Home > Uncategorized > Eureka City Council Campaign Debate Thread

Eureka City Council Campaign Debate Thread

Did anyone listen to the debate tonight?  I caught the last part of hit.  Bonino’s closing was all negative, nothing about his own qualifications.  Did he plan it that way, or did it just come out that way and he ran out of time?

But where I had to chuckle was in response to a question about bring business to the city.  Bonino argued that the city needs to have a more business-friendly attitude.  Is he criticizing his fellow conservatives who have run the city since, like, forever?  Well, maybe not back in the 1920s when socialists were elected to office.  But then Bonino went on to accuse Linda Atkins of “having a problem” with business owners.  So apparently businesses are staying away from Eureka because of Linda’s lone vote.

But at least they both support water fluoridation.  And all three candidates support short sea shipping.

Other than that, I heard the question re Prop 30.  Atkins says yes.  Both her opponents say no.

I would especially appreciate reports from anyone who heard the first part of the debate.

  1. JR
    October 2, 2012 at 12:08 am

    Is there a link to the debate for those of us who are “Access” channel deprived?

  2. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 12:14 am

    “Bonino went on to accuse Linda Atkins of ‘having a problem’ with business owners”.

    Bonino must have been referring to Atkins’ lone vote against public funding of the Eureka Chamber of commerce? Why remind the peons watching public TV how their tax dollars are being pissed away in a Depression?

    With half the electorate out to lunch, Bonino knows which side of his bread to butter.

  3. Eric Kirk
    October 2, 2012 at 12:24 am

    JR – it’s probably on the KHSU archives. I’ll look for it tomorrow.

  4. October 2, 2012 at 7:10 am

    I listened to maybe the first 5 minutes on KHSU, then skipped about 20 minutes and watched that last half hour or so on TV. Since both the beginning and last half seemed to run along the same line, I’ll assume the 20 or so minutes I missed was more of the same.

    Not much impressed with what I saw. I did get a few laughs, though.

    Linda Atkins, as in her first debate years ago, was clearly the most comfortable in front of the camera with the best stage presence. This is the second time (the first in the Times- Standard series on the race) that she’s admitted having some problem relating to the business community. While she covered her tracks fairly well, having to bring the issue up shows there likely is a problem in that regard.

    I believe I turned on the TV at the point Bonino said he supported water fluoridation. That put him on my bad side from the start if only because no one, save myself, seems to have any consideration of individual choice in the matter. No surprise there.

    The rest of Bonino’s chat was the predictable talk of bringing business to the area and making Eureka more business friendly. I found it tiresome him bringing up the Marina Center more than once. Then again, all the candidates used the “bring more business to Eureka” line. That’s a common campaign line. How can you not use it?

    My problem with the subject, though, is I’ve never heard one candidate in memory who could cite specific things that could be improved to make things better for business. Are there any specific barriers to businesses that they’d favor changing or removing? I know of two businesses in Eureka- one now out of business- that took 2 years to start up due to issues with zoning or city engineering. How could they make it easier for those businesses to get going quicker? I’ve yet to hear that addressed.

    Of course, all three also used the “I support strong police and fire….” line. The old generic campaign issue. Nothing new there but I would have liked to see some concern about the city’s pension liability- public pensions being at least part of the reason for municipal bankruptcies around the state. That was never brought up. All I heard was the usual falling over each other trying to look good to the police and firefighter unions. Ok, maybe not that bad, but without mention of public pension liability it’s about the same thing.

    Oh, and the Prop 30 question was really off- topic for a City of Eureka candidate forum, whoever called or e-mailed it in. I wouldn’t have expected anyone not to answer the question but would have liked to have them preface their answer with it not being a city issue. That would have shown the candidate having the ability to focus on relevant issues.

    Atkins’ strong support for Prop 30, though, did show her to be a government comes first type of person, so I suppose there was some value in the question being brought up.

    Closing statements from Atkins and Bean were fine, with Atkins again showing her command of the stage and camera. I feel Bonino blew it by bringing up Marina Center and the negativity once again. That didn’t look or sound good from where I was sitting.

    Also interesting was Bonino acting as if he only had one opponent, referring to Atkins as “my opponent”, ignoring Charlie Bean. That’s a common tactic used to marginalize other candidates. I’m not sure it worked for Bonino. It did bring out the us vs. them attitude in Bonino that I usually attribute to Atkins. Whether that plays well with the voters remains to be seen.

    Overall, a typical candidate forum. I’d give any “win” to Atkins, but only for strange presence. On issues they didn’t seem to differ much.

  5. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 7:17 am

    Bonino wants mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients. He also admits his funding comes from Kramer, Arkley, Barnum and Rex Bohn.

  6. October 2, 2012 at 7:31 am

    Fred,

    Do you object to the various requirements that public water supplies not have high quantities of bacteria, and the inevitable expenses such requirements impose upon the taxpayer? After all, I’m sure you can find people who don’t believe bacteria are related to disease. If you look a while longer, I’m sure you can find people who don’t believe bacteria exist; after all, you can’t see them with the naked eye.

    I ended up hearing part of the debate on KHSU, and it was with some relief that I found water fluoridation wasn’t going to be a big controversy in the race.

  7. October 2, 2012 at 7:39 am

    The role of government in regards water supplies is simply to provide potable water, not mass medication.

    To be clear, I’m not all that worried about fluoride in the water myself. I am appalled at those who think nothing of forcing it on everyone else. As I explain in a letter I sent to the Santa Rosa Press- Democrat earlier this year, let people fluoridate their own water if they so choose:
    http://www.pressdemocrat.com/article/20120316/OPINION/120319697

  8. October 2, 2012 at 7:45 am

    Yes, Fred, but why do scientists get to define potable if they are incapable of doing the risk/benefit analysis of fluoridation? I have yet to see bacteria hurt anyone.

  9. October 2, 2012 at 7:50 am

    Everybody must keep this in mind AT ALL TIMES, they (poly ticks) are not just going to politely hand over the keys to the kingdom to a bunch of proverbial farmers with pitchforks (which we all are to them). They are not just going to walk away quietly from the gravy train. They are WAY to used to feeding off of the people’s life force to just give up.
    The choice has to be made, and it’s up to us to make it. Do we really want to create something that is correct and will last, or re-create something that has led everyone to this point? I have seen nothing that’s being done that would show me that it will not lead right back to where we are now.

    THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO STOP PLAYING THE GAME

  10. October 2, 2012 at 8:00 am

    Mitch :
    Yes, Fred, but why do scientists get to define potable if they are incapable of doing the risk/benefit analysis of fluoridation? I have yet to see bacteria hurt anyone.

    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I’ve been sickened by tainted water myself.

    There are those that argue against even chlorination of water. It’s much easier for those that don’t want chlorine in their water, though. You can buy a water filter, as we have at home, that removes chlorine (and just about everything else), or you can just let the water sit in an open container for a certain amount of time.

