Home > Eureka City Schools > New day for Eureka City Schools

New day for Eureka City Schools

Congratulations to Susan Johnson for her defeat of Eureka School Board president Judy Anderson in Tuesday’s election.

Johnson soundly won the race with a 15% margin.

While voter turnout was predictably low with no big ticket items on the ballot, serial voters may have been unimpressed with Anderson’s refusal to participate in the only debate between the two candidates.

Anderson had filed a position paper titled “Now is not the time for a change of direction.”

Voters clearly disagreed.

  1. Mitch
    November 10, 2011 at 8:58 am

    Voter turnout was something like 22% of registered voters.

    Imagine if Americans Occupied the Voting Booth.

  2. Plain Jane
    November 10, 2011 at 9:19 am

    Because it’s too much trouble to bother even requesting permanent absentee voter status and finding a couple of minutes to fill it in and mail it back. There is one consolation, the people who do vote are much more politically powerful because so many don’t. That’s why the GOP is working so hard to disenfranchise voters and why we have to work even harder to motivate them.

  3. Goldie
    November 10, 2011 at 9:38 am

    Voting has not created in me a feeling of political power. It has actually lead to a feeling of political betrayal. I will not stop voting. It is showing up and speaking up that has encouraged me. It is often uncomfortable for me and I have much to learn in my skills of speaking out but I dare say, Voting is hardly enough. Citizens might want to continue to remind those that are elected why they voted for them and what their concerns are.

  4. jr
    November 10, 2011 at 9:53 am

    “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.”

  5. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 9:55 am

    Wow, some heavy stuff

  6. Mitch
    November 10, 2011 at 10:01 am

    Yes to everything above. But the fact remains, if nonvoters voted, results would be very different.

    It looks like 650,000 people switched from bank accounts to credit unions last month, possibly the switch count will exceed a million once bank transfer day numbers are in. (The banks are already telling us, with the media’s help, that this doesn’t matter to them, which has got to be the funniest thing I’ve heard in a long time. Ask yourself why B of A reversed itself on its debit card fee if it loved losing all those “unprofitable accounts.”)

    A million additional voters angry at the banks would change things substantially.

    Voting is not enough. But if you want to call yourself a believer in democracy, it is necessary. When voting is insufficient, you need to take additional action. But skipping the voting part just lets the lobbyists think you don’t care enough even to bother to vote.

    Think for a moment about why one of our political parties invests so heavily in voter suppression.

  7. Mitch
    November 10, 2011 at 10:02 am

    Congratulations to Susan Johnson. Sorry to divert your thread.

  8. Plain Jane
    November 10, 2011 at 10:02 am

    I’m not talking about subjective feelings, Goldie. When only 20% votes each vote has the power of 5. When one political party is successful in getting a larger percentage to overcome their apathy, they win without regard for real support for their agenda.

  9. November 10, 2011 at 10:14 am

    I’m hoping this will be a signal to the other incumbent Board members of ALL local educational institutions that status quo ain’t workin’. If parents were happy with the direction things have gone, they would not be pulling their kids out of traditional schools in favor of charters and homeschooling. The world has changed and it’s time the schools acknowledged that…curriculum, discipline and scheduling need to be retooled from the ground up so the students come out at the end actually having LEARNED.

  10. tra
    November 10, 2011 at 10:21 am

    “If voting changed anything, they’d make it illegal.”

    The fact that the Republicans are so determined to make it harder to vote (with many Republican-controlled state legislatures changing the rules to require photo IDs to vote, trying to ending same-day registration as in Maine, etc.) is an acknowledgement that they do fear the possibility that more people will exercise their right to vote.

  11. anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 10:22 am

    The teachers union bought the seat by spending $20,000 on their hand picked candidate.

  12. Plain Jane
    November 10, 2011 at 10:24 am

    Anderson was so arrogant she thought she didn’t have to show up for a debate, 10:22. You can’t blame that on the teacher’s union.

  13. Pitchfork
    November 10, 2011 at 11:21 am

    Pompous Anderson lost because there was no measure N type item on this ballot. if the teabaggers voted in the numbers they did last election Anderson would have been able to continue her reign with John “full of it” Fullerton. Congrats teachers union.

