Home > Wal-Mart > Pity Eureka in the wake of WalMart

Pity Eureka in the wake of WalMart

Tom Seabourn offers his own experiences to explain why the WalMart opening in 2012 in Eureka is a net-awful for the community.  The damage will extend beyond competing retail businesses and shitty work environment for employees.

In my opinion, Walmart is the worst possible business that could have moved into a dead mall. It will become the mall and one day the mall will become the tax base to Eureka. When that happens even people in the TV, radio and newspaper business will mostly go out of business because these smaller business that will go away are what keep the local media alive. Walmart only buys one ad and they do it on National TV… radio not local.

More.

 

 

  1. December 17, 2011 at 4:05 am

    Eureka is headed for a depression the likes of which have not been seen here for over 100 years (at the turn of the century). Read your history. Walmart is not the cause, it is a symptom. I have watched prices increase in Eureka for over 30 years because of the inefficient local commerce and increase of the federal spending money brace. Eureka is headed for a two tear economy. Perhaps Plato expressed it best. The populous will ether fit into the new economy or have to move. Excessive federal spending is coming to an end , State spending (HSU) is coming to an end just like the Logging and Fishing industry’s that are dead and dyeing. “Who are we to blow against the wind” .

  2. Walt
    December 17, 2011 at 6:54 am

    “Two tears.” You said a mouthful, though I disagree with your diagnosis of the cause. We’re now competing with temporary economies in China and the far east, where people live on dirt. Redistribution of the wealth through government spending is the only way to keep us from sinking, and now that’s being ended. All those teachers, postal workers and CalTrans workers will be getting jobs at Walmart AND McDonald’s, and their 30-something kids will be moving home. When the 99 percent are sick, homeless, hungry, and disparing (and lose their big screen TVs) things will start to change.

  3. December 17, 2011 at 7:27 am

    “Eureka is headed for a depression the likes of which have not been seen here for over 100 years ” 4:05

    It does not need to be that way.
    If we had leaders such as Gen. Marshall who could rally resources
    to rebuild entire countries, we sure as hell can get our country back to work.

    Engineering studies are done- we are officially trillions $ behind
    in domestic infrastructure.
    Once that work has begun you’ll see a ‘real’ economy develop,
    one that is laden with taxpayers and the numbers will turn.

    Walmart is the indicator we steered the wrong way.

  4. December 17, 2011 at 8:14 am

    Those who capitalized on out-sourcing jobs, and betraying the country, in my opinion; have worked hard to “Starve the Beast.” That is to cripple the infrastructure so they could use their bought-and-paid-for corrupted legislature to privatize the resources that can no longer function without taxes. I’ve been watching it since Reagan. What really hurts is the anti-American traitors who try to cloak their treason in opinions about “economic choices”. Bullshit! You either support the country, or you support corporate billionaires who owe allegiance to no country, state or city. They are a people unto themselves. You might say that they are loyal to Dubai, but that would be based on its purchase price.
    Nationalize the energy resources, Nationalize the minerals. Nationalize the Health Care, Nationalize the Education, and Education-loans, Nationalize the insurance industry, Nationalize Water. Then maybe we have a chance.
    Oh, did I mention public financing of all elections?
    We could have had every citizen a king; instead we have one king for every million Serfs.
    Bring it on Traitors, talk your talking points, betray your families, friends and neighbors; maybe the billionaire will reward you with a position in the mansion.

  5. Mitch
    December 17, 2011 at 8:33 am

    moviedad writes:

    Nationalize the energy resources, Nationalize the minerals. Nationalize the Health Care, Nationalize the Education, and Education-loans, Nationalize the insurance industry, Nationalize Water. Then maybe we have a chance.

    How?

  6. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 8:44 am

    OMG you guys are depressing. Things look pretty good around here.

  7. Pitchfork
    December 17, 2011 at 9:25 am

    This will be Dave Tyson’s legacy. Rob Mcbeth’s posse and the Arkleyites have gotten they’re way. All that’s left to be done is for Cal-trans to bypass Eureka.
    Arkleyville, Pitiful.

  8. Dan
    December 17, 2011 at 9:28 am

    Nationalize the….

    Nationalize those inatitutions that are
    natural monopolies.

  9. 454
    December 17, 2011 at 9:28 am

    6:45
    …temporary economies in China and the Far East? oh please.

  10. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 10:11 am

    Occupy Wallmart. Picket and occupy.

  11. jr
    December 17, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Will they change their name to Mall-wart once they open at Bayshore?

  12. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 10:21 am

    Things look pretty good? Roughly half of America is living in poverty, even if the Census bureau is trying to put friendly spin on its own staggering statistics.

  13. Andrew Bird
    December 17, 2011 at 12:18 pm

    I don’t live in Humboldt anymore so maybe my point of view doesn’t matter. But I do still work for Humboldt in the Legislature and still care deeply about the community.

    I joined the fight to keep a big box off the Balloon Track when I lived in Eureka because I felt it was bad for the city. But I’m not particularly anti big box.

    Nor am I a particular fan of Walmart. But I don’t understand the outrage against this one corporation when Kmart, Winco and Target have corporate models very similar to Walmart and have been doing business in Eureka and Humboldt for years, decades.

    Costco, Sears, Staples, CV (formerly Longs), Grocery Outlet. Who am I forgetting? Mega-chains that killed local businesses years ago. Am I wrong in the opinion that Walmart will cannibalize far more business from these existing chain outlets than from local businesses?

    Finally, I think the 1999 vote was about Eureka deciding it didn’t want a big box on the Balloon Track more than it was about keeping Walmart out of Humboldt.

  14. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 12:28 pm

    I don’t understand the outrage against this one corporation

    Because it’s among the worst of the worst big boxes.

    Let’s look at a couple of the big boxes you suggested are the same at enemy #1.

    Winco is employee-owned, and Winco achieves low prices through low profit margins, not on the backs of the companies that make/grow the goods Winco sells.

    Costco compensates its employees well with living wages.

    These are things to encourage in big boxes. We should not welcome big boxes that are worse than Winco and Costco.

  15. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 12:32 pm

    Interesting link, thank you.

    The Census also horribly under-counted Humboldt County residents.

    The more they looked via satellite, the more unrecorded structures they found. If you thought that Ken Bareilles was the only one selling illegal parcels in Humboldt County, you’re delusional. The Census would send enumerators who were frequently chased-out. The pot farmers were the friendly ones, not wanting any trouble, and understanding Census-confidentiality.

    There’s probably many millions of uncounted rural American’s living on a shoe-string, doing what they’ve always done, harvesting every thing available to consume before selling the rest.

    Like everywhere else, the earliest indication is the collapse of bio-diversity following the depletion of the water wildlife depended upon.

  16. Apologist Not
    December 17, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    Rural America is littered with empty Walmarts, one reason is the corporate-authored tax code that makes an empty building more attractive once profits decline below the huge loss-offset from a closed store. The same shell-and-pea game local building owners have played for years. Milk the loss, then move it elsewhere.

    Problem is, once Walmart under-sells local competition, the independent businesses that took a generation to establish themselves can’t exactly rush back in to start anew after the town’s economy is devastated.

  17. High Finance
    December 17, 2011 at 2:07 pm

    “THE SKY IS FALLING, THE SKY IS FALLING” We are doomed, death & destruction everywhere. Nobody survives !

    Silly hysteria. Listen to yourselves.

    We have had K-Mart, Winco, Costco, Target and the Bayshore mall come in within the last 20 years. Yes, some of the old time, high price, low selection, few hours stores go out of business. Good riddance. But the town adapted and people adjusted. Nobody wants to go back to those days.

    I can’t think of any store around anymore that would be driven out of business. It is far more likely to spell the end of K-Mart which is barely surviving anyway. Costco & Target will lose some business. Pierson’s may lose some but they will adjust as well.

    Somebody, please stop the hysteria and name some businesses that are doomed.

  18. Huxley
    December 17, 2011 at 2:26 pm

    The sad little candy store on the waterfront that sold generic goods you could find anywhere else is closing down. Gosh, why?

  19. jr
    December 17, 2011 at 2:32 pm

    I do not think that the arrival of the big chain stores hastened the closing of the older established local stores. Daly’s closed because the family wanted to do different things, Bistrin’s closed because Harry wanted to work for Barry Keene, Brizard’s closed because the Appleton’s were ready to retire, Arthur Johnson’s for the same reason.
    Local independent stores CAN compete with the big chains if they use the same type of marketing methodology as the chains employ. Plus local independent stores can trump the chains with superior customer service. What is needed is an education campaign by the local indies to counteract the hype of the chains. In many ways the concepts of Main Street organizations and Business Improvement Districts already do this.

  20. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 3:36 pm

    Who owns Carrington Properties?

  21. Eurekite
    December 17, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Humboldt’s biggest problem is that all of the intelligent and capable people who grow up there have to leave. The one’s who stay behind and vote these idiots into office are disproportionately less capable, worldly, and creative people, ie the ones who can’t make it anywhere else.

    Many good people stay, and many people with roots in the area do their part, these folks are the ones who hold the place together. But they are far outnumbered by a bunch of dipshits who allow themselves to be exploited.

  22. jr
    December 17, 2011 at 4:26 pm

    Or as the bumper sticker notes: “We’re all here, because we’re not all there.”

  23. Eric Kirk
    December 17, 2011 at 4:42 pm

    Costco and Target will probably survive, but Kmart is probably toast.

    WalMart may not even make it here, so all predictions are a bit premature.

