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Local woman petitions media on reporting gun deaths

why_gunsNicole Holland writes:

An estimated 34 gun deaths occur daily in the United States. These thousands of deaths a year include many innocent children. Unlike the tragedy in Newtown, CT, they go largely unreported by our national media. In order to provide greater balance in the current public debate of guns and proposed gun regulations, we believe the media should give a regular and periodic report providing the name and age of the victims.

That’s why I created a petition to National Media/Corporate News, which says:

“In order to elevate the discourse on the issue of gun control in America, we the undersigned petition the national media and television news in particular to provide a periodic reporting of daily gun deaths in America (including the name and age of victims).”

Will you sign this petition? Click here:

http://signon.org/sign/media-petitioned-to-report

Thanks!

  1. lostit
    December 28, 2012 at 8:54 am

    There should be a similar petition for cars. Vehicles are used to kill people as well, there are way more accidental and intentional deaths from vehicles than guns. We should all ride bikes, right?

  2. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 9:05 am

    If you want a large source of under-reported deaths, look at church shootings. The media focuses it’s Sauron-like eye on school shootings and gives nary a glance to church shootings.

  3. lostit
    December 28, 2012 at 9:11 am

    What about the children of Afgan, Iraq and other countries children, that were killed by our actions, is there a running tally somewhere? The thousands of muslim children killed as collateral, where is that list?

  4. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 9:19 am

    lostit :
    There should be a similar petition for cars. Vehicles are used to kill people as well, there are way more accidental and intentional deaths from vehicles than guns. We should all ride bikes, right?

    There are more accidental deaths from cars than from guns, of course, because more people drive cars many more hours a year than they use guns. Including “intentional” in that sentence is dishonest spin. Many more people are killed deliberately with guns than with cars.

  5. HUUFC
    December 28, 2012 at 9:38 am

    You want a national discussion on gun violence with an emphasis on murder? Be prepared for some uncomfortable facts. Half of the murder victims are young black men. The killer is another young black man. Black males are about 6% of the population of the United States and commit approximately 50% of the murders. Very, very,
    uncomfortable facts.

  6. December 28, 2012 at 9:42 am

    There are no ‘(a)ccidents.’ What’s epidemic now are suicides and autism. Keep your focus on the man behind the curtain.

  7. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 9:45 am

    Black men have the highest rates of unemployment and poverty and most of their crimes are about money, HUUFC. Why are most, if not all, mass murderers in the US white men?

  8. HUUFC
    December 28, 2012 at 10:28 am

    Unemployment and poverty are not the cause of murder, a warped culture and a wanton disregard for life within criminals are. As to the color of the mass murderers, I don’t know why, do you?

  9. lostit
    December 28, 2012 at 10:38 am

    “There are more accidental deaths from cars than from guns, of course, because more people drive cars many more hours a year than they use guns. Including “intentional” in that sentence is dishonest spin. Many more people are killed deliberately with guns than with cars.”
    Really Anon, here is one recent example in a small population of Humboldt in the last week, I think you are mistaken on what is spin. http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2012/dec/24/woman-arrested-nearly-hitting-exs-new-girlfriend-c/

  10. lostit
    December 28, 2012 at 10:44 am

    http://lostcoastoutpost.com/2012/dec/28/sheriffs-seeking-suspect-most-pointless-road-rage/
    oh heck, here is another one…very misleading. “The investigating deputy spoke with two witnesses who saw the assault with the vehicle…”

  11. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 10:54 am

    I call bullshit, how about all the instances of guns used in self defense each year:

    (Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.)

    (Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: “We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million.)

    thousands may die from guns each year, but hundreds of thousands (possibly millions) are saved each year by guns.

    If you want to give up your ability to defend yourself, and subjugate yourself to the will of others go ahead and give up your guns.

    “Freemen will remain a Freemen, as long as they keeps and bears arms.”