  14. November 10, 2011 at 11:28 am

    Who the heck do those teachers think they are “hand picking” a qualified candidate willing to serve on a school board, …and for no pay?

    What gives them the right to be involved in how the schools are run?

    This is an outrage!!!!

    And they spent their own dues on the candidate of their choice?!?! This can’t be right.

    I thought the religious right was suppose to dominate all of the school boards, not nurses or other citizens supported by public school teachers. What the heck do teachers know about education anyway?

  15. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 11:37 am

    My ballot is worth something, I want to produce a photo id to prove it’s me when I vote. I want the elections department to verify my mail in ballot with the signature I have on file. I want the rolls purged of deceased people and convicted felons before each election.

    I want people to be registered in advance of the election day, say 30 days. I can and do meet all of the above with very little difficulty, so can all of you.

  16. Mitch
    November 10, 2011 at 11:57 am

    Anonymous 11:37,

    Yes, your mail-in ballot’s signature is verified.

    As for voter impersonation fraud, according to those who have investigated it, it is a myth. This is from the Brennan Center for Justice at NYU:

    http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/allegations_of_voter_fraud

    The same organization has studied the effect of Photo ID laws, and they suggest that about 12% of potential voters have no Photo ID:

    http://www.brennancenter.org/content/section/category/voter_id

    Any person or organization that repeats the lies about voter impersonation fraud in the interest of disenfranchising voters who might disagree with them should be ashamed — they are committing the same sort of crime against democracy as the phony literacy tests that used to be administered in the south after slavery was abolished.

  17. November 10, 2011 at 12:03 pm

    11:37
    My ballot is worth something, and because I am a feebled racist old goat I’ll toss canards that have no relevance, so that less people instead of more show up to vote.

    “I want the rolls purged of deceased people and convicted felons before each election.”

    Where the hell does this guy live that the rolls show that way?
    Too much Limbaugh is too much hate.

  18. Plain Jane
    November 10, 2011 at 12:12 pm

    Since you have to sign whether you vote absentee or at the polls and only one person is allowed to vote for each name and address, it would be immediately discovered when a 2nd person tried to vote in your name, whether that is you after the fraudster or the fraudster after you. I suspect people who think others can vote in their name probably are among those who don’t really vote.

  19. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    I don’t know Susan Johnson but her qualifications are outstanding! She has 2 kids in the system so she already knows what’s good and what needs to be changed in our school system. She’s a nurse and is an active member of the California Nurses Association. There’s an organization that knows how to get things done! I hope this new endeavor for her turns out well.
    Thank you, Susan Johnson, for running and winning! Here’s hoping this is the beginning of the turn-around for Eureka schools.

  20. Eric Kirk
    November 10, 2011 at 12:41 pm

    So, what does this mean in terms of policy positions? What different direction is going to be taken?

    I guess it’s hard to know when one candidate refuses to show up to discuss policies, but I’m just not seeing any discussion of the policy substance implications in the thread.

  21. tra
    November 10, 2011 at 12:44 pm

    Eric Kirk asks: “What different direction is going to be taken?”

    As I understand it, they’re going to try turning all the desks around 180 degrees and see if that helps.

  22. Migh Finances
    November 10, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Losing a little school board election is an anomaly in this city.

    Here at the Chamber of Commerce, we’ve been thrilled for decades that local, state and national democrats do little to educate and register voters.

    It has kept liberals at bay, forcing their dominant party to appeal to a minority of voters that include my sensibilities, enabling me to claim “Eureka is a conservative city” when most potential voters are AWOL!!

    It’s why you people still have no health care, and the Dali-Bama still fights Bush’s wars and bails out his banks!

    Unless there’s a movement to impose $50 penalties for “failure to vote”, you people will never be able to steal universal health care from the doers.

  23. The Done To
    November 10, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    Congratulations Susan!

  24. tra
    November 10, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    MF, People who only vote to avoid having to pay a $50 penalty will likely vote for whatever party proposes to do away with the fee.

