Marina Center comments online
Curious about the comments on Security National’s big box mall DEIR? The City of Eureka uploaded them to its website.
Strong opposition to Home Depot is quickly revealed by scrolling through the emails, postcards and hand-written letters — even from people who generally support the “Marina Center” idea.
Some of the comments are all business. Others take a more creative approach.
“What Ozark spiral arm of which galaxy are these planners and promoters living in?” asks Biologist David Fix. ” We expect something better, not Santa Rosa Norte.”
Dr. Phillip King (Ph.D in Economics, professor at SF State), writing on behalf of Citizens for Real Economic Growth, noted the large number of vacant retail spaces (127) already dotting the Eureka landscape, which go unmentioned in the DEIR. Project proponents claim any vacated retail space in the Marina Center could be easily re-tentanted, but forgo analysis of why that hasn’t happened in the rest of Eureka.
The DEIR was written in a way to create a “false demand for this development,” wrote King.
Leave a comment
Recent Comments
 | Anonymous on Eureka Police lose big in Mart… |
| Anonymous on A Performance Review for Phil… |
| i can T stop thinkin… on BLIND ITEM | |
| Anonymous on Hank Larrabee – Humboldt Count… |
| Anonymous on Hank Larrabee – Humboldt Count… |
 | Anum08 on Another “Golden rule… |
 | Adobe crack on Another “Golden rule… |
Top Posts & Pages
The Humboldt Herald 
bleak
The Marina Center is going down in flames
Wanna bet?
Rob is determined to get the last laugh here – at the expense of the citizens of Humboldt
There’s a monumental difference between vacancies in decripid Old Town and a big box with small retail surrounding it. And it’s ridiculous to compare vacancies in lesser retail attractions scattered around Eureka because what matters is location, location, location.
A better comparison would be Bayshore Mall. It’s the closest thing to a big box surrounded by small retail. In fact, big box/small retail islands are replacing malls across our country. People come for the big box and then shop at the smaller shops too.
The only tenant problem I see with the Marina Center is if the big box closes and can’t be refilled.
The list includes vacancies in the Bayshore Mall.
Not too bad with regard to those who came out: Just a couple of kooks… Most actually had comments germane to the environmental analysis and didn’t go off into thumbs up /thumbs down referendum mode on the project. The hand-scrawled letters from the resigned, seen-it-all, this-is-the-best-shot-we’ll get seniors was a bit of a downer. I did like the completely unhinged invective from a certain westside B&B proprietor. Wow, I didn’t know we have our own Basil Fawlty.
Right, has the mall ever reached capacity? Talk to some of the independent merchants who opened in the mall and then moved out. The mall’s issue with smaller shops is the rent expectations. Be realistic with rental prices and the mall would be filled in a jiffy.
Oops, ever = never
The Home Depot might not play in the long run because of the current economic realities that will continue to affect Home Depot’s target market but it’s tough to find a real valid argument ( for mainstream folks) against the concept of the Marina Center’s mixed use plan. Sure- there will be the arguments against capping and claims of archeological sites on the property but those are really red herrings anyway and most folks understand that.
ummm… Red herrings, you mean gross looking big fat bloated dead stinking fish, the kind of sight & stink you can’t ignore, right? I think most folks do underrstand that!
“…you mean gross looking big fat bloated dead stinking fish, the kind of sight & stink you can’t ignore, right?”.
No. The kind of argument thrown out when someone is trying to come up with any argument they can against something.
Thank you Fred. That’s what I meant. However to coopt Da Whoa, the Ballon tract as it is right now is indeed a gross looking big fat bloated stinking fish…which you can’t ignore. While I don’t run with Larry Glass’ crowd, the folks I know generally think something ought to be done with it because right now it’s just a blight and and eysore right here on our beautiful bay. I’m not too crazy about a Home Depot or for that matter any big box but let’s do something that’ll clean it up, provide some jobs and housing and bring some tax revenue in to the City.
The Home Depot might not play in the long run because of the current economic realities that will continue to affect Home Depot’s target market
And unless any variance can be business specific, which would probably violate the 14th Amendment, that would open the door for WalMart or something else. People need to understand that.
Very true. I just wonder if Security National has a plan B if economics pulls the rug out from under the Home Depot. There’s got to be a better idea that can still work and make financial sense. Whatever it is-it’s got to generate lots of customer traffic to pay it’s way. Another Furniture store or something like that won’t cut it- it needs to be a Costco type revenue producer to make it work.
