Home > Tea Party > Terrible timing for Humboldt Tea Partiers

Terrible timing for Humboldt Tea Partiers

Screen shot of the local Tea Party’s meeting schedule.

  1. Hank Sims
    January 11, 2011 at 3:05 pm

    Hoo boy.

  2. Humboldt Politico
    January 11, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Love to hear the excuses.

  3. Anonymous
    January 11, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    For extra irony: the murdered judge defended Sheriff Mack.

  4. skippy
    January 11, 2011 at 4:03 pm

    Humboldtly unbelievable.

  5. Joel Mielke
    January 11, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    You have to sort through the astroturf to find the local teabagger site.

  6. FoxStudio
    January 11, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    And three cheers for the sheriff of Pima County, Arizona, Clarence Dupnik, who would be a much better guest. Oh wait, he hates all the vitriolic speech that has dominated public discourse for, lo, these past ten years or so. Never mind.

  7. Decline to State
    January 11, 2011 at 5:59 pm

    Will there be question and answer? Love it.

  8. January 11, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    They are surprised to find themselves aligned with an emotionally unbalanced assassin; how much more so when they find out that they are financed by billionaires using them to steal our treasury funds and continue the corruption of our government.
    “Jews for Hitler” equals “working-class who support billionaires.” at the expense of the rest of us of course.

  9. Anonymous
    January 11, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    chewing on the bitter cud of bile

  10. Fool On Hill
    January 11, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    The irony is these whackos are now suggesting that if more people packed heat perhaps someone would have plugged the shooter before he shot as many as he did.

  11. tra
    January 11, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    “The irony is these whackos are now suggesting that if more people packed heat perhaps someone would have plugged the shooter before he shot as many as he did.”

    They would’ve had to be pretty quick on the draw: Apparently he drew his gun and emptied the clip in something like 15-20 seconds.

    I read somewhere yesterday that one of the guys who tackled the shooter actually did have a pistol or his own, but by the time it was clear what was happening and who was doing the shooting, the shooter had run out of ammo and was trying to reload.

    First a woman (who had already been shot) managed to grab and wrestle away the second clip the shooter tried to reload with, and then the two guys tackled him and subdued him before he could try again with a third clip.

    So, the way it actually played out was that tackling the guy was a faster and more certain way to stop the slaughter. Which is just as well, because if a bunch of people in the crowd had drawn their own guns and started firing, it’s qute possible that even more people might have been injured or killed from all the “friendly fire.”

    And then there’s the fact that an armed onlooker who didn’t see who shot first might not know which of the multiple gunmen was the actual threat, potentially leading to someone accidentally shooting one those who are trying to stop the original gunman.

    A panicking crowd is dangerous enough, but a panicking crowd with a whole bunch of armed people is exponentially more dangerous. It could have been an even worse disaster if four or five well-meaning but untrained or poorly trained people pulled their guns and opened fire.

  12. January 11, 2011 at 8:22 pm

    The real irony is that Congresswoman Giffords was pro gun and only a few days before her vile attack she read the first amendment in congress.

    How about Sheriff Dupnik’s press conference where his professional capacity was to impartially state the facts, but he instead ignited a firestorm of blame to the Right-wing – inserting conjecture and ideology. The Sheriff has become a pundint, but allowed Loughner to slip through the cracks as numerous complaints and arrests were not even noticed.

    But the real stinger is that by giving his speach, he gave Loughner a way out…Loughner can use that speech as a defense.

    To be perfectly clear, the post was good, but the these comments are shameful. Check out the gun sales in Arizona since the shooting.

  13. Plain Jane
    January 11, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Robin thinks “the media made me do it” is a defense? LMAO!

  14. Ponder z
    January 11, 2011 at 8:47 pm

    Umm for all you anti Tea Party folk; The shooter is educated by a Bill Ayers organized school that Obama help raise funds for. It teaches a left wing agenda. Left of the communist party anyway. The shooter was a Marijuana user and practiced ritualistic sacrifice in his back yard.

    So shut the fuck up all you winning blammers. He was one of your OWN!

  15. January 11, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    Plain Jane, you are wise in the ways of the force.
    I am speaking more of your posts in general but even this last one was pithy and on spot as well.
    I’d love to talk to you in person. You know where to find me.

  16. Eurekan
    January 11, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    The Tea Party ad couldn’t be more ill-timed or embarrassing had it been composed by a professional satirist.

    My God.

  17. January 11, 2011 at 9:11 pm

    Ponder z, that’s the education one gets when the college says you’re too mentally unstable to be educated by them. Are you making the argument that government funded mental care is better than a private education? That seems to be what you just said.
    After all, if it was so bad they wouldn’t be able to compete, right? How does that fit with your free market philosophy?

  18. Plain Jane
    January 11, 2011 at 9:36 pm

    Ponder Z already knows he is repeating discredited claims. Obama and Ayers were board members of The Chicago Annenberg Foundation, funded by the conservative Walter Annenberg, close personal friend of Ronald Reagan and former ambassador to Britain. Using Ponder Z illogic, the killer was educated by conservatives, etc. I have said it before and I’ll say it again, it doesn’t really matter which point on the political spectrum he falls, the insane rhetoric coming from the right affects everyone. This guy, like most people, had views which aren’t 100% anything. He was anti-government, anti-abortion, anti-war, 9/11 truther, anti-fed, who read a wide variety of political thought, or at least claimed to. I was heartened to hear that Roger Ailes has told his station to tone it down. Toning down the volume is more important than an insincere apology.

  19. Plain Jane
    January 11, 2011 at 9:38 pm

    Thanks, Tom.

  20. January 11, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    When I first heard the sheriff was coming to Fortuna, I looked him up and saw that he was an advocate for sustainable agriculture and organic foods. He recently drank a glass of raw milk in Wisconsin to support two farmers under attack for selling raw milk. He doesn’t drink milk and neither do I. I felt like I could relate to him. He has been on Thom Hartmann’s radio show and Thom said he was an interesting guy.

    The liberty gun and constitution side of him didn’t seem so bad knowing that he was against the international bankers and NAFTA, CAFTA and the WTO. All of which are destroying the American middle class.

    The timing of this event and the fact that the press release I got that was all about states rights and the second amendment made me sad. There are areas where I connect with people like this. I know several tea partiers that are all about organic agriculture and want to get rid of the big Agra business. The want to be healthy and productive members of society. We bump heads when we try to define a model that would allow for that without government regulation. If you talk to them they speak of free trade but given examples would support tariffs. I thought that this event might be a mix of the issues and be a good event for people that want to be more independent and sustainable.

    From the press release it seems the focus is more on civil liberties than social enrichment through better living. Too bad that’s where the focus is going. Maybe people could show up and ask the sheriff about these other things and change the dynamic? Maybe I’m just a dreamer hoping that people can find common ground and agree to get along so that we all can live better.

  21. Henry D
    January 11, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Plain Jane, don’t try an tell us what Robin thinks (“Robin thinks “the media made me do it” is a defense? LMAO!” @8:31) when his/her comments are written for all of us to see. Robin didn’t blame the media or anyone else for this wing-nut’s actions.

    You, however, DO lay blame:

    “Plain Jane says:
    January 9, 2011 at 2:37 pm
    The evidence that the right is using violent rhetoric has been all over the news for several years now. It doesn’t take a leap of logic to go from “targeting” using violent imagery and hysterical rhetoric of political opponents to their fanatics trying to “save” the country by killing these people they are told are dangerous extremists with an agenda to destroy the US. Don’t pretend such tactics haven’t been used many times in human history. Since it is only the right who has been using such violent rhetoric and imagery which is specifically chosen to appeal to the gun nut…”

    Run out of your meds, PJ?

  22. Anonymous
    January 11, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    I got the impression the shooter had a list of suggested readings from one of his college classes. I doubt he had the capacity to read all the way through either the Communist Manifesto or Mein Kampf.

  23. Anonymous
    January 11, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    We have already moved to find common ground. For example, we on the left refer to Tea Party members as Tea Party members now. Not Tea-Baggers.

  24. Anonymous
    January 11, 2011 at 9:48 pm

    The shooter is educated by a Bill Ayers organized school that Obama help raise funds for. It teaches a left wing agenda. Left of the communist party anyway. The shooter was a Marijuana user and practiced ritualistic sacrifice in his back yard.

    Wow, you managed to get one fact correct. The shooter did have a back yard.

  25. Kelli
    January 11, 2011 at 9:56 pm

    Way to go 9:47. That’s real big of you. Now you and Tom the Dreamer can hold hands in your cute little utopia. Leave the hard thinking to those better equipped.

  26. Henry D
    January 11, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    I fully expect PJs typical classy and eloquent GFYs.

  27. Plain Jane
    January 11, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    You apparently missed Robin’s point and the point of my response, Henry. She said that by the sheriff blaming the media he (the sheriff) had helped the defense, “the media made him do it” not that she believed the media made him do it.

    I take all the meds I need. Thanks for your concern.

  28. Plain Jane
    January 11, 2011 at 10:03 pm

    So sorry to disappoint you, Henry. If I had seen your last post before I posted, I wouldn’t have wasted my time. Now GFY.

  29. Henry D
    January 11, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    Jane, better me than you.

  30. January 11, 2011 at 10:31 pm

    It’s ridiculous to talk about a mentally ill person’s politics. Personally I despise the rhetoric of the right. Not so much for its potential incitement of violence; but more for its glaring hypocrisy.
    I believe in the right to bear arms in defense of sovereign citizens. But they should be at the person’s home. Not in their car and definitely not on their person.
    I can’t blame the Tea-Party for this person’s actions. He is insane. But it is also true that our country, as envisioned by the criminally wealthy, is also criminally insane. We/They are murdering children every hour of every day with drone attacks and missiles. Killing whole neighborhoods because one bad guy is in the vicinity. Kinda like the killer in Tuscon. Killing all those innocents (in him mind maybe?) just to get the guilty (in his mind.)
    This all brings so many tears. If only our media wasn’t so corrupt and useless, these images of dead little girls and boys from Afghanistan to Arizona could be shown on the media and blasted across the screen during the superbowl. Then people might care enough to make the wars stop. and start enforcing the law we already have to punish the real traitors and criminals against humanity.

  31. Plain Jane
    January 11, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    Henry has been dying to use that line.

  32. Voter
    January 11, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    are we allowed to call and tell them how sick we are of their violent rhetoric? it’s truly sickening.

  33. January 11, 2011 at 11:09 pm

    This is what Robin thinks:

    Rhetorical recklessness seems to be the leftist label of using war or hunting analogies; soil survey symbols/crosshairs, demonstrating a right to bear arms, fighting for your rights (notice “fighting” used innocuously).

    These terms have been used in business and politics since war began. Both parties have used them. I don’t know anybody that took the terms/analogies/symbols to mean get out your guns and kill people.