  24. jr
    December 17, 2011 at 4:49 pm

    Eric:
    K-Mart is owned by Sear’s (or vice versa). I can envision only one store, either at the Mall or the present K-Mart site. (K-Mart has be a part of the business community since at least the 1920s when it was called Kresge, I believe on F Street and also at the Eureka Mall.)

  25. Goldie
    December 17, 2011 at 4:55 pm

    WalMart’s only wish is to Serve Man.

  26. dwayne montane
    December 17, 2011 at 5:02 pm

    Yeah, we all know Wal-Mart’s success is from cheap sweatshop labor and not offering their employees benefits. I will not shop there. Most of what they sell is cheap clothes, toys and electronics, which is similar to Target, WinCo and K-Mart. I don’t really think they will have the same impact to our local businesses as a Home Depot, since their products are primarily sold by other big box stores. I mentioned this in a previous post and was told i needed to study up on the issues. Maybe i’m wrong, but i like to hear some examples of local businesses that would suffer from WalMart. I can’t believe i am asking for the same thing HiFi did!

  27. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    I agree with all that, dwayne. Walmart exists to operate at a loss if that’s the “climate”. That they be enough of a drain on enough other business,is part of their plan, it levees the way for the walmart gang of retailers to get cheap space in their respective market (sporting goods, furniture, electronics right down to coffee castles). It’s what starbucks did, openeing stores a few blocks of eachother in urban areas to completely suck the life out of surrounding coffee shops, then closing the lesser profitable starbucks once the area is sufficiently monopolized. Starbucks teams with big box retailers for shared space to increase their presense and growing monopoly.

  28. Load Me Another
    December 17, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    The welfare state and a culture of entitlement have set the table for us, folks- it just cannot be sustained. When Cailf. goes bankrupt real soon, who will Heraldo blame then? She’ll find herself buying pantyhose at Walmart with the rest of us.

  29. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 5:16 pm

    What I meant to say is I agree with all you said, dwayne, save that you believe they won’t be a drain on our economy and I believe they will. It’s more than the power of the consumer, they have the power of being able to operate at a loss indefinitely longer than any local business. They will slash their sweatshop pay to ten cents an hour and not even flinch as far as their corporate activities are concerned. The heads of walmart lack necessary morals. Under the dictionary definition of corporate greed is a picture of walmart. I don’t and won’t shop there.

  30. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    The sad little candy store on the waterfront that sold generic goods you could find anywhere else is closing down. Gosh, why?

    Those type of candy stores do great in thriving tourist destinations. Old Town Eureka is not a thriving tourist destination. Also, the store was way too small. There is a profile for such stores, usually involving rows or wooden barrels filled with candy, where most of the stuff they sell is *not* available at chain stores.

  31. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 5:32 pm

    JR- You’ve got it wrong. None of those stores you mentioned wanted to close. It was a struggle for them all for years, and painful for the families. Being one of them, I can tell you first hand. Not to blame the specific chains; it was more a sign of the times. Catalog shopping was getting to be popular, people were traveling to the big city to shop, and traditions were changing. The mall became the destination that downtown once was. Even stores who went to the mall were faced with super high rents and they couldn’t get the deals on merchandise the big chains could get. People wanted newer, bigger, cheaper. modern. Very few businesses have survived this sort of thing across the country.

    I repeat, these businesses would be in business today if they could have stayed afloat.

  32. jr
    December 17, 2011 at 6:13 pm

    Thanks for the clarification. I stand corrected. As to not being able to get the same deals on merchandise, this is indeed a problem. Maybe if a group of similar independent stores could place large orders and then divide the merchandise according to the individual stores needs.

  33. Lacey Jaine
    December 17, 2011 at 6:16 pm

    What size panty hose do you wear, Load Me Another? I have a few extra pair that don’t fit me anymore since I started my pole dancing class.

  34. humboldturtle
    December 17, 2011 at 7:22 pm

    6 Wal-Mart Heirs worth more than 30% of US Population

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/money_co/2011/12/six-walmart-heirs-wealthier-than-bottom-30-percent.html

    I don’t want to give them any more money.

  35. Dan
    December 17, 2011 at 7:44 pm

    “When Cailf. goes bankrupt real soon, who will Heraldo blame then? ” TooMuchLoad

    I know I’ll blame our spine free leadership. That blame will cross-over political lines honestly and easily.
    It will include petty CSD Directors, deceitful Supervisors, craven Congresspeople….

  36. High Finance
    December 17, 2011 at 8:07 pm

    Huxley, 2.26pm. The candy store by the bay closed because it was in a bad location and had nothing to do with WalMart.

  37. December 17, 2011 at 8:52 pm

    HiFi, try to remove the plank from your eye and see if you can detect Huxley’s sarcasm at 2:26:

    The sad little candy store on the waterfront that sold generic goods you could find anywhere else is closing down. Gosh, why?

    Hux is not blaming WalMart. HiFi is projecting.

  38. Anonymous
    December 17, 2011 at 8:54 pm

    Tom, your opinion is justs that, your opinion. And as evryone knows, opinions are like …….. noses, everybody has one.

    I would explain why Tom is talking out his but, but why bother.

  39. December 17, 2011 at 8:57 pm

    First hand experience is more than an opinion, but by all means, Anonymous, continue to think with your “but.”

  40. Mitch
    December 17, 2011 at 9:35 pm

    Lacey Jaine,

    Congrats on the lost weight!

    Goldie,

    Your Twilight Zone reference did not go unnoticed. You are being watched by the authorities. Congrats to you, too!

    Huxley,

    You are a poet. Just watch:

    The Sad
    Little
    Candy Store
    on the waterfront that sold
    generic
    goods
    you could find anywhere else
    is closing down.

    Gosh
    why?

    A noble cry from the heart! Congrats to you, too!

    HiFi,

    I know you’re trying to be nice, but you are overusing the word “silly.” Please stop. Please.

  41. High Finance
    December 17, 2011 at 10:29 pm

    Heraldo, your ilk blames war, pestilence, famine and Pres Bush on WalMart.

    Mitch, if I respected the left’s anti WalMart argument more I would call it stupid. As it is, they only deserve silly.

  42. Apologist Not
    December 17, 2011 at 10:34 pm

    I never thought I’d read a post by Andrew Bird questioning the fuss over Walmart since “Costco, Sears, Staples, CV (formerly Longs), Grocery Outlet, already killed local businesses years ago”.

    Half the businesses in Eureka are still independents. They’re the reason the Chamber of Commerce needs public subsidies.

    Sacramento has made Andrew numb…almost ready for elected office…

  43. December 17, 2011 at 10:45 pm

    Heraldo, your ilk blames war, pestilence, famine and Pres Bush on WalMart.

    You’ve proved my point, HiFi.

  44. 69er
    December 17, 2011 at 10:51 pm

    jr, I’m just wondering where you come up with this Kresge name. There was an SH Kress five and dime on F St. and at the Eureka Mall, The F St. one was right across the alley from Woolworth’s five and dime but I have never seen a Kresge here nor do I believe there was one.

  45. 69er
    December 17, 2011 at 10:53 pm

    And to add to that K-Mart bought Sears while in Chapter 11 bankruptcy.

  46. Goldie
    December 17, 2011 at 11:02 pm

    Why Do People Defend Unjust, Inept, and Corrupt Systems?
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/12/111212153157.htm
    “You’d think that when people are stuck with a system, they’d want to change it more,” says Kay. But in fact, the more stuck they are, the more likely are they to explain away its shortcomings. Finally, a related phenomenon: The less control people feel over their own lives, the more they endorse systems and leaders that offer a sense of order.”

    Why do people vote against their own interests, watch Fox, not see that when they hurt their neighbors, their neighborhoods, they hurt themselves? Every foreclosure brings the property values down in the whole area. Any local business that seeks to compete with walmart will have to lower wages and cut benefits putting more strain on our tax base and general well being.
    ** and Thanks Mich

  47. Jack Sherman
    December 17, 2011 at 11:03 pm

    Notice how big box advocates never refute a word of the national and local economic research that show how rural communities, (and a nation), saturated in poverty wages are not sustainable?

    Unlike other big boxes, Walmart has left the biggest, ugliest paper trail that exposed the strategies and practices of the industry, well-documented in numerous books, and videos.

    Big box advocates know damn-well they’re betraying American families in favor of corporate billionaires with whom there was never a “level playing field” in a “free-market”.

    In that sense, we should be grateful for Walmart’s boundless greed, they have forced more American’s to see the children suffering behind the labels, while their own children take jobs subsidized by welfare, medi-cal, and food stamps.

    Moviedad 8:14 nailed it.

  48. jr
    December 17, 2011 at 11:37 pm

    I should have written Kress I I do remember the store. Kresge was the parent company of Kress and is the K in K-Mart

  49. 69er
    December 18, 2011 at 12:33 am

    S H Kress and S S Kresge are two entirely different people and were two entirely different establishments. Kresge did in fact become K-Mart while Kress went into oblivion except that it still survives in Puerto Rico. Check it out!!

  50. Anonymous
    December 18, 2011 at 10:44 am

    Kmart will become Sears locally and the Sears location will most likely become the Wal-Mart grocery store. Looks like Winco will be the big loser here. Safeway (which should have never been allowed to build the monstrosity on Harris) will serve the haves whilst Wal-Mart shoppers will make Winco shoppers look like the 99%.

  51. 69er
    December 18, 2011 at 11:08 am

    One of the most sensible SPECULATIONS I have seen on here so far. I do agree about the Safeway part as it is a for sure done deed.

