Iraq war vet injured by Oakland Police
A military veteran who was twice deployed to Iraq is in critical condition with a cracked skull and brain swelling following an assault by Oakland Police against Occupy Oakland protestors.
Scott Olsen was hit by a police projectile as Oakland PD moved to disperse the crowd. When fellow protestors ran to his aid they were targeted by another flash-bang police device.
Two tours in Iraq to “protect our freedoms.” Now Olsen is in critical condition for exercising those freedoms.
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The Humboldt Herald 
It is actions like this that will guarantee a violent outcome to an otherwise peaceful change.
Guarantee violence? In the sense that “here’s some violence”, yes. Otherwise it looks like a great PR moment for the movement.
What I actually meant was, throughout history, when peaceful protests were met with increasing levels of violence, the protesters eventually answered back in kind. Especially when combating systematic corruption at the highest levels of government.
If this movement becomes violent in order to obtain its goals, it will not be the fault of the protesters, but the fault of the establishment which has forced their hands.
Amen to that.
Shameful!! The OPD shouuld be hanging their heads for this unnecessary act of gratuitous violemce against non-violent demonstrators.
Heraldo got it right:
“Two tours in Iraq to “protect our freedoms.” Now Olsen is in critical condition for exercising those freedoms.”
It is shameful. Shameful that a selfish group like these protestors would use an Iraqi vet like this.
The “violent outcome” was caused by, egged on by and hoped by the “Occupy” group themselves. These occupiers are nothing more than bully boys forcing law enforcement to act.
So how much longer will the Humboldt County Bd of Supervisors allow our ragtag group of bums to ruin the front lawn of our courthouse ?
Yet again, Highly Fried exhibits the results of years of substance abuse.
Get some treatment, asshole.
“It …shameful that a selfish group… would use an Iraqi vet like this.”
What about the shameless, gutless cowardly scumbags who sent him to Iraq in the first place? Just asking, HiFi.
What Now proves the left is nasty, mean spirited and does not tolerate dissent.
Joel that is a stupid question and beneath you.
Uh, Mr. Personal Hi Fi Responsibility, sir? Don’t you think someone who has served two tours of duty in Iraq as a marine and has then chosen to join Veterans for Peace is capable of making their own decisions?
Or is anyone who chooses to protest what has happened to our country just being used?
Mitch, only if they agree with Highly Fried’s booze goggle world view.
FYI, ‘Fied,It’s called a sarcastic, smart assed attitude,
It’s an evolutionary development forautomatic defense agaisn’t bullshit, lies, and fascist crap from shitstains like you.
Sounds like the teabagger cops in Oakland were trying to outdo the teabagger cops in New York. Good spin hifi!
Nicholas Kristof: Crony Capitalism Comes Home
This was written in 1930 by Charles Erskine Scott Wood, in a book titled “Too Much Government”. He was a prominent Lawyer for human rights and was a Los Gatos resident for many years. “President Hoover and Congress meaning to please the people and care for their, interests so far as is consistent with caring for their own interests and protecting the vested rights of the overlords, the truth remains that at bottom the feudal lords control, and in extremity their help and consent must be sought. What ever the emergency, there is never any suggestion of change, never any thought of a fundamental change in the economic system.’Under our system Vested Interests are fond of saying there is no excuse for revolution by violence– the people have a remedy in the ballot. …….But for speakers wishing to discuss the question of peaceful change there are only police clubs and jails.”
These words were written at the beginning of the Great Depression and have a recurrent ring of truth today. Our Great Recession has brought on much suffering, except for the very rich, the politicians, the giant corporations, and their enforcers. The rest of the book reads like a script of what is happening today. Hard to believe it was written 80 years ago.
I agree Hi-Fi, lets not allow protesting. Especially by scum bags (we know who they are…)
Official Vets for Peace statement on Scott Olsen.
I don’t understand Oakland’s actions in forcing the #Occupy protesters out. These occupations are so obviously going to simply go away on their own if one is patient with them.
As much as I am sympathetic with many of #Occupy’s positions I do not believe a leaderless revolution with no clear cut goals can ultimately prevail nor have any real impact on society…but that may simply be me. A child of the 60’s.
The police were just doing their job. Oh, wait…the occupiers wouldn’t know a job if it walked up and introduced itself. To the one assaulted…thank you for your service to our country.
Maybe if they had cleared out when politely asked, this wouldn’t have happened.
High Traitor said:
October 26, 2011 at 6:39 pm
“It is shameful. Shameful that a selfish group like these protestors (sic) would use an Iraqi vet like this.”
Dwight D. Eisenhower said:
“Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels – men and women who dare to dissent from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion.”
um, “protestors” should be “protesters”
1. I thought this was supposed to be Anti Wall Street.
2. CNN says the “protesters” were hurling rocks and bottles at the cops.
3. Injury was unfortunate but predictable when a group reacts to a legitimate request to disperse with violence.
Just a thought.
This thread shows how clueless some people are. OWS using a ex-marine? He joined them because he wanted to and fought for the freedom too. Give me a break.
When I see comments attacking the OWS protestors, and calling them vile names…I know their coming from 1 % ers and and Tea Party wackaloons.
I hope these protests don’t become more violent. I hope the cops back down and let people exercise their freedom of speech. But I realize the powers-that-be (the lamestream media, politicians, and corporations) are going to do everything they can to suppress this movement.
We’ve seen the videos of cops choking and throwing protesters to the ground, pepper spraying them and shooting them in the face with concussion grenades, but not a single video of protesters throwing rocks and bottles. We have seen the videos of brutality by police who then just walk away without arresting the people they brutalized. We know the media and the police are video taping events, as are the protesters, but there have been no videos released by either the corporate media or the authorities which show any violence by protesters. It’s obvious these random acts of violence by the police are intended to incite violence to justify an escalation of their oppression. Those who support police brutality are thugs.
Maybe P J you can pull your head out of wherever and look at the videos and reports from Nat’l news instead of YouTube. I saw enough to say that when protetsers throw rocks and bottles, then tear gas is not an unexpected response.
Hugs.
Post a link 8:28
Hi Fi is a throw back to pre WW2 Germany or Italy. I thought we fought that war to allow democratic views to be talked about and acted upon in public. I hope this guy is not a teacher, god help us if he is.
Law enforcement officers need to be reminded at every opportunity that they have a responsibility not to instigate violence.
True heroism would be a law enforcement officer refusing orders to attack non-violent protesters. “Following orders” is not heroism and, in some situations, amounts to criminal behavior.
If even a few law enforcement officers showed the courage to stand up for the protesters, the banksters would start pissing in their suits and politics in this country would forever change.
8:28,
Maybe you need to start looking at youtube rather than what the media spoon feeds you (especially Fox).
A youtube video clearly shows a group of protesters rushing to the aid of a person lying on the ground a few feet in front of police lines; in slow motion it also shows someone from behind police lines throwing a small object into the crowd — the small object explodes with a flash and the crowd scatters.
Did Fox miss that?
High Finance,
We are still waiting for you to post your qualifications and your life achievements as you asked me to do, and I did.
What are you afraid of? I know that there are some conservatives in Humboldt who are not cowards, its just that at the moment the only conservative spokesman here (you) is a flat out coward.
Why don’t you just come out and tell us who you are? Since your own positions are so intelligent and good for society won’t it help your reelection?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
I find numerous reports that protesters threw rocks and bottles, but not a single video showing it. That the corporate media just accepts the claims of the police or lies to support them isn’t surprising, but they are just losing what little credibility that remained by repeating the false claims of violence on the part of protesters. The class traitor sycophants who suck up to the rich and support police brutality on their behalf are the worst.
Wtf?
Class traitor sychophants?
PUT THE BONG DOWN. Its too early. Its not even 9 a.m. For christsakes.
