City Hall camper in court
UPDATE (1/8/10): Starr was found not guilty.
###
The only camper arrested at the December 6th break-up of a homeless camp in the Eureka City Hall parking lot will be in court Thursday morning. Kimberly “Verbena” Starr was arrested for trespassing according to the Lumberjack, after refusing police orders to leave the parking lot.
Starr wrote in an email to supporters that she plans to question Eureka Police Lt. Murl Harpham at the hearing, and possibly City Manager Dave Tyson.
We believe that the City of Eureka could not figure out what exactly we were doing that was illegal, so they (the City Counsel, Manager, and cops) implemented a huge police operation to end the City Hall Safe Sleep Space/protest anyway. I have been attempting to elicit all of the memos, notes, agendas, everything that the city and the cops generated in planning their raid on City Hall. We know they violated the open meeting laws to decide what to do, and we know they had over half the Eureka police force there to intimidate us out of the parking lot at City Hall. Of course, the City and the cops and the DA have refused to hand over the documents and things that the court ordered them to hand over, and I will not stop seeking those nasty plans and things.
More on Starr’s legal theories from the People Project blog.
Court starts at 8:30 in Courtroom 7.
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The Humboldt Herald 
An appropriate sentence for this outlaw is Home Detention!
No, make the troll get a job.
WWJD
I doubt that somebody who doesn’t understand how to follow orders (such as when an officer of the law) would have much of a chance to keep a job – sooner or later she would be ordered to clean the toilets or grab a mop… at which point she’d just have to sit down and cry foul.
She is costing the court system thousands of dollars with this nonsense. First, by trespassing in the first place, then defying the officers orders to vacate, then the expense of being booked in jail.
Finally she is costing thousands of dollars in salaries paid to the judge, bailiff, public defender & prosecutor. If she gets a jury trial she will be wasting the valuable time, not just the 12 jurors, but the 100 other people called for the jury pool.
30 days in jail is being to kind to this idiot.
Good thing the founding mothers & fathers of this nation didn’t display the obsequiousness to authority expressed here. Disturbingly un-American sentiments.
While the methods of Ms Starr often times appear somewhat strategically unfocused, her dedication to the decent and humane treatment and provision of basic services to those without is clearly an act of heart and compassion.
Consider the costs of “justice” here as a reflection of (a portion of) the true cost a society pays when it casts away its’ most vulnerable. Selfishness is not a virtue.
Ok- I demand the City of Eureka make my housepayment because I’d rather use what resources I have to buy drugs and alcohol.
Obey or Die, comparing a dirtbag like starr to our founding fathers is classic….
She is a bum. A thief. A drug dealer and user. She has the same rights that the rest of us enjoy. If I did the things that she gets away with I would be ticketed,fined and or put in jail for 30days. She thinks she has a right for me and you to pay her way and that she should receive special treatment at all times.
So..
In High Finances world, only the deserving get their day in court? While I don’t endorse her idiocy, I do think everyone should have equal access to the law. Kinda like our Constitution says.
Meh.
If Tad gets 30 days, why not her?
Let’s see… Kim Starr is costing the system too much money by trying to help people keep warm in the winter. Of course, the entire political system has already provided $250 billion and more (that’s somewhere around $800 per citizen) to buy bad assets from the banks, in exchange for the bankers agreeing to… wait for it… keep the money.
And you people are disgusting enough to complain about Starr? Yes, disgusting is the word.
Great comparison Mitch. Kook.
Why do you all bark at the hand that feeds you?
Verbena is one of my heroes. She works harder than anyone else I know to help defend the defenseless. Just because someone speaks out and takes action against injustice and the war on houseless peoples doesn’t mean she is a “bum” or a “thief”. She doesn’t “deal or use drugs”. This is a fact that ANYONE who has the pleasure of knowing her can affirm.
It’s easy for people who are more fortunate than others to make blanket assumptions and accusations against those who challenge the status quo. Just more proof about what humanity is up against.
Itself…
This is a brand new year, a new decade. Let’s start it off with compassion and understanding. Afterall, the economy hasn’t been good to everyone, aside from “Screwdges” like “High Finance”. Where is OUR bailout? The numbers of unemployed and houseless people are increasing while companies like Goldman Sachs are spending your taxes on bonuses for undeserving snakes such as Bryan Plumley.
It’s up to all of us to create a world that is more friendly, compassionate and just.
Why not start at home?
Great work Verbena! It takes a lot of courage to take a stand against injustice. I hope those of you reading this that have a direct connect from your heart and soul to your mind shows up to support Verbena at her trial. PARC needs help too! Visit http://peopleproject.wordpress.com to get involved. Action is the antidote for despair…
Is Bucky the Cat posting as Mitch? The logic is about the same.
So maybe those less fortunate can camp in your yard, Jeff? She can’t follow the rules laid down for the rest of us so give her a pass. She is bat shit crazy about publicity for herself, not the homeless or she would actually accomplish something akin to Betty, such as showers.
What we need is some programs like Gavin Newsom put into Frisco.
Homeward Bound is a tight program. Buys one-way bus tickets for people to go somewhere else. Brilliant.
He put in this other program that confiscated like 4/5 of welfare checks and put that into some more subsidized cheap motels. I know we already got a gang of motels rented out to poor folks, but it’s not like tourists want to stay in the ones that aren’t anyway. Maybe if not motels, buy up some more properties and stick people in those with some welfare money.
But funding a homeless camp while still ganking our money to hand out in general assistance, ssi, and whatnot? Jack us up once and then jack us again to pay for some bureaucrats to manage a parking lot? Fuck that, for real. I’m down with it if the money is moved off of some other bullshit program to pay for it. Maybe slash welfare checks 90% and bankroll some U-Domes in a lot somewhere. Shit, put it in city hall.
