Home > Eureka California, Jefferson School > The top 5 myths about Jefferson School

The top 5 myths about Jefferson School

[Guest post by Lisa Ollivier, Sylvia Scott,  and Heidi Benzoneli]

In the months since the election, details of the Jefferson School project have been misreported and repeated until citizens believe the misinformation is fact. Here are the top 5 myths and the associated facts regarding the Jefferson Project

Myth 1) The Jefferson School project will adversely impact the general fund.

The General Fund is a City Account used for police, fire, street sweeping, City staff, City Attorney, and much more. No purchase money for Jefferson School is coming from the General Fund.

The Westside Community Group (WCG) has been maintaining this property completely for over a year, regardless of property ownership. They have taken responsibility for their community. They have provided security patrols, and by working with EPD, eliminated drug and gang activity at the site. They have provided 100% of landscaping and maintenance, litter removal, and playground maintenance. They have raised funds for and will replace all of the broken windows, given access to the property. This will continue after Redevelopment purchases the site.

Myth 2) The Jefferson Project is an inappropriate use of Redevelopment funds:

From The California Redevelopment Agencies Webpage:

Redevelopment is a process authorized under California law that enables local government entities to revitalize deteriorated and blighted areas in their jurisdictions.

What types of projects do redevelopment agencies take on? Redevelopment agencies breathe new life into specific project areas in need of revitalization, economic development and new opportunity by:

  • Building and rehabilitating community centers, parks, libraries, public safety buildings and other community facilities;
  • Revitalizing rundown or blighted neighborhoods, which can help reduce crime and increase opportunity for struggling communities; and
  • Beautifying communities through landscaping, improvement of neighborhood streets and creation of greenbelts.

Myth 3) No funds are available to renovate the site.

Site control is essential before standard grants can be applied for.

A grant has been prematurely submitted, anticipating the closure of escrow, and has been denied as a result of ongoing delays in this process.

However, the WCG was awarded 2 grants in 2010, both of which may need to be returned to donors due to delays in purchase of the site.

Over $43,000 in in-kind community donations have been given and pledged for direct improvements to the property.

$140,000 worth of loans at 3% interest have been offered by local private benefactors.

A $100,000 pledge has been offered to the WCG to assist them in seeing this project through to fruition.

The Redwood Community Action Agency has directed senior planning staff to assist the WCG in procuring grant funding for retrofit and replenishment of Redevelopment funds.

The Headwaters Foundation has met with WCG and suggested that a kitchen retrofit may be a good match for a Headwaters Grant.

Humboldt Area Foundation has also expressed their willingness to assist the WCG with their grass-roots efforts.

Humboldt State University LEAP and YES as well as Vista and the CCC have expressed interest in assisting with cleanup, work parties and renovations.

The list continues to grow daily, community participation is abundant. The WCG’s hands are tied by process delays and roadblocks until escrow closes. It is not appropriate to submit grants or secure lending in advance of site control.

Myth 4) The Jefferson School Project will not bring jobs into the community.

Jefferson School is shovel-ready. The only thing standing in the way of our underemployed contractors going to work now is the city council’s vote to stop the progress with escrow.

Construction is slated to begin promptly upon escrow closure. This will immediately employ under and unemployed local craftsmen and materials suppliers.

The proposed tenant has stated they will create 35 brand new, long term, living wage jobs.

They would also like to use the building at night to provide an affordable commercial kitchen for start-up food manufacturing businesses. This type of business incubation fuels the local economy, builds a tax revenue base and creates jobs.

The tenant has also offered to rent classrooms in the evening, The American Red Cross has submitted a letter of interest indicating they would like to offer Certified Nursing Assistant and In Home Health Care Nursing classes at Jefferson. These are small specialized classes that improve the earning potential in an industry targeted for growth in Humboldt County.

The Committee has raised enough money to replace all of the broken windows and has bids from 3 Eureka glass companies to do the work. All they need is access to building to have that money flowing into the hands of local business and into the local economy, today!

Myth 5) The Committee does not have a plan.

A strategic plan was developed with SHN Consulting Engineers in August 2008.

The plan included funding sources, a needs assessment, evaluation of tenants, and construction cost estimates. The strategic plan showed this as profitable from the first day of occupancy and was projected to only increase in income over time.

The 2008 plan was reassessed by a private consultant, procured by the WCG, to update the plan to reflect the current economy. Three incoming generating options were presented to the City in that report:

  1. A single-tenant lease,
  2. a multiple tenant lease,
  3. and a third-party financing option.

All were profitable to the City and reviewed by a national mortgage broker to determine if lenders would be interested. They would. This is a sound economic project.

This is a build to suit lease project. The current plan is in the form of a fiscal analysis. This is what is used to assess feasibility. A business that sells a product would provide a different type of business plan. The tenant will provide yet another type of plan in order to assess its credit worthiness. We know this is complicated and we fully understand the difficulty in grasping the details of this plan. It was born of many years of work by many partners.

The friends, neighbors, community partners and supporting organizations who have worked tirelessly with the city for years on the development of this project genuinely want what is best for our community. We encourage you to reach out and become connected with the facts of this amazing opportunity for our city.

  1. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 12:06 am

    You still don’t get it. We want CR here, not another charter school to drive another nail into the coffin of our public school system.

  2. 69er
    January 3, 2011 at 12:29 am

    Who is we???????

  3. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 1:02 am

    If you have to ask, you are not we.

    We have varied reasons for hating this proposal. Personally, none of my reasons are reflected in the above article.

    Every new candidate on the council made their position clear prior to being elected. It would be backward for them to disregard the will of the voters now.

  4. anon
    January 3, 2011 at 1:31 am

    “Every new candidate on the council made their position clear prior to being elected.” Jager made this claim in today’s T-S too. I think it’s b-s. Can someone point to campaign materials or interviews that made opposition to the Jefferson project a conservative slate issue before the election? I don’t recall it being an issue at all until the newly elected Newman made it one by saying he wanted to revisit the project. I’m guessing they didn’t bring it up until then because they feared they would have lose votes. Maybe we were supposed to assume that anything Glass supported was automatically opposed by the Brady Bunch.

  5. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 2:17 am

    Sounds like 1:31 didn’t watch the debates.

  6. Mitch
    January 3, 2011 at 7:32 am

    This is citizen participation at its finest.

    Private citizens have just made five statements regarding what they call “myths.” Each statement is filled with assertions that can be determined to be true or false by anyone with sufficient time and interest.

    Is it asking too much to expect the City of Eureka’s new elected officials to respond to each of the five statements by saying, first, whether they believe it is true or not? And, if they don’t believe the statement is true, by listing the reasons they don’t believe the statement, along with similarly verifiable facts?

    There will be plenty of time for name-calling later.

  7. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 7:36 am

    Very informative post, Heidi, Lisa and Sylvia. Hopefully this will be reported in the NCJ and the T-S as well. Why people actually oppose such a positive project for a blighted neighborhood is a mystery since all their claims against it are bogus. The truth will come out, hopefully before they skuttle the project for their own narrow agenda. Hope everyone goes to the council meeting tomorrow to oppose funding the COC and demand support of this needed project.

  8. Decline to State
    January 3, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Thank you for the posting Lisa, Sylvia and Heidi. Your position is clear, thoughtful and well presented. I can understand the frustration you must feel at trying to get commitments from various different entities when there is no guarantee the city will purchase the property. A Catch 22.

    Personally, I’m so gun-shy about our economy (seemingly weekly threats that we are on the brink of losing our police or fire services)that I don’t feel the city is in any position to gamble its strained resources in the hopes that there will be sufficient investment in Jefferson after we buy in.

    I’m sympathetic to the people who live around the school but don’t feel the entire city can foot the bill right now and that we either have to have some single entity, with the capital on hand who’s willing to buy in or just walk away. I do feel however that Jefferson School still remains a high priority for the City of Eureka.

  9. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 7:53 am

    ince all their claims against it are bogus.

    Jane, how about you list the claims you believe to be false instead of lying?

  10. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Gee 7:53. Did you miss reading the guest post? What the polite ladies called “myths” are the lies I was referring to.

  11. Living In Eureka
    January 3, 2011 at 7:59 am

    7:53 Please tell us what facts YOU feel are false & why!

  12. Mitch
    January 3, 2011 at 8:01 am

    So in the last half hour, DtS has expressed sympathy but appears to have ignored the statement that NO FUNDS WILL COME FROM THE GENERAL FUND.

    DtS, would you care to respond to that?

