Home > Equality > It’s a man’s world

It’s a man’s world

Whether it’s election year politics or simply the on-going war on a woman’s right to control her body, a surge of cavemen mentality is taking center stage.

Take extreme Republican presidential candidate Rick Santorum’s recent statement that babies conceived through rape are a gifts from god, thereby making rapists agents of the holy ghost.

In Virginia, a law will soon pass that will require women to undergo a medically unnecessary vaginal probe before having an abortion. Unnecessary and unwanted vaginal penetration is “rape” by any civilized standard, so it is bizarre that a state government would force doctors to do something so despicable. Republican complaints about government overreach fly out the window when it comes to forcing doctor’s to perform punitive procedures on women.

On Thursday, a Congressional hearing on birth control included a panel of men — and only men –organized by California Republican Darrell Issa. Reports Erin Gloria Ryan:

From Issa’s opening statements that “a man’s conscience” should guide laws in America (and his failure to see the irony in using masculine nouns in a hearing that was ultimately about female parts) to his interrupting of DC’s Eleanor Norton when she angrily requested clarification of rules, the entire hearing was was a tone deaf symphony that showcased just how delusional religious men who feel persecuted by the wide availability and accessibility of the pill actually are.

It may be 2012 but it sounds like a throwback to yesteryear when men were men and women were property.

While the above examples remind us that a current of misogyny still runs through politics and religion (and elsewhere), this is not an issue of men against women. A female Fox News* commentator recently said women should expect to be raped by their fellow soldiers if they join the military because apparently men are by nature, rapists. The problem isn’t the rape, it’s that women soldiers expect to be free from such attacks.

  1. February 17, 2012 at 10:10 am

    While I do believe in a woman’s right to choose, and I am pro-choice, Planned Parenthood is a Eugenics outfit, it’s founder Margaret Sanger was pushing Eugenics. Wanted all blacks out of the gene pool as they were ‘subhuman’ to her.

    And if you have any clue as to what is happening on this planet right now, the big picture of things is Eugenics – the elite bloodline dynasties that have controlled humanity for thousands of years want us, the slave class, weeded out of the gene pool.

    Think I am joking? Look at what has happened to fertility in 50 years. BPA, GMO, and other chemicals destroy our fertility.

    Bill Gates is coming out and saying they want to decrease world population. This is all over the web in video form, from Ted Turner, David Rockefeller, Henry Kissinger, Zbigniew Brzezinski, Queen B of the Netherlands, etc.

    Your proof is here.


    Please folks, evil people control everything we have known for over a hundred years, they have locked us out of being prosperous, and they have hidden from us the truth behind things like our health. Alternative medicines are real health. Not westernized pill pill pill take a pill for anything and everything garbage medicine.

    There is an awakening happening right now, Americans are the last to wake up as we have been programmed by the idiot box and mainstream media for decades and decades

    If you aren’t clear on the massive depopulation agenda, pushed by those that control our politics, you will lose your life in a few short years, and you can’t go back and change how you treated your body now.



    People hate Monsanto, but they don’t put the pieces together all the way sometimes – this is an agenda pushed by the global elite, and it is time to fight back.

    If we don’t fight back now, the 30,000 drones in the skies by 2015 will not let you even think about fighting against the powers that be.

    Sorry for the rant. I am sick of people that don’t know how things work keeping this horrid system in place. The time for complete revolution is now before they have their next false flag and totally change our life experience going forward…. AGAIN


  2. Just Watchin
    February 17, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Mr. Haynie seems a little cranky today. I wonder if his welfare check was late.

  3. February 17, 2012 at 10:40 am

    “…I am sick of people that don’t know how things work…”

    I don’t see any evidence that Mr. Haynie knows anything about “how things work.”

  4. February 17, 2012 at 10:51 am

    keep on with the ad hominem, rolls right off my back.

  5. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 11:05 am

    We need more Haynies commenting. The blogs would be much more amusing places to hang out, toying with these conspiratorial minds.

  6. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Yes Haynie, I think your joking, or your a joke or maybe your the best argument for the continued legality of abortion.

  7. February 17, 2012 at 11:33 am

    Please anonymous posters, learn proper grammar and syntax. If you are going to imply I should have been aborted, at least learn how to type it in legible English! :)

    Keep in mind, I am the one having fun here, understanding how the world works, while you fluoride heads scratch and furrow your brows in confusion.

    DIE SLOW, MOTHERFUCKERS!!!!!!!!! -Immortal Technique

  8. February 17, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Mr. Haynie has an interesting website. Couldn’t tell where he’s from though.

    By the way, rape is about control. Which according to some folks, “could” be a gift from God…

  9. Just Watchin
    February 17, 2012 at 11:45 am

    I think Haynie is trading his food stamps for WhackyTabacky.

  10. February 17, 2012 at 11:52 am

    I’m not appealing to emotion, Mr. Haynie, you make lunatic claims without offering any evidence. “Chemtrails” are way off subject, and I doubt that Margaret Sanger ever claimed that black people were “subhuman,” those are your words.

  11. monsanto
    February 17, 2012 at 11:52 am

    Colbert says that by using contraceptives, you’re cock blocking the Almighty.

  12. February 17, 2012 at 11:54 am

    Now it’s fluoride. What conspiracy is he not into?

  13. Mitch
    February 17, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    The “elite bloodline dynasties” are in for a surprise if they ever figure out Biology 101. Didn’t the British figure this out eons ago?

    Of course, it’s entirely possible that their secret goal is to make the planet safe for cockroaches.

    I have no idea who founded Planned Parenthood. Does it matter?

  14. February 17, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    Evidence was posted, clearly. But, to you mind controlled slaves, evidence of what is really happening on this planet doesn’t exist ANYWHERE.

    Not here: http://www.cfr.org/about/corporate/roster.html

    Or here: http://www.rockefellerfoundation.org/uploads/files/1496d619-017d-4b13-8a64-fce8ed4f785d-1968.pdf

    Please, you slaves to a doublethink mind control system….. don’t you realize the CIA pumps in all the drugs? The CIA traitors and their bloodlines have been doing this throughout the centuries. Look at what they did to the Chinese with the East Indian Trading Company and opium.

