Home > crime > GALLEGOS: Methadone clinic needed to curb local heroin trafficking

GALLEGOS: Methadone clinic needed to curb local heroin trafficking

Eureka heroin dealer Allen Ray Walter Yochum is looking at 13 years in prison after pleading guilty to possession and transportation charges.  District Attorney Paul Gallegos says a methadone clinic or other meaningful treatment is needed.

Press release below.

Man Faces Up to 13 Years for Heroin Sales

Allen Ray Walter Yochum, 46, of Eureka, pleaded guilty today to transportation of heroin for sale in one case and possession of heroin for sale in another. He also admitted a prior drug sales conviction and admitted four prior prison terms. He agreed to a 13 year sentence in the California Department of Corrections.

On February 21, 2011, Eureka POP officers were investigating reports of heroin sales at the Patriot Gas Station in Eureka when they observed Yochum drive up in a silver Mercury station wagon and make contact with two males.

Officers approached the men and the two males admitted their intent to purchase heroin. Yochum was also contacted and because he was on parole and subject to searches at any time, officers searched him and his vehicle. In Yochum’s pocket, officers found $330 in currency, thirty [x] empty baggies stamped with “stay high”, and a small digital scale with suspected heroin residue. In the vehicle, officers found two baggies stamped “stay high” containing heroin with a combined weight of 2.8 grams.

Yochum was arrested and booked into the Humboldt County Correctional Facility. While Yochum was in custody, officers received reports that Yochum possessed heroin. On Feb 25, 2011, facility staff searched Yochum and his belongings and discovered a bag containing 16.1 grams of heroin in Yochum’s mattress.

Yochum is scheduled to be sentenced to the stipulated term, subject to approval from the court, on June 6, 2011 by the Honorable Superior Court Judge Timothy Cissna.

“I commend the Eureka Police Department’s POP team and Deputy District Attorney Ben McLaughlin for their outstanding work,” said Humboldt County District Attorney Paul Gallegos. “However, without meaningful heroin treatment, like the methadone treatment center that our community has historically opposed, we will continue to see demand for heroin and people willing to provide it.”

  1. Sonia Baur, M.D.
    May 9, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Drug addiction is public health problem which should be dealt with by medical professionals trained in the treatment of that type of illness; it should not be clogging up the criminal-justice and prison system. Perhaps, with any luck, Paul Gallegos and Dr. Ann Lindsay can get together, overcome many obstacles and open a county drug-addiction clinic to deal with the problem.

  2. owltotem
    May 9, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    I was talking with an old local homeless heroin addict last week, he said he was planning on heading down to Santa Rosa to get on “the juice”. I said, cant you get it here? He said, not without an address and the most you can get is 30 mg. He said, I don’t want to do methadone and heroin, they’ll give me 80-100 mg in Santa Rosa, and I can make $60 in 2 hours pan handling at the Costco in Santa Rosa. He said, I could even get a place with that much. That is the facts, the truth and a real conversation. that is the common depth of a disease that infects our community. It is insidious and deeply rooted in this county and we all consistently turn a blind eye or call it something it is not.

    I see Gallegos is at least opening his eyes and realizing there is a problem. I am far from someone who knows the solutions, I know there has to be ancillary support, more than just methadone. These guys are not just going to “get well” and get a job. They have lost the ability to even imagine anything more than just not being dope sick.

    First of all start calling it what it is. We have a bunch of sick addicts on the street. Second the EPD beat the homeless out of their tents and slashed their tents up on the night that it snowed here. It was not in the paper, it was not on the news, the same guy from above told me about it (I helped him get a tent, it is the only place he has to go when he is dope sick). I dont hang out with these guys, but I’d lay even money Hi Fi did business with the the man in the above discussion 25 years ago, many of you did. There but for the grace of God go any one of us no matter what you believe.

    This is my community, I need to know about all of it in order to remain informed, humble, hopeful and effective. Thank you Paul for not being ignorant, thank you for being willing to realize there is a real issue. None of us know what the solutions are, and solutions will come with a whole host of other problems, it is like losing your hair, or life for that matter from chemotherapy, but man, you are either going to realize you have a disease and want to try and heal it, or accept it, right now, here, we are accepting it.

    Honestly, ask the heroin addicts what they need, go up to the jail and ask Allan Yokum, what can we do that might begin to make a difference on the streets, he’s probably clean in jail and he’ll probably give you some true humble insight. We are not going to figure this out in our offices in our suits, we don’t even know where to begin, but Paul thanks for being willing.

  3. May 10, 2011 at 6:25 am

    Finally, someone figured out that the real drug problem around here is not cannabis, but heroin and meth. Go get em’ Paul

  4. FutureResident
    May 10, 2011 at 6:48 am

    Here is a prime example of how much the infrastructure in place now will not go away if marijuana becomes legal! Abuse of anything is not productive. Using tax dollars to jail folks for pot is a waste of money and counter to inalienable rights & basically un-American! As for me after a long day (If the work comes my way IT is slow in my neck of the woods)I always enjoy a glass of wine and a well rolled joint! Come’on folks forget that Heroin or coke that stuff WILL KILL YOU!

  5. Plain Jane
    May 10, 2011 at 6:49 am

    I saw a documentary recently about methadone treatment. It isn’t all sweet smelling roses. Methadone in combination with many other readily available black market drugs (particularly benzodiazepines)is as debilitating, or worse, than heroin. Drugs don’t cause addiction – psychological problems do. Treating the addiction with other drugs without treating the psychological cause of the addiction seems futile and, in the case of people who will buy other drugs to enhance the effect of the methadone, can be even more dangerous.

  6. Paul
    May 10, 2011 at 6:52 am

    1)Capture, execute, bury them. 2)Capture, execute, bury them. 3)Capture, execute, bury them…….and so on.

  7. A Reasonable Dude
    May 10, 2011 at 7:47 am

    Good job Paul. Not having a methadone clinic in Humboldt is not stopping the use of heroin and having a methadone clinic will not stop use either. Any way you slice it, people are going to use heroin. So why not take a harm reduction approach that has worked in other areas? I know some people just want to kill or ship away all the heroin addicts, but that’s not realistic. What is realistic is treating these people like human beings, showing some compassion and trying something to make the community safer.

  8. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 8:09 am

    I’m heartened by the first few comments, especially those from Dr. Baur and owltotem.

    Excellent juxtaposition, Heraldo: our local DA understands the importance of medical treatment for addiction, and is brave enough to state that addiction is a medical problem, not solely a criminal one. In the immediately preceding post, we can see for ourselves the insanity that the Christianist right has brought to pot sentencing in Louisiana.

    For the cost of sending that poor soul to prison for life (for two pounds of pot!), imagine how many addicts Louisiana could get off heroin.

    Which approach do YOU think will lead to a healthier society, let alone lower taxes?

  9. Humboldt paradise
  10. May 10, 2011 at 8:37 am

    I think Paul’s understanding and approach have evolved over the years in a very posotive direction. The production and distribution of drugs is a criminal activity and needs to be prosecuted. But being addicted to those drugs is a health problem and needs to be treated as such. Some drugs can be so physically compelling that all other things become secondary to getting that fix. Something that can control you so completely must be treated as a health problem. Putting addicts in jail does not treat the problem. It only delays it until they get back out.
    You’re going in the right direction here, Paul.

  11. Sharon Letts
    May 10, 2011 at 8:48 am

    Time to shift funds from cannabis to real drugs. I can’t help but think the Feds are buckling down on cannabis to keep budgets up because they are losing ground. In a country that is adding medicinal marijuana states regularly, time to allocate funds where needed – meth and heroin are good places to start.

  12. Teacher
    May 10, 2011 at 9:27 am

    It sounds like a good idea. Now a show of hands for all the people who want the methadone clinic in their neighborhood. Since Gallegos represents the entire county and our liberal-minded better off brothers and sisters of Arcata seem to be better suited to helping people, let me be the first to suggest that the methadone clinic be located in Arcata right and not Eureka.

  13. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 9:28 am

    A few questions, if you don’t mind,
    -who’s going to pay for this, eureka or the county?
    – do methadone clinics actually help fix the problem or just extend it?
    -where is it going to be located? Who is going to let this be set up in their neighborhood?

  14. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 9:30 am

    A methadone clinic belongs in a business/medical area, not a neighborhood.

  15. Learner
    May 10, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Historical note: The City of Eureka has repeatedly turned down requests to locate a methadone clinic in that community.

  16. Learner
    May 10, 2011 at 9:39 am

    They said it would attract undesirables to Eureka.

  17. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 10:02 am

    right on Teacher, keep up the Arcata/Eureka hate, What kind of teacher are you anyway? I would have trouble in your classroom I think.

  18. RAMDX
    May 10, 2011 at 10:26 am

    “I helped him get a tent, it is the only place he has to go when he is dope sick.”

    I don’t doubt the good intentions, but isn’t helping an addict stay sheltered also keeping him from hitting bottom? Doesn’t an addict need to hit bottom before his recovery starts?

    Sure, it kept him from the elements, but it also enabled his behaviors by keeping him safe and dry so he could survive in relative comfort for his next fix.

  19. Down the Road
    May 10, 2011 at 10:32 am

    Thought I would further my popularity today by
    commenting on this subject. What a bunch of crap.
    I would bet half of you work for the welfare system.
    Let us just fill Eureka to the brim with drug addicts.
    I don’t know of one person that didn’t by themselves
    become addicted to heroin. I will with much endeavor,
    make sure, that the clinic is located in your
    neighborhoods. Tired of leeches, parasites, addicts
    and losers.

  20. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 10:43 am

    Sure, it kept him from the elements, but it also enabled his behaviors by keeping him safe and dry so he could survive in relative comfort for his next fix.

    If the “tough love” approach of denying shelter and warmth results in the death of the addict, the chances of recovery for that addict becomes exactly 0%.

  21. Teacher
    May 10, 2011 at 10:53 am

    10:02, I like Arcata immensely and am not trying to incite any hate. I was being completely serious. I see Arcata as currently being much better off than Eureka. I think they have more facilities, more disposable capital, and more compassion to help addicts. I truly want to see the methadone clinic in Arcata and I think Arcata is better suited to handle a methadone clinic. I do doubt that Arcata would allow the methadone clinic, but I’m not trying to bolster any Arcata/Eureka hatred. And yes, you probably would do poorly in my class due to apparently poor reading comprehension.

  22. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 11:04 am

    My daughter’s workplace is right next to a methadone clinic in another northern california city. She tells us that there’s a constant stream of addicted mainly homeless people there, fights break out daily and women walking on their way to work are routinely harrassed. Not to mention the human waste on sidewalks and alleys. And this is in an area that has lots of police presence nearby. I’ll pass on that here thank you.

  23. High Finance
    May 10, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Bring a methadone clinic to the area and what do you think will happen ?

    More addicts and attempting to recover addicts will come here bringing more and more problems to our town.

    WTF can’t you people ever learn ? Why can’t you listen to people like 11.04am ?

  24. RAMDX
    May 10, 2011 at 11:12 am

    “If the “tough love” approach of denying shelter and warmth results in the death of the addict, the chances of recovery for that addict becomes exactly 0%.’

    So keep them alive on live support, right? Enabling their addictions–even by giving them shelter from the elements when they’re using–is wrong.

  25. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 11:16 am

    I don’t know enough about methadone treatment vs. other heroin addiction treatment options to express an opinion about whether or not it is efffective, or a good idea in general.

    But if the data shows that methadone treatment is sometimes the best way to reduce harm and promote eventual recovery, perhaps this treatment could be provided within the existing health care infrastructure, rather than concentrated all at one location? In other words, could addicts just receive their methadone, and other services, at one of our local hospitals or existing health clinics?

    I guess there would still be some NIMBYism near those existing facilities, but at least no one city or one neighborhood would be the central magnet for all methadone patients.

    Perhaps there are logistical reasons why a single stand-alone clinic for the whole county would be better (more efficient?) but I just thought I would throw this idea out there for discussion.

  26. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 11:31 am

    Enabling their addictions–even by giving them shelter from the elements when they’re using–is wrong.