It’s not like there ain’t parking all around that area anyway. Behind city hall with that tweaker house and the mental guy who writes shit backwards in his window like anyone is reading that, there is always plenty of parking there. Not like that whole area is auto property crime central or anything.
I’m told by many people that Verbena loves to seek out confrontations and harass officials. In fact, she’s not very well liked because of that by many people. One thing that these jobless hippies and other brain dead pot people in Humboldt don’t realize is that it is illegal to camp on county owned property! Apparently no one in this county knows this but it is in the law books. Don’t believe me? Go ask a lawyer. I did.
I don’t have or “own” a yard, “Nohart”. I’m for all for “Pirate Property” :)
Mr. Nice makes a good point. There are plenty of empty homes and buildings. Why not put them to use for something good? And why not take the bureaucracy out of helping the less fortunate, and let them run things themselves? Is that not what Verbena was trying to accomplish? And look, she did it WITHOUT using your tax dollars.
It is the failed bureaucracy inherent in the system that is costing your tax dollars. The EPD and the DA made the decision to close the camp. I’m sure that if the City provided a space for the spaceless, that the issue would have been resolved.
The City is lacking in accommodations for those who need help. The list of those who need help is only increasing. You, your friend, or a family member may be on that list next…
City property, Sun Valley. As in City Hall.
Read the article.
Oh my. I seem to have got myself into an argument with someone named Cheese Dick, and someone named Anonymous.
I don’t know “Verbena,” but she certainly wasn’t the only one involved in helping people shelter themselves on unused parking by City Hall. But if the county and the city aren’t going to provide safe shelter for people in cold weather, no matter what the reason someone might need it, I’m glad at least some folks are willing to do what needs to be done.
Mitch and Jeff you are both B.S. I have little money and power yet I pay may way and help others. Many others. Starr is a sinking pit that you and many others fall into while bringing nothing to the table. She is not a beacon she is a burned out bulb.
You know, Anonymous 11:21, an awful lot of the homeless needing shelter are vets. But I’m glad to hear you pay your way and help others.
No Anonymous 11:21, I don’t have a Bachelor’s degree in Science. I’m not sure about Mitch, but I can tell you failed to pay attention in high school English.
Mitch is right on. The military doesn’t take care of their own…
I can’t speak on behalf of what occured in the city hall parking lot, or what may have happened at the council meeting. So, I will just wait for the facts for an incident whick appears to have occured on “public property” outside of any easemented rights-of-way areas (those areas where loitering is illegal due to ingress, egress and general public / utility rights and covenants). I wonder if this issue has any relative legal ties to the 30 day time period for which courts have found as a determining factor regarding the “establishment of residency”.
Anyhow, I have spoke with Miss Starr in the past and she is not stupid or unintelligient by any stretch of the imagination; and, she is quite forward, open and seems to have a heart to boot! So, how many of us in Humboldt County are willing to engage in the community service she helps to provide for others living a less fortunate and comfortable position in their life? I don’t know exactly what happened, so again, let us just wait for some facts to come out rather than applying a premature labeling to a person who is involved in something that we are not – big difference.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Humboldt is a haven for the unwashed, unemployed and politically charged…and that is why I love it here.
The bar has been lowered for everyone and this new curve allows anyone to be “super”.
I see a lot of people in eureka who don’t appear like they are at all functional. That is a fact of a society, that a portion of the society will not be able to participate due to mental illness, disability, or what ever.
Should we in our evolved society sacrifice our resources for them? Telling them to get a job seems useless, considering the amount of “normal” people currently unemployed.
Maybe we need a concentration camp…or a soyent green factory.
That’s pure evil. Thanks for showing your true colors, Cheese/Bolithio.
Mitch 10.19am. Yes, the federal government gave “$250 billion and more” to the banks to keep them from failing.
But the federal government has given TRILLIONS & TRILLIONS of dollars over the last few decades to the poor via numerous programs.
The result being is NO reduction in the number of the poor but a HUGE expansion in the number of people who now rely on the government for everything.
To me this is still about dollars. To other people it seems to be about some fake sense of morality. This pull up your bootstraps, get a haircut, and get a job mentality like that is really some type of intelligent answer to a complex social problem.
I know how it is with this system. Folks who disparage the poor have never been there and don’t get it. You can’t get food stamps or assistance if you work too much. To get help, you gotta fit some messed up eligibility parameters which usually means not doing shit on purpose or working under the table pitching drugs. You can’t get a haircut and get a job or else the government will cut you off.
These folks have nowhere to sleep. Provide them with somewhere to sleep, problem solved. Since the government is obviously broke, I say we take funds straight out of the cash that already goes to people on welfare rolls. This would weed out the so-called “homeless by choice” when they get a check for $40 instead of $400 along with a voucher to squat in some housing. Those who want to actually live somewhere will be glad they can afford it and those who don’t can apply for a bus ticket out of town.
And what happened to public bathrooms?
What’s with the character assassination on Verbena? That’s real fucking enlightened. Makes me feel like she must be doing something right.
High,
Let’s say you’re right about the “TRILLIONS & TRILLIONS.” Yes. Poor people need to eat over and over again. If you don’t feed the damn things, they keel over and then you have to either use precious medical supplies or find someone to bury them to keep the smell down.
I suppose shipping them off to India was an option, until India began beating us at high tech.
Which poor people are you referring to, High?
The employed poor? When you include FICA and Medicare taxes, they’re paying a marginal tax rate about equal to a Reagan/Bush millionnaire.
The crazy poor? Lots of them, for sure. It’s a real pain to have crazy people around, because the employed poor don’t like working next to people who are shouting or drooling. What would you suggest, no food or shelter for crazy people?