That’s what you are 8:53. Ad hominem attacks don’t refute that. You support the brutal oppression of peaceful protesters exercising their right to organize and protest against the elite who are destroying our country. If you don’t like being called what you are, educate yourself and join the majority in opposing the oligarchy this country has become.
Class traitor sychophants P J?
Majority? I don’t think so but take another hit and enjoy the morning.
Bill, if you weren’t a hypocrite you would be asking the same thing of PJ, What Now, Factless, The Monitor and Decline to State (although I think some of them are the same person).
But you are so you won’t.
You obviously aren’t capable of thinking and continue the ad hominem attacks. Even Fox polls showed 69% approval of OWS.
Why would he ask what I do for a living, HiFi? I haven’t insulted him as a lifelong parasite. I am self-employed and have been in the same field since college with the same clients. My field is rather specialized so I won’t say what it is since I would be identified and don’t wish to be for reasons clearly stated on several occasions.
Why can’t we just raise taxes and borrow more money and give all these occupiers government union jobs? Shifting the costs onto the rest of society?
“Those who support police brutality are thugs.” More than that they are TRAITORS. It’s time to see these wannabe Elitists for exactly who and what they are. When I read the words of a young woman that grew up in Egypt and see how clearly she saw reality I take hope despite what I see when reading comments on this blog. Here’s the link and translation of her video that inspired people to move.
I bet you don’t want to be identified P J. That’s a no brainer with your posts here.
Mostly because of thugs like you who don’t believe in people having the right to voice their opinions without trying to destroy them, 9:17, I used to use my real name to voice my opinions but got fed up with the harassing phone calls from sycophant class traitors like you.
From the Oakland Tribune:
Olsen was one of several hundred angry protesters who swarmed through Oakland’s downtown well into the morning hours on Wednesday, repeatedly clashing with riot police. In some cases, protesters threw bottles and tipped over garbage containers. Oakland police said two of its officers were injured when a protester doused them with cans of blue and pink paint.
Check out the Oakland Tribune. What I read doesn’t support you P J.
A REPORT – where’s the video? We see the cops videoing in the protesters’ videos and corporate media videos which show police brutality, but not a single video that shows protesters throwing anything. It’s no wonder 9:24 is a sycophant class traitor. He’s too stupid to understand simple posts and knows his only chance for survival is sucking up to the rich for their financial support.
High Finance,
I will remind you, YOU are the one who called ME out. I had the courage to post my life experiences here. I have a verifiable record of employment in real “high management” positions in the real private sector economy.
Even conservative business people who will most likely strongly disagree with some of my libertarian socialist views understand that I know the private sector and how it works and what it takes to actually turn a profit. They can know that from what I post here, while your posts show a complete lack of understanding of private business. You are so obviously some government functionary or some private sector grant farmer. You have zero experience in the competitive free market and it shows.
Or if I am wrong, please tell us. And I will apologize right here.
Until then you are simply a discredited lying poser.
The thought that you might have something to do with the education system with such a low grade intellect is very distressing.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
I agree HiFi, except for one thing! Nothing is below Joel, that is just the way he is!
I wonder if Heraldo, Joel, or Eric are veterans themselves? Actually I am certain they are not. They do not support the military, appreciate the military, yet they shamefully jump on this kind of crap.
Because the only people who REALLY support veterans want to send them into wars based on lies and support the police shooting them in the face for daring to protest. The people who believe we shouldn’t sent our kids to fight wars for corporate profit are just haters, according to the frightwingers like 9:33.
Service Records – Comparing Democrats To Republicans
Democrats
David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72
Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, etc
Jimmy Carter: Lt. Commander in the Navy 1946-53
Wesley Clark: Army 1966-2000, Vietnam, Silver star, purple heart
Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver/Bronze stars, Vietnam
Bill Clinton: Did not serve (opposed war)
Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72
Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze star
Michael Dukakis: Army 1955-57
John Edwards: Did not serve
Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71
John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs; Air Medal w/18 Clusters
Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam as journalist
Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74
Howell Heflin: Silver star WWII
Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII; Bronze star
Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-47; Medal of Honor, WWII
Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-53
Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam
John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver/Bronze stars, purple hearts
Tom Lantos: Served in Hungarian underground in WWII
Jim McDermott: Navy 1968-70
George McGovern: Silver star & DFC during WWII
Zell Miller: Marine Corps, 1953-56
Walter Mondale: Army 1951-53\
John Murtha: Retired Marine officer and decorated Vietnam combat veteran
Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver star, etc
Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze star, Korea
Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-79; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91
Chuck Robb: U.S. Marine Corps, 1961-70, Vietnam
Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57
Mike Thompson: Staff Sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart
John Conyers – US Army
Republicans
Spencer Abraham: Did not serve
Eliot Abrams: Did not serve
Richard Armitage: Navy, three tours in Vietnam
John Ashcroft: Did not serve
Roy Blunt: Did not serve
Michael Bloomberg: Did not serve
George W. Bush: Texas Air Nat. Guard; skipped duty; didn’t take physical; suspended from flying
Jeb Bush: Did not serve
Saxby Chambliss: Did not serve. Attacked Cleland’s patriotism
Dick Cheney: Did not serve
Christopher Cox: Did not serve
Tom DeLay: Did not serve
John Engler: Did not serve
Douglas Feith: Did not serve
Bill Frist: Did not serve
Newt Gingrich: Did not serve
Rudy Giuliani: Did not serve
Lindsey Graham: National Guard lawyer
Phil Gramm: Did not serve
Dennis Hastert: Did not serve
Tim Hutchison: Did not serve
Jack Kemp: Did not serve. “Knee problem,” continued in NFL for 8 years
Jon Kyl: Did not serve
Trent Lott: Did not serve
John McCain: POW in Vietnam, Legion of Merit, Silver star, DFC, many more
Mitch McConnell: Did not serve
John McHugh: Did not serve
George Pataki: Did not serve
Richard Perle: Did not serve
Colin Powell: 35 years in Army, 4-star general
Dan Quayle: Journalism unit of the Indiana National Guard
Dana Rohrabacher: Did not serve
Karl Rove: Did not serve
Don Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as flight instructor
Rick Santorum: Did not serve
Arnold Schwarzenegger: AWOL from Austrian army base
Richard Shelby: Did not serve
JC Watts: Did not serve
Vin Weber: Did not serve
Paul Wolfowitz: Did not serve
Andy Card – no service
Condi Rice – no service
John Bolton – no service
Don Nichols – no service
David Dreier – no service
Pundits, Preachers, and Judges
Bill Bennett: Did not serve
Wolf Blitzer: Did not serve
Pat Buchanan: Did not serve
Mann Coulter: Did not serve
Charlie Daniels: Did not serve
Lou Dobbs: Did not serve
Paul Gigot: Did not serve
Sean Hannity: Did not serve
Bill Kristol: Did not serve
Rush Limbaugh: Did not serve
Chris Matthews: Did not serve
Michael Medved: Did not serve
Ted Nugent: Did not serve
Bill O’Reilly: Did not serve
Dan Rather: Army Reserves
Ralph Reed: Did not serve
Michael Savage: Did not serve
Antonin Scalia: Did not serve
Kenneth Starr: Did not serve
Clarence Thomas: Did not serve
George Will: Did not serve
Roger Ailes (Fox) – Did not serve
Anne Coulter – Did not serve
Fred Barnes – Did not serve
Gary Bauer – Did not serve
Neil Bortz – Did not serve
Tony Snow – Did not serve
Pat Robertson – US Army
Jerry Falwell – Did not serve
Hate to burst your bubble universe P J but SF and Oakland are not conservative.
Brilliant 10:33. Now where did I ever say they were? You must be so confused in your black and white bubble that you read what wasn’t written and pull assumptions out of your ass.
WTO taught much about their style and manners in which to counter the occupation in an urban setting. Thanks to Elysian Brewing Company for the IPA and Satan’s Stout to keep the fighters warm in the rain and providing glass to pee in and then pelt the enemy.