    I guess the assumption is that if only these homeless addicts were more miserable and desperate, then they’d quit using. That may be the case for some folks (who finally hit “rock bottom” and then bounce up), but I suspect that for most addicts, the more miserable and desperate they become, the more they will turn to their addiction.

  27. May 10, 2011 at 11:45 am

    Younger and healthier heroin addicts often are able work as well as anyone else if they are given reasonable access to their drug. Just like there are plenty of functional alcoholics amongst us.

    Older and sicker addicts won’t be able to work whether they have their drug or not. It is not the drug that is stopping them from working it is their infirmities.

    If you make heroin legal you will not be creating a huge number of heroin addicts. How many of you reading this blog will run out and score a dime bag to shoot up the moment heroin becomes legal?
    .
    .
    .
    .

    I didn’t think so.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  28. May 10, 2011 at 11:50 am

    What is really needed in Eureka (the county seat after all) is a free (or very low cost) detox center for people who really want to escape their addictions from heroin, meth, alcohol, glue or whatever. This is a small percentage of addicts but those who really want to quit need a safe, medical environment to quit in. A doctor is needed to help some one quit, detoxing without a doctor’s care can be fatal.

    If such a place exists let me know I am open to the idea that I may have missed it.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  29. pluto
    May 10, 2011 at 12:20 pm

    Why does everyone who doesn’t live in Eureka always think that it is just fine to build more enabling stations in this town. You are the real Nimby’s. Put it in your own backyards and maybe you will change your mind about taking more of the losers in. Eureka is full up.

  30. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    Where do you live Bill? Have a peaceful day and stuff it.

  31. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    “Bring a methadone clinic to the area and what do you think will happen ?”

    Hi Fi is right. Eureka once built a hospital, and just look at all the sick people who hang out there. It’s depressing, and none of the people in the hospital are being productive at all.

  32. Reinventing The Wheel
    May 10, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Great to read so many compassionate posts.

    Apparently, we’re rediscovering that saving lives is important, something conservatives once understood, and Richard Nixon addressed with this nation’s numerous methadone clinics.

    Next thing you know, America will return to reasonable Tariffs, along with the job creation, training and placement programs that once served everyone and proved essential for the recovery of individuals and the nation.

    “A nation ruled in wisdom doth both peace and plenty bring.”

  33. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 12:43 pm

    I hear Eureka called,Eufreaka and Eutweaka all
    the time and with good reason. I live here and am sick and tired of
    seeing this town turned into a haven for losers.
    We have several places where homeless druggies
    can just show up and get fed and a bed. There is
    the free needle exchange, mobile medical, free
    showers and clothes. At what point will anyone
    stop this runaway train.

  34. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 12:52 pm

    Send them packing. Put them on a bus and deliver them to their county of origin. Why is it up to Eureka to be the homeless capital of the world. Does anyone think that business and tourism will thrive in this hellhole we are creating. There are 58 county seats in California and none are used as a toilet and human warehouse the way this place is. This town should be a destination for someone other than freeloading welfare trash and druggies.

  35. And Another Thing....
    May 10, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    four words: BUS TO SANTA ROSA

  36. May 10, 2011 at 1:27 pm

    taxed,

    You have hit on one small part of the problem, though you have done it through ignorance and hatred rather than through intellectual exertion.

    The Greyhound bus line stops here (actually a few miles north in Trinidad.) People get on the Greyhound south of here and travel north as far as they can. They end up here. Some of them get trapped here.

    There is no bus to their “county of origin” there is only the Greyhound to Santa Rosa/Oakland and the AMTRAK to Redding.

    The weather is not good enough in Eureka to be a destination tourist resort, though I admit when it is good it is wonderful. Maybe 30 days a year. Eureka can be a niche tourist spot for a small number of tourists. Great place to spend a January weekend with your secretary, not much chance of anyone recognizing you, eh? Or for the lover of romantic old Victorian seaports who don’t mind the gloomy weather.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  37. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 1:30 pm

    Tourism is one of our biggest money-makers, Bill. Ask the Chamber of Commerce.

  38. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 2:42 pm

    And Another Thing,

    Brilliant. I think you’ve solved our national unemployment problem. Here’s a small example of how your solution can work:

    Eureka locates its homeless people and provides them with one way bus tickets to Santa Rosa. Santa Rosa locates their homeless and provides them with transit to San Francisco. San Francisco provides its homeless with bus tickets to Eureka.

    The demand for bus drivers will skyrocket, eliminating unemployment. The homeless will be sheltered on board the buses, and everyone can get lunch vouchers.

    It’s thinking like this that made the GOP famous.

  39. Oldphart
    May 10, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Hey, have some compassion and bus them to Santa Barbara. Good westher, nice beach and plenty of $$.

  40. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 2:44 pm

    Wait, wait, I think I’ve improved on it.

    When San Francisco sends people back here, we don’t send them to Santa Rosa. That would create a vicious circle. Instead, we’ll send them to Portland!

  41. High Finance
    May 10, 2011 at 3:09 pm

    How many of the homeless have you taken into your homes Mitch and Reinventing ?

    You two sound so caring, compassionate and wonderful on this issue that you make the average person feel inferior & mean by comparison.

    I’m sure that you are not all talk, that you walk the walk. So how many have you guys taken into your homes ?

    Otherwise you are just some more hypocrites.

  42. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    I’m wondering if anyone has seen any data that wqould help to answer the following four questions:

    (1) Does Humboldt really have more homeless people, per capita, than the state average?

    (2) Does Humboldt really have more hard-drug addicts, per capita, than the state average?

    (3) Do Eureka or Arcata really have more homeless people, per capita, than the state average for cities of a similar size?

    (4) Do Eureka or Arcata really have more hard-drug addicts, per capita, than the state average for cities of a similar size?

  43. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 3:34 pm

    My neighbors took a clean-cut homeless guy and let him camp in their yard, only problem was he stayed forever and had an affair with the wife.

    We let one hang out at a home remodel once and when he wouldn’t leave at the end we had to rent a fence to lock him out.

  44. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    So how many have you guys taken into your homes?

    Otherwise you are just some more hypocrites.

    They would only be hypocrites if they were insisting that other people take homeless people into their own private homes, while not doing so themselves. Neither Mitch, nor Reinventing, nor anyone else commenting here, has been insisting that you or anyone else take homeless people into their private home.

    A fairer question would be to ask: How many of us would be willing to live close to a methadone clinic?

    And that’s certainly the question that will come to the forefront very quickly if there was a serious attempt to find a location for a methadone clinic in Humboldt.

  45. Eric Kirk
    May 10, 2011 at 3:39 pm

    My neighbors took a clean-cut homeless guy and let him camp in their yard, only problem was he stayed forever and had an affair with the wife.

    Well, that’s hospitality!

  46. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 3:40 pm

    The “hypocrite” argument has a long history.

    No, I do not run a homeless shelter where I live. It’s worse than that: I’ve never had even one homeless person at home.

    That doesn’t mean I don’t want to see my taxes used to pay for services to help people. It doesn’t mean I don’t see the futility and meanness of the “ship them away” argument.

    Getting back to the subject of Heraldo’s posting, the area has people who are addicted to heroin.

    If you think that not providing services to them is the solution, well, good luck with that.

    If you think jailing them is the solution, I hope you’re ready for a pretty substantial tax increase, and I hope you recognize that once they’re in the jail, their medical issues become a public financial liability.

    If you’d rather wait until they actually commit a crime like burglary or purse-snatching out of desperation before you jail them, you get extra points for adding new victims to the mix.

    Of course, if you feel the slightest sense of EITHER fiscal responsibility OR human compassion, you recognize that the sensible thing to do is help them get off their addiction.

    You don’t just pretend you can push the problem down the road.

    Oh, I forgot, that’s your specialty.

  47. Reinventing The Wheel
    May 10, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    Every man, woman and child in the U.S. is paying thousands of dollars annually to “take in” those poor, penniless corporations…via tax havens, deregulation, incentives, subsidies and bailouts that created tens of millions of jobs for the child laborers of Asia, Africa, and South America.

    Those who decry similar public investments in America’s human resources, aka: We The People, are little more than traitors.

  48. Down the Road
    May 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Per capita Eureka does have more hard-drug addicts and
    homeless than the rest of the state. I have the
    statistics on most of this. It has brought higher
    per capita crime rates to this area.

    Some of the heroin suppliers to the U.S. are Afghanistan, Colombia, Nigeria, Peru and Ecuador.
    Wonder how many deaths have occurred over the
    importing and distribution of this drug? Have any
    American soldiers been killed in Afghanistan over
    this addiction? While I am very against the war
    in Afghanistan I do support our military. I have
    no sympathy for people’s self-inflicted illnesses.

  49. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    So it turns out that unless you have personally performed surgery on your own kitchen table, then you’re a hypocrite if you support your tax dollars being used to support hospitals.

    Hey, this new definition of hypocrisy is fun!

  50. Anonymous
    May 10, 2011 at 3:57 pm

    I would be willing to see a meth clinic near a hospital or medical offices. A meth clinic’s purpose is medical, and doesn’t belong in a neighborhood (for many reasons, including zoning, safety of residents and children, and property values) or a business district.

  51. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 4:08 pm

    Per capita Eureka does have more hard-drug addicts and homeless than the rest of the state. I have the statistics on most of this.

    It would be helpful if you could cite the figures, and give a source.

    Bonus points if there’s a link where we can check it out for ourselves.

    Extra bonus points if the data addresses the question of whether Eureka really has more homeless people and more hard-drug addicts, per capita, than the state average for cities of a similar size.

  52. Reinventing The Wheel
    May 10, 2011 at 4:12 pm

    Once again, most drug-related crimes are associated with the abuse of alcohol and pharmaceuticals.

    The same is true in Humboldt County.

    A clinic near our hospital would broaden local health care to address major health issues plaguing Eureka…or we can pay dearly later-on in avoidable diseases, crime, and homelessness.

  53. May 10, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    A logical place for a methadone clinic would be down at Koster & Washington. There are already parking, buildings and security and public transportation. It is in an industrial area and is closer and more accessible to the population that needs it than the hospital area.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  54. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 4:54 pm

    Anybody else notice this interesting little detail:

    In the vehicle, officers found two baggies stamped “stay high” containing heroin with a combined weight of 2.8 grams.

    Yochum was arrested and booked into the Humboldt County Correctional Facility. While Yochum was in custody, officers received reports that Yochum possessed heroin. On Feb 25, 2011, facility staff searched Yochum and his belongings and discovered a bag containing 16.1 grams of heroin in Yochum’s mattress.

    So he was in possession of 2.8 grams of heroin when arrested, but four days later, in jail he was found to be in possession of more than 5 times that amount? Ummmmmm…

    Sounds like either they missed something in their seach when he was booked into jail, or else the Humboldt County Jail still has at least one staff member who moonlights as a drug mule.

  55. May 10, 2011 at 6:00 pm

    Thanks Reasonable, it is the same ol’ Hypocrisy argument. It goes like this:
    “You support repatriating land back to Native Americans? OK, we’ll start with your house.” Never a word about the land the Railroads stole, the millions and millions of acres that now belong to Weyerheser, LP, and others…
    Or “You support reparations to the decedents of Slaves?” Fine, we’ll give them your paycheck, we’ll raise your taxes.” Again, not a word about the trillions and trillions stolen by corrupts mineral, and resource extraction corporations.
    Anti-American ‘New Centurions’ always have an answer. It doesn’t matter if it makes no sense. Or it’s just plain stupid narrow thinking. As long as they go away thinking they’ve “Won” something. Just like all Carny Rubes.

  56. May 10, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    In a city of 30,000 like Eureka there must be 1,500 to 2,000 full blown alchoholics, there can’t be more than 150-200 heroin addicts total. Put it in perspective. Alcohol takes a far higher toll than heroin and meth put together in crime, violence and social disintegration.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  57. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 6:23 pm

    If Eureka and Arcata didn’t welcome these losers with all their services they wouldn’t be inundated with these parasites.

  58. May 10, 2011 at 6:27 pm

    taxed,

    Do you think that homeless people hitchhike 400 miles from the bay area or 900 miles from San Diego to dine at St. Vincents? Explain.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  59. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 6:34 pm

    Actually I do think that they travel here for our services, It’s not exactly like they are used to staying at the Ritz.