Actually, the Balloon tract is looking pretty good these days. Cleaning up the crap above the surface really made the property look great. Go check it out some day Da Man.
Yeah, a big vacant lot with the faint sound of a dog barking far off in the distance. It’s looking pretty good all right.
A point to consider for Anon @ 10:06 is that the environmental aspect of that vacancy rate is the causative impact of the proposed big-box mall on urban decay in a city that shows signs of such impacts across most every neighborhood in the city.
The question at hand during this stage of the environmental review is not whether the proposed big-box mall is a good idea or a bad idea (even as obvious a bad idea as this one), it is a question of whether the EIR provides a thorough and credible analysis of all the forseeable impacts that such a large project will have. The purpose of this analysis is to fully inform the public at large and the decision makers specifically, of the impacts so that they can then make a decision that will serve their constituency.
Remember, this is not about infringing on someones rights to conduct business, it is about whether the conduct of someones business infringes on everybody elses rights to live in a safe, healthy and decent environment.
I have no interest in anybodies business until it infringes on my rights. Pollution and habitat destruction (directly or indirectly through air, water and soil pollution) is a form of taxation without representation and it is fundamentally unAmerican.
So endeth the lesson.
Crawford views undeveloped property as blight? Wow, better move out of Humboldt buddy. Phoenix probably fits the bill.
Yes, but you should recognize that you hold a far-left opinion, Arkley holds a far-right opinion and you are not going to see either far opinion expressed in an EIR. But, given that you dislike the Marina Center plan so much, you are inclined to view the EIR as pro-Marina Center and terribly incomplete because it lacks your far-left viewpoint.
You have to understand just how entrenched you are in your own dogma.
It definitely is better now than what it was. And policing costs for that piece of property to the City have dropped. Can’t argue with Larry Evans either. Good points for sure.
Hats off to the Planning Department for uploading the comments. It is appropriate and necessary that projects such as this which affect a whole community can be viewed and researched over the internet in a more efficient manner; rather than using the telephone every single time there is a question – which takes away staff time from actually working on the project at hand.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Evans’ you aren’t talking to EPIC pot heads on this one. You’re a good snake oil salesman but pleeeeeese don’t ever try to pretend to stick up for private property rights. Why not join your buddy Cobb and raise some $$$$$$$$$ doing pancake feeds. Then you can buy the property and do with it what you like.
indeed Henchman–now if we could get the City Council and the County Planning Commission to upload the documents you need to read before going to a hearing, we’d be making some real progress toward joining the 21st Century.
As it is, if you see a legal notice and want to know more, you have to track down the planner who has the folder on his or her desk, look through it and ask them to copy the parts you want–all during business hours, of course.
If Arkely is a smart businessman he will eventually see the light and throw in the towel on this project. America’s empty big box and medium box real estate is growing at an exponential rate, and this will be the second property bubble to burst. This event is just getting started…… and a new development project is probably the worst investment anyone could make right now. America’s landscape is covered with empty retail space, which will most likely remain empty for the next decade.
Is Arkley a smart businessman? Are we talking smart business in dollar measurement? Let’s compare him with the other graduates in his high school class…Yeah, he is looking pretty good.
“Are we talking smart business in dollar measurement” “Let’s compare him with other graduates in his high school class.”
I remember him being an irritating rich boy dweeb, that we used tease and make fun of. Somewhere along the way (Alaska) he found his true calling, being a modern day “snidely whiplash” foreclosing on people and business for fun and profit. So compare him to us by stacks of money and he wins. Compare us by having moral integrity or any conscience and he doesn’t even register.
Your still a big dork percy, all the money in the world can’t change that!
I was talking with a family member of mine on the east coast on Cape Cod. A giant Circuit City was recently built in Hyannis, MA. It never opened. Apparently, it is now just sitting there empty, because the company went bankrupt. What a waste!
Excuse me, it is called “corporate retrenchment”.
Circuit City won’t occupy new Hyannis store
Corporate Retrenchment or Corporate Renewal?
There are two major ways for managing officers to respond to downturn: one is to retrench, cut costs, pull back; the other is to renew, revitalize, grow stronger.