The lazy poor? Ah, here’s the low-hanging fruit, right, High? Those millions and millions of welfare mothers. But, see, Clinton took care of that issue, remember? They now have to do busywork for their benefits, so they’re actually part of the employed poor, you just don’t need to give them minimum wage.
The illegal immigrant poor? Now we’re talking. All of America’s problems are due to Spanish speakers coming here to hang out on street corners looking for exploitative people needing sub-minimum-wage labor. And for what? So that they can do our shit work and send something home to feed their kids. And the government definitely pays them TRILLIONS AND TRILLIONS, except when they can’t prove their eligibility for government benefits.
Now bankers and the wealthy. They’re the real contributors to society. Why, if it weren’t for wealthy people, how would our society be creating all those jobs (in China). Who would be paying the taxes (when they can’t hire a scam accountant to set them up with a Caribbean address) that we all need to keep our military going? And if we can’t keep our military going, how are we going to afford oil? Who would be doing the innovation (other than the national labs and the universities that the wealthy treat as their R&D arms)?
I give up, High. You’re right.
No Mitch, I give up, you are right.
I take it all back and will support the homeless however I can.
BTW, is a homeless blogger really that bad off?
Is the library their only digital connection?
Why not sleep/eat/poop in the library?
H.F.,
So, comparing decades to a one time “financial sector/protectionists scheme”, which, btw, 250 billion is not even a quart of oil in a semi-tractor trailer crank case, sts.
Further, uncontrolled immigration is allowing people to move into a country (expanding THE NEED for employment) while Jobs (The Employment available) are being exported outside of the boundaries of that country for which uncontrolled immigration is being allowed to emigrate to; AND, those jobs are being liquidated in exchange for “profit margins” that the greedy higher-up corporate officials use to justify their lifestyles – albeit, what percentage of their profits were attained illegitimately, through deceits, frauds, manipulations, conspiracies, extortions, defamations, patent infringements, faulty products, bankruptcy, etc… (again, these types of conducts unbecoming are not examples of capitalism – sorry folks!
Then, the battle for limited resources becomes a concern. Then regulation, more population, more profit, more regulation, more population, more profit. So, out of all the jobs lost thus far do to many reasons, how many re-created jobs are for a lesser wage when compared to the previous position salary base – COLA’s included? This is another form of wealth extraction that in turn, creates more bottom feeders. Partial admonition must be given to former U.S. President Woodrow Wilson – TREASONIST!
It seems to me, that the IMMIGRATION GAME is to import enough people to replace the victims so that there exists and endless cycle of “bottom feeders” for the uber control freaks to play their political/wealth games with because we all know how the less wealth one has, the less opportunity to afford your day in court. Afterall, the “take mentality” goes much easier when no legal challenge is economically feasible – ie. extraction of wealth through subsidizing the lack of self-responsibility by others or by simply creating a larger pool of “the needy” which creates re-subsidization for a lower economic class of peoples which, in turn, increases the amounts of people considered as “needy”. Such a circular illogical reasoning is sure to doom this country – the writing is on the wall folks.
The argument about immigration being about bringing the best of the best over here is false. Yes, some immigrants are bright, but too mnay rely on the government for way too much because “that is the political atmosphere they were “entrained in” – being a product of one’s environment, sts. This is just another example of how elected officials play people against each other. Diversity is great, but clashing of cultures and social issues based on different entrained political ideologies from other countries is a huge concern imo.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Lt. Harpham said, “The city bent over backwards to allow this.”
My Response = Yes, the city violated their own municipal code because of compassion? For camping? What about merely standing? Or, sitting? Let us see here, the city admits that homeless have really no place to go so they allow them to camp, in violation of a code, but then decide that they were wrong for violating the code and are open to “equal protection suits” for other codes that city officials circumvented for the benefit of one over another. Folks in Humboldt County better wake-up, and fast.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
C.D. 12:44,
Librarians everywhere are rejoicing at your suggestion.
I still don’t understand how disadvantaged people are blamed for government inefficiency. Its not their fault our government has opted to help them. This is the problem we face with every good intentioned program in our society. Good ideas improving the way our bureaucracy functions are hard to find when everyone focuses the blame on the people who really have nothing to do with it.
It is good to understand finances because when liabilities exceed revenues, what can you buy without your own personal indebtor printing press (ie, The Fed!). With wars, bailouts for the frauds and irresponsible people signing contracts they can’t fulfill, it is no wonder as to why local jurisdictions don’t have any “legitimate” tax dollars.
…….and to think that prior to all this economic chaos, homeless people could not have signed “contractual agreements” that, in cumulative entirety, exacerbated and/or created the “political bailout needs”. So, in effect, portions of the non-homeless society created a worse state of being for the homeless AND THEMSELVES while also increasing the homeless population base.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Would someone please tell Verbena to get her hands out of my pockets?
It’s very upsetting for old people who have to come to a parking lot that the City has allowed campers to hang out in. They were intimidated. I am glad they are gone. It is sad they don’t have a place to be, but that isn’t it.
Social Darwinism.
Like someone else said, even if all the unsheltered were even capable of holding down a 9 to 5, how many LIVING WAGE jobs are actually out there for them to take?
So we’re supposed to vilify Verbana for sticking up for the less fortunate? I know her. I love her. Yes, maybe her behavior isn’t the most effective sometimes. But who among us is perfect?
I believe she acts with honest compassion from a real understanding of the plight of the poor.
Really, the callousness of some of the previous comments is amazing to me – so much so I’m tempted to think they must all be sarcasm.