  60. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    If we didn’t have these services do you think they would be here?

  61. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    taxed,

    What are these exceptional services that is drawing the homeless here? Really. How are services in Eureka superior to those in, say, Ukiah or Crescent City?

    Is it that people come for the great employment opportunities? Is it the rumor that a methadone clinic might someday be started? Cheaper heroin? Cheaper gas?

    Do tell.

  62. Mitch
    May 10, 2011 at 6:43 pm

    Ah, if we didn’t have services, they wouldn’t come.

    Unless they did. And if, by chance, someone didn’t hear about the fact that Eureka no longer had superior care for the heroin addict, and came here, what would you do?

    Would you leave them on the street? It’s a downer for business.

    Would you arrest them? Great, you’ll not only pay for their food and shelter, you’ll pay for their medical care while housed in the jail.

    I know, buy them a bus ticket for Santa Rosa!

    Hmmm. What if the fine citizens of Santa Rosa didn’t like that idea and sent some of their heroin addicts here?

    Maybe threaten war against Santa Rosa?

    I’m just trying to help. Surely you’ve thought through what you mean when you propose eliminating the exceptional services your taxes provide these freeloaders. So what’s the full plan?

  63. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 6:51 pm

    You guys have your head in the sand. Where do you live? Have you been outside of Humboldt in the past 40 years? Do these other 2 places have a Rescue Mission, St Vinney’s, a MAC Center the needle wagon and traveling hospital, have most of the motels on 101 turned into flop houses, have a huge number of historic homes turned into slum housing, Free showers for the homeless, Phil Crandall concentrating on making Eureka the capitol of his kingdom, social workers out the wazoo, etc.

  64. May 10, 2011 at 6:57 pm

    If Eureka built some more affordable housing the demand for roach coach motels would go down. I promise you.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  65. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 7:02 pm

    Bill, Eureka is the most affordable place in California. You and your affordable housing crap.

  66. May 10, 2011 at 7:10 pm

    People living in motels – and there are hundreds of them in Eureka – pay anywhere from $700 to over $1,000 a month for a ROOM with no kitchen. That is not “affordable housing.” On top of that they get zinged with the TOT. How would you like to pay a TOT tax on your home?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  67. taxed
    May 10, 2011 at 7:14 pm

    Most of them are on the dole.

  68. May 10, 2011 at 7:23 pm

    The dole? Are you talking about CalWorks? Three hundred dollars or so a month? Minus the “housing fee” that the county deducts?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  69. May 10, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Last year’s Humboldt County Health and Human Services budget was $146,000,000, or $1,131 for every man, woman and child in Humboldt County. Phil Crandall’s department employed 1169 people at a cost of $64,000,000, or an average of $54,000 per employee.

    Does the average social worker make that much? If not where is the money going?

    That’s some non-bang for the bucks in my opinion.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  70. tra
    May 10, 2011 at 7:55 pm

    Do these other 2 places have a Rescue Mission, St Vinney’s, a MAC Center…

    Most cities have some kind of soup kitchen, food pantry, and shelter programs. And of course food stamps, MediCal and other federal and state-funded benefits don’t vary from county to county or city to city.

    But not all cities have the free shower program, so I guess it must be that lure of a hot shower that creates the irresistable “magnet” for the droves of out-of-area homeless people who are supposedly flooding in here and overwhelming our community with their shower-needing ways.

  71. Charlie Bean
    May 10, 2011 at 8:10 pm

    “Sonia Baur, M.D. says:

    May 9, 2011 at 11:31 pm

    Drug addiction is public health problem which should be dealt with by medical professionals trained in the treatment of that type of illness; it should not be clogging up the criminal-justice and prison system. Perhaps, with any luck, Paul Gallegos and Dr. Ann Lindsay can get together, overcome many obstacles and open a county drug-addiction clinic to deal with the problem.”

    Part of the issue goes with the stigma that is associated wih individuals who use drugs and are considered in need of mental therapy. Also the lack of funding is not there.

  72. High Finance
    May 11, 2011 at 7:52 am

    bill, first the long term tenants don’t pay near as much as over night tourists at motels, they get a big discount.

    Second, the TOT does not apply to people staying more than 30 days.

    Third, look at the terrible facts (assuming you are correct) you posted at 7.35pm. Humboldt County government alone spends $1,131 FOR EVERY MAN, WOMAN & CHILD living in the county on welfare and related benefits for the unemployed. That means a hard working family of four is taxed $4,500 + to support people who sit on their fannies all day !

    And you people want to attract MORE of them with legalized drugs, Methadone clinics, free needles, pot “clinics”, free food, free showers, free clothes and free housing ??????

  73. May 11, 2011 at 8:15 am

    Hi Finance,

    There are several shithole motels on East 5th and East 4th St. in Eureka and you won’t get a room there for less than $200 a week (most of them are more.) You are simply wrong about that. A discount from $1000 a month to $800 a month is pretty meaningless if your income is $800 a month (which is take home from a minimum wage job.)

    The way the TOT works in these shitholes is that most poor people who are living in motels DON’T have enough money to last the whole month. By week 3 or 4 they are out of money and spend the rest of the month couch surfing or sleeping in their cars. Therefore the TOT starts for them again the very next month. Those few who can make it to the end of the month are forced to check out for a day or two, and then check back in after the first of the month. They get nailed with the TOT too. You are spreading misinformation, perhaps you are just ignorant of the real situation of these poor people.

    I agree that the county is spending a shitpile of money on Health and Human Services. It looks to me like 1% of the total workforce in Humboldt County is employed by one county department. What we have is obviously a case of bureaucratic empire building. I doubt seriously if social workers (at least the bulk of them) make $54000 a year in compensation, and there are lots of county workers making at the low end of the scale, so how does that average get so high?

    How much of it is going to homeless services? Not much. 1% of the HHS budget would be $1.5 million per year. I don’t believe HHS is even spending 1% on homeless people. Do you? If so where? The “free food” the showers and the mission are all private charities they are not being paid for by the taxpayers.

    And let’s accept for a moment your premise that services draw people to this area. I don’t believe it but for sake of argument I will acccept it.

    We can stipulate that half of the homeless here in Humboldt are from other areas and that somehow we could differentiate them and cut them off. How about the half that were born and raised here? Your argument collapsed.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  74. Mitch
    May 11, 2011 at 8:23 am

    Phil Crandall’s Department of Health and Human Services exists to get federal money and pay layer after layer of incompetent managers and “analysts.” The only welfare it gives away is to its management, which should be unemployable.

    There are many well-intentioned people involved in client contact at the agency; there are also many low level workers in administration who are dedicated, until they’ve discovered how little they are valued or listened to.

    The department is a complete do-over, and it’s the fault of the entire Board of Supervisors. Perhaps Crandall has sex tapes of every Supervisor.

  75. Anonymous
    May 11, 2011 at 8:52 am

    The city bought the Serenity Inn and
    several other druggie flop houses and
    drug rehabs.

  76. May 11, 2011 at 9:40 am

    852 when did this happen, and how much did the city pay?

    Because AFAIK the Serenity is owned by a private party who has a contract with the county.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  77. Reinventing The Wheel
    May 11, 2011 at 11:58 am

    Thanks Bill!!

    I have NEVER read the kind of financial detail you have provided here in ANY local media! Instead, we get the occasional slumming safari where today’s “reporter”, aka human-interest junkie, visits a homeless camp.

    Hence, the unbelievable ignorance and bigotry regarding the poor, and the lack of outrage over non-existent affordable housing, job, training and placement programs.

    However, I have spoken with many professionals in the field who say the same thing: When people fall on hard times and homelessness, they typically return to familiar places where they were raised or had a friend.

    The crap about the quality and quantity of free services only serves the ignorant bigots.

  78. Mitch
    May 11, 2011 at 12:14 pm
  79. Reinventing The Wheel
    May 11, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Budgets do not reflect the kind of on-the-ground realities revealed by Bill.

    But, it would be fascinating if we had reporters/editors capable and willing to have a number cruncher determine the actual % of the HHS budget that reaches the poor, or to report the actual economic realities surrounding local poverty and homelessness, much like Barbara Ehrenreich revealed in her books Bait and Switch or Nickle and Dimed.

    Does it really take a (Ehrenreich’s) PhD in Microbiology to do that??

  80. Mitch
    May 11, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    I’d bet that the total amount LOANED in a year under General Relief is well less than the combined salaries of Crandall and his top five managers. Maybe less than Crandall’s salary all by itself. And it’s a loan, that they’ll try to collect through the Franchise Tax Board if the recipient ever gets an income.

    Admittedly, that’s General Relief, not AFDC (or whatever acronym that goes by these days). But I’m not sure even HiFi wants to see infants starving just because their parents have no income.

  81. Plain Jane
    May 11, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    I did the math and it came out to $48+K per employee for wages and benefits which doesn’t sound all that outrageous to me considering that many, if not most, have college degrees, and management salaries and benefits would be higher, making the average for non-supervisors lower.

  82. Down the Road
    May 11, 2011 at 1:33 pm

    The city didn’t actually buy the Serenity Inn and
    many of the other flop houses. Look at the General
    Plan. They loaned the money to these different
    parasite quasi rehab. facilities from the redevelopment
    agency (also known as the city). Some did have deferred
    loans. This was all done in the 90’s. I believe some
    are still making payments. Follow the money trail and
    you will know why the Serenity Inn is still open
    after having 450 police calls over a 2 year period.
    In an honest environment this outfit would be shut
    down.

    If you want to know the drug statistics call the
    health dept.

  83. May 11, 2011 at 3:44 pm

    As was mentioned earlier, not everyone burdened with these addictions ends up on the streets. James Taylor was famously hooked on heroin for much if not most of his career. Sigmund Freud used cocaine. These are just two examples. In fact, in countries where heroin is available from the government, most junkies can hold down jobs and be a productive part of society. Most crime associated with drug use is due to the artificially high price which comes from prohibition. Junkies don’t rob out of boredom, they do it for the money. The same can not be said for most crime associated with alcohol, which tends to be violence and drunk driving, neither of which are common with heroin or cocaine users.

  84. Not A Native
    May 11, 2011 at 4:30 pm

    Gee Richard, you’re correct. But how else can the ‘pot is harmless and good medicine’ crowd differentiate their debilitating drug of choice from those evil drugs they smear with the label ‘hard’? Fact is, while stimulant drugs do hasten the ageing process, they don’t destroy peoples’ desire to actively participate in productive lives.

    Its the psychedelics and depressant drugs(like recently created high potency pot) that destroy initiative, mediate a self-absorbed delusional worldview, and result in lethargy and listlessnesss. And thats the desired effect, sought out by those who feel overwhelmed or unable to fulfill the demands that being productive and mentally directed requires of them.

    Having already been affected by their false reality perceptions, the proponents honestly but wrongly assert that being useless to oneself and others is actually the virtue of ‘not being violent’.

  85. May 11, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    You are correct Not A Native the use of meth is encouraged by the bosses in certain work situations for the reasons you mention, because people will work harder and longer in adverse conditions under its influence.

    Meth use is endemic – and tacitly endorsed – by people running businesses involving hard physical labor like warehouses, food processing plants, manufacturing plants.

    Despite this still only a percentage of these workers ever get addicted to meth. They are just using it to survive a brutal work environment.

    The bosses are happy that their employees use meth also because it gives them a good excuse to fire the employee if they ever step out of line. From their point of view, any legal or supply problems with the meth is the employees. Just show up, put in your 12 hour shift and shut the fuck up.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  86. May 11, 2011 at 5:29 pm

    Plain Jane,

    I would say a salary and bennies of $40-$50,000 or so is not outrageous for a social worker with a MSW. That’s a graduate level degree.

    How many of the 1,169 department workers have MSWs? 100? 200? I would guess less than a hundred but I could be wrong that’s just a guess. Let’s back their number and their salaries out of the equation and see what’s left.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  87. Mitch
    May 11, 2011 at 5:35 pm

    Bill,

    The problem at DHHS is not that the client-contact workers are paid too much. The problem is the overwhelming incompetence of the department’s management, and the unwillingness of the BoS to do anything about it.