    Chlorine evaporates over time. Fluoride doesn’t, but, back to the candidate forum…

  11. October 2, 2012 at 8:11 am

    THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO STOP PLAYING THE GAME

    Suicide? No thanks.

    Remember doing nothing is something. We are ‘the game’ and therefore cannot avoid it, at least while living.

    And Mitch, Im probably misunderstanding your post above – but bacteria can really mess a guy up, you know? Ever had an infection? Giardia?

  12. October 2, 2012 at 8:23 am

    bolithio,

    OF COURSE BACTERIA CAN BE HARMFUL. I was pointing out that because they are little, they are invisible. I’ve never seen bacteria cause sickness; I’ve inferred it. I trust the scientists who have decided that injecting chlorine gas into my water supply is a way of protecting me from many potential harms, even though chlorine gas in sufficient concentration will kill me. Similarly, I trust the dentists and scientists who have urged fluoridation of the water supply, and the doctors who have urged certain vaccinations.

    Do I know they are right? No. But I have to put my trust somewhere. So, without constantly giving it much thought, I have to hope that people who go into public health actually want to do the right thing. I occasionally check for self-interest, because I know there are sociopaths who will harm people for a buck, but I long ago satisfied myself that when the vast majority of scientists or dentists or doctors support a process related to their field, it’s a good idea for me to accept the process. That’s because, while the consensus is always evolving and sometimes wrong, it’s usually as correct as we can get at any given time.

  13. Reads a Lot
    October 2, 2012 at 8:25 am

    I watched the whole debate. Bonino disgusted me with his negative approach to Atkins.
    I called a campaign worker for Atkins after the debate and asked if I could help Linda.
    We don’t need more of Virginia Bass’s husband campaign tactics for Arkley, Cramer
    and their oligarchy crowd.

    We have two colleges in the area. It would be smart to partner with them to incite business
    to come, we can educate the employees they need. There should be a full-time employee
    asking business throughout the United States what they need for a successful business
    climate. Then the City of Eureka should step up and provide it.

    There is no need to cry we don’t have adequate transportation. Empty trucks leave this
    area every day. Safeway, K-Mart, Winco, and etc. The person that runs the Chamber of
    Commerce is inadequate in every way. Linda was correct when she didn’t want city
    tax money going to support this continued failure. Most chambers raise their own money.

    Business is not going to be successful here until the non-profits and the county stop
    recruiting high-risk troubled people to come here. These people are used for job security
    for Philip Crandall and his minnons. Very very few of these high-risk people will be good
    employees. The number one thing to provide a business climate, is to clean up this city.
    Make it inviting.

  14. October 2, 2012 at 8:27 am

    Yet no consideration of the people who might be strongly opposed to water fluoridation, huh? You have no problem literally shoving fluoride down their throats? That’s at least one thing you share with your authoritarian colleagues on The Right.

  15. October 2, 2012 at 8:30 am

    bolithio,
    Have any of my posts EVER in any way, shape, or form, referenced suicide? Jesus!
    I’m referring to baby steps. Will the world stop spinning if we aren’t carrying the company card? – D/L. Nope. I stopped that dead/corporate/fiction game three years ago – it ain’t no big D.

    Like a chess game. It begins with a limited amount of moves and as the game proceeds, the moves become virtually limitless.

  16. October 2, 2012 at 8:35 am

    Im with Mitch. Until the anti-fluoride people can provide more evidence of their claims, the ball remains in their court. Its as authoritarian and making a kid eat vegetables before desert.

    Still, Mitch, you have seen it. In the Klamath River.

  17. October 2, 2012 at 8:39 am

    bolithio :
    Im with Mitch. Until the anti-fluoride people can provide more evidence of their claims, the ball remains in their court. Its as authoritarian and making a kid eat vegetables before
    desert. Still, Mitch, you have seen it. In the Klamath River.

    There’s quite a difference between parents making sure their kids eat vegetables and mass medicating entire cities with a potentially toxic substance.

  18. October 2, 2012 at 8:55 am

    “with a potentially toxic substance”

    Fred, you are a poster boy for the expression “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.”

  19. Barbara Groom
    October 2, 2012 at 8:58 am

    I am a business owner and Linda has been very helpful to me. She went out of her way to help me get through the the government’s bureaucratic mess when I was trying to get land for the new brewery as did all the City Council members. She is well aware we need more jobs and businesses.
    I do not feel anyone on the City Council past, present or the future can do what it takes to bring jobs to Eureka. It bothers me that every candidate promises to bring jobs to the area and they have no idea how to do it.

  20. October 2, 2012 at 8:59 am

    Mitch :
    “with a potentially toxic substance”
    Fred, you are a poster boy for the expression “a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.”

    I don’t think so. I’ve heard from others who, back in the day, received bottles of fluoride from the pharmacy with a skull and crossbones on it. I’ve looked into fluoride a lot more than you have, Mitch.

  21. October 2, 2012 at 9:06 am

    Forest Queen says something that EVERYONE should think about and then adopt. It seem Forest Queen knows a little something about fighting bullies.

    The simple truth is the electorate get exactly what they deserve when they keep voting people into office that are self-serving, corrupt, owned, sellout whores and liars. Everyone of these corrupt apologist that are constantly enforcing their support for this broken mess need their pompous screams relegated to the manure pile. It’s about time people started dealing with reality – what people DO and NOT what they say. When you start putting decent people into office that are proven to respect Law and CAN’T be bought, then and only then, will things begin to change for the better. Whining about the crap you keep dumping into your bed only make YOU stink.

    Forest Queen :
    Everybody must keep this in mind AT ALL TIMES, they (poly ticks) are not just going to politely hand over the keys to the kingdom to a bunch of proverbial farmers with pitchforks (which we all are to them). They are not just going to walk away quietly from the gravy train. They are WAY to used to feeding off of the people’s life force to just give up.
    The choice has to be made, and it’s up to us to make it. Do we really want to create something that is correct and will last, or re-create something that has led everyone to this point? I have seen nothing that’s being done that would show me that it will not lead right back to where we are now.
    THE ONLY WAY TO WIN IS TO STOP PLAYING THE GAME

  22. October 2, 2012 at 9:07 am

    I’m not saying fluoride is not potentially toxic, Fred. Lots of things that are extremely important in modern health care are potentially toxic. So are lots of delicious foods that people eat regularly.

  23. October 2, 2012 at 9:08 am

    So is your house. It’s filled with radon. So is your cell phone — it emits radiation, even more than the “terribly dangerous” smart meters that are hazardous to growers. So are your lightbulbs. So are your candles.

  24. October 2, 2012 at 9:16 am

    Bolithio says: “Remember doing nothing is something. We are ‘the game’ and therefore cannot avoid it, at least while living.”

    “We are ‘the game’ is what makes YOU responsible and accountable for what your elected government does from top to bottom. So when your so-called elected representatives don’t hear anyone except their corrupt partner’s moronic beliefs and ideologies, we (those doing nothing) can always find the people that enabled and supported them.

