Home > Uncategorized > Mitt Romney: BIG FAT LIAR, part two

Mitt Romney: BIG FAT LIAR, part two

It’s gratifying that Obama’s campaign is responding to Romney’s deceit:

[Update: I’ve gone into business!  Check out my new storefront.  And remember, I’m a job creator. http://mitt-lies.com.]

  1. FUUHC
    July 19, 2012 at 10:50 am

    Obama is a Muslim who hates America. Mitt loves America.

  2. Mitch
    July 19, 2012 at 10:51 am

    Mitt’s wife, on the other hand, is a very direct person. In an interview on ABC, she’s said “we’ve given all you people need to know” when her interviewer asked about the Romney tax returns.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/19/ann-romney_n_1685735.html

    She also said they give 10% of his income to the Mormon church. Isn’t that a requirement of all Mormons? (Please correct me if I’m wrong, but how else did the church accumulate all that money to pass Prop H8?)

    I think Ann would make a lovely first lady. I can see her now, telling her assistant to be sure they fumigate the White House after each visit by “you people”. It’s a crying shame that drag queens will show her no mercy.

  3. unanonymous
    July 19, 2012 at 11:10 am

    yawn……..

  4. Anonymous
    July 19, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Mitch , there are many church organizations where the members give 10 % of their income .

  5. Mitch
    July 19, 2012 at 11:16 am

    I’m sure there are, 11:11. That’s nice.

  6. Donald Trump
    July 19, 2012 at 11:47 am

    Obama’s not only muslim, but a Kenyan socialist who wants to take away your guns and your money and give them to gays and minorities who are too lazy to work. I just hate it when people get money but didn’t earn it themselves.

  7. High Finance
    July 19, 2012 at 11:56 am

    Another nasty anti-Romney rant from the Mitch ?

    zzzzzzzzzz

  8. Mitch
    July 19, 2012 at 12:00 pm

    You still have your chance, HiFi. Just explain how this particular deceitful, out-of-context quote, delivered by a Presidential candidate, doesn’t actually mark a new low in Presidential campaigning.

    It’s all on video, right here. We’re all ears. And, unlike Romney, you’ve recently let a bit of truth slip through, acknowledging that the Iraq war was a war of choice, not a response to 9/11.

  9. Just Middle Finance
    July 19, 2012 at 12:18 pm

    None of these splice video tapes matter. Former White House Chief of Staff John Sununu said he wished President Obama “would learn how to be an American.” Mitt is a real American. That’s what matters. I have it on good authority that after Obama is reelected for a 2nd and final term, he plans on 1.) Socializing Health Care completely, no more insurance companies, just the government, 2.) Taking all of our guns away from us, and 3.) Paint the White House black. Also, I heard Obama plans on making us an Islamic Nation.

  10. Bolithio
    July 19, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    no more insurance companies, just the government

    Wow, that would be awesome!!!

  11. alley
    July 19, 2012 at 1:01 pm

    Just Middle Finance :
    None of these splice video tapes matter. Former White House Chief of Staff John Sununu said he wished President Obama “would learn how to be an American.” Mitt is a real American. That’s what matters. I have it on good authority that after Obama is reelected for a 2nd and final term, he plans on 1.) Socializing Health Care completely, no more insurance companies, just the government, 2.) Taking all of our guns away from us, and 3.) Paint the White House black. Also, I heard Obama plans on making us an Islamic Nation.

    OK, you’re kidding, right?

    But on the chance you are not kidding: Please explain how you have determined that Mitt is a real American… Do real Americans put tons of money offshore or do real Americans invest in America? Do real Americans send manufacturing jobs overseas, or do real Americans invest in manufacturing here in the good ol’ USA?

    I think you are “hearing” these things in your head or at least on Faux News. Sad for you.

  12. Just Middle Finance
    July 19, 2012 at 1:04 pm

    I am rethinking things now that I have more information. Maybe Fox has been deceiving me.

  13. Mitch
    July 19, 2012 at 1:15 pm

    No, JMF. I’ve heard that thing about painting the white house black, too. That’s two sources now.

  14. Plain Jane
    July 19, 2012 at 1:30 pm

    I heard he’s painting the outside black and the inside red.

  15. SNaFU
    July 19, 2012 at 1:33 pm

    An appropriate color to paint the White house should be “BROWN” from what comes out of there on both sides.
    “Politicians are like diapers…they both need changing often and for the same reason” Mark Twain.

  16. HUUFC
    July 19, 2012 at 2:08 pm

    The Romney clips are no big deal. Listen to the entire speech by Obummer, it’s pathetic, a grasping looser,who cannot recognize that
    “-That to secure these Rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just Powers from the Consent of the Governed, …”

    Not the other way around, that we serve him or the government.

    Vote him out before he finishes destroying the United States of America.

  17. FUUHC
    July 19, 2012 at 2:15 pm

    “America…
    America…
    America, FUCK YEAH!
    Coming again, to save the mother fucking day yeah,
    America, FUCK YEAH!
    Freedom is the only way yeah,
    Terrorist your game is through cause now you have to answer too,
    America, FUCK YEAH!
    So lick my butt, and suck on my balls,
    America, FUCK YEAH!
    What you going to do when we come for you now,
    it’s the dream that we all share; it’s the hope for tomorrow…”

  18. Larry M
    July 19, 2012 at 2:20 pm

    Mitch,
    Thank-you for all you contribute…listen not to the naysayers and wet blanket comments from Hi Fi….he/she thinks in illogical circles that must have been learned in Catholic school.
    Dogmatic and illogical but somehow likable in a way

  19. SNaFU
    July 19, 2012 at 2:24 pm

    Too much Gallo Bros Red for FUHHC

  20. Bolithio
    July 19, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Vote him out before he finishes destroying the United States of America.

    LOL, that slogan reminds me of EPIC claiming Old Growth is being Destroyed at RG! No matter how hard everyone tries, we are all cut from the same cloth. Pick your side, issue or fight, everyone uses the same manipulations to prove their way is right. We are all hypocrites. Now, let us all DRINK BEER. ;)

  21. Mitch
    July 19, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Larry M,

    Thanks. Don’t worry, I don’t take the idiots seriously at all.

    Want to think of something really funny? How’s this: imagine some anonymous loser on a Humboldt blog. Got that picture? Now imagine him calling a mixed-race kid who grew up with no connections, went on to Harvard Law School and then became President of the United States a “grasping looser (sic).”

    Real life doesn’t get funnier than that.

  22. Larry M
    July 19, 2012 at 2:50 pm

    Indeed

  23. What Now
    July 19, 2012 at 3:02 pm

    Good points, Mitch.

  24. SNaFU
    July 19, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    I don’t give a shit what Mitt Romney does with his money, it’s what Barack Obama does with mine.

  25. Joel Mielke
    July 19, 2012 at 5:13 pm

    Just Middle Finance’s comment was hilarious but Bolithio has summed it all up nicely.

  26. High Finance
    July 19, 2012 at 7:25 pm

    Snafu has summed it all up nicely at 5.02pm.

    The nasty people on the left here live to contribute to the degradation of politics.

  27. Ponder z
    July 19, 2012 at 7:37 pm

    And you are saying Obama is not a liar? Obama has the Homeland Security gestapo storming white growers. what do you think of that.

  28. firesidechet
    July 19, 2012 at 8:23 pm

    vilify the rich when you don’t have shit to stand on. Obama’s speech was a gift, and we thank you for it. Too bad you overplayed your hand, we could run anyone at this point and win. It was fun while it lasted eh?

  29. Plain Jane
    July 19, 2012 at 8:41 pm

    Yes Hifi, we force the GOP to tell outrageous lies for political gain and then hypocritically point at those lies just to degrade politics.

    Fireside should enjoy his fantasy for as long as possible and then prepare for 4 more years of a commie fascist socialist Muslim jihadist destruction of “his” country. “My” country will be run by a moderate whose goal is to get the country working and back on solid economic ground by strengthening the working classes which are, of course, the real fuel of the economy.

  30. Mitch
    July 19, 2012 at 8:47 pm

    Thanks for the lyrics FUUHC, but you really need the video for the full impact:

  31. Anonymous
    July 19, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    I agree with Plain Jane.
    Here’s to the Wealth Creators – the ones who buy your stinking products, take out loans, payoff credit cards, etc. Without wealth creators the investors and owners of Staples or Ford or Security National wouldn’t have a dime.

  32. Anonymous
    July 19, 2012 at 9:06 pm

    The sad thing about all this negative BS is that it creates such a sense of dread, mistrust and anger that we can’t move forward as a Nation. You can’t spend months and months smearing somebody and then show up to work after the election and expect to get something done.

  33. jr
    July 19, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    Today’s N.Y. Times reports that “for the first time since Primaries, Romney has an edge.” Unless and until the economy improves, Obama will have a real challenge in his re-election bid.

  34. Amy Breighton
    July 19, 2012 at 11:41 pm

    “I don’t give a shit what Mitt Romney does with his money,”

    Ha Ha! Good work Mitch!

    You’ve effectively put Heraldo’s resident Reich-Wingers on the defensive, forcing them to childishly change the subject and whine “haters” in response to Mitt’s blatant lie(s).

    Clearly, Obama is on the right track.

    The democrats suffered tremendous strategical losses by continually giving Bush’s lies a pass. Without another 9/11, and with tens of millions of foreclosures….and counting….it’s time to get angry and forcefully set the record straight.

    We used to have laws protecting Americans from usurious interest rates, job exports, offshore tax havens, banking corruption, illegal surveillance, illegal repression of public protest, prohibitive “public” university tuition, the multinational looting of U.S. natural resources without royalties, and on and on….

    For a generation, Americans had enjoyed the Fairness Doctrine requiring media to offer opposing political viewpoints, while today, merely reminding citizens of our once-strong middle class, (and the legislation and investments in the interest of our human resources that built it), will require a presidential-effort.

  35. Ponder z
    July 20, 2012 at 6:09 am

    Oh Amy, you can thank the Clintons for NAFTA and its open boarders for the state we are in today. When you talk of fairness doctrine I cant help but wonder when my posts will be deleted on this blog. And Amy, how do you like the debt that Obama has driven us into. Remember HOPE and CHANGE? They never said you would hope to have enough change to buy food. Jimmy Carter wrote this book we now live.