    Compare the average employee turnover rate at DHHS with a similar department in any other county.

  88. May 11, 2011 at 5:43 pm

    Yes Mitch I agree that the pay of social workers is likely not the problem as I indicated to PJ.

    Most likely there is a situation where there are 100 “managers” to “manage” 100 social workers.

    But there is still an economic problem. The employees of this one department constitute a significant portion of the county’s economy. If you just cut them you are “job killing” just as much as any supposed regulations so hated by the right. To the person whose job is “killed” it doesn’t matter. And our local economy will suffer for a while.

    If there is an oversize bureaucracy in the department it should be corrected but slowly and gently.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  89. Mitch
    May 11, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    The employees, including the over-heavy bureaucracy, could accomplish a lot to benefit the entire county. You just need to dump the top ten people at the department… Crandall and all the sycophants he’s installed as his top managers.

    It won’t happen. I don’t know why. You’re right that it’s an enormous waste of a resource.

  90. May 11, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Mitch, we are in agreement I call your attention to my post of May 3 here @ HH:

    https://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2011/05/01/quote-of-the-day-12/#comment-141230

    Crandall has the loyalty of many of his bureaucracy of course (but it would be nice to hear from some social workers and other employees about conditions in the department) plus he has allies in numerous local “non-profits” that are dependent upon the county for significant revenue. Follow the money. He can be deposed but it will be like deposing Mubarak.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  91. High Finance
    May 11, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    bill, 8.15am. You are simply wrong.

    50% of those motel room are TOT exempt. Look up the reports for yourself. The others are not going for $800 a month for the long termers but $600-800 per month tops.

    And the take home for a minimum wage person is not $800 per month but is over $1,200 per month and that is BEFORE the Earned Income Credit.

    George, before you congratulate Bill on his fiscal numbers you might want to think wait & find out whether they are correct or not.

  92. Anonymous
    May 11, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    The last I heard the Serenity Inn paid no property tax.

  93. May 11, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    So, what about a mobile methadone clinic.

  94. May 11, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    Hi Finance,

    Four years ago when I came to town my gf and I got trapped in one of those palaces for six months. We paid $250 per week, there was no monthly discount offered so my monthly output for rent was at least $1,000 PLUS TOT. The TOT was never waived not even once. Twice in the six months they made us move out for 2 days.

    I have lived what I am talking about. You are out to lunch.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  95. May 11, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    The kind of full time minimum wage job that you describe has largely disappeared, they have been replaced by temp agency jobs that typically provide less than 32 hours per week. There is a reason for that. It is not enough hours to be eligible for benefits. Minimum wage temp workers are LUCKY to pull down 200 take home.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  96. Mr. Nice
    May 11, 2011 at 9:41 pm

    Both y’all hella bad at minimum wage math.

    Yochum kept his count tight. He was pitching $15 bags. They found his ass with $330 in cash and exactly fucking 2.8g of some 0.33 or 0.25 heroin. $330 in $15 sacks is 2.2gs. 2.2 + 2.8 is 5.

    That ain’t even doubling up. He prolly had customers down lined up the block.

    And folks still wonder why minimum wage people can’t pay the rent and turn to selling dope.

  97. Anonymous
    May 12, 2011 at 5:03 am

    99.9% of all heroin sold and used in California comes from Mexico. Most Mexican heroin is produced in the State of Sinaloa. It is smuggled into California (and other states) by Mexican National drug organizations and distributed by other Mexican Nationals. Columbian or Afganistan heroin goes to the east coast and Europe. With a little internet research this information is available.

    Heroin use is a public health problem because drug users make it one. A methadone clinic will just attract other addicts and non productive persons to the area.

  98. May 12, 2011 at 8:25 am

    If a methodone clinic were established here the result would be that gangsters from SF, Oakland, LA and Mexico would not come here to try to sell heroin becuase there would not be any profit in it.

    There are local interests who make big $ off the heroin trade and they don’t like competition. Not from Mexicans – and not from free methadone either.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  99. High Finance
    May 12, 2011 at 9:11 am

    Bill, you’re making up stuff again in your post at 7.41pm. IF you stayed in the motel for six months, YOU DID NOT PAY THE TOT !

    And your claim the motel made you move out so you would ? Why on earth would they do that ? The motel does not get the TOT, the city does. The motel has no interest in whether you pay it or not.

  100. May 12, 2011 at 9:25 am

    The motel made everyone move out for a day or two. We weren’t the only ones. We assumed that they were doing it at the request of the city to boost revenue.

    In Eureka there is no cumulative limit on TOT collection like there is in other cities. In other cities a motel resident is exempt from TOT after four weeks or so cumulative residence in a calendar year period. It is the fair way to do it.

    I have addressed this issue several times in person at the Eureka City Council and have been greeted by collective yawns. After four years here I conclude that addressing this council is a waste of time. It is a rubber stamp body.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  101. Plain Jane
    May 12, 2011 at 9:37 am

    I think Mark Sailor’s idea of mobile clinics is a good one to look at. It would probably take more than one in such a large county due to the need for daily doses, but they would make access easier for addicts over the entire county and decrease the need for them all to relocate to be near a clinic. It may even be cheaper long term than a stationary clinic.

  102. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 9:46 am

    I did a little research and from what I can conclude, methadone is a highly addictive opiate that is simply a step down from heroin. The treatment programs that use methadone say that it has to be used in a very controlled manner where you slowly reduced the amount given to the addict until they can make it without the drug. I’m not sure driving around the county dispensing a highly addictive opiate is the best way to use our dwindling tax dollars unless someone can provide some evidence that a program like this will help get people past their opiate addictions. Otherwise, what is the objective of the program?

  103. May 12, 2011 at 9:50 am

    The Seroquel (an anti-psychotic med) that the county pushes on people is more dangerous than heroin. The death rate for people taking seroquel is twice that of a similar control population not taking it.

    I would much rather see a mobile clinic dispensing methadone or heroin at safe maintenance doses than a mobile clinic that dispenses seroquel.

    When you see some poor human sitting on a curb and drooling he or she is most likely someone who is being compliant with a legal, prescibed dose of seroquel or similar antipsychotic. They are rendered incoherent.

    When you see someone standing in one place shifting weight from one leg to another or someone with a facial tic they have tardive diskinesia that is also a “side effect” of seroquel. Tardive diskinesia is permanent, it persists even after people stop taking this drug. Anyone with tardive diskinesia is done with their working life – they are functionally unemployable.

    The drugs like seroquel are very expensive, $5 to $10 a day or more, and often this is paid for by the county. That is one explanation for where some of the HHS budget goes.

    A heroin/methadone maintenance clinic of some sort will take most of the profit out of the local heroin trade. What’s bad about that?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  104. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 9:54 am

    Can you legally dispense heroin Bill?

  105. May 12, 2011 at 9:57 am

    Teacher, setting aside some sociological arguments, it might cost the taxpayers $10.00 a day to maintain the habit of a heroin addict, while it might cost $200 a day to house them in jail or prison.

    If you don’t like those two alternatives you have the in between status quo where violence prone heroin dealers exploit the addicts. There is a high cost to the taxpayer here too, in policing, legal system resources and lost property values.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  106. May 12, 2011 at 9:59 am

    Teacher,

    I don’t know but I suspect that a doctor could prescribe it. Or some kind of opiate very close to it, don’t you?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  107. May 12, 2011 at 10:04 am

    Teacher,

    I will make it explicit for you. Humboldt County/ City of Eureka already has a free heroin/methadone maintenance clinic. They just don’t offer the addicts methadone or heroin. They offer the addicts some seroquel or risperdone, and wait for them to die.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  108. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 10:07 am

    I don’t know to be honest. The cost effective argument is very well said. I agree with you. The tough sell is where to put the clinic and what will it cost to fund the clinic. If the county could show that it was a net savings, I think it would have lots of support.
    On a moral level, it bothers me to think of a bus pulling up in Willow Creek or other rural areas and doling out opiates to addicts. The thing about incarceration is that it is supposed to rehabilate people (in theory). After being in jail, maybe they’ll reform and quit. Giving them drugs seems like giving up on people, families, and some communities even.

  109. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 10:09 am

    Bill, if we already have similar services, then that doesn’t support the tax relief/ cost effeciency argument because I can assure are jails are still burdened with heroin addicts. Will the majority of addicts stop using heroin because they can get methadone instead of seroquel?

  110. Plain Jane
    May 12, 2011 at 10:10 am

    Methadone is an opiate agonist, a synthetic opioid (opiate-like) narcotic which blocks heroin receptors while relieving pain without the high. People who take it but still want to get high can’t do so with heroin so they combine it with other pharmaceuticals. I doubt the risk to mobile clinics is any greater than to stationary clinics and pharmacies which stock narcotics.

  111. May 12, 2011 at 10:16 am

    “Anonymous says:
    May 12, 2011 at 5:03 am

    99.9% of all heroin sold and used in California comes from Mexico. Most Mexican heroin is produced in the State of Sinaloa. It is smuggled into California (and other states) by Mexican National drug organizations and distributed by other Mexican Nationals. Columbian or Afganistan heroin goes to the east coast and Europe. With a little internet research this information is available.

    Heroin use is a public health problem because drug users make it one. A methadone clinic will just attract other addicts and non productive persons to the area.”

    Although that is correct, APD has taken out at least one house that was making heroin. I predict that when pot is legalized, the criminal element that is making huge profits from the cannabis trade will convert to growing poppies and producing domestic heroin. They will not move to making meth, as it takes some actual scientific method and skill to make meth and not blow up the neighborhood.

  112. May 12, 2011 at 10:34 am

    Teacher,

    Drug maintenance programs are not designed to cure people of their addictions. They are designed to minimize the negative effects of the addict on the rest of us at a less expensive cost than incarceraation or hospitalization.

    Most addicts will stay addicts. But in the places where maintenance programs have been tried (and this includes alcohol programs where hopeless alkies are given two glasses of red wine per day) it turns out that the addicts have daily contact with social workers/health department and the percentage that really want to quit or taper off have the chance to do so.

    And again I don’t believe that a methadone clinic would draw addicts from elsewhere but even if a few came here there would still be the positive of the exit of violence prone drug pushing gang bangers.

    No profit = no organized crime.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  113. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 10:53 am

    Bill, I am pretty ignorant as to the implementation and effectiveness of said programs. Do you know where there is any good information on these programs? They sound like good ideas but they do bring up questions. For example, Eureka is over-run with drug addicts and they fill our jail costing us lots of money. If we already have a methadone clinic, why do we still have all these problems with heroin addicts? If the clinics stop the illegal drug trade, then it’s a no brainer as Mark referenced. If it doesn’t even curb the drug trade however, then what is the point? Is there any evidence that clinics reduce crime, help communities, and/or individual users?

  114. May 12, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Teacher, below you will find excerpts on the topic from wikipedia. If you use the google on “heroin maintence programs” or “harm reduction” you will find much more. The full wiki article is worth reading for anyone who wants to be informed on this topic.

    Heroin maintenance programsMain article: Heroin assisted treatment

    Providing a medical prescription for pharmaceutical heroin (diamorphine) to heroin addicts has been seen in some countries as a way of solving the ‘heroin problem’ with potential benefits to the individual addict and to society. The treatment greatly improves the social and health situation of patients, while reducing costs incurred by delinquency, criminal trials, incarceration and health interventions.[5][6]

    In Switzerland, heroin assisted treatment is fully a part of the national health program. There are several dozen centers throughout the country at which heroin-dependent people can receive heroin in a controlled environment. The Swiss heroin maintenance program is generally regarded as a successful and valuable component of the country’s overall approach to minimizing the harms caused by drug use.[7] In a 2008 national referendum a majority of 68% voted in favor of continuing the program.[8]

    The Netherlands has studied medically supervised heroin maintenance.[9] A German study of long-term heroin addicts demonstrated that diamorphine was significantly more effective than methadone in keeping patients in treatment and in improving their health and social situation.[10] Many participants were able to find employment, some even started a family after years of homelessness and delinquency.[11][12] Since then, treatment had continued in the cities that participated in the pilot study, until heroin maintenance was permanently included into the national health system in May, 2009.[13][dated info]

    A substantial part of the money for buying heroin is obtained through criminal activities, such as robbery or drug dealing.[citation needed] King’s Health Partners notes that the cost of providing free heroin for a year is about one-third of the cost of placing the user in prison for a year, making it cost-effective even without perfect outcomes.[19][20]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_reduction

  115. tra
    May 12, 2011 at 11:11 am

    Teacher,

    I think Bill confused the issue a bit with his 10:04 comment, where he said:

    Humboldt County/ City of Eureka already has a free heroin/methadone maintenance clinic. They just don’t offer the addicts methadone or heroin. They offer the addicts some seroquel or risperdone, and wait for them to die.