    Look at how ther brought down Rome 2000 years ago.

    Learn history. Ever read ‘War Is A Racket’?


  15. February 17, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    You sure yell a lot, Mr. Haynie, for someone who is “the one having fun here.”

  16. Just Watchin
    February 17, 2012 at 12:30 pm

    Mr. Haynie,

    I only have one question…….How long did it take to train Arnold Ziffle?

  17. High Finance
    February 17, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    I want to hear more about this “Global dimming” crisis !!

    Wait, I’m sorry, “GLOBAL DIMMING” crisis.

  18. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 12:50 pm

    Mr. Haynie, why don’t you go and procreate yourself.

  19. February 17, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    It is obvious you uninformed people just don’t want to address any of my evidence



    Talk about evidence including my direct link to the Rockefeller Foundation, which is pertinent to this article on abortion – or be ignored.

  20. February 17, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    It would take a lot more than two links to back up the many far-fetched claims you’ve made here, pal. But thanks for not shouting.

  21. tra
    February 17, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    “….or be ignored.”

    Don’t mind if I do.

  22. Arnold Ziffle
    February 17, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Mr. Haynie……Please come home. I need fed.

  23. February 17, 2012 at 1:02 pm

    I’m not your pal Joel, not at all.

    Just to be clear.

    I love humanity, but the braindead people that are keeping this entire control system in place, like most of all of you, deserve what is coming.

  24. Emerald Hexagon
    February 17, 2012 at 1:17 pm


    There is some really scary things happening in the world of women health, as Heraldo pointed out.

  25. February 17, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Sorry, Emerald Hex, I shouldn’t have taken Ras David’s bait. He’s promoting his own wack-job agenda.

    It’s sad-as-hell that we’re discussing basic civil rights for women in 2012.

  26. tra
    February 17, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    The Republicans are really going off the rails with this anti-contraception jihad. Sure, it rallies their base (or at least part of it), but it also rallies their opponents, and, most importantly, it’s going to kill them with independents.

    By the way, does anybody else remember that debate a couple of months ago when Romney was asked a question about contraception? He reacted as if he was just absolutely flabbergasted that such a question would be asked, and ended by saying “Contraception, it’s working just fine, leave it alone.” For once, I agreed with him wholeheartedly.

    But with the right-wing christianist base of the Republican Party now rallying behind Rick Santorum (!), suddenly an issue that was dismissed as irrelevant by the GOP’s frontrunner just a few months ago is now being pushed hard by Republicans in Congress, by conservative religious leaders, by various GOP candidates and their surrogates, and by right wing pundits and media figures.

    I guess to those folks, Romney’s statement that “contraception, it’s working just fine, leave it alone” was probably seen as a real slap in the face. But they may come to find out that their decision to place so much effort and attention toward this anti-contraception campaign, may end up coming back and and biting them in the ass during the general election.

  27. February 17, 2012 at 2:03 pm

    Treating contraception as if it’s a subject that’s open for discussion is a foot-in-the-door tactic. The religious right is assuming that they can drag us backward incrementally, as they’ve done with taxes, “entitlements,” firearms and other issues. Beware: the tactic has been successful.

  28. Plain Jane
    February 17, 2012 at 2:13 pm

    The bright side of all this is our choices in November should be relatively easy no matter what flavor beverage you like best. IMO, the right seems to be deliberately sabotaging their chances, whether by tone deafness of how strongly the majority feels about a number of issues, particularly reproductive choice, SS and MC, and tax rates; or deliberately because they have no solutions so prefer to heckle, obstruct to avoid blame.

  29. Joseph Smith
    February 17, 2012 at 2:16 pm

    There was a story on the tv the other day, about Warren Jeffs, psuedo-husband to some 75+/- women and underage girls, kicking a guy out of the ‘true believer’ LDS (Mormon) sect because he admitted having sex with his wife without the intent of conceiving a child. In other words, just for the fun of it. And apparently using some kind of contraceptive.

    Interesting, the like minds on this issue. Elect a right winger; welcome to the compound.

  30. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 2:22 pm

    “every sperm is sacred
    every sperm is good
    every sperm is needed
    in your neighborhood

    every sperm is sacred
    every sperm is great
    if a sperm is wasted
    God gets quite irate”

  31. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    Actually joel, your initial respose to david is really lame. You have a habit of sayng nothing by way of insult, then following through with flame. A lot of what david wrote is coming from the right direction. The truth is the truth, no matter how it’s put. You don’t prescribe to “conspiracy” “news” (quotes for your lack of consideration), so much of what david suggested is really not a subject YOU can claim to know anything about other than as flame fodder on blob blogs like this.

    Out of sight, out of mind. Africa is being used as a chemical testing ground, hundreds of millions of people being innoculated daily with experimental chemicals of who knows what. i suppose you know all about it, joel, as well as the history of eugenics in this country, and it’s ties to the bush administration etc. Chemtrails are very real. Industry and population are out of control. If the frenzied format of what david wrote puts you off (or baits you, or vice versa) look into those topics with some seriousness. It’s very serious. The weather is dramamtically different than a couple decades ago. The population is out of control. Any intelligent forum built on controlling the planet (again, however YOU want to put it) is absolutely aware of this in more ways than we civilian plebes can ever piece together from all the obvious empirical evidence already.

    But that’s not to say anything about this particular topic, which is disgusting. Also, a big distraction, as it will definitely be repealed. Your final comment, joel @ 2:03, is right on the mark.

  32. Plain Jane
    February 17, 2012 at 2:30 pm

    Is it odd that many of the same words are used to describe sexual and religious feelings? Anyone know what spiritual ecstasy feels like?

  33. February 17, 2012 at 2:35 pm

    “Coming from the right direction”? What sort of lame affirmation is that? Evidently, chemtrails are “coming from the right direction” as far as you are concerned, Anonymous. Good luck with that.

  34. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 2:40 pm

    What the hell are you talking about joel? That doesn’t even make any sense. I really don’t get it.

  35. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 2:41 pm

    “evidently, chemtrails are coming from the right direction”???