  36. Bolithio
    July 20, 2012 at 7:02 am


    Ponder z
    July 19, 2012 at 7:37 pm | #27
    Quote

    And you are saying Obama is not a liar? Obama has the Homeland Security gestapo storming white growers. what do you think of that.

    Now thats a good point. We need a white prez busting blacks, or at least mexicans. Thats the message here. Well said Ponder.

  37. Mitch
    July 20, 2012 at 7:11 am

    Well, AB, it’s true that not one post has tried to claim that Romney was not lying, or that his videotaped deceit was not a new low in Presidential politics.

    The responses continue to fall into a few categories.

    Most popular seems to be “Obama bad,” which is not a serious response to “Romney lies.” If somebody cared to admit that Romney’s behavior is the most blatantly deceitful they’ve ever seen in a Presidential race, and then explain why they’d still prefer him to Obama, that would be a serious — and wrong — response.

    Next most popular is “they all do it.” This also fails to address the Romney behavior. All politicians spin. I’ve never before seen a campaign intentionally lie about the meaning of an opponent’s words, and make it the basis of a campaign thrust. That is new, and due to Romney.

    The frightening part of this, to me, is that Romney and his conspirators are not dumb. For whatever reasons, they have calculated that they can benefit from flat-out lies to the American people. That is quite a statement about the organizations that are supposed to point out such lies, but it’s a statement I think is accurate: the “professional news media,” taken as a whole, is no longer a valuable contributor to our democracy. At best, it’s become incompetent; at worst, the incentives within the industry now lean to not rocking the corporate boat, where once they leaned to justice or, at least, loud scandal.

  38. Bolithio
    July 20, 2012 at 7:31 am

    For whatever reasons, they have calculated that they can benefit from flat-out lies to the American people.

    Did you happen to notice the Bush administration? Lying to ‘The American people’ can be extremely profitable. We had our war republicans, now its time for the corporate/banking republicans to get their share.

  39. Plain Jane
    July 20, 2012 at 7:31 am

    You should have read more carefully, Jr. Nationwide polling is essentially meaningless because a few points up or down in non-swing states won’t change the election outcome. It is the swing states that matter and that is where the Obama campaign is making gains with their ads attacking Romney on his job outsourcing, secret offshore bank accounts and refusal to release his tax returns.

  40. Plain Jane
  41. Plain Jane
    July 20, 2012 at 7:43 am

    Intrade currently has Obama at 57.1 v Romney at 40.6.

    http://electoralmap.net/2012/intrade.php

  42. Mitch
    July 20, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Bolithio,

    I think your response points out that I didn’t make my point clearly.

    Yes, of course the W administration lied whenever it opened its mouth. That administration only existed, from the selection on, due to lies.

    The difference here is that this is a lie handed to the cameras by the candidate himself, when the evidence that it is a lie is easily available to anyone who is willing to look at the quotation in context.

    The Bush administration lies generally involved fig-leafs and “secret data” — think WMD. Romney’s team has realized that lying to the public, directly by Romney himself, even when the lie is bald-faced and trivially confirmed to be a lie by any objective person, can be a net benefit to his campaign.

    That’s new, and a devastating comment on the decay of the “free press” and the rise of Fox News-style mouthpieces.

  43. Just Watchin
    July 20, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Mitch……blaming Bush for everything only makes you look more foolish each time you do it

  44. Plain Jane
    July 20, 2012 at 8:31 am

    JW, refusing to admit that our economic problems are the direct fault of Bush makes you look like a fool.

  45. HUUFC
    July 20, 2012 at 9:01 am

    Please, please, don’t bring up the fairness doctrine. I don’t want the government deciding what stories to place in the media.

  46. Bolithio
    July 20, 2012 at 11:10 am

    Mitch, remember the bumper sticker: “When Clinton Lied, Nobody Died?”

    I see your points, it just doesn’t seem like such a big deal to me considering all the lies we have gotten from the White House since as long as I can remember. Lies in which people die, lots of people. So a politician is lying to drive his campaign. A risk, but apparently a pre-req of the job.

  47. 69er
    July 20, 2012 at 11:15 am

    All I can say is “I am voting for the American”.

  48. Plain Jane
    July 20, 2012 at 11:17 am

    What lies has Obama told about Romney?

  49. retired guy
    July 20, 2012 at 11:20 am

    69er–Another lie “believer”. I bet your favorite “news” show is Fox.

  50. Mitch
    July 20, 2012 at 11:20 am

    “it just doesn’t seem like such a big deal”

    Well, Bolithio, we just disagree. This stands out to me as a new low. I don’t believe any politician has ever gone in front of a camera and intentionally misquoted his opponent in order to give a false impression of his opponent’s statement, knowing full well that his opponent’s complete statement is easily available.

    If Mitt Romney is that willing to lie in this situation, and that cool about it, he’d be a disastrous President.

    I think it’s broader than just Romney, because I think he is a golden example of the sort of person our “business community” has taken to worshiping.

    He walks into companies telling every group what it needs to hear, and he screws over whoever he wants, whenever he wants, without breaking a sweat. That’s the pattern he’s going to use in his run. He avoids taxes using every trick in the book, and he feels the need for a Swiss bank account. He doesn’t think he has to explain himself to anyone and, often, he doesn’t. He flat out broke Massachusetts election laws, but it’s not in any official’s interest to even investigate.

    To get an idea of what a chilling person Romney is, watch the whole video from Mitt Gets Worse (11:16) — think about how you would behave when confronted by the same woman, regardless of your feelings about the policy issue under discussion. For your sake, I hope it would be nothing like what she describes.

  51. Plain Jane
    July 20, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    Iwould appreciate someone listing Obama lies. Broken campaign promises don’t count because they are merely a wish list which not a single president has ever been able to fulfill, especially when having to deal with a house majority who has made the president’s failure their top priority – above doing what this country needs.

  52. Mitch
    July 20, 2012 at 12:06 pm

    Yes, PJ, those citations have just been pouring in, coming almost as fast as the defenses of Romney’s behavior.

  53. jr
    July 20, 2012 at 12:38 pm

    Some books that can shed light on the candidates: “The Real Romney” by Michael Kranish and Scott Helman and “The Amateur, Barack Obama in the White House” by Edward Klein

  54. Plain Jane
    July 20, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    Why don’t you highlight what you see as the most important points in each book, Jr. I don’t have the time or the inclination to read either.

  55. High Finance
    July 20, 2012 at 4:06 pm

    Seriously people, get a life.

  56. Fact Checker
    July 20, 2012 at 4:23 pm

    4:06 No facts to check, just more fright-wing hate.

  57. Thirdeye
    July 20, 2012 at 5:02 pm

    SNaFU :
    I don’t give a shit what Mitt Romney does with his money, it’s what Barack Obama does with mine.

    Sure, you don’t care if he uses tax loopholes to get an effective rate lower than working Americans pay. Taxes are for little people, right?

  58. Joel Mielke
    July 20, 2012 at 5:57 pm

    Seriously people, get a life.

    “Seriously” HiFi, how can you participate in this thread while impugning others for taking part?

  59. Mitch
    July 20, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    I listened to NPR this evening as they covered what they called, I think, a “debate” about “American values,” playing the extended Obama quote at the center of this thread.

    I must be very detached from our culture, because I don’t see this as a debate at all. I see this as an intentional misrepresentation of one candidate’s statements by another. Or, to be succinct, I think this is Romney lying about what Obama says.

    I’m not surprised at how the mainstream media handles it — I just don’t pretend to understand how they think.

  60. tborstein veblen
    July 20, 2012 at 9:29 pm

    the saying goes ‘taxes are for suckers’.

  61. High Finance
    July 20, 2012 at 9:58 pm

    I “participate” Joel because I hope for some intelligent topics. Not this recent obsession with promoting the Obama campaign.

    Surely even you must be getting bored with this recent tripe ?

  62. Joel Mielke
    July 21, 2012 at 9:36 am

    True, HiFi. I do prefer local topics. The news that a Presidential candidate dissembles is uninteresting, and not likely to inspire thoughtful comments.

    I’ll simply be considering an even worse Supreme Court under Romney when I vote for his opponent. And I’m not sure that America is ready for a non-Christian President.

  63. High Finance
    July 21, 2012 at 4:24 pm

    Joel, you might be surprised on how much you and I agree on things. It would shake the kool-aide drinkers here.

    National politics bore me because Calif is going to vote for the Democrat no matter what. If the Dems ran Adolph Hitler with Stalin as his VP and the Reps ran Jesus Christ with Mother Teresa as his VP, Hitler/Stalin would win in November.

  64. Thirdeye
    July 21, 2012 at 4:32 pm

    HiFi, you have offered no contention that what Romney said wasn’t intentionally deceitful, to counter Mitch’s claim that it was. Do you think Romney was being deceitful or not? And why? It’s either deceitful or stupid. Maybe both.

    If you just want information that reinforces your views, stick with Fox News and the like.

  65. High Finance
    July 22, 2012 at 8:02 am

    All politicians are at least a little “deceitful” by putting the best spin for them on everything they say & do Thirdeye.

    If you think your favorite politicians are not then you are just being deceived.

    The fact of the matter is, Obama downplayed the role succesfull entrepreneurs have in their own success by exaggerating the role government has in it. The gist of what Romney said is correct.

  66. Mitch
    July 22, 2012 at 8:20 am

    “Obama downplayed the role succesfull entrepreneurs have in their own success by exaggerating the role government has in it.”

    How is President Obama’s statement wrong, HiFi? Is it just a result of the envy he must feel for his betters, having merely risen (without money or family connections) to become President of the United States?

    I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

    If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

  67. Thirdeye
    July 22, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Hi Fi, where in the quote posted by Mitch is Obama “downplaying the role successful entrepreneurs have in their own success?” He directly acknowledged the role of hard work and intelligence in business success. To say that indicates (giving Romney’s and your integrity the benefit of the doubt) an amazing lack of comprehension.

