Home > Balloon Track, Marina Center, Rob Arkley, Schmidbauer Lumber > Whole lotta logs on the Balloon Track — again

Whole lotta logs on the Balloon Track — again

Schmidbauer Lumber appears to be using the Balloon Track property as a log deck despite the presence of dioxin there.  Witnesses say piles were stacked within a few hours Tuesday.

The logs do not appear to be overflow from Schmidbauer property, however; there is room on the company’s neighboring property.

The former rail yard remains a polluted eyesore despite promises by property owner Rob Arkley to clean it and build his “Marina Center Now!” as promised in last year’s campaign slogan. Instead, he appears content to push toxins around the property with logs and trucks.

EARLIER: Movin’ the mud around | The polluted properties of Union Pacific

  1. So
    August 9, 2011 at 10:42 pm

    I don’t recall that area of the property being contaminated. At least not to the extent requiring concern.

  2. Pitchfork
    August 9, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    Last time lots of mud from the truck tires washed into the bay.

  3. 69er
    August 9, 2011 at 11:07 pm

    Looks like a lot of speculation and shit stirring as usual. where are the facts???

  4. Eric Kirk
    August 9, 2011 at 11:21 pm

    Actually, I’ve been relieved to see more logging trucks on the roads lately. Haven’t seen this many in years. People need jobs and the community needs money.

    These logs are probably being shipped off the continent. Not an ideal local economic model, but better than nothing.

  5. 69er
    August 9, 2011 at 11:46 pm

    I agree with that fully Eric.

  6. Anonymous
    August 9, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    Yeah! Just great. Ship our resources overseas for a few lousy jobs. Short sighted idiots.

  7. Osprey
    August 9, 2011 at 11:53 pm

    Let’s go baykeeper!!!

  8. Not an Expert
    August 9, 2011 at 11:58 pm

    Funny that they have not done anything to clean up the contamination yet they need to stack logs there. Interesting…

  9. 69er
    August 10, 2011 at 12:32 am

    Anonymous says:

    August 9, 2011 at 11:51 pm

    I suppose you are employed and don’t care whether anyone else is or not??

  10. Matt
    August 10, 2011 at 1:14 am

    It’d be nice if the logs were being milled here. Otherwise, we’re just another resource extraction location like a 3rd world country.

  11. Curious
    August 10, 2011 at 7:15 am

    Why hasn’t SN appeared in front of the Coastal Commission to work thru the approval process? Is there more Arkley lawsuits pending? Baykeeper has settled, correct?

    What’s next? Maybe Marian Brady can fill us in?

  12. August 10, 2011 at 7:21 am

    Hey! I thought that parcel was zoned Retail.

  13. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 7:35 am

    Humboldtturtle raises a VERY relevant fact. How can they use retail zoned land for industrial purposes?

  14. Jane Fish
    August 10, 2011 at 7:43 am

    More definition of the issue please? If that is where I think it is–it has been used as a log deck for several years. It gets depleted, or moved for a while, but then is built up again.

  15. High Finance
    August 10, 2011 at 8:02 am

    “a few lousy jobs”

    What a rotten attitude but it tells us a lot about your mindset 11.51 pm.

  16. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 8:03 am

    But the zone was changed at the request of the property owners, Jane Fish. It was zoned industrial but is now zoned retail. Can Sears stockpile logs in their parking lot?

  17. August 10, 2011 at 8:13 am

    Sears can’t but Wal-Mart would be allowed to…

  18. Bolithio
    August 10, 2011 at 8:21 am

    The ballon track is contaminated with Arkley – the dioxin thing is minor compared to that. No one would be talking about stacked logs if it wasn’t the BT+Arkley.

  19. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 8:24 am

    So zoning is meaningless, Bolithio? If you weren’t employed by the logging industry, you wouldn’t be criticizing people who think zoning, especially that which was requested by the owners and tore this community apart, is irrelevant.

  20. August 10, 2011 at 8:30 am

    I supposed the next thing everyone will be wanting to do is shut down Schmidbauer. And people wonder how or why Republicans get voted into a majority.

  21. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 8:41 am

    Don’t be such an extremist, Joe Blow. If Schmidbauer requires that land to store logs, what will happen to them if Arkley develops it?

  22. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 8:58 am

    P.J.,

    I think I remember hearing that the zoning change wouldn’t officially occur until the Coastal Commission gave its O.K. Am I remembering that correctly?

  23. August 10, 2011 at 9:03 am

    Oh, the ECC recently approved the use of a debarker to ship raw logs overseas. It is suppose to create 30 jobs. Whoopdeedoo! It is too bad we can’t have those mill jobs HERE in Humboldt County.

  24. Bolithio
    August 10, 2011 at 9:13 am

    Really Jane? Its a field. Their stacking logs on it. I dont think its a big deal in this case. People appear to be looking for anything to carry on about when it comes to Arkley. Im sure the bad blood runs deep, but the zoning appears like a whiny quibble on the BT right now.

  25. Bolithio
    August 10, 2011 at 9:15 am

    It is too bad we can’t have those mill jobs HERE in Humboldt County.

    Ya it is. But why do I sense a snippy tone in all the export critics? Is shutting our industry down for 5 years until the domestic market returns your solution? WTF is wrong with 30 jobs?

  26. August 10, 2011 at 9:17 am

    I saw little blocks of Western Red Cedar, to freshen the scent in dresser drawers, sold at Ross Stores. “MADE IN THE USA” in red, white & blue letters. In the back, fine printed: Manufactured in China. So we shipped something that Redwoods United could have made over to China and bought it back. Nice model.

  27. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 9:37 am

    I’m not sure, Tra.

