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EVERGREEN PULP: Closing for good?
RUMOR MILL ON THE PULP MILL: Sources say Evergreen Pulp will be dismantled and moved to Vietnam or China.
The big news brewing at Evergreen has longtime employee Richard Marks worried.
Evergreen is owned by Chinese company Lee & Man, whose stocks are plummeting along with most of the market.
UPDATE: Richard Marks says: Evergreen Pulp to start in a few months.
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Is there any way that eyesore’s closing is not for good?
Sorry for the people out of work, but that’s what we have the Headwaters Fund for, right? *cough*
I don’t get why they would shut down for good after they did all the renovations?
There was a large cash investment and technology upgrade, the losses must be huge and the cost to ship must be a projected loss leader if this post has any weight.
Talk about an opening to have the greenest port on the west coast. bird watchers heaven, no stinch…buy stock in humboats… can the lefties actually fill the void with eco tourism when SF is taking it on the chin… this is interesting… a bit paranoid, but interesting.
Some or all of the recent upgrades at Evergreen may have been paid for by California taxpayers.
Because Samoa was placed in the Eureka Enterprise zone they qualify for millions of dollars in direct tax credits for new machinery.
So it is at least possible that we the people paid for the technology upgrade.
Maybe Rex Bohn or J. Warren Hockaday can enlighten us.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Why don’t you ask them Bill?
I think I just did ask them didn’t I? Of course they read this blog don’t they?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
I believe they actually have a job so maybe not. Have a peaceful and relaxing day Bill.
http://eurekaredevelopment.com/Resources/EnterpriseZone.cfm
State tax credit incentives*
Reduce your state income or franchise tax liability when you purchase certain types of machinery or equipment for use at your location. Qualified property consists of machinery or machinery parts used to: manufacture, process, assemble or fabricate a product; produce renewable energy resources; or control air or water pollution. Data processing and communications equipment, and motion picture manufacturing equipment also qualify.
Individuals, estates, trusts, partnerships and LLCs taxed as partnerships can claim a credit on the first $1,000,000 of qualified purchases.
Corporations can claim credit on the first $20,000,000.
Business expense deductions
Your business can save between one and twenty million dollars when purchasing large machinery and other types of manufacturing equipment. Tax savings up to $20,000 are also available on qualifying business equipment, furniture, fixtures and other depreciable personal property.
Hiring credit
Hire an individual from an economically disadvantaged “targeted group” as defined in IRC Section 51(d) of the Internal Revenue Code and save more than $31,000 over five years for each qualified employee.
You can also enjoy a state tax credit up to 150% of the current minimum wage over a five year period.
Contact the Redevelopment Agency for more
information about specific hiring credit incentives within the Enterprise Zone.
Net interest deductions for lenders
Banks or individuals lending to Enterprise Zone businesses can deduct additional related lending expenses. Deductions vary, from expenses incurred in making the loan, to a deduction equivalent to the net interest produced by the loan. In turn, zone businesses often receive more favorable rates or terms from participating lenders. Contact your preferred lending institution for further information.
* Contact the Franchise Tax Board or your tax accountant for further information.
Eureka is home to a wide variety of property located within the designated Enterprise Zone.
Related Links
29_ERDAbroch-Enterprise101903.pdf – Enterprise Zone program brochure
41_EurekaEnterpriseZone.pdf – Enterprise Zone Street Map
49_street_ranges10-15-06.pdf – Enterprise Zone Street Ranges
50_TEACensus1_8.pdf – Targeted Employment Area Map
51_teafinalstreetranges10-7-08.pdf – Targeted Employment Area Street Ranges
No, no you didn’t. Your computer monitor is not a living person, let alone two living people. Reality check for Bill.
Since the jobs of both of these people seem to be taxpayer subsidized a lot of you Republicans would call them “welfare jobs” or “entitlements” wouldn’t you?
So maybe they could take a few minutes off to answer an important question or two.
So Mr. Hockaday, Mr. Bohn, is Lee & Mann stripping the assets of the mill to ship overseas or not?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Would it be just too much to ask that you pose your question politely?
Please Mr. Bohn. Please Mr. Hockaway.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
CPR,
If you meet me in person you will find that I am normally civil to real people.
Even on this blog I am pretty civil to real people who identify themselves, like Rose, even if I completely disagree.
I don’t think that abusive internet trolls deserve any respect and they don’t get any from me.
Bohn and Hockaway are capable of speaking, let them speak. Using their real names. Or is accountability ONLY for poor homeless people?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
I’d like to see this blog: “Conversations with Bill.”
It’d be filled with his ranting questions and one sound effect: a dog barking in the distance. Oh, and the sound of his hit counter clicking each time he refreshes the page hoping that one of his victims will have shown up to respond.
Rex Bohn victimized by a question? Ha Ha.
I’ve never met Hockaday in person so I don’t know, maybe he could be victimized by a question. But not Rex Bohn.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Keep talking to the air Bill. It’s funny.
And why are Mr. Bohn and Hockaday accountable to you Bill? I’m fairly sure neither of these folks are subsidized by the government. Do you have information to the contrary? What exactly do you do for a living?
It’s not so funny to a couple of hundred workers. A year from now they will be flippin burgers to survive but Rex will still be dining at the Avalon.
I wonder if Evergreen Vice Presidents get a golden parachute?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Mr. Hockaday works for the Chamber of Commerce, subsidized by the taxpayers of Eureka.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Rex is no longer employeed with EPI as of yesterday
As far as Evergreen Pulp, it looks like it has received lots of subsidies through the Eureka Enterprise Zone program. Rex Bohn can tell us if that is true or not.
If Evergreen has received taxpayer subsidies (I think that they have) then Rex Bohn’s job is a taxpayer funded entitlement.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
You obviously have information regarding Mr. Bohn’s employment contract others don’t have. And his dining preferences. Either that or you’re just totally full of shit and you compement that with a nasty slanderous disposition unencumbered by basic human decency.
Scolded again by an anonymous coward. I might break down and cry.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Well what is it Bill? Do you have information to back all of your slander or am I totally out of line? The imagination of Bill does not constitute facts.
Bill,
Asking Rex Bohn about enterprise zone tax credits would be just like one of the mill workers. Bohn, I believe is (or was)salesman for Evergreen; he wouldn’t know the first thing about tax credits.
Ask the acconting department – I’m sure they read this blog about as much as Rex Bohn does.
Have a less ignorant day.
Adam
Does an Evergreen Pulp Vice President get a golden parachute or not? That is a perfectly good question.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Who are you posing this question to, Bill?
Who’s to day whether they do or not. That’s up to their board, or their parent company.
What business is it of yours, or mine for that matter? If you are a shareholder then certainly it is your business – do you hold Evergreen stock in your portfolio Bill?
Have a less ignorant day,
Adam
People would like to know, is the pulp mill closing for good or not? It’s a simple question.
