Home > Humboldt County General Plan Update, Rob Arkley > DEVELOPERS: Stop the General Plan Update

DEVELOPERS: Stop the General Plan Update

UPDATE: The image accompanying this post caused a strong reaction from some. Here’s another, compliments of CalBuzz.


NCHB's Julie Williams and Libya's Muammar Gaddafi.

Call it a coordinated attack.

The NorCal Association of Home Builders (NCHB) has released its March 2011 newsletter which echos calls by the Eureka City Council to stop the Humboldt County General Plan Update. But who is echoing who?

These demands are not new, but they do appear suddenly more synchronized.

For the last several years, the NCHB and their ilk have dominated almost every meeting of the Planning Commission or any other body focused on future development in Humboldt County. One of their biggest cheerleaders is developer Rob Arkley’s Sacramento lobbyist, Kay Backer.

So it’s amusing to see the NCHB take a play from the book of ousted Egyptian dictator Hosni Mubarak and Libya’s Muammar Gaddafi who blame outside forces for uprisings in those countries.

Quoth the newsletter: “Wouldn’t it be easier on all of our communities and people and budgets if we stuck to what is good that we have in the existing Framework Plan rather than to throw it out and start all over because of political pressure from outside our area?”

Does this mean they are sending Backer back to the valley?

  1. the Once-ler
    March 1, 2011 at 9:23 am

    I meant no harm. I most truly did not.
    But I had to grow bigger.
    So bigger I got.
    I biggered my factory.
    I biggered my roads.
    I biggered my wagons.
    I biggered the loads
    of the Thneeds I shipped out.
    I was shipping them forth to the South!
    To the East! To the West! To the North!
    I went right on biggering… selling more Thneeds.
    And I biggered by money, which everyone needs!!!

  2. longwind
    March 1, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Will they start limiting Gaddafi to three minutes?

  3. TimH
    March 1, 2011 at 9:42 am

    She is talking about state regulations. There are times when they don’t fit so well in a rural area.

    From the newsletter:

    DID YOU KNOW there is political pressure to go along with
    the politically correct planning
    ideas of larger urban areas?
    There are many laws, rules and
    regulations now in effect
    through state agencies that
    have had a decimating, crippling result locally.
    Wouldn’t it be easier on all of
    our communities and people
    and budgets if we stuck to what
    is good that we have in the existing Framework Plan rather
    than to throw it out and start all
    over because of political pressure from outside our area?
    Call your Supervisor TODAY!
    Ask them to direct the
    Planning Director to keep the
    existing Framework Plan in
    place (Alternative D), have Citizen’s Advisory Committees reactivated to revise those portions of the Plan that need to
    coincide with new legal requirements set forth by the State.
    This would save the Planning
    Commission time and would
    also put an end to the unnecessary divisive tension in our
    communities that the current
    effort is creating.
    Jimmy Smith: 476-2391
    Cliff Clendenen: 476-2392
    Mark Lovelace: 476-2393
    Virginia Bass: 476-2394
    Ryan Sundberg: 476-2395

    The “BRING BACK COMMON SENSE” line is the best to me. Somewhere in the current plan there is a section that talks about common sense. From my understanding, that section will be gone. They have literally removed common sense from the plan. That’s funny to me.

  4. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 9:45 am

    If you’re going to make this claim about the city council, it should be pointed out how closely county planning mirrors Healthy Humboldt rhetoric.

  5. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 9:53 am

    How about this for common sense. Makes more sense than the hysterical BS coming from the Kay Backers.

    “As far as I see it, the main problem has been the time period. 13 years is indeed far too long to stretch out a process such as this. Much of the input that people gave in the last decade has been incorporated. But so much time has gone by it is difficult to see how the information was integrated.

    But there is a record: take a look at the comment letters throughout the years, and look at the language being considered – it is clear that diverse views are accounted for.

    Regardless of ways the process could have been better, the County has done a good job of putting forward a range of alternatives that reflect a wide range of perspectives in the County. Now it is up to our elected representatives to wade through it all to adopt a final plan that is reflective of the needs of the citizenry.

    It is not too late to weigh in and have your voice heard! We don’t need to wait for anyone to form our own citizen’s committees, or join up with groups that are already expressing their views on what we want our future to look like. And we certainly don’t need to put the GPU on hold in order to do so.”

  6. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Putting a picture of Williams next to a picture of a brutal dictator like Gaddafi is ridiculously inflammatory and totally inappropriate. Kinda reminds me of Rose’s disgusting comparison between the Herald and the KKK.

  7. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 10:22 am

    As a general heraldo “supporter” I would have to agree with tra on this one.

  8. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 10:29 am

    ridiculously inflammatory and totally inappropriate.

    It’s classic Heraldo. Dig deep in the archives and you’ll see Heraldo used to be this inflammatory on a regular basis. It remains to be seen whether Heraldo became slightly more moderate in rhetoric after gaining readership or gaining writing staff. This post has a classic hits feel to it.

  9. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 10:33 am

    I suspect the justification for the use of the Gaddadi image will go something like this: But Williams isn’t being compared to Gaddafi, Williams’ blaming of “outside forces” is being compared to Gaddafi’s blaming of “outside forces.”

    Of course, that would be exactly the same as Rose’s justification for the KKK images: I’m not comparing Heraldo to the KKK, I’m just comparing Heraldo’s anonymity to the anonymity of Klan members.

    If somebody has some different justification for why it’s O.K. to compare Williams to Gaddafi, I’m all ears.

  10. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 10:33 am

    I think it’s funny. Course to many of us this is really only entertainment anyway. Kinda like a poorly written and factually void SNL skit.

  11. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 10:44 am

    And then there’s the fact that even as Heraldo complains about Williams and her allies pointing to “outside influence” he turns right around and makes exactly the same complaint about them, with this remark:

    “Does this mean they are sending Backer back to the valley?”

    So, for consistency, perhaps Heraldo ought to put his own picture up there alongside Williams and Gaddafi… or better yet, take down the inappropriate and inflammatory image.

    I do think there’s a legitimate point to be raised about the gamesmanship and rhetoric employed by Williams and her allies, but as is all too often the case, the incendiary image used to try to illustrate that point ends up being a distraction that only detracts from the point that Heraldo is trying to make. At least that’s the way it works for me.

  12. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 10:50 am

    I would say that imaginary situations and ridiculous proposals of the NCHB are as farcical as Gaddafi’s crazy rants, just not as genocidal.

  13. March 1, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Below is an editorial I wrote on Kay Backer in 2006. In her defense, it turned out that building at a rate that supplied the speculator fueled housing bubble did get prices to drop by half or more in her own town of Sacramento and other communities that let the developers have their way. Here in Humboldt where our current general plan did not allow for such rapid development, we were largely spared from the worst of the crash, with price drops of closer to 20%. The fact that she continues arguing for the same policies after the crash that she was arguing for before the crash is further proof that this is not someone to whom we should listen.

    HELP is of no help to Humboldt


    My Word by Richard Salzman

    Eureka Times Standard

    In response to Kay Backer’s My Word of March 22, Getting Humboldt leaders to lead: Kay Backer is a paid professional spin doctor from Sacramento. Hired by local developers, she is paid to badger county government and bamboozle the public. She feigns concern for our families by shedding crocodile tears about so-called affordable housing here in Humboldt County.

    It’s ridiculous that Kay Backer is even treated as a legitimate voice in our local affairs just because Rob Arkley and HELP summon her to town for a meeting, or to send off an e-mail full of accusations and threats to the media. She represents nothing other than a handful of developers. Are there even five people who will admit to being a member of HELP?

    It’s absurd that those who pay her (they call themselves HELP but really should be called HELP-Yourself) are implying that the reason they want to build more houses is because they want to see home values drop. When has any developer ever wanted to see any housing prices drop? Do you want to see the value of your home decline?

    In the Sacramento area, where Ms. Backer lives, homes are being built at an astounding rate. Strangely enough, housing prices there are still shooting up and now routinely cost about half a million dollars. Is that what Ms. Backer’s backers have in mind as affordable housing?

    Now Rob Arkley is threatening to use his money to sue the county unless planning officials buy into HELP’s fabricated projections of housing needs. Isn’t that called blackmail?

    I have no objection to developers making money off constructing houses. But it’s an outrage to be told that the reason they want permission to build more — and forever change the essentially rural character of Humboldt County — has anything to do with stopping people from moving out of town, lowering home prices or anything other than their search for higher profits.

    Where will Kay Backer’s concern for our community be the day after her paychecks stop coming in? Will she still be shouting HELP or just go on to her next lucrative public relations campaign?


  14. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:01 am

    …just not as genocidal.

    “just not AS genocidal?” How about “not genocidal “AT ALL.”

    And that is exactly why putting their pictures side-by-side is an act of incredibly poor judgement on Heraldo’s part.

    When you’re comparing people that you happen to disagree with on the County General Plan with a brutal dictator and terrorist with buckets of blood on his hands — well, at that point I’d have to say that you’ve lost all sense of perspective…and along with it, whatever credibility you might hope to confer on your opinions.

  15. the Once-ler
    March 1, 2011 at 11:03 am

    And then I go mad.
    I got terribly mad.
    I yelled at the Lorax, “Now listen here, Dad!
    All you do is yap-yap and say, ‘Bad! Bad! Bad! Bad!’
    Well, I have my rights, sir, and I’m telling you
    I intend to go on doing just what i do!
    And, for your information, you Lorax, I’m figgering
    on biggering



    and BIGGERING,

    turning MORE Truffula Trees into Thneeds
    which everyone, EVERYONE, EVERYONE needs!”

  16. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 11:06 am

    Anyone who applauded the Rally to Restore Sanity needs to understand that Heraldo is part of the problem. He is a polarizing force that doesn’t let facts get in his way.

  17. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 11:09 am

    They are both together because the world has 7 billion people trying to make a living and 10 million bullies trying to make a killing. Oh sure, 10 million bullies come in 10 million shades and belong to a thousand different movements or parties. But over history, the subtlety of the shades and the names of the movements blend into a net effect: Poverty, exploitation, greed, war, and ultimately, the despoiling of our habitat. Meanwhile back at the ranch … “Julie is NOT as scummy as Muammar” (sigh)

  18. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:12 am

    It’s too late for Heraldo to avoid this embarassing lapse of judgement entirely…probably somebody has already taken a screen shot of it, and/or it is cached by Google.

    But Heraldo could still do the right thing by taking down the image of Gaddafi and the references to Gaddafi within the post, and, for an extra dose of redemption, adding a brief “mea culpa” at the end.

    When Rose made the same kind of sick comparison (Herad to KKK), and was called on it, she either couldn’t recognize her mistake, or couldn’t admit to it, so she doubled down in a series of pathetic rationalizations and defensive attacks on those criticizing her.

    Heraldo still has the opportunity to take a higher road by admitting the lapse in judgement and correcting it. I guess we’ll see if he chooses to take that opportunity, or whether the Herald will wallow in the gutter alongside the likes of Watchpaul and the Mirror.

  19. Drama Queen
    March 1, 2011 at 11:18 am

    Heraldo is a very bad man. I hope he comes to his senses soon because I have very thin skin and I am very easily offended. Take it down now Heraldo!!! I don’t like it. I don’t, I don’t, I don’t!!!!!!!!!!

  20. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:19 am

    Sam Spade,

    That’s a pretty lame justification of this smear-post, and I think you know it.

    – tra

  21. High Finance
    March 1, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Heraldo is never embarassed by any of his embarassing lapse of judgement entirely.

    It is a common fighting, er, I mean debating, technique by some to try & demean their opponents. Instead of admitting their foes are a lot of people with a common approach & beliefs about development, they have to come up with some zany accusations about a conspiracy. Then to top off their charges, it all has to be masterminded by one bogeyman.


    Isn’t more housing, cheaper housing a good thing for the people ??