  12. Wall-E
    December 28, 2012 at 10:55 am

    Just a question: If there are “senseless killings” and “pointless road rage” instances, are there “sensible killings” and “justifiable road rage” incidents?

  13. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 11:25 am

    Did you think I said NO PEOPLE are deliberately killed with cars? People are killed with cars, with hammers, with chain saws, with baseball bats, etc. But none of those things were designed for no other purpose than to kill.

  14. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 11:28 am

    “Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.”

    I’m sure George Zimmerman would include himself in that group. Doesn’t make it true.

  15. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 11:38 am

    England now suffers from a rash of brutal stabbings and deaths .. The weapon of choice is broken pop bottles. The root problem with any violent attack is not the weapon.

  16. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 11:40 am

    Since neither you or I know the facts, it doesn’t make it wrong either.

  17. Mitch
  18. December 28, 2012 at 2:02 pm

    “Anonymous” #15: you have hit on the root of the problem. Thanks.
    Guns are a symptom of the illness; they are not the illness itself. Poverty, sick-society, glorified violence, these contribute to mental and emotional illness which can lead to acts of violence.
    I do not believe civilians need to own assault-rifles and stinger missiles though. And the idea that we need to arm ourselves against our own government is pretty dumb. Unless we’re going to arm ourselves with nuclear weapons, we wouldn’t have much of an impact. Not to mention the fact it’s treason to take up arms against one’s own country. And by the way…which one of our young people serving in the military do these morons plan to kill first?

  19. lostit
    December 28, 2012 at 2:31 pm

    Anon #13 – you dont make any sense- just opinionated on hysteria- obvious bandwagon jumper on-er… I love shooting at soda cans and targets, they are fun, obviously you come from a city or worse, a suburb. Seems a lot of people, even local open minded democrats like guns for fun, our very own: What No One Wants to Admit About Guns: They’re Fun – http://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2012/12/what-no-one-wants-to-admit-about-guns-theyre-fun/266520/#

  20. December 28, 2012 at 3:01 pm

    moviedad :
    “And by the way…which one of our young people serving in the military do these morons plan to kill first?

    Back when I was associated with the military, I feel safe in saying a fair majority would take the side of gun owners if it came to civil war. Since they’ve lowered entrance standards for the military quite a bit since then that may not be true anymore.

  21. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 3:03 pm

    Baseball bats are to hit baseballs with. Cars are for transportation. Chainsaws are for cutting wood. Hammers are for pounding nails. Guns are for killing. You might have a lot of fun with any of these things, but the purpose they were designed for does not change because they can be used for other things. You Lostit again.

  22. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 3:13 pm

    Your standards on standards are screwed up Fred.

  23. December 28, 2012 at 5:32 pm

    Hi Fred, my experience in the military tells me that once an “action” starts, no one is making any “geo-political” decisions about which side is righteous, they just do what they’re trained to do. That guy in Yemen, and his 16 yr old son who were killed by drone attack were both American citizens, so at least one person in the military had no problem killing American citizens on the say-so of the Commander In Chief.

  24. December 28, 2012 at 6:28 pm

    moviedad :
    Hi Fred, my experience in the military tells me that once an “action” starts, no one is making any “geo-political” decisions about which side is righteous, they just do what they’re trained to do. That guy in Yemen, and his 16 yr old son who were killed by drone attack were both American citizens, so at least one person in the military had no problem killing American citizens on the say-so of the Commander In Chief.

    Just as an aside, I’m pretty sure you voted for that CIC, who makes many of those drone decisions personally, so you share a good deal of the blame.

  25. December 28, 2012 at 8:14 pm

    Missing from the gun control debate: Police shootings of unarmed people of color
    by Rania Khalek on December 21, 2012
    http://raniakhalek.com/2012/12/21/missing-from-the-gun-control-debate-police-shootings-of-unarmed-people-of-color/

    Gun violence is rarely discussed except for when a horrific mass shooting takes place. Still, even with the nation’s eyes focused on this particular issue, there is one type of kind of gun violence that is continually ignored: Police killings of unarmed citizens.