To my way of thinking, the attitude you’ve taken is downright immoral and, in fact, as abhorant as any other sort of thinking that’s led to massive atrocities in the past. Where’s your empathy?
Can you really say without any twinge to your conscience that ALL of these people are deliberate slackers with one goal only: to suck your hard won prosperity from you by being pitiful?
ALL of them?
Bigot.
It’s like your daddy beat you senseless until you decided it was you against the world and to hell with anyone other than yourself. Is that it?
Do you realize you have more in common with the skankiest street person than the very few who hold the majority of the wealth (and power) in the world? Do you realize it is their wet dream that we underlings should fight amongst ourselves?
Learn to colaborate with your neighbor.
I promise you’ll be way happier than you are now in your bitterness.
Who knows when the mighty few will make a move that leaves you unsheltered and in need of help…
I think Eldridge Cleaver said it best, You are either part of the solution, or you are part of the problem. Here-Here Betty Chin, and not so here-ie for this person that has the star behind her name…
RTorque, well and truly ranted. Thank you.
The problem with the freeloader nowadays is it has turned into a lifestyle complete
with attendants whose profession is to be an enabler to maintain their job security.
Mixed in are those misguided well meaning naive do gooding volunteers. The end
result is a sub-class of person that thinks they are entitled to be taken care of by the by hard working tax paying citizen. What is frightening is that it is a growing
population because of welfare and the social services. It is a population that thinks they are entitled to be taken care of. The end result is that they stay on the bottom of society
and don’t rise above the low state the are in. The people they hurt along the way are the
people that can’t afford to be somewhere else, say a town that isn’t over-run with
homeless and welfare trash.
I thought Rodney king asked it best
There is a lot of compassion out there for the less sheltered and for those who have just given it up.
We’re not going to get there by confrontation, we’re going to get there though understanding.
Kim is passionate and committed but she seeks a fist fight and opportunities to widen the divide. Betty Chinn is passionate and committed she seeks food and shelter.
I admire Kim’s fire. But I question whether it inflames or warms.
Your call H and RT.
Betty Chin is an enabler. Unwittingly maybe-but an enabler.
That counts for something
It is the true genius of the current American system that people at or near the bottom of the ladder think the rich are their friends and the poor are their enemies.
You know how the poor are different than you? They have less money.
If you are in your twenties or thirties, you’d better learn some compassion for the poor, unless you plan on leaving the United States. The “service economy” isn’t going to have enough jobs, no matter how many fingernail-care-experts and massage therapists the wealthy can hire. You’ve been sold out. Turn off the TV and read some history.
Hmm, surprise, surprise, the Cult of Verbena strikes again. Does anyone really take this woman seriously anymore? The saddest thing is all the homeless folks who believe in her. They are simply being set up for failure and disappointment. It was the same story at the People’s Project homeless encampment in Arcata a couple of years ago. I’m all for resistance and taking action, but let’s take coordinated action with a plan behind it. Otherwise, it’s just the Cult of Verbena and sidekicks wasting time in court and getting media attention while nothing really changes much concerning the plight of the people she is supposedly trying to help. I appreciate her concern, but she is misguided and not a good leader, plain and simple. The thing is, if there was a better leader then Verbena would be pushed aside. Kind of gives you a sense of the characters in activist type movements at the moment.
Tim,
I can only suggest that life is at least a two-way street. I will agree that there exists a certain percentage of those who are homeless and have no desire to work if they could; but, to extrapolate the actual figures, or at least something close to the actual figures, seems to be impossible.
A problem I have is the misguided blame. For one, how many people can live their life in absolute boredom? I know I go crazy doing nothing; and, if I had to eat pizza everyday, just like wondering endlessly everyday, that would probably become pretty mundane and boring too. Anyhow, those who can work and provide for themself, should work and pay for their own way in life; otherwise, unfortunate dispositions fall on deaf ears. If people are old enough to have a child, then they are old enough to not be a burden on people through lack of self-responsibility too, but, we both know better.
Now, we must also keep in mind that the homeless population is not just a single, monolithic percentage of people consistent throughout society each and everyday. The real truth is that elected officials play the people and create the economic imbalances which have everything to do with whether a citizen can get a job and keep it or not. The real truth is that last year, so many people had jobs; and, this year, of those same people, a certain percentage are now homeless. Did all these folks become homeless because of “free loading”? I don’t really think so. Do you see how you just lumped a bunch of people in with others for whom you may be prejudiced toward?
Homelessness overall is purely a sociopolitical game at this stage in time in America – follow your tax dollars and try to justify the appropriations and allocations that these public monies were expended for, for this is key to homelessness in America.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Which political party gave America’s corporations a free hand in de-industrializing our nation? It’s a trick question! Both the Republicans and the Democrats did it. They both sold us into penury. So what do we do in response? We vote for them again and again.
Shut up 5th dst. The more you talk(blog) the less you say. Why don’t you give Star and a few up her mates a room in your house? Try seeing how groovy she is first hand.
12:50 asks the question that should be really dealt with. And it’s all happening so inexorably, at such a high level, that we just squat under the bushes (especially for those horrible 8 bush years) and scream at each other about other things. Time to press ALL our reps to plan and implement a way back into our own manufacturing, perhaps by doing as Gore had suggested — using taxes to create incentives to keep jobs onshore, and strong disincentives for offshoring them. This is killing our country, from the family bank account on up.
All of this discussion raised some questions im my mind. Please bear with me.
1. Is it a municipalities responsibility to shelter the homeless?
2. If so, is it accross the board assistance or should homeless families, women and children get priority over single males?
3. How much of a cities budget should go to this endeavor.
4. Should there be eligibility criteria such as drug and alcohol screening? Should criminal records be a disqualifier?
5. Should the assistance be limited in duration or open ended indefinitely?
And in this specific case- is Verbena aiding the homeless by disobeying a lawful order or is she indeed creating more resentment of the homeless by the general public by this claim of entitlement?
