Home > Green Diamond Resource Company, Trinidad California > Green Diamond to clear-cut near Strawberry Rock

Green Diamond to clear-cut near Strawberry Rock

A timber company’s plan to clear-cut near a look-out spot north of Trinidad known as Strawberry Rock has spawned a new blog.

The Trinidad Forest Forum posted links to the logging plan and maps of the area.

This logging plan includes 84 acres of clear-cutting and 25.5 acres of “selection” logging. The main trail up to Strawberry Rock passes through a grove with trees over 100 years old, this is marked on the maps as “Unit E.” 18 acres are slated for clear-cutting in that patch. 6.5 is marked for selection. There are very few trees left in the Trinidad area even close to 100 years old. The forest on the west facing slopes and terraces uphill from Trinidad was mostly clear-cut in the early 1900’s and later burned in a huge fire in 1945. It was then logged again, the timber company (companies?) took most of the remaining big trees. Green Diamond aims to take some of the very few that remain, a grove that holds significance for many people who visit the rock and the forest.

The blog “is intended to serve as a forum for information about the proposed clear-cuts near Strawberry Rock,” so you can keep up with the discussion there.  Bookmark the link or find it in the Humboldt Herald blogroll.

  1. March 22, 2011 at 6:29 am

    Ain’t greed grand? And we wonder why our rivers run brown with the lightest rain. Talk about soil abuse!

  2. March 22, 2011 at 6:45 am

    Pecker pole harvesting at its finest!

  3. Ben
    March 22, 2011 at 6:58 am

    A-Nony-Mouse knows little about current logging practices and Randy, I believe that that area was probably logged 50 or more years ago. The reason this is an issue is that people hike to the rock for the view, and remember Green Diamond is not in the park business.

  4. Ponder z
    March 22, 2011 at 7:02 am

    This trail has been used for years as a route to the rock. It could be (the trail) described as prescriptive easement. But the trees are just in the route to the rock. Not much to do about a harvest plan except say its a bad judgment on GD management. A few trees in a very public spot.

  5. March 22, 2011 at 7:30 am

    Yeah, the area has been logged before. So have many, if not most, of the areas around here.

  6. Bolithio
    March 22, 2011 at 7:30 am

    lol

    Lets put “quotes” around any thing we don’t believe in; like “information” about logging from “blogs”

    seriously though:

    There are very few trees left in the Trinidad area even close to 100 years old.

    Based on what? Oh nothing? FALSE!

    a grove that holds significance for many people who visit the rock and the forest.

    Ya it holds significance to them to, being that they are their trees. Weird.

  7. jackdurham
    March 22, 2011 at 8:12 am

    The activists need to be careful here. If they have suggestions on how to improve the logging plan, that’s great. But if they want to stop the logging in this forest, then they’re going to hurt their own cause.

    Why? Because if Green Diamond can’t log on its properties, then the only reasonable course of action is to sell those properties for residential development. The area around Strawberry Rock would then become a low density version of Westhaven, with lots of septic tanks, roads, pit bulls, etc.

    The same could be said of the forest between McKinleyville and Fieldbrook. The best way for us to ruin that forest is to prevent logging.

  8. longwind
    March 22, 2011 at 8:25 am

    Well said, Jack.

    The way to protect specific areas is with specific zoning. Past efforts to zone our entire countryside in order to prevent development between Mactown and Fieldbrook have succeeded in whipping up the whole of rural Humboldt, without accomplishing anything to keep those lands in productive forestry. The lesson may be sinking in.

    The Planning Department is starting to acknowledge the need for geographical rather than ideological zoning. More and more public entities as well as private parties (special interests and stigmatized interests alike) are saying the same thing. The Trinidad area may need this more urgently than McKinleyville.

  9. Joe B
    March 22, 2011 at 8:30 am

    “…a grove that holds significance for many people who visit the rock and the forest.”

    The many people who, by the way, are trespassing onto private property. If they want to hug the trees and be symbolic, let them buy the land or hey; shut the f up!