    And Anonymous thought it best to call PJ a liar, rather than simply invite PJ to specify a false claim. Of course, it might have seemed foolish to ask PJ to specify a false claim, since the post itself asserts five false items. It calls them “myths” rather than lies.

  13. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 8:02 am

    You’re all missing the irony. If the neighborhood activists want to be viewed as credible, the last place they should appeal to people is on this blog. Venue is everything. The Herald has so much progressive vitriol (to match the neocon vitriol at the Mirror) that it’s not a place for reasonable people to engage in public discourse.

    Now, proceed to tear me down as is your practice.

  14. owltotem
    January 3, 2011 at 8:05 am

    A man and his wife owned a very special goose. Every day the goose would lay a golden egg, which made the couple very rich.

    “Just think,” said the man’s wife, “If we could have all the golden eggs that are inside the goose, we could be richer much faster.”

    “You’re right,” said her husband, “We wouldn’t have to wait for the goose to lay her egg every day.”

    So, the couple killed the goose and cut her open, only to find that she was just like every other goose. She had no golden eggs inside of her at all, and they had no more golden eggs.

    Moral: Too much greed results in nothing.

    Correlation:
    Participation, responsibility = healthy, strong, balanced society (golden egg)

    Clean, repaired, revitalized by local hands = pride of ownership in community, stimulated local economy, construction jobs now (golden eggs)

    Redevelopment = long term investment in the health and stability of the community, revitalization and curing blight, economic development and new opportunities. (golden eggs)

    Organizational support and collaboration = strong foundation and longevity. (golden egg)

    Education, Start up business opportunities, specialized training = economic growth and stability (golden egg)

    Handing the project over and washing hands of responsibility = slaughtering the goose

    Citizens working together for the benefit of their community? You can not kill that, good going guys, keep up the good work!

  15. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Just a question, 8:02. If you feel this isn’t a place for reasonable people to engage in public discourse, why do you bother to read or post here?

  16. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 3, 2011 at 8:08 am

    C.R. or sale tax revenues versus what the general neighborhood appears to want…..Hmmmm, who do elected officials represent?

    I will say that I would be against any Headwaters Funds being used in “GRANT FORM”. A fair market low interest loan is more appropriate.

    Also, at what point when measured in distance from the proposed project area outward does the sphere of support start to decline or become resented (lack of knowledge on the subject matter which affects support one way or the other shall not be included in the answer for obvious reasons). Why? Competing neighborhoods for reinvigoration monies which are public tax dollars may skew a person’s response to something occuring in another area that which makes envious another neighborhood.

    Then again, all neighborhoods have to do is take political action, right? So, why be mad at another neighborhood for getting off their butts and forming a representative body for that neighborhood so as to put pressure on the political decision makers who get paid with taxpayer dollars – happens all the time, but probably not near enough as evidenced with wasted tax dollars; and, people wonder how come things are the way it is when it comes to delapidated homes and unstable neighborhoods, broken down by neglect and lack of responsible people, including enough past and present neighbors no doubt (the pendulum swings both ways, back and forth)…………………….

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  17. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 3, 2011 at 8:12 am

    Plain Jane says:
    January 3, 2011 at 8:05 am
    Just a question, 8:02. If you feel this isn’t a place for reasonable people to engage in public discourse, why do you bother to read or post here?

    Response: Boy 8:02 am, you got off easy this morning, without curse words or verbal attacks.

    JL

  18. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Henchy, I can not even understand if you are in support of this project or not. I can however tell you that this group has been maintaining this property, doing security patrol and working with the police for a couple of years, they have combated graffiti and drug crime on that site, I personally know people from Cutten, Lundbar hills, Henderson center and Myrtle town that have shown up for work parties and to city council. It seems to me the sphere of influence associated with this project continues to grow.

  19. Mitch
    January 3, 2011 at 8:21 am

    8:02,

    Where else do you believe the neighborhood association should try to get facts distributed?

    Perhaps they have tried and failed to get their facts out through the local “professional” media?

    Or do you feel there is another widely-read blog that you believe has less vitriol than the Herald?

  20. Living In Eureka
    January 3, 2011 at 8:37 am

    8:02,
    The HH is the people’s blog. Yes, we have the Left, but we also have the Right. Most I would say, are somewhere in the middle. They may not take the time to blog, but EVERYONE reads the HH…….even City Hall!

  21. A-Nony-Mouse
    January 3, 2011 at 8:45 am

    Anonymous 12:06 and 1:02AM, get some sleep! They’ll pay you to spout your negative crap anyway so you might as well take a nap.

    This is the most amazing, involved, well thought out project I have ever seen in Eureka. Newman, from lack of understanding or just plain ornerynous, has temporarily blocked progress. We can only guess at his reasons. Hopefully he will have studied the issue and opened his mind to this unprecedented community effort. I challenge him to find a stronger plan or a more committed group than the WCG. This is precisely the roll of Redevelopment and precisely what a councilman is supposed to represent. If Newman finds fault with the Plan, it should be his roll to step in and help make it better. Trying to find ways to shoot it down is NOT serving the people he was elected to represent..

  22. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Perhaps they have tried and failed to get their facts out through the local “professional” media?

    I’ll bet you they did not submit this article to the Times-Standard. There’s no reason the TS wouldn’t print it. However, if they submitted it at the same time as submitting it to the Herald, then no, it might not get printed because of the duplication. Newspapers don’t like to be copies of each other, or copies of blogs. They generally don’t run the exact same content. Sometimes it happens with letters to the editor by mistake.

  23. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 3, 2011 at 8:58 am

    “HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE” says:
    January 3, 2011 at 8:08 am
    C.R. or sale tax revenues versus what the general neighborhood appears to want…..Hmmmm, who do elected officials represent?

    I will say that I would be against any Headwaters Funds being used in “GRANT FORM”. A fair market low interest loan is more appropriate.

    Also, at what point when measured in distance from the proposed project area outward does the sphere of support start to decline or become resented (lack of knowledge on the subject matter which affects support one way or the other shall not be included in the answer for obvious reasons). Why? Competing neighborhoods for reinvigoration monies which are public tax dollars may skew a person’s response to something occuring in another area that which makes envious another neighborhood.

    Then again, all neighborhoods have to do is take political action, right? So, why be mad at another neighborhood for getting off their butts and forming a representative body for that neighborhood so as to put pressure on the political decision makers who get paid with taxpayer dollars – happens all the time, but probably not near enough as evidenced with wasted tax dollars; and, people wonder how come things are the way it is when it comes to delapidated homes and unstable neighborhoods, broken down by neglect and lack of responsible people, including enough past and present neighbors no doubt (the pendulum swings both ways, back and forth)…………………….

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

    Anonymous says:
    January 3, 2011 at 8:19 am
    Henchy, I can not even understand if you are in support of this project or not. I can however tell you that this group has been maintaining this property, doing security patrol and working with the police for a couple of years, they have combated graffiti and drug crime on that site, I personally know people from Cutten, Lundbar hills, Henderson center and Myrtle town that have shown up for work parties and to city council. It seems to me the sphere of influence associated with this project continues to grow.

    Response: I pointed out some things to consider, hopefully unbiased and without prejudice. Sorry that is not a form you can understand. I did state something with regard to a position over the use of Headwaters Funds. What is your position on that HF statement of mine? I also gave accollades for neighborhoods who get off their butts to resolve something. What do you feel of that statement?

    It is good that you commented about the “sphere of influence for support though”.

    JL

  24. Mitch
    January 3, 2011 at 9:01 am

    8:53,

    What about if the Times-Standard were to have a paid staff member investigate the facts and write something called a “news article.” It could discuss the assertions, pointing out which were verified by the staff member and which, if any, were discredited.

    It’s harder than running a “My Word,” I know, but I’ve seen it done in other places, and it sometimes works.

  25. westside sympathizer
    January 3, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Anonymous January 3, 2011 at 1:02 am– a retort!
    Thanks to the Herald for giving the westside a forum to present their issues. The Times Standard’s slanted coverage of this has been very damaging for an accurate weighing of the facts.
    BTW mike New-man didn’t get close to 50% of the vote and he was the only candidate to come out clearly against Jefferson. Frank never mentioned it and Marion chanted Marina center now, Marina center now! There is no mandate accept for measure n and o.

  26. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 9:53 am

    Looks like.our newly elected Governor will put an end to the debate. According to the Sac Bee he intends to wipe out local redevelopment funds to help close the States budget gap. He may end up making Schwartzenager look like a Democrat.

  27. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Who exactly is the “The Westside Community Group (WCG)”? Can’t find them listed anywhere on the web.