  25. Load Me Another
    November 10, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    What is amazing here is that the Teachers Union was able overcome the fact Susan’s husband is a respected police officer with EPD. Susan’s a great person. But, if you’re going to be consistent here folks shouldn’t there be mudslinging with regard to that fact? Well? Or, do we once again pick and choose as long as it it props up our agenda? Congrats to Susan. (I voted for Susan too)

  26. Dan
    November 10, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    “I suspect people who think others can vote in their name probably are among those who don’t really vote. Plain Jane 2:12

    Yes, absolutely. From voting we know our name
    is used but once, and we sign. No problems there, the problems are in the machines- still.

    and…..Congratulations Susan.

  27. tra
    November 10, 2011 at 3:03 pm

    Plain Jane said: “Since you have to sign whether you vote absentee or at the polls and only one person is allowed to vote for each name and address, it would be immediately discovered when a 2nd person tried to vote in your name, whether that is you after the fraudster or the fraudster after you.”

    Being registered to vote, and then not voting, is where there would be the potential for someone to vote in your place without you knowing it. So all you have to do to avoid that scenario is to vote.

  28. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 3:04 pm

    I vote by mail, it’s easy. I sent my ballot back weeks before the election. I went to the polls on election day and asked if this was my place to vote, they showed me where to sign and gave me a ballot. I said no thanks I already voted, did not sign nor vote again.

    Then I went to another polling location asked to check if this was the place for me to vote and identified myself as my father who was deceased. They showed me where to sign and gave me a ballot. Again I declined as I had already voted by mail.

    The first example is fairly easy double check the second is not.

    Photo ID is a must.

  29. tra
    November 10, 2011 at 3:08 pm

    3:04,

    In both cases you prepared to commit voter fraud, then declined to follow through. From this you conclude that your fraud would have gone undiscovered. Interesting logic there.

  30. Mitch
    November 10, 2011 at 3:11 pm

    Anonymous 3:04 is absolutely lying. No question about it.

    The records at the precinct show when vote by mail ballots have been received. If Anonymous had actually sent in a vote by mail ballot “weeks before the election,” he or she would have been told their vote by mail ballot had been received. They would have been offered a provisional ballot, and it would have been counted only if the vote by mail ballot envelope could not be located.

    There would have been an investigation.

    But it’s easy to make false accusations when you’re Anonymous. Right, Anonymous? What’s your name, by the way? You’re accusing the elections department of incompetence — don’t you think you should use your name?

  31. Mitch
    November 10, 2011 at 3:12 pm

    Sorry, correcting my 3:11: it shows when someone received a vote by mail ballot, not that it was received. The only way to vote under those circumstances would be on a provisional ballot. The point still applies: Anonymous is a liar.

  32. Not A Native
    November 10, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    I know nothing about Susan, but Judy was very against helping the WCIA acquire Jefferson school. Glad she’s been ousted. My impression of her is shes a stalwart Republican, doing her bit to promote conservative policies in Eureka.

  33. Decline To State
    November 10, 2011 at 4:51 pm

    I am one of the 80% who chose not to participate in this election. I am retired and know no children currently in our school system. I know nothing about any of the candidates and lack the desire or time to learn. I left this election in the hands of those who were more informed and cared. Voting in every election, whether it effects me or not, being informed or not, seems to me to undermine the system.

    I spent my Tuesday wondering and worrying about who pooped and peed on the bank.

  34. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 5:03 pm

    The new PLAZA in Rio Dell is the smartest planning thing I have seen around here in decades. Mark my words, it will mean success for that town. Without a central square, a town has a hard time establishing a central business and community area. This is going to work, I think.

  35. November 10, 2011 at 5:37 pm

    Wow, there are so many comments that need to be debunked, but I must chose only one, so I’ll pick the “Voter Fraud” nonsense.
    The whole issue of voter fraud is another “non-issue” put forth by the right. Interestingly enough, it’s the right wingers who actually abuse the system. Florida comes to mind.
    It’s so perfectly Neo-Con; commit voter fraud for as long as they can get away with it. Then when they get caught; they mount a campaign against voter fraud so they can prevent minorities, progressives, and anyone else they don’t like. And darn it! they just don’t like poor people. Especially the people they, the collaborating right wing; helped to make poor.
    Anyway, congratulations to Ms. Johnson. One must be pretty dedicated to take on such duty. Thank you, and good luck.

