Home > Lawsuits, Redwood trees, Richardson Grove > Federal judge to visit Richardson Grove project site

Federal judge to visit Richardson Grove project site

A federal judge will double check Cal-Trans tree measurements in Richardson Grove before a decision is made in the case against a Highway 101 realignment filed by environmental groups and concerned residents. From the Times-Standard:

According to the order, the plaintiffs can select five trees — which have been identified by the [UC Berkeley] professor in the previous testimony as old growth — for measurement.

Plaintiffs have until Monday to select the trees, and the findings are to be submitted by noon on March 19, according to the order.

More.

  1. skippy
    February 25, 2012 at 12:38 am

    This will be interesting to find out: the Times-Standard article says the judge is to

    determine the diameter of a redwood tree alleged by Caltrans to be 84 inches and alleged by a UC Berkeley forestry professor to be 103 inches and whether old growth redwood trees were omitted from Caltrans maps and its analysis, which the professor alleges in his court declaration. Additionally, if the trees were omitted… to determine the diameter of the omitted trees.

    Double checking the measurement and the inclusion or omission of the old growth redwoods in question may factually say a lot about the veracity of one side or the other’s position.

    I wonder how it will turn out.

  2. February 25, 2012 at 12:42 am

    Leave the trees alone and keep the road like it is. If bigger trucks need to be here they can go up I-5 and come over on 299. Who cares if it costs more. I don’t want to see another old growth tree cut down in the Pacific Northwest. There are less then 3% of the trees left. We have destroyed over 97% of the ancient trees. Old Growth Redwoods are an important part of California’s natural heritage. If going around on I-5 is cost prohibitive then barge it up and down the ocean like Humboldt Petroleum and Renner do with fuel. Enough old growth has already been destroyed.

    The presence of Northern Spotted Owls in Richardson Grove should make it illegal for the highway project anyway since they are a protected species.

  3. Ponder z
    February 25, 2012 at 5:58 am

    RM, the truth is, NO trees are to be cut down. Another FACT, pavement will be extended inches on each side of the road. Yes inches, not yards as these assclowns would like you to believe. You will see no difference when CT is done.

    The issue is that these alleged old growth tress will have some roots covered a little more by the new inches of tarmac. Some root grinding will be done at the road edge. Read the plan, dont be a dupe. These trees have been here for eighty years with tarmac on the roots and they still live. All the hype is lies.

  4. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 7:12 am

    Rich Morris, are you really that clueless? First you complain about trucks burning diesel, then you say to take the longer way around. Also you are quite wrong about your fuel. It’s trucked in as well. Not surprising you, as well of most of Humboldt County, is clueless and stupid about trucking or transportion. Enjoy your bunker oil fumes.

  5. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 7:13 am

    Oh yes. 299 is a not a STAA route. We wouldn’t be talking about this if it was.

  6. SmokeMonster
    February 25, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Tofu,please enlighten us on how much gas is trucked in,for as far as I see it is constantly brought in by the docks behind the mall,if any is brought up to Eureka by trucks im sure it’s under 5%

  7. G Gilbert Yule
    February 25, 2012 at 7:53 am

    Measuring the diameters of trees is not so simple a matter as it is being made out in the TS article. I’ve spent a lifetime doing it. I’m pretty sure the judge is not qualified to make such a determination which begs the question who will be doing the actual measuring on his behalf and what is their background? And anyone foolish enough to think a tree’s diameter equates in any way to whether it’s “old growth” or not should be immediately disqualified.

  8. Ringsaw
    February 25, 2012 at 8:21 am

    I thought you had to count the rings to determine age. Theoretically, won’t most of the trees become “old” outside of our perspective anyway?

  9. February 25, 2012 at 8:25 am

    They are my trees too. Leave them alone. Fix the train tracks instead. We do not need to widen the rode for a few trucks to fit. I refuse to give my trees to Target, WalMart, Costco and the grass-fed beef ranchers,
    who started this whole debacle. Call me whatever you want. That will not change the fact that these trees have been my trees long before your ass was born.

  10. Mitch
    February 25, 2012 at 8:53 am

    Judges need to base their opinions on facts when facts are available. When two parties assert facts that differ from one another, and the facts can be determined by a judge, it is wise for the judge to determine them for herself.

    I’m curious why G Gilbert Yule thinks measuring the diameter of a tree is beyond a judge’s capabilities. I’d imagine it consists of going to a specific height above ground level (determined at a specific distance from the tree) and wrapping a tape measure around the trunk.

    This is what is so lovable about science — if you tell people your methods and your results, they will be able to duplicate your work. If you lie, or if you did not correctly describe your procedures, no one will be able to duplicate your work. This is also why so many people in politics dislike science — it exposes liars.

    As Skippy says, it will be interesting to see what the judge comes up with for the diameter of the trees.

  11. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 8:57 am

    …and the degree of sanctity within one of the last remaining habitats of its kind in the entire world falls unto the decision of a lone judge.

  12. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 9:25 am

    It isn’t being brought up, it is being brought over.

