Home > Uncategorized > OK, it’s propaganda.

OK, it’s propaganda.

Hell, it’s from “New Left Media” even. But if you’re a political junky, it’s more American carrion to feast upon. My favorite part is the way the New Left Media reporter keeps earnestly nodding his head.

  1. Casey Jones (the Grateful Dead version)
    November 3, 2012 at 9:18 pm

    Wow… Now THAT was bizarre.

    To be fair, though.. if someone wandered around an Obama campaign stop asking substantive questions, they’d probably get roughly the same sort of responses.

    I did feel sorry for Meatloaf though….

  2. ObamaPhone
  3. Plain Jane
    November 3, 2012 at 10:33 pm

    We’ve all seen the Obama phone type videos, Casey. What’s astounding to me are the people who are basically saying (and not just on this video), “I believe Mitt Romney was just lying to get votes and will really do what I want him to do so I’m voting for him.” The senile old woman (He’s a Christian Muslim atheist) was just pathetic. From my experience, the people in this video are typical of working class Romney supporters, i.e. poorly educated, misinformed, Limbautomized, Fox viewers who probably use more colorful language to describe Obama when not being recorded.

  4. Anonymous
    November 4, 2012 at 2:09 am

    LOL, you don’t sound too bright yourself Plain Jane.

  5. Trent
    November 4, 2012 at 2:26 am

    If any Christens that feel a belief in their God is essential, they should ask a Mormon if who believe was the father of Jesus Christ, and if they believe in the immaculate conception.

    I think most know that Jews worship the same God of Abraham as Christens (that the old testament is the Torah), but less realize that Muslims also worship that very same God.

    Mormon’s of course do NOT believe that the God of Abram exists, or ever did.

  6. Ponder z
    November 4, 2012 at 6:45 am

    typical left wing media, editing and interviewing for the dumb, stuttering response. The fake reporter could have found better educated, and eloquent speakers. Like he was looking for the “Romney phone” voters. But look at the background in the video. Lots of people, some not to bright, not clean cut, or well educated, but all voting for Romney.

    Obama,…….He SUUUuuuccckkkkssss!!!!

  7. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 6:45 am

    That is a falsehood, Trent. Mormons believe that they worship the same god and the same “son” as all other Christians. They believe that Native Americans were Jews who came to the new world by boat, grew in population, had wars against each other and those who won (the evil ones) were turned red by god as punishment. They believe Jesus visited the new world. They believe Joseph Smith is the latest prophet from god and the gold tablets he was given to translate are god’s new rules. Joseph Smith was baptized by John the Baptist and Mormons believe that only those who are baptized by someone who was baptized by JS, etc, are really saved.

    Of course, DNA proves that Native Americans didn’t come from the Middle East by boat and most non-Mormons recognize that Joseph Smith was just a scandalous con man, but that has had little effect on Mormons.

  8. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 6:51 am

    I don’t know much about Mormons, PJ, but from outside it appears they’ve created a fairly effective socialist safety net for their members via tithing. It’s unfortunate that you have to believe, or pretend to believe, in a particularly outrageous religious dogma to get the benefits of their social welfare state-in-a-state.

    And, of course, it’s unfortunate that the social welfare state comes complete with requirements that you politically behave the way you’re told, including contributing to campaigns to limit the rights of your neighbors.

  9. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:00 am

    Ponder z,

    Unless you’ve been an intentional parody all along, I don’t think you understand that your comments are dead center in the NLM video. After all, the last line of your #6 is typical of your own comments, and is the best you’ve come up with as your reasoning for voting for Romney (assuming you vote).

    At least, as PJ pointed out, the elderly woman was senile. What’s your excuse?

  10. Just Watchin
    November 4, 2012 at 7:08 am

    Mitch :I don’t know much about Mormons, PJ, but from outside it appears they’ve created a fairly effective socialist safety net for their members via tithing. It’s unfortunate that you have to believe, or pretend to believe, in a particularly outrageous religious dogma to get the benefits of their social welfare state-in-a-state.
    And, of course, it’s unfortunate that the social welfare state comes complete with requirements that you politically behave the way you’re told, including contributing to campaigns to limit the rights of your neighbors.

