Home > Economy, Eureka California > Eureka sales tax goes up Friday

Eureka sales tax goes up Friday

Sales tax in Eureka will raise half a percentage point to 9% starting Friday.

More than 54% of Eureka voters approved ballot Measure O in the November 2010 election. The supplemental transaction and use tax, which supporters said was necessary to fund police and fire services, medical response, street maintenance, environmental programs, zoo, parks and recreation.  The tax hike will expire after 5 years.

The passage of the measure requires a citizen’s oversight committee to conduct annual audits of all expenditures generated by the tax to ensure fiscal accountability and public participation.

It will be fun to watch how much goes to health and safety and how much goes to the zoo.

  1. Goldie
    March 31, 2011 at 8:23 pm

    As much as I enjoy a good otter pool it is my understanding that measure O monies are to go to public safety. If I see 1 otter thriving due to my increase in taxes, well I am just not sure what I will do, as it is not the otters I am calling liars and cheats and accusing of destroying the living standard of Eureka in a systematic way.

  2. March 31, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    I seem to remember reports of the Tyson-Brady Bunch saying the police are fully funded and downplaying any threat to police funds because of budget problems. Jager was willing to cut police and fire, but not the zoo (see link above). People should keep an eye on this.

  3. Pat Bitton
    March 31, 2011 at 8:53 pm

    As a member of the Zoo Foundation board, I feel compelled to reiterate that there will be an oversight committee whose mandate is to ensure the fair distribution of funds. The Zoo Foundation board is actively working with the City and the County to identify and implement additional sources of funding for the Zoo so that the entire financial burden of operating the Zoo does not fall on the City of Eureka. We have no desire either to see public safety cut, but we are also aware that the more school funding is cut, the more schools will look to the Zoo to provide natural sciences education. Last year, more than 1600 students visited the zoo on school field trips, and our summer camps served almost 200 children aged 5-12. Anyone can request a copy of the Foundation’s annual report, which details the source and use of all our funds.

  4. Anonymous
    March 31, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    “Last year, more than 1600 students visited the zoo on school field trips, and our summer camps served almost 200 children aged 5-12.”

    I really love the zoo but these are dismal numbers if you are making the case that the zoo is an educational supplement. 4hrs x 1600 students is 6400 hours of education for $800,000. You would educate more kids by using that money to hire more (or not lay off) some full time science teachers.

  5. SNaFU
    March 31, 2011 at 9:10 pm

    “The tax hike will expire after 5 years.”
    Yeah right!

  6. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    March 31, 2011 at 9:45 pm

    Now,

    encourage and support federal officials (elected officials hurting for extra revenues won’t be encouraged, obviously) in lowering the income tax on labor by 1/2% too if were gonna shift over to an all sales tax collection system. Fair is fair :-).

    Jeffrey Lytle
    McKinleyville – 5th District

  7. Anonymous
    March 31, 2011 at 10:01 pm

    Using education funding cuts to rationalize zoo funding is really a stretch. If science education now consists of a couple of zoo field trips then we need to stop funding the zoo and hire more science teachers.

  8. Anonymous
    March 31, 2011 at 10:04 pm

    Were all 1600 students from Eureka (the tax payers who fund the zoo)?

  9. Pat Bitton
    March 31, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    I’d be happy to send any of you a copy of the Foundation’s annual report. I’m sure the city of Eureka can furnish you with details of how their funds are spent in operating the zoo. I was not claiming that education is the only justification for the Zoo’s existence. It’s also a significant tourist attraction, one of the few remaining safe places for families with small children to spend time outdoors, an active participant in several breeding programs to ensure the survival of endangered species … But sadly I suspect nothing I say will change the minds of those people who don’t wish to see a Zoo here at all. Perhaps instead you might one day visit the Zoo with a young child and experience it through their eyes.

  10. Anonymous
    March 31, 2011 at 10:23 pm

    I did visit the zoo with my young children. It was OK, but I didn’t view it as “one of the few remaining safe places for families”. We go to the beaches, redwoods, parks, libraries, local festivals, music events, sports events, etc. etc. I feel perfectly safe at all of these places; it’s a big part of the reason we live here. My kids love to read and be outdoors and frankly they were bored after a couple of zoo visits. They also found it a bit cruel to see caged animals.
    I can appreciate your work and time spent helping a non-profit, but when times are tough some luxuries have to go. I view the zoo as a luxury and one that is not essential to the quality of life in this community.

  11. Anonymous
    March 31, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    Don’t get me wrong, I and my kids, love the zoo. But do tourists really go to the zoo? In all my times I have been there I have not met any. I have met many tourists in many places in Humboldt County, just none at the zoo.

    I also have to agree that I feel kinda creeped out by the idea that the zoo is somehow one of the only “safe” places for my family to go. I’m not sure where that statistic comes from.

  12. Owltotem
    March 31, 2011 at 11:20 pm

    Britton 8:53 oversight committee my tail feathers! more puppets.

  13. Owltotem
    March 31, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    one of the few remaining safe places for families with small children to spend time outdoors,

    how about the beach? the woods? the river?

  14. Owltotem
    March 31, 2011 at 11:29 pm

    oh wait

    “The passage of the measure requires a citizen’s oversight committee to conduct annual audits of all expenditures generated by the tax to ensure fiscal accountability and public participation.”

    more puppets. This is a pathetically stacked deck!

  15. Pat Bitton
    March 31, 2011 at 11:42 pm

    The zoo entry kiosk personnel maintain a database of where all visitors come from. This information is available on request from the zoo. The “one of the only safe places for families” quote is from Rex Bohn and supported by police and fire department representatives. There are no off-leash dogs or panhandlers at the zoo …

  16. Pat Bitton
    March 31, 2011 at 11:44 pm

    Oh, and Owltotem, if you’re going to repeat elements of my postings, do try to spell my name correctly. At least I’m not hiding behind a screen name.

  17. Pat Bitton
    March 31, 2011 at 11:45 pm

    apologies for the repeat posting – the site software informed me the posting had been rejected as a duplicate, which it wasn’t – until the site actually posted it as a duplicate …

  18. March 31, 2011 at 11:49 pm

    Duplicate deleted.

  19. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 12:05 am

    So a person asking for money makes a place unsafe for families? Where did you get that fact from? Rex Bohn?

  20. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 12:10 am

    Maybe with the $800,000 for more cops there would be more safe places then just the zoo.

  21. April 1, 2011 at 12:20 am

    Any chance the date of this tax hike might make it smell of prank?

  22. anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 1:30 am

    Teach natural science in a zoo. Now, that’s rich!

  23. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 3:58 am

    Stop pitting the zoo against all other services in Eureka. Larry Glass tried that simplistic frame and Eureka voters didn’t go for it.

  24. Living In Eureka
    April 1, 2011 at 5:30 am

    When it comes to the convoluted relationship the city has with the Chamber of Commerce, local builders, and the zoo foundation, everyone better keep a close eye on the money trail.

    Let’s look at the facts shall we;

    Even though Eureka’s crime rate is through the roof, the police dept. is presently down 10 positions.

    95% of California cities require their Chamber of Commerce to be self-sustaining. Eureka’s budget could not afford street sweeping, but it did find over 100 grand for the Chamber.

    There are many things that draw people from all around the world to our area, the least of which is the zoo. Yet it cost the city close to a million dollars a year!

    Eureka, you get exactly what you deserve when you let this crap go on & don’t step up & speak out!

  25. Ponder z
    April 1, 2011 at 6:58 am

    as with any tax hike, April Fools.

  26. Decline To State
    April 1, 2011 at 7:10 am

    Hey, I talked the talk on Measure O and voted in favor of passing it. Now it’s time to walk the walk. I don’t like it but I went in eyes wide open…so did a majority of the rest of you.

    Thanks for the work you do on the zoo’s behalf Pat and sorry about the animosity you face here. Lot’s of frustrated people. Me, I’d like to keep the zoo and public safety and apparently am willing to pay for it.

  27. Mark Sailors
    April 1, 2011 at 7:28 am

    Not big deal if you are buying a $100 dollar item, but if you are buying a $36,000 car……
    Well you do the math.

  28. Mitch
    April 1, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Do you pay sales tax on a car based on the dealership’s location or on the location at which you live or garage the car? Anyone know?

  29. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 1, 2011 at 8:03 am

    The mediam valueation (nationally) of a newly constructed home in AMerica is approximately just a head above water at $200,000.00. Of that, the IRS and someother federal agency (can’t remember for citation purposes) calculated that of the median sales costs, just over $90,000.00 is paid in various taxes collected on the $200k home.

    “Affordible Housing – Yuck, yuck, giggle, giggle) ONLY AFTER liberals and conservatives get their over-valuated tax collections to vocer over the myriad of political corruptions and deceit…….just another housing valuation scheme that hurts lower incomed folks.

    JL

  30. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 1, 2011 at 8:10 am

    Pat Bitton says:
    March 31, 2011 at 10:13 pm
    I’d be happy to send any of you a copy of the Foundation’s annual report. I’m sure the city of Eureka can furnish you with details of how their funds are spent in operating the zoo. I was not claiming that education is the only justification for the Zoo’s existence. It’s also a significant tourist attraction, one of the few remaining safe places for families with small children to spend time outdoors, an active participant in several breeding programs to ensure the survival of endangered species … But sadly I suspect nothing I say will change the minds of those people who don’t wish to see a Zoo here at all. Perhaps instead you might one day visit the Zoo with a young child and experience it through their eyes.

    Response: Problem is partly that a zoo represents the ongoing struggle of mankind to RECOGNIZE AND STOP dominionizing other species – mankind is an enslaving species, just ask God for enlightenment and validity to mankind’s evils. If your not religious, your still enslaving and being evil, more stockholm syndrome for the monied, monkeyed mankind types! Hey kids, look at the animals in captivity behind those bars, and chain fences having no freedom being stared at by a bunch of poser people, etc… Screw Zoos.

    JL

  31. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 1, 2011 at 8:18 am

    Living In Eureka says:
    April 1, 2011 at 5:30 am
    When it comes to the convoluted relationship the city has with the Chamber of Commerce, local builders, and the zoo foundation, everyone better keep a close eye on the money trail.