  22. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 11:23 am

    Tra. Re-read it. The word “smear” was used by Nixon’s supporters and Gaddafi’s. It is a word dragged out every time some sissy is “offended”. There are bullies and their net effect is as I described. Get over it!!!!!!!!!

  23. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 11:25 am

    “common approach & beliefs” Hi-Fi is high! What common beliefs? What common approach? What have you been smoking?

  24. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:31 am


    Yes, it is.

    Of course, so is employing the word “comrade” in referring to people with whom you’re fighting, er, I mean debating.

  25. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:40 am

    O.K. Sam, so according to you Williams is a “bully” suitable for comparison to a murderous thug like Gaddafi, and, I and anyone else who finds that comparison offensive is a “sissy.” What is this, 4th grade?

    Meanwhile using the word “smear” to refer to, well, a smear, that somehow puts me in the same category as Nixon and Gaddafi. Riiiiiiiight.

    Yeah, keep digging down deeper, dude… I’m sure you’ll make it out of that hole eventually.

  26. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Keep sniveling Tra, you wear it well.

  27. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:54 am

    Ah, now I’m a sniveling /i> sissy. Thanks! Coming from you that means a lot!

    Between Heraldo’s choice of images, and your childish comments, this thread truly is Mirroresque.

  28. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Worse yet, a sniveling sissy who sometimes screws up the use of italics!

    You know who else screwed up italics? Gadaffi, Nixon, and Hitler, that’s who!

  29. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 11:59 am

    reason can be so very fleeting…

  30. Living In Eureka
    March 1, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    It is hard for some in this town to comprehend that they are part of the State of California! Let’s see now, we should keep the outsiders OUT, they’re the ones that cause all the problems & also dilute our perfect gene pool! Sacramento doesn’t understand us, the Coastal Commission doesn’t understand us AND NOW….we need to work on County Supervisors & the Planning Commission. Pay very close attention here folks, You may be the next one that doesn’t understand them!

  31. TimH
    March 1, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Regardless of how mean or whatever, the comparison does not even make sense. To say the NCHB took a play from Gaddafi is a bit loony, especially when the quote is read in context.

  32. Oldphart
    March 1, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    So the point is if you don’t agree with me you are evil. Nice start to a conversation. Idiots.

  33. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    “just not AS genocidal?” How about “not genocidal “AT ALL.”

    Ok tra, must everything be so literal? No room for snarkyness on this blog!

  34. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 12:37 pm

    Doesn’t stop HELP and their developer buddies from making shit up to foment irrational fears.

  35. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Notice we are not talking about the CPU. “They” don’t want to talk about the fact that the developers may not have the same “approach and beliefs” regarding how to build livable communities. So they resort to a bunch of victim talk. “Heraldo is mean”. Any time I hear a bunch of victim talk, I know the person I am conversing with has nothing to argue in terms of logic, only “I’m a victim (of Keut Girard, the Planning Commission, the Coastal Commission, heraldo, hell, everyone”. Whine, whine, whine.

  36. longwind
    March 1, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Sam, you are a victim of bad writing, AWOL logic, and ignorant projection. Not that there’s anything wrong with that.

    tra isn’t whining, he’s engaging with your schoolyard bullying as if he respects you. Maybe he should whine more?

  37. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 1:01 pm

    Sorry Longwinded, he’s not a victim of me either. (Jeez, what a bunch of sniveling victims!!)

  38. Disgusted
    March 1, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    The comparison reminds me of the outrageous and inflammatory cartoons of the last Gilded Age!

    Go Heraldo!

    These are, in fact, petty dictators and their minions. Their unquestioned acquisition of the public’s infrastructure, and “mysterious” ability to build far beyond it; subdivisions unaffordable to 75% of the public that subsidized it; are all wholly censored stories meriting editorial outrage for the methodical dismantlement of a fundamental pillar of civilization, (affordable shelter). If you thought “more” 2k-4k s/f homes drives prices down…move to L.A.

    No mainstream media recognition, no outrage, no empathy.

    How the development community accomplished this and the massive human fallout it caused, has yet to be reported or connected, it interferes with media’s new role in the tyranny of keeping a harmonious, positive-outlook.

    In fact, the image of the dictator is apt considering the development community’s influence, political control, media access, and private print-megaphones effective at maintaining focus on “outside forces” while their undeniable role in the housing ponzi-scheme and world-wide economic melt-down are already ancient history and mostly censored.

    Millions are still being launched into bankruptcies, foreclosures and poverty and the broader devastation and suffering associated with that: violence, suicides, divorces, disease, foster homes, child abuse, spousal abuse, elder abuse, drug abuse, homelessness, crime…on and on and on…

    We can argue all you want about foreign dictator’s “brutal intent” vs. domestic dictator’s “right to expand fortunes at severe human cost”.

    However, to me, victims are victims, and the more the perpetrators escape accountability to continue their plunder, the more the disenfranchised and ignored victims will paint outrageous cartoons and comparisons to illustrate the frustration.

    Sure, it would be nice to have reforms despite censorship and without hyperbole, negativity, and violence, but there’s little historical precedence in our plutocracy.

  39. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    HiFi says

    “Isn’t more housing, cheaper housing a good thing for the people ??”

    With the developers’/real estate interests’ preferred alternative (D) we’d get more housing indeed. Build anywhere — ag land timberland, who cares!

    But the idea that it would be cheaper housing is ludicrous. All you have to do is look at what’s being built under the current land use regulations, which are like D. Cheap it’s not.

    What possible incentive is there for building cheaper, unsubsidized housing? That’s not where the profit is!!

    Lest someone bring up the supply-and-demand bogey, the developers aren’t building for locals, unless the local is a speculator/investor. As long as our housing is significantly cheaper than that in urban area (e.g. Bay Area, LA area) it will be a magnet for purchasers from the outside — folks see it as a bargain, a great investment. And local prices will stay high.

    (If purchasers of local houses 1) had to live in the house — primary residence, and 2) could only buy one house — can’t buy as investments & rent out, we’d see local house prices drop dramatically.)

  40. Not A Native
    March 1, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    I dunno, sometimes when I hear the local promoters who threaten without their vision “this place will become a ghost town” and bluster for projects that I believe will ultimately create more disparity of circumstances here, it sounds not that much different from Gaddafi’s recent speeches that the Libyan nation can’t exist without him in charge.

    I take this thread as pointing out that the threatening speech NCHB reflects the same attitude of entitlement as that of Gaddafi. Has nothing to do with Gaddafi’s decisions to make war on Libya. Just like putting horns and tail on an image of Arkley isn’t saying Arkley IS the devil.

    Saying, as TRA attempts here, that this thread equates every quality of Gaddafi with NCHB is an unreasonable extrapolation. If H. had intended that, he’d have added images of the massacres in making the comparison.

  41. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Has nothing to do with Gaddafi’s decisions to make war on Libya

    Right, so if I slap a photo of Mark Lovelace up next to Adolph Hitler and say I’m just drawing a comparison to their economic policies, I’m sure you won’t raise an issue about any of Hitler’s other deeds.

  42. Sam Spade
    March 1, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Still more whining …

  43. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Of course the developers dominate the meetings of the PLANNING commission. Duh. Who else would dominate?

  44. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Wouldn’t it be better if we started building our communities as if the future mattered?

    Rather than: I want to build whatever I want, whenever however.

    My vote goes for fish, farmers and future generations!

  45. a loony moose
    March 1, 2011 at 1:53 pm

    I think the Hitler/Lovelace photo slap would be hilarious.

  46. a loony moose
    March 1, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    It seems the reason so many folks are peeved here, is ’cause H hit on a sore spot.

  47. Not A Native
    March 1, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    Hey anon, the pic of Gaddafi is of his recent speaking, not killing. The thread points out that NHCB has some similarities to Gaddafi, NOT that NHCB IS Gaddafi. The point is to cast NHCB is a negative light by analogy, not by equating.

    You know, Gaddafi is also a peacemaker who wisely abandoned nuclear weapons. Would you therefore suggest the thread’s intent is to imply NHCB would similarily willingly refrain from threatening mass destruction?

  48. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    What I find particularly striking is the power of Graphic Images (pictures) to incite passions in the breasts of blog readers and commenters who would normally be considered men and women oriented to the power of Words.

    The power of Pictures AND Music is an even more powerful combination, Heraldo. Why don’t you post a link to “Zenga Zenga” – a remix of Ghadaffi’s recent speech? It is, within the Arab world, a wildly popular parody of Ghadaffi – even though the remix was made by an Israeli citizen working from his small apartment in Israel.

    Hey, Wait! Have I gone off-topic?

  49. Eureka Resident
    March 1, 2011 at 2:12 pm

    My favorite quote from 1:06:

    “Brutal intent” vs. “right to expand fortunes at severe (economic) and human cost”…victims are victims”

    “Where’s the media”??

    March 1, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    There are those who navigate; and, there are those who get navigated. If ya wanna stick on the side-lines, ain’t much doin’ goin’ on.


    The sad part about homes/development – those who have never owned a home or developed one or many can never understand the problems going on – not really fully anyways. Those who have never built a home or gone through the manipulated processes that always raises the costs (ALWAYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) on homes WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND……

    So, point being to the clueless whiners, get a fricken brain, dummies. Not all people are trying to economically or socially rape you. There, now were back to old times on the blogs! What was that again about comparisons?


  51. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 3:22 pm

    Sadly I’m not all that surprised that some of you folks apparently can’t see how smearing Williams by placing her photo next to Gaddafi is offensive.

    But it is a bit sruprising that Heraldo, at least thus far, has chosen to let his poor judgement stand, and in fact not even bothered to defend his reasoning. If he stands pat with this nasty position, I do think we’re well into Mirror territory.

    Hopefully he’s just busy and hasn’t checked in on the thread yet, and will eventually edit the post to focus on the issue he’s raising, rather than focusing on trying to demonize his opponents (which, ironically, is exactly what he’s complaining about Williams doing, with her reference to “outside forces”).

    I can’t help wondering whether all of you are just fine with Rose comparing the Herald to the KKK because both used anonymity? Or is it only reprehensible if it’s “your side” that is subjected a the disgusting comparison in an attempt to demonize?

  52. humboldturtle
    March 1, 2011 at 3:25 pm

    1. This is an incomplete comparison. Julie needs camo.
    2. Those who fail to plan, plan to fail. Ohhhh…

  53. humboldturtle
    March 1, 2011 at 3:26 pm

    btw, what’s wrong with poor people, anyway??

  54. March 1, 2011 at 4:28 pm

    tra, it only has power if you give it power.

    Otherwise, I think the analogy of this little secret society to the KKK is pretty apt. In another time and place, do you really think they’d pull back from burning crosses in the front yard? I don’t. Humboldt’s blogosphere is a perfect example of why mankind will never be free of war. Or things like the KKK, afraid to show their faces.

    And going after Julie this way is a case in point.

    She has a right to voice her opinion, there is more than one side, and if you have a contrasting opinion and valid points, be man enough to say them under your own name.

    As for orchestration, nothing compares to the lineup assembled by Lovelace and crew during the TPZ debacle, each one with a paragraph or two to fill the three minute allowance, all carefully constructed, and going for the jugular.

    In FACT, it was that little charade that brought about the pushback that has heraldo so frustrated.

  55. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    And going after Julie this way is a case in point.

    Then you “going after” Heraldo with the ridiculous KKK comparison is just as much a case in point. In both cases it’s a smear and an attempt to demonize.

    Congrats to both of you, you must be so proud of yourselves for living up to (down to?) the standards set by the other.

    Perhaps you both should just merge with the Mirror and be done with it.

  56. March 1, 2011 at 5:52 pm

    I’m not the one wearing the mask. (or hood, as it were). They are.

  57. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 6:24 pm

    Rose, I give you credit for using your real name, especially because the opinions you express are often so controversial. So, kudos for that.

    However, that doesn’t change the fact that your KKK-smear of Heraldo is just as illogical and despicable as his Gaddafi-smear of Williams.