    If there is no need for Schmidbauer to stockpile logs on the Balloon Track, what is the purpose for them doing so? If they actually do require that land or close, what happens if the zone is changed (if it hasn’t already) and the land developed? I hope someone keeps a close eye on it so they don’t shift more dirt (and dioxins) around as they move their logs.

  28. Anonymous
    August 10, 2011 at 9:45 am

    I read that Chinese companies are milling the redwoods to use for foundation framing boards, so we won’t be importing back any products. Kind of ironic that while HRC is trying to rebuild the CA Redwood brand, the end use for these exported logs is about as low as it gets.

  29. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 9:52 am

    I don’t think it’s a matter of Schmidbauer having that log deck there or else having to go out of business. It’s just a convenient place for them to stockpile the extra logs closeby. It that spot is no longer available in the future they will just keep a smaller stockpile on their own land, or stockpile the overflow some on some other nearby (but slightly less convenient) parcel.

  30. Bolithio
    August 10, 2011 at 9:58 am

    I read that Chinese companies are milling the redwoods…

    I would re-read your source. All of the logs being loaded up on boats have been Douglas-fir or other white wood conifers.

  31. Ben
    August 10, 2011 at 10:11 am

    I find it interesting that people are talking jobs in Humboldt, yet when any company wants to do something (Cypress Grove) they get signficant resistance. I think some people are talking out of both sides of their mouths.

  32. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 10:19 am

    It was the neighbors who opposed Cypress Grove, Ben, and it wasn’t significant resistance, certainly not resistance from the left. In fact, our leftist supervisor, Mark Lovelace, is still working to help them find a home for their goats.

  33. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 10:49 am

    Ben,

    P.J.’s right. It was mostly just a small noisy group of neighbors (not even all the neighbors) of that parcel who put up a stink about the Cypress Grove proposal. Classic NIMBYism. Same as the neighbors in Eureka who oppose the Lost Coast Brewery’s proposal for a new facility.

    I’ll grant you that it does sometimes seem like there is a “no-nothing” crowd around here that is opposed to just about anything new. But in reality it’s mostly just a collection of different local not-in-my-backyard crowds, with (sometimes) a little bit of overlap between them.

    But in most cases there just isn’t that much overlap at all — for example, those opposing Arkley’s Big Box by the Bay aren’t necessarily the same people opposing Foster-Gill’s SmartSprawl in the woods. Those opposing new multi-family housing on their particular block aren’t necessarily opposed to having some elsewhere, etc.

  34. Decline To State
    August 10, 2011 at 11:14 am

    I’ve no problem with the log decks on the balloon tract when the ground is dry. The trucks and front end loaders just stirs up a little dust maybe. The problem is when the logs are needed and removed next winter they will stir the tainted mud up and it washes into the bay.

    Schmidbauer uses the land because it’s handy and Arkley rents it to them dirt cheap (I know, I worked in the log yard there). There is also land on the bay side of Railroad Ave that’s used for the same purpose. Same dirt, same runoff problem. Schmidbauer’s other option is to use Sierra Pacific’s chip yard for their overflow but that’s a much more costly option (SPI’s greed knows no bounds) but it is paved and the runoff can be controlled.

  35. August 10, 2011 at 11:23 am

    …but it is paved and the runoff can be controlled..

    Kind of like the “capping” they were planning on with the Marina Center?

  36. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 11:51 am

    Furthermore, the non-neighbors who oppose Forster-Gill are primarily competitive developers and their sycophants who are constantly whining about the NO TO EVERYTHING faction in Humboldt County.

  37. The Big Picture
    August 10, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Those who peddle a “no-growth” legend are beyond hilarious. Four local cities have had building moratoriums imposed and the entire county may be next!

    We’ve been saying “yes” to EVERYTHING!

    NOW the infrastructure bills are due. Haphazard growth has made rural Eureka’s street among the least safe in the state. 80% of your $70 water bill is for updating a waste water system deferred for decades. In a few more years, that Summer bill will be $100.

    Eureka voters effectively said “no” to Walmart.

    Please list the other industries local voters were allowed to say “no” to in the last 100 years.

  38. Anon
    August 10, 2011 at 12:25 pm

    It’s not enough that citizens have little say in planning their community, they, and their candidates, must be silenced with great efficiency.

  39. The Big Picture
    August 10, 2011 at 12:30 pm

    Correction: 80% of the recent increases in our water bill, that rise each year for a 5-year period, were for waste water updates.

  40. High Finance
    August 10, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    You could prove those of us who believe the “legend” wrong Big Picture.

    Just once, support some growth in Eureka other than pot clinics.

  41. Not A Native
    August 10, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    I don’t get it Hi Fi. If good jobs are really your primary goal, why aren’t you supportative and pleased about newly created good paying jobs at retail pot clinics?

    On a per dollar retail price basis, legally produced pot requires far less capital and has much less environmental impact than lumber, dairy, cattle, fish, gold, farms, or gravel. And the high paying jobs created by pot clinics don’t require education beyond High School, matching well with the qualifications of the HumCo workforce.

  42. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 3:02 pm

    …don’t require education beyond High School, matching well with the qualifications of the HumCo workforce.

    It’s true that Humboldt County is below the state average for percentage of college graduates:

    Bachelor’s degree or higher, pct of persons age 25+, 2005-2009

    Humboldt: 26.9% California: 29.7%

    http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/06/06023.html

    On the other hand, we rank ahead of all of our other Northern CA neighbors:

    Del Nortre (15%), Siskyou (22%), Shasta (19.4%), Lake (16.1%), and Mendecino (23%).

  43. anonymous
    August 10, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    Remember the Eureka City Council voted to go with Willits Solid Waste. If other cities and the county hadn’t decided to stay the Arcata Recycling 15 Eurekans (out of the 35 employees) would have lost living wage jobs – with benefits. The ECC are hypocrits. Another instance – ECC is against a bike lane on Harris between I and Harrison because, they say, a bike lane doesn’t guarantee safety! It sure as hell improves safety though, doesn’t it. Give ’em credit; they know how to phrase issues so they sound good and the majority of Eurekans swallow the crap. Ugh!

