Home > Uncategorized > Two [Four. Six? Six.] Arrested at Courthouse After Curfew

Two [Four. Six? Six.] Arrested at Courthouse After Curfew

[Update:  A comment indicates that the number of arrests increased to six.]

[Update 2: The North Coast Journal Blog has further details and better photos.  It names Bill Thompson and Richard Gilchrist as the first two persons arrested.  Both men appear to be Korea War or early Vietnam era veterans.]

[Update 3: As of 10:30 AM, the Eureka Times-Standard web site reports on Eucalyptus trees and a talent competition.  There is no breaking news in Eureka.  Nothing happened last evening.  No protest, no vigil, no arrests.  Be happy.]

[Update 4: As of Monday morning, the Eureka Times-Standard web site reports that juveniles were cited in Eureka during Arts Alive.  Nothing, at least in the headlines, is reported as happening or having happened on Saturday night at the courthouse.  With this, the Times-Standard gives up its final breath as a potentially legitimate news operation, and must be recognized by all for what it is.  The story on the juvenile arrests can be found through this link at Google. ]

[Update 5: Tuesday morning, and the “newspaper” has put a story on its web site.  It may even have printed one in the paper copy, but not on the front page.  The story on the courthouse arrests can be found through this link at Google.]

Enforcing the emergency health and safety ordinance passed by four of the county’s supervisors (Virginia Bass, Clif Clendenen, Jimmy Smith, Ryan Sundberg), Sheriff’s deputies tonight arrested two persons sitting in lawn chairs on the grounds of the county courthouse.  The arrests happened shortly before 10 pm.  A witness said the two were older veterans who had been sitting passively prior to the arrest.

The arrests took place towards the end of a candlelight vigil at the courthouse, attended by approximately 75 – 100 persons.  The vigil, according to organizers, was being held “in defense of the First Amendment” to the United States Constitution, which ensures Americans freedom of speech and assembly.  Some in the crowd shouted “Sieg heil” at the deputies as they led off the arrested persons.

It was not  immediately clear in what way those arrested were posing a threat to the county’s health and safety.  You could ask your Supervisor.

The California Highway Patrol was present along with the Humboldt County Sheriff’s Department.

The text of the First Amendment is:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

  1. LOL moment
    April 7, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    I drove by today and saw a sign propped up by itself on the sidewalk reading “Stand up for liberty.” Or maybe it was “Stand up for democracy.” I don’t remember because all I could do was focus on the group of homeless-looking protestors sitting on the steps, too lazy to hold a sign, let alone stand.

  2. Mitch
    April 7, 2012 at 11:18 pm

    Ah, “LOL moment” must be referring to the veterans who, decades ago, took up arms to defend his or her right to be an ass.

  3. Labtech
    April 7, 2012 at 11:38 pm

    What do you want to bet that Dave M was NOT arrested?

  4. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 12:05 am

    If anybody cares about actual threats to our liberty, they might want to pay less attention to the sandbox politics at the courthouse lawn and more to the federal government’s encroachment into every aspect of what used to be our private lives.

  5. Verbena
    April 8, 2012 at 2:44 am

    Six people arrested last night during vigil. About 120 people gathered in front of courthouse/jail.

  6. Smart 5th Grader
    April 8, 2012 at 3:47 am

    A kinder-gentler Soviet Union, a kinder-gentler Tiananmen Square. At least nobody died, just Freedom and the right of the people peaceably to assemble.

  7. High Finance
    April 8, 2012 at 5:58 am

    The mentally ill people congregating at the front of the Courthouse every day are being encouraged & misled by Meserve, Mitch and their buds for some political reason.

    But for the life of me I do not understand why. Just what is it you think you are accomplishing ? You have alienated almost everybody in town except the 60 people who showed up last night.

  8. Mitch
    April 8, 2012 at 7:10 am

    I can’t speak for Dave Meserve or anyone else.

    I can say that the First Amendment is not about a popularity contest. Every true conservative should understand that.

    I can also say that the vast majority of the people at the vigil last night were regular citizens, presumably no more mentally ill than most.

    I can also say that I had no desire at all to be at the courthouse last night. I had a citizen’s obligation to be there in order to stand up for what so many people have died for.

    It’s sad that old vets are being arrested for defending liberty once again, this time from lawn chairs. Actually, it’s beyond sad. It’s breathtaking and horrifying.

  9. Ponder z
    April 8, 2012 at 7:10 am

    Our constitution has been in jeopardy for 20 years. A slow gutting death, by the liberal slim in Sacramento and DC. You all bitch about the rich corporate pigs make a slave of you, but the liberals are pushing so many absurd laws at us, they all chip away at our rights. We are a nation taking orders form the UN. The First and Second amendments must be rewritten to accommodate the world leadership of socialism, while the billionaires get richer.

  10. Mitch
    April 8, 2012 at 7:44 am

    It’s Easter Sunday.

    I’m not a Christian, but I love the Sermon on the Mount, delivered by a then-unpopular man who overturned the tables of commerce in the Jewish temple. As I understand it, one fundamental message Jesus wanted to spread was “as you do to the least of these, you do to me.”