    Let’s look at the facts shall we;

    Even though Eureka’s crime rate is through the roof, the police dept. is presently down 10 positions.

    95% of California cities require their Chamber of Commerce to be self-sustaining. Eureka’s budget could not afford street sweeping, but it did find over 100 grand for the Chamber.

    There are many things that draw people from all around the world to our area, the least of which is the zoo. Yet it cost the city close to a million dollars a year!

    Eureka, you get exactly what you deserve when you let this crap go on & don’t step up & speak out!

    Response: Here is the thing about street sweeping – Grant applications for major road infrastructure replacements/rehabilitations. You see, the local public unionized employees commit frauds by intentionally taking actions on other items while disconnecting themself from other responsibilities that can be manipulated by willful negligience in order to be able to fill out a GRANT APPLICATION FOR MAJOR FUNDING to work over the whole road because the willfull allowance of letting silt and debris fill-into the underground drainage system will CLOG and need to be replaced. SO, effectually, what maintenance would have limited ( a higher cost to society) is EXACTLY what willful negligience is trying to accomplish for propping-up over-stated valuations on developmens, public or private.

    Just another scam job the City of Eureka (Humboldt County does this deception too) is up to by pulling off the street-sweeper instead of going the ordinance route to get people to park appropriately so a street-sweeper can do that whole side of the street without doing the Bobby Labonte (NASCAR) swerving.

    JL

  32. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 8:19 am

    Owltotem. You asked why not take the kids to the woods or the river? Dope growers dude. Way too many dope growers. I will stick with the Zoo.

  33. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 1, 2011 at 8:24 am

    8:19 am,

    You should be on the show “Fear Tactics”.

    JL

  34. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 1, 2011 at 8:28 am

    The Zoo 8:19 am is not as real as…. walking a “public trail” bought and paid for and maintained by public tax dollars. Just ask the wife and husband tag team that were attacked by a mountain lion on a publicly paid for “hiking trail”. So, now, do we eliminate all “public hiking trails” cuz zoo’s are safer prisons and not “free range life”? Pissing away tax dollars, over and over again.

    JL

  35. April 1, 2011 at 8:31 am

    So I’m fishing the Trinity River…and I hear a splash and this huge otter darts away from me. Wow, I think; what a beautiful creature. Nature is so wonderful…then he pushed his bearded/mustached head out of the water a started hissing and growling, and making sudden movements to intimidate me. I was intimidated. I realized I was standing right on the edge of the river, level with the water and this otter got bigger by the second. Such hatred in his eyes I have never before encountered.
    And why not? Why does my conceited human perspective expect this wild creature to go all Disney-like and see me as his friend? I’ve destroyed his world, I’ve made it so he can barely survive, and as a final insult; I’m there taking his dinner.
    Now the Zoo, well that’s nothing but a prison for the innocent. One sure lesson it teaches is that humans are thoughtlessly cruel. Cruelty is our tender mercy.

  36. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 1, 2011 at 8:42 am

    Good words Moviedad,

    :-)!

    JL

  37. Pitchfork
    April 1, 2011 at 8:46 am

    “April 1, 2011 at 3:58 am Stop pitting the zoo against all other services in Eureka. Larry Glass tried that simplistic frame…”
    Simplistically TRUE. over $800,000.00 and rising. EPD is ten positions short today… it’s going to get worse. The state is dumping hundred of felons on this county. When the gang members show up at your house be sure and call the Brady bunch!

  38. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 8:49 am

    This is it. This is the last straw. Eureka’s thieving leftists want 9% of my hard earned dollar to feed Bambi.

    Look, I work hard for my money. And I’ll spend it the way I want to spend it. The federal government demands its share, and the state demands its share, and Eureka demands its share, and there’s child support and alimony and at the end of the day I might just as well go on the welfare.

    If I want to sweat to buy Bambi food, I’ll contribute. But I don’t. I want a Miata. First we pay Bambi. Then we pay the damn cops, who get all uppity when I take a Miata off the street. Then we’ve got to pay the teachers, who did nothing but shake their fingers at me all day long for YEARS when I’d take other kids’ milk money. The wimps. Haven’t they ever heard of social darwinism.

    Bambi. I think I’m gonna be sick.

  39. WhatNow
    April 1, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Why not move the Eureka City Council meetings to the zoo?
    A diorama could be constructed with these tax funds within the monkey cage or the lynx exhibit and the zoo supporters on that less than august body would have the opportunity to show exactly how necessary and educational the city zoo really is.
    Jager could take dear departed Bill’s place and sell a few of his watercolors and Rex Bohn should be called upon to come and hose down their cage at the end of each meeting.
    I will not be buying as much as a cup of coffee in that town now-my shopping will go to Arcata or Mckinelyville.

  40. Colorblind Justice
    April 1, 2011 at 9:07 am

    Once again, humanity gets its proverbial teeth kicked in under the guise of saving the environment. Note to self: Shop ANYwhere but from inside Eureka city limits.

  41. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 9:26 am

    I feel sorry for the kids whose parents feel the only “safe” place to take them is a manufactured environment. These must be the same people who go to the “dixieland” in Disneyland rather than New Orleans or the manufactured “Paris” of Las Vegas rather than the real one in France (yes, they do have dogs and people asking for money in the real one – Oh My!).

    One of the great things about Humboldt County kids is that they get a real environmental education and understand both the risks and enjoyment of nature. I don’t take my kids bushwacking through southern Humboldt or to the beach on days with storm waves; but they do learn how to swim safely in the rivers and do take hikes through the state and national parks. They understand the risks of lions and sharks and tsunamis, but they appreciate this as part of nature. They learn not to live in fear but to live with respect and admiration of nature. This translates into responsible happy kids who treat nature as their environment rather than something to exploit and tame.

  42. High Finance
    April 1, 2011 at 9:51 am

    Why are the libs so dead set against the zoo that you continue the false choice of zoo or “public safety” ?

    It is no more zoo vs safety than it is street sweeper vs safety. Meter maids vs public safety, file clerks vs public safety and dog catcher vs public safety are just as false a choice.

    It is all one city budget. How many cops are enough ? To carry this phoney debate further, why don’t we eliminate everything in the city budget and hire 100 new city cops ?

  43. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:00 am

    Mr. Finance,

    There is no false choice. I’m against the zoo and I’m ALSO against law enforcement, which you euphemistically call public safety.

    The cops never did anything for me. Neither did the teachers, my parole officers, that stupid lonely chimp, or Bambi. Cut ’em all off.

    Are you with me, High? Let’s keep our money.

  44. Pat Bitton
    April 1, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Thanks, High Finance and Decline to State.

    Folks, we went through all this will Larry Glass last year, and I’m tired of rehashing the same arguments over and over again. There was an election. People voted. This was the decision. That’s what living in a democracy is all about. Things don’t always go “your way”.

  45. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:03 am

    And firefighters, Mr. Finance. Do you realize most of them spend less than half their paid time actually fighting fires?! I see some room for improvement, if we can get together and privatize.

  46. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Pat Bitton is right. Shut up, people. You lost. Pat will let you know when the next election officially begins, and will assign time slots for speaking out.

  47. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 10:06 am

    Mitch-Sales tax on a vehicle is based on where you live.
    JL and moviedad-Those are some funny posts, April Fool’s, right?

  48. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Right on HiFi.
    It’s not pensions vs military spending; it’s not NPR vs interstate highways; it’s not foreign aid vs tax incentives for oil exploration. It’s all one national budget, how many military personnel and border guards are enough? To carry this phony debate further, why don’t we eliminate everything in the national budget and hire 1,000,000 new border patrol agents and soldiers? Can’t you accept these funding decisions?

  49. April 1, 2011 at 10:17 am

    HiFi, when your house catches fire, call the damn zoo. Maybe the monkeys could piss on it.

    The zoo budget has risen steadily for years. The zoo has made very little effort to control costs, obtaining new and expensive animals, and continuing to put the whole burden on the Eureka city taxpayers. We had a small affordable zoo for many years. Lately it has gotten big ideas about acreditation (very expensive) and exotic animals. I have to ask why the zoo thinks it has first claim on our city’s resources?
    I’m not anti-zoo any more than Larry Glass is. But it MUST be kept in perspective. Fire and police services are far more critical to life in Eureka than the zoo is. Simple fact. So maybe the zoo gets a dribble from Measure O funds but the bulk MUST go to Public Safety. If HiFi thinks the police are ‘overstaffed’ when they’re down 10 positions, I certainly hope he never has to call a cop. Or a medical call. Or a fire call.
    I voted for Measure O because it was ‘SOLD” as a way to support Public Safety, not the zoo.

    As to the Chamber, a little research shows that a HUGE number of smaller local businesses do not belong. The chamber is perceived as the “good ol’ boys” club, mostly large businesses that don’t care about the little guy. This budget year the Chamber got $100,000 PLUS FREE RENT on land worth close to $1,000,000 on Broadway. What did the City get for its money? Want to fund the zoo? There’s the money right there. Just try to wrest it from the Chamber (for tourism?). HA!

    Time to check our priorities!!!

  50. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 10:20 am

    The following zoo arguments fail, so we’re told not to question zoo funding because that is what living in a democracy is all about. Really?

    1. education (“I was not claiming that education is the only justification for the Zoo’s existence.” – PB)

    2. “one of the few remaining safe places for families with small children to spend time outdoors” This one is just plain silly. Many opportunities are listed above. If you think this is one of the “few” places to spend time with small child out of doors, you need to get out more often.

    3. “It’s also a significant tourist attraction”. How many tourists come here specifically for the zoo? Most are visiting family (my aunt from Illinois signed the guest book) or here for other reasons. If the zoo wasn’t here, they’d come anyway.

    Three weak arguments.

  51. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:26 am

    Anonymous,

    Didn’t anyone ever teach you that three weak arguments are as good as one strong one? Teamwork, that’s what my pappy always said!

  52. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Yessirree, good old pappy. One guy on the ignition, one on the alarm, and one looking out. Worked like a charm.