I am glad to see these neo hippies being beat up and arrested, because it pushes the line forward towards the fall of the occupation of the former united states of america. These pawns are going to be used to bring in a set of new laws that will bring out in the open the fact that government has nobody’s interest in mind but their own. Many of you neo hippies are getting the wake up call you need and deserve. Choices will have to be made and they won’t be easy.
As someone who fought in their first riot against NYPD back in 1983 on the Lower East Side, I can only ask how it feels? How does it feel to know your voice isn’t heard and some government won’t save your pink asses? In my time I have seen people gunned down on the street by occupational authorities and it didn’t even make the news. I’ve seen them burn down buildings to get squatters out, drive over people with horses and cars, and drag away the evidence.
Rudy Giuliani had black vans kidnapp and dispose of the squee-gee guys the night he was elected, yup killed and thrown into the east river. Government can only kill after it has stolen everything.
Welcome to the machine neo hippies, enjoy the hamburger!
My advice for anyone in an urban area is explore the sewers, as these were helpful for flanking and escaping the enemy who fights on the ground and above it.
Now the neo hippies are called to the front, will they go over the top or piss their pants and beg for stronger government? Time will tell because these are The Signs Of The Times as the Cro-Mags used to say.
Now to just rock your world off it’s axis, 10:33, Today’s Quinnipac poll shows 73% of New York’s Republican voters support the right of OWS to protest and only 58% disapprove of their goals. 67% of New Yorkers voters approve of their goals.
The 99% vs 1% story that has finally taken off in the media hides things as much as it reveals them. One of the great crimes of today’s media is how it has failed to convey the larger picture.
The 1% are people making more than a few hundred thousand dollars a year. If you look at your computer screen and think every pixel on the screen represents 300 or so Americans, then the 1% represent a ten pixel tall line across the center of the screen.
The IRS has a publication outlining the income and taxes associated with the top 400 tax returns. That’s not the top 1% (1,400,000 returns), or even the top 1% of the top 1% (14,000 returns). It’s the top .0003% and, all by itself, that segment reported $8,262,000,000 in adjusted gross income in 2008. These 400 filers might represent two or three pixels on your screen.
Click to access 08intop400.pdf
The average tax rate on those 400 filers — the most wealthy people in the country — was 18.11% (down from 29.93% in 1995). What’s your average tax rate? Don’t forget to include payroll taxes, which are 0.00% for the wealthiest but probably a good third of the taxes you have to pay.
Every year, these 400 filers are paying about a billion less in taxes than they would have at 1995’s rate. All else being equal, that is equivalent to 20,000 construction jobs the government could be funding to repair infrastructure nationwide.
The total fundraising for the 2008 Presidential election came to about a billion dollars, but you only need to do that once every four years. Buying the democracy turns out to be an excellent investment, even ignoring anything besides your tax rate.
Black Flag, meet Hi Fi. Hi Fi, meet Black Flag.
And that still leaves out the fact that the tax cuts gave them even more incentive to cut jobs, wages and charitable donations, Mitch. Their 275% increase in income came from the pockets of their employees and former employees.
Mitch, you are repeating Buffet’s lie.
Those 400 get much of their income in the form of dividends. Dividends that are taxed at 15% on the individual’s tax returns, hence the seemingly low rate of 18.11 % quoted in your post.
What Buffet lied by omission and you repeated the lie due to ignorance, is that those dividends have already been taxed 35% at the corporate level. This results in a FIFTY PERCENT TAX on that dividend income.
During the day, police would injure and kill citizens for illegally unionizing and striking.
At night, they quietly prayed for the protester’s success so that police could have their unions too.
As long as the media can stir controversy, it will avoid the underlying issues…just as the traitors are doing in this string…..seeking to contain social change, despite the benefits they enjoy every day from countless protests past.
They have everything to fear.
If corporations are “persons” then they have to pay their taxes like everyone else, isn’t that logical, High Finance? What kind of person gets to pass income to another person tax free? Yes I know that there are provisions for gifts but they are limited to some thousands of dollars per year.
The argument that income taxes on corporations is double taxation doesn’t pass any test of logic or common sense. The fact that dividends are ONLY taxed at 15% is extremely regressive. Dividends should be taxed the same (or more) than regular earned income. You know the kind you get by actually working.
You are shockingly ignorant.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Repeating that right wing spin won’t work here HiFi. We know that corporations and their individual stock holders are separate entities. A corporation doesn’t pay a dime of taxes on the money it pays out to share holders and few pay anything after their specially designed tax breaks kick in on what they stock pile. All money is taxed repeatedly. My income is taxed and then the money I pay the grocer, the doctor, the pharmacist, the gardener, etc is taxed again and the wages they pay their employees and the people they spend it with are taxed again and again. I understand that you think corporations and their stock holders are special and that their money should only be taxed once before they sock it away, but most people disagree with you.
HiFi,
The numbers don’t lie — 29% down to 18% in 13 years. Unless the corporate tax rate has gone up during that time, it’s pretty straightforward.
Normally, I’d be upset to be called an ignorant liar. But coming from you I’ll consider it an honor.
highboldtage,
Don’t forget the other way the wealthiest are double-taxed. First, they pay taxes on their income. Then, their maids, chauffeurs, pilots, bodyguards and personal assistants are forced to pay taxes on the income they get from the wealthiest. Since the wealthiest have already paid tax on their money, shouldn’t the others get their money tax free? It’s ALREADY BEEN TAXED! (After all, that’s the GOP’s successful argument on inheritance taxes.)
High Traitor said:
October 27, 2011 at 11:36 am
“Mitch, you are repeating Buffet’s lie.”
(Grunt) Buffet bad, Banksters good.
NEW YORK (CNNMoney) — Exxon Mobil reported quarterly earnings of $10.3 billion on Thursday, a surge of 41% from a year earlier. (more)
http://money.cnn.com/2011/10/27/news/companies/exxon_mobil/index.htm?hpt=hp_t2
And since my clients have already paid taxes on the money they pay me, my income should be tax-free also.
There ya go P J working without tools again. Supporting the right to protest doesn’t mean supporting filth or violence. Anyone who doesn’t support the “right” to protests is unamerican. But that doesn’t mean one supports winging rocks and bottles. Or shitting on the street or making others lives miserable. CNN poll shows almost 70 percent think OWS is an abject failure.
Deal with it.
“In our interview with Donald Trump, the billionaire told The Daily Ticker’s Aaron Task, Occupy Wall Street is on to something and he appears somewhat sympathetic to the qualms of the so-called 99%. “There is a tremendous fervent and there is something wrong with this country,” Trump says. “Our country is blowing up in front of our eyes.”
The movement, he believes, is a symptom of an unfair and unjust system that favors certain interests at the expense of ordinary Americans.” (more)
http://finance.yahoo.com/blogs/daily-ticker/trump-occupy-wall-street-indication-something-wrong-country-142423579.html
Fair & Balanced said:
October 27, 2011 at 12:20 pm
“There ya go P J working without tools again.”
If FOX News said it, it must be a fact.
Oct. 27 (Bloomberg) — Bloomberg’s Margaret Brennan reports on rising tensions between New York City police and the “Occupy Wall Street” protesters, who are camping out at Zuccotti Park in Lower Manhattan. (Source: Bloomberg)
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/79048796/
You see the Anonymous class traitor can’t provide any links to videos which show any of these incidents he claims have occurred, just printed police claims that these events occurred. But we have a growing pile of videos showing the police and media video taping,on lots of videos taken by protesters showing the police brutality, but there are no videos showing protester violence or ANYTHING that written reports claim to justify the police brutality.
Just more evidence of how hard it is to get people to see what is in their shallow best interest to ignore.
Yes Fact Checker, but notice the repeated claims that “they just don’t get it” from the media? Watch this:
And then there are the ever growing salaries of corporate executives, sucking money from the pockets of their share holders and their workers and increasing prices for consumers. The idea that corporate royalty would pay higher dividends instead of paying themselves always higher salaries is 100% delusional.