  44. Bolithio
    August 10, 2011 at 3:53 pm

    [Pot] has much less environmental impact than lumber, dairy, cattle, fish, gold, farms, or gravel.

    Now there’s a unsubstantiated statement!

  45. Thorstein Veblen
    August 10, 2011 at 4:09 pm

    Raised my eyebrows as well.

  46. Not A Native
  47. High Finance
    August 10, 2011 at 4:43 pm

    Its easy to understand NAN 2.01pm.

    The damage that legalized pot will do to our society will cost our society many, many times more than any of the few jobs it provides.

    The “environmental impact” will be the damage increased drug use will have among our people.

  48. August 10, 2011 at 5:31 pm

    So logs that Scmidbauer will turn into a “value added” product for Humboldt County creating 100 jobs at the mill site is bad because of storing for a little while on Arkley property. Shipping whole logs without any “value added” capacity while shipped to China providing a handful of jobs is good? Heraldo! Say it ain’t so!

  49. Plain Jane
    August 10, 2011 at 5:44 pm

    Huh, Samoasoftball? Where the logs are stored doesn’t make the logs good or bad and I didn’t see anyone but Bolithio even defend shipping whole logs to China. No one said that was good, certainly didn’t say Schmidbauer was bad.

  50. Dan
    August 10, 2011 at 5:50 pm

    tra says:
    August 10, 2011 at 10:49 am
    Ben,

    P.J.’s right. It was mostly just a small noisy group of neighbors (not even all the neighbors) of that parcel who put up a stink about the Cypress Grove proposal. Classic NIMBYism. Same as the neighbors in Eureka who oppose the Lost Coast Brewery’s proposal for a new facility.
    Tra, the RSPCA requires at minimum a quarter acre per goat.
    Is this nimbyism or is it stewardship? Do you know how many acres the Cypress Grove project had for 140 goats?

    “Goats are not “little cattle.” Stocking rates for goats must not be calculated based upon plant materials that are available for consumption on a given acre of land. Instead, goat stocking rates must be based upon controlling internal parasites and avoiding over-crowding. “

  51. Walt
    August 10, 2011 at 6:15 pm

    These are little bitty logs. They aren’t redwood. . .I wonder how much they paid for them.

  52. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    By the way, since some folks brought up the Cypress Grove issue, the news today is that C.G. is in the process of building a property in Dow’s Prairie for their goat dairy.

    http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2011/aug/10/cypress-grows/

  53. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 6:56 pm

    tra simplistically substitutes simple census data for analysis and understanding and calls it reasonable. Well, it isn’t. tra is a poster child for a big ego someone who has only a hammer so he’s certain the whole world must be a nail.

    So…what is it exactly that you’re disagreeing with?

    By the way, I don’t really disagree with the gist of that T-S quote, nor does it contradict the statistics I cited above, or my very brief comments on them.

    And many of the same factors named in that T-S quote are also true of some of our neighboring counties, but we’re still doing a bit better than they are in terms of the percentage of college graduates. I suspect the presence of HSU here has something to do with that.

  54. tra
    August 10, 2011 at 7:01 pm

    Oops…

    In my 6:44 comment, that should read “…in the process of buying a property in Dow’s Prairie…”

  55. Bolithio
    August 10, 2011 at 7:25 pm

    These are little bitty logs. They aren’t redwood. . .I wonder how much they paid for them

    If they were bought for the domestic market they cost about 420ish per thousand bd ft. (assuming they are DF)

  56. jasper
    August 10, 2011 at 8:31 pm

    Who says these are Schmidbauer logs? Maybe someone can learn this important fact. Given the location, the log deck probably has something to do with the recent approval for a debarking/whole log export design. Fits well with Arklyville mentality.

  57. janefish
    August 10, 2011 at 8:44 pm

    Lordy! Plain Jane thank you for the background.

    Really isn’t it just all about having a plan for growth and checks and balances in place? If a plan is in place and processes and regulations followed, by everyone, then we are all in this as a community together. Hence that way major resource holders cannot purchase government or corrupt government or leverage government to eliminate or change regulations for their own private agenda. Kind of like the “anti-national” American model right now. Flexibility is one thing, pure greed and proconsumption-at-any-cost-down-the-road is another.

  58. The Big Picture
    August 11, 2011 at 12:28 am

    I asked Heraldo’s antagonists to:

    “Please list the industries (other than Walmart) that local voters were allowed to vote “no” on in the last 100 years”.

    There aren’t any!

    Eureka, and its developer-dominated leadership, has said “yes” to everything until we’re threatened with building moratoriums, a decayed infrastructure, waste water fines from the RWQCB, big box saturation, tenements built next to grand Victorians, a 25% home affordability rate, record traffic injuries and fatalities, nuclear waste on EQ faults next to an elementary school, toxic pulp mills next to the county’s largest population center, and serious attempts to further endanger the public with LNG facilities.

    Clearly, the “yes to everything” legacy that wrapped the entire bay with brownfeilds is alive and well. We even reinstated a police chief who was recently quoted on the front-page calling Eureka a “hell hole”! (Garr probably would have been fired for such stupidity).

    No, forget all the ancient and current history…you either support another big box, another mall, more unaffordable housing…or you’re an “anti-growth” conspirator!

    We’re witnessing the right-wing’s absurd fantasies and fallacies intensify as this unsustainable economic model continues to collapse around the nation.

  59. Bolithio
    August 11, 2011 at 6:05 am

    …toxic pulp mills next to the county’s largest population center,

    We just closed the cleanest pulp mill on the planet. That means for all the product that would have been made here, it will be made elsewhere, with a much higher cost in energy and impact.