    In my experience, liberal gun control advocates are the most silent on this issue. I’m not sure why but if I had to guess I’d say it’s because they are predominantly white middle and upper class folks, so for them, police are good guys who they trust to protect them.

    It’s quite the opposite in poor communities of color. Just ask Rekia Boyd, Ramarley Graham, Sean Bell, Alan Blueford and Manuel Diaz, all people of color who were unarmed when killed at the hands of police officers.

    In June of this year, I attended a panel at Netroots Nation titled, “Gun Politics after Trayvon and Tuscon: New Life for a Deadly Issue.” Mark Glaze, director of Mayors Against Illegal Guns (MAIG) was one of the panelists.

    Though Trayvon’s name was used in the title, the panel failed to address the violence perpetrated against young men of color by police, who they often fear just as much and sometimes even more than they do other types of violence, with good reason. This legitimate distrust of police has led to a “stop-snitching” culture that impedes murder investigations and discourages some residents from calling the police in instances of domestic violence.

    It was in this context that my friend and Truthout outreach director, Joe Macare, asked the Netroots panel to address police gun violence, highlighting the shooting death of Rekia Boyd by an off-duty Chicago police officer. The panel responded with stunning silence until Mark Glaze spoke up and dismissed the question as having nothing to do with the larger issue of gun violence.

    Macare followed up by citing the time New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg said, “I have my own army in the NYPD, which is the seventh biggest army in the world.” Glaze laughed at Macare, saying something along the lines of “that didn’t really happen,” even though it definitely did. Ironically, the organization that Glaze directs was co-founded by Mayor Bloomberg, who also happens to be its largest funder.

    The NYPD (Bloomberg’s private army) is notorious for shooting unarmed people of color with near impunity (i.e. Ramarley Graham, Noel Polanco, Sean Bell, Amadou Diallo, Shem Walker, Reynaldo Cuevas). The same is true of the Chicago Police Department, the Oakland Police Department, the Los Angeles Police Department, the Anaheim Police Department and so on. While it’s great that U.S. mayors have collectively organized against gun violence, they defend, in the same breath, the deadly use of force by their police departments. With this in mind, it’s hard to take Mayor Bloomberg seriously when he calls for action against the “epidemic of gun violence.”

    As Collin Benjamin at the Black Star News put it, ”isn’t the mayor being a little hypocritical here when he says not one word regarding the shoot-Black-men-dead then ask-questions-later policy that far too many have in the New York Police Department?”

    A question or two later, Sarah Jackson, an assistant professor of communication studies at Northeastern University, slammed the panel for their disrespectful response to Macare’s legitimate question and criticized them for using Trayvon’s name in the title of the panel in light of their failure to address the systemic racism (racial profiling), very much prevalent among police, that led to his murder. The crowd showed their approval of Jackson’s remarks with loud applause but again, the panel changed the subject.

    Just because gun violence inflicted by armed citizens outnumbers police violence, it doesn’t mean it’s acceptable to ignore the routine killing of unarmed people of color nor does it do anyone any good to pretend it’s not a serious problem with serious consequences.

    An investigation published by the Malcolm X Grassroots Movement (MXGM) earlier this year found that in the first half of 2012 at least 120 black men, women and children, the majority of whom were unarmed, were killed by police, security guards or self-appointed law enforcers. That’s one black person killed every 36 hours by “good guys with guns”, as the NRA like’s to call them.

    Perhaps more significant than the actual killings is the sheer lack of accountability for these executions. According to the report, less than 9 percent of those responsible for the deaths have faced charges (four police officers and six security guards and self-appointed law enforcers).