    So you two seem to have at least one thing in common, and usually I applaud people reaching common ground. It’s just too bad that your common ground turned out to be a toxic swamp.

  58. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 6:28 pm

    TRA. actually reasonable and principled enough to call heraldo on some bullshit.

    hat’s off to ya, although i disagree with most of what you say here.

  59. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 6:35 pm

    Thanks 6:28. I hust calls ’em as I sees ’em.

  60. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    Oops, make that “just,” not “hust.”

  61. Bill Barnum
    March 1, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    The post is rather silly. Julie is a sweet woman, a friend to many people and an honest spokesperson. The dictator on the other hand ordered the terrorist bombing of the Pan Am flight over Lockerbie, Scotland. Sorry, but the analogy is hopeless. It would be libelous if anyone took it seriously, but Heraldo is a master at hyperbole, and this is simply another rendering of that art form.

    What is really at work here? I have come to see this as a debate between those who wish we were fewer and those wish we were more. The advocates on both sides see compromise as a non-starter, so we get blog snapshots of murderous dictators standing alongside people Heraldo disagrees with. Sheesh.

    I have been trying to bring a little sanity to the conversation of late. Last month I explained to the Planning Commission that the County’s permit data shows we have only permitted an average of 37 multi-family units a year in the unincorporated areas since 1980. Some think that is too many. I think most people would consider it not enough. Last year we permitted a single duplex. That won’t cut it. We will not enjoy “affordable housing” with apartments coming on at the rate of 37 per year. It simply won’t happen.

    The data also show that Eureka is, far from sprawling, shrinking. Here you go:

    EUREKA POPULATION: 1960: 28,157
    1995: 28,606
    2000: 26,128
    2006: 25,435 (-2.6% OR 693 PERSONS OR ABOUT 277 HOUSEHOLDS)

    Although Humboldt County was a remote and rural part of the state, by 1900 Eureka had become one of California’s larger population centers. Of the 116 incorporated towns and cities, Eureka, with a population of 7,327, ranked a remarkable
    fourteenth—larger than Santa Rosa, Santa Barbara, San Bernardino, Santa Cruz, andPomona (Encyclopedia Britannica 1910:(5)15).

    This historic note is to explain that we have an aging housing base, and are not keeping it current or green.

    The County fairs little better (or worse, see above)as the population reports show:

    1960: 104,892
    1970: 99,692
    1980: 108,514
    1990: 119,118
    2000: 126,518
    2009: 129,623

    As with the City of Eureka, another problem is that the entire County has a significant, yet aging, housing stock, and so the rate of new construction is literally a drop in the bucket, not changing the affordability by increasing the supply:

    2009: 59,457

    And the ratio of home ownership to apartments is an issue too:

    2000: 57.6%
    2000: 18.1% (STATE: 31.4%)

    We apparently have too few apartments to make the available supply more affordable. But at the same time, we have a dearth of supply of buildable sites for multi-family.

    As for the aging housing stock, take note of this:

    • 1999 to March 2000: 644
    • 1995 to 1998: 2,890
    • 1990 to 1994: 4,511
    • 1980 to 1989: 6,687
    • 1970 to 1979: 9,622
    • 1960 to 1969: 8,006
    • 1950 to 1959: 9,244
    • 1940 to 1949: 5,239
    • 1939 or earlier: 9,069
    1960 THROUGH 1979: 17,268 = 863 PER YEAR
    1980 TO 2000: 14,732 = 701 PER YEAR
    Read more: http://www.city-data.com/county/Humboldt_County-CA.html#ixzz1FOraPPwU

    And the rate of new housing construction in the City of Eureka is laughably low:

    Single-family new house construction building permits in Eureka:
    • 1996: 14 buildings, average cost: $97,700
    • 1997: 16 buildings, average cost: $87,200
    • 1998: 23 buildings, average cost: $97,800
    • 1999: 18 buildings, average cost: $114,600
    • 2000: 15 buildings, average cost: $111,100
    • 2001: 17 buildings, average cost: $133,800
    • 2002: 19 buildings, average cost: $112,800
    • 2003: 15 buildings, average cost: $147,600
    • 2004: 15 buildings, average cost: $150,600
    • 2005: 19 buildings, average cost: $168,000
    • 2006: 18 buildings, average cost: $168,000
    • 2007: 14 buildings, average cost: $156,700
    • 2008: 4 buildings, average cost: $187,000
    • 2009: 5 buildings, average cost: $156,200
    Read more: http://www.city-data.com/city/Eureka-California.html#ixzz1FOzDfdRB

    We have lost manufacturing jobs from a high of 6,100 in 1990 to a present level of about 2,000. Government employment in the county has grown from 10,000 to 13,900 in the same period.

    So: in sum, Heraldo is a bully who picks on people, libels them, and shrinks from the real debate.

    Honest people have an honest difference of opinion and point of view. Even with Dr. Seuss. But the facts are here. There is no sprawl. There is damn near no building activity at all. Some will applaud that fact. I believe most people will not.

  62. March 1, 2011 at 6:58 pm

    Rose’s nutty, hypocritical obsession with anonymity only applies to Heraldo. The Ghaddafi picture is stupid, offensive and hyperbolic, but Rose has no problem with the Mirror doing much worse things, because they’re not the KKK, they’re “friends.”

  63. humboldturtle
    March 1, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    So Bill, let’s PLAN!

  64. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    There is no sprawl.

    That’s going a bit far. There certainly has been suburban sprawl-type development in Humboldt over the past few decades. Look at Cutten, Ridgewood, the outskirts of McKinleyville and Fortuna, look at the fancy new homes near the golf course in Bayside, and then try to explain again how your statistics show that “there is no sprawl.” It’s a little bit like the old joke “who are you gonna believe, me (and my statistics) or your own lyin’ eyes?”

    The thing is, statistics showing the population of Eureka shrinking, while the population of the county as a whole has grown, are completely consistent with the concept of sprawl — fewer people living in the city, more in the suburbs and other unincorporated parts of the county. Just how much of that shift is towards suburban sprawl, as opposed to, say, rural residences, would require another kind of breakdown. But given all the on-the-ground examples of areas of suburban sprawl that I’ve listed above, I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that the suburban sprawl homes account for a good deal of the shift in where people live within the county.

  65. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Bill Barnum,

    If you think Heraldo has libeled somebody why don’t you come to the aid of the aggrieved party(s) and sue on their behalf? You are an attorney. Oh, that’s right you know bupkis about First Amendment law, which you have clearly demonstrated in Humboldt County Superior Court.

    March 1, 2011 at 7:46 pm


    You know it is not fair to bring factual statistics to a silly discussion, shucks. Anyhow, way to “buck-up” at the P.C. meeting.

    An effect of the lack of trust with the CDSD by plenty in the community is that less people are willing to do business when being bullied and hosed in the past – So, development is left to the big boys IF the project “pans out”. The small guy (lots of small guys) effectually gets squeezed all-too-often. So, money just is not flowing partly due to that “lack-of-trust due to prior abuses”. It is hard to count how many applicants who had paperwork staing, implying, expressing, etc… that all was done and mitigated….just to get going and have some department change-up the conditions or seek more improvemens, claiming some manipulative reasoning of course. These willfully malicious conducts really deteriorate any business environment; and, to think “local community members who are supposed to care more than Wasshington D.C.er’s” doing department duties would act just the same, pffft.


  67. humboldturtle
    March 1, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Don’t bring a frown to old Bar-num
    Ah, you gotta smile at Barr-nummm
    Your troubles there, they’re out of style
    ‘Cause Billy always wears a smile.
    A million lights, they flicker there
    A million hearts beat quicker there
    No skies are gray on that great white way,
    That’s the Barnummm Melody!

    Gotta plan!
    Gotta plan!
    Gotta plannnn!

    So which is it, slow down and hope for a better board? Or move ahead with the GPU?

    March 1, 2011 at 7:51 pm

    Sprawl – Eureka still has not expanded its city limits either. So, the emigration out of Eureka is just a statistic that is implying people don’t like living within the city limits of Eureka. Some say Eureka has been turning into a dirty town; and, in more and more sections of the city, those people are accurate in assessing that dirt.


  69. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 8:01 pm

    So, Heraldo,

    No edit, and no mea culpa?

    I guess either you really can’t see what’s wrong with slapping the picture of a murderous dictator up next to someone whose oly “crime” is to disagree with you on the GPU (sad), or else you have by now realized how offensive and mean-spirited it is, but you jusy can’t bring yourself to admit it (pathetic). Either way, I think that shows a pretty serious lapse in judgement on your part.

    But it’s your blog, and if you want to veer off into the gutter, that’s your prerogative. Oh well, I guess the whole Gaddafi-smeary thing doesn’t look so bad, as long as you view it through “Rose”-colored glasses.

  70. tra
    March 1, 2011 at 8:08 pm


    Placing Williams’s photo alongside a photo of Gaddafi amounts to sleazy smear, the kind all too common in political attack ads, but I’m not sure it fits the definintion of “libel.”

  71. Steak n Eggs
    March 1, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    The post is pretty lame. Kinda like the Mirror. But for many of us in the middle, its what we have come to expect from both sides. Personally, I have come to tolerate it since it comes with some informative and timely local political news that I cannot get without going to the BOS and PC meetings.

    I have often wondered whether this blog would be as popular if it relied solely on journalism and less on opinion. IMO, H should just give us the facts and let the posters provide the opinion.

  72. March 1, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    I like the Steak n Eggs idea. Just presenting the facts should be sufficiently opinionated. I’m sure that most of us don’t appreciate being beaten over the head, even (perhaps especially) with viewpoints that we are already sympathetic with.

    And perhaps we’d all be better off without Photoshop.

  73. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    SMART METERS! What about that scam Heraldo?

  74. March 1, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Bill Barnum: Great post. Using facts to back your observations. Heraldo followers hate it when this happens.

    Comparing Julie to Maummar? Sad. But this is Heraldo’s Humboldt Hate blog. He or her followers suffer great denial. Just remember this readers, they are the minority.

  75. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 9:00 pm

    At first glance I thought it was two homeless people at the board of supervisors wanting more space for camping in the marsh.

  76. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    They look like a couple that have been homeless to long and should get a shower at Betty Chinns.

  77. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    tra – are you saying all the growth should occur in the cities then or what? this is the fundamental argument. healthy humboldt wants growth in the cities (although the cities are saying they don’t have the capacity) and the NCHB crowd wants to be able to build outside of the cities.

    it seems that the building of 1 duplex in a year and the lack of affordable housing must be related. it would be interesting to see the affordability rates and the building permits issued on a graph.

  78. Plain Jane
    March 1, 2011 at 9:19 pm

    Maybe Heraldo is making a point about being compared to the KKK? Is that still up?

    Richard sounds more and more like a Fox News Republican.

  79. Plain Jane
    March 1, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    Does anyone know how many building permits were requested but not granted in the city of Eureka and county?

    It makes sense that at the peak of a housing bubble with wages stagnate for years, high personal debt and unemployment that there would be fewer houses built than during the years when the end of a war and then again with baby boomers reaching “nesting” age created an increased demand. Additionally, fewer people can afford to buy a home due to the lack of decent employment around here.

  80. Plain Jane
    March 1, 2011 at 9:51 pm

    Eureka stats

    Estimated median household income in 2009: $29,851 (it was $25,849 in 2000)

    State median income $58,931

    Estimated median house or condo value in 2009: $271,462 )
    Eureka: $271,462 (it was $113,600 in 2000)
    California: $384,200

    Local wages only increased by about $4000 in 9 years while housing prices doubled. Homes here cost about 2/3 what they do on average statewide with half the wages. So who is buying houses?

  81. Anonymous
    March 1, 2011 at 9:57 pm

    Housing elements are all a scam. City and supervisors have always rolled over for the grant $. Good to see Emad asking the question, why are we doing this and is this good for the county in the long run. I wish the city had someone like commissioner Emad and maybe the city wouldn’t be such a welfare destination.