I’ll take a stab at it:
“1. Is it a municipalities responsibility to shelter the homeless?” Fuck no.
Or more accurately, Yes.
We already are and that is what pisses off the ones who consider it enabling.
I have been around the world and Humboldt takes the cake.
It is very simple: we built it and they came.
The solution?
Random Death Lottery for ALL.
It’s the county that gets the authority and the funding for social services. Not the cities. Eureka is more liberal with its assistance (like by funding the Mac) than most cities, which is why the advocates press them for more. They’re more accessible and open than the county. Plus its the EPD that has to deal with the problems they cause on the street, not the county. So the city becomes the face of their problems. But they don’t have the resources or the programs to help solve the problem. So it’s a set-up for mutual frustration.
Where is Kim Starr – Verbena- from? All these freeloaders should be sent back
to their place of origin. Why does anyone think we owe these bums anything.
Why is Eureka expected to put up with all this human trash? Other towns aside
from Arcata-land of loonies-would not stand for this kind of abuse of their town.
Look, Ms Starr is what we call a trustafarian, ie, she has money and more money. I think she would be a better advocate for the homeless if she would just put her own money where her mouth is and provide a space for the truly needy and homeless. I often wonder, what is it with these wannabe homeless? There are truly needy people here, and she shines a very bad light on them, unlike the Starr-light she could potentially use.
Verbena was found innocent today. The actions of the city government were illegal.
People have the right to camp *somewhere* that is the point that Verbena is making.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Well there you go!
Thanks HighBoldtage,
I appreciate the update and the point you explained.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Let’s all go to Bill’s house & Verbena’s house & “camp out”.
Let’s use & abuse, defecate in their bushes, ruin the quality of their lives & see how they like the tables turned on them.
The fact that she didn’t get convicted doesn’t mean the arrest was “illegal.” It means the D.A. didn’t prove their case.
High Finance,
1)
They weren’t camping at someone’s house they were camping on public property.
2) Cities all over the world have public toilets for sanitation it is time for Eureka to catch up with the 21st century.
Whose life quality was ruined by a half a dozen poor people sleeping on asphalt? Yours?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Questions for anyone who would know:
During the emergency shelter’s existence, did anyone defecate in the bushes near the Eureka City Hall, as High Finance appears to be suggesting they did?
I see what looks like two office buildings and one residence on L Street by the parking lot. The shelter was only open after business hours. Were the businesses affected? How? Did they complain? Was the residence affected? Did its occupants complain?
Yes, Mitch, they did. Read the newspaper articles on it.
5:35 That is an outright lie. There was a heavy police presence there, anyone shitting in the bushes would have been arrested on the spot.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Anonymous,
Which newspaper?
Here’s what a search of the TS on “city hall shelter” turns up. Three articles, as follows:
Donna Tam, TS, 12/08 no reference to defecation
Donna Tam, TS, 11/28 no reference to defecation
Donna Tam, TS, 11/17: ”We haven’t had any problems with them at all, and we’re certainly not going to provoke any problems with them,” Eureka Police Department Chief Garr Nielsen said.
Mitch,
“The action –which resulted in one arrest — came after city employees and neighboring businesses complained about people obstructing business, and using the bushes and City Hall alcoves as public bathrooms.”
http://www.times-standard.com/ci_13950132?source=most_viewed
but I submit this is just a fantasy made up by people who hate the poor. No one was arrested or cited for public defecation despite constant police surveillance.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
highboldtage,
Are you surprised? That “Anonymous” lied?
No it doesn’t surprise me at all.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Assuming “Anonymous” has a place to rest his or her head, this is just more proof that the housed are liars.
Hello Mitch,
I think it is more a case of it is easier to lie when you are posting anonymously. Honesty or the lack of it is a human quality that is present or lacking in both the humble and the rich.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
OK, highboldtage. Far more generous of you than the people who are convinced the homeless are subhuman. Thanks.
Mitch,
I am trying to reach the people who are of open mind. The 20 per cent among us who believe just about anything they are told are beyond reach of any kind of reason.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Here we go again with the homeless-houseless-disadvantaged- or my very favorite, lazy good for nothing bums. I don’t care if they’re hungry, cold, wet, & without! Clean yourself up, get off the drugs, & get yourself a job! Or not and starve, my life will not skip a beat one way or the other!
So “Living in Eureka”, how do you feel about mentally ill people who hear voices and are totally unable to comprehend reality and thus live on the street?
Let me guess….you don’t give a shit.
The Henchman’s excess wordiness has motivated me not only to avoid reading his posts, but also to be more brief in my own communications. Thanks, Hench!
Verbena Starr seems to be a decent person. A little naive perhaps, but well-meaning….I think. Not too long ago she was working for another cause about some convicted prisoners down south who were really innocent. In other words she’s fighting for truth and justice as she sees it. She is an unabashed revolutionary and I hope she eventually finds a degree of success in whatever cause she gravitates to.
hey there “living in eureka”, I must assume that the living you refer to is strictly a bodily function insofar as your soul seems to have atrophied prior to dying.
The state of souless disdain you describe sounds bleak and sad.
my condolences to your internal void.
We have many programs out there for people that need a helping hand up. But that does not mean that society has an obligation to spoon feed these people through life. Bottom line, people also have a obligation to themselves and to contribute to society.
May I suggest just a few ways to get a life. If you can’t feed yourself – STOP BREEDING! If you do not have job skills – GET AN EDUCATION! If you can’t get up in the morning to get to your job because of addiction – GET INTO A REHAB PROGRAM! If you have a mental disorder – TAKE YOUR MEDICATION! And if you don’t want to do anything that was suggested, that is your right. But it is also my right to say if you don’t care about your needs, good luck with that because I’m not going to take care of you either!