Strangely both responses look the same on the bottom line, at least at first: they both reduce costs. But there is a profound difference in the long-term profitability and competitiveness of companies that renew, regenerate rather than just retrench.
Retrenchment, even when it is done superbly, can produce a weaker, frightened organization that has lost muscle, market, bone, and spirit. Business literature and oral histories are full of ugly examples.
Good Points Carol,
History has an ironic way of repeating itself; and, by looking to the past, society can prepare for understanding the future. The problem is that human beings continue to repeat the same historical mistakes over, and over, and over, and over again. So, in a “slap in the face way”, humans really have not positively evolved that much in the great scheme of things, most likely due to a couple words – GREED & JEALOUSY!
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
If factories and industry were to replace these empty retail spaces throughout the country, we could possibly save ourselves from collapse……but sadly I don’t see this happening. America needs a viable industry base that helps the average individual save their earnings while paying down their personal debt, and an industrial base that creates exports that are in demand. The key to this is alternative fuels and alternative energy, we need products that would be in demand world wide. The age of bottomless consumption is dead, and we now see the costs of our indulgent lifestyles that we could not truly afford. The Marina Center is a pipe dream…….
interesting point, especially since coastal-dependent industry is one of the few appropriate uses of the Balloon Track because it is a former coastal wetland.
The age of bottomless consumption is dead
I couldn’t agree more and it is an addictive habit to break. What we need to do is round-up all those plastic garbage islands in our world’s ocean, re-use it and make it into something else like building material, or something useful.
Meanwhile, what perks my interest after reading some of the EIR comments is that there were 2 Wiyot Villages on this project’s site. That needs to be respected.
James William Kunstler posted a excellent essay titled “Poverty of Imagination” on this very subject a few days back on his Clusterfuck Nation site:
http://jameshowardkunstler.typepad.com/clusterfuck_nation/2009/02/poverty-of-imagination.html?cid=6a00d834515e6b69e2011278d6676b28a4
Capping and archaeology site are red herrings? This was said by one of the bloggers above. The idea that capping locks underground contaminants in place and therefore safe is twisted logic.
1. Five hundred cars parking an hour drip a lot of oil that then gets into the bay through run off, i.e. today is a great run off day.
2. The underground water level is only about 5 feet down normally and during rains like we are now having, rise a couple of feet below the surface. That water slowly seeps into the bay as well.
this water gets mixed with pollutants and into the bay they go.
This bay produces 60% of all the oysters in California. It supports thousands of birds and other animals. It is a NO BRAINER what is more important.
Someone who thinks ancestral burials and village sites is a red herring needs a class in cultural awareness.
Expect double digit interest rates by this years end, so be prepared by creating your own food sources and by stocking up on consumable goods with a long shelf life. Super high interest rates will be the only way to counter balance this newly printed money supply, our economy is an illusion folks…….and a large scale ponzi scheme. We’ve been had by the good life and easy living, now we all will pay the true price of these luxuries. Get used to a lesser way of life, be happy with the simple things and protect yourself and family.
Um… that should have been James *Howard* Kunstler… (Must have had the name of the Chicago 8 defense attorney stuck sideways in my corpus callosum…)
Happy Valentines Day Ladies and Gents!
Carlan Realism
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
More stuff from Carlin,
Stuff
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Self Important Ideologies,
The Planet
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
a little wiyot history and the railroad history of the site are found in this IV. Environmental Setting, Impacts and Mitigation Measures
E. Cultural Resources section of the 2008 draft EIR
that i found quickly on a yahoo search.
Moniter
1. http://www.baysaver.com/
2. that is happening now
George Carlin’s Stuff recommended by Jeffrey Lytle above is quite apropo! as is Carlin Realism (though not funny, no not at all). Now how did George Carlin know that one day the Republicans would give It All to Wall Street?! He probably would never have guessed how literally true that would come to be…
It’s absolutely ridiculous to see the fight being put up to stop Arkley from developing his property(the ballon tract). To the anonymous blogger who said that the tract is looking better- if it is looking better, it’s only because Arkley started cleaning it up. I can still see some old railcars rusting away in there, but it will look alot better once Arkley builds on it. Leave Arkley alone and thank him for developing an eyesore and bringing in some much needed jobs into this county.