    Fallacy is certainly intensifying. It is infectious for everyone apparently.

  60. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Which “we” are you talking about, Bolithio? I thought the owners of the pulp mill closed it. Did that include you? The way you put it sounds like “we” forced them to close.

  61. Anonymous
    August 11, 2011 at 6:58 am

    PJ,
    it is well known humboldt county, and ca, are not friendly to business. i don’t suppose a the numerous air quality fines, the raid from the da’s office, or dealing with the coastal commission helped seal their fate, do you?

  62. scooter
    August 11, 2011 at 7:33 am

    Why cant the assholes who trashed the property be forced to clean it up? How can they just dump it on a developer and bail out on the city and county? No one is talkin about the real criminals here.

  63. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 7:54 am

    Right, 6:58. We don’t need no stinkin laws or regulations! Do you bitch when drug dealers and meth labs are busted too? California is more people friendly than polluter friendly. Shame on us!

  64. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 7:57 am

    Scooter, Arkley bought the property knowing it was polluted and needed clean up. It was hardly “dumped on a developer,” FFS! I too think the railroad should have been forced to clean it up years ago, but no one forced Arkley to buy it and give them plausible deniability of any responsibility to clean it up.

  65. Not A Native
    August 11, 2011 at 8:08 am

    Well if that pulp mill was so ‘clean’, as Bolithio is so sure of, then why was it cited and fined so frequently for polluting? Fact is, it wasn’t compliant with Federal and State standards and that had nothing to do with Humboldt county’s attitude toward business.

    But from the perspective of Bolithio, Humboldt is a special place where regulatory laws shouldn’t be enforced as long as landowners agree its OK. And pollution here should be acceptable as long as a locally owned business is doing it.

  66. JB
    August 11, 2011 at 9:23 am

    PJ, I have heard you argue against allowing Arkley, the developer, being allowed to develop the property as he sees fit by putting a big box store in. So in your opinion, he cannot develop the property into what he wants and he must also meet a clean-up standard that is unprecedented on our bay. In all seriousness, can you appreciate how a business man, in this economy, would be upset and fight these conditions?
    I appreciate the fact that CA is people friendly. However, unless we can move away from being a consumer society, we need profitable businesses running, supplying jobs, and encouraging commerce. I believe you are over-simplifying our local problems by pointing to Arkley as a bad guy. He’s a businessman. In the world in which we live, they have to make profits or they become ex-businessmen.

  67. tra
    August 11, 2011 at 9:31 am

    With regard to the proposal to re-open the pulp mill, that failed because the owner couldn’t find enough financing to get it up and running.

  68. ridgerunner
    August 11, 2011 at 9:35 am

    Two of the most entertaining statements in this thread:

    “California is more people friendly than polluter friendly.”

    Pffffttt. Don’t get out much, do you? Ever been to that magical kingdom called the Central Valley? I luvs me the smell of some cotton defoliant, saline water, and feedlots.

    “Legally produced pot requires far less capital and has much less environmental impact than lumber, dairy, cattle, fish, gold, farms, or gravel.”

    A special shout out to NaN for making me snort OJ out of my nose. Always good to start the day with a laugh.

  69. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 9:36 am

    I’m funny like that, JB. I think the people who live in a community should have the right to decide what they want and don’t want in their town and SCOTUS agrees with me. What part of a big box on the waterfront do you consider to be a positive for our community? Low wage jobs that require tax payer subsidies which don’t sell local products sounds like a drain to me.

    Making excuses for Arkley’s lies doesn’t make him trustworthy. If he can’t make a profit while following he law, he shouldn’t be in business. Everyone should have to follow the same laws and regulations to level the playing field. Giving advantages to big money for big boxes is corrupt. Did you forget their promise when they wanted to buy it? “There will be no big box on the Balloon Track.”

  70. skippy56
    August 11, 2011 at 12:05 pm

    I keep hearing folks wantig a living wage and always thought it would start at $10 per hour for an individual. Then I looked at a report by http://www.livingwage.geog.psu.edu/counties/06023

    For Humboldt the livig wage is $8.27, and we are complaining? LOL

    You should look at the page

  71. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 12:14 pm

    That’s for one person and assuming they work full time, Skippy, which is rarely the case for minimum wage jobs.

  72. skippy56
    August 11, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    Yes, PJ. Did you look at the page to read other points that are considered?

  73. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 12:23 pm

    Yes I did, Skippy. Did you have something specific you want considered?

  74. skippy56
    August 11, 2011 at 12:31 pm

    No, just wanted to [point it out. This is what we are fightig when looking for higher wages in our area.

  75. Anonymous
    August 11, 2011 at 1:23 pm

    One of the distinctions between capitalist and communist tyranny is the freedom to travel and have children.

    With 43 million Americans living in poverty, and many more barely above it….the distinctions begin to blur.

  76. High Finance
    August 11, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Obviously you haven’t the slightest idea of what living under a communist tyranny is/was like 1.23pm or you wouldn’t have made such an idiotic statement.

  77. High Finance
    August 11, 2011 at 1:47 pm

    That was an interesting chart there Skippy. But it is called a “living wage” and not called a “Living in Style Wage” for a reason.

    I can agree with those numbers. Like PJ said, it was for a single person working full time.

  78. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 1:51 pm

    Walmart considers anything over 28 hours a week as full time.

  79. Anonymous
    August 11, 2011 at 2:51 pm

    Plain Jane said: “I’m funny like that, JB. I think the people who live in a community should have the right to decide what they want and don’t want in their town.”

    Which people have the right to decide? The majority of the people who cast the most votes in the community or the loudest minority who scream at the top of their lungs with litigious and personal roadblocks, hissy-fit name-calling and rants of paranoiac fear based upon a political ideology not followed by the majority.