    There isn’t a shred of evidence that it does.

    Otherwise most music, movies and videos would be on a “hit list” to be banned. Anybody believe in book burning? Not likely, because that’s absurd. And so is the left’s attempt to call the political “Right” mass murderers (speaking of lunacy). This is worse than hyperbole; this is more inciting than the political metaphors. Accusing someone of having blood on their hands and the results of which, will lead to losing rights (1st and 2nd amendment) is nothing short of a lynching mentality.

    A revolution doesn’t automatically mean violence. Many conservatives, Tea Partiers and talk show hosts from the right have denounced violence time and again. Tea Partiers have proven their non-violence presence through countless massive demonstrations over a two year span – the Tea Party is middle America, regular (previously non-political) folk…somebody needs some perspective!

    Do Leftists remember any of these; http://michellemalkin.com/2011/01/10/the-progressive-climate-of-hate-an-illustrated-primer-2000-2010/

  34. Nothing better to do
    January 11, 2011 at 11:30 pm

    I wonder what the overlap is between the Humboldt Taxpayers League, and the Tea Party. They seem to be “birds of a feather” from what I know. I am just curious.

  35. tra
    January 12, 2011 at 1:30 am

    “…so is the left’s attempt to call the political “Right” mass murderers (speaking of lunacy). … Accusing someone of having blood on their hands and the results of which…is nothing short of a lynching mentality.

    Show me where any prominent figure on the political left is calling the political right mass murderers. What, you can’t? Big surprise.

    Meanwhile, a very prominent figure on the political right, Rush Limbaugh, has declared that:

    Jared Loughner — the suspect in the mass shooting in Arizona — is smiling in his mugshot because he knows he has the full support of the Democratic Party behind him.

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/live/giffords-shooting-wire/index.php#364948

    So, Limbaugh has sent the message, loud and clear, to his millions of right-wing listeners, that the entire Democratic Party is “supporting” a mass murderer.

    Now do you suppose that sort of incendiary rhetoric — accusing the whole Democratic Party of “fully supporting” a mass murderer might, just might, contribute further to the kind of “lynching mentality” that many believe may have influenced the Tuscon mass murderer in the first place?

    I think the right wing would be well advised to remove the planks from their own eyes before they worry about the splinters in the eyes of their opponents.

  36. DavidIsley
    January 12, 2011 at 1:47 am

    “moviedad says:@ 10:31 pm
    It’s ridiculous to talk about a mentally ill person’s politics. Personally I despise the rhetoric of the right. Not so much for its potential incitement of violence; but more for its glaring hypocrisy.
    I believe in the right to bear arms in defense of sovereign citizens. But they should be at the person’s home. Not in their car and definitely not on their person.
    I can’t blame the Tea-Party for this person’s actions. He is insane. But it is also true that our country, as envisioned by the criminally wealthy, is also criminally insane. We/They are murdering children every hour of every day with drone attacks and missiles. Killing whole neighborhoods because one bad guy is in the vicinity. Kinda like the killer in Tuscon. Killing all those innocents (in him mind maybe?) just to get the guilty (in his mind.)
    This all brings so many tears. If only our media wasn’t so corrupt and useless, these images of dead little girls and boys from Afghanistan to Arizona could be shown on the media and blasted across the screen during the superbowl. Then people might care enough to make the wars stop. and start enforcing the law we already have to punish the real traitors and criminals against humanity.”

    Once again, Moviedad nails it on the head, begining to end.
    THANK YOU.

  37. Walt
    January 12, 2011 at 6:48 am

    I keep remembering 1968, when Bobby Kennedy and Martin Luther King were assassinated, the craziness of Chicago and SERIOUS anger on the right AND left and riots in many cities that had people cowering behind locked doors. I and many others thought “OK, the genie is out of the bottle. . .now what happens?” We didn’t have Fox News and Limbaugh, but the left was spitting on and harassing returning soldiers and college campuses were hotbeds of often violent protest. Malcolm X had been killed three years earlier, the head of the American Nazi Party was killed the year before. The anger is more orchestrated today, and more people are making money pandering to it, but we might do well to remember nuts with guns are nothing new.

  38. Ponder z
    January 12, 2011 at 7:08 am

    Tom and Plain, it is fact the shooter is a student of communist thought. He went to a (PUBLIC Experiment) high school. How can you deny these facts?

    Small Schools Workshop:
    Jared attended Mountain View High School, which is part of Arizona’s Morana Unified School District.

    Since 2003, Mountain View has been part of what is known as the Smaller Learning Community, a network of schools that have been restructured to create a more personalized learning environment where students often have the same teachers and fellow students from grade to grade.

    The communist ideas and philosophies must have been taught to Jared while at this school and we have nobody other than people like Obama and Ayers to point the finger at if we are going to be doing any finger pointing.

  39. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 7:19 am

    Ponder Z lacks the ability to think. His claim that Loughner went to a “communist” school is unsupported; but, like his heroes in the right wing punditry, spewing his deliberate misinformation is all that matters to him.

    First he claimed that it was a “communist school” because it was funded by Ayers and Obama but when that was proven false (it was funded by staunch conservative Walter Annenberg), he continues to claim it was a “communist school” because it focused on personalized learning. His foundation crumbled, but his false edifice is still standing – in his delusional mind.

  40. 06em
    January 12, 2011 at 7:20 am

    Keep pondering, z.

  41. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 12, 2011 at 7:58 am

    Fool On Hill says:
    January 11, 2011 at 7:01 pm
    The irony is these whackos are now suggesting that if more people packed heat perhaps someone would have plugged the shooter before he shot as many as he did.

    Response: Yep, and human beings, at the will of many parents, even killed their newborn diseased and malformed children as a social practice acceptible. It was a culling effect.

    So yes, humans find ways to naturally select those who will survive by death – like how the shooter naturally selected how to randomly shoot everywhere.

    Humans have such fine achievements to look past upon for poor examples of the human species.

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  42. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 12, 2011 at 7:58 am

    Fool On Hill says:
    January 11, 2011 at 7:01 pm
    The irony is these whackos are now suggesting that if more people packed heat perhaps someone would have plugged the shooter before he shot as many as he did.

    Response: Yep, and human beings, at the will of many parents, even killed their newborn diseased and malformed children as a social practice acceptible. It was a culling effect.

    So yes, humans find ways to naturally select those who will survive by death – like how the shooter naturally selected how to randomly shoot everywhere.

    Humans have such fine achievements to look past upon for poor examples of the human species.

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  43. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 12, 2011 at 8:00 am

    Heraldo,

    did your blog site do something new with the avatars? They show print now too, amazing.

    JL

  44. Carol
    January 12, 2011 at 8:44 am

    We didn’t have The Internet back in 1968.

  45. January 12, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Tra, The internet and the media were ablaze within hours after the massacre blaming the violent rhetoric of the Right…pretty much the same thing that Sheriff Dupnik stated. Even when none of the facts were in (facts did not matter). You’d have to be a complete imbecile to want a list, it would take me days to compile one.

    In some cases there are back-peddling but most are not. Posts like “Blood on your hands”, “Right, you own this one”, etc. Clyburn is one example, Dupnik is another.

    Limbaugh just re-iterated what I said in my first post. Gee thanks for letting me know that Rush backed me up. Click on the Malkin link I provided if you want some info about Left violence and hypocrisy. Check your condescension.

  46. Mitch
    January 12, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Walt at 6:48,

    Unless you personally saw a leftist spitting on a soldier returning from Vietnam, you are just repeating a myth that was created by Limbaugh and Beck’s parents. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spitting_Image

  47. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 8:56 am

    The 75 year old Democrat Sheriff Dupnik, who has been in office for 30 long years, pulled a brillant political maneuver. He and his department are guilty of incompetance by letting that freakazoid out free on the streets despite being called numerous times and being warned by a number of individuals.

    So, when his incompetance cost six lives, he comes out swinging blaming Sarah Palin, Glen Beck and Rush Limbaugh.

    And the left wingers, who are prejudiced against those people anyway, fell for it hook-line-and-sinker. Dupnik should be impeached & thrown out of every office for the rest of his life. Instead, he is toasted in the Main Stream Media and on this looney tune blog.

  48. January 12, 2011 at 8:58 am

    It’s almost funny to watch Propaganda’s two sides (only the truly propagandized believe there are two sides) toss this guy back and forth like a hot potato.
    Jane, in Robin’s defense (though she and I probably don’t agree on much) I think she was relating to an outlandish defense strategy like the “Twinkie defense” It is very possible his lawyers might combine his mental illness with the constant violent rhetoric to at least save their client from the death penalty.
    While we are throwing blame at the “right” let’s also blame them for working to eliminate our health care so that people like this guy will never get diagnosed, and they will be free to live out their fantasies on the rest of us, and kill whoever their twisted mind decides deserves to die. Kinda like the Whitehouse.

  49. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 9:05 am

    It’s obvious that trying to have any sort of intelligent, honest discussion with people like Robin and PonderZ is futile. They just parrot the hateful rhetoric they hear from rightwing hate radio and TV without the ability to filter it for facts. Pretending that hateful rhetoric doesn’t create a climate for violence is delusional. Pretending that a national media star like Beck actually laying out the game plan for militias to start a civil war is unrelated to the massive increase in right wing militias and the fear of them is delusional. Pretending that hateful propaganda and violent rhetoric has no effect is delusional. It affects everyone across political spectrum from the anger it fuels in the not too bright, insane and history illiterate right who get their views (it isn’t news) from Fox to the fear it fuels in the groups they target with their hate. Defending the violent imagery and rhetoric is unconscionable as is lying about the motivations of those who condemn it.

  50. The real Pithy and "On the spot"
    January 12, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Robin, “rhetorical recklessness” is Plain Jane’s middle name. GFY is her pinnacle of eloquence.

    The lunatic should not have been allowed to walk the streets free much less buy a gun.

    Here is the latest example where a gun saved a life. A jogger was assaulted by a teenager but the jogger had a concealed weapon permit & the gun on him. Result, the jogger is alive & his assailant is dead.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/fla-jogger-wont-charged-shooting-teen/

  51. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Didn’t I make it clear that I understood what Robin was doing, Moviedad? I would add that it’s a bit hypocritical to blame the media and the sheriff for the possibility of an insane person not being executed at the same time she claims the media has no responsibility for the climate of violence they encourage. I’m hoping the victims and / or their families sue the worst of the demagogues and their employers for damages since money is the only thing they care about.