    The report’s authors describe how police impunity is largely a result of a common pattern of events in the aftermath of a police shooting:

    “The standard procedure in most jurisdictions is for police involved in fatal shootings to be given paid ‘desk-duty’ while the department conducts an investigation of itself. The press applauds their fine records while it screams about the criminal records of the deceased. Almost all killer cops are routinely exonerated and quickly return to the street. Grieving families who invariably ask the modest question, ‘why did he have to die?’ are ignored. If there is some demonstrated community outrage the case may be further investigated. The legal system almost never charges these executioners and even if they do, the killing continues.”

    With gun violence finally receiving the much-needed attention it deserves, let’s not forget that police around the nation are armed to the teeth. But this police state is directed almost exclusively at two groups of people: activists engaged in civil disobedience (i.e. Occupy Wall Street) and poor communities of color.

    In fact, many of the members of MAIG are often the same mayors who use their police forces to suppress peaceful protests (Michael Bloomberg all the time, Rahm Emanuel during the NATO summit, Jean Quan during Occupy Oakland, etc.) while shielding their most abusive officers from any accountability for countless killings in minority communities. I’m amazed they’ve been able to find time in between to organize against illegal guns.

    STOLEN LIVES: Killed By Law Enforcement (with downloadable pdf lists and photos)
    http://www.redwoodcurtaincopwatch.net/node/14390

    Video shows Manteca Police MURDER Ernest Duenez Jr.
    http://www.redwoodcurtaincopwatch.net/node/14417

    Celebrating the Prince of Peace in the Land of Guns
    http://readersupportednews.org/opinion2/436-2nd-amendment-rights/15200-focus-celebrating-the-prince-of-peace-in-the-land-of-guns

  26. Anonymous
    December 28, 2012 at 8:22 pm

    When roving bands of Serbs or Croats came to rape ,steal and kill, the homes who had guns were given a fighting chance and many survived. I know I was there. Guns are a tool with many uses. Yes, killing is one. I not only accept that fact but embrace it.

  27. Gimme more
    December 28, 2012 at 10:21 pm

    Hey gun nuts – let’s play a game!! Ready? Sure you are…

    Ya’ll been raised on guns and violence. TVs, movies, video games…

    Pour in your drug induced or genetically disposed psychosis and…Here we go….

    Start shootin” Whee hoo!!!! ain’t that fun? My gun let loose more bullets faster than yours!

    26 dead this time? Some were your own kids? Ah, well.. the cost of a free people is car accidents and mass murders with weapons designed only for mass murders.

    When roving bands of Serbs or Croats come to rape ,steal and kill, you will be glad every looney in the USA has access to mass murder guns.

    If only we could get us some of those broken pop bottles, like the ones they have in England. Just think how many more six year old kids could have been killed.

    We should work on that.

  28. bob
    December 29, 2012 at 12:48 am

    We’re just asking the to give a simple report, no editorializing, but just how many and their ages. Shouldn’t we consider the thousands a year, before we make policy based on one horrific tragedy? I bet 20 elementary kids are kidded a week, every week.
    Everyone seems to think that Newtown changed the urgency of the debate. Thats as it should be, but lets not do like the TSA and think if we just address shoes, we’re safe. We want to consider the full impact of gun deaths.

  29. Jerry
    December 29, 2012 at 12:50 am

    At least you need a license to drive a car And you have to update it.
    .

  30. Anonymous
    December 29, 2012 at 1:58 am

    And buy insurance to pay for any damage you might do with it Jerry.

  31. Ponder Z
    December 29, 2012 at 5:22 am

    #29, You need a licence to buy a gun, Idiot. Certified hunter safety class. You also fill out an affidavit stating mental history, judgments against, illicit drug use. Lie on this form and you are guilty of perjury. Enforcement of current gun laws is not being done. Why do we need more restrictions? Central Americans bring in illegal full auto assault weapons, they dont need no stinking licence.