If Rex Bohn can’t answer it, then who can?
Hundreds of workers and their families must plan for their future now, and they have seen how much compassion Humboldt County shows it’s less fortunate.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
So, in other words Bill, you just want your curiousity satisfied.
That answer is to your golden parachute question – really, you ask so many questions, interchanging them with other questions that you ask that it is absurd.
To answer whether or not the mill is closing,
Rex Bohn may be a vice president of Evergreen, but I doubt he has much say in the corporate affairs of Lee and Mann. I seriously doubt that he knows much more than you or I at this point – actually I am sure that he knows more than you.
Have a less ignorant day,
Adam
The path out of ignorance is to ask the right questions and to insist upon adequate answers.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
George, where is Osama? I know your read this blog. I await your answer.
Have an interesting day,
Chill
Rex no longer works for Evergreen as of yesterday. He received his final check and will never return to work for Evergreen. So that means that he is no longer Vice Pres…..HELLLOOOOOOOO
Lee & Man is trading at 6% of its 52 week high – $2.20 vs $37.00.
Their web site is down: http://www.leemanpaper.com/
The closing of the mill will put a $500,000 dent in the Harbor District’s income. That is the yearly amount paid by Evergreen in ship fees. The loss of that once a month ship to the mill will also call into question the need for the 2 well paid Bar Pilots.
Not only the income stream, no reason to keep the deep port harbor in place…
Are Rex Bohn and his sidekick Arkleyville Mayor Virginia Bass going to tell the truth? The shutdown of Evergreen is permanent, not temporary. Don’t any of the local so-called journalists have common sense? These jobs aren’t coming back to Eureka.
WTF is Rex Bohn going to say? Do you really think that an employee of a humongous corporation is going to have any inside knowledge?
WTF does the Eureka Mayor have to do with a pulp mill in Samoa? She is not an employee there – hasn’t been one for quite awhile.
Doesn’t 1:29 have any common sense?
Rex Bohn is going to say nothing because he DOES NOT WORK FOR EVERGREEN ANYMORE!!! As for the mayor she hasn’t worked at the mill since January. God you people are morons!
Well, it’s pretty sad that the taxpayers subsidize equipment for the pulp mill to keep it a profitable operation. Now, apparently, they are going to move that equipment overseas. So, the taxpayer is screwed as well. Why do we give loopholes to companies who end up leaving anyways??
Oh, and expect your water bill to go up another 20%-40% as it did when the other pulp mill closed. While it will be good to have that water return to the Mad, Evergreen was the single largest consumer of water and payer of water bills….
Wow, you took Bill’s wild rant and accepted it as fact.
What I pointed out is that Evergreen is in the Enterprise zone and then I asked the question: Did Evergreen get tax credits for the machinery improvements or not?
I think it is most likely that they did. But we are awaiting a definitive answer.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Damn the city and damn any business that doesn’t own a crystal ball. Damn them for not operating their business until it runs into the ground. They owe as that much. They owe us the sight of their company going bankrupt. And double damn them for not single-handily fixing the entire US economy so that they can operate at a profit. Damn, damn, damn!
May God have mercy on their sinful souls,
Have a peaceful day,
Love eternal,
FOB
My post from 817 this a.m.:
Some or all of the recent upgrades at Evergreen may have been paid for by California taxpayers.
Because Samoa was placed in the Eureka Enterprise zone they qualify for millions of dollars in direct tax credits for new machinery.
So it is at least possible that we the people paid for the technology upgrade.
Maybe Rex Bohn or J. Warren Hockaday can enlighten us.
Or… none of the recent upgrades were paid for by taxpayers.
Bill, either way, your point is absolute rubbish. The company isn’t closing shop here ‘just cuz.’ Our economy is in the toilet and many other countries are going down with us. Read the newspaper. Watch TV. Visit news web sites. Get informed. You can’t piss on a company for massive economic forces beyond its control. You are simply complaining because you hate tax credits to begin with. Please, we’ve already heard this record from you a dozen times. Play something else for once.
God forbid we should talk about the tens of thousands of jobs created in our state alone with the help of tax credits. It’s unnatural for people to work 8 hours a day. We should be hunters and gatherers. God meant for us to be nomadic homeless sheep.
God forbid as well we should talk about the paranoid Water Board and their Kaitlin-induced corporate paranoia.
With the pulp mill’s closure, our water rates for Eureka households will skyrocket even more than they have the last four years Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap has been in office.
What’s more, all of Kaitlin’s prattle about our “local water rights” will evaporate when we don’t have any more commercial clients to sell the water we pump out now to.
We need new leadership to bring in new jobs and keep our water rates low, which is why Eureka voters will dump fringe Green Kaitlin this November.
Why don’t we solve all these problems and more and just stick a big CLOSED FOR BUSINESS sign on the bay and all the Humboldt County borders. Mike Buttner would be happy with that, right Mike???
Blame Eureka City for your rates. Has nothing to do with Water Board. Everyone that purchases water from Water Board will share in the cost at an agreed rate in each city or district’s agreement if Evergreen does not reopen. They basically subsidized our rates and agreed to pay for more water than they used. They use “raw water” which is not what we purchase. They may have to continue to pay Water Board for a while though.
Silly idea. Let’s pump water for people and not leave it to board members to recruit businesses to use more of the water meant for people. I didn’t realize being on the water board meant taking over the role of the county’s economic development staff.
Why don’t we start building some local factories where we control whether they pollute or not, how many of our resources they consume, and how they treat their workers?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Who exactly is this “we” Bill? YOU certainly won’t be part of that equation, so – who’s money are you wanting to spend?
“some local factories” to produce what?
Redevelopment Agency money. Private capital. County money. Any money we can find should go into local economic development and affordable housing. We need jobs.
Local factories to manufacture clothing and shoes for starters. If the global economy goes to hell we will still want to wear clothes.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Sweatshops? You’re advocating sweatshops?
I advocate the building of some local factories here in Eureka (and in greater Humboldt) with the aid of public money. The workers in the factories must be represented by independent unions. Part of the deal.
The factories must deal with their employees, their workers fairly. Part of the deal.
The factories must be ecologically acceptable. Part of the deal.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Redevlopment Agencies can provide the infrastructure to make it feasible to build a factory Bill, but they will not build a factory itself. That has to come from your second suggestion – private capital.
That you suggest private capital is hilarious, as you have railed against corporations and businesses since you have been on this blog.
The County has no funds to contribute.
There still remains the matter of what businesses would want to come up here, Bill – companies that would have to deal with the lack of infrastructure to get their product in and out of the County.
Even if the global economy goes into the crapper, it is still going to be a lot cheaper to purchase clothing made elsewhere than clothing and shoes manufactured here – especially clothing and shoes manufactured at the wages that you want others to pay the employees. People are going to take the 6 dollar shirt made in Malasyia 99 times out of a hundred, instead of the 106 dollar shirt that is the same, only made here.