  52. TurnItDown
    January 12, 2011 at 9:18 am

    The shooter was insane – OK.
    He may have been a right-winger, a vegan, a communist, read Newsweek, listened to Rush, watched Democracy Now, cursed NPR, and gone to church on Sunday but none of these are the reason for his insanity.
    However, the shooting of a Congresswoman, a judge, and a little girl at a political event puts a human face on the politics that our media and pundit demonize on a daily basis.
    The national rhetoric has been ratcheted up to such a degree that flesh and blood people with opposing views are dehumanized. We then feel OK with violent metaphors and violent rhetorical statements. There are plenty of historical examples where dehumanization allowed violence to be accepted or a least ignored (e.g., “War on Terror”, Rwanda, Nazi Germany).
    Maybe the lessen here that we should limit our comments to what we would be willing to say face to face to our opponents. And if your willing to tackle a crazed gunman who is shooting your opponents, then maybe you should also give them the respect of civil speech (even if it is anonymous).

  53. Joel Mielke
    January 12, 2011 at 9:21 am

    “We then feel OK with violent metaphors and violent rhetorical statements.”

    Speak for yourself, Turnitdown.

  54. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 9:22 am

    The latest Palin tactic is to call criticism of her violent rhetoric “blood libel,” without (apparently) understanding its anti-semitic history. Using the charge of “blood libel” to defend yourself against charges that you are partially culpable in the attempted assassination of a Jewish politician is reprehensible. If she had half a brain one would suspect she is speaking in code to remind her base that Giffords is a Jew, but in her case it is likely just idiocy.

  55. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 12, 2011 at 9:23 am

    Moviedad,

    How will the shooter pay for his doctor? Does he have a job? Ok, then who with a job will pay for a shooter without a job? Ok, what about the parents? Do they pay 100% of the cost to stabalize a crackpot gone wild? So many thoughts of who, what, where, when, why and how that simply having a health care system in place or not would not rectify the problem. There is sooooooo much money right now (tax dollars) that are shelled around for other contrived ideas and wastes of allocations to such a degree that the waste can never be “expunged”.

    So, the dollars have been there to pay for the need to keep mentally unstable people from hurting themself and others. Do they has human beings owe a debt to others that they impact? I say ABSOLUTELY. Now, the question becpomes how to do it. Do we, as a society, liquidate all the assets of a person in order to care for them by force prior to a “flipping of the swich and a loose cannon going boom”? I believe certain societal impacts trend from the parents on down – even after the ripe young age of 18.

    I believe the system as it is for checks and balances to protect the citizens from domestic violence is flawed in favor of government only. Since the point blank head plot to kill Reagan, what has really changed domestically? Not much cuz we don’t need it. There are whackos from time to time that have an impact – we move forward. Yet, who is trying to gain politically from a known historical and repeated tpe of event; AND, who is trying to strip people of their character by stripping people of their rights, privileges, liberties and freedoms?

    You guessed it, GOVERNMENT. Now, we disagree on parts of the who, which is ok, since I am sure we can still shake hands and respect each others viewpoints – now. Later though, if I become menatlly unstable, then what happens? My point is that at any time on this godless foresaken planet, any one human being can flip at any given time, details unlimited.

    Now, do we pay into a health insurance plan for things that have not happened yet, but may likely occur that affects society versus that which affects only the individual – and, when the impact actually occurs by that individual, AND not on hypothetical calculations by observations of less than 100% of every human being ever to live for a real chronological listing using time and space data to crunch numbers to show just exactly how society itself (by mass over-population) has had a major affect in changing the human psychee into one of a different style of violence or mental instabilites. SO, the individual should not pay, it should be those who endorse mass society, yes? Darn, back to over-population again.

    JL

  56. Thank You
    January 12, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Yes, Turnitdown. This Leave No Disagreement Behind policy going on here is creating a bickering little swamp of disrespect and belittling.

  57. TurnItDown
    January 12, 2011 at 9:32 am

    OK Joel – good to know it is not “all” who are OK with violent speech. My exaggeration is duly corrected.
    For clarification, I consider GFY a form of violent speech (using sex as a form of retaliation); which is unfortunately coming from a left-leaning blogger.

  58. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 9:37 am

    LMAO, TurnItDown!

  59. Mitch
    January 12, 2011 at 9:48 am

    (Offered in Beavis and Butthead style.)

    Heh, heh. Jane said A.

  60. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 10:01 am

    If TurnItDown finds masturbation to be violent, he should weaken his grip.

  61. Goldie
    January 12, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Jane, what are you trying to do?

  62. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 10:53 am

    In regards to what, Goldie? In general I’m trying to have a good life and work towards economic and social justice. What are you trying to do?

  63. Goldie
    January 12, 2011 at 10:55 am

    I am wondering how the tone of your comments will assist you in creating a just world.

  64. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 11:08 am

    What tone is that, Goldie? I have never wished or threatened violence of any kind. My harsh criticism of the right, without a shred of violence, is deserved, IMO. I’m not one of those who believes all opinions are equal. Opinions based on evidence trump those based on fallacies, delusion and wishful thinking. Spew ignorance all you like, but don’t expect respect for it from me.

  65. Goldie
    January 12, 2011 at 11:09 am

    Harsh might be what I was referring to.

  66. pete
    January 12, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Free speech. The times Standard has crossed the line on freedom of speech and opinion. From now on I will read their paper after someone else has used it. I will not buy a new one. Todays TS editorial shows how to keep people out of the loop. Thank you Heraldo for keeping the lines of communication up and running.

  67. Ponder z
    January 12, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Plain, the shooter went to a public high school.
    Yes_X_
    No___

    The school is an experimental education project funded by the Left.
    Yes_x__
    No ___

    Communist studies are in the curriculum of this school.
    Yes__x__
    No ____

    So Plain, how and you say disproved?
    And, Annenberg was not a consevitive.

  68. tra
    January 12, 2011 at 11:45 am

    I find a a great deal (sometimes the majority) of blog comments to be unecessarily harsh and/or rude, and I’m sure I’ve made some comments that others found to too harsh or rude for their taste. So there are a whole lot of us who could use some work on our “tone,” and yes, some more than others.

    But the fact that people posting comments to blogs usually make quick, off-hand comments, often anonymously, and that a lot of those comments come off as harsh and/or rude, well that just isn’t all that surprising, or consequential.

    On the other hand it seems to me to be a whole lot more consequential when a person with an audience of millions, like Rush Limbaugh, says that Jared Loughner (the Tuscon shooting suspect) is grinning in his mug shot photo because he knows that he has the “full support” of the entire Democratic Party, or when Sharron Angle called for “Second Amendment remedies” in the event that the Tea Partiers failed to get what they wanted at the ballot box (as they did in the case of Gabrielle Griffin, the apparent target of Loughner’s assasination attempt).

  69. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Again Ponder Z makes claims he can’t support. On what does he base his claim that “it was funded by the left” (it wasn’t) and “communist studies are the cirriculum of this school?”

    Walter Annenberg was a lifelong conservative, registered and very active member of the GOP, close personal friend of Ronald Reagan, appointed as ambassador to UK by Richard Nixon. His wife was Chief of State Department Protocol, appointed by Reagan. I realize that by tea party standards no one to the left of the far right fringe is considered conservative, but their warped perception of conservatism doesn’t change a thing. What it does show is how radically extremist they really are.

    link

  70. Mitch
    January 12, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Jane,

    Ponder z and others like him — he has to be a him, doesn’t he? — will believe what they hear from their own echo chamber, regardless of what you say or do.

    There is, I think, literally nothing you could write here that would change their minds.

    It might be more worthwhile to address your comments to those with an open mind. In doing that, phrases like GFY are probably counterproductive, especially this week.

    I certainly understand the need to vent when attempting to engage with those who (at the least) seem to you to be fools and liars, but I’d consider whether it helps you in your path to your larger goals.

  71. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    That would be a great name for a new blog. Fools and Liars.

  72. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    I’d use the alternative, “go to hell” but I don’t believe in hell and to get there one would presumably have to die. I appreciate your advice and I was making a slight attempt to be nicer, but then a poster essentially begged for a GFY so he could use a silly line he heard somewhere and I obliged. As you undoubtedly know, the level of violent political rhetoric has been very troubling to me for years, not just since Saturday. Cretins who defend it or deny its harm (from any perspective) make me so angry that GFY is my sincerely felt response. Making a big deal about an angry slang phrase for “go masturbate” seems a little silly.

  73. misc,
    January 12, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    I worked in the land surveying field for 20 years. I never saw any symbol like on Palin’s map on any survey map! If you look through the scope of a transit it looks similar to Palin’s map imagery but with one big difference, the stadia lines [two smaller horizontal lines on the vertical line, one above center one below center that are the stadia interval ]. Yes there are many gun terminology’s in surveying, scope, target, taking the shot and so forth. But we didn’t reload anything! Trying to say that Palin’s map symbols are just surveyors symbols is very weak!!

  74. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    It’s truly hypocritical for a poster who is so abusive to include the “GFYS” in most of their posts along with routine helpings of calling other posters really nasty names to even dare comment on this topic. You know who you are-and you might benefit from some soul searching about the root of your vulgar, disrespectful and downright hateful postings.

  75. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Most of my posts, 12:31? Exaggerate much? If you can find a single post where I have wished any sort of violence on anyone, used violent rhetoric or threats, I will refrain from ever posting again. It’s funny that the same people who have no problem with blatant violent rhetoric from their media pundits which are broadcast around the world get so upset over not only the word “fuck,” but GFY. That says a lot more about you than it does about me.

    Does GFY fall into the same category as “I wish someone would assassinate the president?” Or regarding the OK Courthouse bombing “My only regret is that he didn’t blow up the NY Times building?” How many of you condemned Fred’s repeated calls for civil war over policy disputes? It’s obvious that at least some of the hypocrisy is due to the fact that I am a woman and we are supposed to refrain from saying “fuck” or being harsh when criticizing others. Get over it or GFY.

  76. Fairness in media
    January 12, 2011 at 1:05 pm

    It is illegal to threaten a public official. Death threats against anyone are illegal.

    When our publicly owned airwaves are used to disseminate death threats and encourage an audience of millions to carry out the threats, should this not be punishable by loss of the broadcasting license?

    Time to take back our airwaves from the mega rich who own the media and are using it to subvert participation in our government.

  77. Anononymous
    January 12, 2011 at 1:11 pm

    Right “Fairness”. We must end the quaint old notion of free speech and a free press.

    Plain Jane, you are posting too much. You have become very unpleasant to even read, much less interact with.

  78. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 1:45 pm

    I care as much about your opinions as you do about mine, 1:11. It’s funny that in the same post you sarcastically ridicule “Fairness,” implying that he wants to end free speech and a free press and then tell me to shut up because you don’t like what I am posting.

  79. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Remember what Dan Aykroyd said to Jane Curtin on SNL?

  80. suzy blah blah
    January 12, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    I like your style Jane. It’s a breath of fresh air. And even though we often disagree, I am almost always interested in hearing what you have to say, and I especially like the colorful ways in which you choose to say it. You are good. I think you’re one of the best, most insightful, most coherent, to the point, clearly spoken, (no fucking around), blog-commenters around here. I know I don’t have to tell you to keep on keepin on.