  10. Plain Jane
    March 22, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Yeah, don’t bitch or they’ll turn Strawberry Rock into another quarry.

  11. March 22, 2011 at 9:05 am

    be careful, green diamond could very well just cut off access, not only trees, to strawberry rock to hikers…

  12. Another amous
    March 22, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Jack Durham makes a good case for community forests. We could have the trees, the wildlife habitat, and selective harvest to pay for it all. It has already been done. It works.

  13. youth advocate
    March 22, 2011 at 9:21 am

    A community forest would be the best for the area around Strawberry Rock. Jack and Long Wind, i imagine most of the protesters are against the clear cut, not logging in general. If the area around Strawberry Rock became a community forest, then logging would still occur, although with an extremely lighter touch.

  14. longwind
    March 22, 2011 at 9:22 am

    The only problem with community forests is the expense of acquiring them. Softer-touch production zoning in recognition of nearby residential areas may (I say may) achieve the same management without the expense of easements or ownership.

    Yes, that might constitute a ‘taking’ of some timber value, at least short-term. But where conflicts increase at urban/rural interfaces this may be recognized as the most cost-effective resolution of all rights in conflict. Those interfaces are a headache that timber operators don’t enjoy dealing with or paying for.

  15. jackdurham
    March 22, 2011 at 9:23 am

    I love the idea of a community forest.

  16. Mitch
    March 22, 2011 at 9:33 am

    One idea that strikes me as intriguing is lease-to-maintain-option-to-buy. That is, if the cost of acquiring land is simply unattainable, it might be possible for a group to negotiate annual payments to Green Diamond in exchange for which they would agree not to do certain types of logging in certain zones, and for which they would offer the group the option of having their payments applied to an eventual purchase price.

    So, pulling numbers out of the air, if a group can’t afford $10 million, perhaps it can raise $100,000 per year, in exchange for which GD would not clear-cut and would offer the group an option to buy for $10 million at any time in the next several years.

  17. Another amous
    March 22, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Jack, if you love the idea, why not promote it? You have the means, with the McK Press at your disposal. Start interviewing Mark Andre and others who’ve made the Arcata Community a success. Start a public conversation where we can work out the details and answer the doubts of the negative nay-sayers. If not now, when? Help make it happen.

  18. Another amous
    March 22, 2011 at 9:41 am

    that should be the Arcata Community Forest.

  19. Steak n Eggs
    March 22, 2011 at 9:42 am

    NIMBYs. Be glad that GDRCO has tolerated the tresspassing for this many years. Just as they seem to do in other areas of their ownership (McKay Tract, McKinleyville, Gas Wells, etc). Make a fucking big deal about it and you ruin it for many others who have been respectively tresspassing for years. Idiots!

  20. youth advocate
    March 22, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Nice idea Mitch, but i bet the funders (state, fed, foundation) and GD would not want to sign a deal unless funding was secured. Why would lets say the State give 100,000 for year one if the remaining years where unfunded?

    It would be great if we created a regional community forest that provided a buffer between residential and industrial TPZ land. Areas around Trinidad, between McKinleyville and Fieldbrook, Eureka (McKay is in the works!) and Fortuna are ideal for public access and truly sustainable/light touch timber harvest.

  21. youth advocate
    March 22, 2011 at 9:45 am

    make that were funded, not where funded.

  22. youth advocate
    March 22, 2011 at 9:47 am

    GD has not other choice but to “tolerate” trespass. Exactly who would patrol the 10000s of acres they own?

  23. tra
    March 22, 2011 at 9:50 am

    I like the idea, Mitch, but I fear that the unintended consequence could be that the timber companies suddenly have a huge incentive to file lots new of timber harvest plans specifically aimed at areas near residential neighborhoods, favorite hiking trails, scenic overlooks, etc., hoping to extract similar rent-to-someday-maybe-own deals from other groups.