Have a less ignorant day
Adam
Sorry Bill.
NO DEAL.
The county has the Headwaters Fund.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
If not in a factory, where do you expect people to work? Do you plan on retraining these people to be bill collectors for Security National?
Or are you going to tell them to go get a job at Sun Valley Farms?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Doesn’t the Harbor District owe the Redevelopment Agency $1,500,000 or so? From 10 years ago when they dredged the channel pursuing the Republican tourist fantasy? They could pay it back now and we could use it for seed money for some eco-friendly industrial development.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
And with the pulp mill closing, water rates will probably spike, since that’s the last commercial client for the water district…Kaitlin’s attitude is so anti-business and hostile to industry, likely bidders on those mill sites aren’t exactly going to expect much cooperation from local government.
Vote for higher water rates and fewer jobs, the socialist Green way, if you want to keep Kaitlin in office.
Vote for me. My opponent is a leftist.
Vote for me. My opponent is an organizer.
Vote for me. My opponent is a woman.
Bill,
You weren’t even around here ten years ago, so please stop speculating on stuff you don’t have a clue about.
The headwaters fund could perhaps provide some seed money – but you (and this is a big one, something that you havent been able to get) NEED TO ENTICE A BUSINESS TO COME HERE – and you HATE corporations / businesses.
I dont know how to break it to you, but wanting eco friendly industrial development and enticing industry here (because the govt isnt going to go into business, bill) are two different things.
We simply do not have the infrastructure necessary – port, roads or rail to entice industry here, Bill.
Have a less ignorant day.
Adam
We don’t have to entice any businesses to come here. We just have to build our own businesses.
Heck, just building a couple of factories will put lots of union carpenters, electricians and plumbers to work.
Just putting up a few affordable housing units will put a lot of union carpenters, electricians and plumbers to work. Maybe even a few roofers and painters.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Playing the feminist card in a water district race, what a joke. The general manager of the whole district is a woman, has been long before Kaitlin decided to move to town. So how does the district have a problem with women?
FYI Kaitlin, a majority of women in this city support fluoride keeping their kids’ teeth healthy.
And as far as the government going into business, “Adam”, our government now owns the largest insurance company in the world and the largest mortgage bank in the world, and now owns big chunks of the nine largest commercial banks in the United States.
This is socialism. The problem is that it is Republican socialism, corporate socialism, corporatism, fascism, or national socialism. (Take your pick.) Under national socialism you exist to serve the corporation.
It is not democratic socialism. Under democratic socialism the corporations exist to serve the people.
have
Ahh, ok, so Bill’s thing is that we’re all Marxists.
Bill is simply ignorant of economics. No wonder he’s backing Kaitlin.
It looks looks like the ship is leaving.port, forever or not, who can say but the owners. They won’t be talking, that’s for sure. In the mean time, it looks as if one of Humboldt’s greatest economic asset is heading to Asia. If you haven’t read the links on this story, you should. This is one more shock to Eureka’s economy and 1990’s Frank isn’t talking about it. He is not talking about the ice plant closing, a very big blow to our fishermen.. Yes the ship is leaving port. It may be the last.
It’s a Chinese company. They’ll be hungry to open another one in a half an hour.
This is a sad note in the continuing saga of those brave souls who try to bring good jobs and harbor trade to our port. Not only do they have to fight the sizable regulatory climate in CA, but they also have to endure the loons who challenge every positive development under the guise of the environment.
Chris – I don’t think you can honestly blame environmentalists. Lee & Man got caught up in the worldwide economic downturn. They did a great job of meeting the legitimate standards for clean air. But to blame that on the closing is shortsighted.
I guess there is a real need to be positive:
From Richard Marks – “Positive News: I have been assured this by Evergreen CEO David Tsang. He said Lee & Man has every intention to re-start the plant in a window of 3 to 6 months into the future.”
Evergreen Pulp to start in a few months!
Baloney. Mike, do you even read what you write? When Lee & Man installed the new clean air equipment it short circuited and burned the entire economy. Then the fire spread to Canada and Mexico and to ships at our ports and here we are today with the entire world’s economy in peril, all because of the damn environmentalists who wanted clean air in Eureka.
Mike….
“the loons who challenge every positive development under the guise of the environment.”
Are not environmentalists at all.
Perhaps. But the knobs who make such statements are solidly anti-environmentalist.
knobs?
Kinda hard to tell who any of the knobs are anymore. But, point taken.
Should have said – “Are not always environmentalists.”
And Mike is right too. There’s a lot of external economic pressure that is outside any sort of local knob control.
But, 200 good paying jobs with decent benefits and family security are damned hard to lose. This knob wishes the best for Richard, his members and the families.
Perhaps “loons” is a more acceptable word.
Whatever the proper insult, you’re right about the blow from losing 200 decent jobs. Difficult times are upon us.
Just wait until you see your water rates triple while the incumbents on the Water Board twiddle their thumbs. Then you’ll really be asking some questions.
How did the board members get magical thumbs that triple our water rates? Is Barbara Eden on the board?
F**k that skanky eyesore. Dismantle it and use it for scrap metal to be sent to China to make into lead-laced children’s toys to sell in the new Wallmart in Fortuna.
Sounds like they are going to try to keep the place running to me. All they have invested in it (40 million?) points to trying to make it work. I don’t think they are ready to cut their losses yet.
The skanky smoke tower is not going away.
I my opinion, a lot of our local problems stemmed from having ugly plants across the bay. Who wants to look at it or smell possibly cancerous smoke coming from so close? Would our area have been better off had we not whored out the peninsula to mill jobs? I know it supported a lot of families, but now we have the only beachfront property are in the state (practically) dedicated to industry and ugliness instead of using it for it’s natural beauty an potentials for quality of life for our citizens. I think the right direction is to make the peninsula lovely and return it to a more natural state, but allow people to build a nice community again out there.
Don’t think I am against the jobs they created, or the mill who supported so many people here for all those years- I just see the current industrial use as limited, declining, and unhealthy at this point and more of a detriment to our area overall.
Ah, Heraldo what has happened to you? A comment that actually implies that you understand basic economics principles and the crippling effect that excess (unnecessary) regulation has on business (and jobs). Further that you might consider the need to “loosen up” regulation to allow businesses to subsist other than hydroponics shops housed in yurts. Would you really limit rules to those truly necessary to protect workers, the public, and the environment and not just a hidden attempt at bazaar social engineering. Next thing you know we will see you advocating being able to live in the hills.
Real life is a bitch. I am sad for the employees at Evergreen but perhaps it will give us all a good dose of economic reality and the need to encourage a DIVERSE economy. We cannot survive on the “old boys” jobs in timber but neither can we cannot limit our options to eco-hostels and supposedly green business either. We need a broad base, our disparate groups need to work together.