What you see above ground is just the outward appearance,. The real problem is more hidden, therein lies the toxic residue from decades of pollution, profit poison that Arkley wants to cover up with imported oil. Sweeping NWP’s cancer cluster under the rug shouldn’t pass muster with any thoughtful community. There were fifteen superfund sites on Humboldt Bay’s shores in ’99, and Dubya tossed the superfund, making taxpayers foot the bill instead of the polluters. The bay is a unique treasure, not something for speculators to spoil in the name of “progress”.
Well William, what about the much needed existing jobs this project displaces? If one is just trading ten new jobs for ten that will no longer exist, where is the gain? Yes the property will look better, but at whos expense? Is there any difference between rusting rail cars and downtown commercial buildings setting empty and decaying because of declining business?
It is not as simple and getting to buy shiny new things at a shiny new store. Is the trade off worth what we lose as a community? Do we want to lose smaller locally owned business for a more corporate buying philosophy? Many towns across America have lost their diversity when a Walmart world comes to town. How far do we go before we wake up one morning no longer who we were?
oh but isn’t that the American Way, acquiring shinier and more expensive stuff at all costs to the environment and real quality of life?
I’d love to see a list of those jobs.
Saying there are “127 vacant retail spaces” in Eureka right now is a reason to stop the Marina Development is crazy.
The vacant spaces are due to the economy & to the broken down buildings some of those spaces are in. The Marina Center is still several years away from opening its first spaces. By then the recession will have been long over.
As far as people specifically opposing Home Depot ? Government is not equipped or competant enough to determine which businesses are allowed to come to our town. If some individuals don’t like Home Depot – THEN DON’T SHOP THERE ! Competition is good for all of us except Bill Pierson. Bill will have to lower his prices & stop gouging us.
The Marina Center will not look better than the existing marsh. One gigantic parking lot with a big box warehouse building. There is nothing aesthetically pleasing about this proposal.
The new Co-op was allowed to be built on the outskirts of Old Town looking like the anchor of a valley mini-mall, so don’t get too excited about Eureka’s sense of aesthetics.
Sounds like you have a personal vendetta. Compare prices around town. Compare prices at Home Depot. Pierson’s has prices on par or lower, and yet pays a living wage.
John Eureka @ 8:32,
Government appears to be equipped to decide which businesses get to STAY IN TOWN – reference the $500,000 dollars the County Supes GAVE to Eureka, and associatedly Pacific Choice Seafoods, for a new LEASED FACILITY on the end of a pier in a Tsunami Zone; and, the $250,000 Redevelopment Monies that the City of Eureka “bidded up” as well to create a total of $750,000 for a BRAND NEW building with facilities which is owned by the LANDLORDS OF EUREKA (the taxpayers) (2/3 of which came from the Headwaters Fund); and, operated by a single private company paying rents to EUREKA (a government entity). Government is getting into the business of “property, structures and landownership” in order to be a rental lord.
Individually generated premonitions over the years about where government is taking society through FORCE are accurately assessed. Many corporate employees and it’s promoters are merely paper pushers, pawns and crew members for the Greater Divide Cruiseliner being manufactered in tandem with government to displace and split the citizenry even further through the Grandiose Oceanic Waters of economic slavery.
Invented Fear about losing everything of monetary value in business has created a false illusion designed and manufactured by government and other corporate interests to brainwash small businesses into becoming “corporate entities”. This effectively WILL “weed out” non-corporate small businesses which do not become corporate due to receiving lesser incentives awarded by government. It is no wonder so many people already work for corporations when the percentage (%) of pooled, bundled and available jobs are favorable to the corporate interests and not small businesses – obviously people like to eat and survive when backed up against a wall which is partly why people work for corporations.
When corporations take over everything business and personal; and, the only jobs available will be by corporations or government, then DIVERSITY IS DEAD. No more healthy communities; no more small businesses where economic competition exists while offering individual opportunities; no more freedom of choice; essentially, gone are those things people will soon regret losing. This country is beginning to act and look like those freaky sci-fi movies depicting the future. Nostra out.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
The co-op could not be much uglier
I like the Co-op’s appearance- think it’s fun. Maybe a little over the top but that part of town needed some excitement. I also like Pierson’s, their pricing, which is comparable to other similar stores, and the variety of stuff they make available. Nice store.
When Pierson’s Building Supply has their seasonal sales, the prices are usually unbeatable. I used to work for Piersons and they employ wonderful people who are given an opportunity for a long term future of employment. Hats off to Pierson’s Building Supply!