  24. Mitch
    March 22, 2011 at 9:52 am

    youth advocate,

    But the flip side is if a group managed to put off clearcutting and negotiate a multi-year agreement with GD, it might gain substantial credibility in the eyes of potential funders of a purchase. It never hurts to start with what seems doable.

  25. March 22, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Hey, don’t get me wrong. I’m not opposed to responsible logging. It’s just that I’ve never seen a “responsible” clearcut. If this was selective light touch logging,I’d have no bitch whatsoever. Clearcuts expose soil to weather and erosion. In the long term, they affect the productivity of the soil that’s left by removing nutrients. It’s not much different than your backyard garden. If you keep harvesting without protecting and fertilizing your soil, your yield will eventually go down. Forests do the same thing on much longer time scales. The forest provides its own fertilizer if we don’t keep taking all of it away. Lighten up, GD, and we’ll all gain, loggers, huggers, and hikers.

  26. Random Guy
    March 22, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Buggy whips. The logging business can go belly up, those guys can hit the skids like the pot growers, environmentalists etc. to whom they wish the same. Better than to let crisis precipitate the change that is coming already because of how fucked up the environment is, thanks to companies like Simpson Timber…er…Green Diamond Resources.

  27. Anonymous
    March 22, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Trinidad nanny-goats are funny. Good luck but have low expectations.

  28. Austin
    March 22, 2011 at 11:28 am

    short rotations and plantation forestry are bad for the forest and bad for the local economy. when are we going to have a real timber industry in this county instead of gigantic self-interested money sucking corporations? community forests all around the interface with the towns would be a huge step in the right direction. it would be a great investment in the long run and an opportunity to have forestry that people can be proud of instead of sickened by (just zoom out on the map on the blog and see all the clearcuts to the east!). Imagine how cool it would be if part of our social services could be supported by timber revenue from community owned forest. i heard that in Canada community forests and stewardship agreements have been really successful.

  29. Steak n Eggs
    March 22, 2011 at 11:43 am

    Austin, how about you and Random Guy buy some land and hire A-Nony-Mouse to management your timber for you! There will be plenty of help from all of the forestry experts here at Heraldoville. The skies the limit!

    You can show those stupid corporations how its really done!

    Hurry-up and get those grant applications in!

    You clowns are too funny!

  30. March 22, 2011 at 12:24 pm

    S&N, you’d obviously opt for a Strip Joint, denuding the earth for your short-term profit. Wonder why the planet’s all f***ed up? Ask Steak & Eggs. He’ll show us how it’s done!

  31. March 22, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Seems to that Arcata is setting us all a good example. You don’t suppose that Mark Lovelace, that much villified Coastal Commission candidate, had anything to do with the success of the Arcata Community Forest, do you? What a surprise! (I’m getting cynical?!!)

  32. Steak n Eggs
    March 22, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Try giving the other Mark credit(Andre). He was the one who wrote the NTMP and actually manages the forest.

  33. Reinventing The Wheel
    March 22, 2011 at 12:46 pm

    Steak n Eggs says:
    March 22, 2011 at 11:43 am

    You can show those stupid corporations how its really done!
    Hurry-up and get those grant applications in!
    You clowns are too funny!

    RESPONSE:

    Alas, that’s how it’s REALLY done “clown”!

    Big timber has benefited for years enlisting their opponents to lobby for alternatives to strategically threatened, long-discredited, disastrous harvesting plans. They’re more than happy to take state, federal, and NGO funds for NOT clear-cutting.

    GD knows damn-well the best scenario for profitable subdivisions is decades away, if ever. And every decade that passes makes it less likely as the public begins to understand what they have to pay to subsidize it.

    GD even gave up on similar plans in Cutten where there’s already access to infrastructure, albeit, beyond capacity. Ain’t gonna happen…

    If they’re not offered public subsidies, they’ll rip out what they wish…environment and habitat be damned. It’s hard to believe they can still do this…

    30 years ago timber’s PR hacks swayed public opinion by threatening that if they lost their right to clear-cut, burn slash, and dump diesel-based herbicides… mom and pop would lose their property rights to remove a few trees, to dump their motor oil or use their burn barrels!