    Also note, I said fuel. Not gas, but fuel. That includes everything from gas, to diesel to Jet A1 to heating and kero. Call up the local fuel transporters and see where it all comes from.

  13. Bolithio
    February 25, 2012 at 9:28 am

    It is incorrect that no trees are going to be cut.

    The correct statement is, No old growth trees are going to be cut.

    Epic has been very effective of confusing the public as to exactly what is proposed, and the potential harm to the park.

    When they put flyers out that state, Save the last old growth and the Park, one would think they are going to cut old growth trees down. But their not. EPIC is full of shit, as usual. Good thing the tax payers are going to “award” them millions of dollars so they can continue there useless causes.

  14. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 9:37 am

    Bolithio, who does PR on the internet for logging companies, writes: “Epic has been very effective of confusing the public as to exactly what is proposed, and the potential harm to the park.”

    One would think somebody who claims as much genuine care and concern for the forest would instead point out how Caltrans and the department of transportation have confused the public as to the effects and intentions of this obviously misnomered “improvement project”. Instead, Bolithio repeatedly champions the industrial side of such stories. All the while demonstrating that he’s an active “epic basher” as well.

    In this case, there is no counter-project. There is no “spin” as to why the road should remain as-is, simply that it remains as-is. Caltrans and the department of transportation have no legitimate reason to make the freeway bigger through one of the last remaining old growth groves on the planet, especially in the wake of such protest.

  15. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Any predictions on how The Fed and its interstate money machine…er…evergrowing freeway is going to call this one? Sad days ahead. If only the forests were growing as fast as capital infrastructure.

  16. Heavy load
    February 25, 2012 at 10:13 am

    The legislation in Congress to increase truck weights from 80,000 to 97,000 pounds is on hold, but in time it most likely will happen. What effect will the increased weight have on the root systems of trees, on our surface roads and our bridges?

    Heavier weights change the whole game. CalTrans should have to recalculate potential damage using the increased weights.

  17. Bolithio
    February 25, 2012 at 10:18 am

    Anonymous at 9:37, you are blinded by your own ignorance and naivety.

    I do not support this project, and never have.

    I also dont support the current EPIC group, and will continue to point out their lies as long as they continue to mislead the public in their never ending quest to profit from litigation. Every single flier by EPIC I have seen has contained blatant mis-information. Pictures of old growth trees, and slogans that imply the Park itself is going to be destroyed.

    Read the high way re-alignment plans for yourselves and note that the largest tree to be felled is a 24″ tanoak. EPIC continues to lie about the nature of this project and collect checks from the mislead public. No old growth trees are going to be effected by this.

    The need of the road is certainly worth questioning, but not because of the trees – which clearly are not at risk.

  18. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Bolithio, again, you do not address the very issues you claim to address that are being pumped into the media by caltrans and the department of transportation, beginning with the patently false “improvement” title of this freeway construction plan. You, in all fact, work for the timber industry. I have read the plans for this freeway construction project in detail. The bottom line is the bottom line.

    You are among those who make it your mission to associate EPIC with just about every cause worth fighting for Humboldt and surrounding areas. You have and continue to write your own track record. You hit up blogs with your sponsered PR. You are a bold faced liar.

    I have ZERO association with EPIC or any “environmental” group. I am among most who recognize this “improvement” project to be beyond unecessary. It is a smack in the face of all things preservatory to this planet earth. The gall of Caltrans and the federal government to not only write off such protest, but alot such funding.

    The health of the environment is not the concern. There is no “improvement”, only more freeway, faster traffic and a little less old growth grove, as usual. Your declarations of insignificance speak for you. Not with a bang, but a whimper.

  19. Heavy load
    February 25, 2012 at 10:55 am

    “The need of the road is certainly worth questioning, but not because of the trees – which clearly are not at risk.”

    If/when weight limits are increased, all the roadside trees in the park may be at risk. The more heavy trucks there are, the greater the risks will be.

    Bothio is correct about the need for opening 101 to STAA trucks. CalTrans has not made a good case for the need.

  20. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 11:02 am

    44 out of 50 states already have higher weight limits than 80,000. But you all know that right?

  21. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 11:08 am

    So go live in one that can hold a candle up to what Humboldt offers by way of natural forestry, tofu jesus.

  22. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 11:14 am

    Like Oregon, Washington, Idaho, Colorado….. etc etc

    Humboldt County isn’t all that. From the sounds of it this has more to do with NIMBY than real truth and facts.

  23. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 11:16 am

    And didn’t Rich Morris say that 97% of the trees have been cut down? That means there isn’t much “natural forestry” IN Humboldt County.

  24. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 11:30 am

    Good call, tofu troll, please move to washington or oregon or idaho or colorado or etc. etc. etc….some of us want to protect what’s left around here!

  25. A tax payer
    February 25, 2012 at 11:48 am

    I don’t mind paying taxes if the money is wisely used. CalTrans needs work to keep their employees paychecks flowing and use up the available government money. They will concoct any scheme they can think of to keep paving the state and have very little knowledge of the natural world nor do they care. This is a State Park. It should be hands off for this reason alone. Aside from that an old growth forest is made up of many different species of trees and other plants that keep the forest working and alive. Tofu jesus should eat strychnine instead of tofu-this would rid the world of one more imbecile.