Off topic: how come 2:33 — who uses a four letter word as part of their name — feels obligated to f%^k out the same word when they use it in their post. People are endlessly interesting.
Could be the name is a reflection of romantic fantasies and the word posting is properly used as a verb.
7:51, do you feel that the tax funded bail out and it’s promise of more regulation was unnecessary, and the market would have corrected itself?
Pulp mill sold
The Times-Standard
Article Launched: 10/17/2008 10:14:56 AM PDT
http://www.times-standard.com/ci_10746231
The Chinese company that bought the Samoa pulp mill in 2005 has sold the plant, according to a filing with the Stock Exchange of Hong Kong.
Lee and Man Paper Manufacturing, in a filing dated Oct. 15, announced that it has divested itself of two subsidiary companies that owned Evergreen Pulp. Lee and Man sold the companies to an unnamed buyer for $200 million Hong Kong — about $26 million U.S. dollars — to be transferred in payments through March 2010.
”The transaction provides a good opportunity to enable (Lee and Man) to dispose of its interests in USLM and HKLM for cash so as to allow the group to pursue its principal business in China with better return,” the filing reads.
The deal came as Evergreen CEO David Tsang assured union leaders and the media that the plant — which announced a temporary closure to begin this week — would reopen in three to six months. The mill has poured more than $40 million in improvements into the plant since it bought it, and was profitable for most of the time it operated under Evergreen. But the pulp market tanked, and the mill began to go delinquent on its bills, prompting suppliers to seek protection from the courts.
—
Chris Crawford wrote “the loons who challenge every positive development under the guise of the environment.:
Chris–maybe you should ask the Harbor District why they said no to the shipbuilders from Santa Rosa who wanted to start a shipbuilding facility at Fields Landing. The Harbor District said no to 100+ union jobs that would have had almost zero environmental impacts, almost 100% economic benefits to Humboldt Bay. WHY???
Evergreen has split off from it’s parent company of Lee and Man and will be a stand alone entity. I will have more later.
Richard has it right. This is effective 10-15-08. Can’t tell who the buyer is yet.
Hank has a little more info, plus the disclosure form.
grab the cash and run, or grab a boat full of pulp and bail before the creditors catch you. man the communists are quick studies on raw capitalism…
McKinleyvillain- man you know so much about the harbor district – whatcha got – an inside source??? I haven’t heard about any of those things – you must be friends with Mike Buttner. He KNOW EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING – just ask him –
Adam,
Are you saying that there was no loan by the Redevelopment Agency 10 years ago?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Adam Says:
October 16, 2008 at 4:48 pm
Bill,
You weren’t even around here ten years ago, so please stop speculating on stuff you don’t have a clue about.
We all need to realize that the jobs lost are high paying jobs. If we don’t aggressively start courting manufacturing to come to this area our whole economy is going to be in big trouble (already is) and we need to get our heads out of the sand. This is not passing judgement on pulp, fishing, timber, inflatable boats, what ever. We have already lost a lot of time. Its time to figure out how to grow our economy, not watch it go out to sea. Humboldt County is about to loose big time if we don’t get it together.
Nice thoughts Monitor, but we’d rather sit around and complain about tax credits and other incentives that encourage businesses to thrive.
If the tax credits encouraged business to thrive, then the business would be thriving wouldn’t it?
Instead it is closed. The truth is the tax credits lined the pockets of some corporation somewhere. This is corporate socialism, or fascism. In this case it is FAILED corporate socialism.
What we need to do now is marshal our resources and build a factory or two. The process of building the factory will employ construction workers. Once the factory is built we will produce, once again locally, some of the goods that we consume daily. The factory will also provide employment for some people.
The situation is better here in Humboldt than it may be other places. We are fortunate and we have time to work through this but not too much time to waste.
Anyone who is interested in starting a factory here, whether you are an organizer, a union person, someone in government or NGO, or private capitalist please contact me at bill@eurekaworkers.org.
Please let’s get serious. I will meet in person civily with anyone right middle or left who is serious about the economic future of Humboldt.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
have a peaceful day,
Bill
And let’s start building some AFFORDABLE HOUSING.
Look around we have a 5-10 year supply of single family “homes” and far too many of them are sitting vacant.
We can put some carpenters, plumbers, painters and electricians to work right now by starting on some housing projects. God knows they won’t be building any houses for a few years.
Let’s make them no bigger than 10 units. Let’s scatter them around the city. We can even mandate that they be Victorian in design and employ an architect or two and preserve the look and feel of the city.
We need some Rooseveltian style direct employment now.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Monitor, you’re on to something as far a getting it together.
But the difficulty in “getting it together” here IMHO is that that “bringing jobs” isn’t an effort akin to “bringing the gold ore in”, “bringing trees into the mill”, or “bringing fish in from the sea”. Those activities are based on the knowledge that the gold, trees, and fish are already there and can be moved in. Bringing those things “in” has traditionally been the sole goal of businesses in Humboldt. “Jobs” came about only as a byproduct of those endeavors. The principal job ability required to “bring things in” was physical strength/endurance. The main job skills required was following established procedures precisely and being prompt/reliable. Experience, but little knowledge or education was required to be a superior performer.
Thinking this is still be the way that jobs will be readily available here is just incorrect. The gold, trees, and fish are no longer there as profusely or as readily taken as before. The “low hanging” fruit has been picked. That’s a permanent condition.
However a number of people in the area are completely and personally invested in that model of what jobs are. Their conviction that those jobs are “out there” to be brought in is flatly untrue and their insistence on seeking what isn’t there is what prevents Humboldt county from “getting it together”.
The work that can be created here are jobs that require specialized knowledge of scientific principle and skills of being able to use tachnology to create products and services of high value using minimum inputs from the local environment base. These jobs require the ability to quickly recognize changes in markets and continually adapt the offered services and products.
The industries that these jobs are located in have been identified by the prosperity network and there has been some development. The economy has been realtively stable, despite lumber, mining, fishing, and manufacturing losses. But until the community has a consistent vision, ineffective and wasted efforts to “bring in” jobs that can’t exist will continue to slow job creation.
The paradigm is shifting, we just don’t know where to…
The new paradigm isn’t a fixed thing that’s well defined and can be seen in a glance. Its not a factory that makes large volumes of a particular product for a fixed market, using specialized machines that have a large cost, financed over a long time through maximum utilization.
The new paradigm is a workplace that can produce many different kinds of products using generalized machines that can be quickly adapted to create a large class of goods that are defined by the creativity, knowledge and understanding of the workers. The machines have fairly short lifetimes but substantial residual value, and will produce their own replacements, at least in part.
Tax cuts don’t create jobs. Demand creates jobs. Demand is created by consumers having money to spend, not by tax cuts for employers.