    One needn’t travel to Washington D.C. to understand public-subsidized corporate tyranny.

  34. oogle earth
    March 22, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    Bolithio –

    Re:There are very few trees left in the Trinidad area even close to 100 years old. Based on what?

    based on google maps, id say its pretty obvious. especially if yr talking about green diamond timberland by trinidad.

  35. youth advocate
    March 22, 2011 at 3:10 pm

    Yes Mark Lovelace was responsible for acquiring the Sunny Brae Forest and Mark Andre is responsible for the management of the Arcata Community Forest and most recent CF acquisitions.

    Green Diamond is not the same as Pacific Lumber. PL practiced liquidation logging to please their share holders. GD despite their clear cuts and creating a massive patchwork (refer to Google earth) on the landscape, have done some really good things. Just this year they are working on a conservation easement with The Trust for Public Land and on creating a community forest on the McKay Tract. Also, they plan to sell around 47k acres to the Yurok tribe. PL would have never done that. Certainly GD should improve their logging practices, but let’s recognize that they are trying to work with the community.

  36. BonitAApplebum
    March 22, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    These damn environmentalists are just lucky that GD doesn’t booby trap the trail to Strawberry Rock or set snipers up to shoot those who trespass. The only thing a bunch of trees is good for is cutting them down for lumber or clearing it out for a housing tract. These idiot environmentalists probably want to turn the area into a crying circle. Thanks for ruining it for everyone jerks! GD owns private property and they get the final say about what they want to do with it. You environmentalists own nothing and should be sent to an insane asylum for questioning a stellar corporation like GD. If it weren’t for GD, there wouldn’t be any atrazine in our rivers and streams, who else would be able to put it there at such a cheap cost? Idiot tree huggers, what are you contributing?!

  37. Another amous
    March 22, 2011 at 7:15 pm

    Advocate, be truthful. Lovelace was PARTLY responsible for the ACF. Credit where due, ALL around.

  38. Oldphart
    March 22, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    So if Green Diamond employees want to walk into your yard and gawk about and hang out for awhile, its cool with you. Oh yeah, they might smoke some dope and leave some trash, but what is wrong with you to deny them the right to do whatever they want?

  39. BonitAApplebum
    March 22, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    That’s right Oldphart! All the trespassers on Green Diamond land should be shot on sight! Seriously, would it be that expensive to hire some snipers to work in shifts? It would offer some job creation. But no, the environmentalists won’t allow that! Hopefully Green Diamond can take over the county board of supervisors and chop down every last tree in Humboldt County and shoot every last damn hippie scum. Am I right people? Come on, say it with me!

  40. March 22, 2011 at 8:09 pm

    There are some good points made here. I don’t like clear cutting either, but we still have forests surrounding Trinidad because they are commercial timber lands. If they sold, it would be broken up into much smaller parcels with houses and roads, etc. There are state and federal rules they must follow in their timber harvests.

    I remember another time not too long ago that the beautiful main trail leading to Strawberry Rock was clear cut and the trail around the back was not there yet. It was really sad, but I have come to accept it and I really appreciate being able to trespass without being hassled and visit the rock. There was a time when they had security guards posted at the frontage road. At least they tolerate all the trespassing that goes on there now.

    If you are concerned, please contact Green Diamond personally to get first hand information about this before going on the attack.

  41. Anonymous
    March 22, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Really, the worst part is that the logs from the clear cut will be shipped to China to be used to make concrete forms.

  42. tra
    March 22, 2011 at 8:40 pm

    I haven’t been up there in a few years. Do they even have a “no trespassing” sign? If there is no sign, it’s not actually considered trespassing and it’s not illegal (unless you’ve been asked to leave and have refused to do so).

    I think in most cases, timber companies don’t much care about people taking a walk on their land (as long as it’s not in the middle of active logging operations, you’re not dumping garbage or junk cars or something like that0. But they pretty much have to put up the “No Trespassing” sign at the gate, because if they don’t, and you’re injured on their land, you might be able to sue them.