  26. Heavy load
    February 25, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    tofu says: “44 out of 50 states already have higher weight limits than 80,000. ”

    The U.S. Dept. of Transportation says this:
    “National weight standards apply to commercial vehicle operations on the Interstate Highway System, an approximately 40,000-mile system of limited access, divided highways that spans the nation. Off the Interstate Highway System, states may set their own commercial vehicle weight standards.” The weight limit is 80,000 pounds.

    Highway 101 is part of the Interstate Highway System. Didn’t you know, tofu?

    Last thing this blog needs is another ignorant troll. Seeing as how you like big heavy trucks, why not move to a state that allows them on their highways. 44 states to choose from. How about Oklahoma? Alabama?

  27. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 12:07 pm

    “This is a State Park. It should be hands off for this reason alone.”

    It should be, and in fact, it is. It’s the law, but what does CalTrans care about laws?

  28. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    There will never be agreement on these issues on this blog. For a scientific experiment to succeed, the variables must be controlled. For a discussion to succeed, the participants must agree on definitions before proceeding. For example, old growth trees are not the same as the general term trees. So first, define your terms.

  29. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 12:13 pm

    Heavy Load is not correct.

    I’m sorry but you aren’t even close. Oregon allows 105,500 already. Please correct your gross mistakes and try again.

  30. tofu jesus sucks
    February 25, 2012 at 12:29 pm

    This is only allowed in a few special cases and with special permits such as a triple load.

  31. Heavy load
    February 25, 2012 at 12:33 pm

    tofu, only with a special permit can a truck weight exceed 80,000. As I said before, the legal weight limit on Oregon state highways is 80,000. Same in Washington, Idaho and Colorado.

    The highway we are discussing is 101, not state roads in Oregon. I guess you can’t make a convincing argument for your position on the RG project, so you go off topic. Typical tactic for trolls with little knowledge and big heads.

  32. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 12:43 pm

    Sad Heavy Load (of shit) You aren’t right AGAIN. CAN YOU AT LEAST TRY? RG will get punched through, and so will 299.

  33. tofu jesus SUCKS
    February 25, 2012 at 1:11 pm

    Sorry tofu jesus 12:43 you lose. Look it up.

  34. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 1:19 pm

    “So first, define your terms.”

    They’ve been defined. Pay attention. It’s what’s refered to as a “grove”.

  35. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 1:44 pm

    It’s sad that you people have no clue. PNW Heavyhauls go everywhere. Interstates, highways, byways, your mother’s cottages. No special permit, just the standard heavyhaul one. I think the problem is you people don’t know what a single special use permit is, and a annual one. There is a reason trucks have a permit BOOK.

    But you people know all the permits people carry right? What’s that, you don’t know? You think you know? Thank goodness you aren’t in charge! True or false, you can not buy fuel for a truck in Oregon without a permit beoynd your IFTA permit? True or false, you have to have a permit to haul tires for recycling? True or false, you can gross over 80,000 on 101.

  36. Not A Native
    February 25, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    FWIW, US Hwy 101 is not part of the Interstate Highway System.

    All interstate highways are named with the letter “I”. The nearest interstates to HumCo are I5 and I80.

    I don’t know about waivers, but trucks on some State roads near ports can be permitted for 95,000 lb.

  37. February 25, 2012 at 2:42 pm

    From the Times-Standard article: “According to Friday’s order, Vadas will determine the diameter of a redwood tree alleged by Caltrans to be 84 inches and alleged by UC Berkeley forestry professor Joe McBride to be 103 inches and look at whether old growth redwood trees were omitted from Caltrans maps and its analysis, which McBride alleges in his court declaration filed by the plaintiffs. Additionally, if the trees were omitted, Vadas is being asked to determine the diameter of the omitted trees.”

    Omitted trees huh? But I thought Caltrans was going to take every measure possible to mitigate impacts to the Richardson Grove State Park Redwoods?

    Like using science, technology and stuff…

    If Caltrans failed in their surveys to measure the trees correctly and even skipped measuring and identifying trees, then how can the public be assured that this project will have “minimal impacts to the Richardson Grove State Park Old Growth Redwoods? What was Caltrans trying to hide?

    Or is Caltrans just plain sloppy in their surveys?

    Think about that the next time you drive over a highway bridge or overpass…

  38. Bolithio
    February 25, 2012 at 4:13 pm

    Vadas will determine the diameter of a redwood tree alleged by Caltrans to be 84 inches and alleged by UC Berkeley forestry professor Joe McBride to be 103 inches

    I wonder what the issue really is here. Its no surprise that there is error when taping a tree of that size for diameter. Seriously, try it. DBH stands for ‘diameter at breast height’. This is meant to be a coarse measurement, and with old growth redwood, there is generally so much taper in the butt of the tree that calling exactly where “breast height” is can lead to further error.

    But regardless of the size of near-by trees, what does that have to do with anything? The last time I read the caltrans plans the largest tree to be harvested was a tanoak at 24″ and I think the largest redwood was 18″ or less.