    Do you really think that the availability of a skilled workforce, social cohesion, and public infrastructure doesn’t have a vital role in business success? The princess of high finance might be able to convince themselves that they create wealth out of thin air, but ALL wealth is created by matching labor, skill, and resources. It’s a team effort. You and Romney seem to be having some trouble recognizing the workforce and maintainers of public infrastructure as members of the team. When financiers stop being team players with the rest of the country they become useless. They even destroy the business environment that allows other entrepreneurs to prosper. Henry Ford’s greatest contribution to American capitalism was recognizing the importance of taking care of the workforce to maintaining a healthy business environment.

    Is your all-politicians-spin-so-if-Romney-told-a-bald-faced-lie-its-ok contention your fallback position for when it is demonstrated, as by the quote posted by Mitch, that what Romney said was completely untrue?

  68. Smart 5th Grader
    July 23, 2012 at 7:40 am

    Highly Delusional said July 22, 2012 at 8:02 am | #65 Quote
    “…The gist of what Romney said is correct.”
    Wow! Where do I start? Romney flat out completely misrepresented what the President said. You need to go back to 4th grade and learn what the definition of “gist” is.
    “gist: the main point or part : essence “

  69. High Finance
    July 24, 2012 at 8:47 am

    Dude, seriously, get a life.

  70. Mitch
    July 24, 2012 at 8:48 am

    Looks like they’ve finally outsourced HiFi to someplace they don’t speak English. The new guy in China just has a few stock phrases he’s been instructed to use, and gets $0.10 per post.

  71. Plain Jane
    July 24, 2012 at 9:02 am

    He only gets $5 for posting “class envy” because he’s used it too many times.

  72. Plain Jane
    July 24, 2012 at 9:02 am

    $0.05

  73. Mitch
    July 24, 2012 at 9:03 am

    I feel kinda sorry for the American former-HiFi, but business is business. I sure hope the guy can find health insurance once his COBRA expires.

  74. RefFan
    July 24, 2012 at 10:12 am

    [Update: I’ve gone into business! Check out my new storefront. And remember, I’m a job creator. http://www.cafepress.com/MittLies%5D

    UPDATE: Your a shit stirrer and a hypocrit! Your political blog does the same thing political campaigns do. Smear others and continue to seperate the american ppl by those means. We cannot change the way things are, there is too many money-lovin & power-cravin ppl out there.

  75. Mitch
    July 24, 2012 at 10:21 am

    Thanks, RefFan. Why not visit http://mitt-lies.com, the insta-site I tossed on the web this weekend. If you search it really hard, you may find a place to vote on whether Mitt Romney is a liar, a big liar, a big fat liar, or a big fat fucking liar. Or buy a bumper sticker from my site on Cafe Press.

  76. Smart 5th Grader
    July 24, 2012 at 10:22 am

    Easy RefFan, just Americans exercising their right to free speech. Though Hi Fi advocates the outsourcing of the American Dream, I defend even his right to participate in democratic discussion. Ignorance and treasonous economic policy are protected by the Bill of Rights. Perhaps if you got some help with your anger towards others.
    “Controlling Anger — Before It Controls You”
    http://www.apa.org/pubinfo/anger.html

  77. Smart 5th Grader
    July 24, 2012 at 10:23 am

    Mitch. Did you mean “the American former-HiFi” or “The Hi-Fi, former American”?

  78. Mitch
    July 24, 2012 at 10:28 am

    former HiFi, continually anti-American

  79. High Finance
    July 24, 2012 at 10:33 am

    Seriously you two ? That is the best you got ?

  80. Mitch
    July 24, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Give it time, Chinese HiFi, and enjoy your nickel.

  81. Plain Jane
    July 25, 2012 at 12:49 pm

    I don’t know if my post about the AP rejecting Mitt’s claim that he left Bain in 1999 is in moderation or if the post failed. I’ll give it a few and see if it shows up.

  82. What Now
    July 25, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Upon re-reading the entire thread over two cups of strong black coffee, my vote is for “Mitt Romney is a big fat fucking liar”.
    NIce website by the way, Mitch.
    Well done and in true classic american entrepeneurial spirit.

  83. July 25, 2012 at 2:19 pm

    PJ, your comment isn’t in the spam file and not pending approval. Internet gremlins ate it.

  84. Plain Jane
    July 25, 2012 at 2:44 pm

    Here it is again.

    AP rejects Romney’s claim that he left Bain in 1999

    “With AP joining the Washington Post’s Glenn Kessler among the fact-checkers who are now refuting Romney’s Bain departure claim, Romney is going to have a more difficult time ignoring questions about the soft underbully of his tenure at the firm.
    Of the 10 most profitable deals that Romney struck while at Bain, four ended up with companies in bankruptcy and workers being laid off. Those four companies represented more than $500 million in profit to Bain—nearly 40 percent of the profits from their top 10 deals—and they illustrate Romney’s ruthless “heads I win, tails you lose” business philosophy. Instead of defending his role in those deals, Romney has argued that he wasn’t responsible for them because he had already left for the Olympics.

    For much of the campaign, Romney has been able to get away with that explanation, but reporting by Mother Jones, Talking Points Memo, Boston Globe, Washington Post, Huffington Post, Daily Kos, and others have debunked his excuse. And now that AP has joined the debunkers, it’s safe to assume Mitt Romney is feeling some additional pressure to come up with another excuse to avoid taking responsibility for his actions. Retroactively, if possible.”

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/25/1113498/-AP-concludes-Romney-s-Bain-role-continued-past-his-claimed-departure
    Read the whole story here:

  85. Walt
    July 25, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    The problem, PJ, is that Murdoch, Fox, the mainstream media, and all the advertising the Koch brothers can afford will trump Mother Jones and the rest. America will obey its TV: Obama is toast, regardless of how bad Romney is, in part because he gave up his base.

  86. Plain Jane
    July 25, 2012 at 7:57 pm

    I think a large percentage of Obama’s base, despite their disappointment, know that Romney would be a catastrophe for progressive values and the working class. I won’t be surprised if sizable segment of the Fox demographics realize that as well and will vote their best interests in the secrecy of the voting booth. The low information voters will decide based on battling sound bytes. Polls show a large majority want to see Romney’s returns and they want to know how and where he made his money. Most regions have suffered from robber princes; if not Romney then Hurwitz, Koch, Singer, etc. As cynical as I am about the judgment of the American people, I just can’t believe 51% could be stupid enough to vote for this sociopath.

  87. Thorstein Veblen
    July 25, 2012 at 9:10 pm

    51% of the American people? Surely not. But 51% of registered and officially sanctioned voters, perhaps.

    Really, if Romney were saying that, yes, he screwed the middle class workers and dodged every tax he could and sent jobs to China because it was profitable to do so, and pocketed millions even while bankrupting companies and pension plans, and that since he knows all of the cons, he’s the guy to close up the loopholes and fix the system and lessen income inequality, well, that might have some appeal. Kind of like a former alchoholic mentoring somebody at AA, having been there might help in understanding the addiction. He could say it nicer, but you get the idea.

    BUT HE’S NOT SAYING THAT!!!! He thinks the system is just dandy, and wants to make it even more so by more de-regulation and lower taxes for the rich. His solution is for everyone in America to become a corporate vulture. Problem solved!!

  88. Thirdeye
    July 25, 2012 at 10:53 pm

    High Finance :
    Dude, seriously, get a life.

    That’s a non-answer to some very direct questions, Hi Fi.

  89. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 6:36 am

    Thank you, Thirdeye. I continue to be disgusted but not terribly surprised at the way this has been playing out in the mainstream media. Last night’s NPR All Things Considered, the supposedly liberal show, actually started a story with the out-of-context nine words and then, instead of pointing out how they changed the meaning of the larger quote went on to the standard, idiotic media discussion of the “two perspectives on business.”

    This is not “two perspectives on business.” This is a deceitful, intentional job of saddling Obama with nine words that, taken out of context, do not reflect his opinions (or anyone’s) about business. But because of the behavior of today’s press corpse, for reasons I cannot imagine, Romney’s campaign is getting good traction with this. Unless you spend your time on progressive web sites or perhaps listening to the Rachel Maddow show or something along those lines, you never hear anyone pointing out that the issue is Romney’s willingness to deceive when it is clear he would be caught by a functional media.

  90. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 7:01 am

    The statement is offensive to many people Mitch, in or out of context. Everybody knows without roads, power, etc. there would be no commerce. That is why they were built. It benefits everybody to have good infrastructure. How do you explain differences in wealth between siblings or people from similar socio economic backgrounds if it is not the individual that makes the difference?

  91. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 7:27 am

    Who said it’s not the individual who makes the difference, 713?

  92. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 8:09 am

    “If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen.”

    Well, if “somebody else” made your business happen, it certainly wasn’t you, the individual, who made the difference then, was it?

    I know PJ, that’s not the quote so you have trouble with the concept that words put together in a certain fashion can mean something that isn’t explicitly stated.

    This ideology could be great for liability though, I mean if “somebody else” is responsible for your business success, hopefully they can take on the liability if it fails. Oh wait, we did that with the banks and GM. Too bad it doesn’t extend to the rest of us.

  93. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 8:43 am

    What he said EXACTLY is

    “If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business–you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.”

    It is obvious to functionally literate people that in this context “You didn’t build that” refers to the roads, bridges, internet, taxes paying teachers, etc. To claim otherwise proves you are either a liar or a functional illiterate. Which is it 7:13?

  94. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 8:47 am

    For the record, the Democratic attempt to make Romney’s statement about restarting his campaign after the Aurora, CO, tragedy an “etch-a-sketch” opportunity is also dishonest. It is obvious, in the context of the question and response, that Romney was referring to restarting his campaign after supposedly stopping it out of respect for the senseless loss of life in Aurora.

  95. tra
    July 26, 2012 at 10:01 am

    Similarly, when the Democrats made a big deal about Romney saying “I like being able to fire people” — even though the context made it abundantly clear that he was talking about being able to switch health insurers — that was also an example of dishonestly taking words out of context in a way that completely changed the meaning of what was said to make it seem as though he had slipped up and revealed something emblematic about his philosophy.

    I guess the difference is that Obama himself did not get up to the podium and repeat the out-of-context phrase over and over in his stump speeches, and his campaign did not start running commercials in which the out-of-context phrase was prominently featured. So it’s an example of the same phenomenon of partisans cynically taking their opponents’ words out of context, the difference being that Obama himself did not personally stoop to that level.