  43. Anonymous
    March 22, 2011 at 8:41 pm

    “The same could be said of the forest between McKinleyville and Fieldbrook. The best way for us to ruin that forest is to prevent logging.”

    The best way to ruin the forest is to allow for zone changes and ministerial building permits for residences in our currently forest zoned lands.

  44. Steak n Eggs
    March 22, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    BonitAApplebum, Green Diamond is not a corporation. The company has been privately owned for over 120 years.

    People who live close-by/adjacent to industrial timberlands and bitch about this and that are clueless. They don’t understand how great it is to have a “forest” nearby for walking, riding, hiking, or whatever. Who cares if some is clearcut. Perhaps you would you rather have a bunch of gravel driveways leading to numerous houses in the woods with barking dogs and jackass neighbors driving their jacked up trucks full speed ahead 24-7?

    Enjoy it for what it is and put your narcissism on hold. Or better yet, buy it and grow your own 100 year old trees.

  45. Your Reminder of the Obvious
    March 22, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    1. The trail is completely contained within private land where no trespassing signs are posted on the property lines.
    2. This THP has been in CEQA review for many weeks now and this is the first publicized response to the harvest plan, which closed for public comment YESTERDAY. Nice timing folks.
    3. Strawberry Rock could have been made into an incredible source of rock for commercial use years ago. Any idea why it wasn’t? Perhaps Green Diamond, et al, had the foresight of an unwelcome community response? Rock isn’t cheap, politics are expensive.
    4. The trail to Strawberry Rock can be rebuilt by the community. If anyone doubts that Green Diamond tolerates the daily trespassing just go ask someone who has run into their security guy. Not a fun encounter! Any idea why the bald head guy isn’t sitting at the entrance to the trail with security guards or deputies?!?
    5. You think these clearcuts are bad? You think California forestry practices are harmful? Has anyone been to any other state or country on this planet and observed their respective laws? SERIOUSLY! Humboldt County is responsible for the most insular, narrow minded views when it comes to forestry. Green Diamond is no PALCO. They never have and they never will be. The injustices of the past decades should never be tolerated, but the stance the Trinidad forum is fronting is superficial, ignorant and intolerant. At best it is transparent in its reactionary stance. At worst this tactic is the same used in the ultra-conservative movement that everyone so loathes.

    Answer that and be fashionable.

  46. Anonymous
    March 22, 2011 at 8:56 pm

    corporate forestry or (else) development is a false dichotomy.

    also, i could be wrong, but i think there are such things as privatively held corporations. in the case of GD the family members (30 some) are the only shareholders and they are protected by limited liability etc.

  47. Austin
    March 22, 2011 at 9:24 pm

    it would be unwise to assume that GD ownership means no development.

    does nobody remember GD’s proposal to the planning department a few years ago to rezone some 2000-3000 acres (if someone has the exact number please chime in) of land to residential zonings? as far as i know the proposal didnt get a ton of traction with the planning department.

    a google search finds this reference from an issue of EcoNews “The company has also identified over 2,000 acres in McKinleyville and 565 acres in Westhaven for potential development, as well as 207 acres between Highway 101 and Strawberry Rock.”

  48. BonitAApplebum
    March 22, 2011 at 9:43 pm

    Steak N Eggs, maybe you are right and GD is not a corporation but they should still have the ability to deputize all of their employees so that they can carry guns and shoot trespassers on sight. Of course, you sound like a tree hugging environmentalist who wants to kill jobs and raise the price of gas all to build more mansions for Al Gore. You think people who live by forests do not understand how nice it is for them to be able to walk through a forest? Get real. People around here need to spend a lot less time walking through forests and start going to a job! If people around here had jobs then there would be nobody walking through the forest and crying about it and then we could finally cut them all down, sell the wood and create some jobs. But no, environmentalists would rather cry about polar bears than save the lumber industry.