  36. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    LOL, for real joel, laughing. That’s classic joel. You took all of no time to think about anything, just flame.

  37. tra
    February 17, 2012 at 2:54 pm

    I think you’re right, Joel, in that this “foot in the door” on contraception is part of a longer-term strategy by the right wing of the right wing, and we need to view it that way.

    But in this case the strategy seems very likely to backfire politically…at least in the short-term, and in my opinion, most likely in the long-term, too.

    I guess to the True Believers that make up a significant portion of the GOP’s right-wing christianist base, that doesn’t really matter. In their minds, they belive they’re “doing God’s work” in the short-term, and they’re content to “let go and let God” take care of the long term.

    But as far the establishment Republicans who care most about gaining and holding onto power in the short-term, I’d expect that many of them would be a bit chagrined at the prospect of potentially alienating droves of moderate and independent voters, just before the presidential election.

  38. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 2:55 pm

    “Anyone know what spiritual ecstasy feels like?”

    Goosebumps standing in the middle of the forest during a downpour…and such. One of my biggest inspirations are people who shine through the dirt that covers their unwashed faces. They have no place to go and nothing to carry, live day to day yet manage to enjoy life more than the wealthiest among us.

  39. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 3:12 pm

    “Is it odd that many of the same words are used to describe sexual and religious feelings?”

    Not so much to do with this, but it is funny that “fuck” and “shit” are the unholiest of letter and sound combinations among our people, yet neither are in any way “bad” unless intentionally prescribed such context. What’s the movie, “you feeling better today?” “yeah, nothing a good shit and a nice fuck couldn’t take care of.” We’re trained to deny the animal we are.

  40. tra
    February 17, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Of course having spent the past couple of decades chasing their base ever rightward, the GOP and its candidates are now in a bit of a political bind on this issue. Moderate “swing voters” are bound to be turned off by the far-right’s current contraception obsession, but at the same time, if the GOP and its candidates don’t pander sufficiently to the right-wing christianist faction that composes a large part of their base, some of those voters might sit out the presidential election, or could possibly cast their vote for a third-party candidate:

    “Former Rep. Virgile Goode (R-VA) has confirmed to the Richmond Times Dispatch that he is running for president, as a candidate for the Christian right-wing Constitution Party.”


  41. February 17, 2012 at 3:25 pm

    “Coming from the right direction” was Anonymous’ defense of David Haynie’s assorted conspiracy theories and other claims. I’m looking for some logic. You could just as easily say, “Rick Santorum may be factually incorrect, but he’s coming from the right direction.” Insisting that people attempt to use evidence and reason in an argument is not flaming. When I call you a drooling moron, Anonymous 2:42, that’s flaming.

  42. February 17, 2012 at 3:43 pm

    Jesus H Christ on a craker…

  43. High Finance
    February 17, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    What claptrap people.

    You use any sorry excuse to slam Republicans or conservatives who may as well be Martians to you for the amount you know about us.

    The anti contraceptive people are a tiny, tiny minority of the Republican base. The media & partisan Dems try to pretend to believe otherwise.

    You’re just making yourselves look stupid.

  44. February 17, 2012 at 3:58 pm

    I hope that you’re right, HiFi, but conservatives sure are making a Santorum-stained spectacle of themselves in the primaries.

  45. Fact Checker
    February 17, 2012 at 3:59 pm

    High Finance says:
    February 17, 2012 at 3:54 pm

    “The anti contraceptive people are a tiny, tiny minority of the Republican base.”

    Is that a fact Hi Fi?

    “Republicans defended the hearing as being about freedom of religion, not abortion. The title of the session was “Has the Obama Administration Trampled on Freedom of Religion and Freedom of Conscience?” Most of the witnesses were religious conservatives who oppose the president’s policy, which would exempt religious institutions from having to offer birth control coverage but require insurance companies to provide it.”

  46. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    ” You could just as easily say,”

    Actually if you require an analogy to describe what’s right in front of you, joel, you’re the one looking in the wrong direction.

    “Insisting that people attempt to use evidence and reason in an argument is not flaming.”

    That could be said of any argument about anything. Your comment about conservatives shortly above says absolutely nothing in the same regard…pure conjecture. You have a remarkable double standard when locked in defense-mode.

    “When I call you a drooling moron, Anonymous 2:42, that’s flaming.”

    …and the truth comes out, that you really aren’t thinking about anything, just flaming.

  47. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    Hey, joel, take time to respond to “High Finance” much? Goober.

  48. February 17, 2012 at 4:41 pm

    Nixon’s sage advice to his protégés, Bob Dole and Pete Wilson, was “run to the right in the primaries, and back to the middle as fast as you can in the general election.” He didn’t mean “run into a ditch on the right,” but this is what the Republican candidates are doing. The issue of birth control was settled decades ago, but as Fact Checker pointed out (above), Republican candidates seem to believe that it’s still up in the air.

  49. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 4:48 pm

    left/right/up/down…conservo/republo/demo/libero…bored dinosaurs playing on the computer. So easily distracted.

  50. Yeah Right
    February 17, 2012 at 4:57 pm

    And Anonymous 4:48 isn’t distracted?

  51. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 5:46 pm

    I get distracted, but no, I’m not. We’re born into a world of distraction bent on maintaining our attention. Look how easy it is. Where’s the real hindsight? Where’s the real foresight? So many people still glued to the readymade storybook. It took a sincere amount of humility and a lot of thought and attention to deprogram myself from the upbringing most of us experienced. I expect nothing but ridicule and insult for this comment, but that’s how ‘tiz.

    Consider how many nonrefundable days of joel’s life he’s spent reading and responding to “high finance”, one of the most obvious fakes in the humboldt blogsphere. You’d think he has stock in the herald. If he’s really THAT bored and desperate for conversation, it says little of his worth in talking to as well.

    Here’s one of many that some of you must have missed:


    History doesn’t repeat itself…there’s something new for the sheeple to bleet about every day.