  52. Anonymous
    December 18, 2011 at 11:48 am

    “Notice how big box advocates never refute a word of the national and local economic research that show how rural communities, (and a nation), saturated in poverty wages are not sustainable?”

    Yep, time and time again. They can’t handle the truth. I also notice it’s primarily wealthy people who vocalize support for big box as well.

  53. 713
    December 18, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    Even if walmart wrecked every retail job in the city, how would that devastate our whole economy?

  54. humboldturtle
    December 18, 2011 at 2:50 pm

    Does Wal-Mar sell soil amendments?

  55. December 18, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    amendments? aisle 7 truth justice and beauty-aids.

  56. Mitch
    December 18, 2011 at 3:20 pm

    No that’s soiled amendments. Turtle was looking for soil amendments.

  57. Another 2 cents
    December 18, 2011 at 3:51 pm

    I was in the south bay recently in need of an emergency present for a hospitalized friend………..I went to a mall (it was an emergency) to find a toy store. Even a stupid Toys ‘backwards R’ Us. Was there a toy store in that mall? No there wasn’t. And no it wasn’t a Walmart, but the concept is exactly the same – no toy store – Target had it all (or all your gonna get now – cheap Chinese crap).
    We want a homogenized society where we can count on getting exactly the same crap as in the town before? Why people?
    Walmart will employ as many people as possible part-time and stress the social services of every kind further, You do all know most Walmart workers still qualify for food stamps and medi-cal, don’t cha?
    And love those service jobs! Hope your grandkids will be able to find even one of those .
    Bleck.

  58. Jack Sherman
    December 18, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    713 says:
    December 18, 2011 at 12:39 pm

    “Even if walmart wrecked every retail job in the city, how would that devastate our whole economy”?

    Economics 101 is not the right-wing’s forte.

    As the nation is drained of our living wage jobs in industry and manufacturing…fewer Americans have the disposable income required to sustain an economy.that is now 70% dependent on consumption.

    Please cite your source showing that rural economies benefit from low-wage employment saturation.

  59. Anonymous
    December 18, 2011 at 4:19 pm

    Larry Glass and the Democrat Central Committee sabotaged the last attempt to pass a living wage initiative in Eureka.

    If you want to keep Walmart out, raise the minimum wage to 10 bucks in Eureka.

    Small business owners like Larry who exploit their teenage workforce will just have to suffer.

  60. December 18, 2011 at 4:34 pm

    4:19 That is weird.
    You are kidding, yes?
    A politico is allowed to vote against a minimum wage ordinance,
    and still be considered a lefty? How?

  61. 713
    December 18, 2011 at 8:25 pm
  62. 713
    December 18, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    You’ll especially like this part:

    He points to Morgantown, the downtown area around West Virginia University, as an example of where some businesses shut down and other new small businesses are now in their place.  “It is important to remember that Wal-Mart doesn’t put anyone out of business—consumers do,” he said. “They choose to shop at new Wal-Mart stores instead of the old mom and pop stores because they save money.  And this is money consumers can now spend on other items, creating opportunities for new small businesses to open.”

  63. Jack Sherman
    December 19, 2011 at 12:45 am

    Imagine that!

    Heraldo’s first post-ever that refers to a study showing that, “Walmart is good for the economy because it leaves more money in shopper’s pockets”.

    Sounds like an excellent ad for Walmart, or the check cashing/pawn shop, Rent-To-Own industries.

    Don’t you want to wait until this “forthcoming” study is published, or do you actually need to read it first?

    Surely there’s dozens of other studies published? A book? A documentary?

    The Walmart within the university town where this study is based isn’t even 10 years old, (in addition to 16 other Walmarts within a few hours drive), hardly the basis for accuracy, considering that our own Ray’s Market is in its tenth year with few customers… biding its time as all predators do…waiting for the competitor-prey to die.

    My concern is in low-wage saturation, something not mentioned in the study’s synopsis, nor the rise in public services required by it. Big boxes quickly deplete the bulk of them.

  64. December 19, 2011 at 5:00 am

    Walmart would be a great store, if Americans had the right to “collective bargaining.” What a great economic engine, raising all boats, paying a living wage, supplying health insurance that worked for every one of its employees. People making good money, spending it at other stores as well as their employer’s stores. And of course if the economic health of the US, was the mandated, primary concern of the capitalists: then the merchandise would mostly be manufactured in this country, and the trickle-down effect would raise all the small manufacturing enterprises. What a utopia! What a fantasy! Of course it could all be a reality but for the lack of one necessary ingredient: put the American people, the working people, the common people, first! I know some house-slave is going to say the above scenario would spell doom to the profits of companies like Walmart. But when you look at where the benefits of their profits end up, they end up in the pockets of the rulers of those companies. So its all bullshit. The overall aim of those rulers is to weaken and disenfranchise the American worker. We are a threat to that select few taking a selfish, unfair, completely insane portion of the wealth generated by this country and the workers in it.
    These favored corporate rulers post huge, unbelievable quarterly profits. They use their unfair advantage to corrupt our courts, our legislatures, and finally middle-class workers themselves, who fall prey to propaganda campaigns specifically designed to engender hatred of their common ally; all to subvert any possibility of the two coming together against their real enemy: those greedy elites who are sucking up our children’s future.
    Sorry bout’ the sermon. But this is an old fight. House-slaves have always been used against the field-slaves by the aristocrats who starve thousands to eat delicacies off gold plates.
    These elite rulers say they love America. Well, of course they do, look what they’ve taken from it. But they hate the Americans. They despise any notion of elevating the common worker with education or good health and employment. They love this country in the same way a bank robber loves the bank. Or the fox loves the hen-house.

  65. Anonymous
    December 19, 2011 at 5:27 am

    “middle-class workers themselves, who fall prey to propaganda campaigns specifically designed to engender hatred of their common ally”. Spot on, MD. Nox Spews and other media have succeeded in brainwashing what’s left of the middle class into thinking liberals are somehow responsible for exporting their jobs. Exporting jobs is the treason of which Walmart is guilty. They’ve done more harm to America than Bradley Manning could even imagine.

  66. December 19, 2011 at 6:54 am

    Walmart would be a great store, if Americans had the right to “collective bargaining.”

    Moviedad, are you saying we no longer have ‘collective bargaining’ rights?

  67. 713
    December 19, 2011 at 7:03 am

    Jack, you didn’t read the study, did you?

    It wasn’t based on that town and it was based on self employment numbers state by state.

    Here is th original,

    http://walmartstores.com/download/3078.pdf

    And here is another article, from September regarding employment.

    http://www.sfexaminer.com/opinion/op-eds/2011/09/employment-myths-used-falsely-keep-wal-mart-doghouse

    you asked for citations?

  68. walt
    December 19, 2011 at 7:23 am

    Interesting citations: one from Walmart.com and the other from examiner op ed piece, which gives you a pop-up ad. . .for Walmart. I’d be interested to see what questions were asked and of whom: “Are you a Walmart hater?” “When did you stop beating your wife?” and so on.

  69. December 19, 2011 at 7:47 am

    “Moviedad, are you saying we no longer have ‘collective bargaining’ rights?”
    You’re kidding…..right?

  70. Plain Jane
    December 19, 2011 at 7:58 am

    Art Carden has written a number of op ed pieces about the benefits of Walmart. “Back of the envelope calculation” and “most likely” are very odd statements from an assistant economics professor. I suspect this one is on the payroll of Walmart.

    Here is a refutation of the study that Jason Furman relied upon to praise Walmart which Carden quotes in his op ed:

    http://www.epi.org/publication/ib223/

  71. December 19, 2011 at 8:02 am

    Anon 4:19,

    I agree with you that a higher minimum wage would deter WalMart from coming to Eureka. It probably would be best to make it a county wide initiative, applicable to businesses with more than 50 -100 employees, and probably $12.00 an hour.

    I disagree with you that “Larry Glass and the Democrat Central” sabotaged the last minimum wage initiative.

    I take responsibility for its failure. I didn’t do a good enough job of raising support for the measure. I couldn’t gather a big enough crew to gather signatures.

    The Dems did fail to endorse it despite my two appearances at the central committee meetings but that did not mean much as only a handful of local pols and organizations supported it. No local union endorsed it despite my efforts at union outreach. That situation might be different today, 3 years later.

    Is it worth trying again? Sure with the stipulations above. A committee of six or seven people can start right now on the internet to organize a Humboldt Minimum Wage drive to keep WalMart out.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  72. High Finance
    December 19, 2011 at 8:32 am

    Why $12 ?

    If there is no negative repercussion to raising the minimum wage, why not raise it to $20 ? $30 ?

  73. Dan
    December 19, 2011 at 8:37 am

    Highboldtage, why blame yourself, sounds as though you did more, than 99% of us. You’ll have more help next time.
    Great day and better days coming.

  74. caffein addicted protestor
    December 19, 2011 at 8:52 am

    “Anonymous says:
    December 17, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    It’s what starbucks did, openeing stores a few blocks of eachother in urban areas to completely suck the life out of surrounding coffee shops, then closing the lesser profitable starbucks once the area is sufficiently monopolized. Starbucks teams with big box retailers for shared space to increase their presense and growing monopoly”

    I’m with you when you bash Walmart and George Bush and the 1% and the oil companies, etc, etc. But bashing Starbucks goes too far!!!!

  75. Dan
    December 19, 2011 at 8:54 am

    HiFi Why not 38 cents an hour? Pull your head out of
    whatever dark place it has been and try to imagine an economy
    that doesn’t neglect so many. That same system feeds itself,
    otherwise that system eats itself.