    I’m fully aware that the political and religious authorities of that time simply could not accept the message. They tried to kill it, but the message always rises again.

    Perhaps it’s worth quoting at length from the New Testament. This is from Matthew 25.

    34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

    37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

    40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

    41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

    44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

    45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

    I don’t believe in the biblical god, devils, angels, or an afterlife, but I do believe we choose for ourselves a “heavenly” or “hellish” mental space on earth. I think Matthew 25 has great wisdom.

  11. Beneficent Muse
    April 8, 2012 at 8:21 am

    When it comes to protecting Free Speech our right-wing extremists should be linking arms with our left-wing radicals. They should march together singing as they reach their mutual Gethsemane.

    Happy Easter. What, really, would Jesus do? Probably go to jail.

  12. Richard
    April 8, 2012 at 8:44 am

    True belief in defending civil liberties (aka FREEDOM), means defending the rights of those we agree with the least.
    Be it panhandlers in Arcata CA, or Nazis marching in Skokie IL.

    When the TS editorial board takes the BoS to task, they must know they overreached (legal though it may prove to be).

    I don’t fault the Deputies that enforced the new law last night (mostly with due civility), I fault the lawmakers who created that law.

    Also, kudos to the EPD for not sweeping in and arresting those who in complying with the Sheriff Deputies request to move to the sidewalk, did NOT show up and arrest the crowd for then obstructing the sidewalk.

    While the law gets tested and rewritten etc, etc., the BoS meanwhile needs to take down the fence immediately! If they are going to impose a curfew and not allow tables, they must at least give us back OUR public space, which had historically been the primary space used by most demonstrators, from Women in Black, to Vets for Peace, to the Tea Party members (much more then the base of the stairs). If they want to leave a fence five yards back from the hedges next to the building, that would not be the same offense, we’d have 90% of the space and if that would restrict access to the bushes then there would no longer any issues left to justify fencing the rest of the lawn.

    Note to Philip, having had the lawn mowed four times since the fence went up, should tell you that the “grass has grown back”.
    If you return our traditional public space, it will likely relieve some of the “crowding” at the entrance on 5th (for those for whom using the 4th street entrance is not an acceptable option).

  13. Richard
    April 8, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Bob Doran posted photos on the NCJ Blog:
    http://www.northcoastjournal.com/blogthing/

  14. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 9:05 am

    when I click the link you provide, the webpage appears but there are no photos. Where are they?

    [After clicking on the North Coast Journal Blog link, you’ll have to scroll down on that page to get to photographs. -HH]

  15. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Again and again the occupy folks tell folks their lies and tactics are freedom of speech. Again and again we tell them that is is not so, and they do not represent us. Wake up, you are not entitled to use our name in vain. Quit abusing our name. Quit abusing our laws. If you would of stuck to the sidewalk, our money would not of been wasted on babies crying over a legal ordnance.

  16. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 9:30 am

    Some interesting comments. I totally agree with “Ponder z” !

    I’m a veteran. Didn’t enjoy all of my military service but I am proud of it. What is it really that these guys are protesting? The 1st Ammendment? BS !

    People have been protesting in front of the courthouse for years! They had signs, they yelled, they remained quiet, and at times blocked the sidewalk. But they went home after they expressed their (first ammendment) opinions.

    What does moving in, or taking over a portion of, at the front of the courthouse have to do with denying someones 1st ammendment rights?

    These are just bums, homeless persons lacking common sense, and people with nothing else to do. Real people (tax payers) have grown tired of the antics of this group of “protesters”.

    And, as was commented, Dave Merserve was not arrested! He only acts like a true believer.

  17. April 8, 2012 at 9:46 am

    Where are all of the teabaggers who “support” the 2nd amendment? The 2nd amendment clearly specifies a condition for gun ownership, but the First Amendment has no restrictions.

  18. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 10:19 am

    This is so contrived. I’m sure the arresting officers gave them every opportunity to not get arrested. So if it’s important enough for you to force the issue and get arrested, at least quit whining like it wasn’t your idea to start with.

  19. Mitch
    April 8, 2012 at 10:24 am

    Anonymous 10:19,

    You really, really don’t get it. The officers, most likely, did give the veterans an opportunity to submit to the authority of an improper law. The veterans refused, on principle.

    If it were not for the bravery and emotional strength of people like those veterans, none of us would have even the civil rights that remain in the Citizens United era of bought politics and owned governments.

  20. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 10:42 am

    Mitch, you and other occupy supporters have jumped the shark. The ordnance is proper and legal.

  21. tra
    April 8, 2012 at 11:12 am

    “Ordnance”

    I wonder if that’s a Freudian slip, a subliminal suggestion, or just a typo?

  22. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 11:15 am

    I do get it Mitch. But I have to disagree with you that it’s an improper law. Until a higher court overturns it, it’s proper.

  23. Mitch
    April 8, 2012 at 11:25 am

    “Until a higher court overturns it, it’s proper.”

    Until a higher court overturns it, it’s enforceable. Many laws are overturned by the courts because they are improper. They were improper from birth, not from the moment the court ruled.

    The Board of Supervisors could pass a law forcing you to wear a religious symbol of its choice — it would get struck down pretty quickly, but it would be enforceable until struck down. It would never have been proper.