  25. October 2, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Mitch :
    So is your house. It’s filled with radon. So is your cell phone — it emits radiation, even more than the “terribly dangerous” smart meters that are hazardous to growers. So are your lightbulbs. So are your candles.

    Yep, and with the exception of radon, you have choices in all of those. I’m simply suggesting you take into consideration the concerns of those who don’t want fluoride in their water. There’s plenty of other sources of fluoride you already consume. Your teeth aren’t going to fall out if they stopped fluoridating water.

    Those that don’t want it, shouldn’t have to drink it. If you want fluoride, fluoridate your own water.

  26. October 2, 2012 at 9:17 am

    Ok. Back to the candidate forum…

  27. October 2, 2012 at 9:23 am

    Mitch,

    Dr. Rebecca Carli offers a $10,000 reward to any one who can prove vaccines are beneficial to humankind. Likewise, there’s been a generous reward to anyone who can prove we have to pay income tax. Doesn’t matter which toxin we’re focusing on – it’s all poison (physically or mentally) to the human body.

    “Ring of Power” is four parts, and brings things into focus, Michael Tsarion’s “Origins of Evil,” Dr. Len Horowitz latest points the way. One of the newer is “Thrive.”

    Did anyone else look to the sky last Sat. afternoon, and witness the start of Humboldt’s seasonal (end of Sept. to beginning of June) toxic air-crap spraying? The plane came from the west, spraying twin streams, and proceeded east. About 15 mins. later, having made a U turn, and more to the north, made a second fly-by, east to west.

  28. October 2, 2012 at 9:39 am

    I’m with Fred on this one Mitch.

    If you had had friends many years ago who had children with “sudden” autism, as well as friends/family dying of so-called ‘cancer’ – you would have hopefully investigated and done your due diligence then. The reports are all in. The messengers have all spoken.

  29. October 2, 2012 at 9:47 am

    The ‘fluoride’ being discussed here is the by-product of aluminum. 80% comes from China.

    We’re being poisoned – what is there to not get?

  30. Linda Atkins
    October 2, 2012 at 9:48 am

    My opponent says I have magically delayed a development in Eureka and is trying to con
    voters about it. Of course the story is not true, but the important question is why are my
    opponent and his public relations hatchet crew being allowed to get away with this? They’re
    losing so now they’re making things up in a desperate attempt to take over complete control
    of city hall. But why? What is so valuable to them that they would risk being exposed as
    liars and cheats? Those are the questions that must be asked now, because if we wait too
    long it will be too late.

  31. October 2, 2012 at 9:49 am

    …we (those doing nothing) can always find the people that enabled and supported them.

    Well thats convenient Joe! So doing nothing exempts you from responsibility in society. I love the Apathy Party!

    Forest Queen, you got Dr Rebecca’s phone number? I want to ask her how much she misses small pox and polio. Eradication of small pox alone has saved 5 million people. Wheres my 10K!!!!!

  32. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 10:05 am

    Forest Queen :
    We’re being poisoned – what is there to not get?

    Apparently one thing people “don’t get” is the simple concept that toxicity depends on dosage. Alcohol can be “poisonous” and kill you if you drink enough of it, fast enough, but one drink a day is never going to poison an otherwise healthy adult. Similarly, flouride, at a high enough dosage, can be rat poison, and at the same time it can be harmless when it’s at a very low dosage, like it is when diluted in millions of gallons of drinking water.

  33. October 2, 2012 at 10:07 am

    Narration,

    Is this where the word ‘Carborundum’ comes in?

  34. Mitch
    October 2, 2012 at 10:08 am

    For anyone interested in using some fruits of their tax dollars, here’s what the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention have to say about fluoridation:

    http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/index.htm.

    The CDC is a very large group of government-paid scientists that really have no self-interest in fluoridation — they keep getting paid regardless of whether they recommend fluoride or not, but would get into serious trouble if they turned out to be supporting something responsible for major illness.

    The original opponents of fluoridation were members of the John Birch Society convinced that fluoridation was a communist plot to destroy America. Since then, the concern has spread to other parts of society that, for whatever reason, don’t trust the government on this issue.

  35. Mitch
    October 2, 2012 at 10:12 am

    The state of California has also put information up: short answers, with links to longer ones:

    http://www.cdph.ca.gov/programs/Pages/FluoridationFactsandFiction.aspx

  36. October 2, 2012 at 10:23 am

    I can ‘see’ five good-hearted people who I’d cast a vote for (by applause in a large field – or by Affidavit) on these blogs. Hell, I’d be extatic if someone got Humboldt Buttermilk back on the shelves. Just as I figured out (Cure Tooth Decay by Ramiel Nagel) how important it is for teeth – whoosh, it was gone.

  37. Mitch
    October 2, 2012 at 10:24 am

    I apologize to anyone who feels I’m being a pest, but this issue of public health is fairly significant to me, so I’d really like to respond to the anti-fluoridation crew further.

    One of the very few published articles I can find in a sciencey-sounding publication is by Michael Blaylock, a retired neurosurgeon. If you check here:

    http://www.skepdic.com/blaylock.html

    and here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russell_Blaylock

    it might lead you to wonder if Dr. Blaylock is another example of someone suffering from political paranoia, possibly combined with self-interest, and letting it influence their behavior.

  38. Salzman's Cat
    October 2, 2012 at 10:26 am

    Anonymous :
    Bonino wants mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients. He also admits his funding comes from Kramer, Arkley, Barnum and Rex Bohn.

    Of course he’s being backed by Arkley et al., why else would his name be all over Rex’s old balls?

  39. October 2, 2012 at 10:53 am

    bolithio,
    Perhaps before you post mis-information you could spend some time researching. Evidence for the claim, in all cases, is where we are.

    Vaccination i$ not immunization. Vaccines deplete your natural immune system. People do not need vaccinations. There are no reasons, medical, scientific, historical, legal or otherwise to vaccinate. Vaccinations are for non-intelligent beings who have brains but do not use them – non-critical, non-analytical, believers.

    Dock tors use weakened and/or killed pathogens, introduced into the human body to allegedly produce immunity to an infectious (designer) disease. PEOPLE! THE VACCINE IS THE INFECTIOUS DISEASE! The word ‘vaccine’ is rooted in the Latin word ‘vaccnus’ which means cow. So, in fact, you are cowifying your baby or child or self. If your children are banned from attending the public fool system – so what? Look around you, there are millions of “educated” adults who are without work. It is the open sore of a cow, infected cows that is used in vaccines. The mucus and pus from the open cow’s sores and lesions, as well as blood, not to mention the many other foreign substances. Foreign substances WILL NOT strengthen any so-called immune system. It will GREATLY impair it. Dr. Hilda Clarke said that she, “Never saw cancer in people who were not vaccinated.”