  36. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 6:04 pm

    Hey, what’s with Kim Starr getting arrested

  37. November 10, 2011 at 6:38 pm

    Whhhoooo’s next!!! :)

  38. anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 7:29 pm

    Judy is not a Republican and she never hindered that group in their purchase of Jefferson school. In fact she did everything in her power to help them. Anybody who says differently is a flat out liar.

  39. Dan
    November 10, 2011 at 9:46 pm

    I would bet that anonymous 3:04 is
    not telling the truth.
    So… we are left to ask why.

    Is dishonesty ever patriotic?

  40. Anonymous
    November 10, 2011 at 10:02 pm

    Oh dear I’ve upset some of you.

    Another note, my brother’s name was on the voter rolls over a year after he passed away. That must have been two election cycles.

    And ane more curious thing, when I was calling homes from the voter rolls to get out the vote for a proposition that I did not support two or three generations of voters lived at the same address, up to nine people. I guess when the children turned 18 they registered at the parents house and their children also. Made it easy to fill out all the mail in ballots at the same time. Curious.

  41. November 11, 2011 at 8:35 am

    10:02pm; you’ve completely discredited yourself. Why go on?

  42. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 9:05 am

    Some people honestly don’t realize that 21 million adult Americans don’t have photo ID’s or the funds required to obtain the documentation to acquire them. Some people honestly fall for the right wing lies about voter fraud without realizing that they are being manipulated into helping deny Americans their legitimate right to vote. On the other hand, some people are duplicitous manipulators who know full well the real reasons for trying to suppress voting by the poor and are eager to help the fascist cause. I would put 10:02 in the latter category as an answer Moviedad’s question at 8:35.

  43. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 9:08 am

    Liberals need to set up organizations to help the poor obtain photo ID’s in states which are trying to prevent them from voting because they are poor. And we need to get ON IT!

  44. Percy
    November 11, 2011 at 10:13 am

    I think Acorn would have done that PJ. Anything the fright wing can do to suppress the vote will be in their favor. It’s not enough to run negative campaigns based on peoples fears and prejudices when you can keep them from voting altogether. We need to target the right wing slime that voted for this voter ID crap. Or run initiatives to reverse these laws like was done with the anti collective bargaining law in Ohio.

  45. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 10:42 am

    The best option would be legislation that requires states with mandatory photo ID to vote provide them free of charge as well as waive fees for documents required to obtain them. Anything less is a de facto poll tax.

    The GOP has figured out that the dozing masses wake up when their own little bubble is popped by a job loss or medical emergency and their fear for their own well being overcomes their bigotry. Some people, of course, are almost brain dead and won’t wake up even when tossed in a hole and buried, all the while blaming gay illegal immigrant public unionized socialist morticians. You can’t fix that level of stupid.

  46. anonymous
    November 11, 2011 at 11:55 am

    Then you believe that everyone who doesn’t vote or believe as you do are brain dead or dozing? What arrogance.

  47. Percy
    November 11, 2011 at 1:42 pm

    Doing and saying anything, lying, and funding the lies when you know they are lies, just to win and putting up roadblocks to people being able to vote is arrogance.

  48. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 2:14 pm

    2 of the 14 defining characteristics of fascism, Percy.

    http://dialogic.blogspot.com/2005/05/laurence-w-britt-14-characteristics-of.html

    It’s surreal to read this again after several years and observe how corporate power has grown continuously, caused a huge financial crisis from which they benefited massively, and is poised (they hope) to take over as a majority party by successfully blaming Obama for it all. If they succeed, I’ll probably abandon all hope and bail asap.

  49. November 11, 2011 at 3:01 pm

    Then you believe that everyone who doesn’t vote or believe as you do are brain dead or dozing?

    That’s what happens when you surround yourself with people that pretty much agree with you. “How can any sane person not agree with me?”.

  50. Ben
    November 11, 2011 at 4:22 pm

    Jane, you just gave me a reason to vote Republician!