  52. February 17, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    Its crazy to think that the Repubs really think that Santorum could beat Obama. Mitt’s the only hope in my opinion, but what scares me as an Independent is whether he will flip-flop too far to the right. What we need is a “slight” shift to the right. Obama is going to be very tough to beat unless the repubs get the Indy vote, which they most certainly will not with anyone from the far right.

  53. tra
    February 17, 2012 at 6:04 pm

    Apparently the Republican leadership in the House and Senate are part of that “tiny, tiny minority of the Republican base” that HiFi’s talking about. Or perhaps they’re just pandering to that tiny minority?

    Either way, it’s a bit silly to blame Democrats or journalists for the fact that these Republican Congressional leaders decided to try to push their anti-contraception legislation through Congress.

  54. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 6:05 pm

    “It would take a lot more than two links to back up the many far-fetched claims you’ve made here, pal.”

    No, but the information within those two links would be a sincere start for joel. They’re right on topic, but alas, he doesn’t frequent the herald to be “wrong”. Nor does he demonstrate any growth of knowledge other than the readymade information that’s shoved in front of everybody’s face on a daily basis. I don’t necessarily look for ways to be wrong either, but I hold my tongue infinitely more than not, and certainly acknowledge when I am.

  55. Anonymophile
    February 17, 2012 at 6:41 pm

    Well, finally, something interesting to read. Anonymous of this afternoon, thanks.

    I notice almost all comments so far on the topic of what women do with their bodies have been submitted by men and haven’t addressed the real issue. Men want to control women. It is the basis of Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions. Squash the goddess, She is WAY to powerful.

  56. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    At least your mom has to be Jewish for you to be, elevating the mom goddess to have a little power.

  57. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    I smell a man hater @ 6:41. You can control me, baby, any way you like…but if you prefer it the other way around, I’m happy to oblige.

  58. Anonymous
    February 17, 2012 at 8:37 pm

    It’s true, 6:44. Our world has all of these cultures that control women, including much of our own country. It’s so sad to see these archaic guys who think they need to control their women. Pathetic, really, and the women who put up with it are stuck forever, most of them. Nobody is getting anywhere in those relationships.

  59. High Finance
    February 18, 2012 at 6:48 am

    The Anonymous at 4.31pm and 5.46pm has made the same post many many times.

    He is a sad example of a totally uninformed extremist who lacks any understanding of conservatives and does not understand we are in the majority of this country. Not the caricature of conservatives as he thinks we are but the real conservatives he does not even try to understand or want to learn about.


  60. walt
    February 18, 2012 at 7:14 am

    The hungry Sheep look up, and are not fed,
    But swoln with wind, and the rank mist they draw,
    Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread:

    Thanks, 5:46!

  61. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 8:24 am

    Hi fi thinks conservatives are in the majority in this country, Lets make a bet on it. If November proves him wrong, will he even acknowledge it?

  62. High Finance
    February 18, 2012 at 8:52 am

    A poll was taken last year which asked people to describe themselves.

    40% said conservative
    30% said moderate
    20% said liberal

  63. Down the Road
    February 18, 2012 at 8:54 am

    My whole family voted Republican for years. I don’t when or where
    the Republicans started this religious dogma.

    I might vote Republican again if all the right-wing religious bigots
    were castrated. It is all about control. Look at the religions of the

  64. High Finance
    February 18, 2012 at 9:00 am

    Let me update that.

    “Gallup poll shows 41% self-identify as conservative vs 21% liberal”


  65. February 18, 2012 at 9:00 am

    Yes, HiFi, that’s why the Supreme Court felt compelled to choose Bush over Gore, and why the Bush victory over the lamest of liberal candidates, Kerry, was such a landslide.

    You keep referring to this “poll,” but you’d be more convincing if you’d consult reality.

  66. February 18, 2012 at 9:02 am

    Oh, and while you were snoozing, HiFi, Barack Obama won a solid victory over a conservative.

  67. High Finance
    February 18, 2012 at 9:21 am

    Sorry Joel, you are looking past extenuating circumstances.

    Al Gore ran as a moderate. He tried to steal the election by stealing Florida and the Supreme Court stopped him.

    Obama ran toward the center in the general election. He was also the first black person to run with the party’s nomination and three, he ran against a weak candidate with an even weaker vice presidential running mate.

    “this poll” was done by Gallup.

  68. Plain Jane
    February 18, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Obama ran throughout his campaign to the left of where he has been leading which is why a significant portion of his disapproval ratings are from his left. We aren’t going to vote for anyone to his right. Self labeling polls are meaningless. What matters is the issues on which people make their political decisions and the national majority in this country vote consistently for liberal policies.

  69. Arnold Ziffle
    February 18, 2012 at 9:43 am

    To Plain Jane…… If your statement was correct, how is it that there have ever been ANY Conservatives in ANY office, since you say that the “national majority” vote consistently for liberal policies.

  70. February 18, 2012 at 9:50 am

    “He tried to steal the election by stealing Florida and the Supreme Court stopped him.”

    Yeah right, HiFi.

  71. Plain Jane
    February 18, 2012 at 10:20 am

    Because most “conservatives” in public office don’t get there if they don’t support the liberal policies their constituents favor, Arnold. The bait and switch game the GOP has been playing is catching up to them.

    Our country’s electors and representatives aren’t fairly allocated, Low population states have greater per capita political power than more densely populated states due to the minimum number they are allocated regardless of population. A state with a population the size of a small city (Alaska) has 2 Senators with the same power as states like California and New York and rural areas are generally redder than urban. But majorities in every state support public education, Medicare, Social Security, health care reform, business regulations, labor laws, etc. despite their elected politicians trying to convince them after the election that they don’t need and can’t afford such big government intervention.

  72. Mitch
    February 18, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Factcheck.org has a decent summary of Florida 2000 at http://www.factcheck.org/2008/01/the-florida-recount-of-2000/

    Simple fact is, to the best of people’s knowledge, more ballots were cast for Gore than for Bush. FactCheck doesn’t make too much of this, but at least they admit it. The fascinating part is seeing FactCheck’s summary of the way media outlets portrayed, or failed to portray, this simple fact.

    The American media has become more like the old Pravda than we want to acknowledge; you have to read it carefully to figure out what they’re *really* reporting. And that’s when they even bother to include the truth in their reports.