QuamNews: L&M Paper Sells US Paper Pulp Making Biz at HK$200 Mln
17 Oct 2008
QuamNews
Lee & Man Paper (2314) said it disposed the entire interest in USLM Acquisition, Inc. and HKLM Acquisition, Inc, (“USLM & HKLM”) at a consideration of HK$200 million.
USLM & HKLM were paper pulp manufacturers in the USA. The gain from the transaction was estimated at about HK$1 million and the consideration was decided based on the net book value of the assets of USLM & HKLM. The transaction was completed on 15 October.
Raymond Lee, CEO of Lee & Man Paper, said, “The profit margins of USLM & HKLM have been dwindling significantly because of the continuing increasingly production cost in USA. With what’s best for long-term development of the group in mind and the pulp line in Chongqing plant has started production, we decided it is the right time to dispose of the business. The move has freed resources for us to concentrate on growing our containerboard and pulp businesses in China with lower production costs.”
Lets look at what we have to work with, a capable work force which is motivated and trainable. We have lots of cut and processed wood. Hoopa is building modular units for housing. Double wides and triples are 60 to 70% wood. Why not here. The remanufacturing of raw lumber is a natural. our labor goes into the final product at least twice before it leaves the county. That is just using the raw material we already have. We have a port that can bring us all the materials we need for almost any business and transport it out of here as well. We have one of the most enjoyable places to live that one could imagine. It’s time to aggressively promote our selves. Invite people like Warren Buffet to help us vision how to use what we have. T. B. Pickens would see the wind power possibilities in a second. Think outside the box.
Well said Monitor.
But remember the Harbor District has written into its Management Plan to do everything it can to keep bayside property zoned marine dependent. All those acres around the bay can only be used for industrial purposes dependent on the bay.
Why would any developer of any factory want to “meet” Bill? He has no professional skills and no resources to contribute beyond his own hot air.
Run for office and get elected like your idol Larry and then you can claim to speak for (some of) the people, Bill. Until then you’re just another blog blowhard like the rest of us.
There have been numerous small manufacturers that might have come to Humboldt County but they needed 24 hour FedEx to get their goods somewhere else which we don’t have. The FedEx planes we have can’t fly directly to the hub in Memphis. Many small manufacturers make small parts that are necessary to build something else. In the Bay Area, some of those companies can’t make more parts as they can’t get enough space on FedEx to ship them and need to move somewhere else. We certainly have enough workers here and enough land to build on but the vision is short sighted in manufacturing.
We need factories first that produce goods that we consume here in the Humboldt region. We don’t need to ship clothing and shoes out of this region, but we will need to wear them.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
With a population of less than 140,000 we don’t consume enough of anything to build a factory for.
True 11:13. Bill thinks folks will eagerly line up to pay $129 for that toilet seat rather than the $19 model from China. He wants the Peoples Republic of Arcata concept to be spread county wide- shut our borders, dam up the bay, no one gets in or out. We’ll checkpoint Charlie highways 101, 299, and 36 too. He and George Clark think the pulp mill can be turned into one of George’s magic incubators to save our county. They’re both insane. I repeat: insane. Nobody talks about George’s insane incubator concept because it’s just that. It is such inward, communist, pull up the drawbridge philosophy that will only result in people and business moving away. They will not stop until all tax revenue is driven out of the county. Plain and simple: they’re communists, fucking communists who hate working families. Folks just aren’t buyin’ this shit.
“Folks just aren’t buying this shit”? That completely describes the posting. Think some others here have opined that Big BM is just that. I can’t improve on that wisdom.
The Hong Kong market filing quoted by Mike B. on the North Coast Journal blog doesn’t sound like the pulp mill is going to be opening anytime real soon, depending on who the new owner is.
“Raymond Lee, CEO of Lee & Man Paper, said, “The profit margins of USLM & HKLM have been dwindling significantly because of the continuing increasingly production cost in USA. With what’s best for long-term development of the group in mind and the pulp line in Chongqing plant has started production, we decided it is the right time to dispose of the business. The move has freed resources for us to concentrate on growing our containerboard and pulp businesses in China with lower production costs.”
That new owner is the Worth Pick Group Limited. A new company founded as of January this year and located in the Virgin Islands.
According to Evergreen in the ER Worthy Pick is still part of Lee & Man:
“What the parent company, Lee and Man, have done is restructured Evergreen Pulp under a new division. By restructuring, we have much more flexibility at Evergreen to borrow funds,” said Tsang.
So lets see what has gone on:
Lee & Man sells USLM & HKLM.
USLM & HKLM own Evergreen Pulp.
Lee & Man says the deal is because “…continuing increasingly production cost in USA… we decided it is the right time to dispose of the business.”
USLM & HKLM is sold to newly incorporated Worthy Pick Group Limited.
Worthy Pick Group Limited is new devision of Lee & Man.
Makes sense.
Ah, yes, the good ole free market system…
Big Boss Man thinks that American workers are too stupid or too lazy to produce a good at a quality and price that is competitive in the market.
I think that American workers are capable. I think we can prove it right here in Humboldt County and Eureka.
It is the other side in this debate that wants to limit your employment choices to the slave labor minimum wage, no benefits “service sector.”
Their answer is to build more hotels and restuarants for you to “serve” in.
Who do you get to serve? That is your choice in their world.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Somehow, I think it’s toast. Like McCain.
This blog is turning toasty, judging by the drop off in comments to almost zero today. Anything to do with Heraldo’s massive censorship of political speech which disagrees with his own?
Some liberal you are.
They’re only delayed while being checked for nasty stuff, aren’t they?
Lee and Mann was to supposed to pay some hefty fines. I wonder if this is an elaborate way to evade them?
My neighbor Rex escaped with a golden parachute. What do say about that Richard?
9:39 pm: maybe it’s because no one could think of anything snarky to say about the woman who has devoted her life to taking care of Eureka’s homeless.
“Lee and Mann was to supposed to pay some hefty fines. I wonder if this is an elaborate way to evade them?”
Wouldn’t that be convenient? What DID ever come of the agency raid following the whistleblower incident?
If this money has not been repaid it should be repaid and used as seed money for local industrial development infrastructure projects. The tourist model has clearly failed.
http://www.humboldtbay.org/portofhumboldtbay/tariff/
Background
In order to increase the import/export opportunities and better
service existing deepwater commerce at the Port of Humboldt Bay, the
Humboldt Bay Harbor District examined the feasibility of deepening the
Port’s main shipping channels. Between 1988 to 2000, numerous
engineering, environmental and economic studies were completed by the
US Army Corps of Engineers and others which resulted in a preferred
project. More than $1 million dollars of Harbor District funds were
invested during this stage of project development. The preferred
deepening project involved deepening Humboldt Bay’s Bar and Entrance
Channels from -40′ to -48′ (MLLW) and deepening the North Bay and
Samoa Channels from -35′ to -38′ (MLLW). The Project was awarded to a
joint venture of Manson Construction of Washington and Bean-Stuyvesant
of Louisiana on June 4, 1999. Work began on August 5, 1999 and was
completed on April 18, 2000. Nearly 5 million cubic yards were
dredged.