I also worked in the summer a couple times bucking hay out in Freshwater for Hank. I also was a member of Freshwater 4-H with Pierson children too. Good people all around in the experiences I was fortunate enough to encounter.
It kinda sucks though that I have to drive the distance from Mack Town to Eureka though. The conjesting drive absolutely is annoying.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
The jobs lost because of a marina center would be the same type lost when bay shore mall was built. Many stores just closed their doors within a few years of the malls opening. That would be clerks, managers, book keepers, owners, suppliers, truck drivers, etc. That is what weakened downtown in the late 80’s and early 90’s. It is a real consequence of adding new major retail to an already stretched retail mix.
“oh but isn’t that the American Way, acquiring shinier and more expensive stuff at all costs to the environment and real quality of life?”
That was the way for a period of time in our history, but our lifestyles are going to be forced to change forever. Arkely’s dream project is a project of better days, when financial bubbles floated the average individual to spend. We are no longer on that path, our debt to income ratio has finally gotten too large to handle; and now with the trillions of new money circulated into our economy, interest rates and inflation will both rise to astronomical levels. Wake up people, the party is over and the house is wrecked.
We’re awake already. Now go away.
Poor example. Eureka has recovered from the losses seen after the mall came in, and Old Town is livelier than ever before, with possible exception of the good ol’ days when rail provided a steady flow of johns for the red light district.
Wait a minute. Are anti-rail activists puritans?
Dearest Art Life,
I re-read my post and I can’t find any defense of private property rights, only defense of my own rights, (and those of my family and friends), from infringement on my rights to clean air and water.
Try again–Next!
the pollution done to the marina center is done, its not arkleys fault, he is nice enough to clean it as much as he has, its rediculous to expect him to restore the ground to a prestine perfect condition, seriously you folks on this forum just are all out to get arkley, yea sure hes is rich and is a humboldt insider with tons of money spread out over the county! Thats just life tho theres always gonna be people like this, and if you were in his shoes you probably wouldnt be much diffrent. The way i see it he is the only person who is actualy trying to fix eureka and make it a cleaner town to shop and live in. My point being that we should welcome any private help to fix up eureka. there is no reason why the jewel of the north coast should be such a run down shithole, if someone were to fix up eureka and make the place more desirable to live then we would be getting more deacent familys in our communities and the schools would have higher enrollment. Fortuna has a diffrent additude than eureka id say a little less tollerant and because of it you dont see all the homeless and tweekers running around the downtown. If eureka could clean up its streets and try and create new small industry than the towns economy would pick up, also you all talk about all the commercial real estate thats empty. well then we should create more housing developments with say 2,000 more homes in eureka that would bring in enough new consumers to support most of these vacant commercial buildings. but thats another subject. my point is that all this bitching aint fixing shit in eureka is just making it more of a shithole, we need private entrapanures to continue to innovate in humboldt and that means development!
Development of industry would be great, production is what America needs…..we need factories to produce tangible goods to export, we need alternative energy technology to pull us out of this deep recession/soon to be depression. However, building shopping centers and retail stores isn’t going to help our economy, Americans need to save and pay down their personal debt rather than to spend and borrow more money, money they never had to begin with. This is the cycle the banking sector wanted to to continue….but we cannot, our economy is a lie. The Marina Center would continue this consumption economy idea, and those days are over now. Rob will eventually throw in the towel, and see the futility of his dream project.
He is not the only person trying to fix up Eureka.
Many less fortunate people are trying too. The difference is the stonewalling by agencies is much easier versus the person with little money as compared to the person with much money. If a lesser incomed person were in Arkley’s position with the Marina Center Proposal, it is almost a sure bet that the City would require more conditions to be met. The Marina Center would be better, imo, if it were only commercial light manufacturing and industrial. The additional consumer retail and housing is a flaw. The only reason the housing is in the design is for money to pick up the slack when retail dips south. The overall cost to develop has to be funded by something when part of that development flounders. This is the investment idea of not having all your eggs in one basket; however, it is wreckless when you consider the public and private nuisances that will be created. Imagine private property rights and renters’ rights being intermingled within a private/public development. The Police Department is going to need much extra funding to deal with the crys for peace officer help in this development. Who is going to pay for this, the renters and tenant occupyers? This is a discussion of the construct versus the abstract, imo.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District