Jobs – those who were trained for jobs growing up in the “old” educational system are unprepaired for a government that changes the rules and programs on those former educated children-turned-adults; rules like simple dictionary terms (ie. N/A).
So, when it comes to future jobs being SOLD to gullible young minds, children are ONLY used as political tools in defending government decisions and programs to design society; then, when those children are adults, elected officials throw many of them under the bus, sts. I get it now.
Breeding – We are in agreement here. If a person is old enough to have a baby, then that person is old enough to not be a burden upon others (less rape).
Caring for needs – I would agree that people must care for their own needs, but there exists certain situations where this may be hard to do (health?), especially when a simple shower, a little food and warmth in a “public facility” for people down on their luck could help one attain their needs on their own much more efficiently, not to mention regaining some sanity and dignity. If people who are homeless don’t want to do “their part”, then their situation does fall on more deaf ears (this is just the way it is).
Here is an example of community attitudes – Walk into a local bank about 1 week apart. On Monday the 1st, you go in to the bank dressed in blue jeans (semi-stained), a dirty or stained “t-shirt”, some work boots or tennis shoes that are dirty, maybe your hair is unkept a bit, etc…..
1 week later – Walk into the same bank on Monday the 8th with slacks, a dress shirt, stylin shoes, a buzzed head, smelling pretty with perfumes and colognes, etc…get my wiff?
As someone who works hard and dirties their fingers, I can only say “take notice of the difference in attitudes exhibited by so many people striving to be upper-class”, I have. The facial expressions on those in the banking industry are perpetually of eternal memory when you get to experience their reactions toward a customer whom they thought was something other than what that customer really is – priceless.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Mitch, Bill –
From the article (referenced by Mitch) 12-8-09, that Bill QUOTES – BUT, since it doesn’t agree with him, he dismisses as “fantasy”:
“The action –which resulted in one arrest — came after city employees and neighboring businesses complained about people obstructing business, and using the bushes and City Hall alcoves as public bathrooms.”
Hmm, using bushes and City Hal alcoves as public bathrooms pretty much includes urinating and defecating.
I’ll take that apology for calling me a liar, Mitch and Bill.
“Donna Tam, TS, 12/08 no reference to defecation”
Umm, wrong, Mitch.
So, I guess next time Mitch or Bill say something, then back them up with evidence, we can all just call them liars and dismiss the evidence as fantasy.
Living in Eureka,
Believe it or not, I think I understand the frustration behind your point of view. Apologies in advance for the length of this screed.
I think you misunderstand the problem. I doubt you’ve ever had contact with the system our society provides for poor people, and I can only suggest you thank your lucky stars.
A few points.
First, there are always going to be people who are unable to help themselves, either because they are physically unable or mentally unable. A well-functioning society is able to help these people into roles where they are participating and making a contribution.
It will, for example, HONOR the contribution that someone makes by picking up litter or “watching a street,” and it will then insist that those who can do no more do what they can to the best of their ability. It may COST the society more to assist those people in making their contribution, but the society as a whole recognizes that an important part of being human is feeling needed, so it is willing to pay that cost.
Our society has made it clear that work, per se, is not valued. Our honor goes to money. Those who are able to make more of it for their employers are paid truly ridiculous amounts; those who do equally important work that makes no one money are begrudged even the minimum wage.
If there are exceptions to this rule, they exist only as the vestiges of guilds: the professions, like doctor and lawyer, and unionized jobs. You have to have a relatively high analytic ability to get into a job like doctor or lawyer. In our society, unions have been under attack by the wealthy since the day they started. Perhaps you’ve bought the propaganda that unions exist to allow lazy people to slack off — read some history. Of course unions let lazy people slack off: everything lets lazy people slack off. I’ve worked in union jobs and non-union jobs. The big difference is, if you’re in a union job, your boss probably can’t fire you because he doesn’t happen to like you. Both union and non-union jobs have lazy people filling slots; in non-union jobs, the lazy people are just fine as long as they keep their immediate supervisor happy, whether with jokes, cash, or political beliefs.
From a libertarian perspective (and I’m confident you are libertarian, and young), people are entitled to make what the market will bear. This may be true in some nonexistent society where everyone starts out equal; a moment’s thought will show you that all the crap you read about the invisible hand of the market is complete BS in any society that starts out with even the smallest amount of inequality. At the extreme, if 1% of the population has 99% of the disposable income, that invisible hand is going to care more about fingernail-care for the 1% than about farming for the 99%
A functional society will offer full employment. Ours does not. Have you traveled outside the United States? In just about every other first world country, there is far less poverty, the work is shared out more equally, there is less crime, and the per capita prison population is lower.
Yes, people bear some responsibility for their condition. But isn’t it curious that in all those European welfare states, there seem to be far fewer “parasites” and “criminals?”
If you’ve spent your young years addled by drugs, it is incredibly hard to “get an education.” Some succeed, most fail, and not because they are “parasites.” They fail because it is painfully easy to fall off the ladder. You need to study for an exam, but you’re also working full time at minimum wage, and perhaps bringing up an infant to boot. (You shouldn’t have had the infant? OK. But you did. Now what?) You want to make it to class, but your car breaks down, or you have to choose between bus fare and something like eating.
OK, you shouldn’t have spent your young years addling your brain. But you did, and you exist. What now?
If you are receiving any sort of government assistance, you already think of yourself as a failure, and that sort of attitude doesn’t help.
If you are without a place to safely sleep, you are not going to be at your best.