  32. Ponder Z
    December 29, 2012 at 5:32 am

    Bob #28, you lose. You are part of the problem of blowing the truth all to shit. You have repeaated a lie and posted it here. I call bullshit on you. Here is some fact!

    LEADING CAUSES OF DEATH IN U.S. National Center for Health Statistics (latest data)

    ALL CAUSES 2,169,518
    Heart Disease 720,862
    Cancers 514,657
    Strokes 143,481
    ACCIDENTS 89,347
    Motor Vehicle 43,536
    Falls 12,662
    Poisoning (solid, liquid, gas) 6,434
    Drowning (incl. water transport drownings) 4,685
    Suffocation (mechanical, ingestion) 4,195
    Fires and flames 4,120
    Surgical/Medical misadventures* 2,473
    Other Transportation (excl. drownings) 2,086
    Natural/Environmental factors 1,453
    Chronic pulmonary diseases 90,650
    Pneumonia and influenza 77,860
    Diabetes 48,951
    Suicide** 30,810
    HIV Infections (AIDS) 29,555
    Homicide and legal intervention*** 26,513
    Cirrhosis and other liver diseases 25,429
    Firearms 1,441 ******************************************************

    * A Harvard University study suggests 93,000 deaths annually related to medical negligence, excluding tens of thousands more deaths from non- hospital medical office/lab mistakes and thousands of hospital caused infections.

    ** Approximately 60% involve firearms.

    *** Approximately 60% involve firearms. Florida State University criminologist Gary Kleck estimates 1,500 to 2,800 self-defense and justifiable homicides by civilians and 300-600 by police annually.

  33. Wall-E
    December 29, 2012 at 7:00 am

    So, PZ, how would YOU prevent school shootings? A cop in every school? Who would pay for that? Would they be required in charter schools? Religious schools? Colleges? How would YOU keep guns away from the mentally ill? How would YOU decrease the country’s gun lust?

  34. G. Gilbert Yule
    December 29, 2012 at 7:53 am

    “…we believe the media should give a regular and periodic report providing the name and age of the victims”

    I don’t think giving out victim’s names is such a good idea. Their families are trying to deal with great loss and don’t need, or I suspect want, national attention. Let them grieve in peace. Giving out the numbers and ages, maybe.

    And what’s with …the national media and television news in particular…? Why are you singling out television? Are you thinking that those too illiterate or lazy to read the news are at the root of our problem?

  35. December 29, 2012 at 8:00 am

    No Fred, I did not vote for Obama. I am not a democrat.

  36. Newton N. Minnow
    December 29, 2012 at 8:02 am

    “Are you thinking that those too illiterate or lazy to read the news are at the root of our problem?”
    Yes.

  37. ¨I am not a Democrat¨
    December 29, 2012 at 8:10 am

    Rep? Dem? The children of Pakistan think they are the same party, the American Drone Party.

    ¨…the Obama administration’s drone strikes is more than four times what it was during the Bush administration — somewhere between 1,494 and 2,618.¨

  38. Anonymous
    December 29, 2012 at 8:19 am

    Gimme more :
    Hey gun nuts – let’s play a game!! Ready? Sure you are…
    Ya’ll been raised on guns and violence. TVs, movies, video games…
    Pour in your drug induced or genetically disposed psychosis and…Here we go….
    Start shootin” Whee hoo!!!! ain’t that fun? My gun let loose more bullets faster than yours!
    26 dead this time? Some were your own kids? Ah, well.. the cost of a free people is car accidents and mass murders with weapons designed only for mass murders.
    When roving bands of Serbs or Croats come to rape ,steal and kill, you will be glad every looney in the USA has access to mass murder guns.
    If only we could get us some of those broken pop bottles, like the ones they have in England. Just think how many more six year old kids could have been killed.
    We should work on that.

    And if just one of those school employees had a gun for self defense, more children would be alive today.

  39. I´m Stoopid
    December 29, 2012 at 8:21 am

    And if every postal worker had a gun, our post offices would be safer too.