  96. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 10:08 am

    713 @8:09,

    I’m disappointed, because you had seemed like an honest and intelligent person, in contrast to so many of the personas on this blog with whom I regularly disagree. However, your statement at 8:09 indicates that you are either easily fooled by big fat fucking liars or perfectly willing to sing in their chorus, along with the rest of the lying and/or moronic choir.

    PJ at 8:43 provides you with, as she correctly put it, EXACTLY what the President said. What is incorrect or even controversial about the President’s statement?

  97. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 10:12 am

    And tra, you leave out an additional relevant point — the business which Romney owned and ran did make its money by firing people. Obama has never behaved as if he does not recognize that individual initiative is a critical part of business success. Please right wingers, find me wrong.

  98. tra
    July 26, 2012 at 10:32 am

    True, Mitch, but it’s still an example where the words were taken completely out of context to make it seem as if he was saying out loud what his opponents think he “secretly believes,” whereas in fact he was saying no such thing.

  99. not a fan
    July 26, 2012 at 10:34 am

    Except Obama never ran anything. Never wrote a pay check.

    Still the same stupid crap from Mitch and PJ. Neither who has accomplished anything in life. Great intellectuals in their own minds.

    Blog was crap before now its sinking. All the crap you spout shows neither of you have any experience in business and worse have no real critical thinking skills.

    Don’t bother to run your mouths at me. I just spent 10 days in another part of the world, full of real people. Good thing about leaving this area is seeing that your progressive views are not shared by other peoples. Liberalism is a form of mental illness, not frequently treatable.

  100. Eric Kirk
    July 26, 2012 at 10:35 am

    Oh, that argument is just to intellectually justify the act. Romney knows that millions of people who see the ad will probably never hear, read, or get the context. That it’s the centerpiece of his campaign says volumes about its lack of substance.

  101. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 10:54 am

    Equating the lies of political supporters to the lies of campaign officials and the candidates themselves is disingenuous, at best. Putting what you want people to believe was meant in quotes is a lie if that isn’t exactly what was said. The sort of people who don’t get the importance of context in a sentence certainly don’t get context in a paragraph or why we use paragraphs to separate different topics. These are the people who think Palin made sense.

  102. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 11:11 am

    Not a Fan posts nothing but insults as if we care about his sociopathic opinions and has the gall to tell us, basically, to stfu because we aren’t rich. Romney’s supporters are either idiots who can’t figure out their own best interests so fall prey to the sociopaths or sociopaths like Not a Fan.

  103. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 11:21 am

    tra,

    Yes, you’re right about that. I still don’t see them as nearly comparable.

    not a fan,

    You may be right. The President may never have signed a paycheck. On the other hand, he did manage to grow up without connections or money, make his way through Columbia and Harvard Law, edit the Harvard Law Review, get himself elected to the Illinois State Senate, get himself elected to the Senate, and become President of the United States.

    Mitt Romney, on the other hand, has almost certainly signed a million dollar paycheck or two. Of course, that doesn’t mean he’s ever run a productive business, or knows a single thing about the hard challenges of starting and nurturing a business with little money and few connections.

    Unlike Obama, Romney chose his father extraordinarily wisely, picking a Governor and the CEO of American Motors. He also chose his mother well; though she was “just a housewife,” she ran unsuccessfully for the United States Senate. (When you are a wealthy white woman married to a Governor, you are Senatorial material in Merica, regardless of your other experience, in politics or otherwise.) Romney managed to get into the wonderful, elegant Cranbrook School, where he was a noted bully. He graduated from Brigham Young University. He not only got a law degree from Harvard, but was taught the best money making techniques at the B school there. Perhaps it’s at the illustrious Harvard Business School that Mitt learned how to use the Cayman Islands and Swiss banks.

    He did not go into business immediately, instead going to work for Bain Consulting. After a while at Bain, he was able to raise $37 million to start his own private equity spinoff from Bain and profit from the destruction of American industry. (He never worked for American industry, except as a drop-in consultant.)

  104. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 11:34 am

    “I just spent 10 days in another part of the world, full of real people.”

    Translated into non-sociopath speak it means:

    People who are subservient to money, who are begging to work for a bed in a factory dorm or a cardboard shanty and work for pennies on the dollar of American wages. Of course, these “real people” will never be able to afford to buy the products they are making and the people who used to make them can no longer afford to buy them either.

    People like Not a Fan and Romney so love those “free market” countries where money can buy anything and the labor pool is a disposable commodity, less than human, left to starve when someone will do the work for a few pennies less or fewer environmental and labor protections. Their visceral hatred of those who demand dignity, a living wage and equality of opportunity is obvious. They are about as UnAmerican as it is possible to be. Their attacks on the US and working class Americans have done more damage than terrorists with their bombs.

  105. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 11:35 am

    Their *economic attacks on the US…..

  106. not a man
    July 26, 2012 at 12:52 pm

    Only the Overlords who create and destroy jobs should be elected to serve the people.

  107. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 1:25 pm

    Mtich –

    I am not dishonest. I read the quote here, and I watched it on youtube. I have not seen it on FOX or any other network. What I took away from the quote is that he is diminishing the value of the hard work, risk-taking, luck, etc. involved in building a business. Maybe we all hear what we want to hear, communication is funny that way.

    So Obama is saying businesses didn’t build the infrastructure that allowed them to be successful. OK, I agree with that. What is the point of tying in infrastructure with business success if not to diminish the individual’s role in that success? Why even bring it up?

    I don’t appreciate you calling me dishonest due to me being honest about what the quote means to me. Here we go with the liberal, “either you agree with my or you are lying or stupid.” gotta love that.

    I guess I will go back to work where I get paid to read, interpret, and analyze things.
    Somebody should alert my boss they have a dishonest idiot running things for them. I’m sure they would like to know. Oh, and functionally illiterate too.

  108. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 1:39 pm

    713 asks,

    “What is the point of tying in infrastructure with business success if not to diminish the individual’s role in that success? Why even bring it up?”

    The point is that over the past few decades, a bizarre libertarian/conservative view has been foisted on the American public, a view that suggests that it is an outrage to suggest that people are part of a community and can reasonably be expected to pay taxes to enable that community to continue. A view that suggests that a single penny paid to government is robbery. A view that completely denies the realities of what American success is based upon.

    Yes, 713. If you don’t get that Romney’s intentional misquoting of the President is a flat out, bald faced lie, I think you are either a liar or functionally illiterate.

    Somebody should alert your boss that they have a dishonest idiot running things for them.

  109. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 1:43 pm

    The Mitt Romney for President campaign has a message for you from 713. It is a direct quote — every word was included in 713’s message just above, and the Romney campaign is quoting 713 in the same manner we have quoted the President — honestly, and word-for-word:

    “Somebody should alert my boss they have a dishonest idiot running things for them.”

  110. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    How can someone who supposedly is paid to read, interpret and analyze anything ignore the majority of the paragraph and claim they believe that 9 words, which were almost an aside, sums up the paragraph is beyond me. That you believe stating that everyone, even the titans of commerce, had help along the way some how diminishes their accomplishments is completely irrational. It may gall you to admit that even you didn’t succeed on your own, but a little humility goes a long way. It’s particularly striking that the business owners Romney has been trotting out to claim they had no government help have turned out to have their noses in the government trough a lot deeper than food stamp recipients.

  111. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 1:53 pm

    “Here we go with the liberal, “either you agree with my or you are lying or stupid.” gotta love that.”

    Romney deceptively took the President’s words out of context to suggest that he was saying people didn’t build their businesses. They’ve now made that a major part of their campaign.

    That is not a “liberal” opinion. That is a fact. Give this situation to absolutely any observer outside of the United States, remove the names, and ask them whether this is an instance of egregious deception. If they say no, then I’m guilty of a “liberal” attitude. But they cannot and will not, because this is simply not an arguable point, any more than that four quarts make a gallon. That’s not liberal either.

  112. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    She probably has a boss like HiFi whose reading skills are even worse than hers.

  113. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 6:06 pm

    Mitch,
    You are so far off base. I expect to pay taxes. I donate time and money to charities and I value the services provided by the government. I don’t think one cent is robbery as you suggest, but I do think that the government should grow only as much as the population. I am aware there have been massive cuts, but when we have the park service hiding tens of millions while having us do bake sales under the threat of closing parks, I am suspicious.

    I have friends who worked 10 – 15 years for the state and are retired. We have county employees who retire and then get hired back while they are on a pension. The same goes on at the federal level. I see the brand new federal, state, and county vehicles being driven around, the office remodels, and the thousands of employees on the payroll who do little or nothing, or at least they have time to loiter around and yap about nothing while people stand in line (DMV anyone?). I think they don’t get it. Our politicians made stupid deals over the years and soon our state will be essentially carrying two payrolls, one for the workers and one for the retirees. Of course there is no money for this, so no, I don’t want to pay more taxes because some fucking idiots in Sacramento or DC made some deal they couldn’t afford. Maybe if I thought they wouldn’t piss the money away or reward their political allies, I’d pony up some more cash.

    The top 10% of taxpayers are paying something like 3/4 of all the taxes. I know, it’s because they are the ones making the money and I am aware that wealth has accumulated upward, but isn’t it fair to say that the bottom 90% of taxpayers are getting something of value from the government they should pay for as well? You think it is reasonable that half of everybody pays nothing and gets the same benefits? Sales tax – please don’t bring that up because groceries aren’t taxed.

    I haven’t even seen the Romney ad, I didn’t play the one on this post. I am not some Romney shill, I think he is creepy, but you are fixated on that. They all lie, Mitch. Every one of them.

    I think it is weak and pathetic that because you can’t understand where I am coming from you think I am dishonest and/or stupid.

    So fuck you Mitch, so much for an open exchange of ideas. You wonder why this country is all screwed up. Look in the mirror.

    asshole.

    Ya, you too PJ.

  114. Walt
    July 26, 2012 at 6:09 pm

    Remember, a Big Lie, repeated often enough, becomes Truth. That’s the essence of advertising. And with the billions the right has, this is only the beginning.