  53. Pat Bitton
    April 1, 2011 at 10:30 am

    I am quite happy for Anonymous (yes, who are you, anyway?) to express his/her viewpoint. I’m quite happy to engage in civilized and reasoned discussions. I was simply pointing out that a democratic voting process took place last November and the voters of Eureka decided to vote for a temporary increase in the Transaction Use Tax. How that additional revenue is spent will be determined by the democratically-elected City Council after taking input from all interested and involved parties. There is a process in place for citizen input, so why not direct your energies there?

  54. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Pappy tried civilized and reasonable discussions, and they still put him in jail, Ms. Bitton. He reminded them that possession is 9/10 of the law. It worked for Eureka’s elite versus the old injuns, but it never worked for pappy. They kept asking for the title, and the basterds never showed no flexibility atall.

  55. Pat Bitton
    April 1, 2011 at 10:38 am

    Maybe all of you have time to indulge in endless circular discussions. I, on the other hand, have a business to run, so if you’ll excuse me, I’m going back to work to earn the money to pay my property taxes next week. When the issue of allocating Measure O funds comes before the City Council, I trust you will all be there to make your viewpoints known in the only forum that, at the end of the day, matters.

  56. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 10:39 am

    Well no need to slam the door on your way out, Ms. Bitton. It makes me glad there are upstanding citizens whose time is too valuable to waste here.

  57. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 10:52 am

    Let’s be clear. People voted to increase the sales tax for public safety and the zoo. Want to bet that one just for safety without the zoo would have passed but one only for zoo funding would have failed? When you give people 2 choices, yes or no, their response doesn’t mean they support 100% of either choice.

  58. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:01 am

    Ms. Jane,

    If a person were to take you seriously, they’d think that having a choice between a Democrat and a Republican in every election doesn’t mean voters 100% support who they vote for.

    What’s wrong with you? Why don’t you move to the Soviet Union. They like people like you there.

  59. Teacher
    April 1, 2011 at 11:11 am

    I find it strange that the same people on this site who normally advocate more social programs, better government services, etc., get upset when their sales tax goes up 1%. I don’t like paying more either. However, these are the times we’re living in. You can’t espouse your liberal ideology and without being willing to sacrifice some things. Saying, the rich should pay more as the answer to everything, doesn’t make you a liberal. It makes you greedy and unwilling to sacrifice anything that belongs to you. Being generous with other people’s money does not make you generous PJ.

  60. Down the Road
    April 1, 2011 at 11:17 am

    If the zoo officials will recall that most of the
    propaganda before the election on measure O was for
    public safety. The very small print included the
    zoo and other amenities. The Chamber is simple a
    mechanism for the good old boys. I watched Hockaday
    lie to Atkins when asked if the Chamber served
    all the businesses in town. He said yes, and that
    is crap. The zoo in itself is very amateurish and
    a petting zoo would be fine and much less expensive.
    I believe the city pays over $700,000 a year for a
    bunch of grown-ups to pretend they are contributing
    something educational when in fact, it is the closest
    they can get for a social life.

  61. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Nobody outside my corporate headquarters listens to my cost-savings ideas despite there having made my outfit a leader in its field. I feel an obligation to share them anyway.

    The zoo does not need exotic animals. If the new city councilmembers would simply promise to spend some time behind the zoo’s bars, they’d become a true tourist attraction in no time and would get the city substantial attention and heavy hotel bookings.

    Failing that, they could at least do Eureka the courtesy of finding some other bars to sit behind.

    And, to expand on my earlier comment, it is time for Eureka to stop wasting money on fire protection. Fire protection should be fee-for-service and opened to competition. Firefighters should work in nearby retail outlets until a contracted fire actually takes place; it would take them no longer than five minutes to get to the station from which their trucks can depart. Regulators can check records annually to make sure firefighting operations don’t allow more than five minute delays. That will provide adequate protection against sub-par performance by contractors.

    If a fire breaks out near the zoo, the city council will be available and should be the first responders. Government in action!

    It is out-of-the-box thinking like this that explains why I’m rich like High Finance and Mr. Marina Center, and the rest of you are poor little nothings.

  62. Pat Bitton
    April 1, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Thanks, Teacher, for a voice of sanity in a wilderness of rant. (I have to wonder whether this blog is the closest some folks here can get to a social life).

  63. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 11:27 am

    Sure, Anonymush. That’s why any politician declaring he has a mandate because he was elected is so nonsensical. It was politicians who decided what to put on the ballot. If they had included funds for homeless instead of the zoo, it may have also passed.

    Teacher, you are so deficient in comprehending my posts that I wish you would just do me the favor of ignoring my posts so I don’t have to be rude to you by either responding truthfully or ignoring you. I am not complaining about paying an additional sales tax. I was merely stating the obvious, that everyone who voted for the tax increase isn’t necessarily happy they are providing tax dollars to the zoo when services to humans are being neglected. They weren’t allowed to pick between the choices they want to fund.

  64. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 11:28 am

    “You can’t espouse your” conservative “ideology [and] without being willing to sacrifice some things” – like an unnecessary zoo or subsidized Chamber of Commerce.

    I will give you that HiFi’s 9:51 post sounds very liberal; I wish he had the same attitude with other budgets, such as the federal one.

    Seems like we have some fair-weather Tea Party members: “don’t question the zoo, I take my grand kids there. Don’t question the CC, my neighbor’s a member.”

  65. Reinventing The Wheel
    April 1, 2011 at 11:29 am

    It wasn’t that long ago that police walked a beat in the neighborhoods of most U.S. cities, back when your home was as safe as the zoo.

  66. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 11:30 am

    And for the record, Teacher started right in insulting people who don’t share her opinions.

  67. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 11:31 am

    As did Pat Bitton in both her implication that she is the only one who works for a living and her snotty little social life comment. Now how long until they are whining they are being insulted?

  68. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Ms. Bitton,

    Welcome back. Has your business gone under, or is this your lunch break? Personally, I don’t take one. Can’t afford the time — time is money! I just eat a slice of whole-wheat organic toast at my desk while listening to one of my nothing-underlings report on how my investments are doing. They’re doing quite well, not that it’s any of your business.

  69. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:39 am

    You know the best thing about sales taxes? Everybody pays equally, and that’s what America should be about: equality.

    Just because I have millions doesn’t mean the government has any right to charge me a higher percentage on my purchases than it charges a single mom on welfare. Go down that route and in no time you have communism, with tax rates on the wealthy like they were under that basterd Richard Nixon!

    No, I think it’s best to tax everyone equally. But 9% is way too high. I think 1% sounds about right. I don’t like it, but like today’s national leadership, I understand the need for reasonableness and compromise.

    All must share the burden, that’s what pappy said.

  70. Teacher
    April 1, 2011 at 11:42 am

    I did not insult anyone PJ. I said you (not you particulary) are greedy if you believe in funding social programs and yet you are unwilling to pay for the said programs.
    I think it definitely applies to you, PJ, and many on this site but I did not mean it as an insult. It was a genuine insight that I felt the needed to share with my esteemed bloggers.

  71. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Plain Jane,

    You’ve spoken twice now and I’m absolutely certain you’ve used up the words Ms. Bitton has allotted for your use. Shut up. You sound like one of those people who are wrong.

  72. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:43 am

    And “Teacher”,

    Yeah. Sure.

  73. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 11:47 am

    “Teacher” says: “if you believe in funding social programs and yet you are unwilling to pay for the said programs.”

    I agree, but I don’t view the zoo or the Chamber as “social programs”. So what’s your point?

  74. Teacher
    April 1, 2011 at 11:48 am

    Anonymush, why are you on this site. Clearly it’s not for intelligent conversation.

    P.S. Punctuation goes inside the quotation marks next time.

  75. High Finance
    April 1, 2011 at 11:49 am

    So you anti zoo zealots are also against the city parks ? Also against the adult and child rec leagues if they cost any money ? Against anything that costs money except police & fire ?

    There are things that improve the quality of people’s lives. Most people like to get out & do things and not just sit behind their computers like anti-social hermits and post junk.

    Mouse, you sound like a miser and a shut in.

  76. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 11:49 am

    I hope you are more convincing as a teacher than you are a blog poster, Teacher. Your message was crystal clear and directed specifically at me, even though I had only made one post that didn’t have anything to do with paying more taxes or even complaining about where they were being spent. I will no longer read or respond to your posts since you have demonstrated not only that you aren’t very bright, but you also lack self-awareness and / or honesty.

  77. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:49 am

    Whats punctuation teacher

  78. Teacher
    April 1, 2011 at 11:50 am

    The voters agreed to fund the program so, unfortunately for you 11:47, it gets funded. I didn’t vote on the matter because I do not live in city limits. Blame the voters or the way the proposition was written.

  79. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 11:57 am

    I’ve had my staff make enquiries so that I might learn this new word, “punctuation.” The rules for punctuation might be a tad more complex than you’ve thought:

    http://grammar.ccc.commnet.edu/grammar/marks/quotation.htm

    Regardless, or is that irregardless, if you really are a teacher, I pity your students. Nothing can kill someone’s interest in language more quickly than a bad teacher who thinks rules must never be broken.

  80. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    My staff also printed this item for me from the Wikipedia. I’ve asked them to paste it here:

    Negative
    The effect of using scare quotes is often similar to prepending a skeptical modifier such as so-called or alleged to label the quoted word or phrase, to indicate scorn, sarcasm, or irony.[7] Scare quotes may be used to express disagreement with the original speaker’s intended meaning without actually establishing grounds for disagreement or disdain, or without even explicitly acknowledging it. In this type of usage, they are sometimes called “sneer quotes”.
    Examples:
    Liberal: We’ve heard about these conservatives and their tax “relief”.
    Conservative: The liberals have proposed yet another form of “common-sense” gun control.
    As political analyst Jonathan Chait writes in The New Republic, “The scare quote is the perfect device for making an insinuation without proving it, or even necessarily making clear what you’re insinuating.”[8]

  81. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    As someone who occasionally visits the zoo with an elementary school-aged child, one thing I have noticed consistently is that not only the child I am with, but almost every other child, is primarily interested in the barnyard where they can interact with animals. Since most children have access to TV and the internet where they can see any animal they want, filmed over long periods so they can observe how they actually live and usually with at least docent-type voice-over for explanation, it’s no wonder that they have so little interest in seeing them in such an unnatural environment, in cages. Buying and imprisoning even more exotic animals in a tiny vanity zoo makes no sense today from any standpoint.