    Notice below how the rights are primary and permanent, the government secondary and transitory. The rights are “unalienable.” The legitimacy of any government, our founders said, is dependent on its ability and willingness to “secure[…] these rights” and not be “destructive of these ends.” The Constitution’s Bill of Rights spells the rights out more explicitly, and the right in question is the ability of the people to peaceably assemble. The veterans were taking part in a peaceable assembly.

    I challenge anyone to explain how they were creating a threat to anyone’s health and safety by sitting in lawn chairs in front of a closed building, holding a flag.

    No one has a right to camp on the lawn, defecate in public, or harass someone else. But everyone has a right to peaceably assemble. The only question is whether a transitory government will challenge that permanent right with improper laws.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

  24. Percy
    April 8, 2012 at 11:37 am

    Ponder z says:
    April 8, 2012 at 7:10 am
    Our constitution has been in jeopardy for 20 years. A slow gutting death, by the liberal slim in Sacramento and DC. You all bitch about the rich corporate pigs make a slave of you, but the liberals are pushing so many absurd laws at us, they all chip away at our rights. We are a nation taking orders form the UN. The First and Second amendments must be rewritten to accommodate the world leadership of socialism, while the billionaires get richer.

    Hey Ponder, nice way to wrap up all your bullshit paranoia into one asinine comment. The “liberal slim” didn’t pass the emergency county ordinance. And I don’t remember Kofi Annan issuing us any orders. Last I read he was in Syria trying to broker a cease fire. And those pesky world socialists with their demands for universal health care and workers rights. Could be its time to take off the tin foil hat for a bit, and quit trying to channel Joe McCarthy.

  25. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 12:08 pm

    Joel you are a true “teabagger”. And you think you are so smart?!

  26. a non
    April 8, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Ah, the usual. “Conservative” right wingers who claim their foundation is the bible and the constitution can’t / won’t stand up for either. Forget about principles, these cons don’t understand the meaning of principles.

  27. What Now
    April 8, 2012 at 12:37 pm

    a non says:
    April 8, 2012 at 12:09 pm
    “Ah, the usual. “Conservative” right wingers who claim their foundation is the bible and the constitution can’t / won’t stand up for either. Forget about principles, these cons don’t understand the meaning of principles.”

    Excellent observation, a non. and worthy of repeating.

    The TEA-liban have earned their own entry in the next DSM under “cognitive dissonance”.

  28. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 12:54 pm

    Do what they do to most criminals & drug addicts in, Humboldt . Throw them in a drug or alcohol house then give them free syringes, straps and cookers . Next give them money for cigarettes ( more drugs that kill ) and have them stand outside and smoke all day while they pick their noses .Problem solved .

  29. What Now
    April 8, 2012 at 12:57 pm

    Anonymous says:
    April 8, 2012 at 12:54 pm
    “Do what they do to most criminals & drug addicts in, Humboldt . Throw them in a drug or alcohol house then give them free syringes, straps and cookers . Next give them money for cigarettes ( more drugs that kill ) and have them stand outside and smoke all day while they pick their noses .Problem solved .”

    GREAT ADVICE< Anonymous!
    That's EXACTLY what should be done with the Tali-Baptists,
    TEA-KKKlanners, and other useless reich-wingers.

  30. April 8, 2012 at 1:09 pm

    Why not simply answer my question, Anony-mouth 12:08?

  31. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 1:38 pm

    Uncle Sam pulled them right out of school, made them carry machine guns to kill or be killed, didn’t give a fuck that the experience knocked them off their rocker and now throws them in jail for peacefully standing their ground to complain about how Uncle Sam is corrupt.

  32. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 3:06 pm

    Uncle Sam forced them to leave the sidewalk where they could demonstrate 24/7, to a place where they are rightfully, and legally limited on hours?

  33. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 3:08 pm

    Hey Joel, go protest on a freeway, and see how far your “free speech” gets you.

  34. Just Watchin
    April 8, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    I can’t believe that with this many comments, not one person has blamed George Bush. You people are really letting me down.

  35. April 8, 2012 at 5:53 pm

    We were at the back– of the Courthouse–a truly peaceful

    gathering. We were there with candles to stand for the First

    Amendent. Adults mainly male ,mainly thirty or older including

    Veterans for Peace. (pretty solid citizens)Meserve had an Oped

    in the Times that sum up what so many of us feel is the

    problem we all share..

    I”may disagree with everyhing you say but I will defend to the

    death your right to say it”

  36. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    And Joel what exactly was your question?

    Like I said you are the “Teabagger” and I’m not really sure you are a supporter of the 2nd ammendment.

  37. Anonymous
    April 8, 2012 at 7:05 pm

    “Uncle Sam forced them to leave the sidewalk where they could demonstrate 24/7, to a place where they are rightfully, and legally limited on hours?”

    Once again, Uncle Sam threw them in jail for standing their ground to complain about the fact that Uncle Sam is corrupt. On government property, appropriately enough. The cause and consequence of the corruption, happening all over the world every moment, has reached a level of insanity that legalities of protest are being conjured when angry uprising occurs. It would be like a surreal science fiction movie nightmare, were it not the world into which we all wake every morning.