    If indeed they intended to cut down a 84″ or greater tree, and did not disclose this in their plans, than I find myself agreeing with Jeff.

  39. February 25, 2012 at 4:33 pm

    tofu Jesus who doesn’t have the guts to post their real name because he doesn’t want his friends (if he has any) and neighbors. I’m not clueless but you sure are. Here’s the facts. Look it up if you know how to use a search engine. Costco and Patriot, Blue Lake Casino all truck their gas in. Everyone else which accounts for 95% of the fuel brought up here arrives by barge at the docks behind the Bayshore mall and it has for over 50 years. That’s the fuel used by Humboldt Petroleum (Shell and Performance Fuels), Big Oil and Tire (Exxon, Circle K, Union 76) Renner, Redwood Oil (Chevron, Redwood Market) which together accounts for 95% of the fuel brought to the North Coast. It’s then trucked to their station here, Fortuna and up to Crescent City. I worked for Humboldt Petroleum and Big Oil and Tire for years as a store manager and know first hand how the fuel gets here.

    If you are to stupid and clueless to check your facts before calling someone out using a Anonymous handle. I did say 97% of the old growth Redwoods have been cut down. I got that from reading the plan from beginning to end that Ponder Z is the one duped. Feel free to read the plan yourself if you have a Acrobat Reader. Look things up and check your facts before you speak in your obviously clueless manner. For the record I did not complain or for that matter say anything about trucks burning diesel. Diesel gives better gas mileage and everywhere else in the Country except here Diesel is cheaper then regular to buy.

  40. Anonymous
    February 25, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    “But regardless of the size of near-by trees, what does that have to do with anything? ”

    Maybe perhaps the fact that it’s a protected ancient forest, among the last of its kind on the planet? How is it that I can’t get a permit to build a carport in town but Caltrans can chop more freeway right through the middle of a globally recognized land preserve?

  41. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 5:20 pm

    Here are the facts Rich Morris, you have missed out on many of the retailers in the area including the new ones, and by new I mean at least 5 years old.You’ve also missed out on fuel haulers that have been around for over 20 years as well. Care to update you statement or are you just flat out ignoring them?

  42. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 5:26 pm

    Also you used the statement “burn diesel like there is no tomorrow.” Care to back this up, or shall I add you to the list of stupid people who have no idea of what they are talking about.

    My guess is you are chatting out your ass at an alarming rate.

  43. SmokeMonster
    February 25, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Tofu I drive 299 and 36 enough to know that the petroleum companies are not trucking fuel or gas over in droves on either 36 or 299. You can take your trolling self down to the kohls parking lot and see all of the different branded gas trucks pull out of the docking area with all of the gas tanks all day long.

  44. SmokeMonster
    February 25, 2012 at 6:12 pm

    Rich Morris,you are no hero because you use your supposed “real” name. Simmer down tough guy.

    BTW since you are all about transparency will you tell us the name of your blog or not?
    you brought it up,others asked but you keep dodging the issue

  45. Heavy load
    February 25, 2012 at 6:24 pm

    tofu is having a temper tantrum. With any luck he’ll hold his breath till he passes out.

    I see that 101 from LA to SF is slated to be brought into the Interstate Highway System. Could be they want to make the entire 101 highway part of the System. In fact, I think I read this in some CalTrans document. The RG project is more toward this goal than it is about helping local businesses.

    Getting back to my original point, if/when weight limits are increased, and if/when 101 is approved for STAA trucks, there will be many more trucks, heavier trucks, driving through Richardson Grove, through downtown Eureka, over our bridges, etc. This should be taken into account by the CalTrans EIR.

    For that matter, many things should have been taken into account by the EIR that were ignored.

  46. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    Well then I guess you better tell that to the trucks getting their main tanks full from the railhead then.

  47. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    Are you looking for his trafficheros.com blog? Or surfplane.net? Anyway the ww.squidoo.com/trafficheroes has to be the one he is talking about. He was booger of the year 2007 for it. I mean blogger.

  48. February 25, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    Tofu Jesus you are a idiot. I used the comment about the diesel on a different story about the post office moving their operation center to Oregon a completely different subject then this one about how the post office will be spending more money not saving money. It has nothing to do with the Richardson Grove Project, idiot and no relation to this current subject.

    Quote” Here are the facts Rich Morris, you have missed out on many of the retailers in the area including the new ones, and by new I mean at least 5 years old.You’ve also missed out on fuel haulers that have been around for over 20 years as well. Care to update you statement or are you just flat out ignoring them? End Quote”

    What do retailers in the area have to do with the Richardson Grove project? Can you stay on one subject, please. So what if fuel haulers have been around for over 20 years it doesn’t change the fact that 95% of the fuel coming to the North Coast comes by Barge and always has and a few fuel haulers drive up from the bay area for Costco, Patriot and the Blue Lake Casino. That’s 4 station’s. WOW!

    Heavy load is right. Your having a temper tantrum and maybe you will hold your breath until you pass out.