    Calling church tithing a “socialist safety net” is pathetic. Tithing is voluntary giving, not a government taking money away. You are a disgusting human being.

  11. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:10 am

    I do know quite a lot about the Mormon religion, Mitch. I have read the Book of Mormon because I have many family members who are Mormon. Their history of religious persecution no doubt plays a huge role in their “social welfare” philosophy for fellow Mormons and their sense of community in their church is of greater importance than actual Mormon theology, at least to those I know.

  12. Gil Yule
    November 4, 2012 at 7:11 am

    I’m so disappointed with our species at times. We’re just not living up to potential…and it’s not just Republicans. This clip is exactly why I’m ignoring all national level politics during this election cycle.

  13. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:22 am

    Just Watchin,

    Tithing is voluntary? Yes, I’m sure it is. JW, to be called a disgusting human being by you is an honor. Thank you.

  14. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:22 am

    Church tithing may be voluntary, but when believers think excommunication for not tithing will send them the hell, how voluntary is it?

  15. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:25 am

    PJ,

    Congratulations on your escape, if that’s what it was. It’s such a sad thing that for many people, obtaining a sense of community requires an assertion of ridiculous beliefs. If only people like JW understood that stating that a group maintains a socialist safety net for its membership is actually a compliment.

  16. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:27 am

    Mormons are required to attend a Tithing Settlement with the Bishop each year. A member is questioned in a one-on-one interview with the Bishop to ensure the member is paying a full 10%. Those members who are not paying a full 10% lose their temple recommends and are prevented from entering the Temple.

    Mormons who lose their temple recommends are in serious jeopardy of losing their Celestial blessings. A Mormon who does not pay tithing cannot enter the temple. If a member cannot get into the temple, the member cannot learn the secret handshake, secret password, secret “new name” and special “sealings”. Without these, the member will be unable to pass Joseph Smith and the angels who guard the entrance to the Celestial Kingdom. Mormons are further threatened that if they do not pay a full tithe, they will be burned with fire when Jesus Christ comes again.

  17. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:29 am

    Mind-boggling. Thanks for the info, PJ. Are you serious about the secret handshake stuff, or is that hyperbole?

  18. November 4, 2012 at 7:29 am

    Id like to see that guy interview Romney. Still Im sure you could trap people at Obama rallies all day long too, all you have to do is understand their psychology. Its fascinating that America has somehow developed into this dichotomy of right and left (political) leaning brains.

    Considering how there is increasing evidence that conservative or liberal views are linked to how our brains are wired, its strange to realize that we may have no control whatsoever over the long term way society evolves.

  19. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:34 am

    Thanks Mitch. My immediate family wasn’t Mormon, but one side was Mormon going back many generations so I have lots of aunts, uncles and cousins who are Mormon, some of whom are busy getting non-Mormon ancestors baptized so we’ll all be together in the Celestial Kingdom. They haven’t been able to get me to join so they’ll probably buy my “fire insurance” after I’m dead. : > D

  20. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:35 am

    That’s absolutely true, Mitch, as is the “magic underwear.”

  21. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:38 am

    bolithio,

    Well, I did headling it “OK, it’s propaganda.”

    Our brains may be wired in particular ways, but expression of particular traits can be heavily dependent on the environment. For example (with apologies for the oversimplification) some of us may be wired to respond to fear more with fight, some with more flight. But you’ll only see that difference when fear becomes commonplace in the environment. In the same way, societies create environments in which people are more and less willing to cooperate, regardless of their genes. It’s fascinating stuff only now being studied.

    As a practical matter, politicians have long recognized that fearful voters will vote for the strong authority figure.

  22. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:40 am

    Wow, Jane. That’s sadder than I’d thought. I really do wonder if some dogmas cause people so much emotional violence that they ought to be prosecuted for kidnapping.

  23. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:46 am

    Since we know brain “wiring” can be intentionally changed by therapy (see stroke victims as one example) it seems obvious that it can be unintentionally changed by “educational” programming. I’ve known liberals who, after moving to very red regions, became just as “conservative” as the community, who went from being agnostic to holy rollers praising god for everything. While I’m sure that at least at first they were faking to fit in, soon they were either true believers or they’re doing a very good acting job.