    The headline following the million dollar media recount should have been very simple: Gore Won.

  73. Plain Jane
    February 18, 2012 at 10:31 am

    Not to mention the 10’s of thousands of people denied the right to vote because they were wrongly purged from the rolls by a private firm hired by Gov. Bush.

  74. Just Watchin
    February 18, 2012 at 10:41 am

    I can’t believe that there is still whining over the Bush/Gore election. You lost……..get over it.

  75. Mitch
    February 18, 2012 at 11:07 am

    Just Watchin,

    Not whining, just truth-telling. What happened happened, but the truth is still the truth. When I see Hi Fi trying to spread a lie, I respond, because the lie is significant to me.

    Did you know that bankers tried to stage a coup against FDR?
    That’s one truth that’s been mostly buried. Look up Smedley Butler.

    Did you know that MLK was far more radical than he’s been portrayed? That’s another.

    Gore won 2000. That’s a third.

  76. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 11:50 am

    Santorum is just an inbred bible thumping backwoods hillbilly dressed up in a suit. Scary that there are people that actually think like he does. It makes our species look pretty barbaric. Monsanto is truly a monster and the world is overpopulated-two facts.

  77. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 11:53 am

    Gore really did win and we all got cheated big time.

  78. Harold Knight
    February 18, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    What’s amusing is when right wing liars call themselves conservatives as “High Finance” does… same for all those men still trying to turn back the clock on woman’s rights, if only for a moment…they are not “conservatives” they are radical ideologues.

    They claim their beliefs are shared by a “majority” of Americans while half the nation’s eligible voters never participate in U.S. elections.

  79. Alas
    February 18, 2012 at 12:19 pm

    Anonymous says:
    February 18, 2012 at 11:50 am

    “Santorum’s just an inbred bible thumping backwoods hillbilly dressed up in a suit. Scary that there are people that actually think like he does. It makes our species look pretty barbaric.”

    Never seen a local election, eh?

  80. a non
    February 18, 2012 at 12:21 pm

    HiFi has again displayed his acumen with numbers. He thinks 40% equals a majority. Think a little HiFi. You set up two categories: conservative and not conservative.

    Conservative = 40
    Not Conservative = 60

    Which number is larger? Grade school math, HiFi

  81. a non
    February 18, 2012 at 12:25 pm

    And before you say moderates are conservative, think a little. Extreme is the best word to describe those who identify as conservative these days.

  82. a non
    February 18, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    While on the topic of percentages, only 2% of Catholic women observe the dictum set down by Catholic men. Essentially all Catholic women use birth control – a fact that puts the bishops’ balls in a bunch.

    Why can’t the men commenting on this thread stay on topic?

  83. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 12:33 pm


  84. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 12:37 pm


  85. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 12:38 pm


  86. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 12:41 pm

    Alas 12:19 You are right we don’t have to look very far do we. Probably as close as city hall on a Tuesday night.

  87. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    Sour grapes, 1241…sour grapes. Try to get out and enjoy life once in awhile. Not everyone who differs from you politically is a “backwoods hillbilly”; diminishing them in that manner does stifle honest politcal discourse.

  88. February 18, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    santorum 27470 up, 9267 down

    January 3, 2012 Urban Word of the Day
    The sometimes frothy, usually slimy, amalgam of lubricant, stray fecal matter, and ejaculate that leaks out of the receiving partner’s anus after a session of anal intercourse. Named, by popular demand and usage, after legislator Rick Santorum because of his homophobic political statements.

    “That move was about as slick as santorum!”

  89. February 18, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    Hey, Heraldo! I thought your blog article was both pertinent and relevant. After reading down through these comments, I’d say your normal classless lot of commenters completely co-opted you and your blog. They took your classy standards right into the sewer. Pitty.

  90. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 1:34 pm

    8:37, granted but don’t ignore the fact that women are trained to be eachothers’ own worst enemies in too many ways. Women can be and are just as corrupt and corruptable, and unto eachother they hold no punches. Woman is the nigger of the world, yes, but look how black subcultures have been taught to sing and talk about shooting and killing and one-upping and money and wealth as status, all without regard just the same.

    Look at the people who frequent these blogs. See them? They worship computer screens and base their entire comprehension of the world around them on what the media shoves down our throats whether we like it or not.

  91. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 1:38 pm


    over and over and over for longer than I’ve been alive.

    Meanwhile, in the real world….they’re sitting in front of some screen bullshitting about what they see on some screen.

  92. a non
    February 18, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    1:34, “Look at the people who frequent these blogs. See them?”,

    Take a look in a mirror, 1:34. You are among that group you describe, with your own limited comprehension of the world.

    That said, this thread has gone seriously astray from the topic. The men commenting are not willing or able to address the issue. Let’s move along. Next topic…

  93. Anonymous
    February 18, 2012 at 3:05 pm

    “Take a look in a mirror, 1:34.”

    Do you think I lack such awareness? My work here is different than participatory, however, and I don’t prescribe to the bullshit that’s already hardening the cerebral arteries of most of these chumps.

    That said, I am a man, what issue is it that I’m unable to address? “Men want to control women”? Sure, I agree. The same types of guys you see above, blabbing their arrogance away about romney and speculums er santorums or the white house or dan rather or some go nowhere waste of time bullshit.

  94. February 18, 2012 at 3:49 pm

    “My work here is different than participatory…”

    Sure. You simply comment, while the rest of “these chumps” simply comment.

  95. February 18, 2012 at 4:28 pm

    Best pieces of info/ideas on here:

    “We’re trained to deny the animal we are.”

    “left/right/up/down…conservo/republo/demo/libero…bored dinosaurs playing on the computer. So easily distracted.”

    “I notice almost all comments so far on the topic of what women do with their bodies have been submitted by men and haven’t addressed the real issue. Men want to control women. It is the basis of Jewish, Christian and Muslim religions. Squash the goddess, She is WAY to powerful.”<——SPOT ON, THINGS WENT WRONG WITH HUMANITY WHEN WE STOPPED WORSHIPPING WOMEN, I SAY GOOD DAY TO PATRIARCHY!!!!! lol

    Blessings to all of you in these times of tumult.