    I had the Traffic Heroes blog in 2007 and won blogger of the year. That was when I owned TrafficHeroes. Rich Morris is my real name. I see no point in making a post anywhere for any reason without identifying yourself. Everyone has a opinion but unless you use your true identity your posts and comments do not matter. Just another anonymous blowhard with no real opinion.

    I will not identify the name of my blog on WordPress because I don’t want or need idiots like you posting stupid comments on my blog. It has nothing to do with anything you would understand. It’s about Social Media Marketing Social media marketing refers to the process of gaining website traffic or attention through social media sites. Social media has become a platform that is easily accessible to anyone with internet access. Increased communication for organizations fosters brand awareness and often, improved customer service. Additionally, social media serves as a relatively inexpensive platform for organizations to implement marketing campaigns. Social networking websites allow individuals to interact with one another and build relationships. When products or companies join those sites, people can interact with the product or company. That interaction feels personal to users because of their previous experiences with social networking site interactions.

    In order to participate in conversations on my blog you have to register, verify your email, opt in for newsletters, set a password and link your account to Facebook or Twitter. You have to have a Klout score above 20 the standard for influence. My Klout score hovers around 50 plus. The higher the number the better your Social Media Marketing influence.

    Your just not bright enough to understand Social Media Marketing and be able to post your real name and real picture and grow your standard for influence presence. So there is no point in identifying my blog to the people that post on Humboldt Herald. The only person I have ever seen on here that would be intelligent enough to understand the concept is Heraldo himself.

    Enough Said!

  49. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 8:27 pm

    Rich Morris, just say your blog is for spammers and scammers and we’ll move on. You don’t know a thing about saving costs, and enjoy the last years of your life in misery that you made it.

  50. February 25, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    My blog is just the opposite. It’s not for spammers and scammers which is why you wouldn’t feel comfortable on a blog you are not intelligent enough to understand! Spammers and Scammers do not sign up with their real name, real picture and real verifiable information. They use retarded names like tofu jesus to post anonymously on blogs just like any other spammer or scammers does.

    My life is anything but misery. I’m very happy and content with the way my life is going and I have no regrets. If anyone is miserable it is obviously you and I bet the other posters on here would agree 100%. You know it’s getting late and I’m sure your parents will be tucking you into bed soon. I would tell you to have a nice life but you would have to have a life in order to have a nice life. So keep having your miserable existence along with your pitiful life!

  51. tofu jesus
    February 25, 2012 at 8:58 pm

    Really? Is that the best you can come up with? My parents will tuck me in soon? I’m impress Sir Scams Alot, that you could claim to know anything, but can’t answer anything I’ve asked. Your data is old, outdated, and completely wrong. On everything. You haven’t said anything at all close to the truth.

    I can’t tell if you really believe your bullshit, or are really that stupid that you can’t figure it out.

  52. Capt. Truthiness
    February 25, 2012 at 9:15 pm

    Rich Morris…2
    Tofu Jesus… 0

    Where’s David Haynie when we need him?

  53. A tax payer
    February 25, 2012 at 10:24 pm

    Where did this nutcase tofu jesus come from. Make it go away!!!!!

  54. February 25, 2012 at 10:25 pm

    tofu jesus, I’ve answered everything you asked your just to stupid to understand reality. My data is not old, outdated and wrong. Do a search on Google for Fuel barged to Eureka, CA and you will see how wrong you are. There is a old saying that applies well to you by Mark Twain. ” “Never argue with a fool; onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.”

  55. Paul Bunyon
    February 25, 2012 at 10:41 pm

    Ok, what is ‘old growth’ redwood? It isn’t based on diameter at breast height, although there may be a correlation. And, actually, it isn’t based on age. So, what is it?

    To have a judge go out and measure a tree to determine if it is ‘old growth’ is just crazy.

  56. Verbena
    February 26, 2012 at 12:10 am

    What is a State Park? Something to be protected in perpetuity. Not harmed because any of you want more trucks, a four lane highway, easier military access, or anything else. PROTECTED.

    And I read some of the above comments, but when people start getting into ridiculous ego-blogger-arguments, there’s no point in reading on. Just to be clear, EPIC, CATS,and CBD and the other plaintiffs in the lawsuit are stating what is known by anyone who knows redwoods- if you cut the roots, you seriously harm the trees. The Plaintiffs, however, are not claiming that CalTrans will cut any ancient redwoods. BUT I AM.

    You measure the road where old trees sit (where they have for over a thousand years) across from each other, and show me where the road can be widened. (You won’t be able to). Then, just to be careful, just to test reality and see if there is someway to transcend physics… check out the CalTrans maps. You will not find the information you are looking for. You will not be given an explanation as to how the highway will be expanded in the places where the huge trees are next to and across the road from each other- without cutting the trees. The maps are illegible, don’t make sense, are DISHONEST.

    Those trees and the future of this area is not for short-sighted, arrogant, and misinformed people to decide. Let’s hope the wisdom of the ancients prevails.

  57. 713
    February 26, 2012 at 6:59 am

    How come the trees right next to the road are not dead?

  58. Mitch
    February 26, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Plantar Wart says: “To have a judge go out and measure a tree to determine if it is ‘old growth’ is just crazy.”