    Forced vaccination, or ‘vaccine rape’ is really a crime just as surely as if someone stabbed you with a poison needle against your will. In fact, it is just that! If you doubt that such unconstitutional orders are lurking very near, please visit: jackmclamb.org or deathbyvaccination.com

  40. Mitch
    October 2, 2012 at 11:02 am

    Once again, for another opinion, there’s always the CDC:

    http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/parents/vaccine-decision/prevent-diseases.html

  41. October 2, 2012 at 11:05 am

    Anonymous :

    Forest Queen :
    We’re being poisoned – what is there to not get?

    Apparently one thing people “don’t get” is the simple concept that toxicity depends on dosage.

    Not to start an argument where one isn’t needed, but I’ll beg to differ: The most troublesome thing about this fluoride thing and what people “don’t get”, is the matter of personal choice.

    We can quibble about dosage all we want, but if someone doesn’t want pre- fluoridated water, they shouldn’t have to jump through hoops to get it just plain water. If you want something added to your water, add it yourself.

    It’s the personal choice issue where I suppose I differ with near everyone here.

  42. October 2, 2012 at 11:15 am

    Fred Mangels,

    You are 100% correct – IT’S ALL ABOUT CHOICE.

    Who will keep the truth alive if not us?

  43. Movie Trailer Voice Guy
    October 2, 2012 at 11:17 am

    In a world…where evil doctors NEEDLE-RAPE your CHILDREN with MUCUS and PUS from the OPEN SORES and LESIONS of cows…and nefarious PUBLIC HEALTH NAZIS pour RAT POISION in your WATER…all protected by ADMIRALTY judges operating under the MARTIAL LAW of GOLD- FRINGED FLAGS…one WOMAN fights back…FOREST QUEEN, THE MOVIE…coming soon to a delusional rant near you…

  44. October 2, 2012 at 11:27 am

    You don’t differ with me on that issue (choice), Fred.

  45. October 2, 2012 at 11:28 am

    whoa forest queen, you lost me there. Public fool system?, seriously?

    And i think your confused about vaccination (not surprised based on your posts today). Polio, whooping cough, meningitis – all controlled by vaccines.

  46. October 2, 2012 at 11:28 am

    Bolithio says: “Remember doing nothing is something. We are ‘the game’ and therefore cannot avoid it, at least while living.”

    Some reason Bolithio you are incapable of following your own logic? What do you say there? “Doing NOTHING IS DOING SOMETHING.” Where does anything I say here exempt “me” from any responsibilities? You need to get out of your head and read what people say NOT what you think they say.

  47. October 2, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Movie Trailer Voice Guy :
    In a world…where evil doctors NEEDLE-RAPE your CHILDREN with MUCUS and PUS from the OPEN SORES and LESIONS of cows…and nefarious PUBLIC HEALTH NAZIS pour RAT POISION in your WATER…all protected by ADMIRALTY judges operating under the MARTIAL LAW of GOLD- FRINGED FLAGS…one WOMAN fights back…FOREST QUEEN, THE MOVIE…coming soon to a delusional rant near you…

    ROFL!

    I can hear Don LaFontaine reading this in my head!

  48. October 2, 2012 at 11:39 am

    And people ask me for examples of who discriminates and denies rights in this town?

    Linda Atkins :
    My opponent says I have magically delayed a development in Eureka and is trying to con
    voters about it. Of course the story is not true, but the important question is why are my
    opponent and his public relations hatchet crew being allowed to get away with this? They’re
    losing so now they’re making things up in a desperate attempt to take over complete control
    of city hall. But why? What is so valuable to them that they would risk being exposed as
    liars and cheats? Those are the questions that must be asked now, because if we wait too
    long it will be too late.

  49. October 2, 2012 at 11:39 am

    MT, MT, MT (empty) Voice Guy,

    Maybe (doubtful) you can view the movie from your ready-and-waiting FEMA camp. Like I said, lead, follow or get out of the way. On a scale of, oh 1 to 2, who do you beLIEve cares what your opinion is of my posts? What is your position/purpose? I am nobody special.

    NOTHING would make me happier than to be 100% wrong – I’d win either way.

    IMHumboldtOpinion – you sir, are the delusional one. Keep looking at the shadows on the wall of Plato’s Cave, from your flat-world view.

    Carborundum

  50. anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 11:40 am

    There is a whole lot of information about the problem with force fed fluoride. Ever read of all the lobbying that goes on to keep this product viable? $$$$$ for the company that produces it. We have it in toothpaste for out teeth, we adults do not need to ingest it.

  51. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 11:52 am

    I’ll see your FEMA Camp, and raise you two Black Helicopters and an Invisible Pink Unicorn..

  52. What Now
    October 2, 2012 at 11:57 am

    “Bonino wants mandatory drug testing for welfare recipients.”
    Florida spent a small fortune on that very program and found that positive test results showed he recepients to be far below any other subject group.
    The Florida legislature later attempted to add peace offices to that mandatory testing and they howled and screamed that they “didn’t want to be assumed guilty until proven innocent”.
    Given the behavior of local law enforcement, would’t be a bad idea to institute that program here.
    Or perhaps to all elected officials.
    That would be certain to clear the decks.

  53. October 2, 2012 at 11:58 am

    Now that IS funny – thanks Anonymous.

  54. October 2, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Although doing nothing is indeed something, its unreasonable to believe that sitting in a cave is going to effect society in any meaningful way – even if your cave has internet and you talk to people on-line.

  55. Plain Jane
    October 2, 2012 at 12:22 pm

    The problem I have with fluoridated water is that dosage can’t be controlled. The dosage received depends on how much water you drink, how much is in the water of products you buy, how much if any is removed from bottled water, etc. Medicating people in their water, as opposed to purifying it which has obvious benefits, seems unnecessary and potentially dangerous. People can use fluoridated toothpastes and rinses if they want.

    I read years ago about the problem with the “scientific evidence” for fluoride. In short, giving credit for improved dental health to fluoridated water is unsupported. Dental health improved with dental education, wider availability of dental care, etc. Areas with high concentrations of natural fluoride in their water prior to fluoride being added to water in other areas had no better dental health than areas without fluoridation and their dental health improved with better dental care as well. Their conclusion was that fluoride waste was a problem looking for a disposal solution.

  56. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 12:26 pm

    “My opponent says I have magically delayed a development in Eureka and is trying to con
    voters about it. Of course the story is not true”

    Well, Joe is wrong about you delaying the development; what he should have said is that you tried and failed to delay the development, and then the Coastal Commission came in and delayed it for you.

    ” but the important question is why are my
    opponent and his public relations hatchet crew being allowed to get away with this?”

    Who exactly is his pr hatchet crew? and what are they getting away with? You’ve made incorrect claims of accomplishments yourself, such has securing funding for recent city projects. Newsflash, Ms Atkins, you didn’t secure anything. Why are YOU being allowed to get away with specious claims?

    “They’re losing”

    I don’t know about “They’re” losing, but I agree that Joe Bonino is losing, and I believe you will win your reelection bid comfortably.

    “so now they’re making things up in a desperate attempt to take over complete control
    of city hall. But why?”

    uhmmmm, paranoid much? Just because the other councilpeople are not far left greenocrats doesn’t mean they march in lockstep.