Poor P J.
Anonymous says:
October 27, 2011 at 12:41 pm
“Poor P J.”
Now that is a Fair & Balanced observation.
I just wasted my lunch break trying to find ANY concrete evidence of violent protesters. I found nothing.
I’m very impressed with it’s debating skills and rapier wit, Fact. Okay, that’s a big fat lie. But I am impressed that someone so ill informed and inarticulate would be so persistent in demonstrating it.
PJ and others.
Of course money is passed to you tax free PJ. Your clients deduct what they pay you as a business expense. Corporations do NOT deduct dividends.
Mitch, you’re getting as hysterical as PJ & others. The reason why the rate went down is because congress tried to address the very issue I am talking about, the double taxation of dividends.
Try thinking objectively for a moment instead of your knee jerk cliches’. The corporations paid 35% federal tax and 9% state tax on their profits, then the owners (the stockholders) paid another 28% federal and another 9% state tax on that very same income. It would result in the corporate income being taxed at a combined 81%.
Even with the individual’s tax rate on dividends being lowered to 15%, the total tax still ends up at 68%.
“Poor PJ” is right. You sound like a bitter loser hating anybody and everything in life that is succesful. You spend hours and hours a day posting your hate on the web, it sounds like it has consumed you.
New York is a far left town. How does the rest of the country feel about the protestors ? Certainly not the 73% you posted at 10.46am this morning.
Per CBS/NY Times. In a carefully worded poll which asked only “Do you agree with the VIEWS of the protestors” and NOT about the tatics;
Agree 43% Disagree 27%.
http://pollingreport.com/
The Pew Research Center found only 39% support and 35% oppose.
Hi Liar said “…It would result in the corporate income being taxed at a combined 81%.”
That could not pass the muster of a 5th Grade debating class.
Goldman Attacks Occupy Wall Street’s Non-Profit Bank
http://www.gregpalast.com/
High Hater said:
October 27, 2011 at 1:01 pm
“Poor PJ” is right. You sound like a bitter loser hating anybody and everything in life that is succesful (sic). You spend hours and hours a day posting your hate on the web, it sounds like it has consumed you.”
That’s all you got? Fair & Balanced propaganda?
P.S. It is spelled “successful”
New York is a far left town with a Republican mayor. I see.
A far left city which elected Rudy Giuliani (Republican) twice and then elected Bloomberg (Republican) twice? WOW those easterners are weird.
Bloomberg is not a Republican but an Independent. He was a Democrat before running for Mayor.
Here is Edward T Hall III. Grad student at Columbia in NYC. A trust fund baby who has never worked a day in his life but is an occupier.
Look close, you’ll see PJ at the very end.
Those are pretty good numbers considering almost the entire media, “liberal” and Fox, are repeating ad nauseum that they don’t have a CLUE what the protesters are protesting about. But there have been numerous polls which show similar results to the poll done just of New Yorkers. The south and the mid west are the only regions OWS doesn’t have at least a plurality of support. The difference between those who approve and those who disapprove are the people who don’t know what is going on because their media keeps telling them they just can’t figure out the goal.
He was a Republican at the time of both elections. Lots of Republicans have switched to Independent in recent years. The smart ones anyway.
Hi Fi,
We all know that the actual tax rate for corporations in 2011 is more dependent on their accountants and lobbyists than on honest profitability.
Why do we keep hearing of large corporations with tax bills of zero?
If a corporation doesn’t pay taxes in the US, should it be able to issue dividends that are taxed at 15%, or would that be unfair to workers who are taxed on their labor at higher rates?
The next step should be a general strike. I’m not sure there’s ever been one in US history, but I think if OWS called for one, it would happen and get good participation. The positive impact on our politics would be enormous.
November 8th is election day. A lot of people feel election day should be a holiday anyway.
College faculty could start this going by announcing they planned to do teach-ins on November 8th. If enough campuses started, word would get out.
The system depends on consent. A general strike would be an excellent indication of the withdrawal of consent — far more effective than public protests on their own, because a much wider swath of society would feel comfortable taking part.
Hi Fi might be all alone in the mail room.
I’ve read calls for a general strike in Oakland for 11/2.
http://www.thefastertimes.com/news/2011/10/27/occupy-oakland-calls-for-general-strike/
Let’s hope it goes national.
I’ve always wondered what would happen to the electrical grid if 5% of the population turned their lights on for ten seconds at exactly the same moment, then turned them off.
We live in a complex system. Controlling it requires second-by-second consent from the controlled. Do those who control it deserve that consent?
The US ruling class used to understand that it could remain in charge by letting everyone share in at least a bit of the society’s wealth. The last thirty years have changed everything. Rulers always overreach. Perhaps ours have.
Who knew?
http://libcom.org/library/oakland-general-strike-stan-weir
Who knew? Here’s a video on the 1946 Oakland General Strike. Why, goodness, there were veterans involved then, also.
I think PJ’s speciality is wild life art.
The Guardian blog now has video up showing Scott Olsen, allegedly moments before he was hit. The video shows him standing at attention next to a flag-bearer, placing himself between police lines and other protesters.
Of course, Hi Fi, he might have completely changed his demeanor within seconds, right?
See the 5:10pm entry here:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/blog/2011/oct/27/occupy-oakland-police-live
The tide is turning HiFi. You might want to go on record as negotiating the hiring of a few more teachers, even if they may have liberal tenancies. Otherwise the tsunami of the righteously indignant will surely take umbrage of any who champion the tax evasion of the wealthy while simultaneously manipulating the indoctrination of their youth. Why, your office might be TP’d. Tell it to the Marines.
Corporate America Pushes For Another Tax Break
By Tory Newmyer, writer
FORTUNE — The multinationals pushing Washington to grant them a tax holiday on their overseas profits have had a lot to cheer about recently.
(more)
http://finance.fortune.cnn.com/2011/10/27/tax-repatriation-support/?iid=HP_River
Hi fi. Theses folks are rabid and don’t care about facts or logic or any type of critical thinking. Its a shame because there are things we could agree with except for the rabid far left vitriol.
Anonymous said:
October 27, 2011 at 3:57 pm
“Hi fi. Theses folks are rabid and don’t care about facts or logic…”
Yeah, High Liar, he’s the King of having his facts straight. Good call (barfing)
You really let the mask slip on this one High Slime. Your very first first instinct was to demean this brave patriotic Marine standing up for his beliefs as simply a pawn in someone else’s game.
It’s a textbook exaple the right wing elites self congratulatory overly smarmy saccharine dripping fawning over “the troops” While they doing everything they possibly can to make their actual lives more difficult.
The “troops” are active duty and veterans aren’t. They don’t care any more about the troops when they leave the service than they do babies once they leave the womb. They’ll send them to fight in foreign lands for corporate profits and then shoot them in the face when they stand up for basic freedom here at home.
Recent reports, marines have lead protestors in tearing down the fences and reclaiming the Oakland site.
HOOOOOOOOOO-WAH!
“the tsunami of the righteously indignant ”
great PHRASE,3:34.
“Anonymous says:
October 27, 2011 at 9:17 am
I bet you don’t want to be identified P J. That’s a no brainer with your posts here.”
In the field of psychoanalysis this would be identified by any college level freshman as a pathetic case of projection.
Are 9:17 amd Hihly Fried going to continue “Joshin'” with us or come clean.
No brainer.
Atesticular little pansies like them have only had the chance to boast since the advent of the internet.
Prior to that, they were far too busy since their pre-school days
hiding out and wetting themselves at every suden noise or movement.
“Scott Olsen, 24, makes a good living at a software company and rents a hillside apartment with views of San Francisco Bay. And yet, his friends say, he felt so strongly about economic inequality in the country that he fought for that he slept at a San Francisco protest camp after work.”
http://news.yahoo.com/injured-vet-spent-day-nights-protest-180418013.html
Yeah, really sound like someone who was manipulated. HiFi, unless you served in the Armed Forces, I think you should STFU.