  38. High Finance
    April 8, 2012 at 7:56 pm

    So many kooks out posting today and on Easter.

    Strange.

  39. cream
    April 8, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    On a boat in the middle of a raging sea

    she would make a scene for it
    all to be ignored.
    And wouldn’t you be bored?
    Strange brew
    killing what’s inside of you.

    Oh, but to kill what’s inside of you, phony Hi

  40. Fact Checker
    April 9, 2012 at 5:52 am

    There´s nothing wrong with Hi Fi posting his kooky stuff on Easter. Kooky is as kooky does.

  41. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Silly people, the government owns lots of land. That does not mean you have unfettered access to it. How many bases do you have access to protest on? None? Oops, there goes that argument.

  42. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 8:13 am

    Anon 7:58,

    Oh gosh. So you’re saying the courthouse is a military installation now?

    The courts have held that the spots at which protest can least be challenged are government buildings and locations at which protests have traditionally been allowed. Sound familiar?

  43. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 8:20 am

    Since commenter 713 has thought to cite Clark v CCNV here, let’s quote an excerpt from the majority opinion in that case:

    Neither was the regulation faulted, nor could it be, on the ground that, without overnight sleeping, the plight of the homeless could not be communicated in other ways. The regulation otherwise left the demonstration intact, with its symbolic city, signs, and the presence of those who were willing to take their turns in a day-and-night vigil.

    Maybe the Board of Supervisors missed that paragraph. Or maybe they’ve been had by the County Counsel, if they weren’t interested in reading the precedent themselves. Or maybe the powers that be just wanted to pretend they had a legal ability to pull this off.

    http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0468_0288_ZO.html

  44. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 8:24 am

    It is government land, no? The courts have upheld limits on the use of land such has time or items. Do that sound familiar Mitch? IE what the the county has done is entirely legal. The county could of made the protest by permit only, and still be legally correct. Jack Duram has a good editorial on the occupy group.

  45. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 8:37 am

    Anonymous,

    There’s no point in arguing with you, as you’ve completely ignored the point I made just above, choosing instead to repeat that it’s government land. Yes, I understand it’s government land. Yes, the public is not allowed to protest on military bases. Neither of those points are relevant. If you’re interested, read the ruling I linked to. If not, don’t.

    Unless the Board of Supervisors can explain the damage caused by allowing peaceful and responsible protesters at the empty courthouse building at night, and the damage caused by allowing people to stand on the lawn that has been the traditional location of protest in the county, and the damage caused by allowing someone to hang a sign on the fence erected to keep the public away from that location, the county is going to lose in court. It’s not going to help that the Sheriff is on record as refusing to enforce nuisance ordinances at that location.

    I fully expect there will soon be a lawsuit, and it will be up to the courts to decide.

    “Jack Duram”?! LOL.

  46. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 8:57 am

    Mitch you are still bringing up that misinformation? What is the point of enforcing, when the DA will not prosecute? I expect the county to win.

  47. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Anonymous,

    The misinformation is yours. There was a very specific subset of things the DA would not prosecute, for constitutional reasons. Based on the DA’s decision to honor the Constitution, the Sheriff declared, completely without reason, that the DA had given the protesters “immunity” and that he would no longer respond to the problems at the courthouse. That immediately struck me as grounds for dismissal (or impeachment, or recall), but this is Humboldt County.

    The DA’s memo on how to handle protest arrests has been posted here and is available on the County web site.

    Meanwhile, it’s after 9 AM on Monday following the arrests of several people at a courthouse protest late Saturday night and early Sunday morning. The Times-Standard web site has nothing on those arrests, although it has printed information about juveniles being cited at Arts Alive on Saturday evening. Proof, if any were still needed, that the local “newspaper” is not a newspaper at all.

  48. jr
    April 9, 2012 at 9:58 am

    Anyone know if a lawsuit is being considered to challenge this ordinance? It would seem that until this is done we are all just spinning our wheels.

  49. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 10:03 am

    Yes, a lawsuit is being considered. It would honestly be a shame for the county to have to waste the money to defend this, but it may come to that.

  50. jr
    April 9, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Are there any alternatives to a lawsuit?

  51. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 10:39 am

    Sure.

    For starters, the Board of Supervisors could withdraw the ordinance. They could begin that process today. I don’t know how long it would take.

    Then they could (in private if need be) tell the Sheriff to do his job and enforce the existing law. That way, when people defecate in public, they could be arrested. And when mentally ill persons shout at people entering the courthouse, they could be assisted.

    Then they could take down the fence blocking people from the courthouse lawn, so that legitimate protesters don’t need to be directly in people’s paths as they enter the court house.

    An apology would be nice, too.

  52. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 10:48 am

    I can add that I think there would be a good deal of public support for an emergency allocation to the Sheriff’s department, if necessary, to pay for a Sheriff’s deputy to be present at the courthouse during demonstrations, at times when there is not already a Sheriff’s deputy located there.

    I have no idea how the board could make that happen quickly.