    I think what he’s saying is that they will give people seroquel or risperdone, but not methadone. So the idea is that an actual methadone clinic, where addicts can actually get methadone (not seroquel or risperdone), would be a better approach.

  116. tra
    May 12, 2011 at 11:20 am

    King’s Health Partners notes that the cost of providing free heroin for a year is about one-third of the cost of placing the user in prison for a year, making it cost-effective even without perfect outcomes.

    The fiscal comparison here relies on a faulty assumption. Can you spot it?

    Meanwhile — Free government-funded heroin? Ummmm, no…I don’t think too many people are going to go for that. Methadone, as a way to stay off heroin, maybe.

  117. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 11:22 am

    Thanks for the info Bill. You should forward it to the Times-Standard when the debate for expanding the clinics services comes up. I think it is a persuasive argument.

  118. May 12, 2011 at 11:29 am

    If the criminalization/incarceration model works in real life then you have to assume that the addict is in jail and getting “reformed.” Otherwise the model is just silly it won’t work at all. We get the negatives of the active addicts amongst us plus the added cost of policing.

    I will say this again. There is heroin for sale in Eureka and it is for sale because there are local interests that are selling it. That’s not going to stop in spite of a weekly POP raid here and there, no matter how well intentioned. The POP raids are just putting the competition out of business. I’m not dissing the POPper coppers, they might not know their true role in enforcing the monopoly.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  119. High Finance
    May 12, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    Heroin for free is a screwy idea that ignores human nature.

    What does General Mills do when they want to sell more of a cereal ? They make it cheaper, easier to get and socially acceptable.

    They make it cheaper by bringing down the price. They make it easier to get by putting it in more grocery stores. They make it more socially acceptable by toting its healthy traits.

    That is exactly what is happening to pot today. Now Bill (and others) are advocating the same thing for heroin ???

  120. High Sugar Content
    May 12, 2011 at 12:33 pm

    High Finance says:
    May 12, 2011 at 12:21 pm

    What does General Mills do when they want to sell more of a cereal ?

    They buy the competition, duh! I can not believe you ask such stoopid questions HIFi.
    “Breakfast cereals include Basic 4, Boo Berry, Buc Wheats, Cheerios and its variants, Chex, Cinnamon Toast Crunch, Cocoa Puffs, Cookie Crisp, Count Chocula, Crazy Cow, Fiber One, Franken Berry, French Toast Crunch, General Mills Kaboom, Gold Flakes, Golden Grahams, Chocolate Golden Grahams, Hidden Treasures, Honey Nut Clusters, Jurassic Park Crunch, Kix, Lucky Charms, Oatmeal Crisp, Raisin Nut Bran, Reese’s Puffs, Total, Trix, and Wheaties.”

  121. High Teacher/Financier
    May 12, 2011 at 12:55 pm

    “Narcissism is the personality trait of egotism, vanity, conceit, or simple selfishness. Applied to a social group, it is sometimes used to denote elitism or an indifference to the plight of others. Some experts believe a disproportionate number of pathological narcissists are at work in the most influential reaches of society such as medicine, finance and politics. (5)”
    http://www.businessday.co.za/Articles/Content.aspx?id=130981

  122. May 12, 2011 at 1:03 pm

    Hi Finance,

    The issue before us is a methadone clinic, not a free heroin clinic. I personally think a heroin clinic would work better and I have given examples of the principle of harm reductuion but a methadone clinic would be a start.

    So you are wielding a fake argument against something (heroin clinics) that have not been proposed. No debating points for you. If you substitute the correct subject your argument is totally meaningless.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  123. May 12, 2011 at 1:06 pm

    General Mills had to make cereal “socially acceptable?”

    Huh?

    What they did actually was take a natural food grain and add sugar, salt, artificial colors and flavors to make the natural product into an addictive substance.

    If you don’t think kids can’t get addicted to Coco Puffs your parental experience is quite limited.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  124. Teacher
    May 12, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    I’m enjoying the debate between HiFi and Bill and amazed neither one of you seem to see the others point-of-view. Bill, if the clinics were cost effective and helped to reduce crime, that would be great (right HiFi?). But, if cheaper and more readily available forms of opium led to higher opium use and more subsequent addiction, that would be bad (right Bill).
    It’s possible that you are both bringing up good points that should be considered. I don’t think anyone, even Plain Jane, knows one way or the other. I can’t understand how you both seem reasonably intelligent yet you can’t seem to understand the reasoning behind the other person’s point-of-view.

  125. Condescending Narcissist
    May 12, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    [kon-duh-sen-ding]
    –adjective
    Showing or implying a usually patronizing descent from dignity or superiority: They resented the older neighbors’ condescending cordiality.

  126. Not A Native
    May 12, 2011 at 2:38 pm

    Here’s an interesting article that asks if policy is the reason ADHD drugs are in short supply. It offers the slant that drugs which are perceived to augment desired bahaviors are acceptable, more or less what Bill maintains and probably what Hi Fi can agree with. The debate is over what behaviors are actually the result of drugs. excerpt below:

    Despite the fact that opioids actually increase productivity in pain patients, just as stimulants do for people with ADHD — by getting them back to work and family life — this is not these drugs’ main public image. And, unfortunately, when it comes to dealing with drugs, image trumps research and symbolism beats effective policy every time.

  127. May 12, 2011 at 4:45 pm

    Not A Native

    That is an interesting article considering it is mainstream Time mag, and it is a pretty accurate portrayal of reality in my opinion. One even wonders whether the writer of the article might find professional benefit in some Adderal or some such.
    The DEA is a rogue agency, out of control but working as enforcers for Big Pharma. Big Pharma sees all illicit drugs, all unpatendable drugs (opium, coca, amphetamine) all herbal preparations and some technologies as competition for their patented high price designer drugs, and the DEA is willing to get physical for them.

    And the writer points out what I said yesterday in my response to you, that stimulants are tacitly endorsed by the bosses in the workplace. Anyone who has worked in real work situations like I have has had to compete with other employees who are clearly cranking it. Very often they get the promotions and the raises. The bosses see that they can work harder and they wink at the drug use. It is a lesson easily learned by anyone.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  128. Anonymous
    May 12, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Always wondered how Bill found the time to be at his computer day in and day out. He collects dole money so he can get a motel room on 101 and pontificates endlessly. Curious were you on the dole when you arrived here 4 years ago Bill?

  129. Anonymous
    May 12, 2011 at 4:56 pm

    Get real dude, or Bill or Highvoltage. Supplying heroin to an addict is only part of the cost. As an addict they are non productive citizens for the most part, can’t work or no one will have them as an employee because they are unreliable and dishonest. Someone has to pay for their food, clothing, and shelter beyond the heroin. That kind of kicks up the cost a bit.

    There is a heroin problem in Humboldt but a methadone clinic is not the answer, just a way to make the clinic operater a ton of dough because the government and private insusrance will have to pay. In reality the time in jail and or prison is the only thing that in reality breaks the addiction cycle of an addict.

  130. May 12, 2011 at 4:57 pm

    Run out of arguments? No problem just start throwing feces.

    It’s a pattern.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  131. May 12, 2011 at 5:24 pm

    456 did you not read the information on harm reduction I posted this afternoon? Did you not see the actual real world results from Switzerland and the Netherlands and Germany? Did you not see that many heroin addicts are employable and once on maintenance many of them return to productivity?

    Unbelievable. But at least you were civil, thanks.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  132. High Finance
    May 12, 2011 at 5:30 pm

    My basic fear of a methadone clinic is twofold Teacher and Bill (message to stupid trolls; do not bother us with your postings).

    The fear is one; that the methadone clinics will attract more of the addicts to town (that is almost unarguable) and two: that they will have a indirect message to kids that drugs are safe to us, that there are no dire consequences (arguable).

  133. May 12, 2011 at 5:42 pm

    Hi Finance perhaps we are getting somewhere now that you are using the word “fear” and you have abandoned the usual moralizing tone. Fear is real to those who experience it so I will not discount yours.

    The point is I do not share your belief that a methadone clinic will draw a mass of addicts to this area. But perhaps we could start a pilot program, enrolling only 10 addicts, and see how it goes. After three months or so we could decide to quit it, maintain it or perhaps expand it slightly once we have some experience with it. It’s not like every decision made or every program tried needs to last forever.

    I think messages to kids about the safeness of drugs are incessant on television and how do we expect children to differenciate between good drugs and bad drugs? How many pharma ads with how many happy attractive people per hour do you see? I remember when it was illegal to advertise any drug. Maybe we should go back to that.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  134. High Finance
    May 12, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    We are already seeing addicts & homeless attracted to our area, did you read the Times Standard this morning ? At least HALF of them are like you, newly arrived in our town.

    And as for a “trial period” ? HA HA. NO government program ever ends.

  135. May 12, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    I have been here over four years, I am not “newly arrived.” I am a native Californian btw do you need my birth certificate. You are funny.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  136. May 12, 2011 at 6:19 pm

    Hi Finance are you talking about this article in todays TS?

    “But the project also had its detractors, who said it would draw homeless to the area, negatively impacting businesses and creating public safety problems. Some also feared the facility would be vandalized and destroyed.

    So far, none of that has come to pass. ”

    and Chief Nielsen:

    ”We have had no problems whatsoever down there since they’ve been opened,” he said, adding that he feels the facility is a “tremendous asset to this community.”

    http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_18047987

    Nice article High Finance it shows the generous side of Eureka. Thanks for the heads up.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  137. Anonymous
    May 12, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    No problems? In our neighborhoods there are homeless with their belongings like bedrolls and everything they own all over the neighborhood. Yesterday one of them urinated in a beer bottle and threw the urine all over my neighbors roses and tossed the bottle at the house. The problems may not be in Old Town but it sure has gotten worse in the neighborhoods. It got worse when the showers opened. And that is a fact.

  138. What Now
    May 12, 2011 at 9:07 pm

    HighlyFried(HighFinance) flatuated the following:
    “And as for a “trial period” ? HA HA. NO government program ever ends.”

    Pure kneejerk ideological crap.
    CETA,WIN,GAIN to name 3.

    You certainly can read a font 3 fine print on any of your parasitic contracts.
    Are you unable to read facts inconvenient to your flat-earth world view in print or on the net?

  139. May 12, 2011 at 9:27 pm

    What Now,

    But Hi Finance may have a point when you consider the Bush Tax cuts that were supposed to sunset in 2010 but look at them now.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  140. Mr. Nice
    May 12, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Again y’all talk about shit y’all got no clue about. Except highboltage on TOT, you got that straight.

    Teacher was saying

    he thing about incarceration is that it is supposed to rehabilate people (in theory). After being in jail, maybe they’ll reform and quit. Giving them drugs seems like giving up on people, families, and some communities even.

    Bullshit dude. Because

    While Yochum was in custody, officers received reports that Yochum possessed heroin. On Feb 25, 2011, facility staff searched Yochum and his belongings and discovered a bag containing 16.1 grams of heroin in Yochum’s mattress.

    Think about it. Putting fiends in jail to “clean” them up (clean, torture, same shit) while also tossing the same folks on the come up in with them. The fuck you think is gonna happen? Selling dope outside? Selling dope inside.