  49. March 22, 2011 at 10:17 pm

    My afternoon comments were the victim of wordpress technical issues this afternoon. To be continued…

  50. March 22, 2011 at 10:21 pm

    Much of wordpress was down for at least two hours today. Apologies to those who had problems.

  51. Reality Check
    March 23, 2011 at 5:18 am

    Hard to see how you would make progress with the views I am reading in these comments. Fact is in the redwood range there is an opportunity to augment the productivity of these forests and to cut more, not less using techniques that enhance the watersheds, wildlife, diversity, keep more people employed, produce quality wood, and keep the land in forest and in private hands. That is quality selection forestry. What is wrong with that. Don’t understand why the right of center in these comments can’t see the upside to quality selection forestry instead of producing low quantity and low quality in short term clearcuts that may well just be the beginning of the out for a “higher and better use” which is development after liquidation. Lets see the comments after this but I suspect they will continue to react by saying “we should snipe trespassers” and other non-helpful things.

  52. The loggers' solution
    March 23, 2011 at 9:47 am

    “they should still have the ability to deputize all of their employees so that they can carry guns and shoot trespassers on sight.

    Why are these people so stupid? Guns and violence are all they understand. We entrust forest management to these neo cons?

  53. Bolithio
    March 23, 2011 at 10:21 am

    It’s just that I’ve never seen a “responsible” clearcut.

    And what would make it responsible?
    – Limiting its size based on slope?
    – Limiting its timing based on age of the trees and near-by harvests?
    – Adding extra layers of protection to stream zones?
    – Mitigating pre-existing sediment sites from historic era harvests?
    – Planting trees following harvest?

    OR, do you use “quotes” to emphasize that when you say responsible, you really mean: emotionally, you will never accept clear-cuts?

  54. Tree-hugging Wood Chopper
    March 23, 2011 at 11:08 am

    Selective tree harvest is creative compromise. Clear cutting is generally counterproductive. Responsible community access is an attraction and hopefully: “Trinidad Community Forest”, is the intelligent and eventual designation.

  55. March 23, 2011 at 11:20 am

    And everyone and their Mom hikes up there.

    Apparently Green Diamond didn’t do a good job of notifying the public so we had to do it ourselves. The timing was sub-optimal.

    My idea why it wasn’t quarried is there was major public disapproval and Green Diamond decided not to quarry based on foreseeable opposition.

    The trail can be rebuilt, the trees will take 100+ years to re-grow.

    It’s too expensive to guard everywhere people hike on GD land,
    so they only do it in isolated incidents. Remember how they tried to cut off access when they quarried those two smaller rocks by Strawberry? Their blockade didn’t last very long.

    Yes, these clear-cuts are bad.

    Yes, the Ca. Forest Practice rules are failing us.

    Yes, we’ve seen logging in other states and countries that is worse, and some that is far better.

    Agreed that GD is not Palco. They show a greater ability to improve. Whether or not they continue to improve will be seen.

  56. March 23, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Apparently I don’t know how to use blockquotes…

  57. Random Guy
    March 23, 2011 at 11:24 am

    What if Danny Devito went by Dan Devito? nah…

    >>You know, at one time there must’ve been dozens of companies making buggy whips. And I’ll bet the last company around was the one that made the best goddamn buggy whip you ever saw. Now how would you have liked to have been a stockholder in that company? You invested in a business and this business is dead. Let’s have the intelligence, let’s have the decency to sign the death certificate, collect the insurance, and invest in something with a future. “Ah, but we can’t,” goes the prayer. “We can’t because we have responsibility, a responsibility to our employees, to our community. What will happen to them?” I got two words for that: Who cares? Care about them? Why? They didn’t care about you. They sucked you dry. You have no responsibility to them.