  40. Walt
    December 29, 2012 at 9:07 am

    Lines would be shorter, too.

  41. Ponder Z
    December 29, 2012 at 12:51 pm

    Wall E,
    Prevent? It is not up to me to prevent any illegal action, guns obtained by mentally ill, or put cops/guards in schools. All that is being done now. I can only be responsible for MY guns.

    Even the current executive let guns get into criminal hands. On purpose, to make American guns look bad. But the libs hush this fact up dont they? So you cant count on the current administration the stop gun violence. Just like they cant stop cancer. Or weather change. They can just tax you more to pay for the problem.

    Gun crime is only on the table to appease all you libs who hate guns and have no understanding of gun reality. You just need your liberal senator to pass more laws so this senseless killing will stop. I would like to send your liberal ass to Somalia or Congo and see how long it takes you to own a gun. Only rule is it has to be a single shot .410.

  42. Anonymous
    December 29, 2012 at 1:47 pm

    You can no more stop deaths by guns than you can stop deaths by cars or death by knives or death by accidents.

    It is a free country. That means many good things happen but also some bad things.

  43. Can't get no respect
    December 29, 2012 at 1:56 pm

    Right On Z – Guns need more rights. They get no respect. Guns should vote. The USA should become like Somalia or Congo, where guns get the respect they deserve.

  44. December 30, 2012 at 7:44 am

    A Little Gun History

    In 1929 the Soviet Union established gun control. From 1929 to 1953, about 20 million dissidents, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    In 1911, Turkey established gun control. From 1915 to 1917, 1.5 million Armenians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Germany established gun control in 1938, and from 1939 to 1945, a total of 13 million Jews and others who were unable to defend themselves were exterminated,

    China established gun control in 1935. From 1948 to 1952, 20 million political dissidents, unable to defend themselves were exterminated.

    Guatemala established gun control in 1964. From 1964 to 1981, 100,000 Mayan Indians, unable to defend themselves, were rounded up and exterminated.

    Uganda established gun control in 1970. From 1971 to 1979, 300,000 Christians, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

    Cambodia established gun control in 1956. From 1975 to 1977, one million educated people, unable to defend themselves, were exterminated.

    Defenseless people rounded up and exterminated in the 20th Century because of gun control: 56 million.

    You won’t see this data on the US evening news, or hear politicians disseminating this information.

    Guns in the hands of honest people saves lives and property, and yes, gun-control laws adversely effect only the law-abiding people.

    Take note my fellow Americans, before it’s too late. The next time someone talks gun control, please remind them of this history lesson.

    With guns, we are ‘citizens.’ Without them, we are ‘subjects.’

    Switzerland issues every household a gun. Switzerland’s government trains every adult they issue a rifle. Switzerland has the lowest gun related crime rate of any civilized country in the world. It’s a no brainer.

    Don’t let ‘our’ government waste millions of our dollars in an effort to make all law abiding citizens an easy target.

    By the way, only ‘subjects’ PETITION. If we can’t self-govern, then why are we here?

  45. Anonymous
    December 30, 2012 at 8:44 am

    Cherry picking the data to find cases that back up your point of view may make you feel better, but it proves nothing. For every case of a country that had totalitarian regimes, gun control and mass murder of their own people, there are plenty of examples of countries with democratic systems, strict gun control and no state-sponsored mass murder of their own people. For example, Britain and most European countries have strict gun control, but no state-sponsored mass murder. Modern-day Germany has strict gun control, but no state-sponsored mass murder of their own people. And there are plenty of examples of places where guns were plentiful, but genocide still took place — Bosnia and Darfur, for example.