You guys are so bonky that its funny.
Hey HiFi, you can’t reason with bonky folks. Oh well.
Hugs
Anonymous 3:57 had this to say:
A truly amazing sentence. Perhaps the anonymous recognized the humor. Perhaps.
Any bets on the first Right Wing Conservative media darling who openly calls for the cops to start slaughtering OWS demonstrators?
Or has it already happened?
Good god. Get help. If this is how y’all really think, its just plain troubling. Please tell me you aren’t teachers or social workers. That would be way past troubling.
More hugs.
6:09 pm
If you tried to Hug me I’d make sure I had a tight grip on my wallet.
Really? Your empty wallet?
Read the NY post lately?
NY Post: Chad Rachman
The Occupy Wall Street volunteer kitchen staff launched a “counter” revolution yesterday — because they’re angry about working 18-hour days to provide food for “professional homeless” people and ex-cons masquerading as protesters.
For three days beginning tomorrow, the cooks will serve only brown rice and other spartan grub instead of the usual menu of organic chicken and vegetables, spaghetti bolognese, and roasted beet and sheep’s-milk-cheese salad.
They will also provide directions to local soup kitchens for the vagrants, criminals and other freeloaders who have been descending on Zuccotti Park in increasing numbers every day.
To show they mean business, the kitchen staff refused to serve any food for two hours yesterday in order to meet with organizers to air their grievances, sources said.
As the kitchen workers met with the “General Assembly’’ last night, about 300 demonstrators stormed from the park to Reade Street and Broadway, where they violently clashed with cops.
Officers made at least 10 arrests when rowdy demonstrators refused to get out of the street and stop blocking traffic. A dozen cops on scooters tried to force them back to the sidewalk.
There were no reported injuries.
The demonstrators said they were angry over the violence in Oakland.
After making their way to Union Square, many of the protesters returned to Zuccotti.
The Assembly announced the three-day menu crackdown announced earlier in the day — insisting everybody would be fed something during that period.
Some protesters threatened that the high-end meals could be cut off completely if the vagrants and criminals don’t disperse.
Unhappiness with their unwelcome guests was apparent throughout the day.
“We need to limit the amount of food we’re putting out” to curb the influx of derelicts, said Rafael Moreno, a kitchen volunteer.
A security volunteer added that the cooks felt “overworked and underappreciated.”
Many of those being fed “are professional homeless people. They know what they’re doing,” said the guard at the food-storage area.
Today, a limited menu of sandwiches, chips and some hot food will be doled out — so legitimate protesters will have a day to make arrangements for more upscale weekend meals.
Protesters got their first taste of the revolt within the revolt yesterday when the kitchen staff served only peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and chips after their staff meeting.
Organizers took other steps to police the squatters, who they said were lured in from other parks with the promise of free meals.
A team of 10 security volunteers moved in to the trouble-prone southwest section of Zuccotti Park in a show of force to confront them.
“We’re not going to let some members of this community destroy the whole movement,” a volunteer said.
Some arguments broke out as the security team searched tents — but no violence erupted.
Overall security at the park had deteriorated to the point where many frightened female protesters had abandoned the increasingly out-of-control occupation, security- team members said.
Rumors swirled that one homeless man had pulled a knife in a dispute the night before — and that there had been yet another case of groping.
But protesters and a cop on duty told The Post that most of the crime goes unreported, because of a bizarre “stop snitching” rule.
“What’s happening in there is staying in there,” said the cop.
Additional reporting by Josh Saul, Erin Calabrese and Julia Marsh
Next he’ll be posting Malkin and Coulter links.
“Asked about the Post article, Patrick Bruner, a spokesman for Occupy Wall Street, tells us, “The kitchen is scaling back operations for three days in a planned move to help build their infrastructure. Our movement has grown exponentially, and the kitchen feels as though their systems are in need of strengthening. By their rough estimates they feed around 1,200 people per mealtime. The three days of scaled-back activity will give them a chance to reinforce and streamline their current operations. Food will still be available for anyone who wants it.”
It’s funny how for a protest that no one cares about they are trying so very hard to discredit it.
The NY Post is trying to discredit? Really? Was listening to NPR yesterday and heard from an Occupy Arcata guy complaining about the prof homeless sccrewing up their protest. Hmmmm. It was a station out of Soquel. Why you folks think that people who call bullshit on you are conservatives is beyond me, but have at it.
And more hugs P J.
The NY Post is a Murdoch rag. An individual in Arcata’s opinion about the homeless is irrelevant. Surely you don’t think that Occupy Arcata guy speaks for the all the protesters in every city. And again, it’s odd that a protest of losers is causing so much anxiety on the right. Goldman Sach’s is so upset over a tiny credit union taking OWS deposits that they’ve pulled out of a fundraiser and taken back their donation because OWS is also being honored. The corporate media ringers have done their best to confuse the dull witted about the reason for the protest but pretty much everyone has experienced it either directly or through family and friends. The only thing dividing the 99% is who is to blame. Both sides agree that corrupt government is at least half to blame, but one side says it’s only the government’s fault and the other side says it is the corporate corruption of government. My view is it doesn’t do any good to change the politicians when the new ones are taking bribes before they even take office.
I believe in the cause of the OWS, but the Occupy Arcata protest is a joke!
Hey P J. Here’s a newsflash. QUIT voting for the same ol same ol. Sheesh this ain’t rocket science.
Hugs.
Oh and for a big PS. Go Gov Brown. I voted for you to help fix this shit and your off to a good start. What do you say P J and Joel and Robash and the rest of you five posers.
Oops my bad.. Should have said posters?
I don’t really care who some lying double talking anonymous coward claims to have voted for…
Jerry Brown has been it politics for so long and ran for so many different offices As a long time California voter in good standing I’ve had the opportunity to vote for ,and against Moonbeam several times.
Newsflash ahat. I don’t give a fart about who you think voted for Jerry. I did and you are an ass hat. He’s great and I spoke with him at the Samoa Cookhouse. Now bite me jerk.
I’m somebody you’re nobody .Fuck your anonymous opinion.
..
P J and followers. Read the Crucible you shites. Good luck with that.
So sorry no Shites here! We are all good Sonnys!
Think big. Not small. Reject the lowlifes who will infiltrate our movement. This isn’t about the perma homeless and perma done. This is diff and if you folks don’t get it then you are right up there with the FoX
Whats up mirror morons, too quiet over there?
Morning folks. New day, new round of insults?
Anon @ 6:44
Is this the ‘humor’ that Curley enjoys
from the Mirror? Or is it the cruel irony
of creating divisions FOX STYLE.
New meme: it’s all about the menu!
Yep, no story here.
And Robash, calling Jerry Brown ‘Moonbeam’
at this stage shows you are not paying attention.
His policies, if we had adopted them, would have made
California the number one economy in the world.
*He alerted us 30 years ago that putting our engineers
into defense aerospace was a dead-end.
We milked Defense to the hilt, Jerry encouraged directing
California’s engineers towards alternative energy.
Gee, where would that put us today?
Moonbeam or man with vision?
Excuse me, I meant Governor Moonbeam, sorry..
Dan,
Absolutely, on both counts.
And imagine if we’d listened to Jimmy Carter instead of Ronald Reagan. He put solar on the White House roof; Reagan went to the effort of taking it down.
Both men would be considered moderate right today. The whole left/right dichotomy is an out-of-date lie. The difference is between people who believe any GDP is good GDP and people who think.
Meanwhile from Andy Borowitz, a little levity
“The Chinese government raised eyebrows around the world today by announcing a mysterious national movement called “Occupy America.”
In a brief statement, the Chinese government said that while Occupy America was “not exactly a protest movement,” its effects would be felt in “every city, town and Wal-Mart in America.”