    What two grants? If they are grants, they would not be giving the money back to the “donors” but back to a 501c3 foundation, state or federal agency who did approve the Grant. Grants don’t come from a private person or the public.

    Is the WCG non-profit, a listed 501c3 or listed under the Umbrella of another 501c3 or Foundation?

  28. High Finance
    January 3, 2011 at 10:03 am

    Myth 1. It WILL affect the general fund. Not the purchase itself but the maintenance. Security, grounds keeping and repairs must be made by the city employees or the city’s insurance company & unions will throw a fit. Also the general fund will be affected by many other ongoing expenses like utilities, insurance etc., for years to come.

    Myth 2. Jefferson already had a buyer who wanted to improve the neighborhood, C/R. The decision to use city monies was a political issue and not any desire to improve a neighborhood that was going to be improved anyway.

    Myth 3. Maybe there are funds available to rennovate the site, maybe not. But the city shouldn’t spend $600,000 first and THEN find out. Until the grants are signed & delivered all you have are hope for & wishes. That is part of what Leo Sears was referring to when he said this was a “pig in a poke”.

    Myth 4. The city buying Jefferson will not bring additional jobs. Construction jobs are only temporary and C/R was going to be bringing those in anyway. The only tenant the group named so far was a tiny charter school in Arcata who hasn’t signed any contract and only said it MIGHT be interested. It is ludicrous to claim that (even if they get the 125 students they claim) they will have 35 new “living wage” jobs. At the very best it would be 5. And those jobs will come at the cost of ten jobs at Eureka City Schools.

    Myth 5. The plan that Heidi presented on another topic here was alarming in its ridiculous claims. Claims such as the site providing $215,000 a year rent!

  29. Reality Check
    January 3, 2011 at 10:03 am

    We voted for the marina center project because of the promise of over 1000 jobs. The Jefferson School Project also promises to bring much needed jobs to the area. With the Marina Center in yet another lawsuit against the CCC, and with endless issues to the title of the property, who knows when we will actually see any sort of progress, clean-up, or jobs. The Jefferson School project provides jobs NOW! As soon as the two letters of intent are filed, the project immediately puts folks to work. We need jobs, and we must hold our council to what they promised-JOBS!

  30. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 10:27 am

    HiFi conveniently ignores inconvenient facts.

    Fact 1. A kitchen facility for food production in Arcata has a long waiting list so it is obvious one at WS will be fully utilized immediately.
    Fact 2. Organizations renting rooms for public education is income for the project and a benefit to the community at large.
    Fact 3. CR is struggling to keep their existing doors open. Adding another campus will only worsen their financial problems.
    Fact 4. The neighbors around WS are already working on maintenance and security so that portion of HiFi’s rant is irrelevant.
    Fact 5. People who put their kids in charter schools will do so regardless if there is another CS option so that’s another irrelevant point.
    Fact 6. Demanding a contract from businesses before escrow closes is ludicrous, especially given the confusing messages coming from the current city council.

  31. Only fact that matters
    January 3, 2011 at 10:38 am

    There is no firm commitment of funds necessary to renovate the site and create any project; no matter what it might be.
    Without firm commitments for the funds necessary to complete the project, acquisition of the site is premature. And yes, grants are conditionally approved all the time; in this case, on the succesful acquisition of the site. Then the funds flow.
    Simple

  32. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Your post is confusing and appears to be contradictory, Only fact. First you say there is no firm commitment for any project, then you say without firm commitments buying is premature and then further say that once the site is purchased, the funds will flow. Can you articulate your point with more consistency?

  33. Violet
    January 3, 2011 at 10:44 am

    I am a CR STUDENT! Having another campus is not the answer. CR needs to work on keeping the classes they are trying to offer at the main campus and all the others as well. CR cant afford to keep the classes they already have. I have been waiting for 2 years to take my last class needed for my AA, But they keep canceling classes. ITs a general ED class, that shouldnt get cancelled. but CR doesnt have the money. SO why on earth would they get a new site so they can pretend to offer more classes that they cant come through on. Having a new campus wont create more jobs, it will just make existing professors have to travel around more. MR. Kerrigans letter to TS last month really made me lose respect for him. It was like he lost all touch with reality. His proposal that it would create construction job for two months is a joke. CR needs to work on what they already have and stop trying to make there problems bigger than they already are. As for charter schools i think its a great idea, i went to Eureka High school but went to a charter for middle school. My charter school taught me actual life lessons about working and career placement. Where at Eureka High and other Eureka city schools you fall through the cracks if your not a sports playing student. I think that charter school really help our community youth, figure out their future. Not just barely push them along like public schools in Eureka.

  34. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Hi Fi
    Myth 1 utilities, insurance, maintenance triple net lease. You are wrong
    Myth 2 intensified use of the property, loss of neighborhood common ground and CR’s unwillingness to compromise in the initial stages proved that community improvement, curing blight or consideration for the impact on the neighborhood was not their goal, churning ADA certainly was. This is also apparent in the HUGE difference between the CR total project cost and the SHN strategic plan total project cost I belive Ms. Benzonelli said over 700000 dollars, the report should be in the last council packet. CR was interviewed and assessed along with all the other tenants in 2008 it was their unwillingness to compromise with the city’s needs assessment that caused them to go behind the city’s back and submit the offer to ECS in Dec 2008, they were AT the table as tenants but wanted it All, long term, bright lights classes til late, 11 class rooms full attendance intensified use of the property. you are wrong again hi fi

    Myth 3 a contingent lease agreement and creditworthy tenant is what is needed to secure private sector funding, grants after the fact are gravy, you know this you are not an idiot, I am positive if you are mattioli you know perfectly well what a 3rd party financing scenario looks like and if you are not, you are still no slouch, you are spinning this hi fi. These people have capacity, you should consider joining them. The fact they are willing to do this without making a profit is confounding, did you assess the financials she presented? pig in a poke my ass. Where the hell did that come from, they have done their homework!

    Myth 4 K-8 9 classes, 1 teacher 1 aid each, 2 maintenance, 1 admin, 1 office, 1 nurse 2 resource, 2 kitchen, yeah you are right, more like 27. Oh and they mentioned preschool too didn’t they ok 31. shall we do the ADA numbers, maybe you are not Mattioli after all? huh? we can do that too, wanna, ESL immersion, hmmm ADA, wanna go there hi fi.

    Myth 5: 215000/year lease, $1 /square foot, 18,000 sq foot, check out what fuente is paying per sq ft for bloomfield in arcata,AND arcata city schools is profiting uuuuhhhh PROFIT now am I speaking your language? 1/2 the number of students, and what is their budget for the Arcata campus? close to a million, uh oh wrong again Hi Fi

    do your homework hi fi, I’ve been attending these meetings this negative spin discrediting engineers, doctors, nurses, executive directors, artists, lawyers, mothers, grandmothers, artists, physicists, activists, politicians, accountants,teachers, principals, oh my god consulted by national mortgage brokers and financial advisors. your spin only works so long. This committee has gained in number, gained in strength, spread to every nook of the community, had outside professionals assess the feasibility, has donated, offered, volunteered stood up and is clearly being seen as a threat. THAT is why the project is getting the negative spin, NOT because it is “ludicrous”. Ludicrous is believing the have a chance, look at history in Eureka and Humboldt County.

    Keep trying committee, I’ll keep coming, your efforts have already gained so much community support that there is no taking away what you stand for. When is the next work party? By the way, the place looks great, sorry to hear about the windows, I got the email, ECS wont let you pay a local glass company starving for business, full price to fix them? What a sad sad black mark on the face of this community.

    So spin away, it isn’t working.

  35. Only fact that matters
    January 3, 2011 at 11:04 am

    PJ, nothing confusing about my post; IMHO. Simply trying to point out once again, that you should not spend money to buy an asset, when you do not have a firm commitment for ALL of the money needed to actually follow through on the intended project. In this case, the millions needed to renovate and implement any adaptive re-use. “The funds will flow” comment is what will happen when you HAVE in advance the full commitment (lets call it a grant commitment)BEFORE you buy the property. Then you can buy, because the money to renovate and do the project is CERTAIN.
    That is what is missing now from any proposal so far. You don’t buy on the hope of getting the additional money. It is not done that way.

  36. Mitch
    January 3, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Only fact that matters,

    What grant commitment(s) would you like to see from the neighborhood group prior to the city’s committing to purchase the property? If that grant commitment were in hand with a time-window of three months to complete the purchase, would you have other objections?