    “What is so valuable to them that they would risk being exposed as
    liars and cheats? Those are the questions that must be asked now, because if we wait too
    long it will be too late.”

    So again, who is the proverbial “them”, and what are they lying and cheating about? If you have proof they are both lying and cheating, then please, put it out there, both on this blog and in the press – otherwise its nothing but mudslinging on your part. Were you “lying” when you claimed to secure funding for a project that was secured before you were even on the council?

    What about you going down to the courthouse and warning the Occupy protestors that a police raid was forthcoming early that morning? Had the raid gone through despite your poor judgement, the potential for someone getting hurt, either one of the LEOs or the Occupiers was exponentially raised. At best, you excercised very poor judgement. At worst, you cavelierly endangered lives.

    So much for being an avid supporter of law enforcement.

  57. October 2, 2012 at 12:31 pm

    Still doesn’t get it. Pathetic! If nothing is something THEN something must be getting done. You need to borrow Ernie Branscomb’s “reality” hammer. An after-thought: People around during Jesus’ lifetime didn’t think he’d done much either, except get himself killed. We all know how that worked out – So I’ll take my chances.

    bolithio :
    Although doing nothing is indeed something, its unreasonable to believe that sitting in a cave is going to effect society in any meaningful way – even if your cave has internet and you talk to people on-line.

  58. What Now
    October 2, 2012 at 12:34 pm

    COOL!
    A regular contributor is an aspiring messiah!

  59. Eric Kirk
    October 2, 2012 at 12:35 pm

    For me the question to ask Joe Bonino is why he thinks the city is currently unfriendly to business. Is it really about Linda’s single vote?

    Also, to correct Fred, Linda did not say she had an issue with business owners. She said that some of the very conservative business owners have a problem with her because of the policies she advocates. She also has plenty of business support.

  60. What Now
    October 2, 2012 at 12:36 pm

    Eric, that’s cruel!
    You know damned well Fred falls apart when confronted with hard facts and evidence.

  61. October 2, 2012 at 12:46 pm

    PJ.

    Thanks for sharing your opinion, which I respect. But I’ve got to go with the overwhelming scientific consensus on this one, the same way I’ve got to go there with respect to evolution, climate change, the carcinogenicity of tobacco, and so on. It’s not that I’m an expert, but I recognize that I have no alternative (that seems reasonable to me) other than to listen to the largest group of people in whom I feel I can trust.

  62. October 2, 2012 at 1:48 pm

    Mitch :
    PJ.

    It’s not that I’m an expert, but I recognize that I have no alternative (that seems reasonable to me) other than to listen to the largest group of people in whom I feel I can trust.

    And, of course, force your version of what is right on everyone else, whether they like it or not?

  63. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 1:49 pm

    Eureka’a business community is crowded with religious fundamentalists, including Roman Catholics like Bonino, Jager et al, who are a Republican minority — and who have ruled the City for many years. The election system is rigged in favor of big money and repeat players.

    I am surprised some of our flouride-minded correspondents seem to have missed Bonino’s support for urine-testing those who receive government services. Who would be next? Would he require drug-testing to go the the city’s gym? golf? Pee to play? Cutting off someone’s food and shelter over a drug problem might get rid of some homeless people, but would the same technique help attendance at city functions, or hurt it? And whose to say what would be next? Lordy.

    Eureka has a long tradition of electing a liberal now and then. People knows it keeps the rest of ’em honest. If for no other reason, Go Linda.

  64. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 1:50 pm

    Did I say honest? At least more careful…

  65. October 2, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Eric Kirk :
    For me the question to ask Joe Bonino is why he thinks the city is currently unfriendly to business. Is it really about Linda’s single vote?
    Also, to correct Fred, Linda did not say she had an issue with business owners.

    That goes along the line with what I wrote: What specifically makes the city “not friendly” to business and what specific things can we do to make it friendlier? I’ve been hearing the friendly business thing for some time, without specifics. I’ve also yet to hear of any specific steps having been taken to make the city business friendly, and I’m speaking of over a period of decades.

    As far as what Linda said, I’m saying that her bringing up the issue twice, albeit in response to what others have said, gives credence to the accusation that she does have an issue there. Or at least that’s the perception.

  66. October 2, 2012 at 1:54 pm

    Fred,

    Public health officials are constantly needing to make decisions about risk/benefit tradeoffs. There are all sorts of ways in which people’s opinions are “forced” on you. The CHP will ticket you if you speed. You have to pay for shoulders on highways, even though you probably don’t even use them.

    The overwhelming consensus is that infants and children benefit from the presence of fluoride in water, and the rest of us are not harmed.

    Are you upset that we’re forced to drink Vitamin D in milk?

  67. October 2, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    Anonymous :

    I am surprised some of our flouride-minded correspondents seem to have missed Bonino’s support for urine-testing those who receive government services. Who would be next?

    I don’t know that I’ve ever heard of anybody proposing urine testing to use various city services. Thus, it’s not a pertinent issue in the city council race. The same could be said for the Prop 30 question.

    Your comments do give credence to my position that candidates shouldn’t go astray and comment on issues that aren’t within the purview of the position they’re running for. Here we have Bonino taking heat for a comment made on an issue that shouldn’t have anything to do with the job of city councilman.

    Why pick a fight when you don’t have to? Doesn’t make good political sense to me.

  68. October 2, 2012 at 2:10 pm

    Mitch :
    Fred,
    Are you upset that we’re forced to drink Vitamin D in milk?

    That’s the Ed Denson style argument for authoritarianism over individual choice: You must accept all government aggression against you if you want any benefits from government. To your way of thinking there isn’t any area of our lives that shouldn’t be controlled by government. You’ve made that more than clear, thus I don’t know I have anything more to say to you.

    Oh, except, milk already has vitamin D in it. The reason all that extra crap is added to California milk is to give California producers a near monopoly on the sale of milk in the state. Even the Center for Science in the Public Interest- hardly a libertarian friendly organization- has said there’s no appreciable benefit to adding Vitamin D and non- fat milk solids to our milk.

    This is why you pay so much more for milk in California. It’s not worth the hassle for most dairies to add a bunch of useless stuff to milk so they don’t try and market their milk here. There’s been efforts to change that requirement but they always go nowhere as the dairy industry is just too strong.

  69. October 2, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    “The overwhelming consensus is that infants and children benefit from the presence of fluoride in water, and the rest of us are not harmed.”

    This kind of brainwashed logic is what comes from what’s called the “herd” mentality. So the question I ask is: “What’s next, forced artificial insemination?”

  70. October 2, 2012 at 2:12 pm

    Hey, Movie Trailer Voice Guy,

    One WOMAN, and one MAN fight back.

  71. October 2, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    One WOMAN and two MEN fight back. It’ll make for easier plot development, for sure.