  76. December 19, 2011 at 8:54 am

    It’s because adjusted for inflation $12.00 buys the same amount of goods and services as the minimum wage did 30 years ago. No one is asking for a $20 an hour minimum wage. $12.00 just restores a little balance to the economic system.

    Just more spin from Hannityland. ha ha ha.finance….

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  77. High Finance
    December 19, 2011 at 8:59 am

    Check your math Bill. You’re wrong again.

    Do facts mean anything to you ?

  78. December 19, 2011 at 9:26 am

    The dollar has lost more than 20% of its value this year alone. People on the right like the Tea Party and people like me on the left understand now how the Fed is printing money to prop up the stock market – for the 1%ers and thier lackeys like you…….

    We know what it has cost us all too. We are living in an era where there is plenty of pain for good solid Republicans too.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  79. High Finance
    December 19, 2011 at 9:34 am

    The minimum wage was last raised to $8 per hour in 2008. Adjusted for inflation that would equal $8.64

    In 1996 it was raised to $4.75. Adjusted for inflation that would equal to $7.17 today.

    The statement that the dollar has lost 20% of its value this year is just absurd.

  80. December 19, 2011 at 9:37 am

    Larry Glass is just an Old Town/Downtown merchant who felt that raising the minimum wage would hurt him more than help him and he was hardly alone in that. I think in retrospect most of these local merchants were unconvinced of the benefits of the raise.

    I made the point that there were likely to be 1,000 or so full time minimum wage workers in the Eureka economy so raising the minimum wage by $2.00 an hour would pump an addtional $80,000 a week into the local economy. After all these are not the people who are jumping in their SUV to travel to the Crescent City shoppers paradise. Of course in balance the payroll expense in Eureka would climb by $80,000. So a local storeowner would have to be convinced that any added payroll expense would be offset by a potential gain in business, and of course that would vary.

    At any rate limiting a minimum wage ordinance to apply towards larger employers (anywhere from 25 to 100 employees this could be debated) negates that objection from the vast majority of local employers. It is the big national corps. that will bear the addtional payroll cost.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  81. December 19, 2011 at 10:05 am

    The CPI is crap. The real inflation rate is much higher. Surely you buy groceries and gas?

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  82. Anonymous
    December 19, 2011 at 10:35 am

    Just saw a Wallmart ad where a woman has a moment of silence to say goodbye to all her previous stores. Seriously.

  83. Anonymous
    December 19, 2011 at 10:38 am

    2011 saw ~$4 gas become standard. Compared to $3 just a year before, that’s more than 25% increase on transportation cost alone. Price of cheese and dairy up a dollar, safely in the 20% range depending on brand, etc. I don’t eat meat, but my carnivore friends see reduced portions at restaurants and higher price in grocery. Produce costs are way up. Rent? Nobody paid less in rent/mortgagae and utilities this year than last.

    Also, to give a much greater portion of the population due recognition, when considering how much higher-income employees are now taking home compared to 5 or 10 years ago (for example, $30k+/year employees taking less, or $10-15/hour employees now working jobs @ $8-9/hour (seasonal layoffs, defunct business, etc) the bottom line regarding value and expendable income is down AT LEAST 20% the last two years alone.

  84. December 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Jan. 1 2007 one share of Bank of America ($53.00 a share) would buy you 23 gallons of gas ($2.30 a gallon.) Today one share of Bank of America ($4.99 a share) will buy you a little over a gallon of gas ($3.89 a gal.).

    Dollar cost average THAT.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  85. 713
    December 19, 2011 at 8:15 pm

    Interesting citations: one from Walmart.com and the other from examiner op ed piece

    Oh, I am sorry they did not meet your approval. I

    Now this is interesting:

    http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/07/25/the-costco-effect-why-does-the-wholesaler-cause-inflation/

    Costco causes a spike in prices and walmart lowers them. which is better for the poor?

    One of these studies showed a net gain of about 50 jobs, so that seems OK in my book.

  86. 713
    December 19, 2011 at 8:28 pm

    Accidentally cut part of my comment. after approval it should read

    . I suppose this guys doesn’t have a clue about economics.:

    http://www.artcarden.com/bio.php

    Certainly less than the the intellectual giants posting here on a regular basis.

  87. Jack Sherman
    December 19, 2011 at 8:33 pm

    713 says:
    December 19, 2011 at 7:03 am

    “Jack, you didn’t read the study, did you”?

    “And here is another article, from September regarding employment”.

    Thanks for your effort 713, but I hate to tell you that an 8-page article is not a “study” and a letter to the editor is not an “article”.

    Two hilarious observations:

    A) The article’s graphs are from 2000, while the number of Walmarts have increased dramatically since then.

    B) The author invokes the theory of “Creative Destruction” where autos replaced the Horse and carriage. Yet, any fool can see the explosion of new part-time, low-wage, temporary jobs at Rent-To-Own stores, storage units, rental agencies, pawn shops, job scalpers, bail-bonds, check cashing, dollar stores, etc, what industries did they replace?

    Merely reporting the number of independent employers a decade ago is good information, but, it’s completely meaningless by itself.

    I hope the Univ. of West Virginia gets numerous big box endowments for the effort.

  88. 713
    December 19, 2011 at 9:33 pm
  89. 713
    December 19, 2011 at 9:39 pm

    “1 Visiting Scholar, New York University’s Wagner Graduate School of Public Service. The author has never received payment from Wal-Mart of any kind. “

  90. Anonymous
    December 20, 2011 at 8:44 am

    Intersting read 713. Especially:
    “Wal-Mart does, however, pay significantly lower wages than those earned by one group of employees: unionized grocery workers in major cities. These unionized workers make an estimated 20-40 percent more than Wal-Mart workers, a fact that is reflected in a similar magnitude mark-up of prices at unionized grocery stores.”

  91. Anonymous
    December 20, 2011 at 8:47 am

    It is clear that Walmart can come. It is even better to know precisely how to defeat them. Unionize.

  92. Mitch
    December 20, 2011 at 9:10 am

    713 asked,

    “Even if walmart wrecked every retail job in the city, how would that devastate our whole economy?”

    It’s not just Walmart, it’s Walmart and “free trade.” Little you buy in a Walmart will be made in America, because American workers have higher wage expectations and workplace demands than impoverished peasants living under dictatorship in China, and because Walmart makes its buying decisions on how much profit they can squeeze out of a product line. The only things you’ll see in a Walmart that are made in America are products that have little value-added from labor.

    In the mid-20th century, American workers were able to obtain a rising level of material comfort and rights because it was expensive to move factories and goods across borders. The screen door hadn’t yet been installed on the American submarine, and it was actually possible to capture some productivity gains for labor rather than capital. Thanks to free trade, capital will now flow to the areas where workers are least protected.

    American workers were spared the immediate effects of free trade by being offered lots of loans. We are still sheltered, to some extent, due to the anachronism of the dollar being the world currency. Despite that, we’ve seen the first winds of the hurricane already. American society has been split apart into the owners, the factory workers (who are into the hurricane) and the technical workers (who are still at the edge, because it has taken a decade longer to move the type of work they perform).

    The trap some on the left have laid for themselves and the rest of us is, as always, based on sincere wishful thinking. No matter what nice-sounding changes are made, until that screen door is replaced by a hatch, or until the ocean is drained, or until the captain is yanked out of his watertight office and faces the same death by drowning as the rest of us, the US worker is in deep trouble.

  93. Anonymous
    December 20, 2011 at 9:15 am

    Exactly, mitch. Walmart IS the damage. They are a multibillion dollar international sweatshop operation. Over 90% (!!!) of their inventory is entirely sweatshop. If their production facilities were in the US, they’d be shut down in a heartbeat for countless health, environment, safety and child labor violations or burned to the ground by angry rioters if not.

  94. December 20, 2011 at 9:16 am

    Some people are really looking forward to those awesome WalMart jobs!

    Hugs! We’ll need them on the race to the bottom.

  95. Dan
    December 20, 2011 at 9:18 am

    To organize grocery department-
    California-
    50% of employees plus 1- bingo.

    In California grocery workers have a pact with
    the Teamsters. Grocery sets a strike-line,
    Teamsters will not cross it.

    If one appreciates contrast I suggest visiting
    a Piggly Wiggly Store in North Carolina (right to work state)
    compare that to a union store in California (right to organize
    state) say Gelson’s or Ralphs you’ll get the picture real fast.

  96. December 20, 2011 at 9:31 am

    Back in 2008 it looks like at least someone in city government thought the people had a right to know:

    https://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2008/08/06/wal-mart-hiring-for-eureka/#comment-47158

  97. Mitch
    December 20, 2011 at 9:36 am

    All you really need do to understand what has happened to America’s economy is to go watch a ship leaving Humboldt Bay with raw logs. It’s less expensive to add the milling labor elsewhere, even if the resulting products have to be shipped back here.

    Both parties can take credit, as can our formerly capitalist system, under which we split off economic decisions from their social effects, so we could all pretend we were improving everyone’s lives by making things more “efficient.”

    I say formerly capitalist, because we’ve long since moved on from capitalist principles to kleptocracy. Reforming the kleptocracy is probably a necessary condition for building a foundation from which we could reform capitalism or leave it behind.

    Reforming the kleptocracy will require public campaign financing, limits on private campaign contributions, and a refusal to allow a revolving door between government officials and regulated industry.

    I have no idea how you get there from here, but if that’s not step one, I think the other steps will collapse or go bad. Christian churches, if they actually represented Jesus, would be preaching this every Sunday from every pulpit.