  82. April 1, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    HiFi, that $700,000/year for the zoo could fund an awful lot of parks and recreational programs. I have NO beef with the zoo except that it refuses to find other significant funding sources and relies primarily of feeding at the Eureka taxpayers’ teat. There doesn’t seem to be any concept of ‘scale’. The presumption is that the funding trough is bottomless.
    So my beef isn’t with the zoo, as such. It’s with the way it is being funded and at who’s expense.

    Again I say, Measure O was SOLD as a funding mechanism to MAINTAIN responsible levels of police and fire protection. When Anonymush above says we should ‘privatize fire protection’, I know he’s never experienced a fire. I can see him/her now on the sidewalk haggling about price. Nice way to take out the whole city block, eh?

    By the way, HiFi, I would bet real money that I spend way more time outside, both working and recreating, than you do.

  83. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    Unless it’s the zoo stench that is missed by watching videos of them rather than in real time.

  84. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Anonymush is mostly satire, A-Nony-Mouse.

  85. Cut em down
    April 1, 2011 at 1:00 pm

    People grow up looking at the forests on the internet, TV and movies so much they have no interest in going and recreating in them.

    So who needs them, cut em down.

  86. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    I am not mostly satire, Ms. Jane, and I’ll thank you for not speaking on my behalf.

    Private fire protection companies worked fantastically in London until the Great Fire. Then government saw its opportunity to stick its nose under the tent. Things haven’t been the same since, and municipalities worldwide pay grown men to sit around much of the time, when they could be doing productive new economy work.

    Do you have any idea how long it takes to get served at the Ingomar Club these days? Firefighters not actually fighting fires could be doing double duty waiting on Ingomar Club tables and, at the least, earning some money for Eureka.

    People should either contract in advance for fire protection, or they should be prepared to pay on the spot if they have an unanticipated fire. We need more personal responsibility in this country.

  87. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    An absurd analogy, Cut em down.

  88. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 1:14 pm

    Sorry, Anonymush. Keep on speaking power to truth! :D

  89. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 1:15 pm

    And, critically, there should be an apostrophe before the “em” in “cut em down.” Glad to help.

  90. Cut em down
    April 1, 2011 at 2:53 pm

    If you are all about satire Anonymushy, then you are only guilty of dumb humor. If you are for real then you are just plain stupid.

  91. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 2:56 pm

    Stupid is as stupid does. Your still missing your apostrophe.

  92. April 1, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    I don’t like being a person who is “against” the zoo. I guess it’s because the animals are healthy, and yet they’re stuck there that I say they are like prisons.
    Maybe if the zoo had animals that were in rehabilitation with the future prospect of being reintroduced into the wild, it wouldn’t feel like such bad Karma.
    It’s not the money. Bring on the zoos, the parks, the theaters, the public pools…all you need do is cut military spending by half and we have enough money for everyone’s personal preference.

  93. Mitch
    April 1, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    A petting zoo sounds wonderful.

    I don’t know what the existing zoo is like, but I’m sure people know that many, many people now oppose zoos, especially small zoos, as cruel. Eureka’s may be an exception, but I don’t know.

    I do think it’s mildly ridiculous to claim that people support the zoo because they voted for “public safety and the zoo.”

    But mildly ridiculous is always better than completely ridiculous, and most of politics these days is completely ridiculous. Birth certificate, anyone?

  94. skippy
    April 1, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Sorry to break into the discussion. It’ll be just a moment.

    That was a good and useful link at 11:57, an unusually nice find, a pearl found amongst sow’s ears. The home page of that unique reference, Guide to Grammar and Writing, was happily added to my favorites. Thank you. Now I’m wondering who Anonymush is. Someone we know? This all sounds too familiar, yours truly has seen this sort of wordsmithing work and reference before. Hmmm…

    Well, no matter, back to the discussion and cagey spat. Yours truly hopes he doesn’t have to warm up the ‘Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch’ piece from the archives. Carry on.

  95. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 4:17 pm

    Shut it, skippy.

  96. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 5:35 pm

  97. High Finance
    April 1, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Mouse 12.33pm. Measure O was NOT sold as just a fire and police issue but for all city services. Maybe you do spend more time outside as I work for a living, but I tend to doubt it as your view seems extremely narrow & closed on this issue.

    Mush, 2.56pm. Before you call anybody else stupid you should learn how to use “you’re” and “your” correctly.

    Moviedad, 3.31pm. You have watched far too many Walt Disney movies growing up. Animals don’t think like people. In the wild that deer or otter you think is happy living in paradise is actually looking for food 24/7. They are in constant danger of dying a horrible death by starvation or being eaten alive by predators. At least in the zoo they are safe & well fed. Do you own a dog or cat or any other pet ?

    Skippy, 4.12pm. It doesn’t matter who Mush is, he is a troll only here to get his rocks off by trying to get people riled up.

  98. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Mr. Finance,

    As always, you’re (!) absolutely correct.

    Anonymush, hanging his or her head in shame at his or her obvious error.

    I will be firing someone over this.

  99. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 5:51 pm

    Yeah, that’s probably why Bill the Chimpanzee was so happy, HiFi.

  100. Anonymush
    April 1, 2011 at 6:21 pm

    Ms. Jane,

    I knew Bill the Chimp. Bill the Chimp was a good friend of mine.

    Bill the Chimp couldn’t have been happier at the Eureka Zoo, and all it takes is the slightest bit of empathy or understanding to see why.

    There is simply nothing better than living as the only member of your species for several hundred miles, while doting children stare at you. Wake up and think about it for a moment, won’t you?

    Imagine, for example, that you’re a mogul. Let’s say you’re (!) Mr. Finance, for example, a high class gentleman.

    You’re kidnapped and forced to join a circus run by weird aliens. Perhaps the aliens kill your parents. The circus comes through Eureka, and all the kiddies raise money to buy you!

    The aliens in Eureka watch you, the only member of your class in the entire city, and when you throw your feces at them they think it’s adorable!

    Personally, I can’t imagine a more satisfying life. No danger of being eaten by predators at all. No need to look for food, ever. It’s like a guaranteed return in the stock market, in exchange for nothing more than having had your parents killed and being ripped from your family. Sounds like a trade you and I can appreciate, Mr. Finance.

  101. Walt
    April 1, 2011 at 6:31 pm

    Do chimps throw shit at each other in the wild? Or only spectators?

  102. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 6:48 pm

    When I was a small child, Bill didn’t throw anything at anyone. Years of teasing and having things thrown at him and lack of companionship of his own kind made him crazy.

  103. WhatNow
    April 1, 2011 at 6:52 pm

    “A-Nony-Mouse says:
    April 1, 2011 at 10:17 am
    HiFi, when your house catches fire, call the damn zoo. Maybe the monkeys could piss on it.”
    ******************************************************
    Everyone here in the office did the wave when this was read out loud!
    Thanks “A-Nony-Mouse”!
    Certainly deserving of a Best Of Heraldo award.
    ******************************************************

    “High Finance says:
    April 1, 2011 at 5:43 pm
    Mouse 12.33pm. ……. your view seems extremely narrow & closed on this issue.”
    ******************************************************
    Classic case study in pure projection.
    ******************************************************”Mush, 2.56pm. Before you call anybody else stupid you should learn how to use “you’re” and “your” correctly.”
    ******************************************************
    Classic example of overcompensating for an inferirority complex.
    Perhaps HiFi’s wife is still relying on battery powered satisfaction instead of his settling for his microscopic wanger.
    ******************************************************
    “Moviedad, 3.31pm. You have watched far too many Walt Disney movies growing up. Animals don’t think like people. In the wild that deer or otter you think is happy living in paradise is actually looking for food 24/7. They are in constant danger of dying a horrible death by starvation or being eaten alive by predators. At least in the zoo they are safe & well fed.”
    ******************************************************
    Evidently, things are so slow at the real estate management office HiFi has time to become an expert on animal behavior or is using his telekinetic powers to communicate with the animals.
    Personally, I believe he’s just blowing it out his ass.
    ******************************************************
    “Skippy, 4.12pm. It doesn’t matter who Mush is, he is a troll only here to get his rocks off by trying to get people riled up.”
    ******************************************************
    And we can all look forward to more well reasoned thoughtful observations and acutely researched insights from HiFi,all delivered in a polite,respectful and diplomatic manner?
    ******************************************************
    Just check-out Lost Coast brewery after 5P.M., look for the braying jackass with the hole in the middle hair cut,glistening bald spot and ridiculously pompous attitude,introduce yourself and ask him if he means this horseshit of if he’s just “joshin'”.

  104. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 6:59 pm

    Personally, I’d rather be eaten by a mountain lion after starving nearly to death than spend my entire life in prison.

  105. skippy
    April 1, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    ‘Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.’

    Private fire departments in London may have worked well but not so much in New York in the 1840s. The competition of private fire companies led to arsons of others’ clients and skullduggery comparable to early organized crime efforts. So what can we do?

    Privatize the Postal System? Why Not? Let FedEx and UPS duke it out with Tommy guns– settling differences with a little old fashioned flair from Don Vito or the Tattaglias. What’s a little gunplay, anyway? Privatize roads? We like toll roads! Stop, scramble for a few bills, and don’t forget to duck. Don’t let what happened to Sonny happen to you. Why not privatize water? Count your lucky leaky amoebas and Fredo’s Quality Assurance Company it’s even piped to your house, mope. Sewage? That should be treated like game of high stakes poker with Luca Brasi, believing a royal flush always beats a full house unless you haven’t paid a litle extra, you palooka, you. What about the police? They sit around a lot on the dole playing cards. Heck, throw in the DA, too. We all love payoffs! Teetering the scales of justice! It just wobbles a bit in one direction, that’s all. Let’s face it, Bucko, government employees have been slacking far too much for too long– now it’s time for them to pay their fair share and sink, swim,… or swimming with the fishes. It’s all good. No worries.