Hinting that the movement had widespread support in China, the statement said that Occupy America “would have the full participation of approximately 1.3 billion Chinese.”
At the State Department, Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said that the goals of Occupy America “remain unclear,” adding, “The official policy of the U.S. government towards things we don’t fully understand is to do nothing.”
Later, after a phone call with Chinese officials, Secretary Clinton said she came away feeling reassured: “They told me that Occupy America actually started thirty years ago.”
Elsewhere, to mark the Statue of Liberty’s 125th birthday, police across the country beat up protesters.
PJ-
Protester speaks about throwing bottles at police in Oakland=
Where are the videos 8:10? A person saying they were a protester and saying there were bottles thrown isn’t a video. WHY are there no videos available when we know the media, the protesters and the cops were all videoing nonstop. I don’t know if bottles were thrown or not, but I’m not going to take the word of some might as well be nameless person when there is no explicable reason for there to be no videos showing the bottle throwing.
Every protest movement is infiltrated by opponents who use various tactics to disrupt and discredit it. Infiltrators try to stir internal dissent and make the movement look bad to the public. They do such things as break windows and throw rocks and bottles to justify police violence.
We’ve all seen the videos where it is obvious the police were trying to provoke violence from the protesters, particularly at the Occupy San Diego protest where they were randomly beating, choking, throwing passive people on the ground by their hair and then just walking away with no arrests. There can be no other reason for such police actions than to enrage the protesters. Surrounding an occupy site, rousting and beating the protesters is also to incite rage, hoping for a violent reaction so they can use even harsher methods to break up the protest.
From Truthdig: Protesters Set Their Sights On Wal-Mart
“The company, which has more than 2 million employees and counts profits in the double-digit billions year after year, is notorious for paying low wages, skimping on benefits, demanding long shifts and forcing local stores out of business.
“They’re a really good example of everything that’s wrong with corporate America.
“A 2004 report found that Wal-Mart sucks $1.5 billion from American taxpayers’ pockets annually to cover the cost of its workers’ needs for health care, food stamps and housing.
P J. It must be really hard to type your crap at the same time you have your eyes closed tight and your fingers stuck in your ears. I got my info about the Oakland violence against the police from MSNBC. Guess you’ve been too busy to watch. Also, if you go to the OWS website they posted a youtube video of the bottle, rock and paint throwing before the tear gas and bean bags were used.
Fact checker, maybe you can checkKemo Sabe’s facts on who served in the military and who did not. He shows Ted Kennedy was in the Army! What army would that be ?
Occupy San Diego
Anonymous must have some sort of nanny filter that doesn’t allow it to post links.
8:56, Ted Kennedy was in the US Army 1951-1953
We should demand for the unionization of the occupy soup kitchen, and the entire protest. No one should be allowed to eat, or protest unless they have a union card.
Scab would be the perfect example of a disrupting infiltrator. And probably one who would climb over babies to get in front of a news camera to claim membership and confess the crimes of the movement while lamely justifying them.
“Joel that is a stupid question …”
HiFi, what part of “what about the shameless, gutless cowardly scumbags who sent him to Iraq in the first place?” do you find to be stupid?
I was, of course, referring to Bush and Cheney, but I’d be happy to include Condoleezza Rice, Paul Wolfowitz, George Tenet, John Negroponte, Alberto Gonzales, and a whole raft of lying neocon pieces turds. I await your spirited defense of them.
Oops. I was going to write “pieces of shit,” but I thought that “turds” would be more genteel.
Yes Teddy Kennedy honorably served our country in the US Army. However, the leadership of the Republican party and the so-called “conservatve” movement is stacked high with utterly craven sociopaths who love war and fetishize aggressive militarisim who have never bothered to put on the uniform themselves. This is the one trait that makes me despise them more than anything else.
Joel, is that what passes for reasonable debate now ?
And of course the profits they gain from their shares in myriad corporations engaged in the war business and fabulous jobs in same businesses after leaving office wouldn’t bias their opinions.
Common practice: somebody(s) on the side of johnny law goes undercover black block and starts throwing stuff, vandalizing etc so the cops suddenly say they have reason to stomp heads. ZERO reporting of these incidences happening all over the world. “black block” having evolved into a term recognizing police infiltrating protests for just such reason.
International developmentThe first recorded use of the tactic in United States of America was in 1989 at a protest at the Pentagon. Other early use in the US were the Earth Day Wall Street Action in 1990 and the February 1991 protests against the Gulf War. These were initiated by Love and Rage, a North American revolutionary anarchist organization active in New York. Black blocs gained significant media attention when a black bloc caused damage to property of GAP, Starbucks, Old Navy, and other retail locations in downtown Seattle during the 1999 anti-WTO demonstrations.[17] They were a common feature of subsequent anti-globalization protests.[18] During the 2010 G20 Summit in Toronto, a black bloc riot damaged a number of retail locations including an Urban Outfitters, American Apparel, Adidas Store, Starbucks and many banking establishments.[19][20]
[edit] Police infiltrationPolice and security services have infiltrated black blocs with undercover officers. Since all members conceal their identities, it is harder to recognize infiltrators. Allegations first surfaced after several demonstrations. At the 2001 G8 summit in Genoa, amongst the many complaints about the police [21] there was mention of video footage in which “men in black were seen getting out of police vans near protest marches.”[22] In August 2007, Quebec police admitted that “their officers disguised themselves as demonstrators.” On these occasions, some were identified by genuine protesters because of their police-issue footwear.[23][24]
Joel. What’s the matter dude. Are we forgetting about BamBams troops in A-stan. Or bombing in Lib? How’s about the troops just sent to Africa. How about putting a US citizen and his minor teenage son on a kill list? WTF?
Frankly I am done with the Bamster and will vote independent this time around.
PS. Activia might clear up your morning cranky. Try it.
Anonymous said:
October 28, 2011 at 8:56 am
“Fact checker, maybe you can checkKemo Sabe’s facts on who served in the military and who did not. He shows Ted Kennedy was in the Army! What army would that be ?”
Come on! you and High Liar are low hanging fruit.
“Kennedy enlisted in the United States Army in June 1951 (signing up for an optional four-year term, which was shortened to the minimum two years after his father intervened).[9] Following basic training at Fort Dix, he requested assignment to Fort Holabird for Army Intelligence training, but was dropped after a few weeks without explanation.[9] He went to Camp Gordon for training in the Military Police Corps.[9] In June 1952, Kennedy was assigned to the honor guard at SHAPE headquarters in Paris.[1][9] His father’s political connections ensured he was not deployed to the ongoing Korean War.[1][10] While stationed in Europe he traveled extensively on weekends and climbed the Matterhorn.[11] He was discharged in March 1953 as a private first class.[9][11]”
Fact Checker. Wikipedia? Quit cutting and pasting.
Factless is correct for once.
But really, is that a military record that is worth bragging about ? He served only two years, during wartime and in a “honor” guard ? He got weekends off in Europe and vacationed by climbing the Matterhorn.
Despite all his father’s connections, he never got beyond a PFC rank.
As opposed to the loudmouth chickenhawks banging the war drums (as long as they aren’t the ones to put their asses on the line).
High Fi and the rest of the right wing neo-royalist sycophants serving the 1%, along with their masters in the 1%, are proof positive that scum rises to the top.
Like I said before Ted Kennedy served honorably in the US Army.While his military record might not be exceptional it is miles better better than a lot of these filthy war-mongering cowards on the right.
p
Hi Fi,
I feel more than a bit foolish wasting my time asking this, but what motivates you? I’m really mystified. Is spinning like a sport for you? Are there people who know you by your pseudonym who you are impressing? There doesn’t appear to be any fact you won’t deny or belittle. I can’t imagine anyone would pay you for this, so I can only guess you feel you are spending your time productively.