    What’s crazy is two attorneys asserting different tree diameters. Good for the judge. If one side is simply lying as to the facts of the case, I hope the side that is lying is disqualified.

  59. Bolithio
    February 26, 2012 at 9:52 am

    Verbena, no old growth trees are proposed to be cut. If you really think that there is some conspiracy to cut down old growth trees just for spite or something you really out of touch with reality.

    The need of this road project may be questionable. But there is no question if harm will come to the park. It wont.

    People say this: …it’s a protected ancient forest, among the last of its kind on the planet?

    Has this anonymous person ever been to RG? This one of kind ancient forest, with a freeway going through it, power-lines, 50 buildings, hundreds of campsites with paved roads and out houses, not to mention the thousands and thousands of tourists who tromp through it every year. Ya, its that ‘globally recognized’ last ancient forest ecosystem isnt it? LMFAO!!!

    If there is such a threat to nearby old growth trees, how come NONE of the trees in the straight part which the road paved right up the edge of the trees effected? Or along any on the miles of paved roads in the park that have been there for 50+ years? Shouldn’t all the trees be dead along the HWY if there is such a serious impact from roads near redwoods?

    Or maybe that is why the HSU professor corrected EPIC in saying that he didn’t think there would be harm to the trees?

  60. Anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Bolithio, you’re a real asset to the preservation of our natural open spaces.

    /sarcasm

  61. Paul Bunyon
    February 26, 2012 at 10:13 am

    We’ll see if facts are facts, as both measurements could be legitimate. Measuring one tree to see which side is ‘lying’ is just silly. Hopefully, someone posts video of the event, should be fun to watch.

    Really, CalTrans should be looking to move the highway out of the park altogether.

  62. Anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 10:18 am

    “Really, CalTrans should be looking to move the highway out of the park altogether.”

    NO SHIT! Bout time somebody said it!

    The absolute lowest level of freeway construction, being a few feet below the finished surface, should be base level for measurement. The trees are too big, they lose.

  63. anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 11:01 am

    This like saying a tree is OK to be cut because it is smaller and younger, so less important than a 2,500 year old redwood. It takes all sizes and many species to make a whole and complete forest. When you do don’t have smaller trees and other growth protecting the larger trees as a buffer the whole place is at risk. If CalTrans had been around Richardson Grove when the biggest trees were just getting a start they would have cut them too and we would have no Grove now thousands of years later.

  64. anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 11:07 am

    There is nothing wrong with the road now. It is just a few greedy people and company’s idea to mess with this special place. Cal Trans is just a big government bully that is self perpetuated by constantly sucking up the tax payers dollar. This is a State Park-hands off.

  65. High Finance
    February 26, 2012 at 11:19 am

    Yes 11.01am a tree that is smaller and younger is “so less important than a 2,500 year old redwood”.

    Cutting down a few trees is so less important than improving the safety of the road and the commerce of the North Coast.

    You have lost all perspective of what is important in life. Non Old Growth trees are just plants and are not meant to be worshipped.

  66. Bolithio
    February 26, 2012 at 11:24 am

    This is a State Park-hands off.

    Yeh hands off. Unless you want to park your RV there for a few weeks, or stay in one of the numerous buildings, crap in one of the numerous bathrooms, drive on the paved roads, or camp at one of the 150 camps sites! Hands off that sensitive environment for sure!!

  67. anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 11:27 am

    That High Finance is one brilliant dude, really connected to the earth he lives on… Go to some crappy store High Finance and buy some cheap imported toys with lead paint and suck on them.

  68. Anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 11:32 am

    Bolithio, how many acres have you assigned to be clearcut in Humboldt so far?

  69. anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 11:43 am

    Who is Bolithio? Is he a logger?

  70. Anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 11:45 am

    Bolithio is a self-described “forester” who, in his words, “prescribes” logging to acreage. He’s a shill for simpson timber…er…green diamond resources, and has a 5+ year history of related PR on the web.

  71. High Finance
    February 26, 2012 at 12:58 pm

    I see the children aren’t in school today and posting here instead.

  72. SmokeMonster
    February 26, 2012 at 1:05 pm

    Rich Morris,you contradict yourself often.
    1.you won’t name your blog because you don’t want us ignorant anonymous’ posting on your blog,then you say you have to register and use real name and pic.wouldn’t that keep the anons out?

    2. You state that only person on this board intelligent enough to comment on your blog is heraldo “himself”. HERALDO IS AN ALIAS BRAINIAC and we don’t know it’s sex(nor do I care to)

    3. People have to use their real pic to register for your blog but you don’t for this one.

    Way to talk down on all posters if this board except for Heraldo,congrats

  73. Anonymous
    February 26, 2012 at 5:17 pm

    And we wonder why our country is going broke…what a joke..cut the dam thiings down and get on with life…

  74. Verbena
    February 26, 2012 at 9:48 pm

    Anyone else noticed all of the spike-top dying trees on the side of Highway 101?

    Short-sightedness will continue to destroy life on this planet, unless we put our foot down. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!