  37. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 11:27 am

    But as you claimed in your first post, Only Fact, no funds are committed to any project until the interested party actually owns the site. Expecting any business to commit funds to a project on such shaky political ground, caused entirely by the new council deciding to put it on hold, is absurd. If the project happens and they are still interested at whatever future time the council decides to keep their word to the community, the funds will be there. If the council dithers away a chance to improve the neighborhood and create employment opportunities, they will be held accountable. Newman pretending his opposition to the WS project was supported by a majority in his ward is nonsense since the 2 progressive candidates received a majority of the votes.

  38. Quick Question
    January 3, 2011 at 11:28 am

    If the city were to go ahead and buy the property at a below market price, wouldn’t it be able to potentially make a profit by selling the property on the open market if the current project plan didn’t provide the expected income? Wouldn’t the city profit either way?

  39. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    There seems to be the impression that CR’s purchase would be a “sure thing”. Any purchase and upgrade by CR would need to be approved by the Board of Trustees and they would be under a lot of scrutiny to explain why it makes sense in the current (and future) state funding crisis to expand. And it they are not expanding ( just moving the 6th and K site to Jefferson), why are they using dollars that are desperately needed for many other deferred maintenance projects throughout their three county district?

    You can be sure that students, staff, community members, and faculty will put a fight and storm the Board meetings and go to the papers. Like Violet (posted above) there is plenty of students and community members who think purchase of another site will NOT help students, but rather create even more students traveling between sites to finish their degrees. The small sites can’t provide everything and there is a fixed number of staff and faculty to run the show.
    Additionally, CR like most community colleges has a revolving door administration. They are three years into the current president who said he would stay for five years. It is very probable that CR would purchase the site only to have a new Board and president pull the plug and put the site back on the market without making upgrades or creating jobs.

    Seems like this uncertainty should be mentioned when you are talking about the “uncertainty” of the neighborhood plan.

  40. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 12:09 pm

    I have worked for public schools for decades. There is no public school in Northern California that could ever afford to pay $215,000 in rent – not one – not even close.

    Somebody mentioned a kitchen facility in Arcata. Do they pay $215,000 a year rent ?

  41. Living In Eureka
    January 3, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    I believe the kitchen in Arcata rents for $70 per hour & there is a waiting list. At just 40 hours a week, this would bring in 156,000 per year!

  42. Queso Pendejo
    January 3, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Hey Fuente Nueva!
    If your school can afford $18K/month, then why not buy the property directly from ECS?
    Then the rest of us can get back to our regularly scheduled infighting.

  43. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    The now repeated claim that only one tenant would be responsible for the entire rent is a strawman. When you have to resort to lies to make your case, you don’t have one.

  44. Annonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Living in Eureka; how many hours a week is that kitchen in Arcata rented out for? Who rents it out? I thought the prospective tenant in Eureka was a charter school. What groups in Eureka would rent a kitchen ?

    If you’re not willing to discuss the issue like an adult Plain Jane, do us all a favor and just STFU.

  45. Only fact that matters
    January 3, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    PJ, I am always amazed at the literary discretion you inject into your posting. I never said what you claim in your first sentence “no funds are committed until the interested party actually owns the site”. I said just the opposite. That the acquisition must be conditioned on having funding in place for the full project. GET THE GRANT (CONDITIONED UPON CLOSING ESCROW)THEN CLOSE ESCROW.
    Grants are conditioned this way all the time; no different that getting a grant conditioned upon matching funds from the local jurisdiction for public projects. Prove you have the matching funds, and you get the grant money.

  46. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    Direct quote, Only Fact, “There is no firm commitment of funds necessary to renovate the site and create any project; no matter what it might be.” and “And yes, grants are conditionally approved all the time; in this case, on the succesful acquisition of the site. Then the funds flow.”

    If you aren’t capable of understanding your own posts which state that firm commitments don’t occur until after acquisition and then funds flow, you might be in need of remedial reading and writing classes. Maybe rather than opposing this project you could work to get some of the classes you need offered there.

  47. Living In Eureka
    January 3, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    There are are several local commercial businesses that produce products that need a commercial inspected kitchen. These are commercial food product businesses. You will have to get the list either from the Arcata Kitchen or WCG (I know they have the list). The kitchen in Arcata is rented to the max now. The kitchen at the Jefferson School would be rented at night after the children have gone home & on the weekends.

    The expense of construction & equipment is the reason these businesses usually start out renting space to begin with. I is a great deal all the way around!

  48. Only fact that matters
    January 3, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Hey PJ, I am now going to condescend to your level of posting and ignore future ones; as you are clearly too daft to “get a clue”
    You now (and probably have all along) understood the essence of my post.

    GFY and quite posting in circles; it just amplifies your ignorance.

  49. Living In Eureka
    January 3, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    By the way……The city of Arcata now owns this kitchen, so they receive the revenue from this venture! We should be so lucky here in Eureka!

  50. Plain Jane
    January 3, 2011 at 1:21 pm

    Making up shit and changing your story doesn’t change what was posted, Only Fact. The essence of your post is and was bogus. You are probably Newman. You sound just like him.

  51. Mitch
    January 3, 2011 at 2:20 pm

    Only fact,

    I’m still wondering about your answers to my 11:25 comment.

    Don’t you agree it would be helpful to those trying to help the Jefferson School neighborhood if they knew what constituted sufficient preparation for the city to make the purchase?

    Just from reading the blogs, the problem seems to be that some newly elected officials don’t feel the neighborhood group has completed the necessary groundwork, but those same newly elected officials have not been willing to say what groundwork would be sufficient for them to accept the project.

    That’s the sort of thing that sometimes makes a neighborhood group feel like it is not being sincerely invited to participate, and makes the cynics among us wonder whether anything the neighborhood group comes up with would be sufficient to change some elected officials opinions of the project.

  52. Here's An Idea
    January 3, 2011 at 2:36 pm

    If the council refuses to budge on this after all this hard work, I recommend getting an initiative on the ballot. This council is obviously self-interested and oblivious to what a core group of neighbors living around Jefferson School want.

    I have heard no dissent from any other residents in the neighborhood, just from these naysayers on the council.

  53. Bolithio
    January 3, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    What about the 6th myth, that the school is actually intended to be a secret Muslim training camp? Thats why I’m against the school…

  54. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    “makes us wonder if anything the neighborhood group comes up with would be sufficient to change some elected officials opinions of the project.”

    no, they are idiots, they are wasting our time, we have a buyer, we have a plan, we have all along we have just been trying to out wait these fools, we had to out wait a whole council until that little traitor Leonard went away, we sure wont let that happen again!

  55. Only fact
    January 3, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    Mitch, I agree with your analysis; there seems to be a distrust amongst the council and stakeholders; and clearly a lack of factual understanding of just what the goal line looks like. After all the hard work, thinking your advancing the ball down the field, to be told you did not get there, but not told why; is frustrating.
    I think an attempt was made at telling “why they did not get there” but it lacks specificity. That can only happen with direct meetings and direct milestones and deliverables articulated.
    IMHO; it really comes down to money, and its lack of commitment in advance of the purchase. With that said, there may be many ways to do that. Perhaps the current council and the stakeholders can stand down long enough to have a more direct and informative discussion on what that is. I know it goes beyond what has been done thus far. In the real world of “redevelopment projects” you have to nail down all the money up front, not just what it takes to buy the asset.

  56. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    “we have a buyer”

    …and the buyer is… YOU. CR will be using your property taxes (or indirectly your rent) to buy this property. This property tax funded bond was never meant for buying buildings.
    Remember this the next time your kids or neighbors complain about the condition of CR facilities; especially if they are not involved in one of the few programs to be held at Jefferson.
    I’d rather have CR spend my property tax money fixing their pool and making sure the rooms have heat.
    If I lived in Del Norte or Mendocino, I’d be even more outraged that my property tax funds were being used on an old elementary school in Eureka while the CR campuses in Crescent City and Fort Bragg continue to fall apart.

  57. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    The council needs a firm commitment and money designated to it, and the people with the ideas don’t have the money, just the idea. It’s what it boils down to, so of course there is a problem with it from both perspectives. One group has a dream but no money and the other group is worried about how it will pan out as their reputations and the budget is at stake. Neither are wrong.

  58. Annonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    “Here’s an Idea”; I agree, put the issue on the ballot. However it won’t be just a few Jefferson neighbors voting but it would be city wide. It would be shot down by a bigger margin than Measure N was passed. The rest of us don’t want our tax dollars drained for this piece of nonsense.

  59. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    “The rest of us don’t want our tax dollars drained for this piece of nonsense.”