    High Finance was seen bullshitting

    The fear is one; that the methadone clinics will attract more of the addicts to town (that is almost unarguable)

    Bullshit. Methadone only attracts folks who are already trying to clean up or aren’t that addicted to heroin. Real dope fiends want heroin, not no pussy ass methadone. When fiends take methadone, they can’t even get a rush off heroin because they build tolerance. No hardcore, stealing your gas, check fraudster, breaking in your car for the GPS ass dope fiend is gonna take some shit on purpose that makes heroin weaker. They are “attracted” to one thing: good ass heroin. Eureka has alright heroin, so I’ve heard. This dude sounds like he was prolly pushing glassine bags full of fentanyl laced shit, although the story doesn’t say shit about what it was.

  141. Down the Road
    May 13, 2011 at 8:45 am

    I was told by a native law enforcement officer that in
    the middle 60’s welfare programs started arriving in
    Humboldt County. Welfare workers went into the streets
    and started pulling people into the welfare system.
    Obviously, they were very successful. The welfare
    system is now huge and has encouraged a level of
    society that think welfare is a career. In this case,
    the saying “Build it and they will come”, is true.

    You may include me in Hi-Fi’s “Troll” remark. I think Bill is full of BS and I am surprised that the
    library hasn’t cut off the use of their computers to
    him.

  142. Plain Jane
    May 13, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Down the Road has made several very questionable statements. Repeating hearsay about welfare workers pulling people off the streets into the welfare program is just ridiculous. But why would anyone be surprised that the library hasn’t shut of the use of their (our) computers because he (they?) doesn’t agree with what an (alleged) user of that computer says? DTR doesn’t rise to the level of troll.

  143. May 13, 2011 at 9:22 am

    Down the Road,

    Not only do I charm the librarians into using their computers all day long, I have charmed them into letting me live there. Obvious, since I post here often hours before and after opening and even once in a while on holidays.

    Get a clue. Anyone with any sense can see right through you.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  144. May 13, 2011 at 9:26 am

    Down the road,

    I have heard that there are about 3,000 Humboldtians in the CalWorks program. Since unemployment is at least 10% why would it shock you that a third of them might need public assisstance. You can’t just tell people to “get a job” if there are no jobs available.

    The welfare bureaucracy may be too large, I tend to agree, but the case load of recipients is not unreasonable in my opinion given current economic conditions.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  145. Mitch
    May 13, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Down the Road,

    Law enforcement officers have to deal day-in, day-out with those people in any community who are hardest to deal with and who have caused other people problems sufficient that they called 911.

    That gives them an interesting point-of-view. Interesting, but probably skewed in a not necessarily accurate direction, regarding people as a whole.

    That’s no different from what may happen to many ivory tower academics at, say, Harvard: they get the opposite skew in their attitudes about people.

    The truth is probably somewhere in-between, wouldn’t you think?

  146. pluto
    May 13, 2011 at 10:01 am

    You are wrong Mitch. You either do not live in Eureka or never look around. If You did you would see the over concentration of freeloaders. There have been articles how the whole thing started in Arcata-encouraging people to come and take advantage of services. I heard the same thing from a friend who was a social worker here in the sixty’s about them basically going out to recruit welfare recipients in Eureka.

  147. Plain Jane
    May 13, 2011 at 10:04 am

    You have links to these articles, Pluto? Or did someone just tell you about them?

  148. pluto
    May 13, 2011 at 10:17 am

    highboltage Of course you do not see a problem or find the numbers unreasonable. You are one of those taking advantage of the system. Cal Works is only one thing on the list of the numerous and various types of handouts and dole.

  149. pluto
    May 13, 2011 at 10:28 am

    There have been many articles over the years about how things get started.

  150. May 13, 2011 at 10:34 am

    So pluto where are the jobs for these 3,000 people?

    Maybe you would like it better if they were all lined up on Broadway flying signs?

    I know you would really like it if they just left.

    That would put a hole in the local economy. The poor spend ALL their money here. The rich spend their money in Thailand and Costa Rica.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  151. Fact Checker
    May 13, 2011 at 11:10 am

    Thanks to Myth Propagators and Spin Doctors such as High Financial Bailout, everyone is just piling on. Too often, in society and on this blog, there is no regard for the facts. Just hyperbole and opinion thinly veiled as “fact”. Too bad critical thinking skills in America are virtually non-existent.

  152. Teacher
    May 13, 2011 at 11:20 am

    Fact Checker, do you realize you just used hyperbole and opinion to criticize someone else for using hyperbole and opinion instead of fact. Now we can add irony to the list.

  153. Fact Checker
    May 13, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Teacher. I have not and I will not engage you. Your pious smugness is not worth more than the half minute I just used of the finite time I have within this mortal coil. I’m not a captive third grader, I’m a free adult.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissism

  154. Teacher
    May 13, 2011 at 11:46 am

    Deep thoughts Fact Checker. However, on the ironic note, that last post about not engaging me was written to me and engaging me. And get back to your important business of bashing HiFi without addressing the points he makes

  155. pluto
    May 13, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    I have watched Bill skew numbers many times. Why don’t you call him on the carpet, Fact Checker? Or are you one of the many freeloaders that inundate the County too?

  156. Fact Checker
    May 13, 2011 at 1:17 pm

    See previous post. “everyone is just piling on”

  157. Fact Checker
    May 13, 2011 at 1:18 pm

    Too bad critical thinking skills in America are virtually non-existent.

  158. Fact Checker
    May 13, 2011 at 1:26 pm

    pluto says:
    May 13, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    “Or are you one of the many freeloaders that inundate the County too?”

    H. Why is everyone so testy lately?

  159. May 13, 2011 at 1:32 pm

    Why don’t you call me on the carpet yourself “pluto” just point out where I have skewed numbers and we can discuss it. You don’t need the help of a fact checker surely. You can do it yourself can’t you?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  160. Down the Road
    May 13, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    Okay, Plain Ugly Jane and cohorts, let us take a little trip around Eureka. Most of this is from memory, if need be I can get the paperwork to back up what I write. Let us start with Healthy Mom’s located on H St. Their previous address
    was D & Harris, now a temporary residence for at risk
    children that could come to harm or inflict harm on
    themselves. Healthy Mom’s moved into the H street property costing the taxpayer a huge amount of money. Before the county took it over the local churches operated it at no cost to the public. But, lo and behold grant writing was discovered and the grant whores were born. When we looked at HM it was costing the taxpayer $500,000 a year to put a very few people through this program. AA meetings and CR could have accomplished the same thing. Asked how the people were doing that had gone through their program, we were told they didn’t know, it was an invasion of privacy. So, now we have the MAC center
    costing the Eureka taxpayer $50,000 alone in house
    payments a year. This is for more mothers who couldn’t get it together. Don’t know the amount this takes a year. This outfit is run by RCAA the
    master grant writers. They also have around nine
    million dollars worth of property in Humboldt County
    that no property taxes are collected on. The Redevelopment Agency of Eureka loaned RCAA on a deferred loan the money to purchase the building on
    California & Clark named the Launch Pad for older
    teenagers that need a place to stay for a while.
    RCAA also was loaned money to buy the place on T
    Street for teenagers who are runaways or have what
    some consider social problems. The Redevelopment
    Agency of Eureka also loaned money to Alcohol/Drug
    Care Service’s, Inc. They own the Serenity Inn and
    2 or 3 houses on C & 14th whose biggest output is
    body bags. We also have the Mission, St. Vincent
    De Paul, 4 or 5 facilities owned by the Viet nam Vet assoc., Eureka Housing Development Corp., Teen Challenge, Streams of Living Water Foundation and
    many others. One study done by a business owner
    in Old Town, came up with the statistics that in
    Eureka we have enough drug & alcohol facilities for
    a population of 250,000. What the miracle is that
    when the SSI runs out they are all cured. Praise
    the Lord. Hell yes, the cop is right.

  161. Plain Jane
    May 13, 2011 at 2:16 pm

    The really odd coincidence is how poverty and its associated problems increased as jobs were being offshored, welfare was being “reformed,” wealth was concentrating at the top, taxes were cut and funding for education and training programs was cut as well. Who woulda thought?

  162. Plain Jane
    May 13, 2011 at 2:21 pm

    And the housing bubble was inflating the price of homes, to purchase or rent, beyond the reach of more and more families. Another odd coincidence is how increasing poverty adds stress to the family structure, causing them to collapse.

  163. Fact Checker
    May 13, 2011 at 2:49 pm

    DTR, These are all vague generalities. I can not find any studies nor any documentation for these figures you are throwing out there. Could you give me some of your sources so I can find out more?

  164. May 13, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Down the Road, considering what you posted above do you believe that the Redevelopment Agency is a corrupt entity?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  165. retired guy
    May 13, 2011 at 4:04 pm

    What do the conservative-republican, whatever, propose to do with those who are destitute? Shoot them? They complain that these folks are poor and a drain on tax paying citizens constantly, but blame it on the dems with absolutely no realistic solutions to the problem. Seriously, what do you propose to do to solve the problem? There are people in our society who are incapable of surviving in this world without financial help, believe it or not. There are others who are lazy and are capable to care for themselves. The problem is to properly identify which is which and deal with the problem at that time. All people who fall into the homeless, or poor, category, are not there by choice.

  166. High Finance
    May 13, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    The sad thing is Retired Guy, you really don’t have a clue as to what to do except continuing the same old disastrous policies.

    Policies that have resulted in the ever continuing decline in the quality of life for everybody.

  167. tra
    May 13, 2011 at 4:37 pm

    I’m (STILL) wondering if anyone has seen any data* that would help to answer the following four questions**

    (1) Does Humboldt really have more homeless people, per capita, than the state average?

    (2) Does Humboldt really have more hard-drug addicts, per capita, than the state average?

    (3) Do Eureka or Arcata really have more homeless people, per capita, than the state average for cities of a similar size?

    (4) Do Eureka or Arcata really have more hard-drug addicts, per capita, than the state average for cities of a similar size?

    * Please cite a source.

    ** Bonus points if there’s a link where we can check it out for ourselves.

  168. We're Civilized Now
    May 13, 2011 at 4:41 pm

    The sad thing is Hi Fi, you’ve got nothing but more insults. And yes, that is sad.

  169. Anonymous
    May 13, 2011 at 4:53 pm

    Fact checker must be need to town. He certainly has not listened to meetings at the planning commission and city council. Of course it isn’t in neon, but DTR has just hit the tip of the iceberg on this one.

  170. Anonymous
    May 13, 2011 at 4:59 pm

    What has happened in Humboldt and especially Eureka didn’t happen because the economy tanked. It took many years to create this unhealthy situation. 4:53 meant to say new not need…

  171. Anonymous
    May 13, 2011 at 7:40 pm

    Retired guy at 4:04 speaks to the situation perfectly, Imo.

  172. May 13, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    High Finance @ 434

    “Policies that have resulted in the ever continuing decline in the quality of life for everybody.”

    Elected Ronald Reagan 30 years ago, promised shining supply sided city on a hill, 30 years of steadily declining purchasing power for American workers, 30 years of accumulation of more and more wealth in fewer and fewer hands.

    You are so right High Finance. That senile old fool Ronald Reagan fucked us good with his polices.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  173. Be Angry
    May 14, 2011 at 12:50 am

    You nailed it Bill.

    The Reagan era began a generation of privatization, deregulation and public divestment that shifted national problems of poverty, pollution, corruption, affordable housing, employment, mental illness and welfare back onto municipalities. Ronald “Welfare Queen” Reagan began corporate-welfare in earnest with one of America’s first bailouts to General Motors, (that GM promptly used to open its first plant in Mexico!).

    Local governments are ill-equipped to pickup the pieces, which provides propagandists with the opportunity to say, “see, RCAA cost us a big building and doesn’t help enough youths”(DTR 1:57)!

    “Let’s attack RCAA”!

    Never mind that Ronald Reagan cut the California Employment Training Administration that cost Humboldt County $13 million a year for employer-incentives to hire and train our youths! It would take numerous RCAA’s to fill the gap left by C.E.T.A. alone.

    This thread reflects the same tired game being played on Fox “News” by propagandists: treat history as if it just started!