Funding for the Deepening Project was split between the Corps of
Engineers and the Humboldt Bay Harbor District. The Corps is
responsible for 65 percent of the construction costs while the Harbor
District is responsible for the remaining 35 percent.This 35 percent,
or approximately $5,000,000, was extremely difficult for the Harbor
District to obtain. The majority of these funds were borrowed by the
Harbor District and included a $1 million contribution by the Eureka
Redevelopment Agency. After a great deal of research and discussions
with shippers, General Tariff No. 1 was enacted in order to provide a
mechanism to recover a portion of the annual debt service on the
borrowed funds.
The Harbor Deepening Project has always been a “business improvement”
project intended to improve economic conditions in Humboldt County.
The Board of Commissioners of the Humboldt Bay Harbor, Recreation and
Conservation District spent a great deal of time and effort to create
as fair, equitable, and non-discriminatory a funding program as
possible to ensure the completion of this regionally important
project.
It’s time to aggressively promote our selves. Invite people like Warren Buffet to help us vision how to use what we have. T. B. Pickens would see the wind power possibilities in a second. Think outside the box.
And WHY would you imagine that Warren Buffet would even consider offering help to this business hell hole? He is already the recipient of the concerted attack machine, and he hasn’t even done anything. You think he is a glutton for punishment?
And, even that aside, why do you look outside, and up, to find answers? They must come from ‘real’ people, from hard work, from a realistic business climate. It’s crazy to wish for some sugar daddy to come here and make it all better. Never gonna happen.
Perhaps. But the knobs who make such statements are solidly anti-environmentalist.
Anti-environmentalIST, yes, Anti-environment? NO.
Funny thing, that.
I’m just curious, heraldo…
What is it in this comment that prompted you to censor/edit it?
What’s with all the censored comments?
This is a place for free-wheeling discussion, is it not?
Do you delete comments on your blog Rose?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
stay on topic rose.
Bill loves class warfare, victimizing the do nothings of society and criminalizing the producers, the ones who take care of Bill with their tax dollars. It’s never a together thing with Bill et al, it’s always Us vs Them- Always. Without the Us vs Them, they would have no drum to beat. Always, always, always Looking to be offended, insulted, and searching for new ways to be “victimized.” Problems cannot be solved because then there would be nothing to complain about. No, problems must be sustained and kept alive so Bill can always point the finger. Division is what keeps problems flourishing and Bill and his friends feed on it. Evil republicans…yes evil because they’ll demand that you grow up, fend for yourself, and be a big boy, Bill. Bill epitomizes what is really wrong with our country today. I’ll bet you would have been received real well in the 1930s, Bill. Time to hand in your baby bottle, Bill, and put on the gloves.
That’d be “work gloves” Bill. I’m sure yours are not broken in.
I’ve actually worked in factories, BBM. Where do you work?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
BBM you are an idiot!
I actually work with our disabled citizens, Bill, folks who are totally Unable to fully help themselves. Yes, Bill, the Big Boss Man has compassion and delivers it every week. I do not, however, have any tolerance for whining, Capable, do nothings who want to transform our society into folks like them. What will happen, Bill, when your goal is achieved, and we’re all government dependent? Isn’t that what you want? Won’t the playing field be “fair” when everybody has nothing and we’re fighting over any remaining nipples to nurse on? Only Nancy Pelosi and Barney Frank could save us then. Misery and whining love company and it’s a popular platform these days. You must feel bad that you’re not paying your fair share of taxes, Bill. It’s not a difficult task to distinguish these very different groups, Bill, you just don’t want to hear it and accept any responsibility- such a waste of human capital and potential.
So you work for the government but you are afraid that my ideas will lead to all of us working for the government?
Please explain this pretzel logic to me. I am all ears.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Do you wear your “work gloves” when you are working with our disabled citizens?
have a peaceful and even funnier day,
Bill
Big Boss Man Says:
October 19, 2008 at 10:18 am
“That’d be “work gloves” Bill. I’m sure yours are not broken in.”
BBM, it is the whining from you that is counter productive. There are people who are lazy everywhere, in every income bracket and in every work place, I’ve had to do other peoples work and felt the chagrin, but I don’t go around whining that all people are lazy but me. You Mr. Boss Man have your shorts too tightly wound around your testicles, cut loose!
ahem, Rose, when you claim Warren Buffett hasn’t done anything to draw people’s ire around here, well, did you not know that he is the current owner of the $4 Klamath dams that PacificCorps owns? I’m sure Jill’s told you a little bit about the Klamath situation…but here’s the short version: PacificCorps walked away from the restoration settlement talks when their demand for $1 billion to remove the dams got rejected. Why the talks continued, and still do, without the dam owner is beyond me–the only thing I can think of is that it is a stall tactic. Keep the groups in talks so they can’t work on other avenues for dam removal.
If you want to learn more, go to the Clean Water certification hearing this Monday–1:30-3 at the Six Rivers National Forest Supervisor’s office in Eureka. See http://www.klamathriver.org/Action-Alerts.html for more info and hearings in other locations.
Wrong- it’s actually Private Enterprise for “evil profit”, Bill, and I’m off to pull some OT today and produce some Taxable Income to fuel your beloved programs. I and others produce, you bitch and produce nothing. Have a Productive Day taking from society, Bill.
Who pays your “private enterprise” for the care of these disabled citizens. It is the government. You are as dependent upon the government as they are. Is this not true?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
I’m sorry for my disabled friends who must work with BBM who says that they are unable to care for themselves or be productive. I know many disabled folks who do care for themselves and work as well, who the hell do you think you are? If we must meet your standards BBM and have an attitude like yours to be considered “productive” then I vote for production to stop on your prototype!
This conversation has been a blessing, Big Boss Man, because now we know that deep down inside you are a mild mannered bureaucrat and we really need never feel bullied again.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
In the sixties we dropped out because we didn’t agree with the system, the attitude, the insane demand that everyone be like the status quo. Warmongering, capitalism, bigotry and all the other negative aspects of a closed society is not freedom and liberty. I am a defender of the civil rights of every American, not just capitalists!
Today the Eureka Reporter revealed that the county has investments in Berkshire Hathaway, Warren Buffett’s empire:
http://www.eurekareporter.com/article/081018-stock-market-fall-is-no-surprise
I’m glad to hear you want to defend the rights of all, Kate. That must mean you share our concerns about Measure T as such a blatantly unconstitutional assault on free speech and equal protection.
Corporations should not be treated as individuals. Corporations should have no voice in government.
Do you ever have a orginal thought, or have you always just been a groupie.