    Please realize that statement neither suggests an allegiance to the left or the right.

  80. Plain Jane
    August 11, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Everyone has the right to express their opinions on any topic, 2:51. It’s up to them to convince the people needed, whether it is the voters, their reps or the businesses they want or don’t want. Unfortunately, too often opinions are expressed quietly to the “right people,” behind closed doors and not much more openly by campaign contributions from special interests essentially buying the decision they desire.

  81. Not A Native
    August 11, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    That chart is bogus Skippy. I’d call it a subsistence, mean existence wage, not a living wage. It’s possible to live for a short time with that income. But anyone doing that would be at great risk of becoming homeless and needing public assistance when the slightest mishap occurs in their life. And mishaps happen to everyone, they’re not accidents, they’re a certainty.

    The chart assumes 40 hours of work for 52 weeks a year and has no budget for any savings and no time off. That just isn’t reasonable for what someone in a low wage job can realistically be expected to endure and sustain indefintely. So maybe it assumes paid vacation time, which is totally unrealistic for a $7 an hour job.

    For one person, it shows housing costs of $636, no budget for utilities. That’s possible in HumCo only for a shared space arrangement that will certainly be unstable, resulting in regular moving expenses and need for savings to cover security deposits. It would be life like a Chinese factory worker assembling IPhones for Foxcomm(until they commit suicide). Course, they work 75 hours a week for their ‘living wage’.

    And with $98 for medical, it must assume health insurance is provided, but no time off work for illness will ever happen. The ‘other’ category of $151 for one person has to cover clothing, personal grooming, recreation, and losses due to breakage and theft(both highly likely when someone is living in such a vulnerable situation). No way could anyone sustainably live housed on that budget while working full time without a subsidy. HSU projects students should budget $17,200 for annual living expenses and that assumes dormitory housing.

  82. High Finance
    August 12, 2011 at 7:28 am

    There are apartments available that are $636 or less NAN. They are not nice as your house but they are liveable.

    Most people without health insurance spend less than $98 per month on medical. Again, this is a living wage and not a living in style wage. If people want a living in style wage they know they need to stay in school, work hard and save your pennies.

  83. Not A Native
    August 12, 2011 at 9:38 am

    The point you want to avoid Hi Fi is its not a sustainable wage, no one can live on it for very long. You make a mockery of ‘living’ because you know the pnly thing this wage permits is hard work, it has no accomodation for schooling or saving. Its simply a slow spiral that depletes human capital depending on someone being healthy, never ill, and never having capital expenses.

    And when illness comes and things break, are lost or stolen, as they always do, the person will become homeless and dependent on public assistance. A real living wage allows for all reasonably expected costs of life. Thats not living in style, thats living and being secure.

  84. Plain Jane
    August 12, 2011 at 9:55 am

    People with $98 in their budget for health care end up on Medi-Cal when they have an illness or injury, but their co-pay would be much higher than $98 unless they were disabled by said medical issue and had only state disability as income. So obviously it isn’t a living wage but a fantasy survival wage if everything goes perfectly and it rarely does. If they are full-time at Walmart, which considers 28 hours a week as full-time, they will be on public assistance for medical, housing and food, subsidizing the share owners’ profits from the pockets of people who wouldn’t shop there on a double dog dare.

  85. Fact Checker
    August 12, 2011 at 11:15 am

    High Finance says:
    August 12, 2011 at 7:28 am

    “Most people without health insurance spend less than $98 per month on medical.” Figures lie and liars figure.

    According to the US Census Bureau, in 2007, 45.7 million people in the U.S. (15.3% of the population) were without health insurance for at least part of the year. This number was down slightly from the previous year, with nearly 3 million more people receiving government coverage and a slightly lower percentage covered under private plans than the year previous.[50] Other studies have placed the number of uninsured in the years 2007–2008 as high as 86.7 million, about 29% of the US population.[78][79]

    Among the uninsured population, the Census Bureau says, nearly 37 million were employment-age adults (ages 18 to 64), and more than 27 million worked at least part time. About 38% of the uninsured live in households with incomes of $50,000 or more.[50] According to the Census Bureau, nearly 36 million of the uninsured are legal U.S citizens. Another 9.7 million are non-citizens, but the Census Bureau does not distinguish in its estimate between legal non-citizens and illegal immigrants.[50] Nearly one fifth of the uninsured population is able to afford insurance, almost one quarter is eligible for public coverage, and the remaining 56% need financial assistance (8.9% of all Americans).[80] Extending coverage to all who are eligible remains a fiscal challenge.[81]

    A 2003 study in Health Affairs estimated that uninsured people in the U.S. received approximately $35 billion in uncompensated care in 2001.[82] The study noted that this amount per capita was half what the average insured person received. The study found that various levels of government finance most uncompensated care, spending about $30.6 billion on payments and programs to serve the uninsured and covering as much as 80–85% of uncompensated care costs through grants and other direct payments, tax appropriations, and Medicare and Medicaid payment add-ons. Most of this money comes from the federal government, followed by state and local tax appropriations for hospitals. Another study by the same authors in the same year estimated the additional annual cost of covering the uninsured (in 2001 dollars) at $34 billion (for public coverage) and $69 billion (for private coverage). These estimates represent an increase in total health care spending of 3–6% and would raise health care’s share of GDP by less than one percentage point, the study concluded.[83] Another study published in the same journal in 2004 estimated that the value of health forgone each year because of uninsurance was $65–$130 billion and concluded that this figure constituted “a lower-bound estimate of economic losses resulting from the present level of uninsurance nationally.”[84]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States

  86. Anonymous
    August 12, 2011 at 11:27 am

    “For one person, it shows housing costs of $636, no budget for utilities. That’s possible in HumCo only for a shared space arrangement that will certainly be unstable…”

    You can rent a place in McKinleyville for $550 utilities included.