    Then why are you willing to let CR spend your tax dollars on this nonsense?
    It comes out of your property tax each year – measure Q. Approved for a variety of upgrades and deferred maintenance projects (like the pool) – but new campus purchases was never mentioned. And, not a dime of measure Q can be used to run the campus, so that all has to be pulled away from the existing seven campuses.

  60. Dwayne Montane
    January 3, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Please PJ and Only Fact That Matters let’s keep this out of the gutter. Anyone can post GFY!
    Most grant funders i know are not interested in proposals based on a hypotheticals, like the closing of escrow. Foundations typically like funding a solid project. Of course HAF, Mclean(etc..) would fund projects with a school, but not before the school is purchased. They could say they are interested, but nothing more.

    This issue needs to be aired out in a public meeting separate from a city council meeting. What council member will call for it? Where’s the leadership?

  61. Quick Question
    January 3, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    I’m still wondering if anyone has any thoughts on whether or not the city could, once it owns it, make a profit on the sale of the property (to CR, the Arkleys, infill developers, whomever) if the funding fell through for the current project? Would that collateral not be sufficient to protect the taxpayers from loss?

    If so, given that collateral, don’t you think taxpayers would support redevelopment projects that are projected to create jobs, clean up blighted properties, encourage neighborhood cooperation, reduce crime and create positive revenue streams for the Redevelopment Agency? Am I missing something?

    Heidi? HiFi? Mitch? Mr. Newman? Anyone?

  62. Not A Native
    January 3, 2011 at 4:47 pm

    What assurance exists that Arkley has the necessary funds available and dedicated to complete the Marina Center project? I’ll tell you, the answer, no assurance at all. Now you can respond that for a private project who cares what the risks are, but you’d be revealing your prejudices. Because the use of land in Eureka affects everyone and when a private scheme fails, many are negatively affected(how about that ice house and (samoa)pulp mill, huh?). And the whole country is hurting because private lenders made crazy loans and the losses are being apportioned to the entire economy.

    So whats really behind the Jefferson opposition is they don’t like WHO is promoting the plan, not about the plan itself. Eureka residents ought to think hard about that. Their local elected officials being prejudiced against residents who want to have control over the changes in their own neighborhoods.

  63. A-Nony-Mouse
    January 3, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    HA HA HA HA leadership? The council should be leading the parade to make it better instead of stumbling around in the horseshit left behind as the parade passed them by.
    I swear there are some on here that, when given a Prime Fillet Mignon, would INSIST it was just hamburger. I don’t know if they can’t understand or just don’t know what they’re looking at. It’s almost as if they get paid to argue and spread lies and untruths. Hmmmm?

  64. Dwayne Montane
    January 3, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Surely HiFi:
    1. Is paid by Arkley
    2.

  65. Dwayne Montane
    January 3, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Whoops typo. Let’s try that again.
    HiFi either:

    1.Is paid by Arkley
    2.Has a infatuation with lefty blogs
    3.Glutton for punishment
    4.Or is a right winger with to much time on his hands.

  66. Only fact
    January 3, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    Dwayne Montane; if the right deal was put together, buying the school would not be a “hypothetical”; but rather a piece of a multi tiered simultaneous transaction. That is what is missing here. Redevelopment Agencies up and down the state enter into Owner Participation Agreements (OPA’s) and Disposition and Development Agreements (DDA’s) based upon certainty of funding and project implementation. It can be a mix of Grants and/or loans. But they are all verified in advance based upon a real project. And land is not sold/bought unless all the agreements and commitments exist.
    Thats whats missing here.

  67. January 3, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    It is my belief that Casa Lindra,smokin Moses bbq sauce and bless my soul sauces for sale use the arcata kitchen,I’m sure there are more

  68. humboldturtle
    January 3, 2011 at 5:48 pm

    The old Top 5 were better:

    1. Ghost of Mabel lives in the attic
    2. Robin Arkley Sr. threw up on the principal in ’32
    3. Richard Marks used to work there
    4. Tom Hannah laid the cornerstone
    5. They closed it ‘cuz Jefferson was too liberal

  69. humboldturtle
    January 3, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    PS. Ignore all the other comments. Just read mine.

  70. FoxStudio
    January 3, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    I predict that Eureka will remain the City of “NO!”

    Heaven forbid that regular citizens should put forth a good, well-thought out plan for a property that will benefit the city. No developer profit to be had, so It Must Die.

    It’s so much easier to take potshots in total ignorance of how projects like this are put together. ‘Cause actually educating yourselves might take a little time and effort.

    There are some legitimate concerns expressed in some of the comments and some questions that should be answered, but they’re pretty much buried in a sea of mindless, knee jerk negativity. In other words, business as usual in Eureka.

  71. someone else
    January 3, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Only the Fact, With the City saying that they would purchase the school and now sending signals that they wont, i doubt anyone would sign an agreement.

  72. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    It hurts to admit that it may be true: Eureka may be the City where good ideas go to die.

  73. Only fact
    January 3, 2011 at 6:46 pm

    Why is it so hard to understand that the condition upon which the City (any City redevelopment agency for that matter) would proceed with buying, would be if there were an OPA or a DDA in effect covering the entire project. They are not willing to buy because an overall viable, secured funding, third party agreement does not exist. At least that is why this new council is questioning the purchase. As I said earlier, that is what the City and the Stakeholders should discuss; and how to achieve that deal structure.

  74. Mrs. P
    January 3, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    The city has nothing to lose in the proposed Jefferson park and community center project. I don’t understand why Brady and Newman don’t get that. If the neighborhood project fails, the city still has the property. They’d likely sell it to some developer who would turn it into low-income apartments (because they have to build them somewhere) and further screw the neighborhood. I don’t live there but totally support what the neighbors are trying to do. All the other neighborhoods in the city have city-operated parks and facilities … why shouldn’t the Jefferson neighborhood? Look what happened at Hammond Park — it takes volunteers and some elbow grease but I love what I see there. It should happen in the Jefferson neighborhood. And can!

  75. Mrs. P
    January 3, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Humboldturtle at 5:58 — are you talking about Mabel Riccatelli? She and Bonnie Gool (wasn’t it Benzenolli-Gool? Any relation to Heidi?) really made things interesting back in the day. Fond memories … or something.

    Bonnie Gool pushed hard to set up the Redevelopment Agency if I remember correctly. And Mabel Riccatelli just liked to remind council people who they worked for. Eureka City Council meetings have always been fun.

    And remember, Tom Hannah was a C-R administrator. It’s funny he and Leo Sears (worked in the TAX assessor’s office of all places or some similar government office)rag on taxpayers’ money being spent to do whatever … but that’s what they did for their whole careers. All the dots connect at some point.

    Be nice people. Treat your neighbor how you’d want to be treated.

    And they closed Jefferson because it was in a poor neighborhood and even though there were standing room only meetings with parents, neighbors and a filled – to capacity school, the Lundbar Hills families were going to Grant and Washington.

    And does anyone else notice, the Times-Standard map of garage sales and open houses lists Franklin School as a landmark? How long has it been gone?

  76. textwrapper
    January 3, 2011 at 7:52 pm

    Thanks to Lisa Ollivier, Sylvia Scott and Heidi Benzoneli for the information, and to Heraldo for posting it.

  77. Word on the street
    January 3, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Listen to people in the know. Bankers, realtors, architects, the money people and developers. They are all saying this is a stupid idea. They are shaking their heads at the foolishness of our local elected officials.

    The only people for it are people with no experience of any kind in this field.

  78. anon1
    January 3, 2011 at 8:11 pm

    Hi/fi —was on the hiring committee for Melinda he is a tool for frank who, is a tool for arkley…Frank feeds the likes of hi/fi’s ego..So he will do SPECIAL favors for frank..like making shit up and throwing some paint on it to make it look good..BEWARE of the group, someone private has a big opportunity to make a bunch of money guess who? big trades going on behind the scenes..Watch where the money goes and future favors..Like jet airplane rides..Its about private money not people..Screw the people..This city throws money away all the time and now we have a project that might need a little bit of help for a while and now the conservatives scream..Where the hell have you all been with the waste david has been leaving behind him every step of the way..If we have to throw away money at least we can all say we tried something for the people not subsidizing boardwalks and improvements to benefit a few rich people..How much did the cranes on the boardwalk cost and we don’t even have a need..fisherman’s terminal…What fishermen?

  79. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 3, 2011 at 8:13 pm

    Word on the street says:
    January 3, 2011 at 8:00 pm
    Listen to people in the know. Bankers, realtors, architects, the money people and developers. They are all saying this is a stupid idea. They are shaking their heads at the foolishness of our local elected officials.

