’s safer to avoid them. A paid walking tour of the houseboats,
    Liberty Ship shipyards area and the yacht harbors of Sausalito is
    offered on Saturdays and Sundays by a local guide. Check out our
    advertising sections offering Houseboats for Rent and Houseboats
    for Sale. Floating Homes, Then and Now The famous Sausalito
    houseboat community chronicled in the late Phil Frank’s fascinating
    book of historical photos has a history that stretches back well
    over a century. In its most famous era, from the 1950’s through the
    1970’s, the area became a checkerboard of improvised floating homes
    that ranged from the elegant to the downright dangerous. The
    population living there likewise became, well… the people ranged
    from the elegant to the downright dangerous. After a series of
    incidents including a murder, local officials fought a long series
    of battles with various groups, and eventually struck a compromise
    where the remaining boats came into harbors. A major benefit of
    this arrangement was the linking of most remaining houseboats to
    sewer lines. Walking around the area at low tide often was an
    unpleasant experience prior to this improvement… and could even
    be noticed just driving by northern Sausalito on Highway
    101!

  48. Anonymous
    December 23, 2010 at 7:06 am

    CREG lives!!

  49. A-Nony-Mouse
    December 23, 2010 at 8:02 am

    You’re Damn Right we do!!!

  50. Carol
    December 23, 2010 at 9:33 am

    Yay!

  51. anon1
    December 23, 2010 at 9:40 am

    yeah!!

  52. Discount
    December 23, 2010 at 6:42 pm

    Yippy!

  53. Anonymous
    December 24, 2010 at 8:08 am

    yahooo.

  54. Anonymous
    December 24, 2010 at 8:43 am

    Three cheers for CREG! Three cheers for stoping progress! Three cheers for stoping any hope for more jobs! HIP HIP HOORAY for our welfare economy, legalized dope and more free handouts to the homeless!

    You people never learn.

  55. Anonymous
    December 24, 2010 at 8:39 pm

    Get a job hippy!! This sign has the Wal-Mart colors

  56. Anonymous
    December 25, 2010 at 12:57 am

    Peace on earth! Good will to all!

    And Thanks for the snow flakes, Heraldo!

  57. Kingfisher
    December 25, 2010 at 2:27 pm

    The photo for this entry looks like it was taken from the deck of the Baywatch boat. Pete, Michelle and the rest of the looter/litigators continue to milk this one to feather their nest.

  58. WhayNow
    December 25, 2010 at 3:00 pm

    Kingfisher, you are one pathetically ignorant ideologically bankrupt troglodyte.

  59. A-Nony-Mouse
    December 25, 2010 at 5:47 pm

    Anonymous 8:43 you have no idea what you’re talking about. Several years ago CREG sponsered and presented an event called “imagine the Possibilities” where we clearly showed just how many possibilities there where for developing the Balloon Track. It was a very exciting event. Many ideas were presented that would work economically without a big box. There are literally hundreds of scientifically valid studies that show how damaging big box stores are to small town economies. Somehow you think we don’t fit the rules without any explanation as to why that should be so. CREG was and is ready and willing to talk about the possibilities and what it would take to bring them about. CREG has NEVER been the one to stall or hold up progress on a real cleanup. That was our primary goal. Thanks to the Courts, we will now get it. The cork in the bottle has been and still is Security National’s lawsuits and unwillingness to work WITH the Coastal Commission and the State Lands Commission. Instead it’s sue, sue, sue by the Arkley Bunch. DELAY, thy name is Arkley.
    When Bayshore opened, Old Town took a terrible hit. Some stores closed and some hung on bytheir fingernails. A few have almost recovered, just in time for the Marina Center to wipe them out again.
    It must be tough to be an ostrich. You get sand up your nostrils. Surely we can do better than just another shopping maul?

  60. WhatNow
    December 26, 2010 at 12:20 am

    @ 4:57
    AMEN!
    One need only go to Santa Rosa, San Jose, Crescent City, the ENTIRE Central Valley of California,The Midwsetern States or damn near any other part of the lower 48 to see the wreckage and ruin slung about by Limited Liabilitly Corporations,banksters and their ditto-head goose-stepping adherents to see that what is unique about Eureka could very well be squandered by the current city councul of Mayor Frank “I’m the one without the toe-tag Jager”,Herr Neumann,and Rex Bonehead, and the rest of the ill-informed sheople guzzling the NWo KoolAid.
    I’m iutting a check to baykeepers tonight and another one for the ACLU just for good measure.
    Hey, HiFI, why are you hiding behind other monickers these days?
    One need only run a simple software program to pick you out of he reich-wing litter box ignorance to spot your posts.
    Afraid you’ll be called to account for perpetuating 2 more years of this 35 year corporate give-away?

  61. Anonymous
    December 26, 2010 at 8:13 am

    ‘what is unique about Eureka could very well be squandered by the current city councul” What Now, your post is right on the mark, I do not think people understand the real impact a 1990 style, concrete tilt up, Santa Clara style, strip mall, starbucks, jamba juice, cell phone shop, throw in a discovery museum to quiet the natives and the big anchor is going to have on our unique, victorian seaport flavor that makes Eureka not only what it is but where people come to visit. Infill development on the water front of a historic lagoon and tidal marsh has already eliminated natures filter and the processes inherent to protect a fragile ecosystem. The shortsightedness of humans in general will serve to drive nature to the edge and greed will serve to further rob those same humans of their own quality of life. Those of us with eyes wide open are tasked with this salvage effort. Physically, legally, politically, spiritually and collectively.

  62. Anon2
    December 31, 2010 at 9:17 am

    Don’t like it? Buy the land yourself and put in a park for the homeless.

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