  87. Anonymous
    August 12, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    High Finance says:
    August 11, 2011 at 9:48 am

    “You make up shit all the time “No Fact Checker”, and you are doing so again now”.

    Thanks Fact Checker, you’ve exposed Hi-Liar once again, HE’S the one generally “making up shit”. Force-feed him the facts and he’s banished in shame.

    Until Hi-Liar’s insatiable hunger for humiliation returns with each new Heraldo post.

  88. Fact Checker
    August 12, 2011 at 12:58 pm

    Anonymous says:
    August 12, 2011 at 12:17 pm

    “Until Hi-Liar’s insatiable hunger for humiliation returns with each new Heraldo post.”

    Okay, I don’t laugh often reading the HH, but that was perfect.

  89. Not A Native
    August 12, 2011 at 2:00 pm

    Anon 11:27, you can rent that place, no one else can, its a shared apt or illegal moldy trailer. And BTW, can’t get to your 40 hour a week job from there without a car which you can’t afford and you’ve no time to walk miles to buses that can get you to your night shift.

  90. Anonymous
    August 12, 2011 at 2:01 pm

    High Finance says:
    August 11, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    “Obviously you haven’t the slightest idea of what living under a communist tyranny is/was like 1.23pm or you wouldn’t have made such an idiotic statement”.

    “Idiotic”?

    Many of the 43 million Americans living in poverty, are victims of skyrocketing bankruptcies and foreclosures due to uninsured illnesses.

    Maybe Hi-Liar can put on the clown nose he wears while blogging and try to cheer-up a family who lost everything as their hardworking breadwinner slowly dies for lack of proper cancer treatments….by telling them the GREAT NEWS that, at least, they weren’t living in communist China!? At least, the banksters will be flush with public treasure, (keeping the world’s children employed).

    Or, he can put on his well-worn U.S. flag costume and march in downtown Watts to provide the GREAT NEWS to child-victims of the evening’s random gunfire that the U.S. is pissing-away their nation’s treasure fighting terrorism around the globe…to keep them safe.

    Every nation suffers it’s own brand of tyranny and those who attempt to excuse it through erroneous comparisons are traitors.

    But then, traitors are often Hi-Liars.

  91. Plain Jane
    August 12, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    “No buses? Let them take taxis.” What M. Antoinette would say if she were alive today. She, of course, lost her head because she wasn’t using it.

  92. The Monitor
    August 12, 2011 at 8:18 pm

    They have been stopped before for churning up the ground with their log movers. Much of the property has not been tested and mixing it all up in a toxic soup makes it almost impossible to find the source of the pollution. Also that area is fill dirt directly over the old slough and in the rainy season the water table comes very close to the surface. Mix it all up and the flow goes into the bay. Great for the oyster industry and people who fish along the banks of the bay, not. This information is available in many places so you doubters need to do a little reading. Spouting off about things you know nothing about makes you look stupid and silly at the very least.

  93. High Finance
    August 13, 2011 at 9:01 am

    I stand by my statement Annonymous 2.01pm. If you think living poor in the US is the same as living under a “communist tyranny” then you remain the biggest idiot posting on the Herald.

    Never been “banished in shame” Annonymous 12.17pm even though you have said that umpteen times. Only someone with your limited thinking skills would think that I have been “humiliated”.

    Again Factless Che3cker weighs in with him misunderstanding of what real facts are. Your long post at 7.28am was to repute my claim that most people without health insurance spend less than $98 per month per person out of their budget. IT DID NOT. It did not even address that fact and instead gave all kinds of other information. Just how fracking dumb are you ?

  94. High Finance
    August 13, 2011 at 9:03 am

    That is “Anonymous” and not “Annonymous”.

  95. Bolithio
    August 13, 2011 at 9:56 am

    Plain Jane says:
    August 11, 2011 at 6:20 am

    Which “we” are you talking about, Bolithio?

    The we I am talking about is “us”, the humans who live here. As I have said before, in my view, we are all connected – and responsible for what is occurring around us. We invented agriculture, music, and the atom bomb. Pollution is a debt we all share.

    Not A Native says:
    August 11, 2011 at 8:08 am

    But from the perspective of Bolithio, Humboldt is a special place where regulatory laws shouldn’t be enforced as long as landowners agree its OK. And pollution here should be acceptable as long as a locally owned business is doing it.

    Huh?

  96. Random Guy
    August 13, 2011 at 1:04 pm

    ” Pollution is a debt we all share. ”

    Tell your share to stop clearcutting the forest we all don’t get to share.

  97. Anonymous
    August 13, 2011 at 2:27 pm

    “Anon 11:27, you can rent that place, no one else can, its a shared apt or illegal moldy trailer. And BTW, can’t get to your 40 hour a week job from there without a car which you can’t afford and you’ve no time to walk miles to buses that can get you to your night shift.”

    It is clear you have not gone apartment hunting. you can find nice one bedroom units in mckinleyville for 500-600. 700-800 usually can get a nice two bedroom apartment or duplex with a yard and garage.

  98. Anonymous
    August 14, 2011 at 12:38 pm

    “I stand by my statement Annonymous 2.01pm. If you think living poor in the US is the same as living under a “communist tyranny” then you remain the biggest idiot posting on the Herald”.

    If Hi-Liar demands more punishment, it’s very considerate of Heraldites to give the man what he wants!

    This is Hi-Liar’s M.O. Even dogs seem to enjoy punishment when it’s the only attention life offers.

    I never wrote that communist tyranny is the “same” as capitalist tyranny. I made the point that all nations possess unique forms of tyranny, and that anyone seeking to excuse it and downplay the suffering of their citizens, by comparison to someone else, is idiotic, as well as, traitorous.