    The only people for it are people with no experience of any kind in this field.

    Response:Is it because they won’t make money; or, no person will make money; or, are we talikng a different strategy? Afterall, I think many of these types of occupationists lost their wits in the financial scandals still unresolved, house mess, credit card scams, insurance scams, regulatory kick-back scams and grants for specific businesses, etc….

    Yep lots to gain and lots to lose – what feels better near the croch pocket though? Loose change a jingling and jangling; or, white pockets flipped outwardly?

    JL

  80. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 8:20 pm

    whatever, JL

  81. Joel Mielke
    January 3, 2011 at 8:21 pm

    “Hi/fi —was on the hiring committee…” As far as I know, HiFi is anonymous.

    “How much did the cranes on the boardwalk cost…?” Now that’s an interesting question.

  82. anon1
    January 3, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    word on the street…yeah we trusted all those people and now where are we…The reason they’re not for the project..is because there isn’t a pay off for them..remember,if there is no money in it for money people its not a good idea..If you aren’t for this project its because you have nothing to gain or someone told you how to think..This is a no brain-er..and I’ve been a profitable business owner for 40+ years..hmmm..

  83. anon1
    January 3, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Hench..much more eloquent.. we were both typing at the same time..but, I think in agreeance..

  84. Anonymous
    January 3, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Anon1 you can be against something without being financially involved if you think it will end up being a burden to the taxpayers and a failure, or if you think it won’t serve enough people to pencil out, or if you don’t have faith in its leadership. I am not saying I am against this project, but don’t think a person must profit from something to want to be involved or not in the decisions about it.

  85. Tiger
    January 3, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Will become it the next C Street House?

  86. Living In Eureka
    January 3, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Let’s see now….. there was the millions spent on new water meters we didn’t need……$200,000 on the last lawsuit……$120,000 on police cars, while the last 5 the city purchased still haven’t made to the streets yet….. $145,00 for a new street sweeper that we can not pay someone to operate nor can we even afford to pay for signs to tell you when to move the car so the damn thing can actually clean the gutters…. Oh and don’t forget the $100,000 the good ol’ Boys want at the Chamber! And that my friends comes right out of the General Fund!!!!!!

    We spend money in this city like it’s water. We really don’t accomplish much with it, but they can sure spend it!

  87. Tiger
    January 3, 2011 at 9:55 pm

    Yup. Eureka is corrupt, all right. Starting with its Ward System.

    Millions of OUR TAX DOLLARS have gone to the Chamber of Commerce. Where did the money go?

  88. Heidi
    January 3, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    Quick Question, of course they could.

  89. taxed
    January 3, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    We on the Westside do not want more low income crap buildings running the west side into the ground. Let’s all remember that Redevelopment gave The Serenity Inn and several other halfway houses loans to buy their houses and motels on the westside. This is discrimination against a certain part of town. If Redevelopment can force these disgusting places on us how can they not give a neighborhood a park. Can you imagine a group of people so stupid (Redevelopment) that they would pay to put The Serenity Inn on the 101 corridor, the gateway to Eureka. Serenity Inn 450 calls in a year from fire and police. Everyone’s taxes.

  90. Heidi
    January 3, 2011 at 10:46 pm

    And the neighbors working together on Security Foot Patrols and communicating with the EPD have eliminated drug activity and graffiti at the Jefferson site, maintained the property and are begging to let them pay for the repair of the broken windows to no avail, there is something seriously wrong with the way things work around here.

  91. scammed
    January 3, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    The biggest scam is the Chamber of Commerce getting $100,000. For what?

  92. January 3, 2011 at 11:24 pm

    It’s so much easier to take potshots in total ignorance of how projects like this are put together. ‘Cause actually educating yourselves might take a little time and effort.

    We are only a few days into this year, and this comment fragment hits the spot. Bravo!

    No matter what ultimately happens, I applaud the neighbors of this property for being proactive, and not apathetic.

  93. skippy
    January 3, 2011 at 11:34 pm

    There’s nothing I’d like more than seeing this project come to fruition. I’ve been staying closely informed and on top of the situation. You’ve ALL done an admirable job.

    The most serious nuts and bolts of the fiscal reality will be addressed before the Council. This is the hardest part of all– and perhaps the last chance. My friends, I want to see you prevail. But how?

    Please bear with me for a moment; hopeful plans of possible grants and tenants, potential funds for renovation, and lack of site control may not be a successful argument, especially given our current climate you’ve already seen. I’m sorry, I’m with you, I’ve read the material, it’s hopefully tenuous, you know that… and why. But wait. May I offer something?

    HiFi at 10:03am, right or wrong in his opinion, gave a very useful template– and a hidden pearl in disguise– for you to use. Preparing, addressing, planning, and answering the tough questions he offered are tantamount for success before the Council, I believe.

    Heidi and the WCG, please use them to your advantage. Just my two cents of intuition and observation. Thank you for your patience in this kind regard.

    peace, skips

  94. Anonymous
    January 4, 2011 at 12:16 am

    skip define improve

  95. Mitch
    January 4, 2011 at 8:07 am

    How’s about if this year’s Chamber grant goes instead to the westside neighborhood group, so they can pay the people who have been doing research, cleanup, maintenance, and security?

    Or perhaps both groups could be invited to do presentations to the city council, entitled “What We Accomplished for Eureka in 2010,” and then the money could be allocated based on accomplishment.

  96. Anonymous
    January 4, 2011 at 8:27 am

    What a great idea Mitch, but, the Westside Community Group, did not do this for money, they do it because they are taking responsibility for where they live, like upstanding citizens do the improvement in their community is the reward. The fact that they can not pay out of their own pockets for window replacement smacks of discrimination and political maneuvering, by both the school district and the city.

  97. Anonymous
    January 4, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Other local business that use the commercial kitchen space in Arcata-
    Renata’s Creperie, Barry’s Theatre Cookies, Planet Chai, Lacey’s Cookies
    This space is always in demand, and I know of many folks that are on the waiting list. The incubator kitchen would have every hour that is available booked-no questions!

  98. Mitch
    January 4, 2011 at 8:35 am

    Well, anonymous, the Chamber is a big believer in the free market, you know, competition. So competition for the grants that might previously have been automatically given to the Chamber seems like a great idea — and I know all the Chamber types will agree.

    I realize that the neighborhood group did what it did out of a love of their neighbors and community, but I don’t think the City Council should penalize them for that when giving out grants. Maybe the Council can overlook those good intentions, and recognize that the grant should be given for accomplishment even if the group had good intentions as well. Nobody’s perfect.

  99. skippy
    January 4, 2011 at 9:00 am

    Thank you for the reminder and admonition, Anonymous
    @12:26. Improve. Enhance, make better, increase in value or
    quality, use for a good purpose, an addition… “Things will get
    better despite our efforts to improve them” ~Will Rogers (cowboy,
    humorist, vaudeville actor, 1879-1935) …The City Council is
    expected to welcome aboard and approve Ms. Melinda Ciarabellini’s
    appointment as Council member for Ward 4 at a special meeting at
    4:30:
    http://www.ci.eureka.ca.gov/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=6875
    … followed by the regular meeting tonight, 1/4/11, at 6pm:
    http://www.ci.eureka.ca.gov/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=6874
    (The longer 152 page agenda format in detail):
    http://www.ci.eureka.ca.gov/civica/filebank/blobdload.asp?BlobID=6876
    Hope to see you there.

  100. Anonymous
    January 4, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Nobody takes any of your screeching about the Chamber getting $100,000 seriously, it is painfully obvious this is just bitter partisan politics.

    Two big reasons that point out your total hypocrisy & lies.

    – First, the city makes money on the deal. Increased tourism brings in even more bed tax and sales tax dollars to EUREKA businesses.

    – Second is the fact that the Convention Bureau, which doesn’t even concentrate on Eureka businesses, gets $200,000 from the city & nobody complains.

  101. Mitch
    January 4, 2011 at 9:24 am

    The Convention Bureau gets $200K from the City of Eureka?!

    Has anyone ever done an independent study of whether the convention bureau brings in any conventions?

    I’d say that’s $200K that needs to be reevaluated, wouldn’t you?

  102. Mitch
    January 4, 2011 at 9:25 am

    You know, seriously, folks.

    This just illustrates how much money sloshes about, nice and quiet and in the dark, for those with connections.

    The next time the City or County tells you there’s no money for, say, feeding poor people, you’ll know where it went.