  53. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 10:56 am

    The stupidity of the argument spans so far beyond written legalities. The internet is breeding insanity. It is PROTEST. They (we) are arguing against the same establishment that is determining the legalities. You people sound old. REALLY. In twenty years all the little kids you see running around are going to be buried up to their necks in the same bullshit going around now but worse. You trolls out to turn it into an argument of turf are wastes of oxygen.

  54. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 10:59 am

    “You people sound old. REALLY. “

    Yeah. Some of us are. It’s frightening, but it really does change your attitudes.

  55. walt
    April 9, 2012 at 11:08 am

    Mitch, have you tried talking to Jimmy? I’ve always found him a good listener.

  56. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 11:14 am

    I like Jimmy Smith, from what I know of him. I spoke before the Board during public comments to urge it not to proceed with this, at least as an “urgency ordinance.”

    If Jimmy wants to talk, I’d be happy to talk with him. I emailed him and all Board members prior to the meeting. But the truth is, I’ve said about all I can say in the comments on this thread and the “Candlelight Vigil” thread. Also, I’m hardly the main person involved in any of this — I’m mostly an offended observer from the periphery forced into participation (by the Board’s actions, and the inaction of the Sheriff).

    I think the Board made a horrible mistake in passing an unconstitutional ordinance, and I hope it can walk it back quickly.

    I also think Occupy Eureka has been very counterproductive, and really ought to reconsider its approach.

  57. RefFan
    April 9, 2012 at 11:22 am

    Mitch is missing the point and will not listen to what the other side has to say. He is so stuck on the first amendment, he’s missing the reason behind the ordinance. The MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN and the Sups have listened.
    Now they should take down the fence and see if all protests resume in a reasonable manner, like before occupy.

  58. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 11:24 am

    RefFan,

    The MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE cannot take away anyone’s civil liberties in the United States of America.

    That’s basic civics, whether you use capital letters or not.

    And we agree that the Board should taken down the fence.

  59. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Mitch, when I say some of you people sound old, I mean ancient history, like the stuff we (I) read in history books about how stupid the people who write history books want us to believe the general population was years ago about the same corruption being protested today. Think of all the protests of the past, being argued in the manner regarding today’s EXTREMELY passive protest movement. It is insane. The situation has become worse, the epople are turning against themselves even more, ARGUING THE LEGALITIES OF PROTEST IN THE FIRST PLACE.

    It’s clinical INSANITY. The internet, “high finance” et al, is 100% fictitious BULLSHIT. It IS the brainwashing propaganda of today, wake up and smell the petroleum byproducts and toxic components your computers are made of. People living their lives one foot in internet land. SURREAL and INSANE.

  60. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 11:44 am

    Well, Anonymous, I agree that OWS has been very passive compared to many past protests.

    I don’t know what’s going to happen to America in the next few years. It’s remarkable to see how easily the population is turned against even passive protesters, once the protesters are framed as the problem. And framing the protesters as the problem is the oldest trick in the book.

    I’m pretty much convinced that the chance for peaceful change is gone, given today’s supreme court, but I do have an irrational faith that it might still happen. Maybe I just don’t want to think about the alternative. Violent revolution is not the big, ultimately successful party many young radicals seem to think it is. It’s mostly suicide, I think.

    What I think we need to see, but I don’t know how to make it happen, is the construction of a replacement economy based on virtue rather than greed. Only after that has begun to form will there be a reasonable opportunity for people to withdraw from the existing wreck of a system, and begin to reduce its power over government. (It’s a very sixties hippy, “Christian” approach, but I still think it’s the best chance we’ve got. And I mean “Christian” as in Jesus freak, not as in today’s Christianity as practiced in the mainstream.)

    Things like the Coop seem to me to be the best hope going forward, even if they lack glamour. I don’t think violent revolution generally leads to positive change — it’s an unfortunate aspect of human nature that the new bosses are “same as the old boss.”

    But now it’s past time for me to start back in my role in the old economy, pronto.

  61. What Now
    April 9, 2012 at 11:53 am

    U.S. history is rife with plenty of examples of “the majority has spoken” necessitating judicial remedy to reinstate or protect civil rights.
    Not just the ACLU, NAACP,labor unions and others of the like have had to seek protection from Jim Crow, Gestapo police and corrupt puppet governments pandering to political and religious extremists and corrupting monied interests.
    The record holders for filing and WINNING cases to seek relief in SCOTUS have been the Jehovah’s Witnesses.

  62. Anonymous
    April 9, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    “And framing the protesters as the problem is the oldest trick in the book.”

    Exactly! Exact-fucking-ly. Yet reading 99% of blog correspondence is about how they either are or aren’t. “hi finance” is FAKE. There are a few of them, their intention is to stir shit.

    I agree with what you wrote in addition. However, there is no hope at this point. We’re fucked. More power to anybody and everybody who stands up against the bullshit. The children of today are already glued to their portable electronic screens, programming themselves to be polite obedient robots, and it’s like most parents are more than happy to live vicariously thorugh their childrens’ pseudo-noble march to join the ranks of the hopeless status quo.

  63. Just Watchin
    April 9, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    Wow……do you eat with that mouth? Your mother must be soooooo proud.

  64. High Finance
    April 9, 2012 at 1:03 pm

    The more 12.09pm speaks up the more people he will turn off to whatever cause he is talking about.