    “Don Fanucci: Young man, I hear you and your friends are stealing goods. But you don’t even send a dress to my house. No respect! You know I’ve got three daughters. This is my neighborhood. You and your friends should show me some respect. You should let me wet my beak a little. I hear you and your friends cleared $600 each. Give me $200 each, for your own protection. And I’ll forget the insult. You young punks have to learn to respect a man like me! Otherwise the cops will come to your house. And your family will be ruined. Of course, if I’m wrong about how much you stole, I’ll take a little less. And by less, I only mean – a hundred bucks less. Now don’t refuse me. Understand, paisan? Understand, paisan?… Tell your friends I don’t want a lot. Just enough to wet my beak. Don’t be afraid to tell them!”

    Leave the gun. Take the cannoli.

    you’re still missing the apostrophe.

  106. WhatNow
    April 1, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    Skippy,
    Richard Nixon privatized the postal system during his first term.
    Twive daily delivery M-F, and once daily on Saturday went the way of the three cent stamp.
    The bureau of Indian Affairs was privatized in the 19th century and lead to an acceleration of Indian uprisings, embezzelement and scandal.
    The Federal Prison system was outsourced to a Quaker dominated organization in the 19th century where the philosophy od isolatoion and retribution were so deeply embedded it’s still functioning in much the same way.Rehabilitation is only given lip service.
    The U.S. monetary system was privatized in 1913 and anyone who thinks it has worked-out well is either woefully unaware,involved in lkooting the national treausry, or incapable of rational thought.
    Currently, The department of Energy spends over 90% of it’s budget to insure Nucelar Reactors and Assure the U.S. citizenry that “nothing can go wrong…go wrong…go wrong…go wrong….”
    The “Free Market” propoganda spread by the supply siders since 1978 has proven itself farcical at best and mailgnant in reality.
    The corporate system we currently live with is sickeningly reminiscent of Benito Mussolini’s regime (and he DID NOT make the trains run on time.)Our system is very much like the one Adam Smith railed againsn’t in “The Wealth of Nations”.

  107. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 7:31 pm

    For starters, Bill the chimp could not be naturalized after his childhood in circuses and in captivity, so he had to end up in a situation like our zoo. He seemed to live a long life and have lots of enrichment activities provided by the staff at the zoo. Not the perfect life for a chimp, but better than many.

    People hate the zoo sometimes for the only reason that Larry Glass got people in “choose mode” with his anti Arkley spiel. Let’s see, pick safety services or the rich Arkley’s pet project?

    Aside from trying to pick sides, I love the zoo. I think health and safety services have their roots in programs that entertain and educate our children who can’t travel to other countries, counties even. I believe those in charge of the zoo have done an excellent job improving the place the last few years. Having traveled a lot, I can say that it isn’t different from many zoos in smaller towns, and that most of the displays provide a good and safe, stress free environment for the animals.

    Please stop the anti- Arkley tirade and stick with the issues.

  108. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 7:46 pm

    Contrary to your fairytale, 7:31, Bill spent many years in a cage, without glass to protect him from his guests, with nothing but a tire on a rope and a gunny sack for “enrichment.” Not until the fiasco when they killed the bears was anything done to improve the quality of his life and only in the last few years was he provided a decent shelter and TV for company when they discovered they could capitalize on his “paintings.”

  109. April 1, 2011 at 8:05 pm

    Hello…is this thing on? Ok, Disney is the Anti-Christ!

  110. anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 8:39 pm

    Except that national Republicans like Bohner and McConnell keep saying how bad it would be in this recession to raise taxes. I for one think that the Bush tax cuts should have been allowed to lapse, but lets just say that higher taxes are having an effect on the national economy. I am sure Arkley, Jager, Brady, Newman and Ciarbellini as all Republicans believe that crap. I don’t necessarily, and say that the economy is depressed because corporations are sitting on too much cash. However this is a macroeconomic argument, as opposed to microeconomics. The sales tax hits home, makes things more expensive, and people want to buy less. Retail stores find it more difficult to survive. You can’t use those Republican economic theories on a macro level and disregard them on a micro level. Who will the sales tax increase hurt? Well it is obvious. The Bayshore Mall. That is the largest retail portion of the economy in Eureka that collects the sales tax by far. (It ain’t Winco, and all those food stamp receiving criminals!) The Mall is a ghost town. It is literally dying in front of our eyes. The whole southern wing is all empty. The Gottshalks space is still empty. GGP (the mall’s owner) is bankrupt. This tax increase will likely spell the end of the mall. Oh but we will still have that pathetic poor excuse for a Zoo. I voted no. Unlike the Reps on the Council, I am not a hypocrite. They need to write Bohner and say, we favor tax increases to solve financial problems. Lets start taxing corporations and rich people to pay for our Government. Whats that sound you hear, Yep, its crickets. Hypocrites. I really do hate them.

  111. Anonymous
    April 1, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Oh, Jane, you are always condescending and looking down on the less knowledgeable, in your view. The zoo staff tried to enrich him with flavors, puzzle items, new and varied objects, and then the painting, which of course everyone knows made the zoo rich and famous. HAHAHA. “Capitalized”? That’s funny.

    I contend this is all about anti Arkley. It wasn’t an issue before.

  112. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 9:06 pm

    It’s obviously an Arkley issue to you, 8:46, since you’re the only one who mentioned him. To some its about animal cruelty and / or funding priorities, concerns which preceded Arkley’s involvement with the zoo.

  113. High Finance
    April 1, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    So, PJ, WhatNow and all the other zoo bashers have failed to say whether they own any pets, dogs, cats whatever.

    Do you ?

    WhatNow, when the government owned & ran the Post Office we had twice daily deliveries to businesses. That is an example of government inefficiency at its worst. We don’t need it. Privatizing the Post Office was the best goddamn thing that ever happened to it.

    And just how many of the aliases above are you trying to pretend there are a lot of fools like you ?

  114. High Finance
    April 1, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    8.39pm. It is ridiculous to charge that the sales tax increase is what is hurting the Bayshore Mall. The increase would add a FIFTY CENT increase to a ONE HUNDRED DOLLAR PURCHASE.

    The southern wing of the mall is empty getting ready for all of the Best Buy remodeling. They are moving them out because Best Buy is taking up most of that space. General Growth is out of bankruptcy now that it is reorganized. Gottschalks owns its old space and nobody can move in until Gottschalks sells it.

    Only a brain dead bitter partisan would have the nerve to blame the Bayshore Mall’s problems and Eureka’s sales tax increase on the Republican Party.

  115. Plain Jane
    April 1, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    You see, 8:39, it’s all because of the recession which everybody knows was caused by poor people buying houses.

    I don’t have a pet but don’t believe you can equate domestic animals living in homes, receiving lots of love and attention, to wild animals living in cages so people can stare at them. No matter how pretty they make the cages for our enjoyment, they are just cages to the animals.

  116. Mitch
    April 1, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    HiFi,

    I live with cats. Cats and dogs have co-evolved with humans. They like having us around to serve them (in the case of most cats) or being able to serve us (in the case of most dogs).

    I hope you’re not comparing that with pulling a primate out of the wild. Are you? Because if you are, there are some cats I know who’d like to have a word with you.

  117. What Now
    April 1, 2011 at 10:13 pm

    High Finance blew the following out his ass on:
    April 1, 2011 at 9:22 pm

    “when the government owned & ran the Post Office we had twice daily deliveries to businesses. That is an example of government inefficiency at its worst. We don’t need it. Privatizing the Post Office was the best goddamn thing that ever happened to it.”

    Nonsense.
    The reason postal rates have exploded and service has diminished under the privitization act is that 1st class mail sent by the common citizen subsidizes junk mail, circulars, and ads.

    Nixon was quite honest in ramming that abortion of an act was to cripple the Postal Worker’s Union.

    Now, each Post Master can set arbitrary policies,prices,hours,etc.

    Once again, provatization broke a functional system and openend up the field for corporations.

    Go crawl back in your bottle, HiFried.

  118. Andrew Bird
    April 1, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    The U.S. Postal Service is not privatized. It is an independent agency of the U.S. government created by the Constitution. What Nixon did 40 years ago was to make it an independent, self-sufficient agency not supported by tax dollars. However, the USPS does not operate under the same rules as a private corporation. It has an exclusive monopoly on the delivery of mail and it has always had access to the U.S. Treasury, from which it has borrowed heavily.

  119. skippy
    April 1, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    On a micro level, we’ll tighten our belts, spend and buy less. Life is still good, but slightly less so. We did everything one was supposed to do: work hard, stay with the company, save for a rainy day, stay out of debt, invest, pay our taxes. Things have tainted a bit. It’s not so rosy, things have changed, those aren’t rules to follow anymore. What happened?

    On a macro level, we were told by Wall Street that the economy was going to immediately collapse after all was seemingly well. Certainly the Dow and businesses were humming along just fine before the Announcement. After seeing a gargantuan $13-14 trillion bailout in a trickle down idea of rescuing bad investments of Wall Street and bank speculators gambling on the housing bubble and mortgage backed securities, the economy tanked. As the Right and Left yammered at each other in distraction (with the Tea Party thrown in for good measure) Wall Street went–and still goes– unnoticed, and still using their complicated and irresponsible gambling machinations for profits with little oversight.

    Consumer confidence is still crumbling. Hourly wages continue to fall while housing prices drop. Wages are falling because as unemployment rises, most people have no bargaining power taking whatever they can get. Housing is dropping and many can’t pay their mortgages.

    Wall Street is doing well currently. Look at the current Dow Jones Industiral Averages (12,376!) and then compare that to our economic condition and that of the common (working?) Joe on the street. See a diference? Wall Street profits soared to $426.5 billion last quarter, according to the Commerce Department. State and local governments are cutting their budgets by roughly $110 billion this year. With the federal stimulus coming to a close, the Obama Administration will be cutting $30 billion from this year’s budget.