  115. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 6:18 pm

    And yet with all the requests for a list of lies (not unfulfilled campaign promises) that Obama has told we got nothing. What lies has he told about Romney? As everyone knows by now, the Romney claims about when he left Bain and what sort of investments he made have been proven false. His vulture capitalism looting of company assets, pensions and increasing their debt burdening them into bankruptcy, pocketing millions which he invested in China to offshore more American jobs doesn’t look very good on a presidential resume but his attempt to bury the facts has failed as will his quest for the presidency. Hopefully by 2016 he’ll be in prison and won’t be able to run again.

  116. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Pj what did he say about hiring lobbyists?

  117. Cupid
    July 26, 2012 at 6:54 pm

    Mitch & 713, geez, get a room already.

  118. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 7:08 pm

    Unfulfilled campaign promise, 713. He did sign an executive order restricting lobbyists in his administration but has granted a few waivers. It’s hard to find experts in different policy areas without tapping into the industries they deal with, an improvement but less than perfect.

  119. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 7:51 pm

    I would call it a lie. I can see the unfulfilled promise argument in areas he can’t control, but this is his staff.

  120. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    Yes I’m sure that someone who is upset that Obama didn’t ban every lobbyist from the White House is going to vote for a man who hired lobbyists to bribe our govt for even more wealth. At least the few lobbyists that Obama hired are restricted in their authority and putting their expertise to work for our benefit. What has Romney said about lobbyists? We know he has Bushes neocons on speed dial.

  121. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 8:45 pm

    You asked for a lie. I delivered.

  122. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Do you know what Obama really said about lobbyists in his administration or are you once again trusting an out of context group of words as evidence, 713?

  123. 713
    July 26, 2012 at 9:22 pm

    You and I both know what he said.

    Are you saying Mitch took the words out of context?

  124. Plain Jane
    July 26, 2012 at 9:26 pm

    You’ll have to give me more to go on than that unless you mean when he quoted you saying someone should tell your boss that you’re stupid and dishonest (paraprasing the quote). I’m too tired to re-read the whole thread.

  125. suzy blah blah
    July 26, 2012 at 11:09 pm

    -@ 713, I understand your exasperation. I’ve learned that an open discussion with Mitch is impossible because he’s unwilling to learn anything new. I realized this a while back when he flat out refused to reason with me about the meaning of the famous “anti-war” painting, Guernica, His mind was so snapped shut that he couldn’t even see, or consider, obvious evidence of a view other than the one handed to him by wikipedia or his college textbooks. Even when i pointed out obvious facts about the painting, right in front of his eyes –he refused to look at it and preferred to take the comfortable subjective path of prejudice. In other words he feels more comfortable going along with lies handed out than to have to question authority, think for himself, and learn something new. That’s Mitch.

  126. Mitch
    July 26, 2012 at 11:15 pm

    713 bleats,

    “I haven’t even seen the Romney ad, I didn’t play the one on this post.”

    Wow. Says it all.

  127. Mitch
    July 27, 2012 at 12:28 am

    Candidate A: “You know, there are a lot of safety regulations that are not being enforced in mines. But when a mine collapses, that’s not your problem. You need to get the miners out.”

    Candidate B (with astonishment): “Here’s what A said: ‘when a mine collapses, that’s not your problem.'” How callous! When people’s lives are at stake, that’s definitely your problem.

    Candidate A: “Asbestos is a serious health hazard, and we’ve known that for years. And yet Acme Construction still uses asbestos in their construction projects, even for schools. When you build a school, that’s just evil. Asbestos shouldn’t be used anywhere, but especially not in schools.”

    Candidate B (with astonishment): “Here’s what A said: ‘when you build a school, that’s just evil.’ Well, I don’t know about my opponent, but I think schools are a good thing.”

    This is what Romney has done. If people are unable to see that, I don’t know what to say.

  128. 713
    July 27, 2012 at 6:30 am

    You mean something like this, Mitch:
    http://qvga.factcheck.org/2012/07/bain-still-no-evidence/

  129. Mitch
    July 27, 2012 at 6:46 am

    I understand that CEOs are used to being rewarded for doing nothing, and like to have the wiggle room to take credit for success and evade responsibility for failure. But if you are the owner and listed in SEC documents as the CEO during a particular period, you either lied to the SEC or you are lying when you say you had nothing to do with the firm’s decisions during that period.

    If the janitor for Bain Capital now said, oh, yes, I didn’t do any cleanup during the past three years, but the janitor had happily accepted paychecks, that would be considered fraud. Why is it different for the CEO?

    As much as corporate CEOs have become used to having it both ways, you cannot have it both ways forever without the rest of the world finally getting fed up.

  130. Fed up
    July 27, 2012 at 6:52 am

    Romney’s pants are on fire from lying to be sure… Common Dreams gives him a gold medal in lying. Of greater concern to me are the presstitute’s failure to brand him as a Neocon, the foreign policy team he has assembled is totally Bush-league.

  131. Mitch
    July 27, 2012 at 7:12 am

    Despite all the Murdoch scandals, the press in the UK still shows life, unlike our press corpse. Here, for example, The Sun headlines “Mitt the Twit”:

    http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/politics/4456840/Wannabe-US-President-Mitt-Romney-in-Olympics-insult-but-David-Cameron-insists-Well-show-you.html#axzz21oe8K8WR

  132. 713
    July 27, 2012 at 7:17 am

    I guess factcheck.org is biased now too.

    OK Mitch, I get it, regardless of the facts presented you will not deviate. Isn’t that what you are accusing others of?

  133. Mitch
    July 27, 2012 at 7:45 am

    Here are some facts to check. I invite anyone interested to check them and report back. One minor suggestion — if you don’t think documents at the Securities and Exchange Commission might be counterfeits — you know, like the President’s birth certificate — you could check with them.

    Was Romney listed as CEO of Bain Capital and various Bain investment funds after 1999?

    Was Romney still the SOLE SHAREHOLDER of Bain Capital and various Bain investment funds after 1999?

    Was Romney paid by Bain Capital after 1999?

    Did Romney attend meetings at Bain Capital after 1999?

    Did Romney attend board meetings at companies taken over by Bain after 1999?

    Now for a subjective question or two…

    If you are the CEO and sole shareholder of a company but play no role in decision making at that company, then what is your actual role and what should you be paid?

    Should someone who reads an SEC filing that lists Millard Fillmore as sole owner and CEO of DemolitionCorp interpret that as a statement that Millard Fillmore has some actual involvement with DemolitionCorp? If not, what MAY you conclude about the relationship between Millard Fillmore and DemolitionCorp.

  134. Plain Jane
    July 27, 2012 at 8:01 am

    Fact Check hasn’t checked all the facts and they certainly haven’t said that Romney didn’t offshore jobs. Only that they have seen no evidence that Romney was running Bain (even though there is proof he attended Bain meetings). and we know what Romney said about “blind trusts being an age old ruse.” This Fact Check only states they have seen no evidence that Romney was running Bain after 1999.

    However, if you will remember, the date he “retired from Bain” became an issue because he claimed he had never offshored jobs and that Bain only offshored jobs after 1999 so it wasn’t his responsibility. That this was a blatant and easily proven lie is detailed in this article.

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/frederickallen/2012/07/12/how-mitt-romney-invested-millions-in-outsourcing/

  135. Mitch
    July 27, 2012 at 8:33 am

    There’s really nothing new to say, I’ll just point people to what I said in the first Mitt Lies thread back on 7/17 8:01. Clearly, some people disagree. There are also people who think the Earth is 6,000 years old and angels are dancing on their shoulders, so I’m not surprised.

    https://humboldtherald.wordpress.com/2012/07/17/mitt-romney-liar/#comment-175904

    Of course politicians lie. It’s just very rare — I can’t remember any instance ever — that a Presidential candidate has gone in front of video cameras and deliberately misquoted his opponent, whose actual words are also on video. Usually, people have shown some evasiveness when trying to distort their opponent’s record, and they’ve usually tried to give themselves wiggle room besides a caught-kindergartner’s assertion along the lines of “but Barry said those very words!”
    I don’t know if this is just a further sign that telling the truth is no longer considered important in the Presidential race, or if it is a sign of some remarkable character flaw on Romney’s part. I lean towards the latter — I think it’s classic executive denial. I’m gobsmacked, but I won’t be too terribly shocked if the national press doesn’t make this a big issue.
    It IS a big issue — Romney would have been disqualified as the GOP Presidential candidate as of today if this were fifty years ago.

    The point I’ve been making from the beginning is not that Romney is the first politician to spin or lie. I’m sure most politicians on both sides play a little lose with the truth in an effort to make their records look better and to lead voters to think they are in agreement.

  136. Plain Jane
    July 27, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Glenn Kessler, WaPo Fact Checker, after giving Romney the benefit of the doubt for months and issuing Pinocchios to Obama for his accusations (no hard evidence), has suspended judgment on anything related to when Romney left Bain because with the contradictory evidence coming out is too ambiguous to determine the facts.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/mitt-romney-and-bain-a-fact-checker-collection/2012/07/19/gJQAsihcwW_blog.html

  137. Mitch
    July 27, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    I more or less agree with “not a fan” that time spent on this blog trying to convince others is time wasted. As for myself, I don’t spend time “here” with any hope of convincing anyone.

    On some topics the facts seem pretty straightforward; I’d say overwhelmingly so. Romney’s behavior is one such topic. The press insists on being pseudo-“objective” by giving lies equal time with truth, rather than simply presenting the objective fact that Romney’s intentional deception was not “business as usual,” but bald-faced lying unlike that seen from the mouths of prior Presidential candidates. It’ hard to know why the press behaves this way, but my best guess is that people in the press do not want to face screams from the Roves of this world that they are pushing a liberal agenda. I think there’s a lot of fear on the part of people in the press, and a lot of herding.

    Especially with such topics, it’s interesting to see how people will try to justify what they think to be “their opinions” (more likely than not the supposed opinions are just pure poison mainlined into them by the tv gasbags) and evade responding to discomforting facts. Refusal to accept that lies were lies happened a few years ago with the Swift Boat ads, but now the phenomenon has moved up the food chain directly to the candidate’s mouth. Amazing. People are apparently unable to hear that the side they prefer is committing objective fraud.