Am amazed to write this, I sort of agree with Rose 8:02 that expecting a wealthy person to come in and “save” the local economy is unwise. But not for the reasons she gives: that its crazy to believe that Warren Buffett is stupid enough to be conned into investing it.
Monitor, I think you sincerely want sustainable economic prosperity, But it can’t be found by simply standing by Buffett’s door begging for spare change. Like the cliche’ goes “Change comes from within”. The basis of a stable economy in a rural area has to be developed by the local populace with an awareness of the global economy.
I’d add that the urge to get resources and ideas to simply rain down from a all knowing and capable “Warren Buffett” is exactly what the railroad/container port advocates promote with Goldman Sachs. Not having money is a challenge in building a business. Not having a clue is a nonstarter.
Humred to whom are you refering? “..there’s nothing new under the sun” Ecclesiastes 1:9
Nice one, HumRed. Regurgitating Democracy Limited’s propaganda is a tired excuse for some critical thinking on Kate Ascot’s part.
You should try actually reading the federal court’s injunction, Kate, which was written by a notably liberal judge in San Francisco, Susan Illston (she’s a Clinton appointee who also defended the free speech of a muslim advocacy group being attacked by Michael Savage).
She said the treatment of corporations compared to unions and other organizations was a violation of equal protection, and that the provisions of Measure T were so poorly drafted and so extreme that they violate the First Amendment protections for political speech.
Ecclesiastes 1:9, Just proved my point Kate.
Some of you talk like we are not now government dependent. Take away government dependence and what do you get, no highways, no economic stimulus, not hydro-power, no speed limits, no prisons, no schools, no stop lights, no flight controllers. How many No’s do you want? When is it enough government and when is it too little? Come on people, our Constitution, Declaration of Independence, and Bill of rights wouldn’t exist without GOVERNMENT!!! Did you flunk civics?
Who suggested that, Monitor? Thank goodness for our judicial branch, the only thing keeping Demockery Limited trickery from totally abrogating our Constitutional values.
Speaking of constitutional values, who is on the board of directors of our local ACLU chapter? Why is the right wing extremist Rose so happy with them at the moment?
I don’t see anyone bringing up the ACLU on this thread, Rose or otherwise. I don’t think a plant closing is a civil liberties issues.
I was responding to the one-note Davies campaign. When they post lies, I will respond wherever it is. They brought up the constitution, I responded.
“the only thing keeping Demockery Limited trickery from totally abrogating our Constitutional values.”
So anyone who disagrees with the thug tactics of Democracy Unlimited must, therefore, be Stephen Davies?
That makes a lot of sense. After all, Stephen Davies is pulling the puppet strings on the Times-Standard, the Eureka Reporter, the Eureka Chamber of Commerce, the Libertarian Party, the Republican Party, the Eureka Greens, the Mayors of Eureka and Fortuna, Chris Crawford, Eric Kirk, Rob Arkley, Robert Ziegler, John Campbell, Michael Machi, Brad Freeman, etc. etc. etc.
They all opposed Measure T, but it all must be Stephen’s fault. Riiiight…
But thanks for providing a good example of Democracy Unlimited-inspired bullying, it shows what a big threat Stephen must present to you in running against Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap.
Birds of a feather…….
Republicans, rightwingnuts, chambers of commerce and Rose.
Your last post speaks volumes about yourself, Davies.
I’m not Davies, but thanks for playing the GUESSING GAME!
So by your logic, we can assume that:
A. You are a member of Democracy Unlimited.
B. You are Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap, her boyfriend David Cobb, or someone else who bunks at the haunted house of DUHC.
C. You really really hate the ACLU for agreeing with the federal courts on the unconstitutionality of Measure T.
Oh, but wait, Stephen must control the federal courts too, right? Anything else just wouldn’t be tinfoily enough.
Eric Kirk is a right wing nut?
See that’s the problem with these losers Democracy Unlimited imports to Humboldt, they have no knowledge of local politics and history.
Eric Kirk is a leading supporter of Obama in our county, not to mention Clif Clendenen — shock — who is being supported by Kaitlin, who you’re busy shilling for!
Explain that one away, ACLUhater.
Who does Stephen Davies support for President?
Let’s ask Eric if he is proud to be included in that list of reactionaries that you submitted, Davies.
Is Christina Allbright good with the misogynistic campaign that Davies is conducting against Kaitlin? How about it Christina?
How should I know, and why should I care, to 9:47. Since he’s a Democrat, I would venture a guess that it’d be Obama.
As for whether Eric is proud or not, well, how should I know and why should I care? Eric Kirk wrote a long dissertation on why Measure T was flawed, and I think he managed to do it all by himself as a lawyer in his own right (unlike, say, anyone associated with Democracy Unlimited).
Davies’ number is on his SmartVoter page, why don’t you call him up and ask him yourself? My comments will just keep on appearing here, which should indicate I’m not him to any rational person who wants to test your ridiculous theory…but we’re not dealing with rationality when dealing with an ACLUhater like you.
It was at least worth a laugh to see you get all flustered over anyone mentioning the Constitution, since it’s Democracy Unlimited’s ultimate goal to tear it down.
Is that phone Stephen’s office? What’s the address? I would like to speak to him in person about a legal matter.
how sad ACLUWHO is to attack such an important organization in our country. the ACLU stands up for us against the PATRIOT ACT and torture. undermining them just for one ballot measure seen differently? thats the path of extremism and i know david cobb doesnt want to be seen as extremist.
Wasn’t Stephen Davies the attorney that sued the Rodoni family? How did that go? Did he win?
how sad ACLUWHO is to attack such an important organization in our country. the ACLU stands up for us against the PATRIOT ACT and torture. undermining them just for one ballot measure seen differently? thats the path of extremism and i know david cobb doesnt want to be seen as extremist!
It is sad that Stephen Davies and his 3 or 4 supporters in Eureka have taken one issue – Measure T – and corrupted the local political process with purely personal attacks and vitriol.
It is sad that they have brought the local ACLU into disrepute. We know that most of the members of the ACLU are decent folks. Let’s not let three or four misguided malcontents destroy the repute of the civil liberties movment.
The Stephen Davies thread is the one after this! This thread was about Evergreen. Loonies leave your lunacy on the appropriate thread! Yee.
“Corrupted the local political process?” I thought that’s what Measure T did, at least before the judiciary stepped in to restore Constitutional protections for free speech.
Isn’t it odd how Kaitlin gets a favorable piece in the Journal on behalf of her Water Board campaign, and still is trying to portray herself as persecuted?
Stephen Davies is on the board for the ACLU affiliate covering nearly the entire state of California. Does that mean the state ACLU is disreputable and destroyed too?
You are the one making personal attacks, DUHC troll, and they are paaahhhh-theticly weak and pointless. The ACLU will still be here after Kaitlin loses her water board seat, what’s really in jeopardy here is David Cobb’s master plan to run his girlfriend Kaitlin for Jeff Leonard’s Eureka City Council seat in 2010.