    The White House and Democrats don’t want to sound the alarm but have us believe the economy is improving. Republicans worry that if they tell the truth, we’ll want government to do more. They’d rather not focus on jobs and wages but on deficit reduction, telling folks they’ll get more jobs and higher wages. So the Right and Left, Conservative and Liberal, continue to yammer on in distraction.

    Yeah, we got a 9% tax. That’s the least of our worries, folks.

    On a macro level, an unregulated Wall Street should clearly be our first worry– and our driven focus. Wall Street and the financial services sector is what drove this economy into the ground and tanked it. They can do it again, too. It wil take years to recover, if ever. If it does recover, our economic landscape may evolve into something far different than what we’ve seen in the past.

  120. What Now
    April 1, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    The Postal Reorganization Act of 1970 abolished the United States Post Office Department, a part of the cabinet, and created the United States Postal Service, a corporation-like independent agency with an official monopoly on the delivery of mail in the United States. Pub.L. 91-375 was signed by President Richard Nixon on August 12, 1970.
    “corporation-like”,”monopoly”.

  121. Anonymous
    April 2, 2011 at 3:11 am

    Windy, Wiki, Skippy
    I vented, I wikied, I was offered dessert.

    Pappy always said ‘twould be the do-gooders who’d get you in the end. No sense of humor, he said. And harder to buy.

    Ah well, back to the depths of the id.

  122. Anonymous
    April 2, 2011 at 7:32 am

    I meant to answer Mitch a while back. I purchased a car recently and the price quoted with tax was actually slightly higher when the dealer realized I live outside of town, in an unincorporated area. It’s all about your address, not the dealership’s. Doesn’t seem to work when you buy other goods. I wonder if that is a point that could be pushed. We have to pay sales tax supposedly if we buy things in Oregon and bring them over the border, but what about a computer we buy in Eureka if we live in Freshwater?

  123. Mitch
    April 2, 2011 at 8:06 am

    Thanks, and thank you 10:06am as well. I’m surprised dealerships in higher-tax jurisdictions don’t make more of an effort to advertise this. Then again, maybe just having your name associated with discussion of a tax turns people off.

  124. Mitch
    April 2, 2011 at 8:36 am

    I somewhat disagree, skippy. IMO, limited media ownership, unlimited political contributions, and paid political advertising are the problems, and they get worse and worse with increasing wealth concentration.

    Even more fundamental is the replacement of much higher education with a capitalist training system that teaches people exactly the wrong values and culminates in the attitude perfectly pictured on that iconic poster from the 70s, “Nuclear war! Oh no, there goes my career!”

    Wall Street’s ownership of the current government is mainly a symptom. If it weren’t Wall Street banks, it would be GE and GM, or Exxon, or maybe GoogApple in a not so far off future. Regulation of Wall Street would be nice, but it won’t happen for real until the three biggies above are addressed.

    The disease is the vicious circle of wealth accumulation and opinion control by a small self-interested group.

    The cure — which I don’t anticipate — would be fatal overreach on the part of the wealthiest, followed by complete public discrediting of the current opinion manipulation techniques, and refusal of the public to even watch advertising or listen to folks like Limbeck.

    Failing that, I don’t find it very hard to imagine a total collapse of the United States.

  125. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 9:06 am

    Wall Street DID NOT, and I repeat, DID NOT HOLD YOUR HAND AND ASSIST YOU IN SIGNING A HOME/CAR LOAN, A CREDIT CARD ACCOUNT, ANY CHARGE ACCOUNTS FOR A/P’s, etc….

    So, naive Americans are as much to blame OR MORE than WALL STREET! Listening to what fact tellers and truth tellers say is a very tall order for most Americans, rather most humanoids in today’s reality…….GREED AND CLASS LEVEL COMPARISONS + SOCIETAL PEER PRESSURES = cataclysmic melt down nuclear reactor style (economic and social analogies are everywhere, just need to look as it is that simple).

    JL

  126. April 2, 2011 at 9:16 am

    “…you anti zoo zealots…”

    Sorry HiFi, just looking for places to cut, and the zoo looks good. The zealotry seems to be on your side of this equation.

  127. Mitch
    April 2, 2011 at 9:30 am

    OK Henchman,

    Here’s what “Wall Street” did.

    America had used a system in which savings and loans organizations took people’s savings and loaned them out so that other people could get loans to buy houses. The banks had to be able to return their savers’ savings within a few months of the saver demanding their money, so it was very important to the banks that the loans be legitimate. The banks also (I think) profited off the interest spread, but would lose substantial profit if their loans went south.

    This was a sensible system — it meant that banks cared about the loans they made, and so were very careful in deciding whom to loan money to, and kept a sharp eye on their loans.

    Then Wall Street became involved (and Fannie and Freddy too, HiFi). Wall Street “geniuses” “invented” new “financial products” which allowed banks to make loans without risk. The profit motive, that driver of capitalism, was completely and totally detached from the loan performance, and attached instead to loan volume. Banks, under the rules they had government set, had every reason to give out loans to anyone who would ask — every loan was more money in their pockets at zero risk.

    Who assumed the risk? We were lied to. We were told that the risk was being taken by the purchasers of the incredibly clever things that were created out of the mortgages, collateralized debt obligations and complex securities based on the collateralized debt obligations.

    But the risk was actually being taken, all along, by the US treasury.

    Home-buyers had little to do with this. They were offered free money, and they took it. You can say they shouldn’t have, and I can say that pigs should fly. No economic system should have allowed the incentives that banks were given to push loans.

    The predictable happened.

    The “geniuses” pocketed rewards for revolutionizing the economic system.

    The banks pocketed money for selling CDOs.

    The crooks at the banks took advantage of naive investors (those who thought they were on a legal playing field) by offering them collections of shit they’d assembled in cooperation with other crooks, who got to extract the cream.

    The homeowners got in over their head, and lost their homes.

    The banks got in over their head and got rescued.

    The government gave the banks what they wanted.

    The press told us the government got everything back and more, but that’s a laugh. What’s actually happened is everything is being revalued behind the scenes, so it looks like we’ve been repaid.

    The whole process is only made complete when the idiots come out and blame greedy homebuyers. Congratulations.

  128. Plain Jane
    April 2, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Great synopsis and conclusion, Mitch.

  129. April 2, 2011 at 9:45 am

    I’m sure that Wall Street brokers will sleep easier now, knowing that the “Henchman of Justice” is fervently defending them.

  130. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Mitch,

    Financial scams like CDO’s, MBO’s, etc…. no need to disagree on what I already have educated myself upon recently (past decade), as well as, decades ago (prior to the ripe young age of 18 – what were most other people learning????? Not the right stuff, that is for sure, look around.)

    Just remember this though, had not the consumer given the opportunity for Wall Street and Bankers to do their misdeeds (said politely), then the consumer would not be AS DAMAGED either….it is a chronological order of sorts and YOU KNOW my fascist arguments as well, so no need to manipulate integrities in your latest response, imo.

    Finally, no need to taint another’s knowledge, unless it is for, as an example, peer group brainwashing in order to deny the truth of another’s understanding on any given topic or subject matter because “that another” is effectually helping to diminish and deny the goals of those doing the brainwashings for whom seek an agenda to act upon, right or wrong. It is a weird world when people tend to agree but still don’t want to associate or be affiliated with each other because of a less than significant difference in ideologies (religion aside).

    JL

  131. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 10:08 am

    Joel,

    your supposed to point and squirt at the toilet bowl, not at your eye sockets.

    JL

  132. Mitch
    April 2, 2011 at 10:13 am


    Just remember this though, had not the consumer given the opportunity for Wall Street and Bankers to do their misdeeds (said politely), then the consumer would not be AS DAMAGED either…

    Fine, Henchman. I wish humanity didn’t suffer from being composed of humans. Alas…

    It seems somewhat silly to cast blame at the manipulated consumer, just as it seems somewhat silly to cast blame at a manipulate electorate.

    But I apologize for besmirching your reputation.

  133. skippy
    April 2, 2011 at 10:41 am

    Mitch and Hench, your points are well taken, especially given the future ramifications of our recent capitalistic ethics and values lately (or lack of), General Electric earning their money with their offshore profits skyrocketing from $15 billion in 1992 to $92 billion today (and the best example why it doesn’t fork over U.S. taxes), and even the Citizens United case, to name only a few. There are more examples, of course, that you mention.

    Yours truly will kindly offer his larger view from above. You may have to open up your mind a bit. Understand it’s related on good authority which will be explained in closing.

    Manufacturing in this country has gone from 27% in the 1950s declining to roughly 13% today. What’s taken its place is the financial services sector with converse numbers in comparison. We’re not so good at manufacturing anymore– whether it’s products, highways, or building bridges. The financial services sector, however, is very good lately at plundering what’s left.

    How? By monitoring and exploiting the commodities, currencies, and stock markets of every country 24 hours a day, taking advantage of the engineered housing, tech, and energy bubbles, loaning and borrowing massive amounts of money, and immensely enriching a very new breed of Wall Street plutocrats on a massive scale.

    How? Through the confusingly complex use of credit derivatives and default swaps, mortgage backed securities, flash trading, arbitrage, laddering, index speculation, quantitative computer-driven modeling analysis, numbers theory and probability, tranches, collateralized debt and mortgage obligations, and other fancy Rube Goldberg inventions and devices of Wall Street and the financial service sector most know little about or have the slightest comprehension of. This is a new thing, our own little La Cosa Nostra.

    Mitch and Hench, whole economies are being plundered daily across the globe. Including ours. This is a new development recently by private companies shielded from public view using their secret and ‘proprietary’ techniques. These dirty little secrets are making exclusive billionaires at your expense and redistributing wealth upwards. Way upwards. Haven’t you noticed?

    There’s more. Much more in way of explanation. How does skippy know? That’s a good question. From personal knowledge. His family’s in the business, a private business, at the very top of this food chain. There are many more. Yes, the profits are legally going offshore, too.

    What’s next? Food and fuel commodities. Then, hold onto your hat, folks: your pension and 401k. If we can get our hands into your pocket further, privatizing Social Security. My earlier post mentioned the rules are changing. This is how. A symptom, Mitch?