  81. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Is referring to “Jane you ignorant slut,” which impunes
    both her morality and her intelligence, more polite than telling
    someone to go masturbate, which isn’t an insult at all? Or is it
    sexual slang words (or sex itself) which are so offensive to
    you?

  82. Plain Jane
    January 12, 2011 at 2:19 pm

    Guess I’ve gone over the boundaries for Heraldo. I’m in moderation.

  83. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 2:54 pm

    Nothing moderate about you so be pleased.

  84. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 12, 2011 at 3:27 pm

    One thing is for sure with curse words and acronyms is

    those like Plain Jane who fear the exposure of their personal identity tend to keep secret while trying to be a self-proclaimed mug wump.

    Agenda this, agenda that. Oh, curse words are effective; and, no one can see who the person is in the community lashing out like the Tuscon shooter.

    JL

  85. Goldie
    January 12, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Having a poke at Jane, Mr. Henchman? She is a valued member of our community. She is unusually upset these days and probable with good reason. She faces what we all face which is how to channel our sane anger into creating the results that we want.
    Frustrations are high and there is much encouragement to be uncivil. But do we want the results our lack of civility bring?

  86. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 12, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Goldie,

    I can’t be poking if it is the truth. Why does any person hide away under a rock like a scorpion to misrepresent people. Answer: no revelation of identity. It is easier for people who act like children to play hide and seek and enjoy it while grown adults are open and transparent – it is not about the message as it is the deliverance. If that is a poke, then the joke is on me, oh boy.

    JL

  87. Anon2
    January 12, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    I second the motion that Plain Jane take a nice vacation, for her own sake.

    A day away would recharge your batteries & come in with a new perspective.

  88. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    I feel sorry for all of you posting here. You are raving nuts.

  89. Eric Kirk
    January 12, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Check out the gun sales in Arizona since the shooting.

    Which I think is pretty sick myself.

  90. Eric Kirk
    January 12, 2011 at 4:50 pm

    Sheriff Dupnik got a standing ovation for his appearance at the Gifford event today.

    http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/live/giffords_wire/giffords_shooting_wire.html#178

  91. Eric Kirk
    January 12, 2011 at 4:52 pm
  92. skippy
    January 12, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    I enjoy your comments, Jane. Articulate, informed, accurate, researched, straight forward, and adding to the discussion. BTW, it looks like I’m ‘in moderation’, too, on the previous Sarah Palin thread! Sigh. Welcome to the club. Maybe that post will show up later? A provocatively different and controversially positive… doozy. Stay tuned!

    Go easier on the GFYs? You know I can’t agree with you and am reminded that ‘folks won’t always remember what you say to them… but will always remember how you made them feel.’

    I know, Jane, …GFM? OK, just teasin’! Carry on, my dear. You do rock. :)

  93. Eric Kirk
    January 12, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Here is the latest example where a gun saved a life. A jogger was assaulted by a teenager but the jogger had a concealed weapon permit & the gun on him. Result, the jogger is alive & his assailant is dead.

    http://www.foxnews.com/us/2011/01/12/fla-jogger-wont-charged-shooting-teen/

    I’m a little concerned about the report which is scant on facts. It says the kid was shot 8 times, with bullets in his back and buttocks. That probably means the kid was trying to get away and the jogger kept shooting. There could be mitigating explanations, but that bothers me.

  94. Fairness in media
    January 12, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    The First Amendment does not protect all speech. See two relevant exceptions below. An individual can not engage in fighting words or incitement. If you and I are restricted from inciting violence, media outlets should also be restricted.

    You and I might reach a few people with harmful speech. The Fox network, Limbaugh, and Palin reach millions. The probability that one of the listeners will be mentally unbalance is much higher in a pool of millions of people. That’s why their incitement to violence must be prohibited.

    Exceptions to Freedom of Expression

    Many exceptions to the First Amendment protections have been recognized by the courts, although not without controversy. Courts sometimes justify these exceptions as speech which causes substantial harm to the public, or speech which the Founding Fathers could not have intended to protect, or traditions that have long been part of the common law tradition from England that was the basis of our American legal system.

    Exceptions established by the courts to the First Amendment protections include the following:

    Fighting words — In its leading case on the subject, Chaplinsky v. New Hampshire, the U.S. Supreme Court defined fighting words as those words “which by their very utterance inflict injury or tend to incite an immediate breach of the peace.” The court later used the terms “epithets” and “personal abuse” in discussing fighting words.

    Incitement — The act of one person causing another to consider committing a crime, regardless of whether in fact the crime was committed. Incitement is the attempt to draw in another person as a conspirator or an accomplice. In Brandenburg v. Ohio (1969), the Supreme Court held that, to be a crime, incitement must go beyond mere advocacy of illegal actions to tending to cause “imminent lawless action.”

  95. skippy
    January 12, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Erik, I’m sorry, but what’s the implication here? Citizens are safer armed for midnight runs and shooting rather than… oh, running away? Better off being alive than dead? Better to stand up rather than standing down facing criminals? The jogger was street legal, bona fide, and all appropriate? Granted, I wouldn’t like being punched in the face, either. Hmmm. Unsure to the relevance of the larger picture here…and being shot 8 times does sound like overkill…

  96. Joel Mielke
    January 12, 2011 at 7:11 pm

    Glock sales are up. Explain that to us, gun nuts.

  97. Goldie
    January 12, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Fear. Fear went up 323 points this week.

  98. robash141
    January 12, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    Interesting how robin cites Michele Malkin as some sort of authority. i suppose she is in the sense that her reputation for rhetorical thuggishness is almost unmatched.
    Shortly after the Virginia Tech massacre (before the funerals mind you) Michele Malkin wrote a column published in the Eureka Reporter about how the students at Va. Tech were easily shot down because they were soft spoiled products of wussified liberal education. Her attitude towards the recently deceasced was beyond disrespectful ,it was actually quite contemptuous. Malkiin stopped just short of saying they had it coming.
    Around the same time , the cops released the psycho’s videotaped farewell to the world. In it, he rants into the camera about how all those soft spoiled wussified bourgeois brats at Va. Tech were about to get theirs.
    I’m not saying that Michele Malkin inspired this guy or that he had ever even heard of MM.
    However, it’s hard not to notice how her mindset at the time seemed much closer perilously close, to that of the deranged mass murderer than it did to any other member of the recognizable human community.
    Ideologies aside, Michelle Malkin part of the problem not the solution. If you’re pushing her memes ,then by extension you become part of the problem as well.

  99. Anon
    January 12, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Robin in her first post made good sense.

    The shooter probably does not hear what we all hear on any news and marches to a different drummer on what he may hear if he was mentally ill. Son of Sam heard voices = we don’t know since he is represented by a very important attorney how will be presented”. This is not about the Tpartiers but now turns to another “nut” – the Unibomber. Seems pretty weird to me to link those two together. I don’t think it has anything to do with that news but just a real nut that heard different things or supported different things than most of would have done.

    I saw some of the “crosshairs” but I certainly would not have shot anyone over that. It really takes a mentally ill person to do something like this and other shootings that have taken place in the US which were not very manty.

    The school shootings were a different thing – mental illness – bullying, etc. That does not compare with this one unless we find he thought he was still in school but I don’t think that will be found out. He was just a nut that could not separate reality from fictition.

    Is this guy a nut or not – that is the question.

  100. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    IMG_0002.JPG

    Just was in Arizona and this was a billboard across from our hotel. Hope the photo works. Was not quite sure how to do this.

  101. January 12, 2011 at 9:09 pm

    Unfortunately, WordPress doesn’t allow photos to be posted in the comments section.

  102. suzy blah blah
    January 12, 2011 at 9:30 pm

    See if this works.

  103. January 12, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    That works, thanks Suzy.

  104. Anonymous
    January 12, 2011 at 9:50 pm

    Thanks, Suzy. Not sure how that worked…and not exactly the same view but definitely the same message.

  105. January 12, 2011 at 11:35 pm

    Wow, so much has been said since my last visit – Plain Jane, I said it before Rush, so I guess I’m not a parrot…sorry! I guess we’ll all know for sure what the high powered defense attorney uses for her client, I’m sure she’s in tune. I don’t know where or why you picked up such a vile tone but you’re like a rabid dog leveling personal attacks on people holding opinions or facts you don’t like. Accusing someone of being culpable for multiple deaths is saying they are an accessory to murder – this is libelous.

    For those that had questions about crosshairs vs. survey symbols, I’ve got a couple of resources for you; http://crossbridge1.blogspot.com/2011/01/caught-in-crosshairs.html
    http://www.modelmayhem.com/po.php?thread_id=666754

    Robash – It sounds like Malkin gets information in a pre-release before the general public (got a link?). The link I provided was an account of the Left’s contribution to hate mongering…minimal commentary.

  106. Plain Jane
    January 13, 2011 at 5:41 am

    “but you’re like a rabid dog leveling personal attacks on people holding opinions or facts you don’t like”

    I guess we can’t expect someone who would use Malkin as a source to have any intellectual honesty. Is it possible for someone to be so clueless as to personally attack someone as a “rabid dog” while accusing them of using personal attacks? Is calling someone an idiot (for their clearly idiotic claims) equal to calling them a rabid dog?

    Violent rhetoric doesn’t only affect the mentally ill or those on the right. When liberals hear the crazy talk about 2nd amendment remedies, gaming how militias would conduct a civil war, politicians connecting automatic rifles to defeating their opponents, it doesn’t make them go out and shoot people; but it also doesn’t engender a cooperative spirit. When right wing political leaders and media stars are using violent verbiage, creating gross exaggerations and outright lies that in the past were heard only on the fringes, opposition to their agenda and anger over their tactics grows. Many on the left, myself included, have been anxious over this increasingly violent rhetoric and misinformation from the right for years now, fearing the real violence that would inevitably occur. Loughner’s motives (if you can call the reason a crazy person kills a motive) may be unclear, but there have been numerous instances where the motive (taking out the people Beck calls enemies) is crystal clear. Comparing what fringe nuts say to what the right wing leaders (political and media) say and declaring both sides equally to blame is false equivalence. THE POWER OF THE MEGAPHONE MATTERS. What some poster says on Kos or Huffington Post doesn’t carry the same weight as what Glenn Beck or Sarah Palin say because it doesn’t reach anywhere near as many people and isn’t given the credence as that which comes from a nationally known figure. When “patriots” believe their country is under attack, which is what the right hears 24/7 from their favored media and elected politicians, violence against those they perceive to be the attackers is inevitable. When a center right president like Obama is demonized as a socialist who is deliberately trying to destroy the country by leaders on the right, when I hear people like Coulter say of the OK bombing, “The only thing I regret is that it wasn’t the NY Times building,” and wishes for mobs with pitchforks to attack liberals, or when congressional members say they hunt Democrats but don’t like to waste ammunition, it doesn’t make me feel all warm and fuzzy, but then I don’t believe in violence (threats or actions) is a valid political tool. When one side is telling their members to come to political events armed, civil debate is impossible. When a nut carries a gun to a political event (would a sane person bring a gun to a political event?) and massacres a bunch of people, isn’t it natural to hold those doing the encouraging at least partially responsible?