What is the value to you of trashing a dead politician’s 1951 military service? What is the value to you of pretending an enormous wealth shift has not taken place? Why would your first response to a brave Iraq vet choosing to join Occupy protests be that it must be shameful manipulation by the people he joined with?
Do you think you are sowing doubt? Here? You’re not.
Do you think you are impressing anyone? Here? You’re not.
Do you think you are honing your debating skills? Here? You’re not.
But, but, but Rushbo demolishes his liberal callers with those spins! Why don’t they work on a political blog?
It was interesting to read about the Iraq vet in today’s paper. The man has a good paying job, he chose to attend the protests because of his beliefs regarding economic inequality. He was honored for his Iraq bravery and he is well regarded by his coworkers as hardworking and intellegent.
Just about every sentence contradicts the hapless victim stereotype described by HiFi. Has HiFi yet addressed his inaccurate characterization?
High Slime If you denegrate one Americans honorable military service then you are demeaning all Americans who have served honorably.
Anonymous says:
October 28, 2011 at 10:32 am
“Fact Checker. Wikipedia? Quit cutting and pasting.”
Just checking facts so the Fair & Balanced traitors don’t get away with their High Lies. No opinions from me, just Fact Checking. Sorry about your luck Homer.
High Finance says:
October 28, 2011 at 9:40 am
Joel, is that what passes for reasonable debate now ?
At least Joel is a real person who has the guts to post his opinions here. Unlike some…..
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Mitch, he was a rich trust fund baby and his daddy got him out of the war into a cushy job where he could vacation climbing mountains.
You are so God Damn partisan you won’t (or can’t) see this. By “honoring” his service you demean and insult those soldiers (like my brother and uncle) who were slogging through the mud and snow of Korea getting shot at.
Robash, I despair of ever reading an intelligent post by you. You are very disappointing.
11.45am. You misread my post again. He wasn’t a “hapless victim” until he got injured. Then the occupiers cynically used his injury to garner support and publicity.
High Treason said:
October 28, 2011 at 12:18 pm
“Mitch, he was a rich trust fund baby and his daddy got him out of the war into a cushy job where he could vacation climbing mountains.”
No blow too low. No gutter too slimy. No Robber Barron too rich.
Fact Checker,
I expect Hi Fi is referring to Kennedy, not Olsen.
For all I know, Hi Fi may be right about Kennedy’s service. But Kennedy served, unlike so many chicken-hawks on the right. If Mr. Fi wanted to find a more recent example of a political figure who may have had a questionable commitment to personal involvement in national security, he knows where he can look, as do we all.
In the meantime, there’s this:
http://www.snopes.com/military/limbaugh.asp
thx Mitch, my misunderstanding but knowing Hi Fi …
You don’t get off that easy, HiFi.
I am, in fact, asking for a reasonable debate. I made the point that Bush, et al, were more culpable for sending the lad to Iraq in the first place in response to your nutty assertion that protest organizers were somehow culpable for sending him into harm’s way in Oakland. I have evidence to back up my assertion. Can you back your claim up?
It’s possible that Kennedy Sr did pull some strings to protect his son but it might have been because he already lost one son and had another who was greviously wounded in combat. All of his sons served in the military. Unlike Hi Slime
Hilarious how High Slime accuses Mitch of being partisan right before he launches a completely slimy partisan attack on Ted kennedys service record.
You folks are a nasty angry bunch. Its quite sad.
Good luck with that.
Hugs.
Anonymous says:
October 28, 2011 at 2:44 pm
“You folks are a nasty angry bunch. Its quite sad.
Good luck with that.
Hugs.:”
Wow! A more authentic hug I have NEVER had. ROTFLMAO!
“Hugs” is the new (or recycled) Arkley / right-wing apologist.
Get ready for the “every man/woman” statements from another middle-brow conservative dupe incapable of understanding how current policy is degrading the American quality of life.
High Slime @ 2:44 Pm I’m very touched by your concern for my mental well being . One thing that would guarantee better humor and happiness from me would be for
you to STOP trying to foist your right wing BULLSHIT upon everyone!
@3:59 “hugs” is just High Dirtbag sneakily assuming another persona in typically punk assed and chickenbleep fashion..
You gotta be kidding me 3:59? Conservative? That’s gonna get a big laugh at dinner tonight. That’s what is screwed up with the ultra left. EVERYBODY else is lumped and dumped on as a conservative if you have the audacity to disagree with the 4 or 5 here. (Excluding Joel who I often agree with and think has a sense of humor).
Double hugs.
P.S. No hugs for Robash141. He needs to go to his room with no dinner for being in such a piss poor mood.
^^^^^^^ 13 years old. Another republican with arrested development.
Robash, are you off your meds again today ? You desperately need some help and fast.
Mitch, you or one of your friends posted a list of Dems who served and Reps who didn’t. My comment was the subject of Ted Kennedy not belonging on the list that served.
And Bush had the support of many of the Democrats in congress when he sent the troops to Iraq. WTF does it matter if he served or not ? Roosevelt never served and he sent troops to Europe & Asia. Lincoln never served before he sent troops into war. John Adams & Hancock never served before declaring war on England in 1776 or Madison in 1812. Obama never served before sending the air force into Libya and now he wants to send them to Africa.
Just another cheap partisan shot.
HiFi, people who didn’t serve, like you and me, don’t have the right to say which veterans belong on a list of who served and which don’t.
It makes sense to people who have sense, Hugs, but thanks for letting everyone know that you can’t understand simple concepts expressed in little words.
“Roosevelt never served and he sent troops to Europe & Asia.”
Yes, but he sent two sons and lost one. Really, HiFi, that’s your defense of Bush? Have you no shame?
Hugs, you need to go. Come back when you get a little older and learn a thing or two.
No one reads the humboldt mirror anymore,so if hugs wants anyone to read his or her drivel,it has to be posted here.
Your’e wrong, guy-with-unpronouceable-name 11:12. At least a half-dozen people read the Mirror. I only read it because I must. What’s your excuse?
Once again, the Guardian covers the horrors of today’s America. Today, an 18 year old who has lived for four years with leukemia that she cannot afford to treat:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/oct/28/occupy-san-francisco-cancer-patient
Mr. Fi?
She should have chosen rich parents, Mitch. It’s all her fault.
But at SF Gate, the news is happier. They feature an article on Military Cooks getting advanced training. No worries. Thank goodness for America’s professional media.
I know a woman who had leukemia that required a bone marrow transplant. Her parents mortgaged their home to pay for it and lost it to foreclosure a couple of years ago. But they were lucky they had the assets to save their child’s life.
High Finance< when I say that someone served honorably in the military that means that they have been Honorably Discharged.from the US Military That's not my opinion ,it's what the Department of Defense says that counts. They are the ultimate authority in this matter . It's not subject that you can spin or twist. Unless you can show me Ted Kennedy's DD-214 that says that he received a less than honorable discharge , then you need to STFU about that subject. But you can't because you don't even have any notion about DD-214s, because you, in spite of your blustery machismo jingo affectations . never really had the sack to take that walk to the recruitment station. . Trashing and demeaning the service of any American who served this great country honorably in the US Military is a low down, hypocritical cheap shot even by your standards. .
Robash141. Do you feel a need to tell others to STFU? Hmmm. Ms Manners wouldn’t approve.
H u g s.
Well then Robash & PJ should not be criticising Pres Bush for he also served.
You are not much smarter than a planaria based upon the logic above, High Finance.
http://tinyurl.com/3r7d2ya
Do you remember those tests you took? An apple is to an orange as a wrench is to a:
1. rose
2. hammer
3. farm
4. hippie
How did you do?
Tsk tsk tsk. Bill didn’t both pj and robash say that anyone who didn’t serve doesn’t get to comment on anything like who is on or off lists and trashing and demeaning those who did serve is way bad? Seems like HiFi has a logical point.