    Among the more interesting folks here are those who insist on commenting at the Herald — which they insist is awful, meaningless, and unread — just so they can call people nasty things while complaining about other people calling people nasty things, and who love to make the paradoxical statement that their opinions are never allowed on the blog.

    I suppose I’m guilty of the nastiness from time to time, and I apologize for that. It sometimes seems to be a fine line between nastiness and clarity that someone is objectively wrong.

    Looking back over the thread, it looks to me like “not a fan” comes on just to call PJ and myself stupid, to state we have no accomplishments, to call liberals mentally ill, and to reassure others that they won’t listen to any response. They also point out that President Obama has never written a paycheck, as if that is an argument that trumps all. They fail to notice that President Obama rose from an extraordinarily humble background to become, as they say, “leader of the free world.” PJ calls “not a fan” a sociopath, which is another four syllable way of calling someone mentally ill, just as “not a fan” had done earlier. So “not a fan” calls PJ a “stupid bitch.”

    The difference between PJ’s comments and “not a fan”‘s is that PJ also attempts to provide a variety of logical arguments, facts, and citations, while “not a fan”‘s total argument comes down to President Obama never having signed a paycheck.

    For nearly four years now, the President has had a Secretary of the Treasury to sign the millions of paychecks he’s ultimately responsible for. So, if nothing else, the “never signed a paycheck” argument is beginning to look like it needs a bit of freshening.

  138. Tim Pestinatikup
    July 27, 2012 at 7:52 pm

    Guess nobody saw John Stewart last night? He interspersed snippets of Romney phrases from speeches with Obama’s words… virtually the same words.

  139. firesidechet
    July 27, 2012 at 10:16 pm

    mamas boys for Obama !

  140. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 7:27 am

    firesidechet’s argument is impeccable.

    Between Chinese HiFi’s ability to click on “Dude, get a life,” firesidechet’s saying you’re a faggot if you support Obama, “not a fan”‘s pointing out Obama’s lack of paycheck-signing, and 713’s assertion that Romney was simply being concise in pointing out Obama’s contempt for our heroic business leaders, I’ve decided Romney was actually telling the truth when he misquoted Obama. Extra points to 713 for not contaminating herself by looking at any of the links others had posted.

    The “conservatives” here at the Herald have done themselves proud, delivering a set of arguments that really cannot be challenged.

    Mostly, though, it was Chinese HiFi’s “Dude, get a life” that convinced me. Thanks, CHF. I love Big Romney.

  141. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 7:38 am

    Mitch,
    I have not commented on Romney’s assertions.

  142. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 7:44 am

    What I took away from the quote is that he is diminishing the value of the hard work, risk-taking, luck, etc. involved in building a business. Maybe we all hear what we want to hear, communication is funny that way.

    Is that a comment on Romney’s assertion, 713?

    Because it sounds to me like a comment on Romney’s assertion.

    Remember, what Romney quoted from Obama’s larger paragraph was “If you built a business, you didn’t build that.” As if someone quoted someone saying “Using asbestos in school construction is dangerous. It’s a crime to build schools if you’re going to use asbestos” as follows: “It’s a crime to build schools.”

  143. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 7:48 am

    Did you miss the part where I said think he is creepy?

  144. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 7:50 am

    I must be confused, I thought Obama said that.

  145. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 7:50 am

    I don’t really give a flying fuck what you think of Romney. My concern here is the big brother approach that has been deployed to convince America that a big fat fucking liar is just business as usual. You’ve joined the Army, 713.

  146. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 7:57 am

    I read the Obama quote, not the romneytized quote. I watched the speech in context on YouTube. To me, he is diminishnig the individual’s role in their business. It has nothing to do with big brother or anything else, it is what the president said and the way he said it.

  147. Plain Jane
    July 28, 2012 at 7:58 am

    Creepy, but she agrees with Romney’s lying assertion about what Obama was really saying.

    7:13 said, “Somebody should alert my boss they have a dishonest idiot running things for them.”

    The first part of the paragraph which qualifies this statement is irrelevant because I believe that she knows she is a stupid liar.

  148. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 8:11 am

    PJ I don’t know if you realize this, but that is actually clever. Bravo!

  149. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 8:16 am

    713,

    This is a waste of time, but it won’t be the first time I’ve wasted my time.

    This is a thread pointing out that Mitt Romney is more willing to utter lies himself than any previous Presidential candidate.

    The example presented is a misquote of the President.

    You asserted that you took away from the President’s larger statement a disrespect for the work people put into their businesses, or at least insufficient respect.

    That is what Mitt Romney was attempting to communicate by misquoting the President.

    It is not a point of view that can rationally be attributed to the larger Obama quote. Yes, you attribute it to the larger quote. I am saying that is irrational. I don’t actually believe you to be irrational — I believe you to be lying.

    By asserting that the President’s meaning aligns with the meaning of Romney’s deceptive misquote, you are defending Romney. That is why you have lied.

    It’s entirely possible that you don’t even realize this is happening.

    Good luck.

  150. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 8:27 am

    The really funny-sad thing about Romney’s criticizing the UK olympics preparations is that he was telling the truth, where the appropriate response would have been diplomatic fudging.

    So Romney does know how to use the truth. He uses it when he thinks it is to his advantage. What he was saying when he criticized the UK was “I did a really great job on the Salt Lake City olympics, and here you may not have done as well.”

    Romney appears to be so extraordinarily self-centered that he has trouble predicting the impact of his word on others. He sees an opportunity to pat himself on the back by criticizing an ally that is uncertain as to how well it has prepared for a world event, so he takes it, not realizing that it will cause general outrage in his host country, or not giving that entirely predictable reaction sufficient consideration.

    Incidentally, we’ll probably never know the truth about Romney’s role in the SLC Olympics, because after Romney promised “complete transparency,” he saw to it that all records were destroyed: http://www.boston.com/news/politics/articles/2012/07/24/after_romney_pledged_transparent_olympics_key_documents_were_destroyed/

  151. Plain Jane
    July 28, 2012 at 8:50 am

    I made a post yesterday that was apparently eaten by WordPress so I’ll try to recreate it.

    The difference between a broken, or not 100% fulfilled, promise and a lie depends on the intentions of the promiser. Making a promise you have no intention of keeping is a lie. Making a promise you intend to keep but (for whatever reason) you can’t keep it is a broken promise, not a lie. For a falsehood to be a lie, the person telling it must know it is a lie. If they tell a falsehood while believing it, it is not a lie but a mistake. Since we all know that Romney has said virtually the same things Obama said on this issue, we know that Romney knows what Obama meant and agrees with him. So Romney is not only lying but a despicable hypocrite. Romney supporters should be angry that he thinks they are too stupid to catch his lies and / or too lazy to do any research,, but maybe that is one of the few things he has right.

    713 seems to believe that saying “no man is an island” and “no one has succeeded without government provided infrastructure, good teachers and a safe and healthy environment” is demeaning the accomplishments of the successful. On the contrary, it’s nothing but stating facts. How demeaning it is to the “little people” to claim giving them any credit for your success is demeaning to you? How fragile are these egos that need not just success but 100% of the credit for that success regardless of the reality? A society that measures success solely by bank balance is sick and the “little people” who accept this as accurate are a huge part of the illness.

  152. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 8:56 am

    Well said, PJ. I should not have called 713 a liar.

  153. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Mitch,
    How is it irrational that I think businesses/business owners or otherwise wealthy pay the bulk of the taxes, which is where the money comes from to build things? Seriously, where do you think the money comes from? Half of the people aren’t paying taxes.

  154. Plain Jane
    July 28, 2012 at 9:20 am

    I don’t qualify as rich by any stretch of the imagination and I pay a lot of taxes every year, including federal income tax. The “half” that pay no taxes is made up of retirees, the disabled, and people who aren’t working. I pay a higher rate of taxes than Mitt Romney so do I get credit for helping to build and maintain the infrastructure, 713? If you want everyone to pay taxes then maybe you should support people who would require businesses pay their employees enough that they owe taxes. This “50% pay all the taxes” meme has been beaten into the ground by the people who offshored the jobs of people who used to pay taxes and / or support the people who gave and took tax breaks to offshore jobs. You can’t have it both ways.

  155. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 9:21 am

    713,

    I could write a pointless essay about the shift of wealth that has taken place over the past forty years resulting in the tax situation your describe. Or about how tax rates on the wealthiest 0.01% have dropped sharply over the past twenty years. Or about the theft of the treasury by the wealthiest 0.01%, and the way they have learned to evade taxes. Or about the insistence of the right wing that social security taxes are not taxes, and that sales taxes are not taxes.

    But poetry, even translated poetry, may get to the point better.

    Bertolt Brecht

    Questions from A Worker Who Reads

    Who built Thebes of the seven gates?
    In the books you will find the name of kings.
    Did the kings haul up the lumps of rock?
    And Babylon, many times demolished.
    Who raised it up so many times? In what houses
    Of gold-glittering Lima did the builders live?
    Where, the evening that the Wall of China was finished
    Did the masons go? Great Rome
    Is full of triumphal arches. Who erected them? Over whom
    Did the Caesars triumph? Had Byzantium, much praised in song,
    Only palaces for its inhabitants? Even in fabled Atlantis
    The night the ocean engulfed it
    The drowning still bawled for their slaves.

    The young Alexander conquered India.
    Was he alone?
    Caesar beat the Gauls.
    Did he not have even a cook with him?
    Philip of Spain wept when his armada
    Went down. Was he the only one to weep?
    Frederick the Second won the Seven Years’ War. Who
    Else won it?

    Every page a victory.
    Who cooked the feast for the victors?
    Every ten years a great man.
    Who paid the bill?

    So many reports.
    So many questions.

    “Fragen eines lesenden Arbeiters” – translated by M. Hamburger
    from Bertolt Brecht, Poems 1913-1956, Methuen, N.Y., London, 1976

  156. 713
    July 28, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Disagreement does not equal me being a liar. Obviously we have a different take on things but rather than listen you question integrity and intellect. I agree with a lot of what you are saying but the fact is wealthy people and corporations pay the bulk of the taxes. They are the ones with the money. If you add in property taxes, special assessments, other fees, the burden is quite high, but his is how things get built. I don’t agree with all the loopholes and special deals and it is a travesty the middle class is disappearing. There must be a better way of redistributing wealth than simply seizing it.