    What bailouts? What looting? What gov/corporate collusion? Thousands of daily foreclosures and bankruptcies are continuing? We have record poverty, unemployment and income disparity? There’s still job exports, tax havens, and foreign child labor? Record extinction events?

    ALL NEATLY SELF-CENSORED by media, movies, academia, and gov. regulators. A censorship so effective that this blog even sports a few dimwits fixated on the speck of RCAA while oblivious to the logjam of public-divestment, corruption, and trillions being looted from the U.S. Treasury.

    It would be “sad”, if it weren’t so traitorous.

  174. Down the Road
    May 14, 2011 at 9:34 am

    Fact Checker: Go buy the General Plan from the city.
    All the properties that redevelopment loaned money
    to are listed there. Then go to Redwood Community
    Actions Agency’s web page. Then to Acct.,
    search for their tax return that is usually posted
    there. Take a little look at the properties listed.
    If I recall correctly they spent $500,000 for lobbying
    Washington, $250,000 for travel and a few years ago
    they bragged about starting a profit-sharing, I think
    the year I looked at was about $289,000. Like that
    oxymoron non-profit has profit sharing plan. They
    make money off of their low cost housing. When you
    get through with that assignment check out Danco
    that builds all the low cost housing in this area.
    One of their employees until recently sat on the
    County Planning Commission and Eureka’s Redevelopment
    Commission. Then read redevelopment conflict of interest law and general conflict of interest law.
    When you are done with that then go to redevelopment law in general and read where Eureka could have counted low cost housing outside of the redevelopment zone 2 for 1 in low cost housing district across from Winco. The low cost housing scam is just that and it is costing the taxpayer millions. Eureka has the amount of low cost housing required by redevelopment law, which is 20% of the increased revenue through property tax. They could have opted out of those loans and didn’t because they could get grant money easier. We have on tape Kevin Hamlin indicating this.In most cities redevelopment is corrupt. This city is no different. When you are done with that, go to the city and ask them who has exclusive right to bid on
    property and for how long they have had it and when the bidder has to open escrow. When you get all done
    I will tell you a dirty little secret about the zoo.

    I am not against welfare. But, it is as fraudulent
    as the big corporations. They are herding welfare
    recipients. Putting a clinic here for heroin users
    would just make the high risk non-productive herd
    bigger. Most the dirty little secrets I know are
    from a well informed now deceased reporter.

  175. May 14, 2011 at 9:47 am

    Down the Road,

    Assuming for a moment that the corruption you refer to in the Redevelopment Agency is real who do you think in responsible? Kevin Hamblin? David Tyson? The whole Redevelopment department? The Republican dominated city councils of the last two decades? Who?

    It wasn’t the county government that planted all those halfway houses on the westside, it was the city.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  176. owltotem
    May 14, 2011 at 10:05 am

    “One study done by a business owner
    in Old Town, came up with the statistics that in
    Eureka we have enough drug & alcohol facilities for
    a population of 250,000. What the miracle is that
    when the SSI runs out they are all cured. Praise
    the Lord. Hell yes, the cop is right”

    what was that Cindy Lauper song, “so dont be afraid to let it show…”

  177. retired guy
    May 14, 2011 at 10:37 am

    HiFi– You state I don’t have a clue on how to deal with the poor and destitute. In my response above, I merely asked if the conservative complainers, (like you), had any answers to the problem, other than shooting them. So what are your solutions? Some of these people need a lot of help, others not so much. Instead of being on your high horse and saying negative things regarding the current situation, come up with some realistic solutions or programs to solve the problem. If you have no viable plans, there is no reason for you to bitch, right?

  178. May 14, 2011 at 11:00 am

    Start using redevelopment money to actually build some low income housing in Eureka, instead of using it to prop up a few real estate speculations. That is if any money is left when the state gets done cutting.

    Using it to build = more affordable housing + more jobs for carpenters, electricians, plumbers and architects.

    Keep affordable housing units small, no more than five or six units. Keep them in neighborhoods already zoned for apartments. If they are in a historic zone, make them designed and built in appropriate materials historical context of Victorian era, preserve the neighborhood values.

    Win for city, win for westside, win for workers.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  179. Anonymous
    May 14, 2011 at 11:41 am

    Quit feeding them and providing services and they will go somewhere else where they can be taken care of.

  180. Anonymous
    May 14, 2011 at 11:50 am

    You want more affordable housing then ask RCAA to sell of some of those beautiful Victorian houses they own on G Street. By the way they are not paying any property taxes on them I hear.

  181. Anonymous
    May 14, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    DTR if you listen carefully to the tapes of that planning commission meeting you will hear Keven Hamblin being truthful and saying redevelopment was a “Charade” in order to get redevelopment funds and government funding. Even though we had too much low income housing in Eureka.

  182. Mr. Nice
    May 14, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    tra, no county breakdowns for heroin use or homelessness or any of that shit easily found. Samples are too small.

    For heroin and mental health and all that shit nationwide, check
    http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/icpsrweb/SAMHDA/quicktables

    You see all regular hard drug users combined is about 0.3-0.4% of respondents. Believe this data and about a million addicts in the entire US.

    We got all these laws to punish a fraction of people who have developed addiction or was born predisposed to be addicts.

    I’m saying fuck tryna fix these people. Our country erodes our freedoms to pretend to do something about drugs. If all drugs were legal, there would be this many dope fiends. If drugs all had the death penalty, there would be this many dope fiends. Ain’t shit we can do about it. Maybe give them some condoms and a government-run shooting gallery.

  183. May 14, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    With several hundred people living in the bushes and a thousand or so living in roach infested flop houses there is ample evidence of the lack of affordable housing in Eureka.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  184. High Finance
    May 14, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Retired Guy, I have posted the answer many times. Read the post at 11.41am for the answer.

    I have no problem helping somebody temporarily who just needs a hand. Those that are incapable of fending for themselves need to be hospitilized like they did before the 60’s.

    They rest can go away.

  185. Anonymous
    May 14, 2011 at 7:37 pm

    They keep coming here Bill because of the lenient attitude and the services. They keep arriving and no one says we are full-up. So you can use that tired old argument about the need for more housing all you want but it BS. You are creating a never ending cycle of needy people arriving wanting free this and free that. You seem intelligent enough to figure this one out on your own.

  186. Plain Jane
    May 14, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Is it possible that the number of needy people is increasing because our economic policies are failing? The growing number of needy are the cost of outsourcing jobs and cutting taxes for more profit and concentration of wealth while starving social programs, education and job training. How should we support the increasing multitude of people who can’t find a job, have lost their unemployment benefits, their insurance, and finally their homes? Where aren’t there large numbers of needy and an increasing number of homeless? Where should they go?

  187. Anonymous
    May 14, 2011 at 8:43 pm

    Why should they ALL come to Eureka?

  188. Plain Jane
    May 14, 2011 at 8:46 pm

    Have you read any news reports that other towns have noticed a decline in their needy population, 8:43?

  189. May 14, 2011 at 9:01 pm

    When people come to Humboldt don’t you think it likely that they will end up in the county’s biggest city, the county seat, the economic center of the county? Some questions are easy to answer, 843.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  190. May 14, 2011 at 9:08 pm

    737, you are intelligent enough to understand that no one will travel hundreds of miles to eat at Free Meal or sleep stacked like cordwood in a 100 year old building. People are here because they get stuck here. Facilities and programs for the poor and homeless are much better in other cities.

    No offense to St. Vinnies they do the best they can and they help a lot of people, but its not like dining at the Ritz or the Sea Grill.

    The idea that people travel to eat at a soup kitchen is ludicrous.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  191. retired guy
    May 15, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Sorry HiFi, but I couldn’t find your 11:41 post. Just reply by stating your solutions to the problem being discussed here, please.

  192. Mr. Nice
    May 15, 2011 at 11:29 am

    Alright, in defense of capitalism…

    Socialists say we got to have the government take care of the poor. Poor being not just homeless folks but shelter poor or folks who spend all their money on that basement room in the Victorian on C St. Sounds good and shit. Problem with social programs is the state pisses away all that money they supposed to be doing they magic bullshit with. Costs money to collect taxes, account for taxes, distribute taxes, pay welfare staff, pay welfare staff boss pension… by the time you add up all that shit, we got 15 cent of help for poor folks tax dollar.

    Some of the shit poor folks try and do in Humboldt cities is alright. Take over city hall parking lot and take over some abandoned houses. For serious, fuck city hall’s parking lot and all them unused buildings. Too bad that shit’s done to have the city spend money on a shelter. That ain’t gone work, ain’t no city can do that right.

    Many folks in the bottom incomes don’t stay there. In America, us folks born into low income neighborhoods are hungry as hell to get more income. Success don’t happen overnight and welfare helps folks not succeed longer. For poor people who think welfare is a job, they ain’t getting more skills, raises, promoted to welfare recipient management or any of that happy shit.

    A bigger problem is the fucked up way our country set up the banks to lend money to folks who couldn’t pay it back. You know what I’m saying, policy that led to the mortgage crisis bullshit. This took folks who could have slowly been on the come up and buried them in debt. Artificial debt too as ain’t no serious bank about to lend a hundred gs to someone who makes $300 a week.

    To solve all this poor people shit, the government just needs to step the fuck off. If we keep voting for asshole politicians who promise magic bullshit and skim off the top, the homeless and shelter class poor will continue to grow.

  193. Plain Jane
    May 15, 2011 at 11:42 am

    Haven’t you noticed the problems got worse because the government lightened their step, Mr? They cut regulations and taxes and the problems got worse, not better. The rich got richer and the poor became more numerous and got even poorer. Dog-eat-dog capitalism only works well for the biggest dogs, the rest of us have to pack up in self defense or be eaten. Whose side are you on?

  194. May 15, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Mr. Nice,

    You are usually quite rational and humorous but you fall into the trap that a lot of defenders of capitalism do. You have accepted as faith the idea that government interference is causing people to be poor. You are a true believer on this even though you appear to be rational on most things. There is simply no evidence that poor people are better off when social programs are discontinued. As a matter of fact there is counter evidence that suicide rates go up significantly under conservate business friendly governments. The idea that the “free market” will cure all our ills and lead to the shining city on the hill is a religiious utopian ture believers idea.

    Now that I have explained that to you, I am sure you will reconsider. Remember Adam Smith admitted that capitalsim would actually create an impoverished class and stated that there was a duty of a capitalist system to do something to help them.

    Sure there are utopian socialists too, but I’m not one of them. I think a little socialism will help people but I don’t think it will eliminate poverty.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  195. Plain Jane
    May 15, 2011 at 12:02 pm

    The majority of people, the non-rich, have been losing ground in the face of unprecedented wealth concentration in the past 3 decades, an economic assault by the rich which we allowed because too many believed the economic fantasies spun by the right. The assault of one group by another isn’t warfare until the assaulted group starts fighting back. Finally the class warfare is beginning and it’s about fking time.

  196. May 15, 2011 at 12:07 pm

    The Eureka Enterprise Zone is administered by Redevelopment Agency. The Zone includes the Samoa Peninsula of course.

    “Our review of the most up-to-date data on the Enterprise Zone Program finds its cost has soared, but our communities haven’t seen the jobs and economic growth they were promised,” said Jean Ross, executive director of the California Budget Project.

    The analysis shows that the cost of enterprise-zone tax credits grew to $465.5 million in 2008, the latest year for which data are available, from $675,000 in 1986. The average cost per zone increased to $11.1 million in 2008, from $48,000 in 1986.

    In addition, 70% of tax breaks related to enterprise zones are claimed by corporations with assets of $1 billion or more. Many of those corporate tax credits in 2008 were claimed by companies in the San Francisco zone, costing the state $25.5 million.

    The report also says enterprise zones don’t necessarily motivate companies to create new jobs. Because the credits are for new hires, not new jobs, companies can continually hire new employees into high-turnover positions and get credits although no new jobs are created.