  75. SmokeMonster
    February 26, 2012 at 10:38 pm

    Verbena are you really implying that no other redwoods are dieing like the ones we see on the side of the highway mainly between redcrest and Stafford? those are the ones you see while you sit in a gas using vehicle driving by them correct? Have you hiked out into the forest away from the highway,I have and I’ve seen the same thing.
    Its called a life cycle,they don’t live forever.

    How many of your sohum buddies drive monster truck sized diesel’s that they truly don’t need? Have you said anything to them?
    Have you spent a day on the side of the matole road and seen all of the trucks fly by spewing their black smoke out while they drive like bats out of hell?
    Are you a scientist with a college degree? Or a sensationalist?
    Why is there so much litter between garb and redway that people NAIL signs into trees asking people to stop littering? Those are the earth friendly so hum type aren’t they?

  76. Anonymous
    February 27, 2012 at 10:47 am

    Verbena is right about the spike top trees. I asked a ranger and a lifelong resident of The Weott area why this was happening and was told it is because the roots can’t get water because of the asphalt. This is especially apparent where there are four lanes.

  77. February 27, 2012 at 1:42 pm

    Another opinion is that when the freeway was put through that area south of Stafford they let the light in by removing the trees to the south for the freeway. That allowed underbrush to grow in about the roots of the trees. The new fast growth underbrush used all of the available water and soil nutrients. If the brush had been kept clear the trees would have remained healthy.

    Redwoods tops nomally die off in drought years and spike back in wet years. Some of those trees were old and spike topped before the freeway. In the early days, it was normal for fires to clean out old or weak trees and keep the underbrush from choking the redwoods out. Nowadays we stop the fires that are so important to redwood survival. The biggest danger to redwood is loving them to death. They need fire.

    Ernie Branscomb
    66 yr old 5th gen redwood forest dweller

  78. February 27, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    More:
    Letting light in and encoraging underbrush growth is not the case in Richardson Grove. They are not removing any of the shading trees.

    Sadly, they are doing nothing to maintain the forest at Richardson Grove. The underbrush is getting to heavy and it needs to be trimed and burned out, or let a fire go through the forest floor. If the duff gets too deep it can cause a fungus that can damage the roots and kill a redwood, a similar process can be seen at Stafford.

    What will very likly happen, they will continue to hug the redwoods, protect them from fire, and as the redwoods slowly start to die back at the tops people will scream bloody murder and blame the highway, when they simply needed to be keep clean with fire.

  79. RefFan
    February 27, 2012 at 2:01 pm

    Anon 10:47 youre an idiot if you believe that. I grew up in Weott, worked for the State Park for many years down there and the trees have been like that for a long time. Its a disease, not becuz of the lack of water.

  80. Jr
    February 27, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    The only location I have seen dead tree tops is on the east side of 101 south of the Jordan Road exit. I am sure there are other locations, but this stretch has had dead tops since the 1970s. The freeway was added in the late 60s; I wonder if these trees had dead tops when the highway was the Avenue prior to the freeway construction.

  81. tofu jesus
    February 28, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    Rich, you still haven’t truthfully answered any of my questions!

  82. solved mysteries
    February 28, 2012 at 1:07 pm

    http://www.topix.com/member/profile/richmorris

    ok now we can move on…….

  83. February 28, 2012 at 1:12 pm

    I recently visited Redwood National Park (the old road to Crescent City) and was surprised to see the change in the forest since the days when it was the main highway. I can not really communicate what changed, it actually seemed like it was a change in “types” of underbrush. The redwood branches, seemed “fluffier”, the light coming through the forest was “different”, more “diffuse”. I do not know if it is from a change in maintenance, maybe recovery after the big New Years storm a few years ago or what but it was quite striking. It “felt” like the forest was healing.

  84. February 29, 2012 at 3:39 pm

    Those dead tops are everywhere…

    But they are most prevalent along The Avenue of The Giants and The Newton B. Drury Parkway. Both are old sections of old hwy 101 that were replaced with the current 4 lane highway 101. Take note that the worst examples of die off are in sections where the surface water was diverted into culverts from the newer 4 lane hwy 101. Yes, you will find OG redwoods(though it is very rare due to the fact that only 3% of them remain) here and there with dying tops on timberlands. These trees are typically wildlife trees or trees that had little timber value(such as being hollow). This is called the edge effect. Are the trees along the Avenue and the Parkway suffering from the edge effect? Not all of them. The OG with water adjacent to the culverts are doing well. The OG that had water diverted into culverts away from their root zone are not.

    Check it out for yourself…

  85. labtech
    March 2, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    I “check it out for myself” every morning. You’re dead wrong on all counts, Jeff Musgrave. You’ve invented “facts” about “die off” and “edge effect” that don’t correspond to reality or any scientific study. See Ernie’s explanations above for more. He’s actually lived here for a lifetime.

  86. Bolithio
    March 2, 2012 at 4:30 pm

    This is called the edge effect.

    Back to school Jeff.

  87. Misty
    March 3, 2012 at 8:54 pm

    Wow a place I can talk without everyone looking at my facebook page and find out who my 10 friends are. Jeff Musgrave is the most accurate with facts of most of the people blogging here.