  82. Not A Native
    March 1, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    So Julie is a sweet woman, according to Barnum. Does that means she’s incapable of taking a job to disseminate misinformation and advance a political agenda? You know, Ma Barker was called a good person, by those who liked her. And Gadhafi has thousands on his payroll would will swear he’s a savior. Bottom line, the ‘good person’ label is meaningless self serving BS, and a subterfuge to deflect embarassing questions.

    Its funny that Barnum’s own facts belie his statements. The population of Eureka has declined while the county population has increased. so that means many more people are living in the county but outside Eureka. How many? Well using Barnum’s figures, from 1995 to 2009, about 9200 more people. That population didn’t add to Fortuna, Blue Lake, Arcata, and Rio Dell. They’re sprawled out over what were previously timber, farm, and ranch lands.

  83. Not A Native
    March 1, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    Give it up tra. You’re flat out wrong on the comparison point, most here agrees on that. A blog, like the ‘Arab street’ operates by acclaim and in this one your position has lost out. You’re free to continue ranting and baiting in isolation as a majority of one, but you’re just marginalizing yourself further and reducing your cedibility for future threads.

  84. Not A Native
    March 1, 2011 at 10:28 pm

    People are moving up to bigger houses and renting out their old house. Whos’s paying for those expensive houses, you ask? Ultimately its the renting occupants of those older houses who pay off the low rate Bernanke loans of those that start off a little bit ahead of others and gradually move way ahead.

    And remember, rental rates increase faster than mortgage payments and property taxes. Maintenance costs are flat, because older homes are allowed to slowly decline while the landlords allow general inflation to preserve their nominal prices. Of course, damaging indoor grows foil the business plan of rental houses as sure cash cows.

  85. Plain Jane
    March 1, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    So what will this area look like if current trends continue and the developers get to build all the houses they want? Where are the jobs to support them? It looks like the future for a lot of locals will be minimum wage service jobs and no hope of ever owning a home. But that’s great news for the landlords who don’t mind profiting from rent subsidies and business owners whose wages make food stamps, medicaid and rent subsidies necessary. It’s a win / win for those who matter.

  86. McKinleyvillan
    March 1, 2011 at 11:40 pm

    tra, good point: “The thing is, statistics showing the population of Eureka shrinking, while the population of the county as a whole has grown, are completely consistent with the concept of sprawl — fewer people living in the city, more in the suburbs and other unincorporated parts of the county.”

    TimH, what’s your point, that rural counties don’t have affordable housing shortages? Don’t know where you live Tim, but in my neighborhood there are people living in travel trailers on the streets. Probably not their first choice of a place to call home.

  87. skippy
    March 2, 2011 at 12:02 am

    skippy’s with Tra on this one. Gaddafi was a bad choice. Mr. Barnum, thank you for your outstanding information and posting here. Rose, can’t see eye-to-eye about your KKK equivalent based on the hateful symbol and flimsy reasoning.

    Moving on, the Eureka City Council heard citizens voicing complaints tonight the County Planning Department ignores their concerns regarding the General Plan Update. The County Planning Department’s Martha Spencer gave comments disagreeing; The Home Builders Association and many other citizens countered.

    The Council voted 4-1 (Councilmember Atkins dissenting) to authorize Mayor Jager signing a letter to the County Board of Supervisors expressing the City’s concern about the General Plan Update– and requesting the GPU be placed on hold allowing formation of Citizen’s Advisory Committees making the process more inclusive.

    Councilmember Atkins was reasonable and smart in her dissenting response: the City has little jurisdiction in this County matter– and additional GPU monies shouldn’t be wasted further by interfering. Madsen, however, was clearly in the popular majority along with other council members, hitting a home run in both his proposal and overall citizens agreement. Mr. Newman noted this was an opportune time for such a proposal given the new members on the County Board, the Planning Commission, and coupled with tonight’s comments that the process should be more inclusive. Ms. Brady and Ciarabellini agreed.

  88. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 12:49 am

    Almost every single person who spoke in favor of making the process more “inclusive” have been present at most of the GPU hearings and have provided a considerable amount of public comment. Almost every one of these folks was there representing HELP/HumCPR/HAR/NCHB. All of these groups have stated their desire that the General Plan NOT be updated.

  89. Carol
    March 2, 2011 at 6:59 am

    I find it interesting how Bill and Richard M. rush to Julie’s defense. I know Julie and she is a paid lobbyist and is a Republican with a big “R”.
    Then anonymous has rushed to Barb Leonard’s defense.

    No one has rushed to my defense. And on other blogs I have had lies written about me and my family members.

    Eureka is a bubble where 60% of the voters have Stolkholm’s Syndrome. They just don’t get it.

  90. E. Percival Ne'er-do-well Esquire III
    March 2, 2011 at 7:08 am

    What I get from this picture is a comparison of two forms of delusion. One is a deluded murdering dictactor who thinks his people love him and one is a deluded paid political hack who represents people that think private property rights should trump any kind of planning. This is political satire, if you disagree tra feel free to let everybody know, over and over and over. And if that’s not enough ask for an apology and a retraction. I think we used to call your spiel on this thread “having a cow”. WTF, did you gulp some of JL’s coolaid? Keep up the great work H.

  91. March 2, 2011 at 8:29 am

    Sorry Carol, but these partisan clowns only point out faults in those they oppose politically and only cry foul when someone they agree with is the injured party.

  92. Steak n Eggs
    March 2, 2011 at 8:40 am

    Slowing down the GPU to form a Citizen’s Advisory Committees this late in the game is laughable. The suggestion that the process has lacked public participation is crazy. Given the present make-up of the BOS, you would think that stakeholders like Homebuilders would want this thing completed and voted on ASAP.

  93. March 2, 2011 at 9:06 am

    “This is political satire…”

    It’s more like an attempt at political satire. It falls flat as humor. It also hammers us with a heavy-handed political point assuming that some Herald readers are too dense to understand the facts. An assumption that readers are intelligent would make for better posts. It might even encourage smarter comments.

  94. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 9:21 am

    But Carol, you rush to Salzman’s defense. What word does that make you, with a capital letter? Phony?

  95. skippy
    March 2, 2011 at 9:24 am

    Anonymous @ 12:49, you are correct. HELP and HumCPR were attending. So was Healthy Humboldt. NCHB was previously noted. Thank you for this complementary observation and oversight addition. Duly noted.

    The reason representatives of special interest groups weren’t specified is they didn’t always identify affiliation speaking as private individuals. Try as he might, skippy isn’t yet psychic knowing the players. He’s working on that and learning his chops. To note, the Times-Standard wasn’t inclusive of this observation, either.

    What was suspiciously noticeable was Councilmember Newman’s unusual coalition and affable closeness with HumCPR outside of camera view.

    Stalwart reporter Allison White penned more in today’s article, “Eureka to Recommend Citizen’s Committees for County’s General Plan” that can be found here.

  96. March 2, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Joel – you equate commenting on a blog with agreement. In fact there are many things, and many comments and many tangents that come up in a blog thread that one ignores, oftentimes. This was true back in the Buhne/Anon.R.mous heyday before the Herald and it is true today.

    I’m sure we all have things we don’t like on just about any blog in town at one time or another. Sometimes we say something and sometimes we don’t. If you were paying attention you would know that I have defended those I disagree with on occasion. Even today.

  97. TimH
    March 2, 2011 at 9:36 am

    TimH, what’s your point, that rural counties don’t have affordable housing shortages? Don’t know where you live Tim, but in my neighborhood there are people living in travel trailers on the streets. Probably not their first choice of a place to call home.

    You are going to have to help me out. I don’t understand what you are referencing. I copied and pasted a section of the NCHB newsletter.

    This part is mine:
    The “BRING BACK COMMON SENSE” line is the best to me. Somewhere in the current plan there is a section that talks about common sense. From my understanding, that section will be gone. They have literally removed common sense from the plan. That’s funny to me.

  98. March 2, 2011 at 10:01 am

    “the Buhne/Anon.R.mous heyday”?

    Ugh. Rose is so pathetic.

  99. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:01 am

    So you wrote that for the NCHB Tim?

  100. tra
    March 2, 2011 at 10:42 am

    Given the present make-up of the BOS, you would think that stakeholders like Homebuilders would want this thing completed and voted on ASAP.

    Well nobody seems to be sure exactly what kind of final plan could actually win the necessary majority of at least three votes on the Board of Supes.

    The assumption seems to be that Lovelace and Clendenan and most of their supporters could probably agree on a plan that leans toward Option A, and that Sundberg and Bass and most of their supporters could probably agree to support something in the range of Option C. So a lot of the speculation I’ve heard is about which group is going to get Jimmy Smith’s vote, and how much they would need to compromise to obtain it.

    If the one or the other of those two factions is too unwilling to compromise a little to try to gain the third vote, they’ll lose out to the other side. I’m not sure if this is really the way it’s all shaking out, but if it is, I actually think that’s potentially a somewhat healthy dynamic.

    Another possibility, I think, might be a “coalition of the middle” with Clendenan, Smith, and Sundberg passing a final version of the plan that neither Lovelace nor Bass wants to support (for very different reasons, of course). One reason that this might come to pass is that, at least to me, Lovelace and Bass seem like they might have ambitions to higher office, and they may not want to compromise on the positions of their respective hard-core bases.

    By leaving the heavy lifting to Clendenan, Smith, and Sundberg, the other two could avoid having to cast a “yes” vote on a GPU which, no matter what the final details, will probably be disliked by many Humboldt (for different reasons, of course), and will of course be viewed by many as the product of an overly-lengthy, overly-expensive, and in some respects a deeply flawed process. Again, many on both sides share that opinion of the GPU process, though they may point to different deficiencies and blame different people.

    At any rate, I see two paths to a possible vote before the next Supes election: Either one side or the other agrees to compromise a bit more than the other side, and is therefore able to pick up Smith’s vote, OR Clendenan, Smith, and Sundberg can agree on a plan and pass it with or (perhaps more likely) without Lovelace and Bass.

    If it looks like no-one will be able to reach a majority, then they won’t scedule a vote at all, they’ll end up kicking the can down the road for a couple more years, and it will be all about what happens in the next Supes elections.

    If Smith runs again, and wins as expected, then the Option A folks face a situation where their position might get weaker (if, for example Clendenan is replaced by someone less friendly to the Lovelace position) but it can’t really get stronger, because neither Bass nor Sundberg is up for re-election that time around.

  101. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 11:15 am

    I’m offended that this cabal of so called developers is trying to devalue my property and dismantle our economy through lack of planning.

  102. TimH
    March 2, 2011 at 11:24 am

    So you wrote that for the NCHB Tim?

    No, I copied and pasted it from the newsletter. The last paragraph, where I noted “THIS PART IS MINE” in my previous comment at 9:36; I wrote that on this blog. It was not part of the newsletter, it was me pointing out something I found humor in. Klar?

  103. tra
    March 2, 2011 at 11:42 am

    With regard to folks favoring delay on a final vote on the GPU, I think both sides really have more or less the same position: Delay until our side has a clear majority for everything we want, then move ahead to a vote.

    The difference, of course, is that those who support something more along the lines of Option C tend to be O.K. with the status quo (Option D, no change in the GP) and therefore they don’t have as much of a sense of urgency about getting it done anytime soon.

    The Option A supporters are in a tougher strategic position, given that they don’t like the status quo, but they also don’t appear to have to the votes to pass something that is strongly in the direction of Option A.

    So they either have to compromise on a plan that they’ll then have to live with for the next couple of decades, or hold out for something better after the elections 2 or 4 years from now, but for the Option A supporters, that means that the status quo (which they find unacceptable) will continue in the meantime, and there’s certainly no guarantee that their position will improve after the next election. In fact given who’s up for re-election in 2012 (Lovelace, Clendenan and Smith) and who’s not (Sundberg and Bass) there is a very real risk that the Option A faction could actually lose support on the Board of Supes after the 2012 election.