  65. What Now
    April 9, 2012 at 2:27 pm

    High Finance says:
    April 9, 2012 at 1:03 pm
    “The more 12.09pm speaks up the more people he will turn off to whatever cause he is talking about.”

    The voice of experience on that exact subject.

  66. Smart 5th Grader
    April 9, 2012 at 2:45 pm

    Keep ¨speaking¨ Hi Fi, you are turning me on. ROTFLMAO !!

  67. April 9, 2012 at 3:45 pm

    B en Franklin said It–“They that can give up essential liberty
    to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safetyDated????NO

  68. Humboldt: Y UR PEEPS B SO DUM?
    April 9, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Anonymous says:

    April 9, 2012 at 11:31 am

    Mitch, when I say some of you people sound old, I mean ancient history, like the stuff we (I) read in history books…¨

    Yeah, history sucks. We ain´t got nuttin to lern frum no stoopid history books.

  69. THE MAJORITY
    April 9, 2012 at 6:33 pm

    Hey RefFan, how about this one:
    THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE HAVE SPOKEN
    And they don’t like you and your family, or the way you deface the forests, destroy our rivers and fishing industry and the leave nothing for the future of our young people.You want it ALL now, for your own selfish redneck family.

    So, THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE, have decided to do something about it. You know, they are really pissed off, and, as you have said on this blog, anger makes murder perfectly OK.

    So, the THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE will do the logical thing and kill you and your redneck family. Hey, its OK, because THE MAJORITY OF THE PEOPLE want it. Right?

  70. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 6:39 pm

    Anonymous 12:09,

    There is always hope.

    The incredible transformations of societies that take place from time to time (Egyptian, Russian, Czechoslovakian, and South African, just to take some from the past generation or two) are never predictable in advance. But they don’t happen without a huge amount of invisible preparation by large numbers of unsung, “unimportant” people.

    The preparation is necessary but not sufficient. All that can be done is to prepare the soil so that if a fertile seed happens to fall, it will have some chance to take root and blossom.

    It’s a big mistake to think that some wonderful leader is the cause of any change for the better. The wonderful leader is critical to the process, but they are a result as well as a cause. The potentially wonderful leaders are almost always present. Without the preparation of the soil by the so-called “followers,” they don’t take root.

    History refuses to take notice, because history is about “big,” and “big” change is almost always due to a large number of “small” prerequisites being satisfied.

    You might enjoy reading some of Vaclav Havel’s essays, if you are looking for inspiration. Living in Truth is a wonderful, worthwhile book.

  71. April 9, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    The Majority,

    I ask you to stop threatening people it is counterproductive.

    We do need drastic change in our system and I advocate it but it must be peaceful and democratic. We must persuade with the strength of argument.

    I understand you are trying to make a point that majority rule has its limits too, and you are correct but I fear that the extremity of your example will inflame the discussion.

    If we keep slouching towards Lebanon (to paraphrase Joan Didion) we will certainly find it.

    This is just my opinion, and I don’t want to debate it. Carry on.

    have a peaceful day,
    Bill

  72. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 6:46 pm

    Just Watchin’,

    Do you really live in Florida? Why on earth would you waste your time heckling from so far away?

  73. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 6:47 pm

    What Now,

    Exactly.

  74. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    highboldtage/Bill,

    Right on.

  75. 713
    April 9, 2012 at 6:56 pm

    Mitch, what is your take on the fennel sign? See journal.

  76. Jr
    April 9, 2012 at 7:43 pm

    That incredible transformation that Mitch noted that is occuring in this society right now has its roots in the Occupy movement. I have never seen such a movement in my lifetime that is based on restoring the principles of democracy in everyday life. I would compare this movement to that of the French revolution when “the people” rose up to overthrow a monarcy. (There is also some similarity to the movement for independence in this country, but our independence efforts were led more by the economic concerns of the upper classes.)

    Spend a few hours reading the various Occupy web sites and prepare to be moved and impressed by the commitment those in the occupy movement have to a more egalitarian society. Start with occupywallst.org then choose cities at random and read what people in those cities are doing toward this end.

    Mitch is correct when he states that a major societal transformation is upon us.

  77. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 8:26 pm

    713,

    I have no opinion about it, other than that I don’t see it as relevant to the courthouse issue.

  78. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 8:43 pm

    713,

    Apparently Heraldo has an opinion about it though. Check out the latest post on this blog.

  79. April 9, 2012 at 8:51 pm
  80. tra
    April 9, 2012 at 9:09 pm

    Clendenen voted for the “emergency” ordinance to restrict the right to Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Assembly at the courhouse, including the shameful provision that outlaws candlelight vigils. Fennell says she would have voted against it.

    Now we have Clendenan supporters championing a local ordinace in Fortuna that allows commercial advertising on billboards, bit outlaws political speech on those same billboard. Pretty ironic given that political speech is supposed to be afforded more protection than commercial speech.

  81. Mitch
    April 9, 2012 at 9:20 pm

    Thanks, Jr, for the suggestion to look at occupywallst.org. It is inspiring to see what other cities are doing.