  51. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 4:52 pm

    That’s the only good reason I can think of Ben.

  52. Load Me Another
    November 11, 2011 at 4:58 pm

    The greater the welfare rolls, the greater the public’s dependency on gov’t, the greater the perceived need for liberalism. How can we justify the 12 mil $$ bonuses to the execs at Freddie and Fannie Mae? And, they want billions more $$. Our gov’t gives gasoline and lighters to many banks and companies and watches as houses burn down, yet don’t hold the gov’t accountable and then we want More gov’t. Amazing. We seem more focused on “protecting our guy” no matter what and turn a blind eye to the collateral damage they do. Why is it that so many here feel that human compassion is Only a liberal quality? Did the young Chinses student in T. Square stand in front a tank because he wanted more gov’t?
    And, most importantly today-

    Since Heraldo doesn’t recognize veterans, we should all give thanks for their service…even the ones down there at the courthouse. God bless them all.

  53. November 11, 2011 at 5:15 pm

    Wow, what a touching tribute to veterans from Load-Me-Another.

  54. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 5:49 pm

    He didn’t stand in front of a tank because he wanted corporate control of his government and concentration of wealth in the pockets of the 0.1% either, Load. In fact, I’ve never heard anyone say they were willing to fight and die for oligarchy. Have you?

  55. November 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Load Me Another,

    Just speaking for myself as a libertarian socialist, I don’t want more government. I want a truly progressive system of taxation and a strong social safety net. Neither requires a huge government bureaucracy. I am a small government socialist.

    have a peaceful day,

    Bill

  56. Anonymous
    November 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm

    Nationalism is pride in your country. If your aren’t, you are disloyal. There is a lot to be proud about. Those things that are wrong need to be addressed, but those things that are right need to be appreciated.

    “Human rights” is up for interpretation, interpreted one way by one group and another by the polar group. Private property rights? Yes. Freedom of speech? Of course. Corporate rights? Only the individuals that own the corp. Personal rights? Yes, but if they endanger the boundaries of other people’s rights there is a gray area there.

  57. November 11, 2011 at 6:44 pm

    Anonymous says:
    November 11, 2011 at 6:06 pm
    “Nationalism is pride in your country. If your aren’t, you are disloyal.”

    Anonymous don’t you owe your country honesty?

  58. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    If an employer cut all his workers’ wages to increase his own income and used his wealth to buy legislators to cut his taxes and revoke social safety nets, what would you call one of his employees who claimed it was good for the workers because otherwise they’re jobs would get shipped to Ethiopia? What if he added insult to injury and called his workers parasites because they no longer paid income tax, sucked up entitlements like food stamps and weren’t worthy of a decent retirement if they couldn’t save their own pension? Do you think calling workers who defend this boss are dozing or brain dead is arrogance or blunt truth? That is the working class of the Republican party. It’s not a matter of opinion whether or not the “bosses” are sucking money out of the pockets of workers whether that is by cutting wages (public and private) or shipping jobs to the third world which also pushes down domestic wages, it’s documented, indisputable fact. If you don’t know this you are dozing. If you do and you think it’s not a serious problem, you are brain dead. Sorry if that hurts, but sometimes you have to slap someone to wake them up.

  59. Plain Jane
    November 11, 2011 at 7:24 pm

    their jobs sheesh!

  60. November 11, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Right on PJ

  61. Thorstein Veblen
    November 11, 2011 at 8:36 pm

    Wow, Ms Jane goes off, but is right on.

  62. anonymous
    November 11, 2011 at 10:15 pm

    So much hatred here. You all need to get laid.

  63. Apologist Not
    November 12, 2011 at 12:11 am

    That’s a keeper PJ…with the impact of garlic on Vampires.

  64. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 7:13 am

    Jane,
    What do you call the union who raises the wages so high their employer can’t compete and when they finally go bust, get their paid for government officials to bail out their pension plans?

    The problem is not just your perceived enemy, it is corruption. Who was the biggest Obama donor? where did his finance appointees come from? Who got the bailouts?