  98. Thorstein Veblen
    December 20, 2011 at 9:44 am

    Mitch at 9:10 am, right on. I’d only add that, in the name of less ‘regulation’ and cheaper production costs, we have also been transferring environmental degradation to countries more willing to foul their own nests. Or foul our common nest, like the atmosphere or the ocean.

  99. Plain Jane
    December 20, 2011 at 10:14 am

    Walmart’s power over manufacturers from being the largest retailer in the world forces their suppliers offshore which, of course, forces their competitors to buy imports as well. And then there is the issue of their prison labor grown food undercutting farm wages and driving real family farms into bankruptcy.

  100. What Now
    December 20, 2011 at 11:32 am

    “highboldtage says:
    December 19, 2011 at 4:11 pm
    Jan. 1 2007 one share of Bank of America ($53.00 a share) would buy you 23 gallons of gas ($2.30 a gallon.) Today one share of Bank of America ($4.99 a share) will buy you a little over a gallon of gas ($3.89 a gal.).

    Dollar cost average THAT.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill”
    *************************************************************************************
    EXCELLENT post, Bill.
    Your single paragraph should serve as a warning to NEVER again allow 5 fascists on the U.S. Supreme Court to annoint a Yale MBA to run the place.

  101. Jack Sherman
    December 20, 2011 at 1:43 pm

    Mitch, you know damn-well “how we get there from here.”

    We are practicing it @ Heraldo.

    Change doesn’t take place voluntarily without the language of change pervading every walk of life, (think Vietnam), or, it will come forcefully by historic catalysts beyond our control (environmental collapse, for example).

    Taking pot-shots at individual Walmarts, like a unionizing drive, could send them packing, leaving us with a town still saturated in poverty-wage jobs.

    Unfortunately, reading the overwhelming indictments against Walmart’s record of injury to workers and rural economies is limited to blogs and lefty-magazines.

    For example, if the Times-Standard offered a community-interest labor section in its daily, where this debate could be routinely aired, it would preclude gutsy big box advocates from offering their 10-page articles and 300-word editorials as “studies and research” against the watershed of evidence, books and documentaries, proving Walmart, (and low-wage saturation’s), negative impacts.

    713 proudly offered his second article that contradicts his first.

    Both focus on household’s annual dollar savings of $177, then $2,329, (which is it?) without documenting the costs of “welfare makes work pay”. The Welfare to Work program is a complete failure, forcing parents to scramble to several different minimum-wage jobs that reduce benefits when they begin to earn enough to pay for adequate housing,transportation, health care and childcare.

    It’s hilarious how 713’s second article begins:

    “Productivity is the driver of principal (principle) economic progress”

    And what is Walmart “producing”?

    Millions more families across the world who will never afford indoor plumbing.

  102. Mitch
    December 20, 2011 at 1:57 pm

    I wish, Jack, that I shared your confidence that talk matters. When I was in my 20s, I thought people needed “educating.” I no longer have that hope.

  103. yep
    December 20, 2011 at 2:55 pm

    “it will come forcefully by historic catalysts beyond our control (environmental collapse, for example).”

    yep. Consider the magnitude…we live in a fantasy of it, post apocalyptic warzone movies, the reality is much more bleak and torturous. It’s reality, afterall…not some hypothetical point on a business chart that exists primarily in blog discussion.

  104. High Finance
    December 20, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    Sorry Mitch, but I have to say it. Sherman’s argument “We are practicing it @ Heraldo” is just plain silly.

    The left here is so far off the spectrum it is irrelevant. You all are as likely to spark change as the nutcases in the trash strewn encampment at our courthouse.

  105. Mitch
    December 20, 2011 at 3:31 pm

    HiFi,

    You may misunderstand my thinking. I am very doubtful that the status quo can continue much longer. I think Occupy, or something like the Tea Party, will probably come to power in not too many more years. I don’t think the status quo has much chance of continuing.

    It would be lovely if what were to come would be better than what exists now, but I’m less and less hopeful that will be the case. I think our destiny will be fascism from the left or fascism from the right.

    It’s sad. I’d really had hope for Obama.

  106. Boris
    December 20, 2011 at 3:45 pm

    High Finance:
    December 20, 2011 at 3:21 pm

    “The left here is so far off the spectrum it is irrelevant. You all are as likely to spark change as the nutcases in the trash strewn encampment at our courthouse.”

    Mr. High Finance is right. Resistance is futile, you will all be assimilated by the Multi-National Borg. Wal*Mart is your future, get used to it. “The National Defense Authorization Act” was signed by Obama and the constitution is also “irrelevant”. Money is King and Freedom is dead, but we are safer. “Welcome to Walmart, I love you.”

  107. Anonymous
    December 20, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    Bloomberg today rounded up a series of billionaires and wealthy CEOs griping about how unfair the criticism of them has been, likening the Occupy protesters to imbeciles and saying that the protesters’ call for the rich to pay their fair share is vomit-inducing:

    – HOME DEPOT CO-FOUNDER BERNIE MARCUS: “Who gives a crap about some imbecile? Are you kidding me?”

    – HOME DEPOT CO-FOUNDER KEN LANGONE: “I am a fat cat, I’m not ashamed…If you mean by fat cat that I’ve succeeded, yeah, then I’m a fat cat. I stand guilty of being a fat cat.”

    – FORMER BB&T BANK CEO JOHN ALLISON: “Instead of an attack on the 1 percent, let’s call it an attack on the very productive. This attack is destructive.”

    – PAYCHECX INC. FOUNDER TOM GOLISANO: “If I hear a politician use the term ‘paying your fair share’ one more time, I’m going to vomit.“

    But it’s simply undeniable that the richest 1 percent have seen their income explode in the last few decades, and that many of them are not paying their fair share in taxes, taking advantage of loopholes, tax havens, and the preferential tax treatment of investment income to drive their tax rates down below the rate paid by middle-class families. In just the last few decades, taxes on the richest one percent sunk dramatically. At the very top of the income scale, share of income of the 400 richest Americans quadrupled in the last 12 years, while their effective tax rates were halved:

    Charts, etc:

    http://thinkprogress.org/economy/2011/12/20/393090/one-percent-call-occupy-imbeciles/

  108. jr
    December 20, 2011 at 4:11 pm

    One might watch the video entitled “Inspiring words from Charlie Chaplin” post at http://www.occupywallst.org Just scroll down as it is the second video.

  109. jr
    December 20, 2011 at 4:48 pm

    I just came across an article on how one can determine where products are produced. If the first three digits of the bar code are 690, 691, or 692 the product was made in China. If the first three digits are 471 it was made in Taiwan. Many times there is no label showing the country of origin. This is especially true for food products and pet food as the label may just show the distributor’s name and not the country of origin. So look at the bar code for the true indication of where the product was made.

  110. Jack Sherman
    December 20, 2011 at 8:17 pm

    Successful social justice movements are preceded by the language of change and the orators we remember who mastered it.

    In a world of deceit, the truth is revolutionary.

  111. 713
    December 20, 2011 at 10:08 pm

    Jack, you ought to read the whole article. Also, check the credentials of who wrote it. Do you know who he is?

  112. Jack Sherman
    December 21, 2011 at 12:42 am

    Rural Eureka spent $30,000 to hire a respected, independent economic firm (Bay Area Economics) that concluded Eureka was saturated in low-wage retail in 1999!

    All you have offered are two tiny magazine articles and a letter to the editor, none are dealing with low-wage saturation, which has only increased since the decade their statistics were gathered! They even hail Walmart’s health insurance for part-time workers that has been largely abandoned, and they mention nothing about how a $12,000/year full-time employee can afford over $3,000 in annual premiums! They use Walmart’s estimated figures for full-time employment but reveal nothing about the hours a week Walmart considers “full-time”, it’s less than 40!

    And you honestly believe that two articles and a letter to the editor is adequate to refute the plethora of research, books and documentaries on Walmart specifically, and low-wage saturation in general?

    At least you stopped calling them “studies”.

    Thank you.

  113. Anonymous
    December 21, 2011 at 12:48 am

    I stopped shopping at the mall when Borders shut down.

  114. December 21, 2011 at 5:13 am

    Mitch: at 9:10

    Jeez Mitch, perfectly stated, and completely accurate. Run for something for goose-sake!
    How can those who buy into the mythology of capitalism justify lowering the standard of living for the vast majority of our citizens?
    My little part-time job (outside of my trade) pays the exact same amount I was getting in 1977 (in my trade) That is a sad commentary on where we’re at.
    Yet every day prices for basic necessities like water, power and fuel have risen exponentially.
    Look at what those New Anti-American Centurions are making now compared to 1977.
    It’s amazing how busy their lackeys are using red-herrings, straw-men, and other childhood fallacies; to justify the stealing of our countries resources and freedoms.
    Seriously, we need real people in the legislatures. Do it, you have time to battle the house-slaves on the blogs; you have time to run for office.

  115. 713
    December 21, 2011 at 6:04 am

    The articles were about the studies you idiot.

  116. Anonymous
    December 21, 2011 at 7:04 am

    “Who owns Carrington properties?”

    Frances Carrington owns Carrington properties. Pattison Christensen is Bill Barnum’s brother-in-law and works for Frances Carrington.

  117. walt
    December 21, 2011 at 7:32 am

    Did we mention, BTW, that Walmart CEO Michael Duke made $18.7 million this year, including a reduced $3.9 million bonus because same-store sales have been down for two years? How big was YOUR bonus this year?