    In Eureka, the Westside Community Improvement Association has been working hard to create a community center and park out of the Jefferson School, which was a victim of the poor support we provide to education these days. It would be great to see Occupy Eureka lend some help to the WCIA, since the new Eureka City Council has told them to go fuck off (I’m paraphrasing). I’m sure there are other potential local projects as well.

    Protest is fine, but I think we pretty much know what the problems are. What we need are people working towards solutions. Both can coexist.

  82. What Now
    April 9, 2012 at 9:55 pm

    “It would be great to see Occupy Eureka lend some help to the WCIA, …”
    Capital idea, Mitch!

    I hope we can look for posts on work days and events.
    Consider me in.

  83. 713
    April 10, 2012 at 4:34 am

    Mitch, it seems like the city is restricting her right to free speech, doesn’t it?

  84. Just Watchin
    April 10, 2012 at 6:39 am

    Mitch……yea, I’m retired and in Florida. A former 1%er. I was a frequent visitor to the Humboldt area for a while. Even attended the farmer’s market in Arcata. That answered an old question that I’d had for years……where did all of the old Hippies go ? Besides, any state that is going down the tubes and re-elects every incumbent legislator must be like the view from the lifeboats watching the Titanic.

  85. Mitch
    April 10, 2012 at 6:44 am

    713,

    If it’s a concern of yours, perhaps you should sue Fortuna. It’s not a concern of mine.

    My concern is with the ability of citizens to continue to exercise First Amendment rights in front of the main county administration building, without being told we are a health and safety hazard because there are mentally ill people in Eureka.

    That seems more important to me than a billboard, but maybe the billboard is more important to you.

  86. Mitch
    April 10, 2012 at 6:57 am

    Just Watchin,

    Florida seems to have its own troubles. I would think there would be plenty to anonymously heckle about closer to your home, if that’s how you enjoy spending your retirement time. Sorry to hear you’re no longer a one percenter.

    I can’t imagine a better example of a vibrant city/country economy than the Arcata Farmers Market. Fresh local vegetables and local crafts, trucked into an open city center every week by hard-working farmers to be sold at a festive, “everyone welcome” event with a good time had by all.

    Economic transactions take place, and because there are multiple outlets for most vegetables the transactions come pretty close to classical theoretical capitalism, as opposed to the odd spawn of capitalism that exists among larger economic players these days. Meanwhile, there’s free music, people juggling, toddlers toddling, and everyone smiles.

    Years ago, I spent many mornings there “gleaning” food contributions for distribution to sick people who would be helped by fresh food. The generosity of the farmers was awesome. The ratio of good food to damaged goods was probably 100 to 1.

    If that’s what happened to the hippies, the hippies made out pretty well, wouldn’t you say?

  87. April 10, 2012 at 7:35 am
  88. Mitch
    April 10, 2012 at 7:45 am

    But the arrests didn’t make today’s front page, and are not given “headline” status on the web, either. I’ll bet the staff justification is “it’s old news.” (“That’s some Catch, that Catch-22.”)

    The front page was taken up by: a trial starting in a 2009 shooting, HWMA moving forward on a food waste digester, and diseased birds on the Klamath. As is often the case, there are large, very good photos.

    Here’s the “newspapers” front page, for anyone who thinks it’s not a waste of time to look at it:

    http://extras.times-standard.com/footer_promotions/A1.pdf

  89. RefFan
    April 10, 2012 at 8:42 am

    Bring it on THE MAJORITY!!

  90. RefFan
    April 10, 2012 at 8:46 am

    You have to respond with hateful speach cuz your too idiotic to be reasonable, way to get the majority to listen to you.

  91. Mitch
    April 10, 2012 at 8:50 am

    RefFan (P),

    It takes about five minutes for someone skilled in internet searches to get your name and address. Taunting someone who is casually talking about killing people is dumb. Please don’t.

  92. Anonymous
    April 10, 2012 at 10:19 am

    RefFan, your comments on this blog show that you are far from reasonable and you are not in a position to judge others in this regard. According to you, Rush Limbaugh can call a woman a slut and prostitute and repeat this vile speech for days, and you think it is all innocent fun. Very strange.

    You also claimed on this blog that the murder of David Chain was justified because the murderer was really pissed off.

    Take a long look at yourself before accusing others of being unreasonable.

  93. April 10, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    “cuz your too idiotic”?

  94. Mitch
    April 10, 2012 at 6:08 pm

    RefFan’s probably gone, at least as a pseudonym, now that they realize they aren’t heckling from the safety of true anonymity.

  95. 2 cents
    April 10, 2012 at 11:08 pm

    Aw, c’mon! ‘The Majority’ was being sarcastic and he implied the person he was replying to HAD made a (probably more real) suggestion that folks should be killed. I thought he made a great point illustrating many of the things the Occupy movement is about – some of the things some say Eureka’s Occupy has lost touch with….

    Mitch – I don’t understand how you can quote that legal passage about how you couldn’t illustrate homelessness without allowing sleeping (I assume) protestors and then say Occupy Eureka looks bad and should/ should have changed their tactics (I’m too tired to look back for your exact words).

    I usually appreciate your comments, including in this thread – but these seem contradictory sentiments.