    As far as Switzerland goes, it’s simply not true that they ever issued “every adult” a rifle. They did not issue them to mentally ill people or criminals, and never did. They did, and do, carefully check the background of everyone they issue one of these guns to. And they are also moving away from their previous policy of having their citizens/soldiers keep their military-issue guns at home:

    “Switzerland has also been moving away from having widespread guns. The laws are done canton by canton, which is like a province. Everyone in Switzerland serves in the army, and the cantons used to let you have the guns at home. They’ve been moving to keeping the guns in depots. That means they’re not in the household, which makes sense because the literature shows us that if the gun is in the household, the risk goes up for everyone in the household.”

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/12/14/mythbusting-israel-and-switzerland-are-not-gun-toting-utopias/

    So, should we expect state-sponsored mass murder to break out in Switzerland? Not likely. Because the key variable is not guns at home or lack of guns at home, it’s totalitarianism. If the people let their government become totalitarian, a rifle in the home won’t protect them from oppression or even mass murder.

    I know it’s comforting to believe that it would, because then you’re relieved of the responsibility to work through the democratic process and through community organizing, popular education, mass protest and all the other non-violent ways of achieving change and preventing the development of totalitarianism, and you can instead just stay isolated in your home or local community and tell yourself that if things get too bad at least you’ll be able to defend yourself and your family…but it’s a false sense of security. Governments always have more and bigger guns, not to mention tanks, bombs, etc. The only real security is to work toward the most just and peaceful culture, and the most democratic and accountable political system as possible.

  46. Anonymous
    December 30, 2012 at 8:53 am

    The Egyptians and Tunisians overthrew their well-armed dictators without firing a shot, demonstrating that people power can be more powerful than firepower. Going back a bit further, the people of the former Soviet bloc overthrew one of the most militarily powerful nations on the earth, again by means of organizing, protest, and mass mobilization, not through military force. Same with many anti-colonialist victories, including the case most people are familiar with, the non-violent movement led by Gandhi in India. To be clear, there have also been plenty of cases where people did have to resort to armed struggle to throw off their oppressors, but in most cases they did so with weapons brought into their country from outside, or seized from government armories and gained from soldiers who turned against their oppressive leaders, not from arms kept in the homes of individual citizens.

  47. Anonymous
    December 30, 2012 at 9:10 am

    It’s hilarious when Americans who want lax gun laws bring up up Switzerland as an example of a country where there are a lot of guns. There are, but that is because every competent (non-mentally-ill, non-criminal) adult made ages 18-30 is required to serve in the militia, attend 3 months of full-time training, and do numerous refresher courses.

    So in that sense Switzerland’s system really does resemble the actual wording of the 2nd Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, which refers to the right to bear arms in the context of a well-regulated militia. Not exactly what most of our gun nuts here seem to have in mind, which is why it’s so ironic when they point to Switzerland.

    But hey, if you gun enthusiasts would like to enact a system like Switzerland’s, where you would undergo a careful background check and three months of full time training and be enrolled in a well-regulated state militia with ongoing training, and in exchange be issued a single rifle, sure, that sounds good to me! Hey, I’d even be willing to pay for that rifle with some of my tax dollars. And maybe they can even throw in a Swiss army knife as a bonus!

  48. Ponder Z
    December 30, 2012 at 9:31 am

    This whole post is BS and now you have censored my last post??? You through up numbers of 34 gun death a day? Total BS. You are now part of the lie. The same big gov movement to ban guns and take away the right of peaceful protest too. You do want to be able to assemble in public to protest dont you? You dont like the gov spying on your protests and calling you domestic threats do you? Then why do you back more gun control? Owning guns and the right of assemble are both in this inconvenient thing called the constitution.

  49. Ponder Z
    December 30, 2012 at 9:42 am

    The “Swiss” point is that all those evil black guns are in public hands. Responsible position. Now, lets look at the former commie state of Yugoslavia. State militia too, but many factions of thousand years of ethnic hatred. Lose of controlling party and the ethnic war begins. Switzerland is base on one ethnic group. Not a crossroads of civilization with a history of regional feuds. Same happened in Afghanistan when the commies left.