  24. Martin Luther
    November 4, 2012 at 7:47 am

    Or, in the case of the Catholic hierarchy. . .

  25. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 7:57 am

    Funny you should turn up here, Mr. Luther. I’m just reading Steven Pinker’s “The Better Angels of our Nature: Why Violence Has Declined,” and Pinker quotes your treatise “On the Jews and their Lies:”

    “First, … set fire to their synagogues or schools and … bury and cover with dirt whatever will not burn, so that no man will ever again see a stone or cinder of them…. Second, I advise that their houses also be razed and destroyed… Third, I advise that all their prayer books and Talmudic writings, in whish such idolatry, lies, cursing, and blasphemy are taught, be taken from them….”

    He goes up to seven, not having the stamina of Spinal Tap. It’s always refreshing to hear from our great moral leaders.

  26. Anonymous
    November 4, 2012 at 8:05 am

    Plain Jane :
    I do know quite a lot about the Mormon religion, Mitch. I have read the Book of Mormon because I have many family members who are Mormon. Their history of religious persecution no doubt plays a huge role in their “social welfare” philosophy for fellow Mormons and their sense of community in their church is of greater importance than actual Mormon theology, at least to those I know.

    You sound just like the religious bigots of old. The ones who said we must not vote for John Kennedy because he would get his orders from the Pope. Shame on you.

  27. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 8:11 am

    Anonymous,

    You’re free to believe this or not, but I feel confident that Mitt Romney’s mormonism would not be an issue in a Romney presidency. I also feel confident that Mitt Romney couldn’t give two shits about Joseph Smith’s mythology, because I feel confident that the only thing Mitt Romney cares about is Mitt Romney.

  28. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 8:17 am

    Meanwhile, PJ, we can only be glad that some people understand the ennui of life:

  29. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 8:30 am

    Gosh, Anonymous! Where did you get anything from that post that I think people shouldn’t vote for Romney because he’s Mormon? I don’t want anyone pushing any religious dogma from the White House whether that is Mormon, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pentecostal, Seventh Day Adventist, Lutheran, etc. Mitt’s views on abortion are further to the right than his church is. Mormons are opposed to abortion for themselves or helping anyone get one, but don’t believe they should prevent others from having them. Mitt, on the other hand, is on record as believing that we, as a secular society, should prohibit abortion for everyone, or at least that’s what he claims to believe.

  30. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 8:44 am

    And here is Romney saying EXACTLY that, start at 3:00 if you don’t care to hear the argument about whether the Book of Mormon says JC is returning to Jerusalem or Missouri:

  31. Ponder z
    November 4, 2012 at 10:42 am

    OK here is an interview you need to see. Then compared to the Romney supporters. Hint (may be some of the 47%).

  32. Mitch
    November 4, 2012 at 11:00 am

    Thanks, Ponder! I’d thought the reich-wing could do better than this, but I guess not. That’s encouraging!

  33. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 11:13 am

    Hilarious that the video text comments about what the interviewees say are often false and the commenter correct. Comparing this video to the one at the Romney rally, the Obama supporters were more accurate and valid reasons for voting for Obama. His attempts to trick them into giving nonsensical answers are a scream.

  34. November 4, 2012 at 11:28 am

    I thought Ponder’s video was pretty good. It reminds me of a personal experience I had before the 2000 election when Bush Jr. was running against Algore.

    I voted for Harry Browne in that one, but thought Bush seemed like a pretty good guy with a decent record. I couldn’t understand the hatred so many lefties had for him. The gal that delivered our mail was one of them. She’d made a few nasty remarks about Bush, but nothing specific.

    One day I had to ask her: “What is it you hate so much about Bush?“. Apparently never having been asked that before, she stood there with a confused look on her face for half a minute or so. She finally said, “I don’t know. I guess I just don’t like those beady eyes of his“. So much for substance.