  96. Anonymous
    April 11, 2012 at 12:03 am

    Camping on the White House lawn is an effective, century-old form of protest, protected under the U.S. Constitution.

    The only logical exception to restrict the Constitutional right to protest would be to accommodate two competing protests in the same space.

    “The lawful activities of others” is not a specifically protected right under the Constitution and must fall secondary to accommodating American’s right to protest.

    I would hate to see anti-abortion protesters camping at the courthouse, but I would defend their right to do so.

  97. RefFan
    April 11, 2012 at 10:11 am

    Anon 10:19, state facts as they were actually said. I never said that David Chains murder was justified becuz the logger was pissed off. You lefties read to much into things and twist shit around to form a conspiracy of some sort. You ppl need to lighten up and be better citizens and neighbors, not always lookin for a fight.

  98. Mitch
    April 11, 2012 at 10:32 am

    2 cents,

    The legal passage was saying you CAN illustrate homelessness while not allowing camping. It’s from an important ruling that any court will have to consider when deciding what’s legal or not. It’s not a question of what you or I believe, it’s a question of what has become well-established legal precedent.

    When you have most of the public in an area telling you they agree with your goals but want you to go away, it might be valuable to consider why they are saying that. Whether or not you are responsible for a nuisance, you are now perceived by most as being responsible for that nuisance. From a purely practical point of view, even if you think you are accomplishing something by your presence, you should understand that at the same time, you are pissing people off and turning them away from you — even people who claim to be sympathetic.

    It’s not a matter of right or wrong, just or unjust. It’s plain reality.

    Occupy Eureka could put its energy into any number of different things rather than keeping people in front of the court house. Lots of alternatives might get you far more support than you’ve achieved.

    When situations change and new information comes up, it makes sense to reevaluate. You’ve seen what the typical Eureka resident thinks of the “occupation.” Do you think you’re accomplishing enough with it that it’s worthwhile despite that?

    Maybe you do, or maybe you just don’t want to back down. But you don’t have to back down, you can move forward to next steps that are more appropriate to the new information and new situation.

  99. Anonymous
    April 11, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    Here it is RefFan:

    RefFan says:
    March 29, 2012 at 3:10 pm

    He brought it upon himself, fucking with ppls lively hoods, it gets old really quick and tempers flare then shit happens. Its sad he died and it shldnt have happened but it was only a matter of time someone blew his top & lost it.

    He brought it on himself
    tempers flare then shit happens
    it was only a matter of time

    Sure sounds to me like you were trying to justify the murder. How many times have we heard “he brought it on himself” as a justification for killing or harming someone? Like, “yeah, that ni**er brought it on himself, being in the wrong neighborhood… or talking back to a white guy.”

    How many rapists have said “she brought it on herself”, “she was asking for it” ?

    Lighten up? As in, accept whatever sociopathic behavior you rednecks feel like doing? Maybe you should take more responsibility for your actions and stop excusing the bad behaviors of others just because you agree with their political viewpoints and hate anyone who points out your shortcomings.

  100. 2 cents
    April 11, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    Thanks for the clarification Mitch – I guess I was tired.
    In some ways, I agree with you re. Occupy Eureka’s tactics and than again, this is happening in the context of another movement – the OCCUPY movement…..Kind of a rock and a hard place choice.
    Plus – I don’t think the majority (or the “typical” you said) of Eurekans have spoken or are more repulsed by the Occupiers than the actions of the “1%”. If all Eurekans were so angry how come they couldn’t even turn out 50 people for ONE day for their anti demo?
    That toady supervisors follow orders from Arkleyites (or their ilk, as people ’round here like to say) proves nothing to me.
    The ‘Bitch tie your shoes’ incident says more about cops getting their way by purposefully failing to protect the public, than it does about the group at the courthouse……

  101. RefFan
    April 12, 2012 at 9:03 am

    As usual, you take what you want out of what was said and spin your own theory. You got to look at the situation at a whole and truely listen to my point. The cursing and outrage the logger expressed by these law breaking protestors is what I was referring to, not that he fell the tree to squash Chain cuz he was pissed.
    Dont preach to me about bad behaviors and shortcomings. Take a look at your behavior and responses to others who have a different opinion. VOTE REPUBLICAN!!

  102. Mitch
    April 12, 2012 at 9:12 am

    RefFan,

    Every time you open your mouth (or start tapping at your keyboard), it becomes clear what an incredibly unpleasant person you must be. When someone is killed, say they were killed, or they died. Don’t refer to it as being “squashed” or it might sound a little bit off to a neutral reader.

    All it does is reveal your true attitudes, which are sickening. Next time, I will seriously consider referring to you by name.

  103. Anonymous
    April 12, 2012 at 9:58 am

    RefFan, you are a liar. Your statement was clearly about the killing, not the yelling. You refer to the death explicitly. Now you’ve been called out and you deny the words that are plain as can be.

    Vote Republican??? Do you not see how that perfectly demonstrates your closed, ignorant mind?

    I agree with Mitch. From now on I’m going to ignore posts by you. Shoveling horse shit would be more enjoyable and useful.

  1. No trackbacks yet.

Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s