    The data echo a 2009 report by Jed Kolko of the Public Policy Institute of California, which found that enterprise zones have no overall effect on job growth. The nonpartisan Legislative Analyst’s Office has agreed, recommending in 2010 that enterprise zones be eliminated.

    http://articles.latimes.com/2011/feb/08/business/la-fi-enterprise-zones-20110208

  197. retired guy
    May 15, 2011 at 12:29 pm

    You definitely have what appears to be a valid point Jane. I visited a sister and her right wing Republican husband in the LA area a couple of weeks ago and got into an argument re: the subject of this blog. I simply asked him what he saw as the future of the “middle class”. His belief is that the middle class is history, that it will be only the rich and the poor. I further asked him what his solution to the poor problem was and he didn’t have an answer, except to jokingly say, “to shoot them”. If that attitude isn’t an expression of class warfare, nothing is.

  198. May 15, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    There you go “Hi Fi” chop these two Republican corporate welfare programs (Enterprise Zones and Redevelopment scams) and you save $8 to $9 billion a year.

    It is hilarious to hear the Chamber of Commerce types wail about the horrible business climate in California when corporations are being subsidized by billions in taxpayer money.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  199. Mr. Nice
    May 15, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    You are usually quite rational and humorous but you fall into the trap that a lot of defenders of capitalism do.

    Not tryna be a defender, just preaching what we practice.

    You have accepted as faith the idea that government interference is causing people to be poor.

    No, there will always be poor people. Government interference makes it difficult for poor people to change into rich people, vice-versa, and in the middle. I’m fine with lazy rich people not innovating and ending up poor due to market pressures. No need to subsidize played out ideas like our government does.

    There is simply no evidence that poor people are better off when social programs are discontinued.

    Guess you mean Reagan’s failed policy. When the government takes away social programs while not doing shit about the barriers for poor folks bettering their situation in the labor market, the best alternative is crime. Barriers like minimum wage, business licenses, taxes, paperwork, building codes, and other big business and union-lobbied bullshit that is in place to fuck over small business and the underemployed.

    Take the motel rent shit you keep talking about. $1000 / month housing due to too many taxed landlords getting out of the business stacked up with TOT and artificially expensive entrance into entrepreneurial gigs. That ain’t the fault of capitalism, that is government interference. If landlords could afford to provide small rents and little people were allowed to have legal businesses like cornrows on the steps or sew your clothes for $5 without paying out the ass in licensing, inspections, and taxes, there would be less of this problem you talk about.

    Folks can’t go through all this bullshit to get a home occupation permit and pay minimum wage while they are still struggling to eat. Most lower income businesses I seen start off being illegal. Anything being illegal blurs the line to where folks’d rather do the illegal and lucrative. Government interference helps this along with more shit like a brick of tar heroin being worth more than a car.

    As a matter of fact there is counter evidence that suicide rates go up significantly under conservate business friendly governments.

    This shit? http://jech.bmj.com/content/56/10/723.short
    Seems like bullshit. The averages are too close. There are about 100 per million and it goes down to 90 something, big fucking deal.

    What about this? http://www.bmj.com/content/336/7643/539.abstract

    Latter study says declining unemployment rate and catalytics converters may reduce suicide. Minimum wage and welfare ain’t making this happen. Laws about catalytic converters, yea, that helps.

    Remember Adam Smith admitted that capitalsim would actually create an impoverished class and stated that there was a duty of a capitalist system to do something to help them.

    Capitalist system does have an obligation. Multinational corporations, the police state, and big government only have an obligation to protect their own interests. Collusion among these entities is in their own interest no matter what lies they tell the public about their intentions. As long as we trust government to no collude with lobbyists and fix shit for the people, they will fuck us.

    Sure there are utopian socialists too, but I’m not one of them. I think a little socialism will help people but I don’t think it will eliminate poverty.

    Poverty ain’t about to be eliminated. It’s about making poverty into riding the bus and going to a boring job at a parking garage, playing nintendo gameboy at. Making poverty not as fucked up, that’s all society can hope for.

  200. Reinventing The Wheel
    May 15, 2011 at 1:49 pm

    Intel took their bailout billions and opened a computer component factory 5 football fields-long in Vietnam where half the population is under 18 years old.

    Indigenous Peruvians living in remote villages know more about the world from their AM radios than average U.S. citizens.

    PJ 8:07: As you know, American’s righteous anger would be more focused if not for the widespread censorship in U.S. popular media, specifically, how this economy is manufacturing poverty. This is the primary source of American’s ignorance and bigotry.

    The poorer people become, the more they blame another poor person for the paltry benefits being received…as millions more jobs are exported!

    Mission accomplished!

    “It must be the methadone clinics, food banks and public showers that’s to blame!”

  201. Mr. Nice
    May 15, 2011 at 4:13 pm

    And you people want to attract MORE of them with legalized drugs, Methadone clinics, free needles, pot “clinics”, free food, free showers, free clothes and free housing ??????

    Hifi you use the word them like it’s us versus them. What kinna person looking for charity is secretly looking for a battle? Also ain’t heard of any charities looking for beef.

    * legalized drugs – If heroin was legal, addicts would pay at most a dollar per dose. This might set them back $10 a day. Any bullshit job can pay for a $10 a day habit. Way it is, addicts pay $150 a day. I figure the same motherfuckers who shoot dope now would do it when it’s legal. By your line of reasoning, price keeps people off of heroin. Like the only fucking thing keeping some soccer mom from chasing the dragon is lack of $20.

    * Methadone clinics – With you on that, fuck methadone. Heroin clinics. Methadone clinics are a waste of money, real heroin addicts want heroin. Still this alternative of jack shit clinics ain’t working out so well.

    * free needles – agreed, charge $1 or something.

    * pot “clinics” – the problem term is collective and/or cooperative if you mean weed stores.

    * free food – the fuck you gonna stop the soup kitchen from giving away soup or what? I’m with you on the government not doing this but all the charities no matter what their agenda like food not bombs should be able to give away food without hassle. Ain’t no point in hassling people who are accepting donations and then giving shit away.

    * free showers – At least four or five places do free showers and a few do paid ones and folks know where those are. So what? Keeping poor folks smelling like ass should not be a high-priority issue.

    * free clothes – free clothes ain’t no issue with, again no reason to fuck with people taking donations and giving shit away.

    * free housing – agreed Section 8 is some fucked up shit with the waiting lists and tryna get hooked up that week to sign up and all that shit. Section 8 folks do at least have social mobility. Public housing on the other hand traps folks in the ghetto. At least with slums and tenements and all that shit, folks could build up and improve the neighborhood if they wanted to. You know, hopefully before Hurricane Katrina or some shit fucks all that up. With public housing tho, all we got is crack spots and no mobility. Shit ain’t Singapore, just because it works there don’t mean it works in American cities.

  202. Mrs. Nice
    May 16, 2011 at 1:12 pm

    In reality, we would have to look more like Singapore before any “U.S. corporation” voluntarily repatriates jobs to the U.S..

    There was a time in America’s conservative past when unemployment, poverty, and its associated drug abuse, crime and disease were so universally despised that predatory businesses and usurious interest rates were strictly regulated and outright banned….there were government work projects, training and placement programs, affordable SRO housing, and free universities. We had reasonable Tariffs to protect high paying jobs and 90% tax rates that provided a modern infrastructure and the trained workforce required for industrial growth.

    We fell victim to a cabal of radicals masquerading as conservatives.

    Instead of investing billions in research and development to modernize and keep U.S. industries competitive, they put those billions in their pockets, widened their revolving door to Congress, and authored the legislation to export outdated mfg. to foreign teens without paying a dime in taxes for the U.S. protection of 800 foreign military bases, a stable currency, and a justice system enforcing their contracts…with full access to trillions in bailouts!

    Where’s the outrage??

    There’s no outrage because they’ve made history disappear by deregulating and centralizing media ownership to trumpet their ubiquitous mantra: “there’s plenty for the deserving”. It’s an unrelenting propaganda that has successfully convinced a nation’s citizens that divestment from America’s human resources is in their own interest!

  203. Mitch
    May 16, 2011 at 1:29 pm

    No, there will always be poor people. Government
    interference makes it difficult for poor people to change into rich people…

    I personally know of kids who were able to escape shitty families and become successful thanks to government programs. The solution is not eliminating government programs for poor people — especially for kids.

    There should be a wealth of government sponsored and funded learning-related activities that ANYONE can participate in, so that they aren’t stigmatized as “for the poor.” Food at schools is a good example — a sane society would make sure that any kid that wants quality food at school for breakfast before classes, for lunch, or for a snack after class can get it without any means test. School libraries and gyms should be available on evenings and weekends.

    But I’m in agreement with Mr. Nice that money given to the government these days is far more likely to end up passed along to the wealthy than to the poor. It shouldn’t be hard to understand: lobbyists and legislators work for the people who pay them, just like the rest of us. These days, the people who pay them are ultra-wealthy, and campaign contributions are correctly viewed as business investments.

  204. High Finance
    May 17, 2011 at 10:02 am

    “money given to the government these days is far more likely to end up passed along to the wealthy than to the poor”.

    The saddest thing today is how many people believe in that tripe. You haven’t the foggiest idea of how the system works if you believe that.

    The overwhelming percentage of government spending is in the Social Security, Medicare and other entitlement programs. They dwarf the amount spent on the military & interest on the debt but the social welfare spending will continue to dramatically increase.

    How can you seriously claim that the wealthy get the money ??????? Where the hell do you think the money comes from in the first place ??

  205. Anonymous
    May 17, 2011 at 10:07 am

    sounds like HiFi helps the wealthy avoid taxes

  206. Plain Jane
    May 17, 2011 at 10:07 am

    You can’t count Social Security or the portion of Medicare that is paid by workers, HiFi, since those aren’t regular tax receipts and the vast majority is paid by working class people expecting a return on their “investments.”

  207. Anonymous
    May 17, 2011 at 10:26 am

    All the handouts and dole are just creating an underclass of of people that will never be able to be self sufficient. Look at the Food Bank here in Eureka encouraging people to get on food stamps. In the past many families may not have had an easy time making it but they did without the governments help. You want to be a beggar? Fine then be one. Have no pride. This kind of so called HELP only creates more need.

  208. May 17, 2011 at 10:32 am

    The Food Bank doesn’t have anything to do with food stamps. You are misinformed, 1026. Food stamps are a federal program.

    The food bank distributes surplus food to people who need it. It is good for people who have housing and a refrigerator but are low on food for whatever reason but the Food Bank is of little value for the truly homeless, and the near homeless, those who are living in fleabag motel rooms because these people lack any cooking facilities and cold storage.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  209. tra
    May 17, 2011 at 10:56 am

    Where the hell do you think the money comes from in the first place ??

    Wealth is created from the resources of the earth, through the ingenuity and hard work of lots of people.

    Some people become wealthy because of their ingenuity and hard work, some because they were born wealthy, and others because they have learned to skim off some of the wealth created by others, without contributing much (if anything) to the overall creation of wealth.

    There are people who fit that latter description who are at the top of the income scale, as well as some in the middle and toward the bottom of the income scale.

  210. Anonymous
    May 17, 2011 at 11:26 am

    Food stamps may be a federal program but I am talking about those that encourage it and the food bank does.

  211. Plain Jane
    May 17, 2011 at 11:32 am

    Shame on the food bank for informing people that they may be eligible for food stamps! Now about all those big box corporations who have personnel just to help their low paid employees sign up for food stamps, Medicaid and housing subsidies which enable the owners to pocket more profit because the support of their employees is born mostly by the taxpayers……

  212. Mr. Nice
    May 17, 2011 at 7:41 pm

    But I’m in agreement with Mr. Nice that money forcefully stolen from poor people by the Federal Reserve system these days is far more likely to end up pissed away on debt to the Chinese investors that float our fiat currency than to the poor. It shouldn’t be hard to understand: lobbyists and legislators support debt creation for the benefit of Chinese investors who pay them bribes, just like the rest of us bribe takers.

    Right on bro, nailed it.

  213. Anne
    June 27, 2016 at 10:00 pm

    All you people bashing methadone clinics obviously have never had to go to one. Or have never had addiction issues. They randomly drug test you, benzodiaphines are BANNED, you have to go to college, get a job and get your LIFE TOGETHER with MANY other RULES AND REGULATIONS TO FOLLOW!!! You can’t just be a bum. The whole point of the mmethadone clinics is to get you to be a productive member of society.

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