  118. December 21, 2011 at 8:05 am

    Humboldt County, organize your grocery stores that
    have 50+ employees.

    Sentry
    Murphys
    Coop
    Wildberries
    and the rest. The beginning of turning Humboldt’s
    untenable economy around. Simply fundamental, won’t happen
    because the local grocers manipulate/own the local press.

  119. December 21, 2011 at 8:44 am

    This is really simple.

    There are no (zero) capitalists around who believe that a railroad out of Eureka in any direction is economically viable without massive government subsidy.

    That is why this hodgepodge of develop-at-any-costers, port-rail development boosters and nostalgic rail fans finds itself begging from the Eureka City Council.

    Probably some local rignt wing consultancy needs a turn at the public teat too. Time to fund a “study” boys and girls!

    I am all for the study too as long as some capitalist job creator funds it.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  120. Anonymous
    December 21, 2011 at 8:57 am

    “Rural Eureka spent $30,000 to hire a respected, independent economic firm (Bay Area Economics) that concluded Eureka was saturated in low-wage retail in 1999!”

    This needs to be reiterated time and again, in the wake of Humboldt’s wealthiest real estate moguls flaunting a $30,000 check in front of the city a year ago, with all intents and purposes being to rezone for even MORE minimum wage retail limbo.

  121. jr
    December 21, 2011 at 9:51 am

    I believe that the employees of the Co-Op have joined a union. Also, where are the Sentry Markets?

  122. December 21, 2011 at 10:44 am

    jr. nah. Coop has faux union.
    just enough to fake-out the kids.

    Not AFL CIO, Retail Clerks #707

    If Coop had actually organized,
    Safeways union could have held ground.
    If HiFi is interested, the union store is the far more efficient
    top to bottom, with less injuries, happier workers, people who pay taxes- not eligible for aid due to living-wage.

    Good stuff all, red-carpet for Californians due to
    Teamster agreements.

    Organized labor (% threshold) is the foundation to decent simple middle-class economy.

  123. December 21, 2011 at 11:04 am

    Reiterated happily,

    “Rural Eureka spent $30,000 to hire a respected, independent economic firm (Bay Area Economics) that concluded Eureka was saturated in low-wage retail in 1999!”

  124. Jack Sherman
    December 21, 2011 at 12:35 pm

    713 says:
    December 21, 2011 at 6:04 am

    “The articles were about the studies you idiot”.

    Hilarious!

    The only “studies” you actually have are outdated footnotes in two highly opinionated and inaccurate articles! Much has changed in 10 years with Walmart’s growth, diminished health insurance coverage, and “full-time” employment.

    And NONE of these studies are about low-wage saturation regionally and nationwide!

    Who’s the “Idiot”?

    More and more, those who advocate for further saturation of our communities and nation in working-poverty are being labeled traitors.

  125. High Finance
    December 21, 2011 at 1:13 pm

    Eureka may have been “saturated” in low-wage retail in 1999 but it is obvious that Eureka is saturated in the unemployed in 2011.

  126. Apologist Not
    December 21, 2011 at 2:06 pm

    Indeed, America’s struggling families would drink from a poisoned well if it were the only water available.

    Brilliant sophistry traitor!

  127. Plain Jane
    December 21, 2011 at 2:40 pm

    Giving the unemployed different places to shop won’t reduce unemployment.

  128. Percy
    December 21, 2011 at 3:13 pm

    Good one HF, you are reaching Gingrichian levels of intellectual brilliance in stating the obvious.

  129. Mitch
    December 21, 2011 at 4:02 pm

    Thanks, moviedad. If I thought there was the slightest chance I could win an election, I’d consider running. But based on things I’ve said, I’m aware that I have zero chance of winning an election. Not 0.01%, zero.

    And if I were to win, I’d probably have to picket my office.

  130. 713
    December 22, 2011 at 6:32 am

    The only “studies” you actually have are outdated footnotes in two highly opinionated and inaccurate articles

    They are newer than the BAE report and the articles are not inaccurate simply because you state they are.

    I asked, “Even if walmart wrecked every retail job in the city, how would that devastate our whole economy”? And you asked for sources. So you don’t agree. That doesn’t make you right. Where are your sources?

    The idea here jack is that the people who apply for the jobs were not doing anything or had worse jobs than walmart before. Do you understand that? They were UNEMPLOYED. Then they got jobs. You can bitch that Walmart doesn’t pay or whatever, but it is better than unemployment and not that far off the other retailers.

  131. Mitch
    December 22, 2011 at 7:25 am

    713 writes,

    “I asked, “Even if walmart wrecked every retail job in the city, how would that devastate our whole economy”? ”

    And I tried to answer at 9:10 and shortly after. Do you disagree with what I wrote? Do you have a response?

  132. just middle class
    December 22, 2011 at 7:39 am

    The Humboldt Bay region has a population of about 120,000 and this new store will impact but not dominate that market. It will add additional jobs which is good, but retail never pays high wages. The value shopper already has several choices and one additional will not have the significant effect that many claim. Most small retail ventures already have been impacted by additional competition targeting the value shopper. The segment hurting is those businesses who rely on customers with discretionary income available, and therefore restraurants like Hurricane Kates are closing, just as Greystone. Walmart in Eureka is just another expected change in our area, and it will not be the last.

  133. December 22, 2011 at 7:54 am

    When the talk gets around to jobs and fair wages just remember that the 1%ers and their bootlickers like High Finance LIKE high unemployment as it lowers their wage costs and makes their employees more compliant.

    Today we see the highest corporate profits ever and the highest unemployment in 70 years in the US. This is no coincidence. It is a simple equation.

    So just remember that boulder sized grain of salt when you read High Finance’s prescriptions for economic healing. He is a charlatan, an econoquack.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  134. 713
    December 22, 2011 at 8:26 am

    Mitch,
    I didn’t want to think that hard.

    I agree the pricing comes from low wages elsewhere, but I do not agree a protectionist policy will do anything in the long run. Technology has a lot to do with the vanishing middle class but I don’t hear anyone complaining much about the iPhones.

    I believe you are right, blue collar workers felt the first wave and there is more to come. I read somewhere that India graduates a million more engineers per year than the u.s. also, you can have your taxes dne for 8.00. A friend of mine does software work and often has people from overseas develops parts of the program.

    As far as eureka and Walmart, I don’t think things will change much.

    We have to get some value added products to ship out of the area. We also need a port, railroad, and decent air service if we are going to get anywhere with our economy.

    Right now we are trading our bright kids for dopers and retirees. How come so much angst over Walmart and not a peep about the dopers who are not paying income, sales, property, or inventory tax on their billion dollar empire locally? Look at mckinleyvilles apartment complex, completely full of dope, yet we are looking to rezone places to build affordable housing. These people are driving the rents up, tearing up the buildings and qualify for low cost p g & e and social services.

    The left is really good at shooting down ideas locally, but often seem to have trouble building anything. What happened to that Eco hostel? Just a ruse to block another project, seems to me.

  135. Mitch
    December 22, 2011 at 9:10 am

    I agree the pricing comes from low wages elsewhere, but I do not agree a protectionist policy will do anything in the long run.

    Imagine if a functional political party had said, “Yes, let’s have free trade. Build factories anywhere you like: here’s the schedule on which you’ll have to equalize the wages and working conditions there with the floor requirements here. We’ll give you three years of slavery, but starting in three years, you have to increase wages by twenty percent a year until they meet our floors. Fail on that, and we’ll collect the difference, not you.”

    But the political parties are not in service to the American voters or even to a better world; they are in service to their investors’ wealth, in precisely the same way a CEO is in service to his investors’ wealth.

  136. December 22, 2011 at 9:32 am

    “I agree the pricing comes from low wages elsewhere, but I do not agree a protectionist policy will do anything in the long run.” 713

    How ill informed can we get?
    If we are to have wage and labor standards, environmental and humanity standards —how are we to compete with those that do
    not have those standards? Tariffs, Tariffs and Tariffs
    That with diplomacy- works better than war.

  137. Anonymous
    December 22, 2011 at 9:34 am

    >> “How come so much angst over Walmart and not a peep about the dopers who are not paying income, sales, property, or inventory tax on their billion dollar empire locally?”

    Because people “like you” live in a small, diseased world inside your own heads that fortunately most people are awake to regarding “dope”.

  138. Thorstein Veblen
    December 22, 2011 at 9:36 am

    just middle class says:
    December 22, 2011 at 7:39 am

    Now that you mention it, pretty much all the higher end retail is gone now. Restaurants following. I hadn’t actually noticed, it happened gradually.

  139. just middle class
    December 22, 2011 at 9:49 am

    Higher end retail is a difficult market since the internet has greatly influenced purchases. A retail business must purchase inventory, either from cash flow or a credit line, and if they miss the mark, they are in trouble. A jewlery store has huge margins, but also huge inventory. If they do not “own” the inventory and are paying for the cost of funds through a credit line, they are in trouble if there is a slowdown in sales, which is what is going on now that people are not using their homes as “debit cards” with home equity lines.
    The change in local economics has more to do with the lack of access to funds like home equity lines than pay.

  140. Somewhat friendly
    December 22, 2011 at 10:05 am

    Tariffs are what have caused wars in the past. Ah – have we learned nothing?

  141. December 22, 2011 at 10:22 am

    Tariffs can be used for ill.
    Check-out Sweden’s approach, that notorious war-monger.

    High escalating tariffs for manufactured and agricultural
    products.

    They do this for their producers (workers), not to
    encourage war, think it out.