    My most recent experience in that regard was with a neighbor who regularly walks his dog by our house- an older retired CalTrans worker. He came walking by a few weeks ago and pointed to the Gary Johnson signs in my front yard, asking who Gary Johnson was. After I explained who Johnson was he said, “So….he’ll take votes from….”. Boy, does that get old?

    Then he says, “Don’t you think we need a president that will be so tough no other country would dare mess with us?“. Figuring that must mean he’s voting for Romney, I replied, “Obama’s killed more people than Bush. Isn’t that being tough?“. I don’t think he expected that answer. He got a sheepish grin on his face, nodded, and walked off with his dog. So much for that conversation.

    And, yes, you might likely have gotten the same sort of answers if you switched the candidates and the people asked.

  35. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 11:36 am

    Obama’s killed more people than Bush? Seriously, Fred??? Over half a million dead Iraqi’s would beg to differ with you.

  36. November 4, 2012 at 11:45 am

    His drone program has certainly excelled Bush’s. He’s working on the larger number.

  37. November 4, 2012 at 11:52 am

    You can always find at least one idiot to prove whatever point you’re trying to make. As is evident from many of the posts on this site.

  38. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 12:01 pm

    So you prefer that American soldiers do it, Fred?

  39. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 12:02 pm

    Or maybe you don’t care about terrorists so long as they are only causing trouble in nuclear armed countries like Pakistan?

  40. Anonymous
    November 4, 2012 at 12:42 pm

    “He got a sheepish grin on his face, nodded, and walked off with his dog.”

    I’m guessing that what Fred described as a “sheepish grin” was more like the smile offered to indulge someone who appears to be a bit feebleminded.

  41. November 4, 2012 at 12:56 pm

    Plain Jane :
    Or maybe you don’t care about terrorists so long as they are only causing trouble in nuclear armed countries like Pakistan?

    Aha! Plain Jane supports the drone assassination program. Thanks.

  42. Anonymous
    November 4, 2012 at 1:23 pm

    Plain Jane :
    Gosh, Anonymous! Where did you get anything from that post that I think people shouldn’t vote for Romney because he’s Mormon? I don’t want anyone pushing any religious dogma from the White House whether that is Mormon, Catholic, Jewish, Muslim, Pentecostal, Seventh Day Adventist, Lutheran, etc. Mitt’s views on abortion are further to the right than his church is. Mormons are opposed to abortion for themselves or helping anyone get one, but don’t believe they should prevent others from having them. Mitt, on the other hand, is on record as believing that we, as a secular society, should prohibit abortion for everyone, or at least that’s what he claims to believe.

    If it quacks like a religious bigot, talks like a religious bigot & thinks like a religious bigot it is a religious bigot. You are and you should try to be better than that.

  43. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 1:26 pm

    You’ll have to do better than that, #42. Exactly what shows bigotry in that post? Separation of church and state is based on our constitution and while I agree they were bigots as far as women and people of color were concerned, they were emphatically unbigoted as far as religion goes. I don’t care what people believe. I do care when they try to force me to follow the rules based on their beliefs if they contradict mine.

  44. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 1:35 pm

    I notice you didn’t answer any of my questions, Fred. Do you have a sheepish grin on your face?

  45. retired guy
    November 4, 2012 at 2:23 pm

    It’s interesting that the Romney “flip flop” issue does not appear to be mentioned in this blog. He has no center as a human being—it’s that simple. He’ll say whatever pleases the most people at whatever venue he happens to be at. Any non rich person who believes this guy is good for this country is totally misinformed.

  46. November 4, 2012 at 4:07 pm

    Plain Jane :
    Or maybe you don’t care about terrorists so long as they are only causing trouble in nuclear armed countries like Pakistan?

    Ok. I’ll bite. I don’t believe in making enemies, thus potential terrorists, of which Obama has probably made a lot more than Bush.

    Note that these drone kills are all Obama. Not quite the same as starting a war. You could argue Obama has a lot more blood on his hands than anyone else because of his drone assassinations.

  47. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 4:10 pm

    So you don’t make any more, but what about the ones that are already made, Fred? Last chance because I’m getting ready to walk away with an indulgent smile.