    I admit to being overheated in this debate and reacting with anger and insults to people who repeatedly, after being given the facts, post the same lies. As I have stated before, this has long been a source of great anxiety for me. People who continue to defend and support these dangerous demagogues with false justification and denial of the harm they are doing to our nation are either disingenuous or fools. There are lots of crazies and “patriots” out there eager to spill blood. They don’t need a national leader lighting their fuse.

  107. robash141
    January 13, 2011 at 7:41 am

    Indeed Robin ,I noticed you are not from around here. Perhaps your “cause” such as it is , would be better served if you helped Michele Malkin or Beck incite a shooting rampage in your own town rather than ours.

  108. Joel Mielke
    January 13, 2011 at 8:11 am

    Robin claims that someone else is “like a rabid dog” and then whines about libel. The fact is that Sarah Palin and her ilk make “gun rights” one of their top priorities, claiming that their enemies would take away precious assault weapons. The imagery they chose was crosshairs. Sarah Palin is a gun nut, not a surveyor, so buck up and stop tossing out bullshit arguments.

  109. Big Al
    January 13, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Robin is looking for pointers on how to make her own blog worth a shit.

  110. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 13, 2011 at 8:47 am

    crosshairs or not,

    the individual chose their individual action to take action – the guilt falls 100% on the individual until it can be proven that another individual had an affect on the shooter. In fact, criminals make-up all kinds of stories to de-justify their positions. Just sayin’. In fact, pre-meditated choreographings of psychosis are used to deny total justice, like pulling faces to lessen punishments. Yes, more people are very good actors and actresses.

    JL

  111. Joel Mielke
    January 13, 2011 at 8:53 am

    Henchman has the Humboldt Herald confused with a court of law.

  112. January 13, 2011 at 8:55 am

    He also has gibberish confused with English.

  113. Reality Check
    January 13, 2011 at 8:57 am

    Am I the only one that skips through Jeff Lytle’s comments because I am tired of trying to make sense of his gibberish?

  114. January 13, 2011 at 8:58 am

    No.

  115. Plain Jane
    January 13, 2011 at 9:11 am

    No.

  116. Big Al
    January 13, 2011 at 9:14 am

    it’s easier if you can “paste” his voice to the comments, he writes conversationally. I skim them myself…

  117. Anononymous
    January 13, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Heraldo should have some kind of rule that posters are allowed to post a maximum of 30 times a day so that one or two people don’t dominate and drive others away.

  118. January 13, 2011 at 9:20 am

    If it could be done automatically I would consider it. For now you will have to scroll past the pink sunset.

  119. tra
    January 13, 2011 at 9:32 am

    Jeff’s writings sometimes do contain at least some relevant points. Unfortunately those points only account for maybe 5% of the content, which means that to try to get any useful information from his comments, one has to wade through the other 95%, mostly composed of rambling, incoherent and often paranoid rants and raves.

    Sorry, Jeff, but usually the needle of information hidden in your haystacks of nonsense is generally not worth the time it takes to sort through all the hay.

  120. Obama
    January 13, 2011 at 10:09 am

    “The truth is that none of us can know exactly what triggered this vicious attack. None of us can know with any certainty what might have stopped those shots from being fired, or what thoughts lurked in the inner recesses of a violent man’s mind.

    So yes, we must examine all the facts behind this tragedy. We cannot and will not be passive in the face of such violence. We should be willing to challenge old assumptions in order to lessen the prospects of violence in the future.

    But what we can’t do is use this tragedy as one more occasion to turn on one another. As we discuss these issues, let each of us do so with a good dose of humility. Rather than pointing fingers or assigning blame, let us use this occasion to expand our moral imaginations, to listen to each other more carefully, to sharpen our instincts for empathy, and remind ourselves of all the ways our hopes and dreams are bound together.

    After all, that’s what most of us do when we lose someone in our family – especially if the loss is unexpected. We’re shaken from our routines, and forced to look inward. We reflect on the past. Did we spend enough time with an aging parent, we wonder. Did we express our gratitude for all the sacrifices they made for us? Did we tell a spouse just how desperately we loved them, not just once in awhile but every single day?

    So sudden loss causes us to look backward – but it also forces us to look forward, to reflect on the present and the future, on the manner in which we live our lives and nurture our relationships with those who are still with us. We may ask ourselves if we’ve shown enough kindness and generosity and compassion to the people in our lives. Perhaps we question whether we are doing right by our children, or our community, and whether our priorities are in order. We recognize our own mortality, and are reminded that in the fleeting time we have on this earth, what matters is not wealth, or status, or power, or fame – but rather, how well we have loved, and what small part we have played in bettering the lives of others.

    That process of reflection, of making sure we align our values with our actions – that, I believe, is what a tragedy like this requires. For those who were harmed, those who were killed – they are part of our family, an American family 300 million strong. We may not have known them personally, but we surely see ourselves in them. In George and Dot, in Dorwan and Mavy, we sense the abiding love we have for our own husbands, our own wives, our own life partners. Phyllis – she’s our mom or grandma; Gabe our brother or son. In Judge Roll, we recognize not only a man who prized his family and doing his job well, but also a man who embodied America’s fidelity to the law. In Gabby, we see a reflection of our public spiritedness, that desire to participate in that sometimes frustrating, sometimes contentious, but always necessary and never-ending process to form a more perfect union.

    And in Christina…in Christina we see all of our children. So curious, so trusting, so energetic and full of magic.

    So deserving of our love.

    And so deserving of our good example. If this tragedy prompts reflection and debate, as it should, let’s make sure it’s worthy of those we have lost. Let’s make sure it’s not on the usual plane of politics and point scoring and pettiness that drifts away with the next news cycle.

    The loss of these wonderful people should make every one of us strive to be better in our private lives – to be better friends and neighbors, co-workers and parents. And if, as has been discussed in recent days, their deaths help usher in more civility in our public discourse, let’s remember that it is not because a simple lack of civility caused this tragedy, but rather because only a more civil and honest public discourse can help us face up to our challenges as a nation, in a way that would make them proud. It should be because we want to live up to the example of public servants like John Roll and Gabby Giffords, who knew first and foremost that we are all Americans, and that we can question each other’s ideas without questioning each other’s love of country, and that our task, working together, is to constantly widen the circle of our concern so that we bequeath the American dream to future generations.

    I believe we can be better. Those who died here, those who saved lives here – they help me believe. We may not be able to stop all evil in the world, but I know that how we treat one another is entirely up to us. I believe that for all our imperfections, we are full of decency and goodness, and that the forces that divide us are not as strong as those that unite us.”


    President BARACK OBAMA, in remarks delivered at a memorial service earlier tonight for the victims of the shootings in Tucson, Arizona.

  121. Joel Mielke
    January 13, 2011 at 10:55 am

    I’m sure that lots of people heard what the President had to say. So, what’s your point, Mr. copy and paste?

  122. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 13, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Wow,

    the Humboldt Herald Pucks are at it again led by the infamous leader Heraldo ——–>a.k.a. ROBIN GOODFELLOW….and such the good fellow H is…..or not, who knows.

    JL

  123. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 13, 2011 at 11:35 am

    Heraldo says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:20 am
    If it could be done automatically I would consider it. For now you will have to scroll past the pink sunset.

    Response: Hmmmm, since the only sunset used is a pink sunset, H try’s to apply color to incite vitriolic gay bashing in a weird way, Hmmmm. Then, the diss to the GLBT community. Heraldo is on a role attempting to label homophobic thoughts onto a poster he tries to imply is gay. New style in tactics or what.

    JL

  124. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 13, 2011 at 11:36 am

    Heraldo says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:20 am
    If it could be done automatically I would consider it. For now you will have to scroll past the pink sunset.

    Response: Hmmmm, since the only sunset used is a pink sunset, H try’s to apply color to incite vitriolic gay bashing in a weird way, Hmmmm. Then, the diss to the GLBT community. Heraldo is on a role attempting to label homophobic thoughts onto a poster he tries to imply is gay. New style in tactics or what.

    JL

  125. tra
    January 13, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Yeah, Jeff, because H mentioning the color of your sunset picture is just so clearly a case of “inciting gay bashing,” “a diss to the GLBT community,” and “labeling homophobic thoughts onto a poster he tries to imply is Gay.”

    Or maybe you are suffering from a paranoid-fueled persecution complex. Let the reader decide.

  126. Anonymous
    January 13, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    Henchman,

    I really doubt Heraldo’s use of “pink” in describing your avatar was an attempt to imply you are either gay or Communist. If you were being sarcastic, then never mind.

  127. January 13, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    So Obama had some nice “words” so what. Everyone from Hitler to Ghengis Kahn, made great speeches about freedom, family, national pride, your pet dog, a beloved child, their first love, mom, Dad, apple-freakin’-pie. Who gives a damn what polished Bull-Scat some proven-liar-politician spews?

  128. Reality Check
    January 13, 2011 at 1:59 pm

    JL-please quit posting. I don’t have the energy to respond to your disgusting accusation. Just please don’t post anymore-you do more damage to yourself than you do in making any sort of positive impact.

  129. owltotem
    January 13, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    no

  130. owltotem
    January 13, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    no in fact sometimes I delete my own for fear of being henchmanesque

  131. Mitch
    January 13, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    I’m fascinated by the concern that is apparently caused by JL’s posts. (I think I may have said some nasty things about them at some point in the past.)

    It’s just a blog, people. It’s easy to scroll on by.

    If JL gets satisfaction from expressing himself, that needn’t be anyone else’s concern. There are, IMO, many people who are expressing themselves by putting forth hate, and they bother me and make me worry for my safety and the safety of others. The Henchman of Justice is not one of them. His posts always contribute a different point of view.

  132. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 13, 2011 at 5:19 pm

    Mitch,

    I am no different than many others trying to discuss issues in various forums or methodologies to express pov’s that can’t always be understood the same way by everyone. We all may agree at times and disagree at other times; or, hardly agree at all – very normal.

    Yet, to instead chain link a personal attack by the consolidated bandwagon approach and then put in the word “pink” for a sunset that which is the only gravatar sunset in the thread or most threads, is to use color as a symbolism that which was more than necessary for identification purposes.

    Anyhow, it is the style of argumentative conjecture I read quite often here on this blog by the moderation crew. So, I wrote a response similar to the style I very so often read on this site. It is offensive, isn’t it.

    JL

  133. Joel Mielke
    January 13, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    The Henchman’s prose may be ugly and painfully strained but on the bright side, it’s indecipherable.