    In order to give, the government must first take away, right?

  157. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 9:53 am

    As I said above, I should not have called you a liar 713.

    We have a different take on things.

    You are exactly correct, in order to give, the government must first take away.

    I’m off to have a nice day, and I wish the same to everyone.

  158. Thorstein Veblen
    July 28, 2012 at 10:05 am

    No, actually seizing it is the best way. Confiscatory tax on wealth over, say, $500 million, estate tax at 100% over, say, $250 million. That should go a long way toward aligning private and communal incentives and behaviors, and equality of opportunity. And enhance democracy.

  159. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 10:09 am

    Yes, Thorstein.

    We agree.

    You are exactly correct: in order to give, the government must first take away.

    I’m off to have a nice day, and I wish the same to everyone.

  160. suzy blah blah
    July 28, 2012 at 11:28 am

    –no surprise that someone with a retarded subjectivity would grab hold of the didactic propaganda spewed from Brecht.

  161. Mitch
    July 28, 2012 at 2:32 pm

    “–no surprise that someone with a retarded subjectivity would grab hold of the didactic propaganda spewed from Brecht.

    Sue Blah Blah
    I once met a girl named Sue Blah Blah
    And suddenly I’ve found
    How wonderful a sound
    can be!

    Sue Blah Blah
    Say it loud and it’s music playing
    Say it soft and it’s almost like praying…

    I’ll never stop saying Sue Blah Blah!!!

    (With apologies to Steven Sondheim.)

    Sue, you are exactly correct.

    I wish you a lovely rest of the day, free of both further didactic propaganda and retarded subjectivity.

  162. suzy blah blah
    July 28, 2012 at 4:20 pm

    -oh come on now Mitch, youre as fat a poet as Romney. You can do better than that. Aquarius has four syllables not three. And, “suddenly I found”? Ew, that is soooo unimaginative. If youre gonna lie, do it with panache. How about, “suddenly there was common ground” … LOL!

  163. Ed Mirer
    July 28, 2012 at 8:48 pm

    Suzy Blah Blah gives me Pan ache!

  164. Plain Jane
    July 28, 2012 at 11:14 pm

    And here I thought it was to the tune of “Maria” from West Side Story. Who knew?

  165. suzy blah blah
    July 29, 2012 at 12:35 am

    there you go again, Jane
    distracting everyone by trying
    to switch the focus from the kernel of truth in my poetic critique
    to the statistical lie of your
    nitpicky trifles

    everyone knows that statistics always lie Jane
    by telling truths
    just as poets always tell the truth
    by lying
    –the west side, the age of aquarius –there’s no more difference between them than there is between Obama and Romney.

  166. suzy blah blah
    July 29, 2012 at 12:53 am

    -panache — from Italian pinnacchio

  167. Plain Jane
    July 29, 2012 at 5:46 am

    More like Pinnochio.

  168. Geppeto
    July 29, 2012 at 8:12 am

    When Mitt is in his seventh house
    And Jupiter maligns Mars
    Lies will guide the politicians
    With noses big as cars

    It is the dumbing of the Age of Pinnochio,
    The Age of Pinnocio-o-o-o-o
    Pinnochio-o-o-o…..Pinnochio

    Disharmony and misunderstanding
    Judgement and distrust abound
    Middle class dreams of living
    Disappearing freedom visions
    All the minds are on libations.
    Pinnochio-o-o-o
    Pinnochio-o-o-o

    (you folks know the chorus)

  169. Plain Jane
    July 29, 2012 at 8:25 am

    Brilliant and almost perfect, Geppetto. But you should insert an “as” between “noses” and “big.” YouTube would be a great venue for it.

  170. Geppeto
    July 29, 2012 at 8:40 am

    Thanks PJ, I will correct that before the cd comes out….

  171. Mitch
    July 29, 2012 at 9:00 am

    I love it too.

    How’s about “…and Jupiter’s maligning Mars…” and maybe “whose noses stretch as long as cars.”

    A youtube would be great, there’s more than enough local talent to pull it off.

  172. suzy blah blah
    July 29, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    -if only we’d let Mitch be our guide

  173. Geppeto
    July 29, 2012 at 3:52 pm

    Good thing Bob Dylan didn’t try and put his lyrics on this blog first, the syllalable cops’d be all over his genius too. Listen Mitch, you ain’t no crooner, or you would know that you can stetch syllalables when yer singin’– this ain’t no Miss Manners Haiku poetry class. The stuff us genii haves to put up with. Soozy knows.
    I hereby cede all copyrights to the “local talent”… and I sincerely hope you can pull off your, ahem, utube.

  174. Geppeto
    July 29, 2012 at 3:56 pm

    ;)

  175. suzy blah blah
    July 29, 2012 at 5:18 pm

    the just and righteous deputy on his knees wearing the emperor’s new clothes
    prayed softly while the queen of the blog pacifist at Pinocchio’s nose

  176. Mitch
    July 29, 2012 at 5:28 pm

    Geppeto,

    A thousand apologies. I was only trying to help, but I forgot what Divas creative types can be.

    I offer only one more suggestion. If local talent is not available, let’s bring on the GLOBOS! And “Let the sun shine” could be “Show the tax returns!” Two. Two suggestions.

  177. suzy blah blah
    July 29, 2012 at 5:31 pm

    should’ve been:
    the just and righteous deputy on his knees wearing the emperor’s new clothes
    watched the queen of the blog pacifist at Pinocchio’s nose.

  178. Geppeto
    July 29, 2012 at 6:44 pm

    Aw Mitch, your 1000 apologies waren’t neccessary… maybe I was too sensitive about my efforts… it was just that I wrote that before coffee in the AM and was overly proud . It can be a collaborative effort with extra verses… and “show the returns” would be a fine chorus.
    Suzy… that’s way more Dylanesque than my lyrics…. cause I don’t understand it all the way.

  179. suzy blah blah
    July 29, 2012 at 7:53 pm

    -Gep, i’m happy cuz everytime
    when suzy jumps into the river
    i get deliciously wet
    in this lovely summer season
    -which is sooooo totally kewl
    unless i’m wearing my spacesuit
    or find old river has dried up
    and quit for some reason . . .

    ie, if you think you understand that which comes from that old spring of poetic creativity, you don’t get it. Understanding poetry is like common ground, a nice ideal but an objectively boring pastime. Splash!

    “In science one tries to tell people, in such a way as to be understood by everyone, something that no one ever knew before. But in poetry, it’s the exact opposite”
    Franz Kafka

  180. Gemini Cricket
    July 29, 2012 at 9:49 pm

    If you watch upon tv
    Makes no difference who you be
    Anything eyes and ears believe
    Can influence you

    Both parties paint lying dreams
    Nothing is ever what it seems
    When you watch upon tv
    The lies are very free

    Faith is blind
    She brings to those who share
    Great delusions of
    Their parties longings

    Like the blood of Mitt is blue
    Big Money will pay to see him through
    When you watch upon tv
    The lies are free.

    (subject to critiquing, corrections, spelling changes and all other aspects of the blog gauntlet)

  181. Plain Jane
    July 30, 2012 at 9:17 am

    I’m more than a little annoyed at the right wing hypocrisy with their claims that the stating the fact that everyone requires help to succeed is somehow denigrating business businrss owners at the same time they are denigrating public employees, community organizers, and American workers in gneral. They want nothing less tha hero worship as the tell us we aren’t worth a living wage or comfortable retirement. Teachers and community organizers, etc, using their expensive educations to improve our society and receiving right wing scorn because they don’t have the same values or system to measure success really pisses me off.

  182. Plain Jane
    July 30, 2012 at 9:19 am

    Posting on a Kindle is aggravating as well. If the typos get in the way of comprehension, I’ll clarify.

  183. Gemini Cricket
    July 30, 2012 at 9:28 am

    O Fine, that damn Geppeto set the bar so high, that second rate songwriters like me get no praise. It’s ok, sniff, I don’t anyone’s approval. I’ll just go chirp somewhere else….. and leave the serious thinkers to their thinking.

  184. Plain Jane
    July 30, 2012 at 10:38 am

    A few minor tweaks and it would be great, Gemini. Some lines have too many syllables to sing comfortably, but easy fixes.

  185. Plain Jane
    July 30, 2012 at 10:54 am

    My suggestions

    When you watch mainstream tv
    Makes no difference who you be
    Anything that you believe
    Can influence you

    Both parties paint lying dreams
    Nothing is just what it seems
    When you watch mainstream tv
    The lies are free

    Faith is blind
    She comforts those who share
    the great delusion of their
    superiority

    Because the blood of Mitt is blue
    Big money will see him through
    When you watch upon tv
    The lies are free.

  186. Bolithio
    July 30, 2012 at 11:25 am

    For Plain Jane:

    Transfixated on the big blue screen
    its your window to the outside
    a melancholy dream
    a medium upon which you build reality
    this episodic currency
    that everybody needs

    somebodies delivery lulls you to sleep
    the man behind the weather map
    the editor in chief
    they control two worlds
    power and disease
    and you cannot supress you curiosity

    but see it’s only entertainment
    superficial urgency
    posterboard mentality
    only entertainemnt
    tightly constrained
    the buzz that remains
    is the story of how we run our lives

    many our the people poor and suffering
    from the lack of coverage
    from the transmission beam
    and if it ever gets there
    you’ll be offended too
    ’cause you cannot distinguish
    chicanery from truth

    see it’s only entertainment
    a superficial episode
    as life continues to unfold
    only entertainment
    controlled and copied
    they’ve planted the seed
    that sprouts into your picture of the world

    can’t someone protect me (turn away, turn away)
    from this electron beam?
    hey you, Mr. FCC
    have you no advice for me?

    See its only entertainment, etc…

  187. Plain Jane
    July 30, 2012 at 11:39 am

    (applause) Bolithio!

  188. Plain Jane
    July 30, 2012 at 11:52 am

    It would be nice if all political advertisements were required to end with an independent fact checker of their claims.