  104. Plain Jane
    March 2, 2011 at 11:48 am

    “Common sense” is such a subjective phrase. Everyone thinks they have it but, sadly, that just isn’t true.

  105. TimH
    March 2, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    From the current plan:

    1441 Common Sense

    The principal rule to be followed is one of common sense. Taking a comprehensive view of all relevant plan policies, the result must further the intent of these policies, in a practical, workable, and sound manner. Unusual, awkward, and strained solutions are not intended by the plan and should be avoided. However, new concepts of development which serve community and individual needs should be supported in implementing the General Plan. The General Plan should be interpreted in a commonsense manner to encourage reasonable development which can meet these needs with minimal impacts on the environment and demands on public services.

    Hopefully there is some language like this in the update.

  106. Plain Jane
    March 2, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Sounds like a section that would allow a lot of discretion on the part of those whose “common sense” could be swayed by the right person or dollar amount.

  107. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    To the contrary Jane, it prevents strained interpretations of the General Plan, leaving a wider opening for a judge to shoot down an attempted manipulation of the plan. If you’re worried about developers, you should embrace this idea.

  108. Steak n Eggs
    March 2, 2011 at 1:31 pm

    Tra…Interesting assessment, you are probably correct. Perhaps the Option C/D crowd believe that time is indeed on their side. It will be interesting to learn who runs in 2012.

  109. Disgusted
    March 2, 2011 at 1:55 pm

    It’s quaint that a few posters think we can return to some of the worst aspects of the Gilded Age…but not the outrageous satire!?

    Affordable housing is a pillar of civilization. Utilizing public-subsidized infrastructure to undermine it is criminal with immense human cost in more poverty and crime, and apparently, huge global impacts.

    Look no further than B. Barnum’s own neighborhood to understand this liar.

    From the air, you see thousands of structures utilizing one rural road and its mass of Lanes, Ways, Circles, Places, Drives, and cul-de-sacs…a hallmark of sprawl. Four recent subdivisions of big homes worth tens of millions of dollars, (near Excelsior St.), all utilize Fern Drive to enter Eureka but the ONLY improvement to Fern Drive is a tiny placard warning pedestrians and cyclists NOT TO USE FERN DRIVE!! Hundreds more residents living a few blocks from Eureka’s only real park (Sequoia) are forced to drive 2 miles for access because of ZERO planning.

    Of course, the Barnum’s and their army of “Julie Williams” are drooling for the first opportunity to plop MORE biggered homes on Granddaddy’s timber land. After all, the Barnum’s and their neighbors, Kluke and Bareilles, have always enjoyed unquestioned access to the public’s infrastructure, making the thought of “giving up” ANY of their land for the Martin Slough Sewer Interceptor an “outrage” that the Barnum’s are currently fighting.

    To be fair, they are not the first to want their cake and eat it too…Yet, they want us to believe that NONE of the 74% of county residents demanding affordable housing have actually been subsidizing the development community’s unbridled greed.

    Their “principally permitted right” to build two bubbles since the 1980’s has cost taxpayers trillions, and their control of local politics, bum-rush at every public hearing, their phony front-groups, and private media megaphone, promises to begin anew…

    They will do so, unless our community media and elected representatives do their job.

  110. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    I think Disgusted is onto something.

    Unfortunately for him/her, when it comes time to vote or take a position on the general plan, almost all homeowners ask: What policy will increase the price of MY house(s)the most? And that directly conflicts with a policy to make housing less expensive.

  111. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 3:14 pm

    H, you’re now accusing the GOP of killing people in the streets of the US.

    By placing Republicans in the tank with Ghadaffi, you’re calling them murderers. Common sense says thats what you’ve done.

  112. Ben
    March 2, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    There are market forces that determine price, just because you think your house is worth a certain amount does not make it so unless someone is willing to pay that price. So I don’t understand what Disgusted feels should be the option from the “principally permitted right” to build. Should you plead with someone for the permit to build on your lot? Who should make that decision, the Housing Central Committee?

  113. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    Get off it Ben, those “market forces” aren’t decreed from on high, they’re very much determined by policies, regulations, and laws of a political, not economic process(though some her claim there’s little difference). Do you think the Homestead and Mining Acts don’t still affect “market forces” in HumCo? If you do, consult with Bob McKee.

  114. Disgusted
    March 2, 2011 at 3:47 pm

    Clearly, a reasonable percentage of home affordability should be reestablished. Like reasonable Tariffs that return high-skilled jobs, reasonable tax codes that end foreign shelters, reasonable labor laws that disallow All child labor, or that pay enough to have indoor plumbing, reasonable access to free public universities, reasonable planning that does not build beyond infrastructure capacity or that makes streets unsafe to walk or bike.

    Most people have no idea what they’ve lost after a generation of pigs have been calling the shots.

  115. anon
    March 2, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    Ben’s still mad he can’t dump his motor oil on his “popperty” can’t use his burn barrel, shoot his gun, or cut his trees near the stream.

    You guys cried rivers for “the other endangered species”, (timber jobs). All-the-while, the Bigs were making home affordability nearly extinct, building homes you can’t afford, taking YOUR infrastructure beyond capacity, while saturating Eureka with poverty-wage big boxes.

    Ahh, the free-market…the wealth travels freely upward, while the costs are paid by “the others”.

  116. Bill HiFi Barnum
    March 2, 2011 at 4:10 pm

    Using a murderous dictator to compare a lobbyist to the development community is offensive.

    It would have been more accurate to use one of those posters displayed downtown the other day depicting an aborted fetus.

    With a 25% affordability rate, and the rent-inflation it causes, poverty skyrockets, along with unwanted conception, and teen pregnancy….among the other plethora of social ills, suicides and violence.

    Ignoring human suffering to continue seizing public wealth and infrastructure for private profit only happens under murderous dictatorships.

    Or, call me a liar!

  117. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 4:20 pm

    So Ben, then I take it you’d be in favor of rent control to constrain rent-inflation?

    And you’d also favor publically created housing that results in housing security AND price stability to those persons who simply want a place to reside, not build their personal wealth by collecting rents or speculating on land appreciation?

  118. March 2, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    What’re they supposed to do with “Granddaddy’s timber land” – you’ve made it impossible for it to be used as timber land – the mills are gone, closed, kaput – and you spend a lot of time attacking them for the tax clause that prevents them from having to pay when they have not logged it or received any income from logging it (letting the trees GROW as it were, rather than having to cut them to pay the “inventory” tax) – it’s usable property, where people can build homes, have livestock, plant fruit trees, grow a garden, live off the grid, build a barn for the livestock – in short, live the American dream. And you attack that too, that’s “sprawllllll”

    Is there anything you are FOR, exactly?

  119. Ben
    March 2, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    So, if you can not make a profit on a rental, why do it?

  120. March 2, 2011 at 4:35 pm

    “can’t dump his motor oil” – – – uhhhh, fail. It is the dope growers who are polluting the land with their diesel dumps.

    In fact they have violated pretty much every single clause that you normally jump all over, holding people to obscure letters of the law and turning a great big giant blind eye – and “I don’t care” to every single violation perpetrated by the grower/dealer/pusher/polluter/taxcheats/skipping out on paying their employee withholding crowd.

    “Equal justice for all” – just more equal for the “approved” crowd. The new “good ol’ boys.”

  121. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Bingo Ben, has the light come on? Converting houses to rentals inflates the prices of houses so people who could otherwise buy have to become renters.

    But the ‘clever folks’ look to lock up a resource and then dole it out bit by bit while collecting a vigorish. Thats what economists call rent seeking behavior and they say its an unproductive use of capital.

  122. March 2, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    No, Ben – they want you to invest YOUR money, your time, your sweat, and then give it to them. They’d prefer that you make the mortgage payments, pay the insurance and utilities, make the repairs, pay the gardener and the maid, and the cable TV service – heck, why not throw in a cell-phone too?

    And, if they fill it up with dirt, you’re just shit out of luck – why’d you go and risk all that anyway, you must just be stupid. They don’t care.

  123. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Then sell it, Rose. Oh, but you won’t then get the profit out of it you want(deserve)? Well then live there yourself and enjoy ‘spreading your wings’. And you can aspire to someday being as enviable as John McCain and not know(or care to know) how many homes you have.

  124. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 5:06 pm

    Some of us put our retirement money in houses that needed to be fixed up instead of in retirement plans. It feels like a win-win if it works out. We improve the neighborhood, sometimes our own by making eyesores unto cute, well-kept places, and someday after years of probably breaking even or having small profits, we can sell the place and use it to retire. People who ruin other people’s property can destroy or delay their chance of a decent retirement someday.

  125. March 2, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    “…you’ve made it impossible for it to be used as timber land…”

    Rose thinks that you’re magically powerful.

  126. tra
    March 2, 2011 at 5:25 pm

    …you’ve made it impossible to use it as timber land.


    The timber industry is in a downturn because the demand for lumber is down due to the recession and the nationwide slump in new home construction. When demand for lumber and therefore the price of lumber rises again, there will be more logging again. Though of course it will never be like the historical “heydays” of massive old-growth logging in the past, or even the trippling of the cut that Hurwitz initiated at Maxxam/PL, in order to squeeze enough money out fast enough to pay the interest on his junk bonds while also diverting massive profits to Texas, before finally declaring bankruptcy (the old boom and bust routine).

    In the case of Maxxam, they increased the cut and liquidated virutally all their remaining holding of old growth redwood, which is more valuable than the fir and the second growth. Of course they cut a whole lot of that stuff, too.

    It used to be that we were logging forests where Mother Nature had done all the heavy lifting for 2,000+ years to grow the huge, large-diameter, high quality old growth trees, and then the logging company shows up at the end of that 2,000 years of natural wealth production and reaps the benefit of all that natural wealth.

    But that particular free ride is pretty much gone, and it’s obviously a lot less profitable when you have to wait around for the recently overlogged, often heavily clear-cut lands to regenerate and produce the second-growth timber, and even then the lumber doesn’t fetch as good a price.

  127. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 5:34 pm

    “the mills are gone, closed, kaput”

    Wrong, there are less of them, however, due to their mechanized efficiency they can produce more lumber than ever.

  128. Outraged
    March 2, 2011 at 5:39 pm

    Hilarious how “Rose” completely glosses-over the fact that the infrastructure the Bigs exceeded to maximize their profits, NEVER ACTUALLY BELONGED TO THEM. Except for a pathetic, woefully inadequate “fair share” fee structure. Our infrastructure is largely funded, into perpetuity, by the 75% of local residents unqualified to own them!

    Injustice is seldom clearer.

    As if that’s not outrageous enough, the developers are demanding compensation for “taking” zoning codes away that enabled their excesses in the first place!

    Who will reimburse Eureka’s citizens for the costs of more poverty in their communities, for the loss of streets for safe walking or biking?

  129. March 2, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    Maybe, Outraged, you can just find an old printing press and print up some “community currency” – keep your people in poverty that way, it works real well. driving out all employers really helps too. It’s almost too late. We’re am area that decided to rely on people retiring out of high rent areas like the Bay Area, selling for big bucks down there and coming up here (one thing that drove the prices up, btw) and living a genteel lifestyle that didn’t require any dirty stuff like real work (since they’re retired, see) – thinking you could make a go of it with some high rent services like massage therapists, I guess, for the retiring yuppies…

    Only problem is – it ain’t working out so well.

    Top that off with an extremely lucrative welfare set up here, it’s no wonder you’re overrun.

    Then top that off with the lenient drug situation – it’s a recipe for disaster.

    Travel a bit and you’ll see it isn’t like this everywhere.

  130. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 5:57 pm

    Time to pick sides, ya’ll. The money crowd (HELP, NCHB, HumCPR, HAR), both locally and throughout the country, have drawn a line in the sand. They are saying it’s all about short-term profit. The other option: vibrant communities, healthy ecosystems and a resilient local economy. Can we do this?