  103. Plain Jane
    January 4, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Eureka would get the sales tax without giving a dime to the Chamber. Have there been any actual studies which show the Chamber has any effect on the number of tourists or the amount of money they spend here or is it just assumed that people come here because of Chamber ads? I personally have never visited anywhere due to Chamber ads and I doubt that has much effect on any tourists, especially with any information people want available at infinite web sites about every place in the world. Let the privatizing cheerleaders pay for their own business ads.

  104. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 4, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Living In Eureka says:
    January 3, 2011 at 9:43 pm
    Let’s see now….. there was the millions spent on new water meters we didn’t need……$200,000 on the last lawsuit……$120,000 on police cars, while the last 5 the city purchased still haven’t made to the streets yet….. $145,00 for a new street sweeper that we can not pay someone to operate nor can we even afford to pay for signs to tell you when to move the car so the damn thing can actually clean the gutters…. Oh and don’t forget the $100,000 the good ol’ Boys want at the Chamber! And that my friends comes right out of the General Fund!!!!!!

    We spend money in this city like it’s water. We really don’t accomplish much with it, but they can sure spend it!

    Response: Yep, those water meters/valves were an internal city fraud for fees and charges.

    Question: Why would the City of Eureka be dissatisfied with 1 inch service lines, instruct people that they would get their meters/valves replaced to 3/4″, for free (on the taxpayers’ dime that is)?

    Answer: cuz the insider city people know that with 2nd units, remodels, additions, etc… and such, no extra fees could be gotten from a water meter or valve set-up that which is already “SIZED” for a 2nd unit AND ADDED FIRE SUPPRESSION NEEDS due to a higher volume of water.

    The water meter/valve changes were a ruse and scam by city schemers so that they could charge homeowners to re-upsize the formerly downsized water main valve/meter. Yes, I am sure the argument of meter efficiency is real as well.

    The StreetSweeper: it is a fraud when the city has no ordinances for ensuring parking standards are mitigated for when the street sweeping is done. I have said for years that this area needs to be like Long Beach, California’s street sweeping ability – effective. Why do taxpayers want to pay for an ass-sitter weaving in and out of parking spaces instead of a straight path to doing the job RIGHT the first time? Too much tax dollars go to salaries for the ineffective leaders at the top, departments too!

    Such the blockheads that oversee the street sweeping, imo.

    JL

  105. Anonymous
    January 4, 2011 at 9:44 pm

    Skips, I wan not admonishing you,(never) I was looking for the pearl.

  106. Anonymous
    January 5, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Rio Dell’s police station is the size of the Jefferson School.Eureka is a “gangster villa” for illegal immigrants.Most parts of Eureka you definitely don’t want to walk through at night.Fuck the meters and the street sweeper! Buy some goddamn streetlights and hire more cops.

  107. "JG"
    January 5, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    If the ladies of the westside think this is such a great deal let’s see thm put some skin in the game. Why should I give up tax dollars to support their pet project. If we’ve got extra money laying around why not fix my street or lower my water bill. Its easy to spend someone else’s money.

  108. Anonymous
    January 5, 2011 at 11:08 pm

    How bout we give it to the Chamber?

  109. tra
    January 6, 2011 at 1:44 am

    “Eureka is a “gangster villa” for illegal immigrants. Most parts of Eureka you definitely don’t want to walk through at night.”

    I feel sorry for anyone who actually lives in such a delusional state of fear. You need to seek psychiatric help.

  110. Anonymous
    January 6, 2011 at 10:50 am

    I agree. If you avoid Broadway & everything west of Broadway where all the vagrant zombies hang out you will find Eureka a very nice place.

    Oh wait. Avoid Old Town after 5pm. Also all around Second & third for the about three blocks at the west end as well. The Boardwalk isn’t a place to be around without an escort either.

    Then there is Cooper Gulch.

  111. anon1
    January 6, 2011 at 5:11 pm

    Channel 6 news just called Newman a liar…CR isn’t interested and hasn’t talked to the city council for about a year and they are looking, but Jefferson isn’t a consideration..Already caught lying..Recall, Recall, Recall..

  112. Big Al
    January 6, 2011 at 6:25 pm

    that was channel 3 KIEM TV

  113. Anonymous
    January 6, 2011 at 6:40 pm

    Are you all kidding? I walk anywhere anytime in Eureka without fear. In fact I regularly walk my dog from the foot of del norte to the Samoa bridge at night. The drunks at the bar on 1st and C screeching out of the parking lot and down waterfront drive are the scariest individuals I cross, once in while there is someone down on their luck that may ask me a question or something but mainly they hide in shame and sorrow. These “vagrant zombies” are people. You are more of a threat to them then they are to you.

  114. Anonymous
    January 6, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Seems Mr. New-man is disingenuous, who is surprised? Let’s hope the Jefferson escrow closes so these folks can get on with it. Anyone out there with the title company? What is the hold up, 3 city councils ago Mr. Tyson said all the “letters” were ready to go and reviewed by both sides attorneys. I saw the city council meeting when Mr. Tyson himself said, the budget was adjusted and funds appropriated.

    Here we are with a real opportunity for JOBS NOW, construction, teaching, start up food producers or vendors, painters, carpenters, window companies etc etc and a great school with a track record of excellence at the table, what is the possible reason to continue to drag your feet? No money will flow anywhere as long as nothing changes. Get out of the way of progress in this community. Please

  115. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 6, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    Hey,

    if the city can spend money on a new doggy park that most people will probably DRIVE TO, then why again could not that doggy park have been designed into a refurbished west side/Jefferson planned project Center? Not enough floor space left over when that huge playground is torn and tilled? Some other reason.

    My point being is that money has flowed to piss arse projects that do nothing for economic development (skatepark too in Coopers Gulch). So, why does a doggy park and a skatepark get more leverage and political priority by elected officials than a neighborhood which is part of the backbone to the overall community?

    JL

  116. The Monitor
    January 6, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    It could have had a doggie park, a skateboard park, what ever, but in the end it should serve a neighborhood need. Why is that so hard for the local neo cons to understand? Talk about having one’s head in the sand.

  117. Heidi
    January 6, 2011 at 11:06 pm

    How ’bout one of you figure out how we can fix the windows. We have the money, we have 3 bids from 3 Eurekan owned glass companies. We have a clean bill of environmental health to proceed and at last “ask” we could not get access nor improve the property while it is in escrow. Really? The glass companies have insurance, there are people in and out of that building regularly. It looks terrible. This whole group in all their efforts only works to improve our community. Maybe someone out there is more creative or connected then us. Any ideas?

  118. anon1
    January 7, 2011 at 5:52 am

    Just do it and deal with the consequences..Remember the city does that all the time..Are they going to arrest you for doing something GOOD..ooh there must have been a miscommunication..Sorry. Helps keep someone from burning it down..

  119. Walt
    January 7, 2011 at 6:09 am

    They have a “wonderful mandate to rule.” It doesn’t have to make sense.

  120. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 7, 2011 at 8:31 am

    Heidi,

    gather the paries together and see if conditions can be added to the sale to allow windows to be fixed immediately – remember though, each day of delay means your go-ahead to replace is lessened due to new laws that will say the windows you want to use are no longer allowable since standards are always changing. General Contractors and Developers do that crud all the time with homeowners to be. So, why would it be any different? Is it because it is public property? Escrow is still escrow and to this date, I have yet to see 2 separate escrow process.

    Windows – why does Eureka make applicants pay for permits for windows that are supposed to be emergency escape windows, fenestration for light, etc…; yet, I sure see a lot of boarded up windows in operating businesses and occupied residences.

    My point is that the regulations imposed on so many mean really nothing because there exists no intention to enforce the laws because it allows those politicians to justify their jobs through chaos and control manifested by malicious inactions….just for starters.

    JL

  121. Anon2
    January 7, 2011 at 11:13 am

    Anon1 is cracked in his post at 5.11pm. First, Channel 6 has no local news. But most importantly, C/R is still interested.

    Reported in this mornings Times Standard, the C/R pres says they are still interested but only if the city backs out.

  122. Plain Jane
    January 7, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    But that isn’t what he said AT ALL, Anon2. Quoting from the T-S, “Marsee said in a statement that CR would not be involved in any negotiations with Eureka City Schools regarding Jefferson School, unless the city decides not to buy the property and the CR board expresses an interest in reviewing the issue.

    In other words, they aren’t interested.

  123. Anon2
    January 7, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Says you. The reality is that they are just waiting to see what happens.