  48. November 4, 2012 at 4:35 pm
  49. November 4, 2012 at 6:35 pm

    Plain Jane :
    So you don’t make any more, but what about the ones that are already made, Fred? Last chance because I’m getting ready to walk away with an indulgent smile.

    And you trust your Lord Obama that all those killed are terrorists? By all accounts, except Obama’s, many are not. Sure, they get one guy, but lots of folks are getting killed with him.

    I feel safe in saying if this were the other way around and Bush were in the White House now, doing the same things Obama is, you’d be criticizing Bush for his reckless foreign policy.

    BTW; I’ll dedicate my blog post tomorrow morning to you. Such an honor!

  50. November 4, 2012 at 6:48 pm

    Fred,

    Do you think all those killed during bombing campaigns are terrorists, thanks to our clever bombs that go down chimneys and knock on bedroom doors?

  51. Plain Jane
    November 4, 2012 at 7:14 pm

    And Fred STILL didn’t answer the question about what to do about terrorists in other countries plotting attacks around the globe.

  52. November 5, 2012 at 6:26 am

    Mitch :
    Fred,
    Do you think all those killed during bombing campaigns are terrorists, thanks to our clever bombs that go down chimneys and knock on bedroom doors?

    That’s why we need to stop bombing other countries, Mitch.

  53. November 5, 2012 at 7:09 am

    We agree bombing people is bad, Fred. The disagreement is about who has killed more people, remember?

    Drone strikes on individual alleged terrorists kill very small numbers of people, some of whom might be innocent; bombing to supposedly accomplish the same tasks kills a great many people, many of them guaranteed to be innocent.

  54. Plain Jane
    November 5, 2012 at 7:56 am

    Fred won’t say what he would do about terrorism. Drones are bad and kill innocent people, but they kill thousands fewer innocent people than terrorists and millions fewer than wars. What’s the solution to existing terrorists who are plotting attacks on civilians and destabilizing countries with nuclear weapons? CRICKETS!

  55. November 5, 2012 at 10:26 am

    …but they kill thousands fewer innocent people than terrorists.

    Nope. Very few people are killed by terrorism, at least in the U.S. Your chance of dying by just about anything else is higher than being killed by terrorist attack. There’s some statistics about that floating around the web.

    Any most Americans are not “innocent people”. Just as you do, most support U.S. policies of attack on other countries. Since they give material and moral support to those attacks, one could argue they’re just as guilty as those that physically do the killing.

  56. November 5, 2012 at 10:36 am

    Fred,

    How many nuclear weapons do you think it would be OK for terrorists to obtain? How many deaths do you think one could cause? Do you think people who fly jets into skyscrapers would not use a nuclear bomb on NY or LA? Do you think it’s wrong to kill them, even when they are in other countries and cannot be extradited for trial, or even captured without putting a soldier’s life at risk?

    Killing someone who is trying to kill you or innocent bystanders is not morally the same as killing someone because you don’t like their ethnicity, country, sexual orientation, etc…

    If you can’t understand that, I don’t know how you manage to figure out how to eat.

  57. Plain Jane
    November 5, 2012 at 10:47 am

    I’ll make it easy for you with multiple choice options, Fred.

    1. Ignore terrorists even if they attack us.
    2. Ignore them unless they directly attack the US.
    3. Use the military on the ground to stop them from attacking us.
    4. Use the military to punish them after they have attacked us.
    5. Use drones to take them out before they attack us or kill more innocent people elsewhere.
    6. None of the above. This is for Fred, after all. :>D

    What are the odds of being killed by a drone targeting terrorists, Fred? How many innocent civilians have been killed by drones and how many innocent Americans died on 9/11? How many innocent civilians do terrorists blow up around the world on any given day? How do you know the people who are killed by drones attacking terrorists are innocent? How do you know they don’t support the terrorists materially and spiritually? You don’t. You have nothing but complaints and no solutions. The idea that we can just ignore terrorists as they wreck havoc in nuclear armed countries and terrorize and murder innocent populations around the globe because a few “innocents” might be in the vicinity of the targeted terrorist is crazy.