  72. October 2, 2012 at 2:14 pm

    “Here we have Bonino taking heat for a comment made on an issue that shouldn’t have anything to do with the job of city councilman.”
    Show his thinking though, Fred.

  73. October 2, 2012 at 2:26 pm

    @ FM: “Or at least that’s the perception.” It’s YOUR perception……anyway. Don’t be shoving things down people’s throats, I thought you were against such.

  74. October 2, 2012 at 3:18 pm

    Joe Blow :

    Show his thinking though, Fred.

    Just as Atkins’s position on Prop 30 showed hers.

    The point I was trying to make was that it’s best to just stick to issues pertinent to the job. I’ve had many people tell me that doesn’t matter, but here we have a good example. Sure, most that are going after him for the remark on urine testing wouldn’t vote for him, anyway, but there’s always the chance that his remark could run someone on the fence in the election the wrong way.

    Running for office you’ll have no problem getting on people’s opposite side of the issues. Why bring in potential conflict when it has nothing to do with the job you’re seeking?

  75. October 2, 2012 at 3:21 pm

    Felix :
    @ FM: “Or at least that’s the perception.” It’s YOUR perception……anyway.

    It’s obviously the perception of a number of people. Otherwise, she wouldn’t have had to bring it up, twice, which is my point.

  76. October 2, 2012 at 3:26 pm

    You make a good point if all you want is the status quo – corrupt, bought government. How you think shows what kind of a person you are. I’d say that has everything to do with how and why you vote. No one was interested (mostly) in what kind of a person Obama was/is and look what’s happened? Incidentally, I’d say character and worth as an individual is an issue. But, heck I’m really not arguing with you. Time to concentrate on substance rather than fantasy.

  77. Perspective
    October 2, 2012 at 3:31 pm

    If Bonino gets his wish and welfare reccipients are drug tested, what does he plan to do with their children? Let them starve? Some Fracking Christian HE is!

  78. October 2, 2012 at 3:32 pm

    Movie Trailer Voice Guy,
    We all have a default response to stress, and that’s where I went in my reply to you – and I apologize. Stress for me now is – no transportation for 15+ days, smoke gettin low. and dealing with dial-up connection – this is my excuse and I’m stickin to it.
    Are you looking for more facts, or to decipher fact from fiction?

  79. October 2, 2012 at 3:35 pm

    When I read this: “You must accept all government aggression against you if you want any benefits from government. (#68 )” I thought about this comment: “What about you going down to the courthouse and warning the Occupy protestors that a police raid was forthcoming early that morning? Had the raid gone through despite your poor judgement, the potential for someone getting hurt, either one of the LEOs or the Occupiers was exponentially raised. At best, you excercised very poor judgement. At worst, you cavelierly endangered lives.

    So much for being an avid supporter of law enforcement. (# 56)”

    So much for how people think and believe – when it comes right out of the Dark Ages.

  80. Anonymous
    October 2, 2012 at 4:02 pm

    By the way, folks, there’s not enough Vitamin D in milk to do an adult a lick of good. It’s all milk industry propaganda. Better get some sunshine, or take a supplement. I learned that from a medical specialist after a long lifetime of consuming mass quantities of milk in the mistaken belief that I was protecting my bone health. It was all a lie. Now I must take Vitamin D supplements to fight against osteoporosis. Thanks for nothing, you damn dirty dairy ranchers!

  81. Not a believer
    October 2, 2012 at 4:08 pm

    I have come to the conclusion that there are regular meetings of the Church of the AMA/ADA/CDC somewhere in this area. There are so many worshippers in this faith.
    Cognitive dissonance is the main requirement.
    Your online search for information about water fluoridation could not have been shallower Mitch.
    There is only one regulatory agency that regulates contaminants in water and that is the EPA where the employee unions have several times called for a moratorium on community water fluoridation because of the science they have looked at and their first hand knowledge of how politics have utterly co-opted scientific integrity on this issue. If you think that the CDC’s little water department, with maybe 20-30 Master of Public Health and a few Phds are more of an authority than the 10,000 plus EPA scientists, or that they don’t tow the dogma line at the CDC to keep their jobs…. I would disagree.
    PJ was succinctly right on at 12:22! As well as a violation of medical ethics (unregulated dosage), it doesn’t do what is claimed in any significant way, there is increasing evidence of harm. It is clearly a toxic waste disposal system foisted on a gullible and trusting public who think of health industry authorities as religious figures not to be questioned.

  82. Not a believer
    October 2, 2012 at 4:29 pm

    Harvard School of Public Health on Fluoride and Childrens IQ ; and “There is an association of vascular fluoride uptake with vascular calcification and coronary artery disease”.

  83. Plain Jane
    October 2, 2012 at 4:52 pm

    Vitamin D is necessary for calcium absorption.

  84. October 2, 2012 at 5:04 pm

    Not a believer,

    Here is a 2011 document from the EPA. It doesn’t sound like the EPA is opposed to fluoridation of drinking water supplies. Does it sound that way to you?

    http://water.epa.gov/lawsregs/rulesregs/regulatingcontaminants/sixyearreview/upload/2011_Fluoride_QuestionsAnswers.pdf

  85. October 2, 2012 at 5:07 pm

    Forest Queen :
    Vaccination i$ not immunization. Vaccines deplete your natural immune system. People do not need vaccinations. There are no reasons, medical, scientific, historical, legal or otherwise to vaccinate. Vaccinations are for non-intelligent beings who have brains but do not use them – non-critical, non-analytical, believers.

    Yikes, Forest Queen. The only vaccine that was ever made from cow sores was possibly Jenner’s original innoculation against smallpox. In the 1800s the serum was changed to vaccinia. Smallpox was a terrible disease which brutally killed very many – and without being a milkmaid self-immunizing by handling cows with cowpox, humans had little or no immunity for themselves.

    There are a lot of other things humans very provably need immunization against, as bolithio notes. The usual principle is now very well understood: to sensitize the body’s immune system to indicators of the disease, by introducing _NON_-infective material. Perhaps billions of lives have been saved this way, not to speak of discomfort.

    Vaccines are decidedly not, categorically not, definitely not the disease.

    Forest Queen, I like your independence and your good intent on many things. I think it’s important to be very careful in distinctions, where you may suggest specific radical changes. Some amount of what humans have been developing and doing in recent centuries has been very good — even when we can also see how some of it has been going quite off the tracks.

    Why does that happen? Lots of things can happen in a truly complex world, which nature is itself, before we begin to speak of humans. Complexity science (santafe.edu a primary source I think you’d be very interested to look at, but now there are many) describes and works very hard to improve our abilities to understand, plan to imaginatively attract and otherwise regulate for the positive, and improve what we do.

    What we humans can do more individually is work on our attitudes, which you often speak about, and on our knowledge and perceptions which can be used to guide those attitudes.

    No one knows it all, nor will, and I believe the best tracks are in understanding of a reasonable pace of adaption. Discussion as on these forums can have very good effects on this; it’s something I often feel here beyond my own immediate emotions. So long as we are as careful as in any other way, not to throw out babies with bathwater.