You’re not going to get job interviews if your clothes are filthy.
If you are mentally ill, you CAN’T just “take your medication.” Isn’t that obvious? That’s precisely your problem. Once upon a time, the mentally ill were placed in institutions where meds could be monitored. The propaganda you’ll hear is that the “dread liberals” insisted those institutions be shut down. No. The liberals insisted that those institutions needed to have humane conditions. But to provide humane conditions in those institutions — for that matter, even to run them under inhumane conditions — cost too much for our society, oriented as it is to those already on top. The result is that there are all sorts of mentally ill people who would be able to stick to medication schedules with some external support, but they are running around without that support. Those folks are a bonus to the right, because they contribute to the folk wisdom that the homeless and unemployed are different than you and I.
This exact same dynamic is visible today, where the Governor wants to shut down programs like In Home Supportive Services. This won’t save the state a bit of money, because people who can currently live in their homes with a bit of support are going to need to be institutionalized. But it will probably happen, because, even though IHSS is undeniably cost-effective, there’s a chance that some poor people are gaming the system to get an “undeserved” thousand bucks a year. Compare that with the $250 billion to a set of bankers and bank employees probably numbering fewer than 50,000, which is how I originally got mired in this thread.
To sum up, “Living in Eureka,” I’d suggest you check things out for yourself, rather than listen to the pundits that help you to feel comfortable in your opinions. Maybe visit that woman someone here called an “enabler,” Betty Chinn. She’ll love you, because she loves everyone. It would make you happier.
So, if in fact it has been held that Kim and her lice-infested troupe can legally “camp out” on public property, do you really think that they’re going to stop there? Small victory and not their end game. Taking over your private property is next. You are the enemy to them. They have no morals and no shame.
To Anon at 9:57
My evidence that homeless people were shitting in the alcoves at city hall is that no one was arrested or cited for any act of defecation during this whole ordeal, despite the heavy presence of the police and constant surveillance.
Maybe you should ask the T-S reporter what her source was for this fantasy.
Logic and clear thinking will trump prejudice and hate every time.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
No apology, 9:57. Public bathroom is not “defecation.”
Living in Eureka,
A sleeping bag on a cold piece of asphalt does not constitute being “spoon – fed.”
You call yourself “living” but really you are spiritually “dead.”
have a peaceful day,
Bill
Anyone remember the drunk driving 4 wheeler who decided to 4 x 4 on the Arcata Plaza about 2 years ago +/-? It was a homeless person who notified police personnel. Truth.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Can you see the difference in outrage level between these two statements:
“[alleged to have been] using the bushes and City Hall alcoves as public bathrooms.”
and
“People were defecating in the City Hall alcoves.”
Can you see the difference in evidence level required for the two statements?
Can you see the difference in likely police response?
Complaint fantasies CAN be protected by government officials when they choreograph rules that disallow the accused to KNOW who their accusers are; and, what connections the accussers have with the same government officials that are inclusionary in hiding away public information given to them from public informant types.
If you have a gripe, stand-up and be noticed because there is no real need for secrecies.
Jeffrey Lytle
McKinleyville – 5th District
Living In Eureka-
I have quoted you below to show everyone how morally bankrupt your spiel is.
First of all you say “Stop breeding.” Since you are obviously a right wing nut, I bet you are also against birth control and abortion. Tell the truth.
Secondly, you say “Get an Education.” Since you are obviously a right wing nut, you have probably worked tirelessly to destroy what was once one of the best free educational systems in the world here in California, now it is 48th or 49th in the US, worse than many of the deep south states.
Thirdly, you say “Get into a rehab.” There is no drug detox center here in Eureka. All the money that is given to the city for this kind of thing has been diverted by Tyson and Hamblin into religious “clean and sober” houses that have coincidentally impacted the West Side. So there is no “rehab” to go to.
Finally, you say “Take your medication.” You must realize that often when you see a homeless person sitting on the curb, the majority of them ARE taking their “medication.” The “medication” of choice these days that is foisted upon anyone who is poor and in trouble is Seroquel, which is a sedative so strong that all you can do is sit in one place. It renders you incapable of working at all. Not to mention that the death rate for Seroquel is twice the rate of people not taking it. This is the solution (death) offered up by our county Mental Health.
You need to be more honest. Of course that would take a little more courage as well, wouldn’t it?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
“May I suggest just a few ways to get a life. If you can’t feed yourself – STOP BREEDING! If you do not have job skills – GET AN EDUCATION! If you can’t get up in the morning to get to your job because of addiction – GET INTO A REHAB PROGRAM! If you have a mental disorder – TAKE YOUR MEDICATION! And if you don’t want to do anything that was suggested, that is your right. But it is also my right to say if you don’t care about your needs, good luck with that because I’m not going to take care of you either!”
I have not been following this but it is easy to see people are assholes and are trying to discredit this lady by making allegations and calling names!
Get em Bill!, Thanks for schooling us about Seroquel,that shit sound awful
Hey Bill,
on another topic, I notice how your name and others are in blue – how do you do that to link to your wordpress. account?
Thanks,
JL
Fill in the “website” field when you leave a comment.
Or, sign into wordpress if you have an account before you leave a comment.
highboldtage at 11:10 taught me something new. It had never occurred to me that people “just sitting around on the street” might be on high-power sedatives. Dumb, in retrospect.
Vets taking PTSD drugs die in sleep
Hurricane man’s death the 4th in West Virginia
By Julie Robinson
Staff writer
A Putnam County veteran who was taking medication prescribed for post-traumatic stress disorder died in his sleep earlier this month, in circumstances similar to the deaths of three other area veterans earlier this year.