  65. Walt
    November 12, 2011 at 7:19 am

    Jane nailed it. It’s the unions that created prosperity by giving the working class disposable income. The CEO class then sent the jobs to China and is now trying to bust the unions because $12 million/year personal income and a stranglehold on government are NOT ENOUGH.

  66. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 7:42 am

    Can’t compete with who, 7:13? Foreign workers without labor laws to protect them, child labor, no social safety net, no building codes and government even more corrupt than ours? Or are you referring to competition with companies that put their workers on welfare programs because they don’t pay enough for them to survive? Why is it, 7:13, that countries with higher taxes, higher percentage of union membership, higher wages and better social programs than ours have weathered this crisis so much better than we have? See Canada, Denmark, Sweden, Germany for examples. You might also find the list which compares income equality around the globe and get a clue there as well:

    http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/eco_inc_equ_un_gin_ind-income-equality-un-gini-index

  67. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Can’t compete with Toyota. Here in America.

  68. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Or southwest airlines

  69. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 9:33 am

    Or charter schools

  70. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 9:36 am

    2/1/2007

    “The UAW is losing its edge in pay compared with non-unionized U.S. assembly plant workers for foreign companies, even as Detroit automakers aim for deeper benefit cuts to trim their losses.

    In at least one case last year, workers for a foreign automaker for the first time averaged more in base pay and bonuses than UAW members working for domestic automakers, according to an economist for the Center for Automotive Research and figures supplied to the Free Press by auto companies.

    In that instance, Toyota Motor Corp. gave workers at its largest U.S. plant bonuses of $6,000 to $8,000, boosting the average pay at the Georgetown, KY, plant to the equivalent of $30 an hour. That compares with a $27 hourly average for UAW workers, most of whom did not receive profit-sharing checks last year. Toyota would not provide a U.S. average, but said its 7,000-worker Georgetown plant is representative of its U.S. operations.”

    http://www.aftermarketnews.com/Item/28594/uaw_losing_pay_edge_foreign_automakers_bonuses_boost_wages_in_us_plants_as_detroit_car_companies_struggle.aspx

    It sounds to me more like it’s the management of American auto makers that isn’t competitive with Toyota. Or do the union workers decide on design and marketing now too?

  71. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 9:40 am

    Carefully crafted words their Jane…base pay and bonuses. Look at the total expense.

  72. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 9:46 am

    And bonuses are just that: bonuses. When times are bad it is not good to be locked in to a contract you cannot afford without the taxpayers kicking in billions, don’t you agree?

  73. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 9:48 am

    GM CEO Rick Wagoner earned 14.4 Million in 2007 and 2.2 Million in 2008.

    6/24/2009
    TOYOTA CITY, Japan — For years, the combined salaries of the president of Toyota Motor and the 38 members of its board have been smaller than the single salary of some top executives at car makers in the United States and elsewhere.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/25/business/global/25toyota.html

  74. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 9:51 am

    When times were bad at GM the workers got laid off and the CEO went on collecting his huge salary which his buddies on the board wouldn’t think of cutting. The bad times at GM were due to leadership failures, not decent wages and benefits for the workers which is what comparing Toyota and GM proves.

  75. High Finance
    November 12, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Oh for God’s sake PJ, are you that far over the edge ?

    GM got in trouble because of leadership failures that is true. Leadership failures in failing to keep costs down in comparison to sales. Costs which are dominated overwhelmingly by wages and benefits paid to its employees.

  76. November 12, 2011 at 10:28 am

    “Nationalism is pride in your country. If your aren’t, you are disloyal.”

    Why do so many people insist upon interjecting their opinion, no matter how ignorant they are.

  77. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 10:30 am

    Sales which are almost entirely dependent on design and marketing. Are those union positions or highly paid executives who think their failures should be paid for by cutting the wages and benefits of the workers who are just following orders? Toyota didn’t sell more cars because their labor costs were lower but because they have cars people want to buy. Toyota blue collars don’t design the cars and they don’t put them together any better than GM. Of course, when Toyota had design failures which cost them millions, the executives took a 10% pay cut from salaries already a fraction of GM salaries. They didn’t cut the pay of the workers to make up for it.