    This is why yours truly enjoys all the posters from Plain Jane to Tra to Owltotem to Rose, to the both of you, Mitch and Hench, with your different opinions that hit the mark but in different ways, and from different perspectives. Even Hi-Fi hits his bullseye.

    …sorry so long, folks. 3:11, no humor here.
    Peace… anonymously yours, skips

  134. skippy
    April 2, 2011 at 11:25 am

    Mitch, your 9:30 post hit the bullseye. You know too much. Thank you.

  135. What Now
    April 2, 2011 at 11:33 am

    Great post, Skippy.
    You honestly could (and should!) get that posted in one of the :news: journals in the region.

    Sadly, much of the 2008 meltdown mimicked the behavior of “the titans” of Wall Street in the 1893 meltdown,the current debacle being taken globally and with the aid of ever sophisticated hucksters and technology.The numbers cited then for bank and business failures (they’re mostly just absorbed now) and the unemployment numbers indicated are sickeningly similar to today.

    To “Anony-mush” who claimed privatized fire departments worked quite fine until the Great Fire of London:NONSENSE!
    That was the hayday of completely unfettered insurance companies and, like the disasters of Hurricanes Rita and Katrina, they were willing to sell protection they couldn’t provide.
    Those privatized companies were understaffed,had insufficient resources to respond to multiple incidents, had no established infrastructure of roads,streets,paths OR water systems but they happily took people’s monthly payments to put a “shield” over their doorways indicating they had “fire insurance.”
    Thus, the origin of brand names such as “Blue Shield”.

  136. Mitch
    April 2, 2011 at 11:34 am

    skippy,

    It’s all in a safe deposit box to be opened in the event of my suspicious death. Rosebud.

  137. Anonymous
    April 2, 2011 at 11:35 am

    What Now? Plain Jane was correct. The mush was satire. Jesus, people.

  138. Anonymous
    April 2, 2011 at 11:37 am

    Get it? Worked well until the Great Fire? As in, didn’t work, because there was a great fire?

    Never mind.

  139. April 2, 2011 at 12:10 pm

    “…I already have educated myself…”

    That explains it. Poor Henchman’s teacher is a nitwit.

  140. Eric Kirk
    April 2, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    Taxes up when conservatives are in power? That’s not supposed to happen.

  141. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    Mitch says:
    April 2, 2011 at 10:13 am

    Just remember this though, had not the consumer given the opportunity for Wall Street and Bankers to do their misdeeds (said politely), then the consumer would not be AS DAMAGED either…

    Fine, Henchman. I wish humanity didn’t suffer from being composed of humans. Alas…

    It seems somewhat silly to cast blame at the manipulated consumer, just as it seems somewhat silly to cast blame at a manipulate electorate.

    But I apologize for besmirching your reputation.

    Response: It is just that without one, the other does not exist. I am not dismissing fraud over a naive consumer; or, even over an uneducated consumer. Yet, the cry me a river sob story does not cut like the Grande Canyon, imo, WHEN it takes at least 2 to tango in the very losses people have incurred. Ya, it sucks, but it is not ALL Wall Street without at least the efforts of the future victims who have TOO MUCH FAITH AND TRUST IN OTHERS. To be duped is not good. To not pay attention to detail – well, whose fault is that besides the person themself that made the decision to give the opportunity to a duper without paying attention.

    The old saying, “if it sounds to good to be true or real, then it probably is”. (generally).

    JL

  142. Mitch
    April 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm

    Henchman,

    You’re not getting it. It’s not about individual homeowners pretending to have more assets than they did. It’s about the banks not caring, because they needed more mortgages to pour into the fraud machine Wall Street invented. People lie. Banks are supposed to check. These mortgages were unofficially called “liar loans” and nobody cared because the banks participating knew they’d make their fees anyway and would never be responsible for a dime.

    Here’s a starting point.

    http://www.propublica.org/article/new-documents-show-hedge-fund-magnetar-influenced-deal-despite-denials

  143. April 2, 2011 at 8:00 pm

    Uh, just to remind my buddy HiFi, the campaign signs for measure O read “Support Public Safety”. They DID NOT say “support the zoo”. Remember the cute little yellow signs? Ah yes, now it comes back…….

  144. skippy
    April 2, 2011 at 8:02 pm

    Exactly. Only the tip of the iceberg for one company, too, Mitch. There are many more examples. Hench, it’s not a matter of having ‘two to tango’ nor ‘having too much faith or trust in others’ anymore than having your pocket picked after taking all the precautions– later finding out getting your pocket picked wasn’t illegal and perfectly justifiable. It’s a problem of regulation and oversight.

    Here’s an example of what went down previous to our economic crash. Everyone should know this. The biggest investment banks in our nation (Bear Stearns, Morgan Stanley, Lehman Brothers, Goldman, and Merrill Lynch) went to SEC Chairman William Donaldson in 2004 and personally persuaded him to remove borrowing restrictions so they could gamble even more of their OPM (Other People’s Money). So what if that money was in bogus investments like their bullshit ‘mortgage-backed’ securities? There was more money to make.

    Making a ton of cash on the 12 to 1 ratio just wasn’t enough for these guys. SEC’s Donaldson nixed the rule and allowed these banks an even greater debt-equity ratio that was boosted to above 20 to 1. Merrill Lynch got 40 to 1! Sounds awfully similar to our Savings and Loan Crisis of the 1980’s, doesn’t it?

    We know what happened. These investment banks gambled, the burgeoning housing bubble burst, they lost, and were rewarded with the largest bailout in history, plain and simple. Don’t forget those great bonuses, either. The economy still collapsed, the damage being so severe and compounded. This was far more irresponsible than any homeowner could think of– and it was almost invisible regarding who was to blame. Hench, this started the $13-14 trillion gargantuan and historic bailout program by first rescuing these failed investments that were poor to begin with. Unfortunately, everything else also started sliding south– like our Highway 101 slide– only this started taking other countries’ economies along with it. The dominoes just kept falling.

    Certainly readers will remember Wall Street telling us everything was fine on Monday? Yet come Friday, we were told if there wasn’t a huge infusion of capital– a bailout– the entire U.S. economy would completely fail in a matter of days. No, it wasn’t the result of the sub-prime mortgage mess you were led to believe. It was far greater than that, although that was a convenient excuse. A casino-gambling-economic experiment gone awry after the house of cards fell in the investment and banking sector?

    The real villain here, Hench, is Wall Street, the financial services sector, and its greed– their newly developed, complex mechanisms exploiting every nook and cranny with little attention or oversight. Folks, this peril is real, still here, unnoticed and unchecked, and completely legal. Compounded even worse as jobs, companies, and profits continually go off-shore and sheltered, tax-free. The public should be enraged.

    Yet even Congress doesn’t understand fully what’s going on– much less comprehending this– and these economic can traps of plunder. This understanding and oversight is left to the ‘experts.’ Industry experts entwined into the business at the highest levels. Those in the industry knowing these secrets are becoming massively rich and beyond your wildest dreams. Multibillionaires. They are also very smart and very powerful people. Yours truly has seen it. The Family is not only in the business, they own it.

    But, Hench, on a happier note, the good news is our declining wages or incomes have more purchasing power, we’re told. Of cheaper goods manufactured elsewhere and bought in big box stores.

  145. Walt
    April 2, 2011 at 9:42 pm

    Skippy, you’re spot on, but I disagree on this point: “Yet even Congress doesn’t understand fully what’s going on– much less comprehending this–” They know exactly what’s going on, and they too are profiting bigtime. Where does their money come from, and why does it keep coming in? Because those who buy get what they pay for, from both parties.

  146. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 10:41 pm

    Mitch says:
    April 2, 2011 at 6:08 pm
    Henchman,

    You’re not getting it. It’s not about individual homeowners pretending to have more assets than they did. It’s about the banks not caring, because they needed more mortgages to pour into the fraud machine Wall Street invented. People lie. Banks are supposed to check. These mortgages were unofficially called “liar loans” and nobody cared because the banks participating knew they’d make their fees anyway and would never be responsible for a dime.

    Here’s a starting point.

    http://www.propublica.org/article/new-documents-show-hedge-fund-magnetar-influenced-deal-despite-denials

    Response: Mitch,

    Too bad all my posts on housing, Wall Street Brokers, The Bankers, etc… that has opened up many of a discussion on this blog-site….. historically refutes your attempts to smear someone who has come out years ago with this stuff WHICH you are only now just “re-iterating” (no plagiarism). In fact, while you evolved on this blog site at a time selling NOAA(???) radios, the discussions of what you are just “now re-iterating” had already been occuring, but not by that many left wingers here, nor hardly any righties; now, if you were an anti-duopolist, then you’d qualify because those are the respondents and commenters who began the various discussions as history will show (not tea baggers either).

    No need for more manipulations to deflect the fact that many of those who got duped were partly themself at fault – again, this does not dismiss the abuse by those for whom we agree upon, but people should not act “all surprised” either. Additionally, when homeowners (since people like reacting as a home owner too) use their home as an ATM “cha-ching” machine to pull false equity out to buy a car, or furniture, or a home remodel or, or, or, then who is fooling who (do people ever stop to think about where future money is gonna come from – of course, that is why the public sector has more and more employees…guaranteed jobs)? If anyone is to blame, blame the parents for not being better at raising smarter and more aware humanoids; then, blame the education system for “setting-up” the student base to only know “certain stuff” that really enslaves these young, but future apathetic folks who don’t RESPECT the value of a dollar earned as an adolescent, nor care to understand how the financial world really is as puberty passes on. When so many folks act like life is more than a gift (greed) without hard times, then apathy about “economic and financial” reality is what can set in, which it has.

    So, I am sure we both “get it”, it is just a matter of who is trying to make another appear stupid for some groupee agenda….good thing I ain’t no groupee, but, what say you Mitch, are you a groupee?