  124. Plain Jane
    January 7, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    You deliberately left off the most pertinent part of the quote out of deceit because you know that what Marsee said was that CR is not interested. IF the city doesn’t buy it and IF at some point in the future the CR board decides to review it means they have not discussed buying it if the city reneges on its agreement to purchase and certainly haven’t decided to.

  125. Anony2
    January 7, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    You only think that because you are not connected Plain Jane and depend on the Times Standard for your news. Or worse yet, Heidi and Humboldt Herald.

  126. Plain Jane
    January 7, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    You brought up the T-S article and misrepresented what it said. Now that your deception has been revealed, you want to discredit your own source. One doesn’t have to be “connected” to recognize BS when they smell it.

  127. Quick Question
    January 7, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    Wouldn’t the city want to own it first? As of now, if the city doesn’t buy it, doesn’t that mean that ECS gets to sell it to CR or whomever they want without the city’s input? Why wouldn’t it make sense for the city to buy it so that they can realize that profit regardless of whether it’s a school/kitchen or CR or a residential development project or whatever?

    Can anyone explain the rationale of the opposition to the city acquiring this seemingly lucrative property other than perceived political differences? I’d like to see solid numbers from this proposal too, but the city seems likely to get squat from anybody if they don’t go ahead with the purchase, as previously unanimously agreed.

  128. just the facts
    January 8, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    What many of these comments don’t acknowledge is that CR IS OVERBUILT: IT HAS TOO MANY EMPTY CLASSROOMS ALREADY and does not need (and cannot afford) to take on yet another instructional site. There are several reports that prove this fact, if only Marsee and CR’s Trustees would bother to pay attention to them. These pesky facts (and CR’s fiscal realities) always seem to get in the way of Marsee’s delusional and grandiose visions, however, and CR is suffering because of it. Is anyone on this discussion thread fully aware of the depth of CR’s financial crisis? You should try to educate yourself about the current state of your valued community college.

  129. Anonymous
    January 8, 2011 at 6:29 pm

    Get some facts, Just the Facts. Jefferson will not be a “new” campus. It will replace the existing campus in Eureka. In the long run it will save C/R money.

  130. just the facts
    January 8, 2011 at 10:58 pm

    Anonymous: if you want to save money, closing one of CR’s existing campuses would be a good place to start. You don’t seem to comprehend that CR has too many empty, unused classrooms already–why create more? Why even switch out one campus for another, especially when that dwindling Measure Q bond money is desperately needed for deferred maintenance on CR’s existing campuses? Also: you may not know (especially if you are a CR Board member) that last spring, the Clarus Corporation (a scheduling consultant hired by CR) informed the district that the Arcata Instructional site and the McKinleyville site were in direct competition for enrollments, and that one of them should be closed to save money and increase scheduling efficiency. Marsee covered up this finding, though, and kept this information from the Board. I cannot understand why in the world a president and a board of an institution would want to waste so much money, instead of prudently and efficiently guarding its resources. It totally defies all logic.

  131. Goldie
    January 8, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    The property needs to be sold to a public entity. If CR were to buy it and then in time could sell it to a private party it would be a way to get the property into the hands of developers. That might make some folks very happy.

  132. just the facts
    January 9, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Goldie: So this is the logic? Marsee could use taxpayer money (and financially ruin our community college in the process) in order to grease the wheels for his developer friends?

  133. Anonymous
    January 9, 2011 at 9:30 am

    and turn a profit

  134. High Finance
    January 10, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Wash out your mouth 9.30am.

    “Profit” is a dirty word here.

  135. Goldie
    January 10, 2011 at 10:57 am

    There is plenty of profit in the plan presented by Heidi. renting the property to a charter school, drawing students from other communities because it offers a different educational slant, and using the rooms for other services, including commercial kitchens, will create profit for the city and increase the health and vitality of the neighborhood. Profit in the hands of the city is greeted differently than profit in the hands of the developers.

  136. Plain Jane
    January 10, 2011 at 11:04 am

    “Profit in the hands of the city is greeted differently than profit in the hands of the developers.”

    This is true. The chamber owned city council prefers profit of private business over healthy city finances. All their gnashing of teeth over the city buying it with tax dollars is proven hypocritical since they claim to favor CR buying it with tax dollars even though CR can’t keep their existing classroom doors open to serve the community.

  137. just the facts
    January 10, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    And to make matters worse: this December, CR’s accrediting agency (the Association of California Community and Junior Colleges) told CR on no uncertain terms that they must create a “fiscal stability plan,” and also to “plan for austerity.” If Marsee and the trustees embark on this Jefferson School misadventure yet again, I am convinced that this (and many other) critical accreditation directives will get shoved aside in the politically volatile fray of CR politics–leaving CR not only broke, but possibly with its accreditation in jeopardy as well. CR employs and educates a heck of lot of local people, who have a heck of a lot of local purchasing power. Why would the Chamber and City Council want to gamble with the quality (and even existence) of their local community college? Do not listen to Marsee’s Snake Oil!

  138. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 11:32 pm

    Journal cover article pretty much nailed it

  139. Anonymous
    January 14, 2011 at 12:06 pm

    I think others have made this point several times and better than I can, but;

    The Jefferson site would NOT be a new additional campus for C/R. It would be REPLACING the existing Eureka site on seventh or eight street. The purchase and many repairs of Jefferson would be coming out of their capital account, not the general fund.

    The general fund would no longer have to pay rent on the current site and, in the long run, save C/R a fortune.

    C/R buying and moving to Jefferson is actually a fiscally sound move. The city buying Jefferson and letting it sit empty for years & deteriorate is wasteful. Buying a property with no real need, no real plan, no funding source, and no tenants is fiscally reckless.

    No private business using their own funds would ever even contemplate such a foolish move. Only the city government using taxpayer funds don’t care how much money they waste. The tiny handful of people advocating for the city’s purchase would never use their own monies for something this stupid.

  140. Quick Question
    January 14, 2011 at 12:56 pm

    Anonymous, if you repeat enough times that there is “no real need, no real plan, no funding source, and no tenants” will that make it true despite evidence to the contrary?

  141. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    The Council that Kicked the Hornets Nest
    link

  142. Anonymous
    January 14, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    What “evidence” Quick Question? Have you fallen for their propaganda? I can refute your evidence, point by point by point. So can any developer, contractor or experienced businessman in any related field.

  143. Quick Question
    January 14, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Anonymous, I appreciate and share your concern for fiscal responsibility, so I wonder if you think it will pencil out for “any developer, contractor or experienced businessman in any related field” if both the city and CR pass and the sale is opened to non-public entity bidders? Do you think it might pencil out at a higher price than $600k? If so, do you think taxpayers would prefer the city or ECS to make the resulting profit from such a sale were it to occur? If the current plan were to fail, wouldn’t the city rather than ECS stand to gain financially by selling it on the open market? Is this not a viable and potentially lucrative Plan B for the city? Or ECS for that matter?

  144. sfb
    January 14, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    No. It’s not a viable alternative b/c the city manager and council would be castrated for “selling out” to the highest bidder. The city is basically a not-for-profit and has not business “investing” tax dollars in speculative real estate (remember Orange County banckruptcy 10 years ago?).

    You can’t have your cake and eat it too. It’s not in the city’s best interest, especially NOW with redev. money’s on the edge, to buy this property for thier pie in the sky utopian concept. If the “plan” they have is viable, why not buy it outright themselves? Too expensive?

    I have a great idea for a business. If only the taxpayers would fund my startup.

    There is a clear distaste brewing in Humboldt for grants, taxes and the entitlement mentality. Hold on tight, it’s gonna be a rough ride for those on the teet.

  145. Quick Question
    January 15, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    sfb, are neighborhood elementary schools and profit-producing, entrepreneur-serving commercial kitchens “pie in the sky utopian concepts” that we taxpayers should avoid despite projected positive revenue streams? Do you understand that the sale of the property is not open to non-public entities, so that it is not possible for the neighborhood group to just purchase it outright? If no public entity purchases it, do you not think the land value alone (2.2 acres) would pencil out on the open market for more than $600k? Do you understand that redevelopment funds are basically set up to allow cities to fund speculative blight-reducing projects that will have knock-off revenue-enhancing effects? Do you see a difference between straight-up real-estate speculation (Halvorsen site?) and having the option of selling it on the open market if the current plan does not work out for some reason? Are there any assurances, studies, etc. beyond what has been presented that would satisfy fiscal conservatives (of which I am one) or are you against all city-backed redevelopment projects? Do you have something against the city making a profit on this project, as is projected, as opposed to other redevelopment projects (e.g. the boardwalk) that will never in and of themselves produce a dime of direct revenue?

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