  96. 713
    February 18, 2012 at 4:31 pm

    I did not get the same thing out of the article you linked to. It seems to back up the position that gore might have won if they had done a full recount.

  97. tra
    February 18, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    “…I don’t prescribe to the bullshit…”

    I think the word you’re looking for is “subscribe.” This is not intended to be a snarky put-down, I just noticed the same error in a couple of comments and thought you might want to know.

  98. walt
    February 18, 2012 at 7:20 pm

    If your doctor prescribed bullshit, would you take it?

  99. Down the Road
    February 18, 2012 at 7:28 pm

    First of all Gore did win. Florida is as corrupt as Eureka. The Supreme Court votes according to the party that chose them.
    Rarely do we see a honest appraisal from the Justice’s of the Court.
    This is an issue of control. Santorum is disgusting, so is Romney.
    In order to have any say in our quality of life, we should correct
    the local government. Look at all the god damn laws Eureka is
    breaking. It would be smart to start locally.

  100. Mitch
    February 18, 2012 at 8:43 pm


    From the FactCheck article:

    “On the other hand, the study also found that Gore probably would have won, by a range of 42 to 171 votes out of 6 million cast, had there been a broad recount of all disputed ballots statewide.”

    From the New York Times:

    “But the consortium, looking at a broader group of rejected ballots than those covered in the court decisions, 175,010 in all, found that Mr. Gore might have won if the courts had ordered a full statewide recount of all the rejected ballots.”


    “A statistical analysis conducted for The Times determined that if all counties had followed state law in reviewing the absentee ballots, Mr. Gore would have picked up as many as 290 additional votes, enough to tip the election in Mr. Gore’s favor in some of the situations studied in the statewide ballot review.”

    If the question is “who had more votes in Florida in 2000, Bush or Gore,” the answer is Gore. Sure, there are questions about which ballots would have been recounted under which scenarios. But on the straightforward question of who had more votes, the answer is clear: Gore did.

    That’s before getting into such stuff as the Palm Beach County butterfly ballot (source of Jews for Buchanan), the unethical if not illegal purging of valid voters from voter rolls, and so on.

    Once W occupied the White House, the only ethical path would have been to make himself a very strict centrist, since he had not won the election. He did the opposite, to no one’s surprise.

  101. High Finance
    February 18, 2012 at 9:07 pm

    Silly Anon 12.21pm, what 41-21 DOES mean is that there are almost twice as many conservatives in this country than there are liberals like you.

    Mitch, you expose your lack of objectivity and lack of statistics knowledge. There is no frackin’ way anyone could ever project a victory of 42 votes out of 6,000,000 cast. The plain truth is that even Al Gore knew that. That is why he only wanted liberal counties recounted and not the whole state.

    Besides, you should be counting your lucky stars. If that moron Gore had been president during 9/11 the Democrat party would have been destroyed for the next ten years.

  102. walt
    February 18, 2012 at 9:36 pm

    Instead, it destroyed itself, by becoming that which it was opposing.

  103. a non
    February 18, 2012 at 10:14 pm

    HiFi, my expectations of you are low because you think and write nonsense like this: “Silly Anon 12.21pm, what 41-21 DOES mean is that there are almost twice as many conservatives in this country than there are liberals like you.”

    Conservative issues of the day are opposing reproductive rights for women and opposing gay marriage.

    On the first issue, the topic at hand, national polls indicate that the majority:
    1. think religiously affiliated institutions should be required to provide insurance coverage for birth control
    2. think abortion should be available, either without restrictions or with some restrictions

    Depending on the poll, 60-75% do not agree with the 40% “conservatives”. Go figure, HiFi. Really.

    40% identify as conservative, but conservative issues rank lower than 40%. Meaning…conservatives are a fringe group whose issues are not in agreement with the majority.

  104. 713
    February 19, 2012 at 7:07 am

    From the factcheck article:

    None of these findings are certain. County officials were unable to deliver as many as 2,200 problem ballots to the investigators that news organizations hired to conduct the recount. There were also small but measurable differences in the way that the “neutral” investigators counted certain types of ballots, an indication that different counters might have come up with slightly different numbers. So it is possible that either candidate might have emerged the winner of an official recount, and nobody can say with exact certainty what the “true” Florida vote really was.

  105. High Finance
    February 19, 2012 at 7:30 am

    A non, what is sad is how you revel in your ignorance and have no wish to become educated.

    The “conservative issues of the day” are not contraceptives as alledged above.

    There are two types of conservatives, social and fiscal. The social conservatives are primarily concerned about abortion, declining moral standards and gay marriage. But the fiscal conservatives are more concerned about the exploding national deficit, insane national debt and the growing entitlement mentality of our citizens and the dire future they hold on our country.

  106. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 7:31 am


    Yes. All the coverage emphasized the uncertainties. And someone above correctly says that the contest was effectively a tie — the differences under every scenario remain well below the accuracy available.

    HOWEVER, if you handle a tie by asking the question, “who did we determine had the most votes cast in the state, after our absolutely best effort and including everything we could,” the answer is Gore.

    I understand why the media de-emphasized this, and it may even have been for decent reasons (in some cases), but it doesn’t change the facts.

  107. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 7:40 am


    Continuing on the issue of the contest being a tie, consider the outrage that would have resulted if Bush and Gore had agreed to flip a coin prior to the recount.

    That would actually have been the “scientific” approach, but it would also have been scandalous. The practical approach is therefore to do your best effort at finding a winner, even knowing that the uncertainties are higher than the difference.

    The Supreme Court outlawed that approach, in a decision that discredited the majority for the rest of their lives and did almost immeasurable damage to the stature of the court.

    Both sides will work hard to eliminate marginal ballots. As in Minnesota in 2008, you publish what you can about the challenged ballots and give the world your best guess:


    It would have been difficult due to the chad issue, but it was rendered moot by the blatant partisanship of five people.

  108. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 8:09 am


    (With apologies to those who are looking for an on-topic discussion, but with recognition that Bush v Gore had more effect on our lives than any SCOTUS decision since Roe v Wade. I guess I never have “gotten over it” — it convinced me that the country’s institutions no longer work honestly or objectively.)