    JL

  147. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Walt says:
    April 2, 2011 at 9:42 pm
    Skippy, you’re spot on, but I disagree on this point: “Yet even Congress doesn’t understand fully what’s going on– much less comprehending this–” They know exactly what’s going on, and they too are profiting bigtime. Where does their money come from, and why does it keep coming in? Because those who buy get what they pay for, from both parties.

    Response: Case in point is Emminant Domain for tax generating developments….pure greed by government to collect more taxes by forcing out home owners or other private property owners like ranchers.

    JL

  148. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 2, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    Skippy,

    The Financial Sector, SEC, etc… if it were a “me” vesus “you” in a “who explained it first category”…..well, do we need to go there? Oops, did I begin to open-up Pandora’s Box again? Saturday Night Fights must be on, must be an information boxing match or few going on this evening at the Herald. Or, is it an MMA cage, take-down match? Never really sure on this site.

    JL

  149. skippy
    April 2, 2011 at 11:25 pm

    Thank you, Walt. Yours truly did wonder about ‘Congress not knowing’ given one peculiar situation. The Family appeared before a congressional committee to explain what happened after the Crash. They demanded, and pulled out, a massive chunk of their change in one of the investment banks beforehand starting the unraveling and collapse of all the banks and dominoes.

    They did nothing wrong, they just took their money back after imposing indicators of the bank’s stability hit their radar. Unfortunately, it was the straw that broke the camel’s back. They were going to explain to Congress how it all went down. They were also the ones still standing and unscathed– whereas the banks were still imploding and barely wobbling sideways.

    Yours truly expected them to be excoriated before Congress. After all, untold billions of dollars had just vaporized overnight. Much more was to follow. They were not denounced, condemned, or criticized whatsoever. Heck, they weren’t even grilled on a personal level. They gave their plausible reasons. Understand, they’re very brilliant and good at what they do.

    Surprisingly enough, they were lauded and praised, coined as being the Wall Street Wizards for some curious reason, one that yours truly still hasn’t been able to fathom or explain. Nor has he asked. Your explanation could fit in part, Walt.

    Let’s leave this short. We’ll leave Mr. Madoff for another time. To Mitch, Rosebud is right.

    peace to you and yours…. skips

  150. skippy
    April 2, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Henchie, No, we don’t need to go there. You’d win, hands down. You know we love ya, HofJ.

    peace… skips

  151. April 3, 2011 at 8:10 am

    This is probably my favorite heated discussion on here this week. Very interesting debate.

  152. Mitch
    April 3, 2011 at 8:49 am

    Henchman,

    Yes, I’m a groupee.

    I apologize again for suggesting you don’t get it. I haven’t read everything you’ve posted, so how could I assert that you “don’t get it.” It was condescending and probably mistaken, and I thank you for pointing that out.

    I do still believe, though, that everyone should get two way radios — ours are a pair of Midland GXT740s — for when a local disaster hits.

  153. "HENCHMAN OF JUSTICE"
    April 3, 2011 at 9:09 am

    Hey Mitch and Skips,

    I believe “we all 3 get it”; I am just opposed to certain trascriptive tactics or styles of communication if you will. After all, who knows better about what who has ever been involved in, either by way of discussion, action, thought, etc…. “that individual who, sts”. So, sometimes, and it happens to all of us, there is a feelig of defensiveness when someone has already had “that discussion, thought, etc..” and is being made out to be that they had not had that discussion, thought, etc….

    Sunday Peace and Quiet, less those pesky carbon exhaust systems.

    JL

  154. Mitch
    April 3, 2011 at 9:27 am

    Before I try to tear myself away from the computer this glorious morning, one last comment.

    The system is self-healing, and does not require that any incoming Congressperson be corrupt. You want to stay in Congress, you want support from the people that have the money? You learn to limit your offenses. It’s easy to justify in the name of pragmatism. I think Barney Frank is an exceptional man, for example, but in this financial crisis he hasn’t accomplished nearly what a younger me had hoped he would, or even spoken as loudly and clearly as I know he could.

    If you don’t learn, no problem. You just lose next time out and get to serve as an object lesson to others.

    Same for President Obama. Geez, it’s not even enough to be President.

    If you are too loud and too honorable to play the game even a little, it becomes well-known — it doesn’t matter how ridiculous — that you are not a team player but a narcissist, like that awful Ralph Nader who does nothing but promote himself. If there’s one bit of evidence of how completely our minds can be controlled, that’s it. Ralph Nader as narcissist. Just read some history.

    We frequently put good people in office. The system is able to absorb their good will and best efforts without indigestion, and they come out sanitized. And it handles the best people by shutting them out completely.

  155. Anonymous
    April 3, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Erik says:

    “Taxes up when conservatives are in power? That’s not supposed to happen.”

    Conservatives are not in power. Moderates are.

  156. Plain Jane
    April 3, 2011 at 2:09 pm

    Well, the GOP’s 2012 budget calls for (wait for it) tax cuts for the rich and tax increases for the poor! SURPRISE!!! Ryan calls it “broadening the tax base.”

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110403/ap_on_re_us/us_gop2012_budget

  157. skippy
    April 4, 2011 at 6:39 pm

    If you care about Measure O’s 9% tax and how well it’s spent (Zoo otters, police officers, or not), well, you have an opportunity to speak during Tuesday’s public comments at the Eureka City Council meeting.

    “The Eureka City Council on Tuesday will consider having the Finance Advisory Committee oversee annual audits of where funds from the recently implemented Measure O tax increase are spent and consider authorizing the hiring of a consultant for strategic planning…”

    The Times-Standard article appearing today on Measure O’s audit also added this:

    “Staff is recommending the Finance Advisory Committee oversee the audit because it is already established, and members have an understanding of the city’s budget and financial systems, according to the agenda summary. The council will also consider hiring consultant Roger James to assist with a strategic planning process to “clearly define their objectives for the community” for an amount not to exceed $10,500, according to the agenda…”

    The City Council will also be discussing redirection of a marijuana dispensary application not previously accepted.

    On other matters, the Times-Standard reported “Eureka Community Development Director Sidnie Olson said the Eureka Planning Commission will look at proposed changes to the city’s ordinance that would further restrict where (marijuana) dispensaries can locate, among other changes, on April 18.”

    More can be found in the Times-Standard’s
    “Eureka Council to Consider Measure O Oversight by the Finance Advisory Committee”
    by outstanding reporters Allison White and Kimberly Wear.

    The Eureka City Council meeting is this Tuesday, April 5, at 6pm, at Eureka City Hall, 531 K Street in Eureka. All are welcome.

    The April 5th Council agenda can be found here.

    The Measure O audit is item #10, near the end of the agenda:

    “Supplemental Transaction and Use Tax Oversight Committee
    Recommendation: Authorize the Finance Advisory Committee to assume the responsibilities of the Citizen Oversight Committee as described in Section 35.191 of the Supplemental Transaction and Use Tax.
    (City Manager)”

  158. skippy
    April 4, 2011 at 7:32 pm

    At the beginning of this column, our illustrious host, Heraldo, noted: “The passage of the measure requires a citizen’s oversight committee to conduct annual audits of all expenditures generated by the tax to ensure fiscal accountability and public participation.”

    Hmmm…

    Curious for citizens to note in the last paragraph of skippy’s previous post the important recommendation of the Eureka City Council agenda on the Supplemental Transaction and Use Tax– as proposed by City Manager Tyson, and repeated here:

    “Authorize the Finance Advisory Committee to assume the responsibilities of the Citizen Oversight Committee as described in Section 35.191 of the Supplemental Transaction and Use Tax.
    (City Manager)”

    Who is the responsibility of Measure O oversight transferring from and to whom?

    No mention of who, if anyone, exactly comprises the Citizen’s Oversight Committee can be found on the City’s website.

    However, these are the citizens of whom that oversight of Measure O is transferring to on the Finance Advisory Committee, if approved by Council:

    Robert F. Bartley
    Peter Hannaford
    David Ogden
    Jack Rieke
    Bruce Rupp
    Leo Sears
    VACANCY
    Council Liaison:
    Mike L. Newman 12/21/2010
    Melinda Ciarabellini 01/04/2011 (Alternate)

  159. tra
    April 4, 2011 at 7:48 pm

    They just take off their FAC hats and put on their COC hats, and everything is hunky-dory.

  160. skippy
    April 4, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    Perhaps Tra is referring to the Eureka City Council giving the Chamber of Commerce (COC) a cool $100 grand a few months back (with Councilmember Atkins dissenting)? (Also to note, 95% of all other COCs, except ours, are self-funded.)

    To be fair to the record, however, yours truly could find no apparent associations between Eureka’s Financial Advisory Committee (FAC) and the COC, with the exception of Leo Sears as an individual member. None of the FAC sits on the COC board or staff. The members of the FAC appear to be fine, upstanding community gentlemen with knowledge of finance, business, and auditing experience.

    Perhaps Tra knows more? Tra is deadly accurate– and rock solidly dead-on in his facts and understanding.

  161. April 6, 2011 at 8:43 am

    Skippy? Do they sell “Mental-Imodium AD for Intellectuals with over-active minds in China?” Ha Ha…..Sorry Bro, I don’t mean to be a jumping bean…ha again! I got you.
    It’s great to see you wielding your intellect for good and not for evil.
    I hope you’re getting paid to write somewhere. Lost Coast maybe? I’ll look for your work under another name; yours that is, not mine…ha! again.

  162. skippy
    April 6, 2011 at 8:59 am

    The Times-Standard reported today:

    “The Eureka City Council opted at its Tuesday meeting to have the Finance Advisory Committee provide oversight for Measure O funds. …The city estimates it will generate $3.4 million for the city’s general fund, with about $800,000 available for this fiscal year.”

    More can be read in Allison Edrington’s article in
    the Times-Standard here.

    Also reported in Allison’s article, the City Council moved ahead on their 4-1 vote (Ciarabellini dissenting) accepting Humboldt Bay Wellness’ proposal towards permitting of their medical marijuana dispensary and cultivation and processing facility within the city. Humboldt Bay Wellness’ proposal now moves from the Council to the Planning Department for a conditional use permit.

    Lastly… Congratulations, Ms. Edrington, for tying the knot. Best of wishes– to you and yours.

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