    March 2, 2011 at 6:00 pm


    how many people bagging on Julie and others would themself go before the PC, or County Supes or City officials to say what they anonymously say in blogosphere?

    Yep, Just as I thought, KFC fastfood impatience.


  132. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 6:01 pm

    Anon 5:06, You seem to be claiming an entitlement to a particular wealth building strategy. Is that what you were told in that real estate investment seminar? How about all those former Enron, World Com and Lehman Bros. employees who saw their retirement strategies fail? How about the slave owners in antebellum US? Are you ‘more entitled’ than they are?

    Simply because you acquire something doesn’t give you a right of retained value, even if you’ve modified it. Most obvious example of that is US currency. When public policies that affect asset values are considered, transitions plans are often considered fair and just.

    But also consider the situation of an oil company that is deciding whether to put billions into its business while facing the prospect of climate change regulation. At the same time citizens clamor and politicians pander for more and cheaper gas.

    My advice is to diversify your savings or vote for candidates who promote the wealth of this country being more equitably distributed. There’s no economic reason for anyone in the US to be economically insecure after age 70 or before age 5.

  133. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 6:02 pm

    Let’s designate team captains – perhaps Ben would like to lead the morally bankrupt Team Profit to their cavern of inevitable collapse.

    March 2, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Anonymous says:
    March 2, 2011 at 5:57 pm
    Time to pick sides, ya’ll. The money crowd (HELP, NCHB, HumCPR, HAR), both locally and throughout the country, have drawn a line in the sand. They are saying it’s all about short-term profit. The other option: vibrant communities, healthy ecosystems and a resilient local economy. Can we do this?

    Response: As if it is about “sides” ; and, about only “TWO sides”. This is why political dualopolist thinkers are so popualr these days (NOT) and why more people are disenfranchised (DUH).


  135. March 2, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Rose weaves everything together just like Glenn Beck: “…while NAN was destroying the logging industry, Outraged was making a fortune on welfare…”

  136. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 6:26 pm

    NAN, you have shown a sour view of those who “have” anything, in my estimation. I don’t feel entitled, only wanted to point out that some people try to cover their future in another way (instead of depending on the companies you mentioned to manage any funds we might have been able to save, and with the scary results you alluded to). I wanted to give another view of why it hurts people when their rentals are damaged. It’s similar to being ripped off by Madoff, to me. You entrust someone with an asset and they have cheated and deceived you. I have tried to diversify and there are few safe havens for anything of value, certainly anyone who has worked hard all their life would understand why entitlement wouldn’t get them anywhere. I wonder if you do?

  137. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 7:04 pm

    Anon 6:25, you don’t like the truth of the facts and thats too bad. You’ve got no “right” to profit from renting out residences. Especially in a time when there’s widespread homelessness with misery and suffering, caused in large part by housing being treated as an investment commodity. Its not too far off to at least debate whether amassing individual wealth that way is immoral profiteering.

    People who sold water in New Orleans for $5 a bottle were criticized and even congress enacted a ‘windfall profits’ tax on oil companies at one time to address widely understood immorality. And BTW, in recovering Madoff’s assets, the administrator is successfully ‘clawing back’ gains that some of Madoff’s clients took, despite that they weren’t party to his scam.

    On a personal note, I’ve worked productively and have savings to show for it. But I don’t pursue or expect investment returns much above inflation. My retirement will be funded by the earnings from MY work, not the work of tenants who productivity I’ve corralled.

  138. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 7:19 pm

    Oh NAN, you are such a genius.

  139. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    Oh anon7:19, you’re too clever for words.

  140. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    In Eureka there many old historic houses that have been cut up into multi-units so home owners can’t buy them because their price often goes up when they are cut up as rentals. But with the housing prices now some are on the market at a low price and with sweat equity can be rehabilitated and turned back into single family homes. Eureka is more affordable than other towns in California. It is a shame that Eureka’s houses have been used just to make a $ and not cared for. This is not the way to have a safe and prosperous town.

  141. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    Amen anon7:32.

    And don’t feel too sorry for landlords who rent at maximum rates and then whine when the tenants engage in destructive activities to pay the rent. And yes, there are cynical greedy tenants who pull the reverse con. Once exploitation for gain is regarded as good business, ethics and morality go out the window and everyone becomes adversarial. Thats not the way to have a safe and prosperous town.

  142. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 7:58 pm

    “Once exploitation for gain is regarded as good business”
    we should all make our money in savings accounts like NAN. wait, did they take your money and loan it to people who lost their homes NAN?

  143. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    I love it when Rose complains about the local job market when she, in fact, IS NOT EMPLOYED, nor is she looking for employment

    Republicans are the best, eh?

  144. March 2, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    “Anon 6:25, you don’t like the truth of the facts and thats too bad. You’ve got no ‘right’ to profit from renting out residences.”

    He should just rent to people out of the goodness of his heart?

  145. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 9:29 pm

    McKinleyville chiropractor Bill Wennerholm and elected member of the McKinleyville Community Services District has been outed as “connect the dots” at the Mirror.

  146. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 9:37 pm

    NAN just hates anyone who makes a living in any way he doesn’t approve of. Fixing up old dumps and making them livable is a bad thing? Making a living (or trying to) doing it? How judgmental. I don’t charge outrageous rents. Some of my renters have become friends. Some people would rather rent than buy. Did you know that? The attitude- how sad.

  147. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Anon7:58 you’re exactly wrong about how money in savings accounts is used. Thge money that funded those liar and NINJA loans came from ‘collaterized debt obligations’ created by investment bankers. and those CDO’s sold to people who wanted a much larger profit than they could get from savings accounts. My savings are mainly used for small business, auto, and personal loans that the banks held on their own accounts as well as held as reserve for the bank.

    Joel, you’re confusing a real right to rent a house with an assumed right to profit from rent. What “he should” do is to sell his house to an owner occupant who will have an interest to build a safe and prosperous town. and When people were selling water in New Orleans that was their right. When people were charging $5 a bottle that wasn’t their right. It also wasn’t the right of oil companies to markup the cost of oil that they had withheld from the market waiting for panic prices. And clearly Joel, you don’t believe goodness of heart has any proper place in investing or you wouldn’t flippantly ridicule it. So sorry that you and Gordon Gecko both believe greed is good

  148. March 2, 2011 at 9:53 pm

    Not a Native has so much in common with Rose. They are sure that they know what others think, and they both inflate every discussion with gale force hyperbole.

  149. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 9:59 pm

    Nothing wrong with rentals but when you have a whole part of town that is mostly rentals there is no pride of ownership. This is what has happened to Eureka. It is used by many just as a way to squeeze money out of a house. Too much of this creates rundown buildings and unsafe living conditions. The surrounding neighborhoods then deteriorate and many responsible people leave. There needs to be a balance. This condition has been created by the city in there grab for grant money. They have to create more low income housing to satisfy the government mandate. The redevelopment department is at fault here along with the slumlords. If the city had brains they would not choose to blight their historic neighborhoods in order to receive government grants and funding. Housing elements create grant W H O R E S.

  150. Not A Native
    March 2, 2011 at 10:05 pm

    Anon 9:37 just is upset that people point out that his decision to profit from converting residential neighborhoods to rental neighborhoods causes harm. He knows perfectly well that neighborhoods that become largely converted rentals also decline in political involvement and desirability as a place to live. How does he feel if the houses next door become rentals? But its easy for him to have a self justifying point of view when he’s making money from it.

  151. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:07 pm

    A person who owns a house has every right to profit from renting that house out, just like a person has every right to get interest on their money in a bank. Every right.

  152. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:10 pm

    How do you feel when the house next door has fallen into disrepair and no one steps up to fix it? Right now it doesn’t pay to fix it and resell. It makes more sense to fix it and rent it. People will buy later when they have more in the bank and a more stable base. It’s basic economics. You don’t sell a place that people don’t want to buy.

  153. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:11 pm

    NAN, neighborhoods are improved, not damaged by those who clean them up. Rentals are needed as much as homes you can purchase.

  154. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:19 pm

    Eureka and it’s historic neighborhoods are a perfect example of the problems created by an overabundance of rentals all in one place. Housing elements are just a vehicle for the redevelopment agencies and pet builders and slumlords to make money and stay employed. They do not give a shit about the quality of life for others. They usually live in quiet rural areas while they turn neighborhoods into slums. Hey, it’s not in their backyard so why give a shit.

  155. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:24 pm

    Arcata/HSU is a good example of an area where rentals are needed. People need housing and renting is the only way for a lot of people.

  156. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:26 pm

    Jerry, If you are listening, Please take away their monopoly money, then get very particular about who gets it back and why. These pigs have been getting fat on the government dole and lining their pockets in the name of “redevelopment”, “affordable housing development” , “community development” what do all these things have in common? Fat sweaty brown shoe wearing swine in suits.

  157. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Look at the price difference in single family and multi-family homes. That shows how desirable rental houses are. Multi family zoning is a curse.

  158. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:33 pm

    10:26, you judge every person who is a landlord to be despicable? I feel sorry for you. No sense even trying to set you straight. I would call you a hopeless case. I hope you don’t judge the whole human race in such a narrow way. It’s sad.

  159. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:35 pm

    Multi family homes are more expensive, right? They would bring in more rent.

  160. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:36 pm

    I hope the new governor cleans house on the redevelopment scam. This outfit has ruined thousands of towns. It has kept the worst pencil pushing pantywaist government pimps in business. Redevelopment is the biggest pork barrel scam that ever came down the pike.

  161. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:37 pm

    All the anonymi on posts like these is further PROOF of people’s fear of retaliation! That is discrimination, corruption, civil rights violations, unacceptable, unconscionable and it is just about time we all stand up and let them know we have had e fucking nuff . This is our city, our government, our tax money, if you think you have been held down by the development community and their pawns and provocateurs start speaking up, it is our bad if we do not engage, where are all these outraged folk when this shit is on the council agenda, I heard a bunch of fools backing up the clowns. Everytime I watch this shit I consider canceling my cable, but you know what, YOU HAVE TO WATCH, YOU HAVE TO BE DISGUSTED, YOU HAVE TO GET IRATE THEN YOU HAVE TO ENGAGE! FUCK does anyone else miss Larry Glass, where the fuck are you Larry this is a SICKENING!!!!
    Fuck all you fucks that fell victim to the 4 color adds, you know who you are, YOU SHOULD BE ASHAMED look what we have now and XANDRA uuuuuuuh enough said!!!!!!!!!!

  162. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:39 pm

    Sour Grapes my ass this is pure unadulterated anger

  163. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    Anonymous 10:26 couldn’t have been more truthful.

  164. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:40 pm

    I take pride in my rentals. I have some nice renters, have fixed some dilapidated buildings and made cute and nice places for people to live, and enjoy keeping them in good condition. It’s a positive way to live and I feel good about it. I don’t make much money but it’s enough to keep the places going.

  165. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Anonymous 10:33 – 10:26 is talking about the Redevelopment scam-Get some info or are YOU a slimy redevelopment $ grant W h o r e ?

  166. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 11:27 pm

    10:33″ you judge every person who is a landlord to be despicable? I feel sorry for you. No sense even trying to set you straight. I would call you a hopeless case. I hope you don’t judge the whole human race in such a narrow way. It’s sad.”

    Nope, just the developer pigs that have been bilking the city/county coffers in the name of “helping the community” or “curing blight” or some bullshit flowery name for getting together, submitting fat ass bid packages and suckling off Dave Tysons complicit Teat. I didnt day anything about landlords.

    btw I do not consider them part of the human race they are barnyard animals, pigs, cows and chickens

  167. Anonymous
    March 2, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    Please do not insult barnyard animals by using them in the same post with redevelopment, housing elements etc. There should be a definition in the dictionary that wholly explains what and who these pathetic entities are that pander in this disgusting way for grant funding. It should explain the harm they have caused to many towns in the United states. Then all would understand why these parasites should have the rug pulled out from under them.