    Here is a good collection of articles on the Bush v Gore decision.


    But Jeffrey Toobin says exactly what I believe:


    “The case didn’t just scar the Court’s record; it damaged the Court’s honor. “

  109. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 8:21 am

    sigh, at least Lieberman didn’t become vice president.

  110. walt
    February 19, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Some things need remembering, like Dred Scott, Executive Order 9095, and Bush v Gore.

  111. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 9:30 am

    don’t forget citizens united Walt.

  112. 713
    February 19, 2012 at 10:08 am

    I think the answer was “maybe Gore”. How can you say he had the most votes by 50 or 100 out of 6 million after the fact when counties didn’t turn in 2200 votes, there were differences in who counted what, and remember, the degradation of the “hanging chads” etc.

  113. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 10:47 am


    I can’t say who had the most votes. Nobody can.

    I can only say that:

    –the result of
    –the best effort of
    –the media consortium effort
    –to fully count the votes

    was that Gore had the most votes.

    It’s also interesting to note that Roberts, now on the supreme court, was Bush’s lawyer in the 2000 recount.

  114. Just Watchin
    February 19, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Still can’t let it go, can ya ?

  115. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 10:59 am

    Re: prescribe vs. subscribe, glad somebody understands the difference. Same person writes: Some things need remembering, like Dred Scott, Executive Order 9095, and Bush v Gore. Yes! Those and many more. So many acts of pure insanity and indisputable corruption are being thrown in our faces yet people still think the powers that be are playing by some sort of communal rules. It’s all fake, everybody on the political roster is kissing ass and has to do what they’re told or they wouldn’t be there in the first place. We’re –> controlled <– by a totalitarian military government. The little voting booths are cute, but don't add up to anything in the big picture. Those people are doing what they want, and our "local representatives" are forced to work within the confines of kissing our "state and federal representatives" asses, and they're all having milionairre tycoon lunches together discussing how great they can make the future for everybody…in their little invesment circles.

    To each their own…it doesn't matter that everybody's playing this blog game except when push comes to shove in our little hometown humboldt, next thing you know walmart might be setting up shop and they'll probably start shipping our water and logs to china or in the not too distant future. Wait, I already said that was going to happen, and now it's happened.

  116. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Just Watchin’,

    Why would anyone “let go” of the truth?

    I understand that Dubya has come and gone. What a ride that was, right? He lives on, though, in Citizens United and the other path-clearing that his appointees performed.

    Reality is what it is. We may or may not be able to change things, but there’s little point in fooling ourselves about what’s true just because it’s such a popular pastime.

  117. tra
    February 19, 2012 at 11:51 am

    “sigh, at least Lieberman didn’t become vice president”

    Yeah, instead we got Dick Cheney. Whoopee.

    However, I AM thankful that Lieberman didn’t have the opportunity to try to use the vice-presidency as a steppingstone to the presidency.

    I doubt he could have won, but I’m glad we didn’t have to find out.

  118. tra
    February 19, 2012 at 12:05 pm

    Obviously the best thing would have been to have a full recount of all the counties in Florida, then let the judicial process deal with any challenged ballots, and abide by the result. That’s how statewide recounts are usually handled, for example the nearly tied senate race in Minnesota a couple of years ago (where Sen. Al Franken eventually prevailed).

    Unfortunately, Gore’s campaign tried to get recounts conducted only in counties where they thought a re-count would be likely to benefit their campaign. In so doing, they both yielded the moral high ground and provided an excuse for the Supreme Court to take action to halt the recount. The way I recall it is that the Gore campaign only demanded a full recount later on, after their attempt to get recounts only in Gore-friendly territory was rejected.

  119. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 12:28 pm

    Remember the Brooks Brothers Riot over the recount?

  120. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 12:45 pm

    Oh, yes, 12:28. Here it is, for the younguns:

  121. 713
    February 19, 2012 at 1:37 pm

    That’s right TRA, and from mitchs link, he would have lost anyways:

    According to a massive months-long study commissioned by eight news organizations in 2001, George W. Bush probably still would have won even if the U.S. Supreme Court had allowed a limited statewide recount to go forward as ordered by Florida’s highest court.

    Bush also probably would have won had the state conducted the limited recount of only four heavily Democratic counties that Al Gore asked for, the study found.

    On the other hand, the study also found that Gore probably would have won, by a range of 42 to 171 votes out of 6 million cast, had there been a broad recount of all disputed ballots statewide. However, Gore never asked for such a recount. The Florida Supreme Court ordered only a recount of so-called “undervotes,” about 62,000 ballots where voting machines didn’t detect any vote for a presidential candidate.

    So Mitch, the scenario the media played out was never going to happen. Also, how can you discount the fact that they were missing 2200 votes and consider that the “best efforts”?

  122. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Take a look at the western sky RIGHT NOW. 1:45pm Humboldt Standard Time. What did the sky look like this morning? What did the sky look like at noon? What does the sky look like right now? How many planes have flown north to south and vice versa during this time?

    Hints: at least five planes the last hour alone, four south to north, one north to south. All the same distance out, all the “clouds” in the sky are their dissipating “contrails”.

    Kinda warm and dry for this time of year around here, isn’t it? How much time do YOU spend looking down at a computer screen compared to looking up at the world around YOU?

  123. High Finance
    February 19, 2012 at 1:52 pm

    Mitch & some others remind me of little kids who cannot stand losing and must always make excuses for it and then bitch about it for years.

    We had the insanity of people looking at indented ballots and deciding how voters INTENDED to vote !!
    That should be enough to scare anybody.

    Gore’s lawsuit was an embarrassment for the entire country. Thank God that moron never became President.

  124. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 2:05 pm


    Best effort is best effort. If you’re missing 2,200 ballots, you can’t count them. As shown in the excerpt you’ve quoted,

    On the other hand, the study also found that Gore probably would have won, by a range of 42 to 171 votes out of 6 million cast, had there been a broad recount of all disputed ballots statewide. However, Gore never asked for such a recount.