  134. Mike Buettner
    January 13, 2011 at 10:44 pm

    Safari now has a plug-in to hide the HOJ posts.

  135. January 14, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Hey Hench,
    “Who is going to pay for the shooter’s health care?”
    Listen my friend, we are already paying for all of it. Anyone who has had to deal with a mentally unbalanced person in their family knows just what a nightmare our system really is. As the death threats and the acting out gets worse and worse the police are powerless to do anything. Maybe if you said he was smoking pot they would arrest him, but for making the lives of his family a living hell; they can’t do anything.
    “John” my cousin. Was a football star in high school and got a full scholarship to college. he was being scouted by the Rams, and then in his sophomore year he just went nuts. Early-Adult-Onset-Schizophrenia is a night mare not only to the patient, but to the patient’s friends and family. While his father was laying in his death-bed dying of lung cancer, “John” was screaming about the devil, and painting his room green. not just the walls, but the tables, the dresser, the lamps, the pictures. Every single object in the room was painted. He constantly exposed himself to people walking bye. He would work his jaw incessantly, and then suddenly, violently attack someone. The police would come, take him for three days, and let him out. The destruction and hurt he caused is permanent. He just needed treatment and medication. He needed a doctor. But in our savage land, in our third-world backwater land of ignorance, he couldn’t get a doctor, because the wealthy, represented by Ronald Reagan, took offense at the idea of “Social Responsibility” for the weak, the sick, and the elderly.
    The rich are so busy stealing America’s money; they don’t want “Their” loot to be touched by its true owners.
    Please don’t mouth the talking points of the traitors, Henchman. You are already paying for their lavish lifestyles and their wars of robbery.
    People talk nonsense about socialism constantly, until they need a little basic help. And then they find out that the wealthy of this country have been enjoying the fruits of socialism for generations, and we who supply it; get none of it.

  136. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 14, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Moviedad,

    Thanks for seeing I was online and getting back – and yes, I too have admitted so very much that we already over-pay on taxes and those taxes are wasted. I did mention this as well to.

    Part of your quote here:

    “The rich are so busy stealing America’s money; they don’t want “Their” loot to be touched by its true owners.
    Please don’t mouth the talking points of the traitors, Henchman. You are already paying for their lavish lifestyles and their wars of robbery.
    People talk nonsense about socialism constantly, until they need a little basic help. And then they find out that the wealthy of this country have been enjoying the fruits of socialism for generations, and we who supply it; get none of it.”

    Response: I am in agreeance here to, but you misapply traitor support by inluding me into some scenario for which you have no clue on. I can guarantee I subsidize very little to the corporate conglomerate fascist scammers at the top of the pyramid schemes, which, by the way, includes local citizens who have usurped their public employment position as liberals and conservatives to become traitors as you say supporting the fascist (and socialist too) activities by a limited few people at the top of the pyramid schemes.

    Now, the key is for people such as yourself, myself and others to sit down and write a draft of all those things economiclly and financially that can be used to educate the masses in order to understand reality – we both should know that it is the young and elderly, those with health problems, etc…. basically anyone who feels inferior economically.

    The power is in the consumer until forced consumption is mandatory – a subtext to the real issue is greed. It works both ways by Democrats and Republicans (left and right)(liberal or conservative).

    It is a freak job campaign by the dualopolists who pull faces in public before going into the back corridors to concoct their social treasons. Take out the insiders that make up the treasonists, and what your left with is a bunch of uneducated dummies who could not ever see the tip of their nose because of all the false political eye candies going around.

    JL

  137. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 14, 2011 at 10:16 am

    Joel Mielke says:
    January 13, 2011 at 9:59 pm
    The Henchman’s prose may be ugly and painfully strained but on the bright side, it’s indecipherable.

    Response: Joel appears to have a crush on me, such the manly lover. Hey big boy, booty call?

    JL

  138. Anonymous
  139. Goldie
    January 14, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Thank you for the Times article referral 11:04. From that article “And the real challenge we face is not how to resolve our differences — something that won’t happen any time soon — but how to keep the expression of those differences within bounds. “

  140. Mitch
    January 14, 2011 at 11:27 am
  141. Anononymous
    January 14, 2011 at 11:47 am

    Funny, you people cried not at all when the angry voices were directed toward Pres Bush.

    Bush was called a Nazi, a war deserter, a philanderer, a drug addict, an alcoholic, a moron, a murderer, corrupt, a failure and on and on and on. Endlessly.

    His wife was called a murderer. His children were called alcoholics.

    Heraldo, Mitch, Plain Jane, Robash141 and many others here not only did NOT complain, but joined in.

    Hypocrites.

  142. Joel Mielke
    January 14, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Poor, “Anononymous.” He’s shocked, shocked to find that people don’t see things as he does.

  143. Mitch
    January 14, 2011 at 11:59 am

    11:47,

    I don’t want to appear uncivil, but many of the things you say I called Bush are variations on truths. You may have heard others speaking such truths, and you may have warped them into the versions you now assert that I and others have said.

    I won’t list the stories behind your memes, but you can find them from unbiased sources.

    But even if, just for the sake of argument, I have called Bush a “failure” on this blog, or if Plain Jane, Heraldo, or Robash141 has done so, do you see any difference between, on the one hand, various posters on a blog saying mean things and, on the other, political candidates inviting their supporters to shoot off M16s as part of campaign events?

  144. Anononymous
    January 14, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    Mitch, you are right. Those stories ARE “variations of the truth”. SO TOO IS EVERY SINGLE STORY ON THE MORE RESPONSIBLE TALK RADIO SHOWS !!!

    You may not agree with Rush, Boortz, Hannity but that doesn’t prove they are wrong. Now Beck is a charlatan as somebody said and Michael Savage is insane, but they don’t cause murders.

    I don’t want to shut down the liars (like Dan Rather) who claimed Bush deserted his post during the Vietnam War. But I don’t think Rather caused murders to happen. I am sickened by the left who now make absurd claims that Palin & Rush caused the AZ murders and are using that as an excuse to shut the right down.

    Rahm Emanuel, Obama’s right hand man, said “never let a crisis go to waste”. This is a cynical attempt by the left to further their campaign to silence conservatives by using the death of a nine year old girl. Shame on them and shame on those of you who are doing the same.

    And Mitch, use your head, when I use the term “you” I may or may not be referring to YOU personally. I also use the term in the broader sense of the left in this country.

  145. Anonymous
    January 14, 2011 at 3:50 pm

    “Now Beck is a charlatan as somebody said and Michael Savage is insane, but they don’t cause murders.”

    They don’t commit murders, but they certainly do encourage murders.

  146. tra
    January 14, 2011 at 3:55 pm

    Here’s a little thought experiment:

    Imagine that a mass shooting had occured, along the lines of what happened in Tuscon last week, but with the following four differences:

    (1) The assasination attempt was against a Republican elected official instead of a Democrat.

    (2) The “crosshairs” map was created by an Islamist instead of a Christianist like Sarah Palin.

    (3) The “crosshairs” map targed the Republican victim of the subsequent assasinatation attempt and other Republicans, rather than Democrats.

    (4) The call for “Second Amendment remedies” came from an Islamist, instead of a Christianist like Sharron Angle.

    Does anyone doubt that in this scenario, the Republicans would be showing a bit more concern about the possibility that the “crosshairs” image and the “Second Amendment remedies” rhetoric, and/or similar images and words, might have at least influenced the shooter in his choice of targets?

  147. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Do you think 3:31 really believes that demanding civil discourse from our media and politicians is “shutting the right down?” Does their message really require violent rhetoric and thinly veiled threats of civil war?

  148. Mitch
    January 14, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    3:31,

    “Never let a crisis go to waste” is nothing more than wise advice, whether you are of the left, right, or center. Is that the latest example of “Democrat heinousness”?

  149. Anonymous
    January 14, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    pj, are you arguing against the first amendment as it now stands?

  150. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    No, 4:29. I’m arguing against yelling “fire” in a crowded theater. In this particular instance, against a bunch of national leaders yelling “fire” in harmony which gives it much greater credibility.

  151. Ponder z
    January 14, 2011 at 6:11 pm

    Tra 3:55

    Yes! Republicrats!!!!

    Of course Republicans are not conservative-Tea Party Members.

  152. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 6:20 pm

    Plain Jane says:
    January 12, 2011 at 11:47 am
    Again Ponder Z makes claims he can’t support. On what does he base his claim that “it was funded by the left” (it wasn’t) and “communist studies are the cirriculum of this school?”

    Walter Annenberg was a lifelong conservative, registered and very active member of the GOP, close personal friend of Ronald Reagan, appointed as ambassador to UK by Richard Nixon. His wife was Chief of State Department Protocol, appointed by Reagan. I realize that by tea party standards no one to the left of the far right fringe is considered conservative, but their warped perception of conservatism doesn’t change a thing. What it does show is how radically extremist they really are.

    link

    Maybe you need new glasses, PonderZ. If the link doesn’t work here, it is available at the original post when I answered you 2 days ago.

  153. Ponder z
    January 14, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    So did you miss or are you ignoring my post on 1/12 4:30?

    If no to either, are you on DOPE ?

    You have posted no link.

  154. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 7:36 pm

    The response to your silly list of yes / no (and incorrectly answered questions) was posted originally on 1/12 11:47 and again just above. A working link is at the original location. If you are too lazy to find it, the link was to a biography of the Walter Annenberg detailing his many years of commitment, time and money, to Republican administrations and a very close personal friend of Reagan. You didn’t make a post on 1/12 4:30.

  155. Ponder z
    January 14, 2011 at 7:54 pm

    Annenberg is a minor side point. You of the left have accused the Tea Party, Palin, and Talk radio, of practically training the psycho how to shoot a gun. I have proven you wrong with the 4:30 posts. And you have nothing to say but your weak biography of Annenberg.

  156. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    As I stated just above. You didn’t make a post on 1/12 at 4:30. If you did, go copy and paste it because I can’t find it.

  157. Plain Jane
    January 14, 2011 at 8:06 pm

    As to you last post, you built your premise that Loughner went to a “communist” school based on your claim that it was funded by Obama, an obvious fallacy. Then when it was proven that it was funded by funded by Annenberg, you claimed he wasn’t a conservative. When it was proven he was a conservative, you say it doesn’t matter who funded it, it was a communist school. You have presented no evidence as to the curriculum of the school, just a false assumption without foundation. When the foundation collapses, you have nothing left but denial.

    This is classic circular logic built on a false premise – an affliction of the right wing mind. Beck is an adept.

  158. mresquan
    January 14, 2011 at 8:16 pm

    ponder z wrote,”You of the left have accused the Tea Party, Palin, and Talk radio, of practically training the psycho how to shoot a gun.”