  168. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 7:03 am

    My retirement will be funded by the earnings from MY work,

    My savings are mainly used for small business, auto, and personal loans that the banks held on their own accounts as well as held as reserve for the bank.

    whose work would that be NAN? you mean the interest you are earning on the backs of poor people making their car payments?

    think about that you hypocrite.

  169. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 7:14 am

    Landlords often were/are “developers”. How small do you have to be before you are exempt from the critics here? We small time developers have to go and apply for permits and are affected by these rules as well.

  170. grant whore
    March 3, 2011 at 7:59 am

    I believe that redevelopment funds contributed to the creation of Arcata’s, Valley West Business Park. The “park” is an overwhelming success and envy of many towns. Maybe the new conservative Eureka City Council could take notice what its liberal neighbor to the north is doing.

  171. March 3, 2011 at 9:14 am

    10:26, you judge every person who is a landlord to be despicable?

    If every person who is a landlord sees the writing on the wall reading this blog – and removes the homes they lend to others from the market – no more rentals – what happens?

    You really need to stop and think about what you’re saying, what it means… what happened to respect for people? for private property? When you rent someone else’s home, whether it is long term or a week-long condo rental…

    What kind of sickness has taken over?

  172. March 3, 2011 at 10:32 am

    “writing on the wall “?

    As usual, Rose is metaphorically challenged.

  173. March 3, 2011 at 10:33 am

    “If every person who is a landlord…”

    And hyperbolic.

  174. taxed
    March 3, 2011 at 10:35 am

    The Redevelopment agency’s decide what areas to blight and turn into slums to put low income housing in. They do this to show they have met the state mandate for 20-25% low income in exchange for receiving grant money. By the way The Serenity Inn on Broadway is considered low income. The lie is that it is really affordable housing for working people and it’s not. Look at the housing element in the general plan. Affordable housing is for the mentally ill, substance abusers and homeless emergency shelters etc. Wake up, Redevelopment departments use your tax dollar to blight parts of town to get$ to fix up other parts of town like the Boardwalk for instance.

  175. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 10:42 am

    A house that rents for $1000 a month and has two persons living there while they go to college or take a temporary local position is pretty low cost housing. They haven’t had to buy anything, take care of any yard, or fix things that are broken, and for their shares of 500 per month they can leave when they choose to without any more responsibility.

  176. taxed
    March 3, 2011 at 10:47 am

    Just take a look at the historic neighborhoods in Eureka and tell me that they haven’t been abused by slumlords and those that just want to drain the cash out of them.

  177. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 10:51 am

    Many of the so called LANDLORDS are actually ruining the town and keeping from being a beautiful and prosperous place.

  178. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 10:51 am

    I am sure they have. Also look at cute places someone has cared to bring back to use and beauty. Thank a samll time developer for that one.

  179. taxed
    March 3, 2011 at 10:58 am

    The Chamber Of commerce is partly at fault because they do not advertise the historic neighborhoods for tourists. If the tourists saw the beautiful architecture here some would want buy the houses and live in them. This would take the rentals away from the good ole boys. It would also take the designated warehouse and dumping ground away from The Redevelopment Agency. Then where would they put the mandated low income housing? Not in their neighborhoods.

  180. Not A Native
    March 3, 2011 at 10:59 am

    Anon 7:03, its all in the numbers. Savings accounts pay very little compared to the outsize returns that residential landloard get. In fact the motivating factor to rent rather than sell is that the owner expects to get more money renting than by selling and putting the proceeds in a savings account.

    Some here write it doesn’t “pay” to fix up a house and sell it. Well then, why not sell it unfixed to a buyer who wants to live there and doesn’t need to be “paid” to fix it since they live there and will personally benefit from the fixing up? And they might fix it up by doing the work themselves rather than simply turning rent checks over to a contractor. That what keeps neighborhoods being nice places to live. But I get it, in that case the beneifts go to the new people living in the home, not to the last owner.

    I’m proud to fairly help small business expand and then keep ALL the return from their work by borrowing at a small fixed rate. At the end of the day, my money gives other people an opportunity to get more wealthy

    Conversely, renters face constantly escalating rent costs while landlord’s cost are mostly fixed so landlords take increasing amounts of their tenants wealth. Over time the gap between their wealth grows larger and larger.

    As others here point out, many developers began amassing their wealth as landlords which provided the outsize profits for them to ‘get to the next higher level’, while their tenants simultaneously get to the next lower level.

  181. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Most of the well cared for homes are owner occupied.

  182. Plain Jane
    March 3, 2011 at 11:10 am

    The point being missed is that people buying multiple properties for rentals drive up the price for those looking for homes to buy and that, consequently, drives up the rents. As I stated earlier in the thread, the median price of homes here is 2/3 the state average but wages are half the state average. In the time period that housing prices went up 100%, local wages increased by less than 20%. Jacking up rents to the point that only growers can afford them and then complaining about the damage they do really takes the cake. I know rental property owners who take very good care of their rentals and keep their rents reasonable to keep their good, long term tenants. Unfortunately, that isn’t the case with many landlords.

  183. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 12:11 pm

    NAN, landlord costs go up with everything else. You have no idea what you are talking about. You are one of those who display “class envy” being discussed on another thread here.

  184. High Finance
    March 3, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    What do you haters think would happen if people with money to invest did not invest it in rentals ?

    The number of rentals available for people who can’t afford to or don’t want to buy their own homes would dramatically decline over time.

    The law of supply & demand would then force the price of renting a place up.

    You all should thank your lucky stars that people build & buy rentals. Now that housing prices are no longer increasing out of control, owning a rental is not a money making operation except in the long run. Landlords put up with a lot of bad tenants and a lot of grief.

    Those who think that landlords costs are stable are full of baloney. Our costs for repairs, for insurance, for property taxes, for advertising goes up every single year. The increasing drug use is causing the number of bad tenants and the damage they do to go up dramatically. The legal costs to evict even the worst tenants is high and they can drag the process out many months. Meantime they stop paying the rent and we still have to make the mortgage payments.

  185. Floid Skwires
    March 3, 2011 at 12:26 pm

    “You all should thank your lucky stars that people build & buy rentals.” I agree with Hi-Fi. You should be on your knees thanking us. Oh, you already are. Wages are flat and housing/gas/utilities/insurance/food are on the rise. Also unemployment is up. By the way, next month your rent is increasing. I have a standard of living you know.

  186. Floid Skwires
    March 3, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    No one understands me but Hi-Fi does. Hi-Fi, see you at the Ingomar later?

  187. Plain Jane
    March 3, 2011 at 12:36 pm

    Yes, people should thank their lucky stars that they get to pay the mortgage, taxes, and maintenance of homes in which they’ll never share a dime of equity for people who buy anything remotely reasonable to turn into more rentals. What a bunch of whiners!

  188. March 3, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    “Sticks and sttones can break my bones but names can never hurt me” we all chanted–so why resort to name
    callng instead of sticking to the ?worthy point of
    discussion?__RAGING GRANNY

  189. High Finanze
    March 3, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    What PJ and comrades don’t get is that the development community has always enjoyed a God-granted right to use the public’s infrastructure for whatever the market will yield to those who OWN the land.

    You and your commie representatives are going to have to pay HUGE DAMAGES if you try and take away our right to build the next housing bubble to bailout.

    If we want big homes within the wetlands, if we want tenements next to Victorians, if we want another thousand subdivisions on small rural roads ten miles outside of town…it’s OUR LAND!!

    Honestly, how is the 75% of local residents, (who can’t even afford to own a home here), going to utilize their infrastructure, if we don’t?

    We are the “job creating community” and your skyrocketing sewer bills, unsafe streets for pedestrians, cyclists, and motorists, and the poverty exacerbated by unaffordable housing, are mere trifles.

    People fought and died for our American freedoms, and if I can be part of that freedom-loving minority that can profit from returning our civilization to some sort of barbaric feudalism, It’s MY RIGHT!

    We only want the benefits we are due, just like the interest you earned on your bank account…1%?

    God, I love freedom.

  190. Anon
    March 3, 2011 at 1:08 pm

    HiFi is right about having to spend a lot of money to fix up rentals and have to make the payments while trying to evict someone that quits paying rent and may still be doing more damage to the house.

    Just had a tenant bail to his lease which did not end until August. Now I have to pay for the damage he did which security deposit does not even come close to covering. He even removed some almost new carpeting and has left the State. I do not charge what the market will bear and give people a fair shake. Have had some good tenants and some very bad ones too.

  191. Floid Skwires
    March 3, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    Obey Hi-Fi, he knows what he’s talking about. We have a “right” to under-pay you and over-charge you. It’s our right! My forefathers genocide many cultures of people who were living here previously and we enslaved a continent of people so we could do what we are doing today. Obey us or you “will have to pay HUGE DAMAGES!!!!!”

  192. High Landlord
    March 3, 2011 at 1:37 pm

    If you prick us, do we not bleed?

    If we fall on hard times, are we not forced to evict a renter because now WE need a place to live?

    You don’t know how painful that is until you’ve waled in our shoes.

  193. Anon
    March 3, 2011 at 1:39 pm

    Who has the right to “wale” in those shoes?

    Lucky bastards.

  194. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 1:50 pm

    Redevelopment is a scam.

  195. Chaos
    March 3, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Unaffordable housing is a looting of public resources.

    Social engineering by the highest bidders brought us here.

  196. Not A Native
    March 3, 2011 at 3:00 pm

    In more civilized US places, rent increases are regulated to reflect the actual increases in landlords costs. But rentals are still readily available in those places, although not as profitable as in unregulated places. Funny how those regulated rent increases are a lot less than what local landlords ask.

    And you know, property taxes increase at only 1% a year, and mortgage costs have gone down significantly since the recession began. Most tenants pay utilites, trash, and water. Oh, but the landlord needs more money to build up down payments to convert more houses to rentals. Jane is absolutely correct, house prices increase due to people looking for a place to live having to outbid people just looking to make money.

  197. March 3, 2011 at 3:23 pm

    Sorry, NAN, but landlords are not fugitives from the laws of supply and demand.

  198. Not A Native
    March 3, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    You’re right Joel. landlords don’t change the ‘laws’ of supply and demand. But landlords do change the amounts of supply and demand for housing and their presence in the market results in higher prices, greater differences in wealth, dilapidated buildings, and declining neighborhoods.

  199. Jim Crow
    March 3, 2011 at 3:46 pm

    “landlords are not fugitives from the laws of supply and demand.” Sorry Joel. 99% of the “Lawmakers” (Congress and Senate) are lawyers, businesspeople, & property owners and they WRITE ALL OF THE LAWS. So, of course they are not fugitives. And yes, they control the supply (they build them all) and consequently they control the demand. Yer buddy Floid Skwires has the supply, have you seen his sh*! hole shacks? Yeah sure, its the renters fault. Back to 5th grade Joel.

  200. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 3:58 pm

    Jane, renters pay rent. That is their responsibility. Landlords pay their mortgages, insurance, taxes, repairs. That is their responsibility. If the renter doesn’t pay, or causes damage the owner still has to. Just like a grocery store where you buy food, the store hopes to make enough profit to not only have covered the mortgage, etc but to also make a living. What about business do you not get? As a renter, you are not “paying the mortgage” for the owner. He owes it no matter if you are there or not. What you pay is his income, and he pays the mortgage out of that. But it is no different from any other business. You don’t seem to think a landlord has a right to take your money.

  201. March 3, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Jim Crow and NAN are a lot like teabaggers. When they are angry, they invariably attack the wrong people.

  202. Plain Jane
    March 3, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    The grocer isn’t renting the same item over and over, 3:58. He sells it. If rents didn’t pay all the expenses of a rental, there wouldn’t be rentals other than those whose owners need a tax write off. I don’t have a landlord but I have had them in the past and have been one. I had some great landlords and some awful ones. Bottom line is if they didn’t make a profit on rentals, they wouldn’t be buying them, housing prices would be lower and people could save money to buy their own rather than paying for someone elses.