    Babies have been a prime victim of smallpox, just to return to the first example. I was shocked in wandering around old churchyards when first living in England, where the tombstones declare the families, and the ages. Now, that terror is largely gone, because of vaccination.

    Best thoughts your direction, as ever, and hope you are enjoying enough in quite moments even with issues in the days.

  86. October 2, 2012 at 5:08 pm

    For anyone who wants to cut to the chase, here’s an extract from the 2011 EPA document above:

    20) Is my child getting an appropriate amount of fluoride from drinking water and tooth brushing?
    Yes, if you and your child are among the 196 million Americans who receive their water from an optimally fluoridated community water system (0.7 to1.2 milligrams per liter) and you follow guidelines in your child’s tooth brushing, then it is highly unlikely that your child is receiving too much fluoride.

    The EPA is concerned that some water has too much naturally occurring fluoride, and that some water systems may over-fluoridate. The concern is not about IQ or autism, but about dental pitting over a lifetime.

  87. October 2, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Mitch, thanks for the EPA flouridation FAQ paper, I read it, and it makes clear what science they are following — to do their job of limiting before any threshold of damage – at 4 mg/l. Their work sets the level which communities must protect against, whether the source of flouride is from sources of natural water (mineral deposits in rock, etc.), or from introduced flouride.

    I had a look at the CDC’s matching public announcements, which as the above notes indicate, are at 0.7mg/l threshold for best _benefit_ against tooth decay, which has been very well established. Here’s a page which lists some science sources, not all of which are in the US, which should help understanding.

    http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/safety/systematic.htm

    I can very well understand the suspicions which grow of government activity at its worst — or indeed any group of people at their worst. When a bureaucracy is dealing with something it doesn’t know how to manage, perhaps because it refused to initially prepare to manage, such as the New Orleans disaster, this can be well documented and well justified.

    The unfortunate thing happens when such suspicions become free-wheeling, and attach to issues such as fluorides or well-proven vaccines. Visits for drill work at the dentist aren;t pleasant, and bad teeth can definitely interfere with education or any thinking task for children or older. Cholera, smallpox, etc. — not much really needs to be reminded of these, at least for anyone with a calm and an ability to read.

    So many important things to work for, and yes, to keep an eye on also. Having had something to do with professions of solving problems, I know my own intuition warns very strongly against paths that have to do with negativity, almost always. What works, rather, is to build anew, to create approaches which work better. That’s our good challenge, especially in these times.

    Speaking this way it is not far at all from where artists, as they say, set a problem, as compared to finding a problem. That’s how they too get a result: make a frame where they can work. Often enough its a help to existing, ‘found’ problems as well.

  88. grackle
    October 2, 2012 at 5:41 pm

    It’s a real shame you decided to hijack your own thread, Mitch. Well, it is your prerogative but maybe you could change the title to conspiracy theories or tilting at windmills or something. The city council election actually does deserve some attention. I would be interested if anybody has anything useful to say in regard to job creation. It seems doubtful. Way up thread someone nailed it that that and police/fire support are pretty much empty slogans probably because no one has anything useful to say, much like poor old Rex and poor old Ryan, who are shocked that they might be required to have a dim understanding of their job.

  89. October 2, 2012 at 6:07 pm

    Good point, grackle, and I apologise in that way for contributing. Yet, it’s where we learn things, on these offshoots, which I think really do contribute to the concrete issues.

    Quiet forthwith, and please carry on.

  90. October 2, 2012 at 6:42 pm

    grackle,

    It’s not my thread. It’s Eric’s. It’s not hijacked, all you need to do is skip the comments that you’re not interested in. It takes about two seconds to figure out if the comment is discussing fluoridation or not.

  91. October 2, 2012 at 7:02 pm

    On second thought… there’s a new thread for discussion of fluoridation. PLEASE don’t post any further fluoridation stuff here, just go to the Humboldt Herald’s home page and click on the fluoridation item to comment.

  92. Foolest Gump
    October 2, 2012 at 9:51 pm

    Linda, one thing you and Larry Glass have in common is revisionist history. Both of you seem to remember things the way you want to remember them, not the way they actually happened.

    Let’s review your latest post, shall we:

    My opponent says I have magically delayed a development in Eureka and is trying to con voters about it. Of course the story is not true, but the important question is why are my opponent and his public relations hatchet crew being allowed to get away with this?

    Because Larry Glass and yourself did everything to stop / slow / delay the Marina Center project.
    How many times did you vote against the project?
    How many meetings did you have with the developer to say, “I’m your elected City Councilmember. What can I do to assist you on your project?
    Or did you tell Security National, “I’m not in favor of this project (at least not until 70% of the voters wanted the pollution cleaned up and jobs brought to our town).

    They’re losing so now they’re making things up in a desperate attempt to take over complete control of city hall.

    “They” are not making anything up.
    Although you might be ahead at this stage it will tighten up towards November 6, especially if Charlie Bean goes door to door.
    Besides, “they” already have complete control of city hall.

    But why?

    Simple. “They” don’t like you.

    What is so valuable to them that they would risk being exposed as liars and cheats?

    State one fact or statement that was “liars and cheats”?
    Somehow we survived Bonnie Neely and her stink. Watch the senate campaigns. This is mild.

    Those are the questions that must be asked now, because if we wait too long it will be too late.

    Oh, you mean you might lose this election? Then you and Larry could sit around, smoke a few joints and say, “Remember back in the day when we fucked with that city manager dude and almost got the police chief to run the whole show? Damn, we came this close.

    Ever watch that poker thing on TV. The local regressives went “all in” in 2010.

    They lost it all.

    Something to think about.

  93. Eric Kirk
    October 2, 2012 at 10:39 pm

    But they were only two votes out of 5 FG. And yet the Marina Center Project isn’t happening. So whose fault is that?

  94. Cubby
    October 3, 2012 at 4:43 am

    “Simple. “They” don’t like you.”
    Straight from the horse’s, er, mouth. That’s life in Arkleyville, right, Rob?

  95. Just the fax
    October 3, 2012 at 6:51 am

    How soon we forget that when the California Coastal Commission wanted a study of the Balloon Track soil, “somebody” went to Bill Pierson who hired a convicted felon to trespass on private property, take soil samples and write up a biased report.

    When asked under oath during his deposition, whom at the California Coastal Commission requested this soil sample Bill Pierson could not recall.

    Does anyone know any local person with ties to both the California Coastal Commission and Bill Pierson?

    Just another example of our local elected officials stalling any type of progress in our community.

  96. Eric Kirk
    October 3, 2012 at 11:23 am

    Uh, yeah, how soon we forget. You forgot the Willie Horton image.

  97. HUUFC
    October 3, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    The Willie Horton ad was true, I guess you mean post #95 is true also. I would like more details, who is the local person? I wish construction could start on the Marina project, lots of jobs, supplies bought, being able to shop at Home Depot, I wish.