    None of us on the left will accuse you of being literate though,as you don’t seem to comprehend what is being written about where and why we have issues with Palin or the Tea Party in regards to the shootings.

  159. oldphart
    January 14, 2011 at 8:34 pm

    Take a deep breath. This too shall pass. Or as my Irish grandmother use to say “Big nose, long tongue, hell of a noise, nothing done”. Pretty much sums up this thread.

  160. Ponder z
  161. Ponder z
    January 14, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    8:16
    The Tea Party, Palin, talk Radio, and all conservatives and surveyors, have absolutely nothing to do with the AZ shooting. The left started a blame game and you stooges are passing off disinformation, you really believe. It was all Left on Left assault. Shooter wanted more extreme leftist agenda, victim was too center. End of story.

  162. January 14, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    Ponder Z’s post from 1/12 at 4:30 is posted above at 9:10.

  163. tra
    January 14, 2011 at 11:13 pm

    Ponder z:

    I’ll agree with you that I don’t think it’s fair to describe the shooter as a clear-cut right-winger (though it’s true that some of his oddball beliefs were drawn from that end of the political spectrum). But he certainly wasn’t what anyone rational would consider a clear-cut “leftist” either.

    For example, he was virulently anti-abortion to the point of screaming at a classmate that she was a “babykiller” and a “terrorist” because she wrote a poem about abortion.

    And your theory is that he shot Giffords, who is pro-choice, because she was not far enough to the left? Sorry, that just doesn’t add up.

  164. tra
    January 14, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    More than left or right, the shooter seems to have been obsessed with various conspiracy theories and crackpot points of view. Some of these, like his obsession with the Gold Standard, do echo the concerns and demands of the loony end of the conservative base, while others, like the 9/11 “Truther” / “Inside Job” conspiracy theories are more commonly found among those out in deep left field.

    And one of the things that the shooter seemed most obsessed with, the idea that the government is engaged in mind control by controlling the use of grammar (whatever that’s supposed to mean) doesn’t appear to me to be either left-wing or right-wing…just nut-wing.

    So as convenient as it might be for the partisans on both sides, I just don’t think it is a clear case of “right-wing nut shoots Democrat” or “left-wing nut shoots moderate.”

    I certainly don’t think that rhetoric from Palin or Angle or Limbaugh or Beck or any of the other vitriolic clowns actually “caused” the shooting, at least not in the sense that their rhetoric was the sole cause. But it’s certainly possible that the atmosphere of hatred and not-so-thinly-veiled encouragement to violence fostered by those folks, and others of their ilk, had at least some influence on the shooter.

    But it seems just as likely that he was influenced even more by the actions of the perpetrators of previous mass-murder shooting sprees like Columbine.

  165. Anonymous
    January 15, 2011 at 12:11 am

    With the Nation sinking deeper into Debt, the Gold Standard may soon seem like a straw worth grasping.

  166. Ponder z
    January 15, 2011 at 6:31 am

    speaking of mind control and conspiracy theory. Could it be, the Obama gang had this nut scoped out and set him up? Why yes, yes they could. A zany attempt to bring solidarity to the nation by tragedy. A gun crime in a conservative, gun state. Known wacko, moderated Democrat offical and Innocent bystanders, dope, guns, pagan worship, classroom outbursts. Its all falling into place. Forget the birth certificate and radio controlled airliners.

    LOL!

    I personally dont believe this.

    Please dont take this seriously.

  167. Plain Jane
    January 15, 2011 at 7:16 am

    There is no post from PonderZ on 1/12 at 4:30, at least none that show on my computer.

    The go from Anonymous at 4:19 to Eric Kirk at 4:45

    Anonymous says:
    January 12, 2011 at 4:19 pm
    I feel sorry for all of you posting here. You are raving nuts.

    Eric Kirk says:
    January 12, 2011 at 4:45 pm
    Check out the gun sales in Arizona since the shooting.

    Which I think is pretty sick myself.
    —————————-
    I responded to the last post PonderZ made on 1/12 and posted it several times now.
    Links are not questions.

  168. January 15, 2011 at 12:15 pm

    Yeah, the gold-standard would be great; seeing’s as how the gold is now completely owned by the ruling class.

  169. Joel Mielke
    January 15, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    “With the Nation sinking deeper into Debt, the Gold Standard may soon seem like a straw worth grasping.”

    And how would regressing to the gold standard help us with our debt?

  170. Plain Jane
    January 15, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    It seems odd that someone would post a link to refute right wing nuts being incited by rhetoric the very misinformation site that gave birth to the birthers and libelous smears with fraud and malice aforethought, home of Corsi the Swiftboat liar.

  171. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 15, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    moviedad says:
    January 15, 2011 at 12:15 pm
    Yeah, the gold-standard would be great; seeing’s as how the gold is now completely owned by the ruling class.

    Response: Well, since the dollar bill ain’t worth its green, and since gold ownership is certified notes of interest,

    Ye who holds the gold, really controls the gold. Ye who has certifiable paper interest may very well be wiping their butts one day with it as well.

    The gold bubble was fabricated by those who got out early from the finanial meltdown and sucked in the late bloomers and bottom feeders.

    JL

  172. skippy
    January 15, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    I’m disheartened to report this; more news and terrible timing. It’s not over yet. Sigh.

    (By Nicole Santa Cruz and Kate Linthicum, Los Angeles Times,January 16, 2011):

    “A man who was wounded in last week’s shooting rampage in Tucson was apprehended by authorities Saturday after he allegedly threatened a “Tea Party” activist at a town hall meeting of victims and eyewitnesses of the attack…

    James Eric Fuller, a 63-year-old Democratic activist, was arrested after shouting “You’re dead!” at Tucson Tea Party spokesman Trent Humphries… Fuller was shot in the knee and back Jan. 8 when a gunman opened fire, killing six and injuring 13, including Democratic Rep. Gabrielle Giffords.

    Fuller, a disabled veteran and former campaign volunteer for Giffords, was charged with making threats, intimidation and disorderly conduct and was involuntarily committed for a psychiatric evaluation.

    In an interview with Democracy Now on Thursday, Fuller linked the shooting to conservative leaders associated with the tea party, including Sarah Palin, Fox News commentator Glenn Beck and Nevada Senate candidate Sharron Angle. “It looks like Palin, Beck, Sharron Angle and the rest got their first target,” Fuller said…”

    The full article:
    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-arizona-shooting-threat-20110116,0,1503895.story

  173. Ponder z
    January 16, 2011 at 6:26 am

    Fuller is a wackjob too. I find it astonishing that people are still blaming the Tea Party and conservatives, when the shooter has NO association with them. I guess the Brother must really be in the Black Panthers too.

  174. Plain Jane
    January 16, 2011 at 7:36 am

    Yes Skippy, Mr. Fuller after being wounded in the attack and seeing his friends murdered freaked out at a gun advocate and made a quasi-violent threat “You are dead.” If Mr. Fuller acted on this “threat,” or if someone acts for Mr. Fuller in fulfilling this quasi-threat, Mr. Fuller would at least bear part of the blame. Anger is a very common occurrence after nearly being murdered and seeing your friends die. I doubt many of us would be thinking very rationally had we experienced what Mr. Fuller so recently did.

  175. Plain Jane
    January 16, 2011 at 7:42 am

    It’s the vicious climate of hate they (and right wing media) have created, PonderZ. Is it really so hard to understand that unstable people hearing night after night and all day on the radio the propaganda that their country is being deliberately destroyed, that the Marxist, fascist, Kenyan anti-colonialist, socialist, communist dictator who stole the election with the help of ACORN voter fraud wants to make white people slaves and put them in FEMA camps might feel completely justified, nay PATRIOTIC, if they get their gun and kill the people responsible?

  176. skippy
    January 16, 2011 at 9:49 am

    What ticked off Mr. Fuller at this TV filming event… being previously shot twice and a disabled veteran?

    “KGUN reported that Fuller took exception to comments by Republican state Rep. Terri Proud and Tucson Tea Party spokesman Trent Humphries.

    Fuller was in the front row and apparently became upset when Humphries suggested that any conversations about gun control should be delayed until all the dead were buried, KGUN reported.”

    (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/41094534/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/)

    Perhaps former Arizona Sheriff Mack, author of “From My Cold Fingers– Why America Needs Guns”, will address this in Fortuna with local Tea Partiers on February 5th.

  177. High Finance
    January 16, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Plain Jane, try to think beyond your usual partisan knee jerk response.

    Do you ever listen to the “climate of hate” on MSNBC ?

    Or do you excuse that rhetoric just like you did with the Obama quote about bringing a gun to the debate ?

  178. Plain Jane
    January 16, 2011 at 11:41 am

    I’m done trying to discuss anything with functional illiterates like yourself who are incapable of understanding bringing a gun to defend yourself against a knife isn’t advocating violence, but a metaphor about having more powerful weapons to defend yourself than your opponent has to attack you and is the foundation of our national defense, to have a gun when they have a knife. It wasn’t Obama who told people to come armed to political events and to expect anyone to believe your claim that “bring a gun to a knife fight” was in any way threatening proves what an idiot you really are.

    I don’t get my news or views from TV, but I haven’t seen a single piece of evidence that anyone at MSNBC has used the crazy rhetoric that comes from Beck, et al, every night on Fox and 24 / 7 right wing hate radio. The closest I saw of that sort of anti-Bush rhetoric was Guerilla News Network and sites like that, not mainstream media and certainly not from Fox although there were certainly concerns about loss of freedom from the Patriot Act, wireless wiretapping, military tribunals, torture, etc, expressed across a wide swathe of the public on all sides of the political landscape.

  179. skippy
    January 16, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    There does appear to be more amplified, consistently violent rhetoric coming from the political right as opposed to the left.

    An accredited and peer-reviewed Professor, author, historian and scholar, Dr. Palermo, in writing his recent article “When Violence Comes From the Right, Media Hear No Evil”, noted:

    “The irony here is stunning: The noise machine of the organized Right in this country — with its Echo Chamber, its 24-hour “news” channel, its think tanks and publishing houses, its talk radio, its money, and its power — thunders deafeningly throughout our political discourse. Yet when one of its members commits an act of violence the whole apparatus suddenly turns to convince us that the only noise it really makes is as quiet as the sound of a bird’s wing cutting the air.”

    Dr. Palermo’s events leading up to this irony are here:

    http://www.laprogressive.com/the-media/violence-media-hear-evil/

    And what are Dr. Palermo’s hard earned credentials? From his bio:

    “Dr. Palermo is Associate Professor of American History at CSU, Sacramento. He’s the author of two books on Robert F. Kennedy: In His Own Right (2001) and RFK (2008). Associate Professor, History, CSU, Sacramento. Bachelor’s degrees in Sociology and Anthropology from UC Santa Cruz, Master’s degree in History from San Jose State University, Master’s degree and Doctorate in American History from Cornell University. Expertise includes political history, presidential politics, presidential war powers, social movements of the 20th century, movements of the 1960s, civil rights, and foreign policy history.”