    Once again, Hi-Liar is compelled to alter others comments in order to share his pain, exposing that he’s really not very bright.

    Children facing evening gun-fire in Watts, or hardworking families facing homelessness due to illness, could give a damn about whether Chinese citizens are any worse off.

    However, American’s are not stupid, just uninformed.

    Eventually, the riots plaguing European, Asian and Middle East nations (due to THEIR governments transferring massive public wealth to elites, while enforcing austerity measures), will begin to resonate with U.S. citizens facing the same tyranny.

  99. Migh Finances
    August 14, 2011 at 1:10 pm

    “It is clear you have not gone apartment hunting. you can find nice one bedroom units in mckinleyville for 500-600. 700-800 usually can get a nice two bedroom apartment or duplex with a yard and garage”.

    Thanks for the clarification friend.

    I pay plenty of taxes to subsidize nursing homes to crowd our aging population into (long before they actually require it) so that my friends and I can keep rents far outside THEIR affordability.

    Industrious youths can work the hours needed to pay me.

    Had my mentor Ronald Reagan not eliminated the Fairness Doctrine, we’d have routine headlines about the grinding poverty in America, the warehousing and abuse of an aging population, one-in-six children going hungry every night, etc. etc. etc.

    Your Big Bad Corporations would stop advertising and you lifties would lose your free-press dummies!

  100. Not A Native
    August 15, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    Repeating lies Hi Fi doesnn’t makes them any less lies

    The real Facts from current CL

    Utilities are additional, like $50/mo. and bedroom community apts not close to jobs and public transit also necessitate a reliable car, not included in ‘the budget’

    $675 / 1br – 1Bedroom/1Bathroom upstairs apartment – water, sewer & garbage paid! – (Eureka)

    $340 mobilehome space – (McKinleyville, Calif.)

    $650 Studio Apt All Utilities included – (Crescent City)

    $875 / 2br – 2 Bedroom, 1 Bath – (McKinleyville)

    $620 / 1br – AVAILABLE NOW – 1 Bedroom/1 Bath Apartments – (McKinleyville)

    $825 / 2br – 769 School Road-Available Now! – (McKinleyville)

  101. TimH
    August 16, 2011 at 11:56 am
  102. Not A Native
    August 16, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    Whats is it about real ads that you don’t like TimH? Oh yeah, they belie the phony ‘living wage’ thats actually a ‘starvation wage”.

    Not having security isn’t living. But according to Hi Fi and TimH types, slaves are being paid a ‘living wage’. Because, after all they’re staying alive, aren’t they?

    The game you self proclaimed ‘conservatives’ play is use any small advantage you have over others and use it as a wedge to increase you advantage and obtain power and control over them. Claiming subsistence pay is a ‘liviing wage’ is a ruse to gain political cover to distract from your predatations on the weak and hapless.

  103. TimH
    August 16, 2011 at 12:54 pm

    Strange that I posted a list of 142 units under $600 from the same source, isn’t it?

    I never claimed anything about living wages or otherwise. I merely pointed out the fact you are manipulating the data to make it look like you can’t find a place to live for under $600/month.

    You do make a valid point about the appropriateness of siting low income housing away from job centers. You should tell that to the board of supervisors next week when they vote to rezone land in McKinleyville.

    The rest of your post is nutty.

  104. Not A Native
    August 16, 2011 at 1:09 pm

    Yeah TimH, you posted ad, alot of which are phony and include space rentals. C’mon and get real and stop phonying up afforadable housing lists. As far as putting affordable housing in McKinleyville, its the best place because that where people already move to for cheap housing. Its a tradition. Butter wouldn’t melt in your mouth TimH, you think you’re clever but just a NIMBY.

    Your CL ads:

    $300 Trailer / RV Space (Willow Ck.)

    $325 RV SPACE NEAR THE LAKE!

    $340 mobilehome space – (McKinleyville, Calif.)

    ……Rental Helper’s List is a total Rip-Off! (a.k.a. “Scam”)

  105. High Finance
    August 16, 2011 at 2:28 pm

    You are so out of touch in your ivory tower NAN that it just isn’t even funny.

  106. TimH
    August 16, 2011 at 3:30 pm

    Still cherry picking I see. Even if 50% of those are legitimate, it makes the point.

    Let’s compare and contrast:

    NAN – “and bedroom community apts not close to jobs and public transit also necessitate a reliable car, not included in ‘the budget’”

    NAN – “As far as putting affordable housing in McKinleyville, its the best place because that where people already move to for cheap housing. ”

    Which is it?

  107. Not A Native
    August 16, 2011 at 3:59 pm

    Almost all of those ads are phony, put in by rentalhelpers and others selling lists.

    Which?? Neither sufficient housing nor public transportation is now available in McKinleyville that enables someone on that budget to ‘live’. My point is that the ‘living wage’ is bogus, insufficient to afford living, even in McKinleyville.

    And yes, McKinleyville should have more opportunity for people earning a real living wage to live there. And more public transportation there would reduce the real living wage a working person needs to live there.

  108. TimH
    August 16, 2011 at 4:40 pm

    NAN – “Whats is it about real ads that you don’t like TimH?”

    NAN – “Almost all of those ads are phony, put in by rentalhelpers and others selling lists.”

    I see a trend here…

  109. Anonymous
    August 17, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    Unless Americans start taking more responsibility to inform ourselves, we can expect more public wealth to be wasted subsidizing the infrastructure for McMansion subdivisions, more public services for poverty-wage big boxes, and countless nursing homes that keep an aging population out of the rental market.

    NAN is correct.

    Our current system accelerates individual’s economic decline, making it more comparable to slavery than what’s propagandized as a living wage. It’s barely a subsistence wage.

    Shelter is a pillar of civilization and $500-$800 rent is not affordable for average workers or social security recipients.