    The state’s Governor was Dubya’s brother. If 2,200 ballots were missing, you can blame him.

    Did you by any chance glance at the Rachel Maddow clip above, at 12:45? It shows the difference between the Republican Party and the Democratic Party quite well, I think, and makes me wonder what the point is of being a Democrat — even though I think I’m a registered Democrat.

    In any event, Obama has been at least as good to the banks as Dubya, so he’ll probably get another term.

  125. Mitch
    February 19, 2012 at 2:07 pm

    Anonymous 1:49,

    You’re nuts.

    Hi Fi 1:52,

    You’re worse.

  126. tra
    February 19, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    “…deciding how voters INTENDED to vote !!”

    Well, “voter intent” is always supposed to be the standard. The question is whether or not that intent can reliably be determined from the ballot in question.

    Those punch-card ballots in Florida in 2000 were an electoral disaster waiting to happen, because sometimes they left “hanging chads” and “swinging chads” and indentations and so on. But, even with such an imperfect voting machine, they could have and should have recounted the ballots, as long as everyone was using the same standard (for example, either all “hanging chads” are counted as a vote, or none of them are). Unfortunately, in Florida, they had (at least) two problems: An unreliable balloting system, and a lack of clear standards for determining “voter intent.”

    I believe the way it works in most recalls is that when ballots are recounted by hand, both campaigns have the opportunity to examine and to challenge any ballots that they feel are being miscounted. Those disputed ballots are held aside and then ruled on by a judge, and then…that’s the end of it. At least that’s the way it ought to work.

  127. 713
    February 19, 2012 at 2:29 pm

    I screwed up that italycs thing

    Does that fix it?

  128. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 2:51 pm

    Mitch, 100% of our coastal “cloudcover” right this very second is 100% manufactured. I watched it happen with my own two eyes…again. Did you? Have you ever? Several more miles beyond a natural front is moving in.

  129. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 2:56 pm

    …and meanwhile, “romney bla bla bla constitutional bla bla bla obama bla bla republicans are bla bla democrats are bla bla…”

    …and meanwhile “our” government right here in humboldt has pissed on the heads of every generation before them by rezoning “our” land to make bigger buildings and bigger roads and more of the same everywhere.

    No difference between spending all day playing video games or ‘blogging”. When you’re face down plugged into an electronic screen, that’s the only place in the world you are. Have a nice week, chumps!

  130. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 3:47 pm

    I’m not a conservative by HiFi is right about the Gore lawsuit. It’s quite obvious that Gore’s bullying of the hotel masseuse verged on attempted rape. She didn’t make up the evidence. It’s also obvious that he was used to getting his way with “the help.”

  131. Anonymous
    February 19, 2012 at 5:36 pm

    Hey, H. Pull the plug already. Can’t stand any more the the male blather. Hey guys, call talk radio and do your venting there.

    BTW, what do you make of that birth control hearing in Congress? Can’t stay focused on it because of your obsession with being right about who won, Bush or Gore. All of you, get on with living and dealing with NOW.

  132. February 19, 2012 at 5:47 pm

    to Throw out Planned Parenthod is throwing the baby out with the

    washwater- google margaret sanger

    And google Congrssman Isse,,Interesting

  133. Not A Native
    February 19, 2012 at 6:29 pm

    hope that fixes the italics

  134. Not A Native
    February 19, 2012 at 6:30 pm


  135. February 19, 2012 at 7:00 pm

    Thanks for the link, Mitch. Not that I’d forgotten how awful the Republicans were after the 2000 election.

  136. RothbardRevolution
    February 19, 2012 at 7:27 pm

    Silver and Gold, F–kers!

  137. High Finance
    February 19, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    Mitch, you’re the one obsessing about an election held almost TWELVE YEARS AGO, spouting every partisan cliche’ and YOU call me nuts ???????

    Get a life dude.

  138. February 19, 2012 at 10:49 pm

    Yeah Mitch, installing Bush as President was like, so yesterday.

  139. Gregor Mendel
    February 19, 2012 at 11:27 pm

    Thing is, if GWBush had been a good president, nobody would be bitchin about it still. That he was one of the worst ever, kinda don’t set well.

    And, how about we blame him for contraception and GMO’s!! He deserves our scorn, even when not deserved.

  140. noname
    February 20, 2012 at 5:56 am

    I though this here post was to be about chicks???? You guys just had to turn it around. Little boys with their little………………

  141. February 20, 2012 at 9:31 am

    Why are you folks still even discussing the bush gore issue?

    We all know the Bush family are top eugenicists and satanists as well, and have a strong empire based within the skull and bones secret society out of yale.

    Gore and his just as corrupt father are lifetime politicians with large portions of ownership with Occidental Petroluem, bigtime friends with Agenda 21 pusher Maurice Strong, get it yet?

    It is so interesting to know how the world works and then come back here occassionally to see some of you debate the little left right narrative they keep in place for the sheep. It’s really like looking at the world via a birds eye view, considering what you folks chatter about.

    Folks, they’ve setup the entire political structure based off the big businesses – pepsi vs coke, etc, take your pick from the less worse of the two sides, both are killing you, and it’s a good analogy as 4/5 ingredients in coke and pepsi are EXTREMELY bad for your health.

    Mitch’s link and information is gold. I am not trying to support or promote Mitch as I don’t think he needs my support or wants my affiliation, but his work is stellar and stands alone.

    Gosh, they are pushing the left right paradigm so hard right now, when good things like this are happening:


  142. Jah Mon
    February 20, 2012 at 11:55 am

    “the Bush family are top eugenicists and satanists”?
    You’re hitting the “sacraments” a little early aren’t you, David?

  143. Carbonated
    February 21, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    “4/5 ingredients in coke and pepsi are EXTREMELY bad for your health”

    David Haynie is blowing hot air out of his over-herbed brain, since well over 80% of Coke® and Pesi® is water.

    But back to the subject at hand…

  144. RefFan
    February 22, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Isn’t Gore the one who invented the internet?? Just think where we’d be if he became President all those eons ago. Gosh, I think we cld have solved our global warming issues by now!!!!

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