  203. Jim Crow
    March 3, 2011 at 4:25 pm

    What’s wrong Joel? Run out of “false logic” and resorting to name calling? Just like yer buddy Hi-Fi. How sad.

  204. March 3, 2011 at 4:27 pm

    Sorry Jim Crow, but you make about as much sense as your namesake.

  205. Lawyer
    March 3, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    “The LAW of supply and demand”.

    How quaint that people still believe such rubbish.

    If there were ample affordable housing for average local families to purchase, that they CHOOSE TO FORGO, preferring to rent instead…

    THEN, AND ONLY THEN, do all those idiotic statements about the “service” landlords are providing become legitimate.

    It’s as if Monsanto manufactured a toxic pesticide, then manufactured a drug you must rent to counteract the effects.

    The “other law” of supply and demand….

  206. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 4:32 pm

    Supply and demand rules. Also location location location. Try it, it works.

  207. Jim Crow
    March 3, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Sure Joel, more disparagement please. My shoulders are broad enough to carry your insults. How’s Winco today Joel?

  208. March 3, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Poor Jim Crow. Sniff.

  209. Random Guy
    March 3, 2011 at 5:10 pm

    I almost gave up reading this thread…everybody complaining about the book based on its cover.

    Wouldn’t it be cool if we made Humboldt County as immune to the rest of the world’s inflation as possible? Gotta be real about how to do that, within the realm of what we do…or DON’T do. It would be really great if Humboldt’s real estate moguls embraced this idea as well. Some obviously aren’t trying very hard to do anything but make more money for themselves at our expense. It’s perfectly legitimate to stump them, just as they feel it’s perfectly legitimate to crowd us and lower our quality of life.

  210. Random Guy
    March 3, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    …must be in another thread I just read…somebody wrote America’s got 300 million people trying to make a living and 10 million people trying to make a killing. That pretty well sums it up. Gotta start stopping Humboldt’s share of that 10 million in their tracks. THEY should have to move before people who know how to live sensibly do.

  211. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 5:22 pm

    How about all the houses bought by landlords for drug rehabs. Dozens of these houses would be available and for sale if they were available. Then family’s and individuals could buy them. Also RCAA a non profit owns several houses in the historic neighborhoods that are not lived in but used for rehab-office space. Add all these up and you are missing many housing opportunities for working people.

  212. Not A Native
    March 3, 2011 at 6:22 pm

    Random Guy, you can eliminate people but you can’t kill an idea. No one can always resist the temptation to take home all the chips from the poker game.

    IMHO, both personal restraints through moral and social conventions, and institutional restraints through coercive and punitve restrictions are needed for people to live as righteously as possible.

    Even with those restraints people will continually devise ways to evade or negate them. Some congressman said society needs to be run like a good pasture. Gotta mow the grass level from time to time else there’ll be small clumps of high grass and large mostly bare spots.

  213. High Finance
    March 3, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    In a free market, the rule of supply & demand is absolute.

    Our society cannot affect the demand side of the equation, more people will be moving to Humboldt County whether you like it or not. We can only affect the supply side.

    Want lower rents, want lower housing prices ? Let the developers build more houses.

  214. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    Why not free up some of the properties that are taken away from renters and buyers looking to own a home. Hey- all you sleaze balls that own all those houses that are drug halfway houses. You have taken these houses off the market and are guaranteed rent $ from the government. RCAA the “NON-PROFIT”? that pays no taxes on property that houses homeless and addicted and keeps many of there properties just for office space. No wonder people complain that there are no rentals. With these scam outfits owning dozens of houses working people do not have a chance.

  215. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 7:08 pm

    “In a free market, the rule of supply & demand is absolute.”

    You’re right on that one Finance. I hate it when the developers tell us that fees associated with permitting, regulation, etc. is passed straight on to the consumer. That’s such bull! The free market sets the price, not the cost of the job. Such fees simply cut into the developer’s profit margin. That’s why they bitch and whine so much!

  216. High Finance
    March 3, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    I would have to agree with you 7.08pm.

  217. High Finance
    March 3, 2011 at 7:30 pm

    I need to clarify that last post of mine.

    You are right to degree in the short run 7.08pm. The developers cannot add those fees to the cost of the houses that they sell & it does cut into their margins.

    But then, if their margins are cut to the point it isn’t worth the time & risk to build those houses, they stop building as many. The supply runs down & then the golden rule forces prices up.

    Also, for the most part, those fees are the same whether it is a $200,000 house or a $400,000 house. Thus the fees discourage building more low cost houses.

  218. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 7:50 pm

    In 2003 during Eureka’s general plan update and the housing element the former Community Development Director planner admitted that we really did not need more affordable housing in Eureka. We had actually lost population. He admitted that it was a ”charade” that they had play to get government and grant funding.

  219. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    The same city Community Director admitted that they put all the low income housing THAT THEY REALLY DIDN’T need on the West Side. When he was asked why he said ‘Where else should we put it”. HE lived in Arcata.

  220. Plain Jane
    March 3, 2011 at 7:56 pm

    That must be why housing prices have doubled,7:50.

  221. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    That may be true Finance, but developers still build, just not as quickly

  222. March 3, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Not a Native has so much in common with Rose.

    WOW! Joel – you live in some weird state of unreality. A planet in some solar system none of us have even imagined. Me? And Not a Native? Hilarious.

  223. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 8:48 pm

    I have to add, I know some of the big developers and some of them are the nicest people. Really.

  224. Anonymous
    March 3, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    “In a free market, the rule of supply & demand is absolute.”

    The free market does not account for externalized or latent costs.

  225. Mike Buettner
    March 3, 2011 at 9:28 pm

    “you live in some weird state of unreality.”

    Spoken by someone who knows.

  226. March 3, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    If Not a Native had an honest bone in his body he’d write “in my opinion” rather than “IMHO.”

    And yes Rose, it’s “hilarious” that you and Not a Native have so much in common, but I wish that you’d both just think before you comment.

  227. March 3, 2011 at 9:47 pm

    And good point, Anonymous 8:53, “The free market does not account for externalized or latent costs.”

  228. Sam Spade
    March 4, 2011 at 8:18 am

    “In a free market, the rule of supply & demand is absolute.” Unless less than 10% of the people collectively own all the banks, the development companies, 90% of residential rentals, and 90% of the stock and consequently 90% of the profits. So “free market” is a relative phrase. If I can control the supply, then I have demand in hand.

  229. AJ
    March 4, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Found this looking for something entirely different.

    Captain Buhne comparing Dave Silverbrand to Muammar Gaddafi.

  230. High FinanZe
    March 4, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    It doesn’t matter that Alan Greenspan testified before Congress last July, 2007, that the “free market, deregulation movement of the last 30 years was a FAILED IDEOLOGY”.

    If you’re not part of the solution, there’s good money in prolonging the problem!

    We’ve made a bundle off the little-people’s infrastructure building the first two housing bubbles since 1980, and we’re fighting for the 3rd!

    “No single drop of water believes its responsible for the flood”.

    Learn something comrades!

    “Supply and demand”?


  231. Hbomb
    March 4, 2011 at 2:43 pm

    I haven’t been able to completely figure out the Heraldo crew. It’s like anyone who want’s to live in the country and not be crowded into the city, or anyone employed in the construction industry, is an enemy of; 1)representative government 2) the land 3) the people.

    As far as I can tell the H crew only approves of; 1) Homosexual acts 2) Unions and the denial of the right to work 3) Government dictators over property rights and privacy. 4) Close tenement housing.

    Maybe all these things are related? Are these symptoms of an infectious Heraldo disease?


  232. Random Guy
    March 4, 2011 at 4:24 pm

    Are you being sarcastic, Hbomb? Your homework is to write a post as word-for-word identical to what you just wrote, but from the perspective of the other “side” of the one you just invented.

  233. Random Guy
    March 4, 2011 at 4:29 pm

    NAN @ 622, I agree…but you’re getting into the realm of human nature in general…whether you think for better or worse, the political process is a step-by-step conundrum that is in desperate need of focusing on specific decision making when and where it happens. Like enough people calling campaign bullshit to weed out those liars, whatever specific ordinances/zone changes(!)/politics in general on the table at the moment, etc…

  234. High Finance
    March 5, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    How about “campaign bullshit” by one candidate who said he single handly started & then saved the POP program ?

  235. Owltotem
    March 5, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    What are you talking about Fi did you post on the wrong thread or did I miss something.

  236. High Finance
    March 6, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Well that is strange Owltotem. Either Heraldo erased the post I was responding to (it was slightly off topic) or the netherworld Gremlins jumped my post to a different topic !

    Wherever it is, I was responding to a post who said something about the left losing the city council race because of “campaign bullshit”.

  237. Plain Jane
    March 6, 2011 at 12:00 pm

    No, read Random Guy at 4:29. When did Larry ever say he had singlehandedly started and saved POP?

  238. High Finance
    March 6, 2011 at 12:45 pm

    Thanks PJ, it was Random Guy (I should have known) at 4.29 I was responding to.

    But really dear, Larry said over & over that he was responsible for the POP program. You must really try to pay attention during the next campaign.

  239. High Fiananze
    March 6, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    Former police officials also took credit for resurrecting the POP program…

    I’m not a hater.

    Larry Glass is “different”.

    He demonstrated that liberals can win in Eureka when they organize, accumulate enough money to be players, and plan effective media events that educate their constituents.

    Thank God the Citizens United S.C. ruling will nail the liberal coffin closed.

  240. High Finance
    March 6, 2011 at 6:36 pm

    I apologize for being so forgetful. Of course Larry made that claim and made it often during his campaign, I personally heard him say it.

  241. Anonymous
    March 6, 2011 at 7:18 pm

    Larry got POP going. Before Larry it was just business as usual for Eureka. Just a lot of talk and no action. Now that Larry is gone I am sure that the only thing that will run in this city is the bull shit. Larry actually improved safety in Eureka. Our neighborhoods have never been this quiet and most of the drug houses are closed down. Larry actually worked with the police and wasn’t the usual incompetent, apathetic council person that Eureka was used to accepting.

  242. pete
    March 6, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    Larry was able to work with the Chief of Police to make POP the success it is.

  243. Plain Jane
    March 6, 2011 at 7:27 pm

    Now did he say he was responsible for getting POP going or that he was “singlehandedly” responsible for it, HiFi? Don’t lie now.

  244. High Finanze
    March 7, 2011 at 12:01 am


    Comrade hater…

  245. High Finance
    March 7, 2011 at 8:45 am

    So FU Heraldo. The only imposter who is allowed to post with their intentionally misleading avatar is the one who mimics me?

    But it is obvious who it is. A-Nony-Mouse has disappeared at the same time that High Finanze appeared. Plus Finanze has displayed the same immaturity level that afflicted Mouse.

  246. March 7, 2011 at 8:55 am

    High Finanze needs to pick a new name.

  247. High Finesse
    March 7, 2011 at 2:24 pm

    Only a silly little conceited buffoon cares about such matters.

    Thanks for the laughs!!

    You’re the only one to be MOCKED (not mimicked) because your consistent avoidance of the thousand pound Gorillas in the right-wing living room BEGS for it. A few are listed above, among many others, still unaddressed. How many times did “Mitch” have to ask you the most elementary question about your plans to address poverty before, reluctantly, you put your hallmark bigotry and dimwit “comrade” crap aside to make an attempt?

    Sure was fun!

    With love,


  248. High Finance
    March 7, 2011 at 4:33 pm

    Grow up Mouse, your act is very childish.

  249. March 8, 2011 at 10:59 pm

    “Unions and the denial of the right to work 3) Government dictators over property rights and privacy.”

    Well done your master is pleased I’m sure.

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