Derek Johnson, 22, of Hurricane, served in the infantry in the Middle East in 2005, where he was wounded in combat and diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder while hospitalized.
Military doctors prescribed Paxil, Klonopin and Seroquel for Johnson, the same combination taken by veterans Andrew White, 23, of Cross Lanes; Eric Layne, 29, of Kanawha City; and Nicholas Endicott of Logan County. All were in apparently good physical health when they died in their sleep.
Johnson was taking Klonopin and Seroquel, as prescribed, at the time of his death, said his grandmother, Georgeann Underwood of Hurricane. Both drugs are frequently used in combination to treat post-traumatic stress disorder. Klonopin causes excessive drowsiness in some patients.
more: http://urlet.com/notorious.heartily
A new study published in the October 19, 2005, edition of the Journal of the American Medical Association found that Zyprexa, Risperdal, Seroquel and Abilify, drugs used to treat schizophrenia, may raise the death rates in elderly patients treated with the drugs for dementia. These drugs are produced by some of the biggest drug companies in the world, including Eli Lilly and Company (Zyprexa), Janssen Pharmaceutical (Risperdal), AstraZeneca Pharmaceuticals (Seroquel), and Bristol-Myers Squibb and Otsuka America Pharmaceuticals (Abilify).
An analysis of 15 separate drug studies and more than 5,000 patients found that 3.5% of those getting these drugs for eight to twelve weeks died, compared with 2.3% of patients on placebos. The findings come on the heels of risks first disclosed by the FDA in April concerning these drugs.
http://www.productsthathurt.com/seroquel-news.php
Thank You Heraldo,
Your help is appreciated.
JL
Glad to be of service.
omg,
So using the alcoves as a public bathroom is NOT defecating? LMAO.
So what were they doing? Taking showers? Shaving? Putting on makeup?
No, they were peeing and pooping.
Your ignorance in this, in trying to deny it occurred, in playing wordgames to try and wriggle out of the fact that people were complaining because it happened is much better than an apology; it shows that reasoning with people like Mitch and Bill is impossible.
The article in the newspaper said that “people were complaining” it nowhere stated that this activity actually happened. If it had actually happened then someone would have been arrested for it.
So who complained? Some one anonymous like the posters on this blog?
have a peaceful day,
Bil
If you were going to take a dump in the alcove (or wherever) you would probably do it in a moment of privacy.
Or go down the street to the Shell station. The point is there were always police and surveillance at city hall. There was no chance someone would duck into an alcove and take a dump. This is the same kind of bullshit as the “crapping into a mail slot” story that was passed around for the last couple of years.
I will ask the reporter on Monday who gave her this story. My guess is that she heard this fantasy from our city manager. What do you think?
have a peaceful day,
Bill
No doubt there are pictures if it’s true.
Maybe there are pictures. I guess anything is possible you are right about that Heraldo.
I am talking logic and probabilities, not extreme cases. No one logically will urinate in a place where they are sure to get arrested. That is my point. It is a made up story.
have a peaceful day,
Bill
There are several places around city hall for someone to urinate and poop. It
happens to business’s in old town and down town all the time. It isn’t like these
homeless care or have much modesty. I live in Eureka and my number one complaint about all of this is these freeloading troublemakers are not from here.
Why don’t all you caring souls in Ferndale, Hydesville, McKinleyville, Trinidad and
Loleta take these homeless in to your town or better yet into your homes. Just think of the cultural interaction you can have with these people from other states
and lifestyles. We in Eureka are being discriminated against by being overloaded
with transients and Psychos and druggies from out of town. All you hypocrites
should be ashamed of yourselves for not practicing what you preach.
def·e·cate (df-kt)
v. def·e·cat·ed, def·e·cat·ing, def·e·cates
v.intr.
To void feces from the bowels.
They had to intall motion sensitive water sprayers at the water company on 7th and J because of people defecating in the bushes there, sleeping, leaving clothing and needles. etc.
City Hall’s parking lot is at 5th and L.
Anyone who has access to a porta-potty and chooses to defecate in the bushes instead should be off the streets for any number of reasons. That’s not the issue here, although it’s the issue you want to talk about.
Okay, let’s only talk about what you want to talk about.
“because of people defecating in the bushes there, sleeping, leaving clothing and needles. etc.”
It would be helpful to split these out and find out which were confirmed with physical evidence. Sleeping in the bushes is not the same thing as defecating in the bushes. Leaving clothing in the bushes is not the same thing as leaving “needles, etc.” in the bushes.
Sleeping and leaving clothing are disturbing to people’s sensibilities. Defecating and leaving needles are both dangerous. To mix them up is not helpful.
I don’t doubt that some people who are homeless are also mentally ill. I don’t doubt that some people who are mentally ill do things that are disturbing. The things they do are also disturbing to people who are homeless but not mentally ill, just like they’re disturbing to people who live in homes. The difference is, people who are homeless have no place to go to get away from the disturbing things, and get blamed for them, even though almost all of them are blameless.
If someone defecates in bushes, that’s not a reason to take away other people’s shelter. It’s a reason to take someone off the streets, ideally to a place set up to handle mental illness.
If someone sleeps in bushes, that’s a very different problem. What they need is shelter.
It is another case of a few ruining it for others.
It would be helpful to split these out and find out which were confirmed with physical evidence. Sleeping in the bushes is not the same thing as defecating in the bushes. Leaving clothing in the bushes is not the same thing as leaving “needles, etc.” in the bushes.
the times i have seen them, you have a sleeping person, feces, some clothes, needles, and other stuff. i don’t know who left what, but it’s all there.
If the city of Arcata would just provide short shovels then the homeless could at least bury their poop in the Plaza. Alcoves be saved!
Maybe Arcata could provide burn barrels too.