What is the status at the Mill, Richard?
Calling candidates you disagree with lunatics, Richard? How mature. Only if we had your wisdom on the Board of Supervisors, so you could shout childish names at members of the public appearing to testify.
10:54am The anonymous commenters are the lunatics. I have nothing against Stephen Davies.
Oh, you are so mature to hide behind an anonymous cloak. I have the guts to put my name on comments.
You’re name is Samoasoftball? Really? So is that the first name, the last name, or do you just use the one name?
The way the Chinese have taken care of the Mill in the past three years, it is not worth two cents
So what is the difference between standing at the foot of the mighty Goldman Sacks and the mighty Warren Buffett? They are both a metafore for getting creative in finding solutions to our local economic ills. Certainly Home Depot is not a real answer, remanufacturing our our biggest resource, wood, is. Even a historic tourist train running from Samoa to Shivley has possibilities. The Cass County Railroad in West Virginia is a huge tourist draw. Our natural beauty is as yet only partially tapped. Did you know that Redwood National park is building the first major lodge in our national parks in many years? Some of these things can be done now. This is the stuff I am talking about.
That is Kate a Scot. There is no judge with any worth that would say a corporation is an individual and should be treated as such in America. Groups of individuals make corporations who already have free speech and voting power, to add such to a corporation is an insult to freedom. Big power and money should be downplayed in government, enough of the rip off that has been the ruination of the middle-class and increase in poverty.
Should this county decide to break from big corporate power and create our own economic base that is consistent with the resources available to us we could be out of debt and on the road to eco sustainability and a good life for even the poor. More of the same means exactly that….get real….real!
This is Kate a Scot. There is no judge with any worth that would say a corporation is an individual and should be treated as such in America. Groups of individuals make corporations who already have free speech and voting power, to add such to a corporation is an insult to freedom. Big power and money should be downplayed in government, enough of the rip off that has been the ruination of the middle-class and increase in poverty.
Should this county decide to break from big corporate power and create our own economic base that is consistent with the resources available to us we could be out of debt and on the road to eco sustainability and a good life for even the poor. More of the same means exactly that….get real….real!
Should this county decide to break from big corporate power and create our own economic base that is consistent with the resources available to us we could be out of debt and on the road to eco sustainability and a good life for even the poor. More of the same means exactly that….get real….real!
Get specific, kate. How do you plan to accomplish this? Community currency? Funny money? Secession from the Union? Martial Law? Round up all the rich people and put them in internment camps? Take over their homes?
They tried this before. I recommend you rent and watch Dr. Zhivago. Pay particular attention to the scenes in the home in the city. Burning the kitchen chairs to keep warm.
And smoke a few more. Sleep and dream of your Utopia.
Kate A Scot is Kathleen Anderson, one of Verbena’s clique of radicals.
Interesting that the Harbor District has postponed their next meeting for a week. There should be a lively discussion regarding Evergreen when they do meet. The closing of the mill will cost the Harbor District some $40k a month in income and likely mean layoffs for the Bar Pilots.
Shit. I thought it was the Fascists on the right that were building internment camps for people like Verbena, Kate, possibly myself, etc. And all Kate was proposing was a more sustainable system designed to help and benefit ALL of us.
When and Why would Humboldt “secede from the union”? Probably after the Chinese troops and US National Guard started rolling up in tanks on the 101, to protect Chinese assets defended by your tax dollars.(I am not anti-Chinese, just anti-oppression).
Hippies and Rednecks alike WOULD join together for the protection of our way of life. I don’t think that any of us would allow for that, and I would bet that bridges and roads would be “inaccessible” by the invaders.
What Kate is proposing is a sustainable local system that will ultimately be adopted here locally due to peak oil, “peak freshwater”, global warming, financial collapse, and all of the other worries that threaten our existence. If you watch Fox news like Rose and all of the other “sheep”, you blame the left. If you watch CNN like the rest of the herd, you blame the right. I believe the line drawn between them is a function of suppression in this subversive system, and that the entire flock is fooled.
You know Rose, if you are ever down and out, houseless and on the streets of Eureka or whatever, you can find help from caring and conscientious individuals who wont judge you for your opinions or appearance. I’d give you a kickdown if I have it Rose because you are person, a human being.
After most of you homeowners lose your homes due to shady lenders and capitalist tricksters, maybe you will see that democracy was supposed to protect the individual, not the corporation.
Now that our so called democracy has failed us, AGAIN, I hope to see more of you tomorrow in the streets.
How many bong hits did it take to come up with THAT?
You should go volunteer for the Kaitlin Sopoci-Belknap campaign, that kind of paranoid “they’re coming to get us” rhetoric fits right in there.
Its just called socialism. Its worked so well in other countries Jeff wants it here. Would it not be easier for you to move Jeff.
Nope. Can’t. The rest of the world hates us. They hate you too, HumRed. They hate most Americans. They have good reason to.
We are all in this sinking boat together. We all need to learn how to live and work together, despite our differences. I fear that all of us up here are in great peril. What would you do to protect yourself and your family? We would have great strength in numbers. If and when it goes down, we all need to take care of each other.
They don’t want us in power but they want to dress like us. The whole world is dressing like us.
anonymous is charles douglas, smut writer for the eyesore….aye, aye Jeff!
The whole world dresses like us cuz they have to it used to be called monopolizing the market. I prefer to wear local clothes, nice if we could manufacture them here. More ethnic living, less corporate droning.
Charles Douglas hasn’t written for the Eye in about 8 years. In fact, I’m pretty sure Charles and Kevin hate each other’s guts. But by all means Kate, fill us in with more of your misinformation.
Oh well, see how much I care?
yep, when all the corporate jobs are outsourced to china, etc. we’ll all have to figure out how to make it together, Charles and his ilk will be freakin out cuz they only know how to criticize and protect the party line. New ideas are foreign to these drones, Those of us who decided to live with less rather than sell out to the power will be and are much better off improvising and being truly free as much as is possible. Freedom is nothing left to lose…..or something like that…..certainly not what most Americans have today…..debt is killing the country…..all you all that taught your kids to live off credit cards and speculate in the stock market should be ashamed!
Is Charles Douglas still around here? Could he have been the mysterious Anon.R.Mous who is said to have died or disappeared?
I taught mine to only risk what they could afford to live without in the stock market, which an an incredible record from start to finish, by the way. I also taught my kids not to ever charge a credit card over what you can afford to pay off at the end of the month. Speculating in the stock market is entirely different, and I can tell you first hand, those who stay in it for the long haul have done well.
risk is gambling….gambling is addictive and prone to overexcess….just because some people get rich in stocks doesn’t mean it’s justified…..saving money is a lost art, too bad you didn’t teach them that!