  98. A-nony-mouse
    October 3, 2012 at 1:00 pm

    Foolest Gump, you prove your name! The real fight over the Balloon Tract was for a real and proper cleanup. The fight over what was to be built there was an entirely different matter. Both Linda and Larry were insistent that the property be completely and safely cleaned up. Why should that be a problem for anybody? In fact, when Baykeeper took the issue to court, the court ordered Security National, aka CUE IV, to actually do a proper cleanup, working with Baykeeper to get it done. Have you seen any results? Any work being done? Anything at all? And yet you blame Linda for the inaction ? Man, some people must be dense! They insist on making Bill Pierson , Linda, and Larry their ‘whipping boys’ while the real reason for inaction lives at D and Buhne. Amazing what people will make themselves believe.

    As far as I know, Linda still beileves in and advocates for a thorough cleanup of the Balloon Tract as ordered by the courts. Beyond that, she has little or nothing to do with what happens there. Try to find a real issue, Joe, or stay home. Come to think of it, I can’t ever remeber seeing you at a city council meeting until, maybe, the last few months. Makes me glad to see you’ve been so involved with city business. HA!

  99. Anonymous
    October 3, 2012 at 1:14 pm

    “…while the real reason for inaction lives at D and Buhne.”

    The majority of Eureka residents live here, while a tiny handful of wannabe kings grind our economy into the ground from afar.

  100. WTF?
    October 4, 2012 at 7:24 am

    Tom “A-Nony-mouse” Peters –

    I believe the question the previous post asked was whether Linda Atkins sat down with her constituent and ask how she could help with the Marina Center project.

    Or did she tell them, “I’m not in favor of this project” and as such, did everything in her power to delay the project?

    Simple question.

  101. Anonymous
    October 4, 2012 at 7:36 am

    Simple two-choice question, neither of which is necessarily true – A Fox Noise tactic,

  102. October 5, 2012 at 7:17 am

    Narration,
    Late, and OH NO! it’s off topic for some. I can see by your fiction (vaccine & other administered toxins) defense position that you didn’t bother to check out anything other than corporate media’s alphabet soup gangs AMA/ADA/CDC/EPA.
    Vaccine Injury Payments are in the hundreds of thousands every quarter – and that would be because?

    Tragically, we don’t start listening deeply until it’s too late.

  103. October 8, 2012 at 7:48 pm

    Hi Forest Queen; well, that’s one reason I read you the gospel of Jenner (smallpox).

    You’re a smart lady, and that’s often enough a good brake on what narrow scientism, when it is such, would prescribe, among other things.

    In science itself, and other things when we more sensibly do them, the truth is that there is no absolute truth; no end to discovering it, anyway. There are things that we have pretty firm ground to stand on. And in them, there are the pieces that don’t fit, the exceptions.

    I could say those are where we go from in learning what next is useful. I could say that such thinking didn’t change the facts when my daughter ended up with a condition which I had a pretty good idea would be fixable in 20 years. This proved out, but didn’t do enough for her, because she couldn’t wait.

    Medicine is always a balance, as indeed is daily nutrition. Too much of just about anything becomes a poison. Salt, just to take a straightforward example. The deeper truth of this is just now being ‘discovered’, as the simplistic ideas I’ve related in personal experience on another thread that first-run geneticists had become attuned to the more real.

    Specifically, I am talking about the deepening knowledge in the importance of individual differences in response to all kinds of medicine and medicines.

    The paradox you won’t necessarily like is that it’s taking the full weight of the medical research establishment to make a dent in this essential knowledge. As it becomes better clarified, you are going to find direct answers as to why vaccines completely help most persons, but can be a problem up to sometimes deadly for a relative few individuals. You are also going to see cancer treatments that work remarkably, and with remarkably less discomfort (and boy it is) than we have ever seen. I have a thin thread of help this is going to do something for my brother, that younger personality none of us want to lose.

    As you note often, it is a complex world. Getting our minds right about it takes steps in many directions, and again we are individually more tempted to go forth in certain ones, each of us. I think that what each of us does is essential; not just a nice thing to say. It is also of the best science, and other informed ways to look at things that I think we know.

    I hope you are having a good one out there, and I will soon be heading home where the waves are high enough to hear I think t his evening.

    Take care.

  104. October 9, 2012 at 12:09 pm

    Narration,
    I too respect your intelligent input . . . on everything except vaccines. If you go down the list of vaccine ingredients http://rense.com/general59/vvac.htm to smallpox, you’ll find that bovine is still listed as one of the toxic ingredients.

    What was available for your daughter, as well as one of mine, was available then. However, there’s little profit in curing. And neither of us researched all of the possibilities.

    I take it that you haven’t watched Dr. Tullio Simoncini’s interview ‘Cancer is a Fungus’ or read his book. Keep the body alkaline. Cancer can’t survive in an alkaline body.

    I wonder if the petro-chemical pharmeceutical industry has developed a GM shot for
    post-traumatic slave disorder yet?

    What keeps us from discovery isn’t ignorance, it’s the illusion of knowledge.

  105. October 9, 2012 at 12:17 pm

    Narration,
    Nothing exists in a disconnected manner. As I returned to my email in-box, this link was provided: http://phkillscancer.com/

  106. October 9, 2012 at 7:09 pm

    Forest Queen, you really made me laugh out loud, twice today, about the post-traumatic slave disorder.

    Thanks for all your thoughts. I do consider them, as you know. Best, this evening.

  107. October 9, 2012 at 7:23 pm

    Forest Queen, you really made me laugh out loud…

    She made me laugh too, especially when she cured cancer.

  108. October 9, 2012 at 10:43 pm

    Joel, that was pretty uncalled for. And she said nothing of the kind. The web link was something that came in her mail — I read it and found another example of persons keeping their spirits up by trying things alongside their official treatments and medicines.

    Keeping spirits up is a very old practice in folk telling, not to say real life practice of medicine; and while not all its premises turn into repackaged miracles, you might want to remember such things as willow bark leading to aspirin leading to a spectrum of NSAIDs which make a clear difference to many, and as far as cancer the natural poisons treatments such as the aconite that may have saved Solzhenitsyn rather than killing him as it might have, leading to all manner of chemotherapies, now near to being much improved from their original savagery by a combination of genetic close reading and calibrated nanoparticle targetters.

    The world is full of many things, and yes, some of it ‘sounds funny’. The thoughtful person makes distinctions, while listening, and I think having heart so that they don’t ‘miss it’. Quite possibly even cartoons are improved by such, no?

  109. October 9, 2012 at 10:50 pm

    You call it “keeping spirits up,” I call it rank quackery.

  110. October 10, 2012 at 6:51 am

    Some of us eat processed FRANKENFOODS which the body also treats as extremely toxic.
    Whatever you do Joel, don’t watch the ‘Thrive Movement’ video.

    Use wisely your power of choice.

  111. October 10, 2012 at 9:05 am

    Whatever you do Joel, don’t watch the ‘Thrive Movement’ video.

    Thanks. I won’t.

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