    He knows his stuff. His column can be read here:

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/joseph-a-palermo

  180. Joel Mielke
    January 16, 2011 at 6:49 pm

    “functional illiterates like yourself”?

    “Yourself” is a reflexive. If you’re going to call someone illiterate, you might want to deliver the bad news grammatically.

  181. Plain Jane
    January 16, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    Thanks for the grammar lession, master. But grammar and functional literacy aren’t the same. Few people can pick apart sentence structure as well as you. Even fewer give a shit.

  182. Joel Mielke
    January 16, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Just sayin.’

  183. Ponder z
    January 16, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    Jane, you are an upset and angry person aren’t you? What with the Conservative Radio folk and The Tea Party Patriots running amuck. You just about piss yourself trying to keep track of it all. I have given proof the shooter is not a “Right Winger” in any way, but you and others on HH just cant grasp reality.

    Your defence of Obama at 11:41 are a perfect example of your double standard, when compared to Palin’s web page. You look like a real assclown.

  184. Anonymous
    January 16, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    jane doesn’t live in Eureka, doesn’t watch or read the news yet she regularly pontificates her cliches and spouts off about anything and everything.

    Then when anyone catches her in her mistakes or hypocrisy she over reacts and embarrasses herself in anger. Never giving a point, never admitting her hypocrisy, excusing anything a Democrat does while making up shit about Republicans.

    What a complete fool. What a dunderhead.

  185. January 16, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    Jane I noticed that the only people on corporate media allowed to hypothesize that something was illegal about the Patriot act had to have a huge “But….”

    I for one feel indebted to you for being a ‘common-sense-warrior’ and having the energy to stand up to these “Vichy Wannabees”
    People forget that the “Gun to the Knifefight” is from: “The Untouchables” it’s the Chicago way. Right? And where is Obama from? Jezcsh, Ten Thousand statements from the right, with no question about what they are saying. and they dig and they dig, and they have to really stretch to find anything even the least bit comparable from the “left”. Even if they did find something; they are the only ones who try to say that democrats are the “Left”, They’re not, they’re just more rich guys who feed from the same troth.

  186. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 5:25 am

    I said I don’t get my news or views from TV and 9:27 changes that to don’t watch or read the news. What sort of debate can you have with people so incapable of understanding what they read, even when it’s in simple words and short sentences? It’s no wonder they get their views from right wing pundits who are paid to spin everything to their political advantage rather than present the facts and let their viewers decide. I doubt the sort of people who rely on the “Beck’s for information would understand the news if they read it themselves. They are so uninformed that they fall for every deceit from the likes of Beck and Malkin, spew it incessantly and send out e-mails which make their rounds, reappearing long after the claims have been soundly refuted.

    9:27 also said I don’t live in Eureka and that’s true. I live outside the city limits as do a number of posters including HiFi and Crawford. Would he restrict posting to those who live inside the city limits or to just those who agree with him?

  187. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 5:47 am

    Thanks Moviedad. I appreciate your endeavors as well. These haters don’t bother me. I can hold my own and then some – even the snipes from left-leaners who pick at grammar when they can’t pick at content.

    On the subject of media censorship, remember when MSNBC fired Phil Donahue? He had the highest rated show on MSNBC but they canceled it and lied about why. Not until an internal memo was leaked was the truth reported, that he was fired because “he would be a difficult public face for NBC in time of war.” That’s when I stopped watching TV for news. It is totally controlled by mega corporations with their tentacles in everything from baby food to war and their news coverage is filtered and censored to fit their corporate agenda. The right wing echo chamber is pure wing nut political propaganda, not news but views. I read 4 newspapers a day (including the T-S), not every article; but a wide variety of subjects from politics and political opinion to science and business. It’s hard to keep up but staying informed is my patriotic duty.

  188. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 5:54 am

    People who think that “If they bring a knife, we’ll bring a gun” is violent rhetoric and especially those who think it equals all the violent rhetoric from the right are simple minded. Their inability to understand the importance of context and proportion makes them perfect dupes for demagogues. That there are so many is bad news for the future of the country but change is inevitable and this too shall change – for better or worse.

    As I have stated repeatedly, the political views of the shooter are irrelevant. Everyone is affected by the climate of extremism that spews from the right. Olbermann has had the decency to apologize for his use of violent rhetoric in the Clinton campaign. The right has done nothing buy deny, deflect and lie about being attacked. The NYTimes has an article today about how bad it is in Arizona. One doesn’t have to listen, read or watch news. Their extremism is expressed in their legislation, on billboards and in banning funding for schools which offer ethnic studies. The AZ Tea Party leader didn’t attend the memorial for the massacre victims due to fear of violence so apparently he and Palin “get it,” at least when it is they who may be targeted because of violent rhetoric.

  189. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 6:21 am

    Correction: The article referenced is at the Washington Post.
    link

  190. skippy
    January 17, 2011 at 6:47 am

    Keep ’em coming Jane.

  191. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 17, 2011 at 7:37 am

    These haters don’t bother me. I can hold my own and then some – even the snipes from left-leaners who pick at grammar when they can’t pick at content.

    Response: yes, cursing posters are hateful people who can hold their own, obviously. No arguments there.

    JL in memory of MLK.

  192. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    January 17, 2011 at 8:17 am

    South Africans barely agreed to let WalMart into their lives to tap their country’s emerging wealth that will now be redistributed again as corporate mega profits by way of penurist pay scales for the cheap slave labor throughout the world where current costs are also very low cuz under-developed economies are so very little. So, America’s economy goes sour during a time prices are sky-rocketing and net worths are decreasing while the mega fascist corporate conglomerates move elsewhere to invalidate another micro economy by working with government regulators to increase tax collections through profits by keeping wages low, increasing societal costs and justifying the mega profits because of such trickeries by elected officlas that can create exactions that which are then forwarded onto the transaction or sales price that the consumer eats. Yes, such the monopolized price-fixed society humans live in and for what, dreams of well-beings and comfort that force money and spending and ownership desires to run rampant? This is a situation where the brainwashed consumer has lost all bowel control and is just making a fecal mess of this country while cruding on the good people.

    I must wonder as well – was this so-called comfort during the time for which people justified their senseless spending habits that lost them their homes, cars, jobs, created debts and bailouts, etc… just to then have their neighbor pay for someone else’s financial mistakes. This is proof of a dying country – responsibilities getting played down and voided.

    JL

  193. humboldturtle
    January 17, 2011 at 8:20 am

    “So…America’s consumer eats” is my favorite sentence in that last bit. Maybe ever.

  194. suzy blah blah
    January 17, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Jane, the reality we experience is influenced by the language we use to define it. Jared Laughner warned us about the government’s plan to implement mind-control through imposing language restrictions. First they want you to change ‘yourself’ to a mere ‘you’, next they’ll want to change ‘who’ you are into ‘whom’ they’d like you to be. The only way to avoid these corrective measures is to be careful and don’t say nothing –say anything.

  195. Anonymous
    January 17, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “If they bring a knife, we’ll bring a gun” is certainly the same use of violent speak as using gun targets on a map to show political targets. They are both only metaphors. Only the insane will take them literally.

  196. Goldie
    January 17, 2011 at 11:56 am

    Only the insane will pick up a gun and shoot at a crowd. I do think we will see that metaphors will be more carefully chosen from now on. These conversations, even the disagreements have created a new sensitivity on all sides.

  197. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Sorry, but it just seems disingenuous for the right to claim they don’t know what, “If they bring a knife” means.

    IF your neighbor said he was coming over to knife you, would you get your gun out?

    If you said to your neighbor, “If you bring a knife, I’ll get out my gun” violent rhetoric?

    Is that really the same (note there is only this one example) as “lock and load,” Targets plus “Don’t Retreat – Reload?” How about “I tell people don’t kill ALL the Democrats,….” or how about “Come and shoot an automatic rifle to help take out Giffords?” I understand that the right is very fond of militaristic lingo and guns and all that, but I agree with Goldie. We need to tone it down lest more nuts think they need to kill Americans to save America. Keith Olbermann has apologized and agreed we need to be more civil. As for the rest ….. Crickets would have been more appropriate than the most noted response.

  198. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 1:07 pm

    Lest we forget, it was the Tea Party who was telling people to bring guns to, not a knife fight, but political events, including those by President Obama. Not metaphorically, literally.

  199. Anonymous
    January 17, 2011 at 2:47 pm

    Oh really ? Links ? A couple of individuals don’t count, you said “The Tea Party” which indicates it was their policy.

    Only a knee-jerk Obama apologist would try the ludicrous argument that his “We’ll bring a gun” as anything other than violent rhetoric. I heard that several individuals went out & murdered after that comment.

  200. tra
    January 17, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    “I heard that several individuals went out & murdered after that comment.”

    I heard that people sometimes make shit up.

  201. Plain Jane
  202. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Arrrgh!

    link

  203. Anonymi
    January 17, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    OH JESUS, you read Media Ite ? Get off your knee-jerk prejudice & listen carefully what that Tea Party really said and ignore Mathews input.

    You sound like a very angry & embittered person Jane. One filled with feelings of powerlessness & victimhood. I hope you get some help or your life will continue to be very unhappy.

  204. Plain Jane
    January 17, 2011 at 7:03 pm

    No, 6:51. I googled for the video of Matthews and the Tea Party founder and that was one of the sites that came up. Where it’s posted doesn’t change the video. It’s available over at Sohum Parlance from You Tube, I believe, if that suits you better.

    Projections of your angry and bitter life onto me don’t change my or anyone else’s opinions, 6:51. But your personal attack is noted.

  205. Anonymous
    January 17, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    I agree. Jane is embittered. The right is always wrong. The right’s rhetoric is always literal, but the left can use language that is subject to translation, theory. Some of us “righties” are peace-mongers too, Jane. Some of us are old hippies, and some of us you would find to be “okay”. Get off your high horse.

  206. Anonymous
    January 17, 2011 at 11:47 pm

    All this right-left talk is more blather. Don’t we get enough of this mindless name-calling on Fox News and MSNBC? Must we also endure it here on the Humboldt Herald?

  207. Anonymous
    January 17, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    if you want two sides of the story, yes. Otherwise, no, you can just listen to the left supporting the left with a blather in a endless loop.

  208. Anonymous
    January 17, 2011 at 11:59 pm

    don’t you mean “balance” not “blather”? Seems like the other side needs someone speaking.

  209. robash141
    January 18, 2011 at 8:25 pm

    Has anonymous called out anonymous yet?

  210. Lipton Lager
    January 26, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Wow, a right-wing, gun-toting sheriff is invited to Humboldt to tell us why non-violence is a poor strategy.

    Way to go Tea Party. Being both pro-gun and anti-science, you make stupidity actually scary!

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