Heard a plazoid scream baby killer at a Marine 2 weeks ago Sunday. What’s with that Bill, Jane and Robash? Cognitive Dissonance?
Just a thought.
H u g s!
Suggestion to all re: military service: watch the documentary “Sir, no sir!”
If you’re not on the side of the protesters, ask yourself what happened to your thinking. Always remember, “Don’t break the picket line!”
Don’t be a scab in spirit, either.
I think Bill may be going off the deep end and needs much more than h u g s.
Saying non-veterans don’t have the right to say which veteran belongs on a list of veterans is not saying non-veterans can’t criticize veterans. And someone calling a veteran a baby killer has nothing to do with Occupy protests or any relationship to the discussion here. Do you have Asperger’s?
Wow, Jane. Very UN PC
Whatever, Hugs. Asperger’s would explain your inability to understand simple statements, illogic and lack of perspective, that black / white thinking you display so proudly.
“And Bush had the support of many of the Democrats in congress when he sent the troops to Iraq. WTF does it matter if he served or not ? Roosevelt never served and he sent troops to Europe & Asia. Lincoln never served before he sent troops into war. John Adams & Hancock never served before declaring war on England in 1776 or Madison in 1812. Obama never served before sending the air force into Libya and now he wants to send them to Africa.
Just another cheap partisan shot.”
High Finance is completely correct in this matter.
Historically speaking, I believe it’s important to consider the poison malignancy that is ANY standing militray.
During the war of 1812, the professional military in this country was quite delighted to follow the then current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, D.C. in an expansionist attack on Canada.
The local state’s militias refused to aid the D.C. adventurists and some of the U.S.’s most illustrious future military figures were captured, scattered, embarrassed, etc.
Likewise, when the pro-democracy kids in Tienmen Square were approached by the citizen’s militias, the square’s occupiers stood the militias down.
It was the professional military that returned to set upon the protestors.
(An interesting aside,those demonstrators were agitating againsnt economic distoprrions from “free trade” and the “unleashing of the asian tiger” and wanting “more citizen participation, government and corporate accountability”, Likewise, Greece, Iceland, WTO Seattle, Arab Spring……..)
The recent visits by our new Anonymous are doing us regulars a great service. Listen carefully and you’ll see how easy it is to slip from anecdote to conclusion when your mind is closed.
Everyone — whether they self-report as right, left, or center — should be aware of such mental traps. They are easy to fall into, and never helpful.
Thanks, new Anonymous. Good luck in freeing yourself.
Also, “lower-case ‘anonymous'” mentions the movie “Sir, No Sir!” It’s fantastic, truly a must-see.
According to Mitch 7:32, OWS not only exploits veterans, they are exploiting a sick child with leukemia!
Shame on you and your evil OWS exploiters.
As I’ve posted here before, 25% of the population are veterans and therefore it’s irrelevant that 25% of the homeless are vets. The same is true for the ill. 40% of the population is under-insured, thus, 40% must suffer for it. You can’t change the laws of statistics and economics, they don’t lie, it’s the way things are supposed to be and cannot be challenged.
Everything in my universe is as it should be.
You people need to find another planet to whine on.
What do you think I need High Finance?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
That sounds very interesting, Mitch. I hadn’t even heard of it.
Compare Ted Kennedy’s military record with Dan Quayle’s. Similar. Apples, Oranges.
Compare John McCain’s military record to John Murtha’s. Similar. Apples, oranges.
Compare John Kerry’s military record, combat vet in Nam, decorated, in a combat command, with George Bush’s, AWOL pilot in an auxillary Guard unit. Hammers and hippies.
That is the sad state of High Finances cognitive process.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Whatever else you may think I need, High Finance, remember I already have a pinata. Just sayin’.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
What Now at 141 you miss the point. What I object to is High Slime is imposing his own thoroughly subjective partisan litmus test upon who’s military service is worthy or unworthy based on their political affiliation.Pretty soon people on the Right are going to start saying that Scott Olson was not a real Marine either simply because they do not agree with his political stance.
It’s infuriating because it’s just part and parcel to a larger trend of the one per centers and their Social Darwinist apologists just arbitrarily selecting out all whom they perceive as unworthy.
What Now ,when they come for the veterans ,are you going to speak up?
If anyone misconstrued my remarks deliberately or otherwise, to suggest that I’m in favor of Military Service being a perquisite for Public Office then they are mistaken.
PJ and all,
Asbergers syndrome? Really?
Reread robash @ 11:57 yesterday and 9:04 today.
And then think of new insults. Perhaps accuse those you disagree with as being retarded, or crips, or gay or black or whatever. Janey you need a time out.
Once again, the Guardian covers the horrors of today’s America. Today, an 18 year old who has lived for four years with leukemia that she cannot afford to treat:
She should have chosen rich parents, Mitch. It’s all her fault.
She should have stayed in line for a government union job. She’s a victim of not being able to afford her union dues, other wise she would have been take care of by the brotherhood. Down with union dues!
Note: The documentary “Sir! No Sir!” is available for instant streaming rental or purchase at Amazon. It is available on DVD only at Netflix.
Plain Jane, do you have a job? Just curious. I agree with you position in your 10/28/2001 posts (8:35am and 846am)!!! If there is no video that an Oakland Police Officer fired a projectile that hit the young Iraq war vertern then, by your rational, it could have been a protesters brick, bottle, or rock! PJ you are truly too stupid for words.
I checked Wikipedia and they say Ted Kennedy was in fact in the U.S. Army, 1951 to 1953, after being expelled from Harvard for Cheating. There was no explanation about getting bumped out of military intel training in Maryland? Who knows.
But Wikipedia also says that SHAPE (actually SHAFE) is in Belgim and not France. As a PFC (private first class) Ted would not have been eligble to serve at the SHAFE (Supreme Headquarters Allied Forces Europe) as you had to be a minimum of a Sgt E-5.
But I must think that there is some reason TK did not bragg about his service for political points, unless there is something that he didn’t want examined by a brither light. And I wonder with Old Man Kennedy’s money and political juice why Teddy wsn’t made an officer?
Ted Kennedy served honorably in the Army that’s what counts.It’s your wholly subjective speculative judgements about the quality of his service do not count for anything.
The most blatant US assassination in recent history, happened in broad daylight right under everybody’s hypnotized noses:
http://tinyurl.com/3t6vpdk
Kennedy Jr. basically says “When (not if) I’m president, I’m going to out the evil within our own government.”. Less than a year before formally announcing his plans, he’s killed.
Despite the devolution of this thread due to the [“distractionary” ©]antics of hugs & hi-as-f@#$%n-fi, et al, the fact of this matter is obviously the over-reaction by police forces. These forces of state coersion were apparently badly controlled, or not controlled at all, by civilian authorities. All of this resulted in a young man of obvious character & moral integrity being unjustly injured in a grave manner. All of this after dutifully serving his country and putting his life on the line- not once but twice!
To the obscene and indecent traitors to the principles this nation was founded on (hi-fi, hugs and all their brown-nosing ilk), I say you should be deeply ashamed of your pathetic attempts to defame Mr. Olsen.
Disgusting!!!
Where the hell was Olsen defamed? Are you high?
The documentary “Sir! Yes Sir!” is riveting. Thanks for the recommendation.
Riveting? Hardly – unless you are stuck in the late 60’s early 70’s. I am about 40 years younger. And… I am part of the 53 percent.
Have fun with that.
PJ,
It’s amazing what just seems to drop from mainstream history, isn’t it?
Thanks for the recommendation, Mitch. It’s available on Netflix.
It’s pretty clear why it did, Mitch. They don’t want us to remember how ordinary people shook the foundations of the country and large numbers of the military were openly rebellious with many more covertly supportive of the rebellion. People who remember the military doesn’t always side with entrenched power might be less tolerant of corruption and oppression.
Netflix only has it on DVD.
Just saw “Sir, No Sir.”
Great documentary. Thanks, Mitch!