  58. Anonymous
    March 23, 2011 at 11:25 am

    it looks kinda artistic anyhow

  59. March 23, 2011 at 11:56 am

    There’s a new photo tour/slide-show of the logging plan and surrounding area on our blog now.

    http://trinidadforest.blogspot.com

    (original comment was replying to “Your Reminder of the Obvious”)

  60. Steak n Eggs
    March 23, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Trinidad Forest Forum…Let me get this straight…you are protesting GDRCO because the clearcutting will negatively impact you’re trespassing experience?

    Good luck with that.

  61. Bolithio
    March 23, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    lol @ Steak

    That, and who doesn’t love a good protest?

  62. Bolithio
    March 23, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    Clear cutting is generally counterproductive.

    Statements like this are generally devoid of any actual understanding of forestry or science.

  63. Anonymous
    March 23, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    nobody said anything about anyone’s trespassing experience. miraculously, i think it has to do with much deeper issues around how forest is managed in general on GD land. i.e. hella clearcuts all over the place and GD having no plans to do anything but continue fiber farm type plantations. regardless of who is walking is who’s woods, id like to know that forests are managed as forests, not like freakin crops of corn. is that SO unreasonable? i wish you luck understanding that GD’s 45 year rotations suck – for the everybody involved, most likely including you. maybe you will find yourself protesting GD someday when the lumber they are producing is so low quality that the market no longer pays a premium for it?

  64. Guy
    March 23, 2011 at 5:01 pm

    So if I wanted to hike up there in the next day or two do you think it’ll be safe to do so?

  65. BonitAApplebum
    March 23, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    Bolithio, exactly, clear cutting is very productive in that it creates jobs, creates lumber and makes way for the other plants to grow that were blocked out by the trees. If it wasn’t for all the stupid environmentalists like Steak N Eggs and The Loggers’ Solution don’t want to hurt the endangered mouse owl or whatever animal they are crying about these days. You could cut down every tree west of the Mississippi and all that would happen is that people would have jobs and the timber industry would rebound. But no, environmentalists want to keep all these trees around so that they can keep growing skyward, hogging all the water and sunshine that other plants need to live. Trees, it’s never enough for them, is it? If all these bleeding heart environmentalists would just move to France and drink their wine they love so much, then maybe we could get down to business in this country. After we chop all the forests down the mountains are next on the docket. They have been doing mountaintop removal mining in West Virginia for decades and it hasn’t hurt a thing, just created good American jobs. Even if there isn’t coal in the Trinity Alps or the Kings Range, we could still blow off the tops and mine them for aggregate. Boy would the environmentalists hate that!

  66. Reinventing The Wheel
    March 23, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    Go take a look for yourself at the huge scars caused by rapid runoff from the clear-cuts of 50 years ago.

    Soon, when Chinese tankers cost $10 million to fuel, it will become more cost-effective to selective cut, and retain the resource for local manufacturing.

    When we rely more on our local environment, we’ll gain renewed respect for its condition.

  67. March 23, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    This is a protest, but it’s more of a general call to action.It would be great if folks who wish to defend this forest organize with like-minded friends and associates to civilly oppose this the best way they see fit. Let’s get viral!

    Guy, The logging will not happen this week if that helps answer your question.

  68. thinking outside the FPRs
    March 23, 2011 at 8:27 pm

    Limiting its timing based on age of the trees and near-by harvests?

    yeah, to MORE THAN 5 YEARS. your forest practice rules are a joke.

    minimum rotation age for clearcuts should be 120 years. (think about it before you freak out. means half the trees are less than 60). thats how they do it in some other, more responsible countries.

  69. Bolithio
    March 23, 2011 at 8:29 pm

    Some of you continue to miss the target. The pro-timber argument is not about “those damn enviro’s”. Its not about “whats better, cc vrs selection”. Are there people who blurt out ignorance? Yes. But there are more layers to this onion.

    There is a framework of regulation in timber. Try to excuse yourselves from judge and jury for just one moment. These rules and processes allow landowners to do certain things. One of them is clearcut. Until there is a policy shift, this option will remain. Currently the best available science indicates that the combination of mitigation required – on a site specific basis – effectively prevents adverse impacts.