  58. November 5, 2012 at 6:02 pm

    Sick, sick, sick, answers on both your parts, especially since you’d feel different if Bush or Romney were doing it.

  59. Plain Jane
    November 5, 2012 at 6:16 pm

    You still haven’t answered the question, Fred. If not one of those 6 options, how would you stop terrorist attacks?

  60. Plain Jane
    November 5, 2012 at 6:22 pm

    You are right about the Bush or Romney part. I trust that President Obama isn’t using drone strikes for political points or to increase the profits of his military industrial complex/oil industry buddies.

  61. tra
    November 5, 2012 at 6:55 pm

    Drone strikes aren’t going to stop all terrorist attacks. Not doing drone strikes isn’t going to stop all terrorist attacks.

    Will the drone strikes stop more terrorist attacks than they end up causing later due to the “collateral damage” of innocent people being killed, leading others in their communities to resort to terrorist attacks as revenge? I don’t think anyone knows the answer to that.

    I think you guys should cut each other some slack. These are very hard questions, and I don’t think there are any clear answers. If there are, that’s news to me.

    If you approach the question not as a numerical question (what will result in the fewest deaths of innocent people overall?) but as a moral question, then there are conclusions that can be reached, though those conclusions depend very much on what moral framework you adopt. For example, if you take the position that directly killing innocent people (even “by accident,” in other words as “collateral damage” that is not desired, but is still entirely predictable ) is worse than indirectly contributing to the deaths of innocent people by not acting against suspected terrorists, who then go on to launch attacks that kill innocent people (which again is not the desired outcome, but could again be argued to be an entirely predictable outcome of the non-action) then you will probably see the drone strikes as morally indefensible.

    To those who end up dead, these fine moral points will make no difference (at least not in this earthly world) — they’re just as dead either way. But to the loved ones these dead innocents leave behind, the distinctions may in fact make some difference — grieving friends and relatives may indeed be more outraged by the deaths of innocents that are seen as a direct result of action than the deaths of innocents that are seen as the indirect result of non-actions. And that may have practical implications, in terms of perpetuating the cycles of revenge.

    Again, this is not easy stuff…at least not for me. I envy those who are able to see these choices in simple black and white terms, and have no doubt about which courses of action are the most practical, and the most morally defensible. But that envy is mixed with concern that their certainty is more a matter of ignoring the validity of opposing arguments rather than due to a greater clarity of vision on the part of those who feel certain of their positions.

  62. Anonymous
    November 5, 2012 at 7:11 pm

    Jane, I have to take exception with one of your first comments, characterizing the woman (with the long hair?) as senile. Senile, because she disagrees with you and makes outrageous statements? To be clear, I am on the Obama side, and agree that these statements are completely fiction. However, you have to understand that there is an elderly population, as well as a population of those who will believe what they hear about a person who disagrees with their traditional Republican politics. I know this because I am from a family of Republicans, and some of the oldest, less senile and smartest, are not able to discern bullshit from truth coming from the media. They are simply not able at these stage in their lives. They are not used to being bombarded with information from all directions. That woman did not sound senile, but she did sound angry and she is clearly hearing all sorts of nonsense to fortify her basic beliefs. The world has changed and he conservatives in the present are not like those of the past.

  63. Plain Jane
    November 5, 2012 at 7:24 pm

    Senile because she believes contradictory and ridiculous claims, #62, and spouts them without realizing how contradictory and ridiculous they are.

  64. Anonymous
    November 5, 2012 at 8:05 pm

    Jane, that is called “difference in opinion”. I think people who don’t agree with me are outrageous but it doesn’t mean they have a memory problem. A lot of people believe completely insane remarks and contradictory claims, believe what their preacher or relative says over rational arguments. and think with their emotions rather than their brain. It is still not senility. It is unfortunately, human nature.

  65. Anonymous
    November 6, 2012 at 5:27 pm

    Jane, you are such a prolific blog contributor. It’s impressive.

  66. Plain Jane
    November 6, 2012 at 6:00 pm

    Thanks, #65, I think. I’m tied to a computer for work so I fill the gaps in my work day with news and discussion of the news. It’s more interesting than playing backgammon or poker.

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