  142. Plain Jane
    December 22, 2011 at 10:55 am

    HiFi doesn’t understand what net job loss means?

  143. jr
    December 22, 2011 at 11:40 am

    It all comes down to one thing: if we want a strong and vibrant community, economically speaking, one must never shop online. Doing so just takes money out of the local community even more so than shopping at out-of-area chain stores. If you cannot find an item you need or want locally, then ask the LOCAL merchant about ordering same. You will not pay shipping and handling fees, and the local merchants gains more business. Simple as that. By not shopping LOCAL businesses one plays right into the hand of the big chains and online businesses in adding one more nail to the area’s coffin.

  144. Jack Sherman
    December 22, 2011 at 2:15 pm

    713 says:
    December 22, 2011 at 6:32 am

    “They are newer than the BAE report and the articles are not inaccurate simply because you state they are”.

    I feel your pain 713.

    You can’t respond to my specific examples of your article’s inaccuracy that I’ve had to repeat @ 12/19 8:33, 12/20 1:43, 12/21 12:42 and 12:35, so you’re going to say “no they’re not”!

    How perfectly childish.

    The BAE report is about low-wage saturation, which has increased in the last ten years like everywhere else in America!

    You presented two articles, neither dealing with low-wage saturation!

    For the 4th time, here is my question:

    Jack Sherman says:
    December 18, 2011 at 3:52 pm

    “Please cite your source showing that rural (or national) economies benefit from low-wage employment saturation”.

    I can’t wait to see the books you’ve read in defense of low-wage saturation, here’s a few I’ve read recently, among many others that are out there, that warn about big box and low-wage saturation:

    Take This Job and Ship It, Freakenomics, The Big Box Swindle, The Small Mart Revolution, Short Circuit, Overshoot, Better Not Bigger….

    Have you read any Adam Smith?

  145. 713
    December 22, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    Jack, the problem we have here is that you are fighting a straw man. I never said rural or national economies benefit from low-wage employment saturation. I don’t agree that is what will happen. There are more jobs here than retail.

    So get over it.

    I don’t see how a walmart in Eureka will wreck the economy. My point was that retail is only a piece of the economy. Please explain to me how the lowering of retail wages will harm the dope growers – +/-25% of the economy. The government jobs – 30%…the medical professions, the woodsmen, mill workers, construction workers, etc. According to what I read the lowering of retail prices will allow people more discretionary income, which is progressive in that it benefits the poor to a greater degree. I think that is good.

    I read Freakonomics too, good book. Does that make me smart?

    Please cite a study that shows Eureka’s economy will be devastated by a walmart.

    remember –
    devastate
    Verb:
    Destroy or ruin (something).
    Cause (someone) severe and overwhelming shock or grief.

  146. December 22, 2011 at 7:49 pm

    Very interesting and informative exchange (except for HiFi of course)

  147. Jack Sherman
    December 22, 2011 at 11:43 pm

    713 says:
    December 22, 2011 at 7:12 pm

    “I never said rural or national economies benefit from low-wage employment saturation. I don’t agree that is what will happen”.

    So, when did industry and manufacturing repatriate to the U.S.?

    It’s difficult to fathom how 713’s lying eyes, the only local economic research, and a plethora of national research, could leave anyone still believing that Eureka, and much of this nation, are not already saturated in low-wage employment!

    Maybe that’s why 713 cannot respond to the fundamental errors I revealed in the two articles he offered in defense of a straw man argument that he, alone, concocted!

    No one on this string has argued: “Walmart will devastate and wreck the economy”:

    More low-wage big boxes exacerbate economies already saturated in low-wage big boxes. Communities are limited in what they can sustain, thus, this is a common subject of legitimate (public interest) economic research. It’s well-documented that low-wage, part-time, temporary employment has been steadily increasing in the U.S. following a generation of outsourcing!

    While part-time, temporary, low-wage jobs replace living-wage jobs, Main Street America has exploded with predatory industries profiting on the rising desperation.

    Walmart knows this, that’s why they’re here.

    Even 713’s articles offer wildly disparate figures on what the average family will actually save by shopping ONLY at Walmart all year. They report NOTHING on the fundamental public services families need that are being constantly cut and eliminated because too many working people now qualify for them.

    713 is sadly misinformed about how economies function. There are various sectors and black markets, however, it is the economic condition of working people that every other class above them rest upon.

    Including the marijuana growers.

  148. 713
    December 23, 2011 at 5:30 am

    Jack,
    The horse is dead.

    We disagree.

  149. jr
    December 23, 2011 at 8:34 am

    Readers may be interested in two videos posted at http://www.occupysac.com The first is the Hallelujah Corporation and the second is the Sgt Pepper Spray and Heads Clubbed Band.

  150. Anonymous
    December 23, 2011 at 9:55 am

    713, your horse is dead but some of us are trying to prevent the next one from dying. They’re dropping like flies…horse flies, hahaha! You’re not all right in the head but nobody really expects you to understand that through this forum.

  151. Stalin
    December 23, 2011 at 12:48 pm

    If you want your family to save $177/year you must shop only at Walmart all year.

  152. Apologist Not
    December 23, 2011 at 12:51 pm

    713 thinks that government jobs and MJ growers will be just fine as American families tank.

    Unbelievable.

  153. 713
    December 23, 2011 at 6:10 pm

    Unbelievable is right. I provided a link to a white paper written by the deputy director of the national economic council, a progressive democrat who was appointed by President Obama that backs up my position that walmart will not devastate the economy, and is actually good for poor people, this is what you guys come back with? Jack Sherman calls it a letter to the editor…seriously, did any of you read the link? Let me help the lazy:

    There is little dispute that Wal-Mart’s price reductions have benefited the 120 million American workers employed outside of the retail sector. Plausible estimates of the magnitude of the savings from Wal-Mart are enormous – a total of $263 billion in 2004, or $2,329 per household. Even if you grant that Wal-Mart hurts workers in the retail sector – and the evidence for this is far from clear – the magnitude of any potential harm is small in comparison. One study, for example, found that the “Wal-Mart effect” lowered retail wages by $4.7 billion in 2000.

    and

    Because moderate-income families spend a higher percentage of their incomes on food
    than upper-income families, these benefits are distributed very progressively. As shown in Table
    1, the benefits from big box grocery stores are equivalent to a 6.5 percent increase in income for
    the bottom quintile (average income of $8,201) and a 0.9 percent increase in income for the top
    quintile (average income $127,146).

    In the spring of 2004, a new Wal-Mart opened up in Glendale, Arizona. The store received 8,000 applications for 525 jobs with wages starting as low as $6.75 per hour. A Harvard applicant has a higher chance of being accepted than a person applying for a job at that Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart experiences similarly high application ratios at other jobs. These anecdotes strongly suggest that jobs at Wal-Mart are better than the opportunities these workers
    would have in the absence of Wal-Mart, either other jobs or unemployment.

    The one study that was published in a peer-reviewed economics journal found that “WalMart entry [in a county] increases retail employment by 100 jobs in the year of entry. Half of this gain disappears over the next five years as other retail establishments exit and contract, leaving a long-run statistically significant net gain of 50 jobs.” The paper also found a small negative impact on jobs at wholesalers “due to Wal-Mart’s vertical integration” and no statistically significant effect on other industries.

  154. Anonymous
    December 23, 2011 at 6:41 pm

    713 quotes some factoids: “In the spring of 2004, a new Wal-Mart opened up in Glendale, Arizona. The store received 8,000 applications for 525 jobs with wages starting as low as $6.75 per hour.”

    …then 713 continues to state another factoid: “WalMart entry [in a county] increases retail employment by 100 jobs in the year of entry. Half of this gain disappears over the next five years as other retail establishments exit and contract, leaving a long-run statistically significant net gain of 50 jobs.”

    …but 713 can’t put factoids together so he ho-hums walmart to the point of talking shit about people who would rather make our local business infrastructure stronger…requiring time to establish before malling out the whole county.

    Do you, 713, know what it eams when other retail establishments “exit and contract” and the chain reaction that had to have occured within the industry for that to happen? Walmart is its own supplier, walmart is a fucking child sweatshop operating 24 hours a day, seven days a week, doubletime on holidays, with no overtime pay, ten hour work days seven days a week.

    How many ways does it have to be said? Will you humor this notion, 713? Regardless of whether or not you buy what they sell, they are what they sell. Walmart is the most massive chinese sweatshop ever to have been concieved. It makes ancient emperors look like playground wimps. If there’s a corner of the earth where walmart can exploit human and environmental resources at maximum, walmart is doing it right this very second.

    It means more than just a local store’s employees losing their jobs when their independent business folds. It hurts their independent suppliers BIGTIME.

  155. Mitch
    December 23, 2011 at 7:00 pm

    713 writes,

    We have to get some value added products to ship out of the area.

    Agreed. Cannabis products would have a high value to weight ratio, up there with products like Holly Yashi’s jewelry. Other than that, what do we have to offer, besides boutique foods and beers? It would be great to see some value-added in seafood, though I don’t have anything specific in mind.

    We also need a port, railroad, and decent air service if we are going to get anywhere with our economy.

    This is less clear, at least to me. Of the three, decent air service is probably most urgent, but that’s largely in support of tourism. I think the reality is that tourism is one of the few things this area can offer where it has a competitive advantage. Humboldt is beautiful and spectacular, and the reason it’s still that way is the same reason most industry won’t function well here — we are out of the way, hard to get in and out of, and don’t have much infrastructure.