    NO ONE is denying the effects of previous era’s of resource extraction. Any forester (that is credible) will confirm the vast impacts of the historic logging entries. Modern logging and forestry planning is barley comparable to the old practices.

    There is an array of cutting regimes that goes way beyond simply clear cut and selection. Again, its not black and white. The discussion of sustainability is a long term equation – that doesn’t favor any logging method. The key lies in the implementation of the entire life of the cycle.

    You may not like logging. Most likly, you wish all lands looked like state parks. That would be nice. We could lobby for that policy shift – like groups like EPIC do. But how good would that be for our third world counterparts? Dont forget; CA is the most regulated logging industry in the world. Fortunately for us, and them, the application of scientific analysis prevails in policy decisions.

  70. random quote
    March 23, 2011 at 8:30 pm

    By the eleventh century a French law had been decreed which said that “the public highways and byways, running water and springs, meadows and pastures, forests, heaths and rocks are not to be held by Lords; nor are they to be maintained in any other ways than that their people may always be able to use them.”

  71. Bolithio
    March 23, 2011 at 8:32 pm

    minimum rotation age for clearcuts should be 120 years.

    Why?

    thats how they do it in some other, more responsible countries.

    Which countries? A link with a reference would be handy.

  72. i like logging, actually.
    March 23, 2011 at 8:55 pm

    re: “The key lies in the implementation of the entire life of the cycle”

    exactly. and 45 year rotations are tragically short cycle.

    btw, if industrial timberlands didnt look like they had mange the demand for parks might not be so high.

  73. Steak n Eggs
    March 24, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Trinidad Forest Forum…”Lets get viral”. You sound like a 9th grader. But seriously, the assertion that a clearcut in itself is “scar” or a “significant impact” demonstrates emotion rather than logic.

  74. March 24, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Viral messaging is a modern day practice that you might not be familiar with, much like selection/restoration forestry. Also, you might want to add some fruit and veggies into your diet.

  75. Steak n Eggs
    March 24, 2011 at 10:57 am

    Haha…Noted! Good one.

  76. April 19, 2011 at 10:50 pm

    So how about we don’t clear cut, and instead we use sustainable forestry practices. We create just as many jobs, except they aren’t short term. We protect the soil and the watershed. We keep the tourists happy (and don’t forget, tourists create jobs too). We provide habitat. And we actually create more valuable trees and increase board feet. Plus, FSC wood gets a premium. Clear cutting is just stupid.

  77. Speaker
    May 18, 2011 at 12:04 pm

    If the community loves this section of land as much as I have seen over the course of these discussions, then there should be an option for them to buy the section from Green Diamond. From my personal experiences talking with the community, frighteningly few people are aware of this proposal (and should be). Furthermore, upon learning, most emit a wide range of passionate over it.
    This issue is obviously complex, a consistent side-effect of economics intruding upon ecosystems. That said however, it is an undeniably precarious situation for Green Diamond who has thankfully allowed trespassers to appreciate the elevating experience of that hike, as anyone harmed in doing so has legal justifications to sue.
    In the option of allowing the community to purchase this section, it would eliminate the financial risk for GD at the same time protect the integrity of a very loved land. That piece is no more deserving of awe than any other, just as no tree or rock is more deserving of eradication and pollution than any other. However, that slice of earth has been gifted with natural features that induce appreciation and a conscientiousness that is greatly lacking and desperately needed in this insensitive world. To abduct that experience is not only immoral, it is an undisguised offense against the most basic privilege of every living creature on this planet. This may seem an emotional statement to make, and I agree with absolutely no reservations in admitting that truth. I will end with a gentle reminder that logic void of compassion has repeatedly proven to be short-sighted, providing embarrassingly short-lived profits. Anyone who needs documentation of that claim, a brief course in ANY history should do the trick.
    Green Diamond is obviously well aware of this controversy. I give my personal appreciation for the joy of my experiences at Strawberry Rock. I would like to lend myself to the possibility of preserving that for others in the future.

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