    This measuring is only one very small part of an entire Federal and State case that will require Caltrans to go back to the drawing board and tell the truth this time. Tell the whole truth about this ill-conceived plan to cut around those huge old growth trees making 101 entirely the only place in California where one has to really slow down and actually be driving through an old growth forest. There is not other place or feeling, such as this.

    Mainly, Caltrans did not tell the truth in their Draft or Final EIR and the maps are not accurate, nor is any science being looked at without the bringing in of experts such as PhD Joe McBride who is Professor at University of California at Berkeley and a highly qualified expert. Judge William Alsup is also brilliant and no pushover ;;; he can’t be bought, in other words. This Judge does his homework, thus the reason he granted a Preliminary Injunction haulting Caltrans, until both State and Federal Cases have been presented. I was lucky enough to get to the Final Hearing at the San Francisco Federal Courthouse, and Judge Alsup is highly intelligent. I trust he will see through to the truth. I hope the Rangers and police surround the area, as Caltrans might stage a protest to try to get this stopped, as they certainly don’t want people to know they left out trees and measured them wrong to keep the truth from the public, no studies for Marbled Murrelet, no studies for Northern Spotted Owl, no care about further changing the water systems to an already suffering Eel River from being sucked south for the wine country and over logging not leaving a buffer, and the other factors (I am no expert).

    No caring about the samples found at the sight where Caltrans proposes to widen and cut the roots half way around those old growth in the way that are 1,000 years and older, I believe it is now up to 87 trees to be logged (of different varieties), no caring about Native American Artifacts found in a sampling at this proposed construction site, dating back 3,500 years (tools etc; not bones), but people lived and died there at Richardson Grove), and no caring of these treasures and artifacts that should be left untouched. Has mankind not done enough to harm the Native American Peoples? Leave their places of ancient history alone. Yes they do care, but they do it more quietly.

    There is nothing scientific about the Caltrans Richardson Grove Environmental Impact Report, as the 600 plus thousands of petitions of people who studied this issue agree. Slow down, keep the trucks this CA Legal size as we already pay at the cash register for off-loading (what is so wrong with maintaining these trucker’s jobs???), develop short sea shipping on barges as those in the know will tell you more about, and find a way around this issue, so as to preserve this treasure called Richardson Grove State Park.

    Winning means Caltrans has to draw up new plans, only they must tell the truth this time. When the public hears the truth they will develop other alternatives to all these big gas guzzling trucks on the highway.

  88. March 5, 2012 at 11:53 am

    So what’s thicker and less permeable? Asphalt or duff?

  89. March 5, 2012 at 12:59 pm

    You don’t have to be a an anonymous “lab tech” or “Bolithio, a deforester for Green Diamond(the North Coast’s worst clear-cutter, and least sustainable timber corporation with rampant timber die-off in all levels of succession) to comprehend obvious common sense.

    You cut, fill, pave or alter the water supply for the Old Growth roots.

    It affects the Old Growth trees.

    Caltrans submitted a faulty EIR. They violated Federal law. It’s in court. They’re measuring the trees right now with a Federal Judge to see if Caltrans omitted trees. Took faulty or misleading measurements of all tree diameters, not just Old Growth.

    Does that mean Caltrans lied? Most likely.

    Is Caltrans a bad agency? Not necessarily. But all levels of government are prone to cronyism, corruption and fast tracking for projects of all types.

    I don’t blame Caltrans employees because they are your neighbors and friends. They are just doing their job. A VERY dangerous job at that! Just like I wouldn’t blame timber workings for doing their job…

    The problem starts in issues such as funding, regulation and detachment from liabilities and legal obligations. Those who make the decision to break the law are higher up and have more to gain. Greed corrupts all business. Caltrans is a business under the guise of an agency.

    I’ve been waiting for this moment ever since the beginning of the campaign. Today will open the floodgates for the truth…

  90. March 7, 2012 at 8:32 am

    From KIEM News Channel 3 poll:
    http://kiem-tv.com/news

    What’s your stance on the Cal-Trans plan to widen Highway 101 through Richardson Grove?

    It can be done with minimal impact to the trees, do it already
    18%

    It would have a major negative impact, leave the trees alone and don’t do the project
    80%

    Still trying to make up my mind whether the project is a good one or a bad one
    2%
    Total votes: 333

    * Older polls

  91. Bolithio
    March 15, 2012 at 5:54 pm

    So, what happened? Turns out, nothing. No conspiracy. Just a big waste of time and money.

    http://www.times-standard.com/localnews/ci_20179069/judge-determines-one-tree-omitted-from-richardson-grove?source=rss

    Do you think people will finally realize that this in not the destruction of the park that EPIC characterized? Will EPIC continue to LIE to the public to collect checks from guilty yuppies in Marin County?

  92. March 15, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Ha Ha Bolithio! This made my day even though you have to read through Donna Tam’s bias against SRG. Lot’s happened! Mis-measurings and Old Growth omissions! Can’t wait to see the EIS, in about 3-5 years or so. You’re just going to have to wait for your big box lunch!

    Now that’s Caltrans on weed…man!

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