    A port and/or railroad would be great for increased export from the extraction industries. Would those industries be sustainable at rates that cannot be supported by trucking or short-sea shipping? You don’t want to attract industry to the area only to have it crash in five or ten or twenty years after sucking our environment dry, and hurting any potential for tourism.

    How come so much angst over Walmart and not a peep about the dopers who are not paying income, sales, property, or inventory tax on their billion dollar empire locally?

    I hear plenty of angst over the lack of taxation on dopers.

    A lot of people voted for legalization. I wish the proposal were instead complete decriminalization, allowing a local industry to grow without having to compete with RJR and the other tobacco behemoths. But if it has to be legalization, so be it. That would take care of the dopers who are not paying income, sales, property or inventory tax on their empire, if they and it exists.

    You insist on presenting Walmart as if context doesn’t matter, as if it were just a highly efficient, if nasty, retail operation. Context matters, and Walmart is far more than a retail operation.

  156. 713
    December 23, 2011 at 7:45 pm

    Anon 6 41 – please go read the white paper.

    Mitch – I don’t know what the product would be, but Yakima left, amulet left, and so have a number of others. Somehow we have the ability to start these great companies, but they have to leave for some reason or another. We have to solve that. There is a bad attitude about business here. Look at cypress grove. What a foolish thing that a business can’t even count on the zoning.

    As far as the railroad, it would be great to connect us to the rest of the freight world. It is far more efficient than trucking if you are going any distance. I think the rail would definitely benefit the mills and other manufacturers.

    I understand your issue with Walmart but I don’t think it makes any difference if you buy Chinese crap from piersons, costco, or Walmart. It’s all the same crap. We have a bigger problem than who is selling it. If they can deliver some cheaper products that allow some people a little more discretionary income then so be it.

    Mitch – in reference to an earlier thread, boing boing has an article about short selling stocks that – cough cough – supports your argument the markets are rigged, to an extent.

  157. Jack Sherman
    December 23, 2011 at 10:52 pm

    Despite his “Dead Horse” proclamation, 713 keeps repeating his lies.

    The bulk of 713’s posts are in opposition to an argument he fabricated!

    No one but 713 has claimed that “Walmart devastates and wrecks the economy”! Low-wage saturation is doing great harm to our economy.

    It’s difficult to fathom how 713′s lying eyes, the only local economic research, and a plethora of national research, could leave anyone still believing that Eureka, and much of this nation, are not already saturated in low-wage employment!

    Inferring that “low every-day prices” mitigate family’s mounting economic losses associated with outsourcing is patently absurd. Even the two, brief articles 713 relies upon wildly disagree on average family’s savings!

    To add insult to injury, 713 invokes the old canard about poor folk needing poverty-wage jobs….the same old crocodile tears shed by those who were doing “a favor” for their slaves by providing shelter and food, in effect, about the same they earn today working full-time!

  158. 713
    December 24, 2011 at 12:37 am

    Jack, the horse you beat to death is between us. I have no desire to go back and forth with a person who can not or will not think. Good luck.

  159. Jack Sherman
    December 26, 2011 at 1:34 pm

    There was only “forth”, you refused to go “back”, even once, to the obvious errors and inconsistencies I pointed out in your two little outdated articles.

    No need to wish you “luck”, you’ve imagined plenty.

  160. Plain Jane
    December 27, 2011 at 6:52 am
  161. SmokeMonster
    December 27, 2011 at 8:53 am

    713- Yakima left to produce their product cheaper in MEXICO,ask the workers at pacific powder coating. So Humboldt’s infrastructure had little to do with corporate GREED in that case.

    Isn’t Jack Sherman the old homeless LOOKING guy that’s PAID to protest any cause while begging free pizza and beer from big Louies pizza every night,getting especially inebriated during SF giants games? Maybe him and Rex have more in common than we think,my apologies if it’s another guy but I believe it’s him.

  162. December 27, 2011 at 9:24 am

    SmokedMonster 8:53 Why are you disparaging someone you do not know?
    Even if what you say is true (I remain dubious) it is none of my business what another man drinks, what he enjoys on TV or how he clothes himself. Why waste the space?

    Your Yakima comment is right-on.

  163. Mitch
    December 27, 2011 at 2:48 pm

    One of the things I’ve been mystified about is how the consumer price index “shows” that inflation is still very low.

    Well, here’s an explanation:

    http://www.bls.gov/news.release/cpi.nr0.htm

    If you dine out at restaurants, inflation is low.

    Bub if you eat at home, inflation in food nationally was 6% (which still sounds lower than what I experience at local supermarkets).

    If you use gasoline, inflation is 20%. Fuel oil for heating? 25%.

    Like clothing? Up 5%.

    But SHELTER, having collapsed, makes the inflation rate look low.

    So, the housing collapse has actually been great news! It means that even though everything costs a lot more, inflation is low. At least in the reports.

  164. Anonymous
    December 27, 2011 at 3:56 pm

    Also, mitch, it’s a pathetic claim if the focus is any longer period of time. People are still making the same or less money, so everything is way up. All comparison should be to what’s regarded as the greatest period of quality of life for the greatest amount of people, I’m assuming somewehre between 1950-1970. Everything’s downhill from there and still dropping. Sugarcoating, is what the media does. Go back to sleep everybody, everything’s fine, life is getting better, there’s more clean water and less hassle, we will all die happy and fulfilled.

  165. tra
    December 27, 2011 at 4:18 pm

    I guess for someone who is buying their first home today, they’ll pay a lot less than they’d have paid a few years ago. So, folks in that position might save enough on shelter to make up for the increased costs for food, fuel and so on.

    But most folks aren’t buying a home today, most folks have to continue paying their existing mortgages and taxes or continue to pay rent that is the same or higher. (Despite the collapse of the housing market, I haven’t talked to anyone whose rent has decreased…it looks to me like many property owners are letting their properties sit vacant rather than renting or selling for less.)

    But the real problem is not that prices on consumer goods are rising, it’s that prices are rising while most peoples’ incomes are stagnant or dropping.

    When you combine stagnant (and in many cases, shrinking) income among middle and lower-income families with rising prices for necessities like food, fuel, clothing and so on, they what you get is a recipe for middle-class and working-class impoverishment.

  166. back in the saddle
    December 27, 2011 at 4:38 pm

    Rents are high in Humboldt County because of grow houses. That’s a fact, Jack.

  167. tra
    December 27, 2011 at 5:08 pm

    back in the saddle,’

    I’m sure that the grow-house phenomenon has been a significant factor influencing rents and home prices, and that the presence of many grow houses is helping to keep the cost of housing in Humboldt artificially high despite the otherwise weak economy and weak housing market.

    Another factor is the “price stickiness” that the real estate market often shows, meaning that as housing prices stop rising, and begin to fall, owners/landlords are reluctant to sell or rent for less, even if that’s all the market will support. If they are able to, many of these folks will try to wait until market conditions improve, even if that means vacant properties.

  168. Jack Sherman
    December 27, 2011 at 7:05 pm

    SmokeMonster says:
    December 27, 2011 at 8:53 am

    “Isn’t Jack Sherman the old homeless LOOKING guy that’s PAID to protest any cause while begging free pizza and beer from big Louies pizza every night,getting especially inebriated during SF giants games? Maybe him and Rex have more in common than we think,my apologies if it’s another guy but I believe it’s him”.

    Why bother making idiotic statements that you have to apologize for?

    I haven’t been inebriated since I was in college decades ago. If I did so in Bohn’s company, it would be very ugly, with or without his new facial hair.

  169. December 27, 2011 at 9:03 pm

    I assure you Mr. Sherman, Smokemonster is a jackass who brays against his betters, a pathetic troll. He’s indignant, but ignoble; he has high expectations for others and low requirements for himself. He posts vulgar, infantile insults, yet he has thin skin.

  170. Anonymous
    December 27, 2011 at 9:34 pm

    What’s any city council meeting involve? Real estate! A big, ongoing real estate debate among the same circles of people over the same perimeters of area, and also involving countless individuals specifically effected by the impositions placed on them through said government.

    The infomercial would be insane. Commercial Real Estate, big business!!! Big Box retail, downsizing yet multiplying!(?) Diversifying! Taking advantage of the fact that somebody in government hath taken away our ability to open our own stores in those spaces instead!

    Imagine if 200 friends and acquaintences already living in proximity to the mall, or at least entirely from Humboldt County, could open a store that provides what walmart does? How did that national franchise yogurt shop get space in the arcata plaza? The rebuttle from proponents always boils down to “welcome to reality” which means “yes, and tough shit.” Walmart doesn’t even use local contractors, and treat their sole and private out-of-the-area contractor like a third party PR spokesman. The journalist doesn’t talk to Walmart, Walmart will not respond. The journalist speaks to Walmart’s “third party” contractor…the same small team of wealthy Walmart employees/spokespersons over and over and over. Everybody’s “tickled pink” to see Walmart come to town!

  171. walt
    December 28, 2011 at 6:39 am

    And if you were to talk to Walmart, how would you address Him/Her? Since corporations are persons, they must have a gender. Male? (Your Wholiness?) Female? (Your Grace)? Neuter? Gay? Trans?

  172. Anonymous
    December 29, 2011 at 3:43 pm

    Occupy Walmart!

  173. WhatNow
    December 29, 2011 at 5:04 pm

    walt says:
    December 28, 2011 at 6:39 am
    “And if you were to talk to Walmart, how would you address Him/Her? Since corporations are persons, they must have a gender. Male? (Your Wholiness?) Female? (Your Grace)? Neuter? Gay? Trans?”

    How about, “Lord Vader”?

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