    The result is a city where the largest business growth is in predator industries and their consequences: job-scalpers, rental agencies, storage facilities, pawn shops, check cashing, Rent-To-Own, bail bonds, dollar stores, the plethora of second-hand stores, recovery homes, liquor stores, drug abuse, and the rising demands on social services, welfare, food stamps and housing aid.

    “The U.S. is the only nation that when from barbarism to decadence without civilization”. G.B. Shaw.

    Where’s the outrage?

  110. Migh Finance
    August 17, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    More loser-talk from 1:34.

    Only in America is an average person free to open their own pawn shop or check cashing business to share in a nation’s success.

  111. High Finance
    August 17, 2011 at 2:46 pm

    “$500-800 rent is not affordable for average workers or social security recipients”.

    Nonsense. Define “affordable”. Is affordable 20%, 40% or what ?

  112. August 17, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    First, last, and a healthy “cleaning deposit”. Surely you can come up with that on $8/hr? What a joke! Last time you tried that, HiFi, was back when a dollar was worth a LOT more than it is now…a LONG LONG time ago, no doubt.

    As to the logs (where we started a LONG time ago), I’m pretty sure Security National (CUE IV) was told to remove the original deck. That was winter and mud was being tracked down the street while mixing up the soil on the Track pretty good. Now that it’s drier, the operation is kicking up considerable dust (I’ve watched it) which might contain God knows what pollutants. How would we know? They’ve tried real hard to scramble it up.
    Get on with the court ordered cleanup and quit wasting time sueing the Coastal Commission and everything else that moves.
    Remember “the Marina Center NOW”? Another Arkley lie? At least another Brady lie. Take your choice.

  113. Pitchfork
    August 17, 2011 at 4:06 pm

    Marina Center NOW! Jobs Jobs Jobs. Measure N. The Brady Bunch. All brought to you by Rob’s lil’ stepin’ fetch it Matt Owen. Are you gagging yet Eureka?

  114. Not A Native
    August 17, 2011 at 4:46 pm

    TimH, the ads you say I ‘cherrypicked’ were chosen because they were real, not phony come-ons. You did nothing but a search without lookng at any specific ads. And you cite phony ads as having merit. You show that you’re both lazy and misleading.

  115. Timh
    August 17, 2011 at 6:45 pm

    Would you bet me $500 I can’t find a place for under $600 per month?

  116. funnygirl
    August 17, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    NAN – Put your money where your mouth is or shut up.

  117. Anonymous
    August 18, 2011 at 1:44 pm

    “Nonsense. Define “affordable”. Is affordable 20%, 40% or what”?

    The average SSI check is about $800. Looks like they can afford $800/month!

    A minimum wage employee earns about $1,300 and can afford to rent a small house!

    Right, Einstein?

    Oh, they can’t ALSO afford food, travel, health care, or family…(depravities rapidly blurring the distinctions from slavery or communism).

    It takes unbridled dishonesty to apologize for one of the “richest nations on Earth” causing American families unprecedented suffering by transferring trillions of dollars of public wealth to the wealthy, while divesting from schools, universities, job programs, jobs, infrastructure, and social services and welfare.

    Media’s mantra of “plenty for the deserving”, becomes increasingly ridiculous after 30 years of outsourcing, layoffs, foreclosures and bankruptcies.

  118. Not A Native
    August 18, 2011 at 1:54 pm

    TimH to be affordable under the ‘budget”, the place has to go for less than $500 considering utilities and necessity for a reliable car. I’ll take your bet if you find it and ‘live’ in it for 6 months on the ‘living wage budget’ !!

  119. Timh
    August 18, 2011 at 7:07 pm

    The argument was whether or not a unit is available for under $600. That’s why you cherry picked the craigslist ad, to prove one could not find a place for that amount. You stated upthread the sub 600 units were shared apartments or moldy trailers. Now you are trying to weasel out of your claim by placing ridiculous and unacceptable conditions on a bet you know you would lose. You claim I am citing phony ads and am lazy and misleading for posting a link to a craiglist search for apartments under 600. I clicked on enough of those to bet $500 I could find a place for that amount. But you know that.

  120. Not A Native
    August 18, 2011 at 7:35 pm

    Timh, the argument is over whether that “living wage’ budget based on $8.27 an hour is adequate to susutain life in HumCo. Housing is one element, I said the budget for it was unrealistic, and I stick by that. You find a place where you can live and maintain a job within the living wage budget and you win the bet. If all the necessary costs of decent living aren’t affordable, then the whole budget is bogus. Any kind of ‘place’ you’ll find for $500 will result in much higher costs for utilities, transportation, medical care, and theft insurance than the budget allows. I took your bet, now you’re welshing on it.

  121. Anonymous
    August 19, 2011 at 12:27 pm

    Tim – “I never claimed anything about living wages or otherwise. I merely pointed out the fact you are manipulating the data to make it look like you can’t find a place to live for under $600/month.”

    NAN – “Almost all of those ads are phony, put in by rentalhelpers and others selling lists.”

    Tim – “Would you bet me $500 I can’t find a place for under $600 per month?”

    NAN – “I’ll take your bet if you find it and ‘live’ in it for 6 months on the ‘living wage budget’ !!”

    Tim – “Now you are trying to weasel out of your claim by placing ridiculous and unacceptable conditions on a bet you know you would lose.”

    NAN – “I took your bet, now you’re welshing on it.”

    Like a reasonable condition is moving out of my house for 6 months to win $500. Whatever.

  122. Not A Native
    August 19, 2011 at 12:47 pm

    If it ain’t livable, it ain’t a lving wage. Easy to just say its livable, the proof is you living there. If you can’t do the time, don’t do the crime.

  123. Anonymous
    August 19, 2011 at 1:16 pm

    Are you really this obtuse or are you messing with me?

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