    So no Anon #47, your post is stupid and senseless.

  50. December 30, 2012 at 10:56 am

    Anonymous @45,
    ‘Communication Still Down On The West Coast”

    Oh good, a link to the WASHINGTON POST’s spoon-fed, government/corporation-owned
    mass media, radio ga ga.

    You use the word ‘democracy’ as if we have an agreed upon definition. Evidentally, we do not. Upon exiting the Constitutional Convention Benjamin Franklin was asked, “What did we get, a republic or a democratic government?” His reply was, “We gave you a republic . . .if you can keep it.” He also had this to say, “Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote.”

    I MEAN, do you see the word ‘democracy’ mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution, or the Bill Of Rights in amendment to it?

    International bankruptcy has existed since the time of the Pharohs, they are 70 years each. Lincoln, Post Master General of Springfield, Illinois, was placed on the penny because he was the first president of the second International Bankruptcy. When Lincoln was assassinated, and the loan/debt wasn’t re-paid (well, he was dead), we ‘defaulted’ into democracy. 1859 + 70= 1929. 1929 + 70 = 1999. November 2, 1999 U.S. INC’S third and final bankruptcy ended – with a $6 trillion dollar surplus. 38 States did a re-count to ‘cover’ the 90-day ‘grace’ period of a Trust. February 2, 2000 Bush Jr. was appointed President of the U.S. CORPSE ORATION. President of the Board/Commander-In-Chief. Democracy ended February 2, 2000.
    We also have different definitions of the words; govern (control), mente (mind), and poly (many), ticks (blood suckers). United (past-tense/dead) States is not a landmass, it’s a corporation.
    The right of self-government does not comprehend the government of others.

    I’d say, with regards to one other main reason, that Switzerland appears as ‘neutral,’ is because the IMF building is located there.

  51. Just Watchin
    January 3, 2013 at 7:18 am

    The New York paper that posted gun permit owner info has hires armed guards. Such irony…http://www.cnn.com/2013/01/02/us/new-york-gun-permit-map/index.html

  52. January 4, 2013 at 12:53 am

    I do stand corrected on: Portland, Milwaukee, Wilmington, Seattle, Oakland, all were covered nationally. Though not as intensely as those immediately after Sandy Hook.
    I cannot prove that corporate media bends to pressure from powerful lobbies, such as the NRA. Anymore than I can prove that ALEC is responsible for most of the bills put forward by the republicans. But nonetheless, it’s true.
    The NRA, on the radio accuses the press of sensationalizing gun violence, and suddenly the stories about gun violence are replaced with the “issue” of “Good Guy’s with guns.” Pure coincidence I’m sure.
    I know the president listens to his wealthy donors, though I can’t prove it.
    I know the democratic leadership has thrown the unions under the bus to serve their corporate bosses, but I can’t prove it.
    Yeah, Yeah: hard to prove propaganda, when there’s so many idiots who don’t believe it exists in today’s America.

  53. Ponder Z
    January 5, 2013 at 6:18 am

    MD, if you know it real but cant prove it, you may be a little “…….paranoid……”.

    Well of course propaganda is real, relax you probably aren’t “…….paranoid……”. I see it just the opposite. The Portland shooter jammed his gun and at that point a man with a concealed weapon aimed, but didnt shoot the gunman. Bystanders were directly behind the gunman. Then the gunman killed himself. This story is not easy to find. So where is the propaganda?

  54. Just Watchin
    January 5, 2013 at 7:14 am

    Liberals see a conspiracy behind every corner….

  55. Anonymous
    January 8, 2013 at 8:50 am
  56. Just Watchin
    January 9, 2013 at 5:35 pm

    The Obama crew wants to track guns. I hear they want to call the program “Fast and Furious ll “

  57. HUUFC
    January 9, 2013 at 7:05 pm

    JW, priceless!

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