  189. Plain Jane
  190. Gemini Cricket
    July 30, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Very nice Bolithio….

  191. Bolithio
    July 30, 2012 at 7:22 pm

    For the record, I didn’t write that, this guy did:

    Wired Magazine came out with a big exposé of “the new atheists”. I was interviewed for it—and yet I think I was included as a sidebar but not as a main feature and I think the main reason they did that was because they noticed that I wasn’t that happy billing myself as an atheist. To me it just doesn’t say that much; it doesn’t say much about you. Instead I bill myself as a naturalist, which I think says a lot more. Because a naturalist is someone who… first of all—they study natural science, and they have a hopeful message—I think—to send to the world, which is… we can agree on what the truth is… and it has to be through experimentation, verification, and new discoveries, followed by more verification. So… if we can agree on those terms, we can agree that the truth changes, based on new discoveries, and the structure of science is such that you can never be so sure of something, because a new discovery can rework the framework—it can reconstruct the framework of your science and you have to look at the world differently. That makes it a very dynamic and exciting place to be. And if you say “you’re an atheist”, it’s not really saying much about how you came to that conclusion. But if you say “you’re a naturalist”, I think it says something. You’ve reached that point because you’ve studied science, because you believe there’s a fundamental way of looking at the world that is part of a long tradition. And so, I prefer naturalist.

    — Greg Graffin

  192. Plain Jane
    July 31, 2012 at 10:38 am

    Well, Romney didn’t insult Israel on his visit. In fact, he thinks we should find out how Israel can have such a healthy populace for such a low cost. Israel spends 8% of their GDP on health care while we spend 18%. One of his handlers should have told him that Israel has a mandatory universal health care system which has required every Israeli to purchase insurance from one of four HMO’s since 1995. The subscriber pays 40% which is collected via taxes and the Israeli government pays the remaining 60% of costs.

    http://takingnote.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/07/31/if-it-works-in-israel/?hp

  193. not a fan
    July 31, 2012 at 3:33 pm

    Long live the things that piss PJ off. Most of you on here don’t even live in the real world. Just the fact that you spend all this time on this silly blog. Solving nothing. Creating nothing.
    Why don’t you read Obama Care documentation. At least then you would have an idea of the difference between it and what Israel is doing. But no, instead on and on with your own sources. Actually I don’t come on here to insult anyone. Only for laughs. Reading all this senseless garbage is relaxing in some strange way.

  194. not a man
    July 31, 2012 at 3:40 pm

    yeah, u all are so stoopid. If u listened to Fox nooz u wood understand why Romney is writing checks and why Obama is really a Muslim who hates ‘Merica.

  195. Plain Jane
    July 31, 2012 at 3:46 pm

    Seriously, NAF? LOL!

  196. Plain Jane
    July 31, 2012 at 5:23 pm

    I forget, is Forbes one of your sources or one of mine, NAF?

    http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2012/07/30/whiplash-mitt-romney-lavishes-praise-on-israels-socialist-government-controlled-healthcare-system/

    You must be a slow reader, very slow typist and even slower thinker if you think it takes a lot of time to read and post at this blog. There are so many people like you who need remedial critical thinking practice so I think of it as community service of sorts. :=D

  197. Mitch
    July 31, 2012 at 6:43 pm

    not a fan,

    Here at Herald Hypnotics, we’re delighted you find this a relaxing read. Our senseless garbage is carefully engineered to draw in dittoheads; once you are here, the liberal vibrations that are carried on our subcarrier wave gradually do the necessary work.

    You may already be feeling a tiny tickle of doubt about whether Glen Beck is really America’s best analyst. You may already be noticing that Mitt Romney has a bit in common with Mr. Howell. Sit awhile, read, laugh, and enjoy! We’ll do the rest. (BTW, please don’t mute your computer. Just sayin.)

  198. High Finance
    July 31, 2012 at 7:29 pm

    Seriously ? Dude ?

  199. Mitch
    July 31, 2012 at 7:38 pm

    Another day another nickel, CHF.

  200. Ghost of elections present
    July 31, 2012 at 8:21 pm

    Kiss my a**, Heraldos is a sacred place to the, uh, uh, uh, Polish people. Have some respect.

    Unbelievable. Obama is the easiest target in a century, yet this guy can’t aim straight. Shoots himself instead.

    “Kiss my a**, this is a sacred place!!!” Reminds me of the abuser who beats his woman as he shouts ‘chill the fu*k out’.

    The future brings big money to the Mitt. Will it be enough?

  201. Mitch
    July 31, 2012 at 8:24 pm

    Well, ghost, he certainly knows how to bring the Latino community into his big tent. You’ve got to give him that. I’ll bet he’s got more Latino supporters than even Palestinians.

  202. Ghost of elections present
    July 31, 2012 at 8:51 pm

    Latino culture is superior to the Palestinian culture,although both are severely inferior to the Israeli culture, which is superior to the US culture at the present time, although the US could catch up if we were to adopt the Israeli health care system, which is not socialist because I say it isn’t, unlike Obamacare, which is a heinous scar on the healthcare system even though it is modeled on Romneycare, and which serves Latino’s and Palestinians in the US, in addition to Jews and just about everyone else not named above. Hope this clears up any misunderstandings, and if not, kiss my a**.

  203. Ghost of elections present
    July 31, 2012 at 8:52 pm

    Ooops, forgot to say that this is a sacred place. Sorry.

  204. tra
    August 4, 2012 at 2:38 pm

    Latest big fat lie from the Romney camp:

    Romney claims that the Obama administration is trying to strip soldiers of their voting rights.

    http://2012.talkingpointsmemo.com/2012/08/romney-falsely-accuces-obama-campaign-of-trying-to-restrict-military-voting-rights.php?ref=fpblg

  205. tra
    August 4, 2012 at 4:55 pm

    And it turns out, unsurprisingly, that even Romney’s own staff can’t back up his claim:

    “Romney’s spokesman, Ryan Williams, in an interview Saturday could point to no place in Obama’s lawsuit that seeks to restrict the rights of military voters…Romney’s legal counsel, Katie Biber…also did not offer evidence that Obama’s lawsuit would make it tougher for members of the military to vote.”

    http://www.politico.com/politico44/2012/08/obama-camp-romneys-ohio-voting-claim-shameful-131098.html

  206. tra
    August 4, 2012 at 5:00 pm

    Even Fox News isn’t buying into this particular Romney lie:

    “…the lawsuit does not restrict the ability of military personnel to cast their ballots early…”

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012/08/04/obama-campaign-sues-ohio-over-early-voting-law-for-military/#ixzz22bqw859E

  207. tra
    August 4, 2012 at 5:43 pm

    And not even some right-wing blogs are admitting that Romney’s claim is completely, demonstrably, FALSE.

    http://hotair.com/archives/2012/08/03/obama-democrats-suing-to-block-military-voting-in-ohio/

    When even the hard-right-wing bloggers are too embarrassed to perpetuate one of Romney’s blatant lies, you know he’s really “jumped the shark.”

  208. tra
    August 4, 2012 at 5:44 pm

    Oops, I meant to say:

    “And now even some right-wing blogs are admitting…”

  209. Plain Jane
    August 4, 2012 at 6:23 pm

    How insulting to the military to lie to them so cravenly for their votes.

  210. Mitch
    August 4, 2012 at 7:18 pm

    The only way I can make sense of parts of the Romney campaign is that they have research showing that all they have to do is say things and they will have the necessary effect, regardless of what debunking takes place.

    They may be right.

  211. Walt
    August 5, 2012 at 5:39 am

    “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public.”

    “Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want and deserve to get it good and hard.”

    — Henry Mencken

  212. Mitch
    August 8, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Does it surprise me that Bain Capital’s founding money is connected to Salvadoran death squads? No. Does it surprise you?

    Even the Tribune article referred to by the Romney campaign reports that “about $6.5 million of $37 million that established the company came from wealthy El Salvadoran families linked to right-wing death squads.”

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/08/08/mitt-romney-death-squads-bain_n_1710133.html

  213. Plain Jane
    August 16, 2012 at 3:48 pm

  214. Mitch
    August 26, 2012 at 1:31 pm

    Devo weighs in:

  215. Mitch
    September 3, 2012 at 9:21 am
  216. Plain Jane
    September 3, 2012 at 9:48 am

    Isn’t that bizarre? He seems to be a pathological liar who will lie about anything, even things that don’t matter in the slightest.

  217. Mitch
    September 3, 2012 at 10:53 am

    PJ,

    I’m beginning to have suspicions that the GOP approach is to push “they all do it” as a meme, because that meme discourages turnout among people who value decency in government, which automatically skews things Republican. Every time I hear the press compare the Romney campaigns flat out glaring lies with non-lies coming from the Obama campaign, it burns me up.

  218. September 4, 2012 at 7:55 am

    “Since when did Paul Ryan become a liar?”

    http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2012/09/since-when-did-paul-ryan-become-a-liar.html

    And Ryan’s Tampa speech, while pretty dishonest, was not especially so by Ryan’s standards. Here you can see why Ryan must view the sudden attack of the truth squad so bewilderingly. Ryan has been saying things like this, and worse, all along. The bit where he sadly shakes his head and blames President Obama for the failure of the Bowles-Simpson deficit commission that Ryan killed himself has been a staple of the Ryan shtick for two years. Reporters usually bat their eyes and coo sympathetically. Now it has become evidence of his duplicity .

  219. Mitch
    September 12, 2012 at 5:12 pm

    Mitt’s back on top.

    Paul Ryan’s lies are excellent, but a true champion rises to the competition. After moderate success blaming the President for “welfare waivers” that had been requested by Republican governors, Mitt has decided to attack the President for supposedly apologizing to terrorists.

    This one may be the lie too far: apparently, the press feels there are rules about criticizing Presidents when a US embassy has been attacked. Perhaps they’ll notice that the criticism is, um, another lie.

  220. Mitch
    September 13, 2012 at 8:08 am

    A writer at The Daily Kos has perfectly captured my feelings about Mitt Romney:

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/09/12/1131002/-New-Meme-Romney-Smirking-at-America-s-Horrifying-Misfortunes

  221. Nicky
    October 27, 2012 at 3:20 pm

    I’m sick of Romney

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