  78. November 12, 2011 at 10:47 am

    HiFi conveniently forgot to mention exorbitant health-care costs, which are unique to the US.

  79. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 11:23 am

    This is a treasure trove of examples of politicians and the corporate media spreading lies about auto union salaries. When they lie it’s because they know they can’t win minds with the truth.

    http://mediamatters.org/research/200812060002

  80. Percy
    November 12, 2011 at 11:58 am

    “Nationalism is pride in your country, if you aren’t you are disloyal.” Disloyal to what? Corporate America? That had to come right from Heinrich Himmler. Or maybe it was King George, a few centuries earlier. Congratulations, on having become the thoughtless airhead that corporate America and Fox News wants you to be. Don’t forget to sign up for the next war.

  81. November 12, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    Obviously, Anonymous does not know that the Allies fought against Nationalists in WWII.

  82. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 12:50 pm

    Which right winger will win the prize by being the first to post the historically inaccurate but common belief among the far right in response to Joel’s post? Honorable mention to liberals who know what it is.

  83. High Finance
    November 12, 2011 at 2:17 pm

    Perhaps Joel has forgotten that both sides had plenty of Nationalistic feelings. Also both sides had Catholics, white guys and people with red hair.

    So ?

    PJ, that $70 per hour is relevant and acutally closer to $73 per hour. It includes wages, benefits and also the retirement costs of present day retirees due to the generous pension programs they have. Could it be the ones “spreading the lies” are the accusers themselves when they omit that detail ?

  84. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 2:41 pm

    And HiFi repeats the lie. You can’t count the retirement being paid to retirees as part of the price per hour being paid to current employees and it’s dishonest to try.

  85. Plain Jane
    November 12, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    HiFi doesn’t have a problem with CEO’s negotiating multi-million dollar salary packages with their buddies on the board for themselves because they’re worth it, but thinks union members shouldn’t be able to negotiate for their $30 an hour and benefits.

  86. November 12, 2011 at 3:07 pm

    HiFi obviously knows very little about the 1930s and ’40s, since he accepts Anonymous’ sadly ignorant definition of “nationalist.”

  87. November 12, 2011 at 3:16 pm

    If “High Finance” actually was a capitalist running a factory and not a lying poser, this is how he would do it:

  88. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 5:07 pm

    Nationalism has more than one definition, and means different things to different people. To me, it has mostly a positive connotation. If used to repress and exclude foreigners, it smacks of bigotry. When a person merely has pride in their country, it is patriotic.

  89. November 12, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    Nationalism has an exclusively pejorative meaning to anyone with any knowledge of modern history.

  90. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 5:38 pm

    Anyone with a closed view and a lack of understand that it means different things to different people.

  91. Anonymous
    November 12, 2011 at 5:45 pm

    I like this article concerning nationalism by Robert Reich for the Boston Globe:

    http://prospect.org/article/good-and-bad-nationalism

  92. Anonymous
    November 13, 2011 at 7:52 am

    Lots of flags flown for debates for both dems and repubs. Are they both showing “nationalism” inappropriately? Think not.

  93. November 13, 2011 at 10:12 am

    “Anyone with a closed view and a lack of understand that it means different things to different people.”

    ?

  94. Anonymous
    November 13, 2011 at 2:18 pm

    “Nationalism has an exclusively pejorative meaning to anyone with any knowledge of modern history.”

    YES. Anyone with a closed view, and a lack of understanding that nationalism means different things to different people.

  95. Anonymous
    November 15, 2011 at 5:58 am

    “And HiFi repeats the lie. You can’t count the retirement being paid to retirees as part of the price per hour being paid to current employees and it’s dishonest to try.”

    PJ, if that is not a payroll related expense, what is it?

    add up your payroll and related expenses and divide them by hours worked. that is the “cost per hour” of your employees. leaving out pension payments, health insurance, and other expenses and benefits gives an inaccurate picture of the costs.

  96. November 15, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Anonymous 2:18 might try to use history or precedent to persuade, but that might require an effort. I’ll stick with my “closed view, and … lack of understanding.” It beats a fatuous acceptance of any definition of a term that comes down the pike.

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